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On June 24 2013 06:45 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 06:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Somewhat.
He's being a lot more trolly this game which is throwing me off. The raw activity suggests he's town, but his refusal to substantiate anything is maddening. Welcome to every game ever with Oats. Anyway, work again. I'll see you guys in a while.
But usually Oats is willing to substantiate his reads and scumhunt without fail. He's a very opinionated guy who will death-tunnel people he thinks are mafia. This game doesn't fit that pattern. He seems more interested in "poking" people by calling them mafia, then refusing to back any of it up.
It's like he doesn't want himself to be taken seriously, which I associate with his scum-mentality.
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On June 24 2013 06:52 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 06:26 Hapahauli wrote:GK, it really looks like you're mis-representing Cora's vote on you. From the very post you quoted... On June 23 2013 07:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really feel like DP lynch would be really terrible so I would go for any other option besides DP.
GK is in that list of people who have played subpar and I would be up for his lynch. Right now there is a clusterfuck of people who have played like this. Might as well get rid of one of them now (as Hapa said).
##Unvote
##Vote: Goodkarma The lurker lynch seems like a post-justification for his vote. He had a town-read on DP and didn't want to see him lynched. Whether or not that read on DP is scummy is a subject for another debate, but it is what it is. Also, why do you care about list posts? List posts are non-alignment indicative. I have my reasons to be suspicious of Cora, but all the reasons you're coming up with aren't very robust. If you're referring to his lurker lynch post he made not too long ago I referenced, it doesn't sit well with me that half those people were on the DP wagon, and he doesn't even make any kind of note of it. He doesn't work to differentiate between them at all, and just makes some kind of blanket statement that he's okay with lynching into them. And that is scummy.
Oh ok that makes a bit more sense.
I'll give you that - it does look really bad.
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On June 24 2013 06:53 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 06:51 Hapahauli wrote:On June 24 2013 06:42 goodkarma wrote:On June 24 2013 04:55 Hapahauli wrote:@ GoodKarmaRegarding CoraThere are a lot of things I could say about his play, but wishy-washy isn't one of them. Also his reasoning for voting you was pretty much "I think DP is super-town, I will vote anyone except for him"(...which isn't any better, but it isn't what you represent it to be ("lololol there are 5 lurkers let's go and kill GK"). Regarding ShaioOne of the reasons that I'm skeptical of your push is along the lines of what Ange said a couple of pages back: On June 23 2013 20:34 Ange777 wrote:
To be honest I really don't see scum ShiaoPi right now. Yes, his inactivity is troubling but in I Swear he showed that he can actually play scum differently. Reverting back to his absolutely lurking scum meta from the past just simply does not make any sense for me. From last game, we know the guy is capable of playing an active and engaged scumgame. So why revert to this passive/lurky play? Also, are you sure this passive play of his is exclusive to his scum-games as opposed to his town-games? I already discussed the Cora portion with Cora. As far as Shao goes, yes he played as scum last game in a way substantially different from this one. Specifically, he was more active. But the games before that he apparently played differently enough from that that you couldn't spot him as scum. Why do you think he couldn't have changed his scumplay yet again here? I have trouble understanding how as town Shao would be this trollish and unproductive. And on top of all the scummy things he's done, his vote on me and afk is behavior that could be clearly scum-motivated. ... There's some very objectionable analysis in this paragraph. But the games before that he apparently played differently enough from that that you couldn't spot him as scum. Why do you think he couldn't have changed his scumplay yet again here? The argument that he changed his scum-play for the worse isn't very compelling. I have trouble understanding how as town Shao would be this trollish and unproductive. I can point to several of his town games where he acts just like this. In fact, Mafia LXII comes to mind - a game that you both played in. And on top of all the scummy things he's done, his vote on me and afk is behavior that could be clearly scum-motivated. I'm surprised at the lack of sympathy you have for the "afk" thing, given that you used it in your own defense earlier this game and was afk for a good portion of this game yourself. Frankly I find the contention that a player who's lurked in many scumgames and been active in one, we should assume he's going to be active in this one too, on top of what I said about playing more than one scumgame in a row. In fact you yourself should know how horrible it is to play consecutive scumgames. The argument seems to be that a mafia player would make a special effort to be active and involved, whereas a townplayer would not make this effort. When has it ever been this way round, ever?
My point isn't that Shiao is super town. It's that the things that GK is attacking him for are null-tells.
And frankly I'm more interested in hearing GK talk for himself. I need to establish his alignment right now, as that is the most pressing thing.
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@ Cora
On June 24 2013 07:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well it's really obvious to me now that GK is scum because he is both attacking a lynchbait and attacking him with really bad arguments where only one point is actually valid.
If I have to be lynched for you all to see that, so be it.
GK does have one very good point against you:
On June 24 2013 00:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
You.
Perhaps Ange, as it would be really easy for scum to cast doubt on me and push for my lynch D2. That got me really suspicious.
