Catch 22 Mafia

On June 18 2013 04:54 yamato77 wrote:
Well, I'm in the high-priority group of experienced solo-game mafioso, so I don't have much to worry about.

On June 21 2013 18:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, thoughts on yamato, hapa and DP.

go!

On June 21 2013 18:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you buy yamato's explanation on his "reads"?

On June 21 2013 18:41 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv,
how do you get the conclusion that yamato is over-confident from him saying he has no clue who is SCUM and only who is town?



Also why is shiao pi scum?

On June 21 2013 18:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So the correct way to play scum apparently is to say "everyone is town" and when you are asked about it they are "all null besides that one guy"? Is this really what you are saying marv?

Do you think yamato is that bad as town and absolutely wouldn't do that as scum? It's kind of an easy way to say "there is nothing to comment on now, i wanna be friends with you all".

On June 21 2013 18:48 Oatsmaster wrote:

No its absolutely bullshit and wrong.

Yamato calling everyone town is solving the game? No.

On June 21 2013 18:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, the bottom line here is that they were not town-reads in the first place. They were null-reads besides OO.
I know yamato is over-confident as town, why can't he mask that play as scum? I understand it might not be the case here but i'm worried about people taking his words at face-value (in case he is actually town).

I want him to explain himself, why would you call someone town who you think is actually null?

I want people to explain why they are taking yamato's bullshit reads at face value when he "corrects" them.

Do you, marv, take everything at face value when someone just says they "made a mistake"? Or is it only yamato?

On June 21 2013 19:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What Oats just said. Marv, can you back up this meta-read on yamato somehow? I'll give you a hint, look at LXI & Red and you'll find out what's different in town!yamato's arrogance compared to scum!yamato. I'll give you another hint, you can't.

yamato is scum.

On June 21 2013 19:18 DarthPunk wrote:


I actually thought about this while i was watching TV and the comment marv made about handing out town reads like candy. That is actually something scum often do because they find it difficult to form scum reads. So it sort of lends credence to the idea that if his process has changed it has become scummier. Also marvs town read on him is based on yamato's personality from what i can tell.

On December 10 2012 16:08 wherebugsgo wrote:


Name someone you find scummy this game.

Can't? Okay. Process of elimination.

On June 21 2013 19:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thats wbg not yamato.

Also that was like ~5 into the game maybe?

On June 21 2013 19:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why can't you marv understand that this is not what yamato is saying. He is sayiong "the whole town is fine besides X and Y" and when asked about it he is saying "actually the whole town is null, including X and Y, besides Z".

I think that's very different what you just said here.

On June 21 2013 19:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv:
I don't get it. ShiaoPi is scum for calling yamato scum, which you describe as "horribly lazy comment".
yamato is town for calling people town and worrysome when they in fact were null for him. How is that not a "horribly lazy comment" in the first place?

Does ShiaoPi do that as scum but not as town? Can you back that up somehow?

There is something that worries me in ShiaoPi's comment about yamato, but i'm not going to reveal it yet. Can anyone see what that is?

ShiaoPi; elaborate your read on yamato please. Anyone else you find scummy here at the moment?

On June 21 2013 18:48 marvellosity wrote:

In what world do mafia make such an obvious [in]consistency within such a short span of time? Certainly not one I play in, do you?

On June 21 2013 21:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The thing with Coag is that i want him to give opinions on someone else than you. It doesn't even matter what alignment you are, this joke thingy with lynching you is bad as shit. Why not actually hunt scum besides calling you scum before you have not even posted?

Do you know how to read OO marv? What do you think of him at the moment? Also you didn't answer Oats' question about Ange. What do you think of her?

On June 21 2013 19:18 marvellosity wrote:
Nothing at all yet.

On June 21 2013 21:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv, how strong a read is shiao pi for you and do you think anyone else is scum?

On June 21 2013 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I actually do think GK's read on Oats is pretty shitty.

