I don't like your new 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not taking it anymore' persona. It's not getting you anywhere. Tone it down, broski.
I originally had you as scum because your return to the thread when Vayne was trying to fake you out or some shit looked absolutely awful. Like, telling someone you'd lynch them after you're dead is hilariously bad. Not a scumslip I guess but it clearly showed that you were rattled. 'Survival instincts' is more a scum thing than a town thing.
Your assessment of Vayne isn't entirely unreasonable, but the aggressive fashion in which you did it feels off to me. Also if this was what you were thinking, why didn't it come up much sooner?
On June 13 2013 08:04 Stutters695 wrote: I was thinking at the hallway point of the day but given how little interaction he's had period a flip of either type really wouldn't guarantee any info. It also lets us plan around worst case scenario (3 scum team) and a mislynch today+nk+vig shot would knock us down to six total which would be endgame.
I think we can hit scum today but I'd rather plan around the worst case, especially since GK is so coinflippy.
Stutters, would you mind briefly explaining how as town you would propose I get vigie'd if it indeed is true that we'd be at endgame tomorrow in your above scenario? You mention me to be coinflippy, yet were anxious earlier to vig me anyway... This doesn't make much sense to me if indeed the situation is as dire as you describe it.
Finally, Shao was your top scumread, but that was quite a while ago. Is he still your top scumread now?
By paragraph
Because before he was mayor there wasn't anything he could do that would objectively hurt. Threatening to vig anyone for any reason except a solid scumread is retarded and incredibly anti-town and worst case could cost us the game if he actually shoots. It's simply I felt his vig threats were causing were significantly more danger to town than the possible derailing of discussion by calling him out on it.
This is why I wanted you to be viged after the flip. If it's town we re-evaluate our options and determine if it's an acceptable risk or abstain. If we hit scum then a vig on you (considering you were borderline worthless to that point ) really wouldn't have hurt us since we had to deal with you at some point.
I'm honestly not sure on him anymore, I need to brood on it some. A big portion of my case was how he handled jampis lynch, but because I was doing it over filters I didn't realize that he had voted minutes to the lynch. I'm still leaning scum on him but I'm not comfortable pushing it without looking into it more after I'm off work.
He has done a shit ton more analysis and put more effort into the game than you have. Your point regarding his reaction to jampi has some merit but that's all you've offered. His reads coincide somewhat with mine, and while on its own that isn't exactly a towntell, if he's helping me lynch BH I sure as hell am not going to turn on him and call him scum. You, Sylencia and BH are all on my list right now, and as I mentioned, Sylencia's recent posting has put him higher on the scumlist than you.
Anything else, good sir? Anyone you're going to be voting for today?
GM describes the purpose of that as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18875432 "For the record, I wasn't trying to be inflammatory necessarily with those questions, I was trying just to see what I could get BH to say and talk about regarding that topic."
Go read the above post, he wanted him to answer that why? Was it inflammatory. if there were no examples of what he wanted to talk about why the asking?
Why was he trying to lead him places? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18875124 "There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations."
prone means they have not happened yet. if they had happened you could just point to those, no need to show the thread what BH is prone to if he has not done it?
Why was he trying to lead him places? before the case existed.
Bh has in fact for Bh been very restrained. BH was even called out by hapa for being less strident than normal D1
Axle, my problem here is you are also misrepresenting everything I do. The reason I was trying to 'lead' BH to talk about what I wanted him to is the artificial restraints I put on myself. Without the ability to talk about his meta I was forced to get him to talk about how he might act in certain situations so I could then bring it up as an example. I already had in my mind the idea that he was scum here but I wanted to try and flesh out more evidence. Yes it's 'leading the witness,' but it's for a good cause: getting my scumread lynched. You can call that a scum agenda if you want, but it's not.
On June 13 2013 23:03 AxleGreaser wrote: This post is also interesting
On June 13 2013 01:56 GravityMan wrote: What makes no sense to me now is how there are only two votes cast and GoodKarma is going to be lynched. Clearly if it walks like a scum, talks like a scum, and multiple people suspect him like a scum....
BH is still just creating shit about him and Oats. All he does is counter-accuse people who 'dare' accuse him of being scum because he knows he can get away with it. He's provided no evidence as to why he thinks I'm scum. STILL.
I have no idea why people are still hesitating on this. Meta-analysis would be SO GOOD here but I promised myself I wouldn't. Someone else could take a crack at it though if they wanted. It's pretty obvious.
BH you must be absolutely furious that I'm going to get you lynched today, but 'jubs gonna jub,' amirite?
Now I'm supposed to respond to Axle 'cause he's been asking me for a while so let me get to that, and then I'm around for discussion and such.
