I Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia

On June 09 2013 14:57 ShiaoPi wrote:

why?

On June 09 2013 15:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
So the generate discussion...
Why not vote for yourself then? Why sylencia especially?

On June 09 2013 15:05 ShiaoPi wrote:


I doubt that he is really running at all. Has not voted himself even. Why sylencia over for example axle who voted himself?

On June 09 2013 15:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
fair enough, but why sylencia in comparison to the others active in the thread?

On June 09 2013 15:22 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am intersted in getting sylencia back here right now.
What is your stance on my campaign?

On June 09 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Vayne

Voting for the sake of opposition/discussion-starting is OK, however not at the expense of ignoring all the other discussion happening in the thread.

Like Shaio's mayoral campaign is a perfectly good topic for discussion. I don't understand why you think an unjustified vote for a person who's not even running a serious campaign would somehow be a better way to start discussion or even pro-town for that matter.

On June 09 2013 18:57 AxleGreaser wrote:
Vayne, I have tried twice to write this post the first one asked the wrong question.
it may still ask not what i mean. meh.
It is a difficult little thought please read carefully and discuss it with me.
After one or two iterations we may reach common ground.

Gross generalisations about your meta + Show Spoiler + TLDR; its all orange to me.

Those are broad sweeping generalisations, and they are I think about your town and scum play. (orange bit)
if after the discussion they are wrong sorry?

Concrete observations in this game.
In this post you say you do things to promote discussion.
+ Show Spoiler + so you poked them with a stick. {good/agree/yes/tick}.

Conversely when you are poked (asked a question)
+ Show Spoiler +
Do you engage in conversation. Does the discussion proceed or does your answer tend to shut it down?

Your discussion promotion method (vote) is something that is easy for scum to emulate. Answering questions when being prodded is harder, please try to to do the harder things too.

Here is a new question.
Independent of how the votes pan out, because sometimes at the end of the day there is one no brainer candidate.
If we discussed the mayoral campaign, and found out who was shy about commenting during the day before the result was clear, would that help find scum or would it as you seem to suggest yield 'zero information'.

Do note I agree wholeheartedly with the general sentiment, (and I am pretty sure my previous games will support the notion that,) I oppose days with one wagon, but primarily because there is no/limited discussion.

lastly even if you need the votes (or you get zero information), I think a number of other people need significant interactive discussion and the vote, so please comment more fully on the question of the mayoral election.

On June 09 2013 23:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
I mean, this is the reason Vayne's vote


Yeah thats a vote that isnt on Shiao for the sake of it. So he doesnt appear too sheepy or compliant of whatever. Not cause he thinks you are a better mayor. Bad.

On June 10 2013 01:32 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vayne why am I and Shiao scum?

Dont be paranoid. Have reasons related to our posting.

On June 10 2013 01:36 Oatsmaster wrote:

So why did you vote for syl if you dont think that shiao is scum?
What makes Syl more town than shiao? What makes Syl more town than you?


What makes me scum.

On June 10 2013 01:36 Oatsmaster wrote:

he posted a decent amount so far. What does playing with you before have to do with reading him?

On June 10 2013 01:41 Oatsmaster wrote:
Exactly Vayne.
You voted for syl JUST to rock the boat. No other reason.
Because it makes you look like you are not a sheep.

My points stand, you care about appearances more than actually voting for a town mayor/lynching scum today.

Why am I scum? Why does me calling you scum over the Syl vote make me scum? What else makes me scum.

Why dont you want to make a read on Shiao? What does not playing with him before mean you cant read him?

On June 10 2013 01:42 Oatsmaster wrote:

whoop de do.
Ok.

So do you think its more likely for scum or for town to do the mayoral campaign he is currently running?

On June 10 2013 01:50 Oatsmaster wrote:

How do you play? How am I misrepresenting your posts? Point it out.
Dont just act all wounded with no proof whatsoever.

On June 10 2013 07:11 Hapahauli wrote:


Can you explain your reads a bit? I think I heard a decent amount from you on Oats, but I'm more curious about Jampi.


I'd assume either 3 scum or 2 powerful scum + an SK.



DarthPunk also hasn't posted.

Also, what do you think about Sylencia?

On June 10 2013 11:32 GravityMan wrote:

You are entirely correct in your assessment of myself in that I have not provided sufficient means to make you or the rest of town trust me through my actions. Do remember, however, that once again the day is but half over and I have only posted a handful of times. I hope to make it fairly obvious as both time and space progress.

To answer one of your queries before I progress to the answers you provided; I prefer not to bases my analyses and reads on the previous actions of other players. It is an unnecessary strain on my capacitors and have minimal space left in my memory banks.