On June 21 2013 15:54 goodkarma wrote:

It was the first few hours I was in the game, so as far as I'm concerned it was day one. And it was based off my first post, so he literally is capable of megatunneling off basically nothing... But that's not really my main issue with him. I'm still having trouble understanding how he can so easily forget about you and DP when jumping onto Yamato. Also have you learned your lesson from Axel and Shao last game? Activity =/= towniness. Oats is always pretty active, so that's not particularly indicative of anything.

On June 21 2013 14:38 Oatsmaster wrote:

In other news, yamato is looking awfully scummy for not being able to back up his read

On June 21 2013 23:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Because that is what yamato does (at least in my memory)? Yes, it does not help anyone to determine his alignment right now, but what did you expect, words of wisdom in every post I do on day 1? It's just something to keep in mind.

I am thinking you are blowing this way out of proportion

On June 22 2013 00:10 ShiaoPi wrote:

Cannot pin point it to a certain game right now, would have to look in his game history again, but it is more I always feel like wanting to shoot him for some posts he does. take it as you want, I am really dont feel like like searching for specifics right now.

On June 22 2013 00:34 cDgCorazon wrote:
Replace "will" with "usually" and maybe you'll understand.

I was just talking about Yamato's meta. I'm not sure where you guys are going with this. If I was Yamato's scummate, I would have told him how to look townie in the QT and not in the thread. So your point is moot.

On June 22 2013 00:42 ShiaoPi wrote:
@marv:
I was deciding whether to put him into scum camp or null because of his playstyle.
Look at oats for example, he is somebody whose play regardless of alignment is at first glance pretty similar, so if a player like oats does something scummy I accept it as part of his usual behaviour of inconsistency etc. and do not focus too much of it until I see a clearer scumtell from my point of view.
With yamato I had left over feeling that he was scummy either way, coupled with his posts which are scummy if you look at them isolated without prior knowledge of his play. I thought: hmm maybe he is more a oats kind of player who inevitably will look scummy at some point.
Next thing is I ask my question to the thread to confirm my leftover feelings, hapa does not really tell me, corazon talks about a game I have not obsed/read, dp also has trouble differentiating between bad and scum on yamato. I know DP and hapa to be good players, dont know corazon so I arbitrarily decide to ignore corazon. See my feelings kinda confirmed and put yamato as null

On June 22 2013 01:01 goodkarma wrote:


For one thing, he endlessly clung onto a scum target and spammed "kill him" much further explanation for half the game. He seemed just overall to be much more in your face with his reads than he is here. He feels a bit more distanced and level-headed here.

People say he's being dickish and arrogant, but this game he's been far more tame than last game.

On June 22 2013 01:12 goodkarma wrote:


Well when I was ingame is what I'm the most familiar with, and what is fresh in my mind. I believe he was also especially dickish about his BH and Hapa reads last game day one. The point is here he's actually almost polite with his reads (again, compared to last game).

On June 22 2013 01:25 goodkarma wrote:


This is obvious. I don't feel I've been misleading. He has been more level-headed this game...

On June 22 2013 01:36 goodkarma wrote:


For the last time: His play felt different, and I was working to make sense of why. He is not currently a scumread for me.

On June 22 2013 01:54 goodkarma wrote:


No I can't quite figure out why Oats is playing civilly. Honestly, my time is probably better spent not thinking about it anymore for the time being...

Regarding question two: As I've said, that he actually has rationale for his reads that I could find sensibly coming from a town perspective... The complete switch of attention thing still doesn't sit well with me. Others here seem to have some kind of "well it's Oats" rationale for when he does some things, but I wanted to take a quick look at this as there could be scum motivation behind it. Said quick look apparently means my entire filter...

On June 22 2013 03:52 yamato77 wrote:

And wouldn't you think that this kind of "architecture" is exactly the kind of tell that gives away scum?