That makes sense if you have just been discussing it in the scum QT. and now you are supposed to respond to Axle seeing as he just wont let the question go.... <<< wine that is easy to drink
I have tried to find how a towny might have been thinking that would then have them write that. <<< wine that is too hard to drink
As far as not responding to you immediately, I don't really see how that's scum indicative either. This is confiramtion bias and you are simply believing what fits your read of me. I simply said it because it was the truth, and upon looking back through the thread I realized I missed some queries you had of me. Nothing more.
Vote me if you must Axle, but I would recommend you at least look into who else in this game is scum for once, because if I eventually flip town you are going to be completely lost, especially if you think BH is town.
While the delay was concerning especially when repeated
You appeared to miss the point so I adjusted the bolding in the quote. Gravman Said: "Now I'm supposed to respond to Axle 'cause he's been asking me for a while so let me get to that, and then I'm around for discussion and such." My problem was that you referred to it as 'supposed' to the use of that word seems wrong for town player acting alone, but makes sense if it is as a result of discussion elsewhere such as in the scum QT.
Oh I see, so you think I scumslipped, huh? Ok, good luck with that. Haha you picked a point that even BH wouldn't support.
As for the 'fishing for answers,' honestly....I guess I don't have a sufficient way to prove this to you but you'll see in postgame or after I flip---you're looking way too deeply into this as though I had some mega overarching agenda here. With my questioning about his stance towards Vayne, had I been able to use meta I would shove it in his face that both Vayne AND I had beaten him in Les Mafia. I knew personally the only reason he thought at that point that Vayne was a good player was because of Les Mafia, which is a terrible reason. Scum play does not equal town play, and a SINGLE game of good play is not a good example to overall good play. I was trying to make it evident to the thread that BH's initial reasoning to calling VA a good mayoral choice was inherently flawed and his trumped up ego, thinking "well, he beat me, the best player of all time last game, so he MUST be good" is making the decisions for him. As I've pointed out, when dealing with players supposedly better than him he will suppress the egotistical nature but when dealing with anyone else it comes out to play. He uses it as it suits him.
Axle I'm willing to continue to follow your endless questions until the cows come home, but is it ever going to stop? Are you ever going to contribute to the thread in any other way? It honestly worries me because I know I'm town and I'm pretty sure you are, and this is wasting a shot ton of time that could be put to more productive use. What can I do to get you to at least look elsewhere even if you keep your vote on me?
On June 14 2013 02:15 ShiaoPi wrote: also axle is town after i filtered him. While there is sometimes lack of comittment his effort and analysis scream town to me. I mean it took my ages judt to get thriugh that filter. He has been active and helpful. he is pretty much town
GM describes the purpose of that as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18875432 "For the record, I wasn't trying to be inflammatory necessarily with those questions, I was trying just to see what I could get BH to say and talk about regarding that topic."
Go read the above post, he wanted him to answer that why? Was it inflammatory. if there were no examples of what he wanted to talk about why the asking?
Why was he trying to lead him places? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18875124 "There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations."
prone means they have not happened yet. if they had happened you could just point to those, no need to show the thread what BH is prone to if he has not done it?
Why was he trying to lead him places? before the case existed.
Bh has in fact for Bh been very restrained. BH was even called out by hapa for being less strident than normal D1
Axle, my problem here is you are also misrepresenting everything I do. The reason I was trying to 'lead' BH to talk about what I wanted him to is the artificial restraints I put on myself. Without the ability to talk about his meta I was forced to get him to talk about how he might act in certain situations so I could then bring it up as an example. I already had in my mind the idea that he was scum here but I wanted to try and flesh out more evidence. Yes it's 'leading the witness,' but it's for a good cause: getting my scumread lynched. You can call that a scum agenda if you want, but it's not.
On June 13 2013 23:03 AxleGreaser wrote: This post is also interesting
On June 13 2013 01:56 GravityMan wrote: What makes no sense to me now is how there are only two votes cast and GoodKarma is going to be lynched. Clearly if it walks like a scum, talks like a scum, and multiple people suspect him like a scum....
BH is still just creating shit about him and Oats. All he does is counter-accuse people who 'dare' accuse him of being scum because he knows he can get away with it. He's provided no evidence as to why he thinks I'm scum. STILL.
I have no idea why people are still hesitating on this. Meta-analysis would be SO GOOD here but I promised myself I wouldn't. Someone else could take a crack at it though if they wanted. It's pretty obvious.
BH you must be absolutely furious that I'm going to get you lynched today, but 'jubs gonna jub,' amirite?