The third one is probably in one of the lurkers and semi-lurkers (GK/ShiaoPi/Coag/OO/SloOsh and others I'm probably forgetting).
This quote is really, really not good. Especially the bolded.
You group a bunch of "lurkers" without attempting to differentiate between them at all.
OO and SloOsh for example are mind-numbingly obv-town. Coag's a bit of a lighter-town read, but also should be considered fairly townie.
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On June 24 2013 07:09 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 06:51 Hapahauli wrote:On June 24 2013 06:42 goodkarma wrote:On June 24 2013 04:55 Hapahauli wrote:@ GoodKarmaRegarding CoraThere are a lot of things I could say about his play, but wishy-washy isn't one of them. Also his reasoning for voting you was pretty much "I think DP is super-town, I will vote anyone except for him"(...which isn't any better, but it isn't what you represent it to be ("lololol there are 5 lurkers let's go and kill GK"). Regarding ShaioOne of the reasons that I'm skeptical of your push is along the lines of what Ange said a couple of pages back: On June 23 2013 20:34 Ange777 wrote:
To be honest I really don't see scum ShiaoPi right now. Yes, his inactivity is troubling but in I Swear he showed that he can actually play scum differently. Reverting back to his absolutely lurking scum meta from the past just simply does not make any sense for me. From last game, we know the guy is capable of playing an active and engaged scumgame. So why revert to this passive/lurky play? Also, are you sure this passive play of his is exclusive to his scum-games as opposed to his town-games? I already discussed the Cora portion with Cora. As far as Shao goes, yes he played as scum last game in a way substantially different from this one. Specifically, he was more active. But the games before that he apparently played differently enough from that that you couldn't spot him as scum. Why do you think he couldn't have changed his scumplay yet again here? I have trouble understanding how as town Shao would be this trollish and unproductive. And on top of all the scummy things he's done, his vote on me and afk is behavior that could be clearly scum-motivated. ... There's some very objectionable analysis in this paragraph. But the games before that he apparently played differently enough from that that you couldn't spot him as scum. Why do you think he couldn't have changed his scumplay yet again here? The argument that he changed his scum-play for the worse isn't very compelling. I have trouble understanding how as town Shao would be this trollish and unproductive. I can point to several of his town games where he acts just like this. In fact, Mafia LXII comes to mind - a game that you both played in. And on top of all the scummy things he's done, his vote on me and afk is behavior that could be clearly scum-motivated. I'm surprised at the lack of sympathy you have for the "afk" thing, given that you used it in your own defense earlier this game and was afk for a good portion of this game yourself. 1) (Shao made his scumplay "worse;" I would just say if scum here he made is scumgame different): If indeed he's played like this as town, then fitting into his town meta wouldn't exactly be subpar as scum would it?
Fair.
2)I was scum with Shao last game, and scum with him very briefly in Rockband before replacing out. He was town and I was scum in LVII, and he was in fact productive there and not this troll you've seen him be... And as far as I can remember, that's it. I certainly never played in LXII, and if you were to check my profile you'd know that... The point here is he clearly has different playstyles as town and different playstyles as scum, so exactly why are you trying so hard to meta-analyze him?
Shaio didn't play rockband. And yes I mean LVII - wrong roman numeral. Annnnnyway, his early game was markedly similar to his early-game here, where he made a bunch of wishy-washy list-post reads and complained about being away from the game. It was only later in the game (in the last few days) where he really took charge of the town and almost won the whole thing for town.
Also, I'm more trying to play devils advocate with you to see how much substance your reads have than some sort of Shiao meta-analysis.
3) The afk around lynch-time specifically is not necessarily alignment-indicative. That he refuses to pop back in here and share reads of any kind, even after clearly being around enough to troll, is scummy as fuck.
He was in here and trolling? Which posts are you referring to, because I don't see them.
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On June 24 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:@ CoraOn June 24 2013 07:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well it's really obvious to me now that GK is scum because he is both attacking a lynchbait and attacking him with really bad arguments where only one point is actually valid.
If I have to be lynched for you all to see that, so be it. GK does have one very good point against you: On June 24 2013 00:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
You.
Perhaps Ange, as it would be really easy for scum to cast doubt on me and push for my lynch D2. That got me really suspicious.
The third one is probably in one of the lurkers and semi-lurkers (GK/ShiaoPi/Coag/OO/SloOsh and others I'm probably forgetting). This quote is really, really not good. Especially the bolded. You group a bunch of "lurkers" without attempting to differentiate between them at all. OO and SloOsh for example are mind-numbingly obv-town. Coag's a bit of a lighter-town read, but also should be considered fairly townie. Well lynch me then. I really don't care.
Do you think I'm asking something unreasonable of you? Don't martyr. Just answer my question.