Note that his terrible initial posting came under fire both games, indicating that he generally has a hard time making opening posts as mafia. As a tried and true tactic for getting out of it, he explains away his posts and chooses to divert attention to someone else he can quickly come up with a case on.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If he's pulled this exact maneuver as scum before, why wouldn't he do it again?

On June 22 2013 03:55 yamato77 wrote:

So you don't think that I'm at all accurate in my analysis of what has gone on in this game and that game?

On June 22 2013 07:07 slOosh wrote:
Well this is an awkward timing to come back >.>

Someone ask me a really hard question, I need to gain some feel into the game.

On June 22 2013 07:14 Coagulation wrote:
marv u think im scum ?

On June 22 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:


Yes, because repeating the same point to everyone else just because you're not reading is bad. The information is all there. I gave my opinion on Ange, don't get butthurt because I wasn't talking to you directly when I said it.

Marv if you're going to start this shit again please read any game that I've ever played with you. You've been dead wrong about me so many times I'm surprised you're silly enough to throw yourself at the wall again.

On June 21 2013 14:37 ObviousOne wrote:

Haven't finished my first post of coffee. How am I supposed to be better at figuring out DP as town or scum when his scum play is being lauded in the thread as TL Mafia's gift to scum teams? Hapa looks like he may be experimenting with something early game or he's just reaction fishing in which case he's gotten a reaction out of you. They're drawing attention to themselves, that's all I need to know right now a few hours into the game.

I'll tell you exactly what I'm thinking about right now because it's win/win to share it, either mafia will continue to do these things or they will post more in the thread by which we can find the inconsistencies.

Mafia has very little reason to actively engage in discussion right now, especially if people are all pointing fingers at each other in the event that everyone posting right now is town. They would probably be content to let town tear itself apart and may not even post. People who are not posting by the end of 24 hours (and I don't mean a handful of one-liners and jokes) climb to the top of my kill-with-fire list. If all of town is talking, this list shortens greatly, and corners the scum into this category. Consider early participation to be town points for day 1. This will also effectively take out the town-aligned anti-town elements in the same vein, if townies aren't sharing their thoughts then they are playing for scum and I'd lynch them just the same to make solving the game easier down the line. (link)Did you read my post in Smurf Mini?

On June 22 2013 07:37 Ange777 wrote:
@marv:

Wouldn't a scum Obvious be more conscious about promoting activity and failing it himself as a scum player?

On June 22 2013 07:39 slOosh wrote:

I'll try to answer it, but could you first clarify either a string of posts / pages for me to refer to, or perhaps the dialogue that you found strange / scummy / (? I'm not sure). I don't really look at interactions unless we get some flips that point me that way.

On June 22 2013 07:38 cDgCorazon wrote:

As for Marv, I'd say he's scum but stupidity isn't a scum trait. If I ever roll day vig in a future game I will shoot Marv at the beginning of the game. I don't think I've ever played a game with him where he contributes to a good town atmosphere.

On June 22 2013 07:50 Ange777 wrote:
@marv: I just feel like I would be more careful about making any promises as scum because people will remember them and hold me to account for them and the least I would want is stand out badly. Right now I'd put Obvious in the same categorie as the other lurkers.

@Sloosh:

What part of Obvious' entry made you suspicious?

On June 22 2013 07:52 slOosh wrote:

Apologies ^.^

What I took out of it was that yamato backed off, so he must have some degree of town read + respect for you (marv) and Hapa. He (yamato) said he will put him (ShiaoPi) on his watch list, which is great because it means more stuff from ShiaoPi and yamato held to higher degree of contribution. Nothing worrisome yet for me.

I like this ObviousOne direction. Let's hammer out some more discussion / focus on him. Here's what caught my eye

He asks Coag (of all people), about his thoughts on Oats (a town read). If he wanted thoughts on Oats, there were people already talking about it. If he wanted thoughts from Coag, I think there could have been better questions. Do you think this is strange / different / scummy?