Now you have actually gone some way in determining your capacity to me as a potential mayoral candidate; certainly much more than this ShiaoPi. I still hesitate to remove my vite from myself but know that I am not yet locked in, and should it be made clear to me that someone's abilities are superior to my own then I will gladly vote accordingly. Your townread of this jampidampi was confusing me I must admit, because there was very little I could glean from his filter that seemed to be specifically aligned towards the town. Of course the time-post scenario you have outlined is what stood out to me the most and I didn't understand why you were so quick to acknowledge his defense. Your second point regarding his questioning appears valid, yet again his activity level leaves it difficult to reach a strong conclusion. I would agree with you in that this jampidampi would be my strongest read into the scumplayers for today thus far, and yet this is relatively speaking (as I must), so I cannot give it a great deal of weight yet.

I have much to expect from this DarthPunk so I eagerly await his arrival to the thread.


Now as you have correctly mentioned, I have not had the chance to do a great deal of hunting myself, thus I begin:

VayneAuthority: you mention early on in the game you do not trust this AxleGreaser. May I inquire as to why?


You also mention that you do not want a target on your back, yet the way you currently post you clearly do not mind attracting attention to yourself, not unlike the attraction of two gravitational bodies. This appears contradictory. Can you comment please?

On June 10 2013 11:40 GravityMan wrote:

So you feel that attracting seemingly negative attention to yourself you are then doing the town a service by distracting them from more appropriatel targets at hand (assuming you are town)? Why do you feel the need to survive well into the game?

On June 10 2013 11:55 GravityMan wrote:

To be sure. But also to be sure is that someone inevitably must die on the first night. Do you envision yourself a strong mafia player in general, one that the scum are likely to target on the first night if you play to your full capacity? Forgive me if I am being presumptuous but I find it disconcerting that one would purposefully handicap their own strong play and purposefully not help the town so that they may survive to a point in the game where it may become more difficult to win.

On June 10 2013 12:29 GravityMan wrote:

If it is just the way you play, I am unsure as to why you would feel that scum are likely to kill you on the first night. Thank you for answering my queries, however. I have one final question for you.
You vote for this Hapahauli as it seems to be the direction the majority of active town are heading at the moment. I take it this means you are finished trying to create conversation by going against the general sentiment?

On June 11 2013 03:13 GravityMan wrote:

I feel (as capable as I am feeling at all, of course) that you are now just adding to a list of things the rest of town and I must hold you to as the game progresses.

Tell me, do you have anything to say regarding my most recent lengthy post or any of the accusations against you?

On June 11 2013 03:18 GravityMan wrote:
According to my internal atomic clock, there are currently 7 hours and 43 minutes remaining in today's activities.

You intrigue me with this. I fear I must repeat earlier question brought up by this ShiaoPi and ask, why do you feel that it is necessary to withhold information from the town on the day of a lynch and election? How do you feel this will assist in our ability to catch the scum rather than send the thread into chaos mere hours before the deadline?

On June 11 2013 03:57 Blazinghand wrote:
look hapaos obviously vayne is town but the mayoral type would be infinitely better used in your hands than his.

On June 11 2013 04:01 Blazinghand wrote:
VA the mayoral role would be a waste in your hands. I take back every compliment. I'm guessing you just got lucky hoodwinking me last game

On June 11 2013 04:04 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm not sold on BH yet.

I don't like how he decided to call Oats a retard for like 3 pages of conversation, and that reads more like provocation than something purposeful. However I do think he's capable of doing stuff like that as town to a degree.

I'd like one more day with BH, but jampi has a clearly attributable scum-mentality with his vote on Vayne.

On June 11 2013 04:08 GravityMan wrote:

I disagree with your comment.
I would posit that acting purposefully mysterious and dropping hints without any details is not a good way to hide the fact that you have a power role, rather it makes you look incredibly suspicious.

The best thing in my opinion that you could have done to avoid suspicion would have been most probably if you had actually played the game as I had suggested earlier.

I am also unsure as to why you chose this specific moment to claim. Did you feel that my questioning of you specifically was liable to get you lynched or was it simply a coincidence that you claimed while we were discussing and you were already worried about those currently voting for you?

Regarding those who have followed along with ShiaoPi's voting, whom of those do you think are scum?

On June 11 2013 07:35 Blazinghand wrote:
Dude VA there's not gonna be a mad scum-driven voteswitch onto the claimed cop. If there was that would be hilarious and we'd win easily.

On June 11 2013 09:31 ShiaoPi wrote:
now onto ehom to mayor. I dont think that we should mayor vayne. His townplay until now has been fucking terrible. Hapa is currently locked in to get it whoch is ok, though not my first choice better than any other alteenative besides me.

