EPTImo. nobody claim. just scumhunt.
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII - Page 2
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
Imo. nobody claim. just scumhunt. | ||
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
now, im watching day9. after him, im going to show you all how fucking retarded you are. | ||
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
On June 25 2013 02:53 hzflank wrote: I've been waiting for particular posts from Aquanim and Chromatically, which they have now made. That's a pretty flimsy case that Chrom has made against me. There is no reason to think that I would make a casual opening post when by the time I joined the game there were already five other casual opening posts. I think the game strategy stuff (regarding NN) was as good a discussion as any as it is actually important to the game. Up until this point I have in no way cared as to whether or not I look scummy, and since I got my scum read from Aquanim's first post it made sense for me to wait until there was a case made against someone before I posted this. It's about time that the scum try to get a wagon rolling and I am happy enough for that wagon to be on me, so I will even help scum Chromatically by ensuring that scum Aquanim also votes for me. Here is my take on the important parts of day 1 so far: Hurricane is the first to discuss the NN claiming. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. I wont go into my game theory here but can do in another post if people request, however I absolutely believe that the NN declaring is something that the scum would want. There were several people that disagreed with NN claiming, but importantly no one declared Hurricane to be especially scummy for making the post. Aquanim then makes a first post that is clever scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote: You wound me. Regarding claims I'm of the opinion that the Nosy Neighbour/Alpha 5 should claim now. This role is similar to a Miller in that it isn't useful for town at all, and could seriously backfire if they are watched/tracked/whatever by a townie. I don't see any downside to a Nosy Neighbour claiming, the worst case is that they play obvtown, get shot, and draw a shot away from actual town power roles. The biggest reason a Nosy Neighbour should claim now is that it eliminates the possibility of a scum fake-claiming it later if he is caught shooting/using a PR on someone. If we establish that a Nosy Neighbour should claim now, anyone claiming it later is caught scum. Obviously, scum can claim Nosy Neighbour so whoever claims it isn't confirmed town by any means. No other power roles should claim, that would be daft. (However, scum should feel free to claim their roles.) Regarding scum Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons. 1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me. Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous. 2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own. ##Vote: Chromatically Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try. Aqua's scumbuddy, Chromatically, has already said that the NN claiming is a bad idea. Aqua sees a chance to make a good play here and throws a weak vote on Chromatically. It is still early in the day and there is little chance of a wagon forming. Aqua never intends to leave his vote on Chromatically, but is just creating some distance from him so that it wont look suspicious if Chromatically should change his mind about the NN claim. Ofcourse there is the added bonus that if Chromatically should later flip scum then Aqua can refer to his very first post and claim to be confirmed town. Next, FirmTofu defends my weak read on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 13:34 FirmTofu wrote: You are taking an extremely simplified approach to analyze my actions. I am not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. I am stating my opinions on how various people are behaving. If you can't distinguish between the two, we have a serious problem here. You can't say that my "defenses" are out of place without even looking at the context of the situation. Read my quote, see if it makes sense to you, and form an opinion based on that. Furthermore, this post is as scummy as scummy gets. You state that you can side with me as I pursue a lynch on Spicy(see 1), but you also consider me to be the scummiest player(see 2). How are these two chain of thoughts compatible? By this point I suspect that either Aqua or Chromatically might put their vote on me, but I cannot say so prematurely, especially since Aqua still has his vote on Chrom. After a little consideration I decide to lurk for a while, as I wanted Chrom to make a post of some sort before I made this claim. Next we have: So right after Aqua realised my above mistake with Firm, he asks Firm for his read on Chrom (who aqua still has his vote on). He is either looking for Firm to give him a good reason to think Chrom is town, or he is looking for Firm to give a scum read on me, or both. Either way, Firm is the most likely town to get onto my wagon at this point, so it is good setup. Here we have Aqua ask Firm again for their opinion on his case on Chromatically. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote: First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe. Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on: 1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it. 2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these. The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot. Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him. I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly. The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though. My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please. Remember that this was the case that Aqua put forth in his very first post of the game. It was not a strong case and he knew it would never stand, so it was a good way to both give people a town read on his scumbuddy and also create some distance within the scum team. Firm responds that he thinks Chrom is town, which is exactly what Aqua wanted and why he asked him twice. Aqua has now gotten Firm (the person he thinks he can get to vote for me) to say that the scumbuddy that Aqua has his vote on (Chrom) is town. Well played Aqua. Shorlty after, Aqua posts this + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 17:04 Aquanim wrote: I suppose that's a fair enough position to hold. I've personally found that my reads based on 'feelings' are often more accurate than those where I carefully assemble 'evidence'. This doesn't feel to me like the town Chromatic which I played with in Newbie XXXIII. Asking questions is a town-y kind of thing to do, I agree. However, in my mind it is only significantly town-y when there is an actual plan behind those questions. By comparison, Chromatic was asking pretty generic questions without any real point or follow-up. Asking other people for their reads while having shared none of his own does not sit well with me. Pointing out that some plan or another is stupid before anyone else does is a really cheap way of accumulating town-cred without committing to anything. Someone was going to shoot that plan down either way, so a scum player would have nothing to gain from not shooting it down. All this being said, I think that what he's done so far could plausibly be explained by a town mentality as well as a scum one. If he comes back tomorrow and starts playing a good town-game I'll be looking to lynch somebody else. For the meantime, though, my vote and intention stays. There he gets in that his read on Chrom is based on feelings rather than evidence. He is telling us that there is no good reason to suspect Chrom while he still has his vote on Chrom. He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies. Here Aqua mocks Firm for voting due to inactivity because part of their plan was that Firm would vote for me, and he wants to make sure that Firm will move his vote. + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 19:35 Aquanim wrote: You're being voted because FirmTofu wasn't man enough to put his vote on somebody he thought would talk back. Don't worry about it, just read the thread and let us know who you think is suspicious. I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on what's happened in the game so far sometime in the next few hours. Chromatically gets back online and makes this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 24 2013 20:43 Chromatically wrote: Aqua, are you scum? Both of these things are towntells. Explain to me the scum motivation in getting discussion rolling early day 1, which was OBVIOUSLY the reason that I pressured Spicy (and it worked). Sorry, if you thought that it was "ludicrous", but it doesn't make me scum and you know it. If you wanted to know about someone, you could just asked me. I'm not just going to randomly post reads if I'm not going to push for their lynch, but I'll definitely tell you what I think of someone or who my scumreads are. Why wouldn't you ask me for my scumreads if you wanted them? Probably because that's not actually what you want at all. Someone else asked me for scumreads, and I posted mine right below your post, but you haven't reacted to that at all. Does this point still stand even after I've posted my scumreads? Or did your opinion not change at all for some reason? You also said: Oh, this feels more like the scum Chromatic from XXXI? I am very, very uncomfortable with you, Aqua, because you are usually very town from your first post. This game, you've done a lot of shitting up the thread with stuff about claims and Nns. I take that as: 'Okay Aqua, time to unvote me now because I am going to try to start a wagon on someone else and it would not look as good for you to move your vote directly from me to them'. Surprise surprise, in the very next post Aqua unvotes Chrom, which we all knew would happen after reading Aqua's very first post in this game (where he voted for Chrom). The most important line in this post by Aqua is: 'Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you', because that is him paving the way for Chrom to begin the mis-lynch attempt. And then finally Chrom makes a case against me and votes. Now, it would be easier for me to vote if I had an individual scum read, but since I am fairly confident that both Aqua and Chrom are scum, I am going to vote for Chrom because