On June 22 2013 07:59 Ange777 wrote:
Fair enough, I'll keep that in mind.

I don't know how I am supposed to take your last sentence though ... As a compliment or as a warning?

It's late, I am off to bed now.

On June 22 2013 13:56 cDgCorazon wrote:


The problem is that Marv tunnels me in every single game we play together. How is that helpful ever?

On June 22 2013 18:01 Hapahauli wrote:

Both him and Rayn actually. Rayn's play just feels off. He's literally suspicious of every person in this game. And not in a "paranoid, spazzy townie" way. It feels very controlled and deliberate, which is just strange and scummy. I'll write something up when it's not 5am >>

On June 22 2013 23:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, talk to me.
what's your read on Cora?

On June 22 2013 23:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I kinda wanted to ask that because if you thought he is town for same reasons i did. You didn't. :/

Who do you think is scum, let's talk about them.

On June 23 2013 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why shouldn't you? If i am town i have genuine reasons to believe he is town. If i am mafia i already know he is town, thus my reasons might not be genuine.

Why are you not trying to read me at all? Have you just decided that i am town or do you somehow know i am town?

On June 23 2013 00:15 cDgCorazon wrote:

Marv if you think I'm town, why are you talking about me then? The point of the game is to catch scum.

On June 23 2013 00:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Is it expected he is going to step up and play the game at any point if town? And if mafia?

On June 23 2013 00:42 DarthPunk wrote:


You should vote for obvious cause we aren't lynching hapa day one.

On June 23 2013 01:00 DarthPunk wrote:


Hapa is not someone you lynch day one. Just like you. If he is scum it will be obvious later. It's not worth the risk of mislynching town hapa. I said all this before.

On June 23 2013 01:09 DarthPunk wrote:


I don't agree. Hapa is rarely a good lynch day one.

On June 23 2013 01:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
So why do you think he downright refuses to talk about anything as scum?

On June 23 2013 01:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause he doesnt want to derail lynch train on OO which you guys successfully did. Well done.
Notice OO is gone.

On June 23 2013 01:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
well basically my point about asking yamato is because he doesnt have enough content in his filter about DP to replace a case. Just general impression "NOT INTERESTED IN THE GAME". Which is highly subjective. Also he never asks DP anything. Notice that Yamato only votes for DP after he is under some pressure.

On June 23 2013 01:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Is DP interested Marv?

On June 23 2013 02:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
address the other stuff about yamato.
Fine he sucks at scumhunting. What about the other stuff.

On June 23 2013 02:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
how would you be convinced that he is scum?

On June 23 2013 02:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
I kinda think hes scum for thinking yamato is town.
Also random vote on DP for no reason.

But its marv.

I dont know.

On June 23 2013 03:25 Coagulation wrote:
Marv so far has completely failed to put any pressure at all on me. He seems content with leaving me fucking off calling him scum like herpderp because he knows its not gonna gain traction. Instead hes focused on the bigger players in the game cause he doesnt see me as a threat.. town marv wouldnt be so passive about me IMO.

On June 23 2013 04:25 yamato77 wrote:
For example, it obviously not you or Marv. I doubt that Sloosh, GK, OO, or Coag made the vote. That leaves shiao/ange/adam as all afk lurkers who wouldn't have had the timing to made the vote. Oats, Rayn, and Cora have no reason to hide their suspicion of me.

Who is it, then? DP is the only one that makes any sense. And it's obviously not a town vote.

On June 23 2013 05:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
I have a strong feeling about DP being town for a couple of reasons:

1. His play has been productive and level-headed for most of the game. He is contributing to discussion and I don't believe he is hiding anything. His play seems very genuine to me and he has been very logical and reasonable in everyone he has analyzed. I don't see anything in his filter that looks scummy to me.