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On June 24 2013 07:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
I grouped them all in the same category (as lurkers) because I'm still not sure about them. Sure, some of them voted for DP and were on his wagon, but they've all played really shoddy games and I'm not going to write them off as town just because they voted on the right wagon. As I've said before, that should not give anyone an excuse to not continue to look town and make an effort in the game.
Let's talk about sloOsh and OO then.
What about their play is "shoddy" so far?
Why are their voting actions not sufficient to exonerate them? (And in OO's case, DP trying to get him killed)?
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On June 24 2013 07:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
They haven't had a thread presence. They haven't been trying to push their reads and they haven't been contributing to the discussion.
The only big action they've done is voting for DP, and they did it mostly out of the blue. They didn't decide to commit to anything before the vote and for the most part, they haven't done much after the lynch either. I don't know where they stand and I still can't get a good read on them, which worries me greatly.
With OO, there's still the big factor that DP tried to lead a wagon on him. Actually, both DP and Oats voted him at some point, which makes your suspicions of him somewhat strange.
As for sloOsh, how has he not been contributing? He's been doing quite well since the lynch.
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On June 24 2013 07:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 07:48 Hapahauli wrote:On June 24 2013 07:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
They haven't had a thread presence. They haven't been trying to push their reads and they haven't been contributing to the discussion.
The only big action they've done is voting for DP, and they did it mostly out of the blue. They didn't decide to commit to anything before the vote and for the most part, they haven't done much after the lynch either. I don't know where they stand and I still can't get a good read on them, which worries me greatly. With OO, there's still the big factor that DP tried to lead a wagon on him. Actually, both DP and Oats voted him at some point, which makes your suspicions of him somewhat strange. As for sloOsh, how has he not been contributing? He's been doing quite well since the lynch. OO is far down my list of people I want to lynch but I'm not going to write him off as confirmed town. How many ways do i have to phrase that? Overall, sloOsh's contributions have been mediocre. His filter is about 2 and a half pages, with 50% of that coming after the lynch. He's done well N1, but his D1 posting left a lot to be desired.
So is there anyone confirmed town in your mind? Actually, can I get a list of who you consider to be town/scum/null?
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hahaha that was werid as fuck
GG all of y'alls
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I called the fake drunkenness thing btw
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On June 24 2013 08:11 goodkarma wrote:
@Corazon:
From the OP:
"Overview: This is a closed setup. There are no standard notifications (RB, save, hit) in this game and there will be full role reveal on death. Passive abilities and factional KP cannot be roleblocked. The town win condition is to eliminate all anti-town players."
So either you are lying, or the host is.
Oooooh.
oooh.
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Moral of the story - trying to mislynch me never works and ends up in your death.
Unless you're marv and Z-Boson.
*shakes fist*
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On June 24 2013 08:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
See, I told you I was roleblocked.
GK scum for trying to get me lynched yet again.
Uhm. I mean I really doubt there are four scum.
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Anywho, gonna read through rayn's filter and see what I find.
I do remember him talking aobut GK and Shiao, so we'll see what becomes of it.
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I'm inclined to think that Rayn's super-defense of Oats last night makes Oats town. Rayn just seems waaaay too sure about it, and hard defending a scum-buddy like that is very psychologically difficult.
That's really all I drew of relevancy from Rayn's filter on one quick readthrough. He does talk about reads on Shiao, GK, and others, but never really does anything committal that would say anything about their allignments.
I'd like to hear other's thoughts on it.
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On June 24 2013 08:36 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think another great filter to look at is Ange's.
I'm assuming the scum NK'd her, but why? Perhaps she was on the right track?
I will look at her filter right after my shower.
Ange was the most obvious townie in the game as well as an analyst. Also, her main suspicion was on marv, so scum shooting her (assuming they did) due to her suspicions don't make much sense.
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On June 24 2013 08:41 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm inclined to think that Rayn's super-defense of Oats last night makes Oats town. Rayn just seems waaaay too sure about it, and hard defending a scum-buddy like that is very psychologically difficult.
That's really all I drew of relevancy from Rayn's filter on one quick readthrough. He does talk about reads on Shiao, GK, and others, but never really does anything committal that would say anything about their allignments.
I'd like to hear other's thoughts on it. Don't you mean my hard defense of Oatsmaster?
No? Unless you're the last scum giving up ofc.
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On June 24 2013 08:44 ObviousOne wrote:
I wrote a few posts about it, before you came back I think, detailing why I thought that Oats was town. Do you disagree with me on that? If I remember correctly you were drawing some kind of association with Yamato? I need to read it again.
Not anymore I don't.
I'm referring to looking through Rayns filter now that he flipped red. When I interacted with him (p57-60) at the time that I posted my case on Oats, Rayn was flipping out and screaming that Oats was town in the thread.
I find it extremely unlikely that Oats is scum on this basis, given that scum rarely (if ever) hard-defend their buddies THAT intensely when suspicion is brought on them.
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EPT