I think doing so will force Aqua to take a very strong stance one way or the other. Chrom already has his vote on me, so if I vote Aqua then Chrom does not need to make a decision and can just leave his vote where it is. ##Vote: Chromatically everything everybody has said about NN has meant nill to me right now, except for the people asking for him to claim. Because him being alive benefits scum more than town, because even if we know who he is, scum can still claim that it was NN and we wouldnt know different, unless you wanted to tail this guy the entire game, essentially wasting a blue role. im lynching somebody if they claim NN. im sorry, i just am. because it doesnt benefit anything, even if your are NN, thats unfortunate, your dead. its like miller, you can claim it all you want, but on my list scum would claim miller too, so it isnt a defense, its just unfortunate circumstances. On June 24 2013 14:43 LoneMeow wrote: There's this thing called timezones - it's now 07:43 in my current local time... Regarding to claiming, I'd like to ask that nobody claims. Day 1 claiming is generally not a great idea. I'd like to note that largely with the exception of this post, you haven't done much scumhunting yourself. Would you care to elaborate on those small things for me? I do agree about Xzavier feeling scummy though. It first felt like a bit of meta case, as I remember him being very actively townie during day 1 in our last game, but reading through what he's said so far he hasn't really done any hunting so it seems objectively scummy, too. Okay, last game during day1 i went holy fucking shit hard, made a few big blunders, almost got a town lynched over a scum, and that seriously hurt my confidence going into the rest of the game. I dont want to be the center of attention trying to direct town discussion if i cant handle it (as shown last game) It would be much better for me to analyze people, call them bad, and find scum. then to try to be mr. sheriff and totally fuck up the game. Also, posting the list that is located on page 1 is scummy as shit to me, that is useless contribution, because its so much easier to open up page 1 in a new tab to find filters, it literally doesnt benefit anything at all. IF i WAS scum this game, i would try to do exactly what i did last game, because if i made town-bandwagons it would look like last game where i was town, and everybody would just call me a bad townie. On June 25 2013 02:47 Onegu wrote: Ebwop I figured it out Alakaslam is Umasi's cocaine dealer!!! This made me openly laugh. well played sir. On June 25 2013 07:05 LoneMeow wrote: Xzavier, I still don't like your filter. Practically just setup speculation, no scum hunting or reads. I want to lynch you. I'm not all that comfortable with lynching hzflank, in fact I'd rather not. I read him as town-ish. StiMaDDict, start participating in some way. Who's your top scum read, why? fyfy, you say you'd "rather lynch someone scummier", tell me who'd that be? ##Vote: Xzavier The bold is kinda bullshit? it would be one thing if you said "i kinda just want to lynch you because your lurking hardcore and didnt do that last game!" then i woulda been okay with it, but because you didnt it makes me wonder. What scumhunting was their to do when everybody has 1-2 posts that they most probably arnt going to give away anything. seriously, how bad would somebody have to be to fuck up their first post? misread there role pm? I really dont think thats enough to vote somebody, Asking for fyfy who they would rather lynch instead of encouraging the person your voting for also seems strange. its like saying this is a pressure vote, then taking off the pressure. Its like your trying to pressure somebody but you dont want to commit yourself, like your afraid of making too many people upset. That or your trying to pressure like three people at once, which is impossible with only 1 vote. T.T to me you seem like your trying to press as many buttons as possible and hoping to hit something, in essence thats the plan, but you cant do it all at the same time. On June 25 2013 12:36 Aquanim wrote: I'm not interested in lynching any of those three today, if that's what you're asking. I can see the thought process of all three and I can easily see all of it coming from a town mindset, even if I don't agree with a lot of it. My current suspicions lie with Onegu and Xzavier, since they have posted a fair bit but actually said little to nothing of value. This post just moved Aqua to my number 1 scum list. ##VOTE Aquanim uhhh. dude, this is your first post in 12 hours, and all you did was a gree with everybody, and say whats already been said. your filter isnt that impressive and you havnt reacted or responded to pressure. you talked alot when it was about the NN meta, which all iv gleaned from is lynch anybody who claims NN at any point in the game. Because it means that they are scum, if they WERE Noisy neighbor, then they would be okay getting lynched, post all of their biggest cases before they died, become confirmed (and dead) town. We re-read his case. If its strong we lynch who he suspects and win. That would be the best way to play noisy neighbor. Claiming NN to stay alive is pretty pointless, you can say it, but it wont keep you alive. So you pretty much were encouraging a useless may as well be spam topic. you havnt actually done anything pro-town, and are using the heat on me and Onegu as a cover in order to not make a splash and still get a mislynch. sry i wasnt able to go as in depth as i wanted to on alot of posts. I had like 6-7 quotes i wanted to talk about, but my brother just got home an hour earlier than i planned. T.T i WILL actually post more in the morning before i go to class. By the way i work tomorrow so i wont be around for the vote, so my vote will be cast like 8 hours prior to the deadline. :O | ||