2. There have been a couple points where Hapa has been under fire. Instead of joining the wagon or not saying anything, DP has come out multiple (at least 5 times) to say that a Hapa lynch is a really stupid idea due to Hapa's importance to town. It would be so easy for scum DP to jump on the Hapa lynch train or to just sit out of the way and let a Hapa lynch train form. The fact that he went out of his way to defend Hapa means that he wants to keep Hapa alive for as long as possible, which would be super beneficial to town.

On June 23 2013 05:39 yamato77 wrote:

It just lines up too well, man. I don't think DP expected the votecount to get posted then. He left and placed it at the same time. It's just too perfect.

On June 23 2013 05:49 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw, can someone confirm to me that GK doesn't read his role PM's on Day 1? I know he mentioned it in Les Mis Mini, but I haven't seen it anywhere else from him.

On June 17 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote:
And out of respect for you as a player, I promise no day one shenannies Marv

On June 23 2013 06:01 Hapahauli wrote:


Hm ok. Because of all the people in the thread, I think his play is objectively the scummiest.

He's off doing his own thing with Shiao, and doesn't seem interested in pushing his case at all. He kinda just dropped a case, said he was voting Shiao, and fucked off.

On June 23 2013 06:21 Hapahauli wrote:
Marv, where do you stand in all of the consolidation talks btw? Who do you want to lynch?

On June 23 2013 06:35 Ange777 wrote:
I am still only on page 36 and so far I would like to lynch DarthPunk. Hapa, you said, I should concentrate on GK or ShiaoPi but I haven't seen them posting yet.

On June 23 2013 06:45 Hapahauli wrote:


That kinda read as scummy to me. He's just picking a fight and getting angry over something stupid and random.

On June 23 2013 06:46 ObviousOne wrote:

Let's say for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate that I'm wrong about DP and that your view makes the most sense: the period when I was around was, what, 6-9 hours into the game? That means that it was pretty early in the game to be making hard scum stances which does make some sense. Not everyone had checked in, middle of the night for probably half of the players in the game, etc. That means that his vote on me devolves into a policy lynch. Specifically, his evidence is that I fucked off (that I was not here is undeniable and I won't even contest it). What makes his POLICY lynch better than mine?


Perhaps DP didn't take into consideration that I didn't want a repeat of Carnival N0 where I tunneled the hell out of him for something that I was stupid about (the miller claim) knowing full well that if I get into it with him it's probably going to shit up the thread.

On June 23 2013 06:48 ObviousOne wrote:

Lurker lynch is not a policy lynch? Just asking because that's how I see his final push on me with this stuff. Maybe you see it differently?

On June 23 2013 06:50 slOosh wrote:
Right now I'm spending time looking into the context of DP's stance on ObviousOne.



He professes having problems reading OO. I'm double checking to see what gives him the bolster of confidence.

On June 23 2013 06:54 slOosh wrote:
So did he follow up with you when you unvoted OO?

On June 23 2013 06:58 slOosh wrote:

Marv could I get a follow up on this one? Why wouldn't town DP just say from the getgo

instead of refusing to do it?

On June 23 2013 07:04 slOosh wrote:
Marv you don't think DP is someone who is comfortable with pressure as scum? Also want to echo Ange777's question

On June 23 2013 07:04 Ange777 wrote:
So what exactly do you need hapa to push for? For a GK lynch? Why not try to push others yourself?

On June 23 2013 07:07 Hapahauli wrote:


I'd like to think I've been pushing discussion quite well for the past two hours. If you want me to lock onto a single read, well I just went and did it (though somewhat reluctantly). I do as well think GK is the better lynch, but I can't say with a straight face that I wouldn't mind seeing DP hang. And it looks like your attitude is exactly the same.

On June 22 2013 21:29 goodkarma wrote:


I don't see why you'd tell us this, and then sit on said writeup... We have 10 1/2 hours before lynch, and it seems we're nowhere close to coming to some kind of consolidation. If you have some kind of damning super-convincing case on Hapa/Yamato, why not get it out in the open now?