On June 11 2013 09:38 ShiaoPi wrote:

you cant seriously say that your play was optimal town. If you seriously believe that you are deluded. My case was legit, its just common sense not to lynch the cop claim

On June 12 2013 00:38 Sylencia wrote:
Alright, clarification statement here:
Here is what I meant about erratic behaviour:
- BH starts out the game lurker style but then comes out guns blazing against Oats in a flamefest war which I frankly don't understand the point of. Neither of them really got their point to each other.
- Hapa attacks Vayne then goes 'nah all cool' and moves on like nothing happened. Vayne is pretty much confirmed town at this point, but at the time when it happened I had no idea what to make of it.
- Stutter's lurkiness is similar to LXI, hard to make out anything from it - this is probably the most normal thing about this town during D1.
- Vayne goes scum style posting into blue claim, weirdest play to date (I missed the hints, but apparently everyone did)
- Axle is actually making sense for once, which is the weirdest thing unless I haven't played with him long enough for him to be more normal like this?
- I don't think I've played a game with Hapa before, but he's probably the most level headed player in this group from what I've seen.

None of this actually really helps in the end with scumhunting, but it just threw me off guard to see these changes. For tonight, about the potential shot, probably best not to use it if you're not sure Hapa. If things go wrong and we're looking at an SK or something in the mix, town numbers could be at an all time low in just 1 day/night cycle.

On June 12 2013 01:15 Sylencia wrote:


How does it help when you force yourself to claim to survive? Blue roles have no power if they are dead before they get results.

On June 12 2013 01:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vayne, please never play to stay alive. All it does is make people suspicious of you and waste their time if you are town.
Play the towniest possible and you will see people starting to listen and sheep and not wanna lynch you.
Fuck blue roles man.

On June 12 2013 01:38 Sylencia wrote:


Can you not think of the game in terms of your own self preservation and about how to actually benefit town in the case you get mislynched? Getting killed/mislynched but providing town vital information at death isn't necessarily fun for you, but you would actually be trying to go towards the goal of finding all scum and eliminating them. Is that not better than reaching all the way down to 3 man mafia and having no information at all because everyone's playing for self preservation thus so much information is withheld until that point?

Anyways, I'm done for the night, I'll be back before the deadline though.

On June 12 2013 08:23 Blazinghand wrote:
and yeah don't shoot oats unless we plan on policying him. otherwise we just have to hope he's not scum i guess.

also, I'm upgrading my townread on hapa to super-mega-ultra town. there's 0 reason for him to pull that stunt as scum when given my play so far he could shoot me and when I flip town say "bah, he had it coming" and everyone would nod along. in fact, hapa, you're probably dead tonight as a result of looking so town.

On June 12 2013 09:02 Hapahauli wrote:


I'd recommend checking one of Syl/Stutters/GK

On June 12 2013 11:05 Blazinghand wrote:
hapa, you played well, except the only people in the town who deserve to fire that gun are you and me. Vayne may be town but he sure isn't the right guy to be holding the instant dayvig shot. how trusting of you to think he'll use it wisely.

On June 12 2013 11:13 Blazinghand wrote:
We're in a 13-player game, I'd be slightly surprised if we had a cop, a JK, and a vigi + doublevoting elected role. I also am fairly certain that if we did have a JK, he'd be protecting hapa, whose powers he wouldn't interfere with, as opposed to you, who is a claimed cop. You were almost certainly RBed by a scum roleblocker.

Also, your guess that our other blue is a town roleblocker is incompatible with me "not scumslipping" assuming that the thing you think I scumslipped was scum not having a roleblocker. After all, if you think you were roleblocked by a townie, then the fact that you were roleblocked doesn't prove that scum has a roleblocker, which doesn't negate my "Scumslip" (which is in fact not a scumslip).

come on man. if you're gonna speculate on night actions at least do it right. scum roleblocked you. We might have a medic or JK (on you or someone else), we might not. you didn't get a result, and now your vote is worth 2x and you can dayvig. use it wisely.

On June 12 2013 11:16 Blazinghand wrote:


if you REALLY think that what i scumslipped is that scum doesn't have an RB, and you REALLY think that you were roleblocked by a townie, I don't see why the fact that you got RBed means I didn't scumslip. Obviously i'm town, but your reasoning is faulty. You're wrong and need to be told you're wrong.

On June 12 2013 11:21 Blazinghand wrote:


zzzz stop being bad.


god do i have to be the voice of reason


also double shoot GM for being WoS

On June 12 2013 11:27 Sylencia wrote:


#OneManHoldsAllThePowers

Don't shoot randomly thanks.

On June 12 2013 11:45 Blazinghand wrote:
I fuckin dare you VA, shoot me. You know I'm town, so you won't, no matter how much you want to. COME AT ME. YOU GONNA? no you won't. no you wont.