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Xzavier
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On June 25 2013 11:05 Chromatically wrote: Most of the Xzavier stuff is really obvious: look at early day 1 and his filter. He spams a lot, posts things that are meaningless, etc. His posts feel loose and casual, but that could easily be an act. Here he actually admits that his other posting has been useless, but then adds yet another useless post talking about how "strong" the town roles are by saying a lot of self-evident stuff. He's posting for the sake of posting. I especially like the part where he says that he'd lynch a claimed parity cop. The other noteworthy post where he literally says nothing. The first sentence is meaningless. He promises more activity later, which I never really like to see, particularly when that activity doesn't occur. Maybe it didn't happen because there was no pressure on him? He ends with a question that doesn't matter because he knows that the deadline is about 2 days away. The exact time doesn't matter at all. I can see a scum Xzav posting this in order to "interact" a little without doing anything. Everything else in his filter is spam. Look at it yourselves. ##Vote: Xzavier Keep in mind, as you read Xzav, that this is not a total noob player. I don't want to rely on meta heavily (at all, really), but at least observe the fact that he does know what he's doing as town. He played a strong town game in XLII, but he is anything but that this game. At the very least, he is certainly experienced enough to know not to lynch a claimed blue. The "noob town" defense doesn't hold water with Xzav because he's clearly capable of being a strong townie. pardon me, but i was lynched my first and only game for having a horrid voting record, started a bandwagon on a townie and almost got him lynched over a scum, call me a strong townie again. please. i was good at projecting myself as town, but i wasnt able to do anything with it, in essence i spammed alot. The few pro-town posts i made were just what i thought were to be obvious. But then the rest of the game i was treated like a noob, and even when i did analysis i was wrong. So i just started sheeping ffere who was a godly JailKeeper. What would be the benefit of projecting myself off as townie like that again, it only really worked because iVloski was playing a troll style game. | ||
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On June 25 2013 12:36 Aquanim wrote: I'm not interested in lynching any of those three today, if that's what you're asking. I can see the thought process of all three and I can easily see all of it coming from a town mindset, even if I don't agree with a lot of it. My current suspicions lie with Onegu and Xzavier, since they have posted a fair bit but actually said little to nothing of value. This post just moved Aqua to my number 1 scum list. ##VOTE Aquanim uhhh. dude, this is your first post in 12 hours, and all you did was a gree with everybody, and say whats already been said. your filter isnt that impressive and you havnt reacted or responded to pressure. you talked alot when it was about the NN meta, which all iv gleaned from is lynch anybody who claims NN at any point in the game. Because it means that they are scum, if they WERE Noisy neighbor, then they would be okay getting lynched, post all of their biggest cases before they died, become confirmed (and dead) town. We re-read his case. If its strong we lynch who he suspects and win. That would be the best way to play noisy neighbor. Claiming NN to stay alive is pretty pointless, you can say it, but it wont keep you alive. So you pretty much were encouraging a useless may as well be spam topic. | ||
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Xzavier
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On June 25 2013 07:05 LoneMeow wrote: Xzavier, I still don't like your filter. Practically just setup speculation, no scum hunting or reads. I want to lynch you. I'm not all that comfortable with lynching hzflank, in fact I'd rather not. I read him as town-ish. StiMaDDict, start participating in some way. Who's your top scum read, why? fyfy, you say you'd "rather lynch someone scummier", tell me who'd that be? ##Vote: Xzavier The bold is kinda bullshit? it would be one thing if you said "i kinda just want to lynch you because your lurking hardcore and didnt do that last game!" then i woulda been okay with it, but because you didnt it makes me wonder. What scumhunting was their to do when everybody has 1-2 posts that they most probably arnt going to give away anything. seriously, how bad would somebody have to be to fuck up their first post? misread there role pm? I really dont think thats enough to vote somebody, Asking for fyfy who they would rather lynch instead of encouraging the person your voting for also seems strange. its like saying this is a pressure vote, then taking off the pressure. Its like your trying to pressure somebody but you dont want to commit yourself, like your afraid of making too many people upset. That or your trying to pressure like three people at once, which is impossible with only 1 vote. T.T to me you seem like your trying to press as many buttons as possible and hoping to hit something, in essence thats the plan, but you cant do it all at the same time. | ||