On June 23 2013 07:08 slOosh wrote:

I think you are overemphasizing the 3 votes a bit - you saw that they were quickly removed as they were put on.

You said yourself it doesn't make sense for town DP to do that either. So I don't understand how you are using something alignment null to say DP is leaning town.

On June 23 2013 07:12 slOosh wrote:
Ehh ... maybe we're just splitting hairs on playstyle ... whatever.

Could I ask for your general feel of ShiaoPi?

On June 23 2013 07:26 ObviousOne wrote:

The "fuck off, I'm doing my thang", thang?

On June 23 2013 07:29 slOosh wrote:
Marv, could I have your thoughts on Hapa's general attitude toward DP?

On June 23 2013 07:30 Hapahauli wrote:


Depends on how DP flips I suppose. I gander I'd look pretty terrible if he flipped red :3

On June 23 2013 07:34 Hapahauli wrote:


Yeah, I just feel awful in this situation. I want to lynch GK, but I almost want to see DP flip more >>

On June 23 2013 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Ok that's definitely not the direction we want to be heading.

Could you reiterate your hesitations on lynching DP / larger sureness on lynching GK?

On June 23 2013 07:43 Hapahauli wrote:


It's funny.

But generally if I'm thinking along the lines of marv, it means he's town, so it's an odd but comforting feeling.

On June 23 2013 07:45 slOosh wrote:
One reason I want to lynch DP over GK is that he prefaces his suspicions of "hey, I always find them scummy". It's a cop out of responsibility.

On June 23 2013 07:54 Ange777 wrote:
DP chose to not contribute by only posting one-liners while goodkarma was just completely missing. While I can see a town motivation for goodkarma (by simply being busy) I can't do that for DP. Therefore my scum read on DP is stronger than my scum read on goodkarma.

On June 23 2013 07:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really feel like DP lynch would be really terrible so I would go for any other option besides DP.

GK is in that list of people who have played subpar and I would be up for his lynch. Right now there is a clusterfuck of people who have played like this. Might as well get rid of one of them now (as Hapa said).

##Unvote
##Vote: Goodkarma

On June 23 2013 07:57 slOosh wrote:
Could be away for whatever reason? Is it making you doubt the GK lynch?

On June 23 2013 08:00 slOosh wrote:
Cora scum, DP town, GK scum scenario where cora is trying to look good by risking to put his vote on a teammate?

On June 23 2013 08:12 cDgCorazon wrote:
This is why I never talk about my town reads.

Anyways, I'm not entirely sure if I should claim seeing as I'm getting lynched tomorrow.

On June 23 2013 08:13 Coagulation wrote:


yeah bro nice last ditch attempt to swing the lynch onto me to save your scum buddy.

your pretty much day 2 lynch in my book ez if marv survives.

On June 23 2013 08:23 Coagulation wrote:
well we will find out tonight.

On June 23 2013 08:36 Coagulation wrote:
how the fuck are you people getting town reads on marv. hes playing so scummy.....

On June 23 2013 08:38 Coagulation wrote:
he doesnt even give a shit if im town or not entire day 1. he took zero initiative to get a fucking read on me.... thats not townie marv.. I get drilled day 1 every game when he town.

On June 23 2013 08:39 marvellosity wrote:


That's a flat-out lie.

On June 23 2013 05:30 marvellosity wrote:


I'm just catching up before my shower.

Are you serious? I always ignore you day 1 because you're completely worthless. You're just completely uninteresting and there's no point interacting with someone who just says pointless shit for no reason.

This is the first time I've seen you try to make a "sensible" comment but it's bullshit and it stinks horribly. How much did we interact on day 1 in the last omgus game we played? Did I even talk to you once?