On June 12 2013 11:48 Blazinghand wrote:


that level of thought is exactly what i'd expect from you.

On June 12 2013 11:50 Blazinghand wrote:


Clearly I'm the flamer here who needs to be kept in check by you. Yeah you keep on thinking that.

On June 12 2013 11:58 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm just trying to point out, maybe i haven't been great this game, and I get why VA might be upset, but at the same time, I've done a pretty good job of being right and trying to help. you gotta at least give me some credit on that oats

On June 12 2013 12:01 Blazinghand wrote:
whatever, time to just ignore VA

On June 12 2013 12:09 Stutters695 wrote:
Oh and if you shoot without consulting the thread I will lynch you so fast you won't even know what happened.

On June 12 2013 12:29 Stutters695 wrote:
And I'm aware you're unlynchable today, but if you take a bad shot I'll make sure you hang before this game is over. If you want to shoot someone provide good reasoning and don't just lord over the thread because you have a day vig.

On June 13 2013 00:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
why is he playing like in his previous scum game?
why is he playing differently from his town games?
Im feeling its the same as his town games currently, but I didnt read his scum game so there maybe something i missed.
Educate me please bh

On June 13 2013 01:11 Blazinghand wrote:
And whatever hapa's deceptions regarding using his shot may have been, he did them to keep the thread moving and to force reads out of people. lying about your own reads or the results of night actions (as a claimed cop) is unacceptable.

On June 13 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:
I helped this many.

Since you claimed cop d1, you've:
1. tried to lynch BH for a "scumslip"
2. sheeped Hapa onto Jampi
3. said you wanted to shoot Syl/Myself with no reasoning
4. changed to Gravity, BH, or GK because "one of the afks had to be scum" despite that I was far more inactive than GM or BH.
5. obviously lied about a cop check, said I failed your test yet haven't explained why
6. Tried to get focus away from BH/Oats/GM despite GM and BH being among your recent people you would kill.


Literally the only reason I'm not trying to lynch you right now is that you claimed cop.

On June 13 2013 02:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why are you so angry Vayne.
You claimed cause you caused everyone to think you were scum. Thats the only reason. If you keep blaming shit town, you will never get any better.

On June 13 2013 02:33 Blazinghand wrote:


many years of dota experience have made me very good at telling when people are mad.

you sir are mad

On June 13 2013 02:35 Stutters695 wrote:
So what did you hope to accomplish by lying about the cop check?

On June 13 2013 03:06 GravityMan wrote:

I have put in the work. People are ignoring it.






Sorry for the spam Corazon. Guess our dreams technically came true, btw, amirite?

On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:

No need to be snide.
There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations.

Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway.


Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really.

On June 13 2013 08:01 GravityMan wrote:

What, my dodging of the answering your question? I didn't dodge I forgot you asked.
You want to hear it exactly? I didn't want to go into detail because it's not really related to the game at all and may cause discussion outside of what we need to be talking about (ie give more useless thread-shitting-up fodder to BH).
Do you still want to hear it?

On June 14 2013 05:24 Blazinghand wrote:
like VA here's my question for you. if I get lynched and flip town, why does that make GM scum if you already think my case against him is bad?

On June 14 2013 05:29 Blazinghand wrote:


you really take every opportunity to take no responsibility at all for your actions huh

On June 14 2013 05:46 Blazinghand wrote:


can't wait to shoot me... because you think GM is going to flip town?

On June 14 2013 13:11 Sylencia wrote:
A few days wut - another way to dodge giving any sort of result?

On June 14 2013 14:30 Sylencia wrote:
And if you're planning on shooting me, tell me beforehand thx

On June 17 2013 12:26 AxleGreaser wrote:


In my mind there are always possibilities. (Some of them are there because i am bad at the game and think stuff possible/plausible that isnt.(see previous games for numerous examples))

In this game near the end I said + Show Spoiler +
even that is not all of the things that were, to me, possible.

I am sure some of the other things, are silly as they involve me guessing what Vayne was guessing was going on, and that doubles the error. Here you(the reader) try...
What for instance would Vayne do if he thought there was small chance I was scum. Yoloing shot on me and being wrong would have been absolutely game losing. Hitting my scum buddy.. could open up the connections. Or if i was town hitting person who might be hiding in plain sight and had me totally fooled might...
Once you open your mind and remember the other person making the decisions has different information and guesses about what is going on to you, I find the game becomes more complex, that is one of the reasons I used to freeze in headlights.

Note to vayne: No need to spoil anything by saying why. The point of the above is not to know why but to see why wondering is important. Of course if you want you can say why or not.