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Your trying to bring up a point but ignoring the logic that proves it wrong. | ||
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What exactly do you have against me? besides lurking and trying to find an effective meta and OMGISing me in an attempt to stay alive? Your saying that because i havnt started a wagon yet im scum. basically. is that right? Idk why your tunneling me over people who havnt even posted yet (or only have enough flyf not to get modkilled) AND SINCE I DO HAVE THIS ANALYTICAL ABILITY. WHY LYNCH THE PERSON WHO CAN CATCH SCUM!!!!! Lolol. that sure seems like a scummy thing to say to me lol. | ||
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On June 25 2013 13:44 Chromatically wrote: I'm not even talking about meta. The point was just that you are capable of scumhunting. You're not doing it. Why? If you really think that Aqua is scum, put some real reasons up. i was planning to then my brother came home. and compiling a full on case on a phone is impossible. You cant do it without copy and pasten and i will add more before i go to class tomorrow. | ||
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lalalalalala meta I FUCKING GET WHAT YOUR SAYING. But i think what im saying also makes sense. | ||
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On June 25 2013 13:30 Chromatically wrote: Xzav definitely scum. My point about you being strong town was just that you know how to scumread. It doesn't matter if you were wrong before, I saw how you know what scumhunting looks like and how to do it. Are you planning on not scumhunting at all this game because it "didn't work out for you" last game? I sure hope not. Your scumread on Aqua is weakly reasoned. You accuse him of posting nothing and shopping thread sentiment, when you posted nothing and then dropped thread sentiment. If someone could tell me the actual points against Aqua, that would be nice, because he really doesn't look like the best lynch for today. Everyone with their vote not on Xzav should move it there or explain why. He's posted fluff when he's clearly capable of scumhunting, and only now comes in with a bad read on Aqua sheeping thread sentiment. He's being extremely defensive in an unnecessary way after one vote on him. Not to mention how he was clearly active lurking when he responded 5 minutes after my case on him after posting nothing all day. This is silly. Your blaming me for not making a case yet. Mabye i dont hav enough strong evidence to make a case yet? Mabye iv been busy. There are a hundred reasons why. but claiming somebody is scum because i havnt made a case yet is silly. and i dont even know where your coming up with all of my skills. i would have you crying and been reading your body and facial expressions like a book if this were irl mafia. but its forum mafia. so sorry for not being an analytical god my second day of forum mafia. Id like everybody with a vote on me to answer my arguements and come up with a realistc, reasonable and logical reason for lynching me. | ||
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by your own words you hav nothing on me. | ||
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On June 25 2013 14:45 FirmTofu wrote: How is calling everyone retarded useful as town? You are quite the character, sir. It provokes reaction albiet im regretting that decision as i recieved a warning for it, rightfully so. However its useless and counterproductive for scum play. | ||
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On June 25 2013 14:51 hzflank wrote: In my opinion, Alakaslam has posted the single most scummy sentence in this thread. On the whole I do not think Alakaslam is scummy, but I do think the following post aimed at Onegu should be taken notice of. Alakaslam, at the time that you posted that, what gave you such a strong town read on Onegu? Holu fuck how did i miss that. Thats a fucking excuse to not scumhunt at all . If he doesnt provide an adaquate response my vote will go to him. I think its obvious he might knowvsomething we dont. | ||
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On June 25 2013 14:55 FirmTofu wrote: Well, your statement would be valid if you were referring to a singular person. By calling everyone all you do is piss everyone off and make yourself look like an asshole. Might want to keep that in mind for the future. Noted! Now. what do you think about alakazam. | ||
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