On June 23 2013 08:41 Coagulation wrote:


Uh noperz

On June 23 2013 08:55 Coagulation wrote:


so you fucking admit your acting fucking different to me now. and I dont give a shit what you say about the skill level at omgus that has nothing to do with this game.

On June 23 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause i feel like his play in this game is way different from his play in ISWEAR. There he just occasionally posted null reads and stuff and never really interacted with the thread. Here, he pushed me, push shiao pi. So when marv has bad reasoning for both GK and Yamato, its really not great. Doesnt mean right = good reasoning for yamato.

On June 23 2013 15:23 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Adam
Thanks for the feedback. No one really brought it up before and no one really talked about it after I posted so I just wanted to make sure I was somewhere on the right track.

@GK
You do bring up a good point with Marv. Those posts illustrate your point very well, but they're not too far out of the way a townie who is simply misreading would post. I'll wait until Marv makes a rebuttal to make a real decision about his scumminess.

I'm going to bed. Looking forward to seeing more people post tomorrow.

On June 23 2013 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, it looks like I've gotten everything out of Oats that I will for a while.

I'm not as sure that he's scum anymore. He's responding fairly quickly and not showing very much guilt while doing so. While his answers are incoherent and unprepared, they do make sense provided that he was calling me scum in order to "poke" me and see how I'd react.

I still find him "poking" somewhat uncharacteristic for his town-game (he's usually much more direct/forceful with his reads), but I'll need to sleep on it and see what his actual reads end up being before I make a final judgement call.

On June 23 2013 20:24 Ange777 wrote:
Marv, I don't understand how you can give Adam a townish read when he actually voted for the "wrong" person. He did replace someone so yes, he get's some more time but how can you put Adam above Sloosh? Sloosh's vote was the one vote that secured the DP lynch.

On June 23 2013 20:34 Ange777 wrote:
To be honest I really don't see scum ShiaoPi right now. Yes, his inactivity is troubling but in I Swear he showed that he can actually play scum differently. Reverting back to his absolutely lurking scum meta from the past just simply does not make any sense for me.

On June 23 2013 20:38 Ange777 wrote:
That would leave us with your other scum read goodkarma. I am not so sure whether I really can believe that we had two scum as our lynch targets on day 1 ... seems unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. I haven't seen much from him to actually change my mind about his play but in light of the flip I am unsure about lynching him. I still want to see a second scum read from him.

On June 23 2013 20:43 Ange777 wrote:
Marv, actually I would like you to explain more about your read on Cora and rayn as well.

On June 23 2013 21:14 Ange777 wrote:
Just to be clear, I had Cora as town until that halfhearted push on goodkarma. But take that push and his seemingly opportunistic (blue) role claim or not claim (why even mention it? Mentioning it can only be in order to make people doubt their scum read on him and will make him prone for possible roleblocks) and I don't see how you can so happily put him on your town list.

On June 23 2013 21:28 Ange777 wrote:
Well if he is indeed mafia, then I believe he has sucessfully made town worry about killing off their blues. I assume you meant "if he is indeed blue"?

I am racking my brain but I really have difficulties to understand what you are trying to explain to me. Is it this?

Cora has a town read on DarthPunk (flipped scum). He says he doesn't want his town read DarthPunk dead, therefore votes goodkarma. Only if we know that goodkarma is green and Cora tried to push the lynch from a scum player to a town player, we can peg him as scum?

What if - speculations incoming - goodkarma is a mafia goon. Losing their mafia goon instead of their godfather would certainly be a better trade, especially as DarthPunk is considered a better scum player than goodkarma by a lot of us. If the above really is what you wanted to tell me, than I don't think it's logic is as sound as you think it is.

On June 23 2013 22:28 Ange777 wrote:
Marv, I remember you being pretty active and vocal and pushy. You feel very reserved in this game. And I don't like that.

How did you go from here ...



... to here ...



... to here in the end?



You were willing to lynch Sloosh or me in your first post. Later on, both of us had only posted a "I am back." post and you seem to have forgotten about wanting to lynch one of us. What is missing as well is commenting on goodkarma between the first post and your vote post. In your list post, you had three possible lynch candidates. Even if you take away Obvious after your conversation, you still had two other candidates. And you gave both of them a pretty easy way out because neither of us was really pressured when we came back. Instead you vote someone who you said could possibly be town as well.

If we assume that you had put Sloosh and me on the To Kill List because of inactivity, nothing really promised that we would be more active just by the "I am back post".

Combine the above with you trying to soft push for a goodkarma lynch instead of DarthPunk repeatedly (which goodkarma himself already pointed out as possibly scum motivated), I am very suspicious of you right now.

On June 24 2013 00:54 ObviousOne wrote:
Holy shit Oats has one solitary scum game in his profile and it's Ego? I'm fucked.

On June 24 2013 01:01 slOosh wrote:
Hey marv, could you do me a favor and reread Hapa's filter concerning his stance on DP / GK? I want to see if you come to the same conclusion as I did.

On June 24 2013 01:35 slOosh wrote:
>.> Please comment on the main content of my post rather than the little blurb.

On June 24 2013 01:46 slOosh wrote:

Perhaps the order was flipped, but it should stand as a point against, not for, voting lurkers, based on his previous post no?

On June 24 2013 01:52 slOosh wrote:
You may very well be correct - if you think it's a null point, that's fine, not worth hashing out another page to clarify a small part of the larger case.

pg 57~60 when you can please!

On June 24 2013 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marvellosity do you think my case on Hapa boiled down to him being asleep and him and yamato both being scum and nothing more when you read it?

On June 24 2013 02:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And 4) He suddenly went off from questioning GK, his top scumread and focused on completely different things.

Now, how does Hapa's answers to me last night make sense again?

On June 24 2013 04:24 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Can you explain your reads on sloOsh (seemingly null) and Coag (strong town) respectively?

I have sloOsh at very strong town given how much sense he's making. Also regardless of GK's allignment, he was the hammer vote on the Godfather, which makes me incredibly skeptical of any sort of suspicion on him.

As for Coag, I'm not sure what his behavioral tells are, but his vote on DP actually isn't that important. It wasn't made in the last minute scramble, and almost seemed like a throwaway vote made in the middle of D1 when DP had virtually no chance of getting lynched.

On June 24 2013 05:35 cDgCorazon wrote:

That doesn't give you an excuse to do nothing the rest of the game.

On June 24 2013 06:51 Hapahauli wrote:


There's some very objectionable analysis in this paragraph.



The argument that he changed his scum-play for the worse isn't very compelling.



I can point to several of his town games where he acts just like this.

In fact, Mafia LXII comes to mind - a game that you both played in.



I'm surprised at the lack of sympathy you have for the "afk" thing, given that you used it in your own defense earlier this game and was afk for a good portion of this game yourself.

On June 24 2013 06:59 Hapahauli wrote:


My point isn't that Shiao is super town. It's that the things that GK is attacking him for are null-tells.

And frankly I'm more interested in hearing GK talk for himself. I need to establish his alignment right now, as that is the most pressing thing.

On June 24 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:


Well lynch me then. I really don't care.

On June 24 2013 07:20 goodkarma wrote:


That was Hiro sorry my bad. Hopefully he doesn't modkill me for mistaking him for Shao O.O

On June 24 2013 07:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
They haven't had a thread presence. They haven't been trying to push their reads and they haven't been contributing to the discussion.

The only big action they've done is voting for DP, and they did it mostly out of the blue. They didn't decide to commit to anything before the vote and for the most part, they haven't done much after the lynch either. I don't know where they stand and I still can't get a good read on them, which worries me greatly.

On July 05 2013 08:12 ObviousOne wrote:
I dunno. Don't know how to close out a scum game yet. Tried to make it look like it was sloosh's shot but I guess I fucked up enough D1.