Now I'm supposed to respond to Axle 'cause he's been asking me for a while so let me get to that, and then I'm around for discussion and such.
That makes sense if you have just been discussing it in the scum QT. and now you are supposed to respond to Axle seeing as he just wont let the question go.... <<< wine that is easy to drink
I have tried to find how a towny might have been thinking that would then have them write that. <<< wine that is too hard to drink
As far as not responding to you immediately, I don't really see how that's scum indicative either. This is confiramtion bias and you are simply believing what fits your read of me. I simply said it because it was the truth, and upon looking back through the thread I realized I missed some queries you had of me. Nothing more.
Vote me if you must Axle, but I would recommend you at least look into who else in this game is scum for once, because if I eventually flip town you are going to be completely lost, especially if you think BH is town.
While the delay was concerning especially when repeated
You appeared to miss the point so I adjusted the bolding in the quote. Gravman Said: "Now I'm supposed to respond to Axle 'cause he's been asking me for a while so let me get to that, and then I'm around for discussion and such." My problem was that you referred to it as 'supposed' to the use of that word seems wrong for town player acting alone, but makes sense if it is as a result of discussion elsewhere such as in the scum QT.
Oh I see, so you think I scumslipped, huh? Ok, good luck with that. Haha you picked a point that even BH wouldn't support.
As for the 'fishing for answers,' honestly....I guess I don't have a sufficient way to prove this to you but you'll see in postgame or after I flip---you're looking way too deeply into this as though I had some mega overarching agenda here. With my questioning about his stance towards Vayne, had I been able to use meta I would shove it in his face that both Vayne AND I had beaten him in Les Mafia. I knew personally the only reason he thought at that point that Vayne was a good player was because of Les Mafia, which is a terrible reason. Scum play does not equal town play, and a SINGLE game of good play is not a good example to overall good play. I was trying to make it evident to the thread that BH's initial reasoning to calling VA a good mayoral choice was inherently flawed and his trumped up ego, thinking "well, he beat me, the best player of all time last game, so he MUST be good" is making the decisions for him. As I've pointed out, when dealing with players supposedly better than him he will suppress the egotistical nature but when dealing with anyone else it comes out to play. He uses it as it suits him.
Axle I'm willing to continue to follow your endless questions until the cows come home, but is it ever going to stop? Are you ever going to contribute to the thread in any other way? It honestly worries me because I know I'm town and I'm pretty sure you are, and this is wasting a shot ton of time that could be put to more productive use. What can I do to get you to at least look elsewhere even if you keep your vote on me?
Find one of your scum buddies and lynch him?
Alright Axle, I've changed my mind. I can see you're not going to be of any assistance today so I'm done with you. If you choose to continue to push me, so be it, but I will not be contributing to the discussion any more. I have been nothing but forthcoming in every answer I've given you and tried to help you see that I'm not scum but since you absolutely refuse to believe it, and seem to refuse to want to do anything else at all, I'm not going to waste my time that is better spent getting scum lynched. If you choose to follow another line of questioning at the same time I will gladly participate but I am finished entertaining your ideas about me.
On June 14 2013 02:55 Blazinghand wrote: Hello friends. I'm back from dinner and ready to party. I suppose a VA lynch isn't possible today because he'll pardon himself; that's okay, we can still lynch GM.
##unvote ##vote GM
Read properly, he is lynchimmune for this cycle. If you are ready to party tell me why GM is scum
usual stuff, lying, weird questions, not hunting scum. I like that point about him prodding me into shitting up the thread. very clever.
Not hunting scum. HAHAHA And you have been.
I dare you BH, get me lynched today. See where it gets you. I'm out for a while. I've already spent an exhausting amount of time defending myself to Axle, I'm not getting into a shitfest with BH himself. If you want to let him sway you while I'm gone then go right ahead. I'll be back before deadline.
No, you know what, wait. How DARE you say I haven't been hunting scum. What the actual fuck. I have interacted with everybody in this damn thread for days, given reads, and been completely transparent with all of my thoughts since revealing myself, including those thoughts I had BEFORE revealing myself. What the FUCK have YOU done?
If you guys allow yourselves to be swayed by BH in the last 7 or so hours of this day, you guys will overtake the Les Mafia town as worst lynching ever.
On June 14 2013 03:09 Blazinghand wrote: I think GM relying on things like the fact that he was roleplaying or whatever isn't a real explanation. Also, him talking about what he's "supposed" to do isn't scumslip, but rather an indicator of scum mindset. Although anyone could say that, it's more likely that scum says that than town because the idea of "supposed" to do something, of needing to fit into a role, isn't what town's about. It's not damning evidence like AG things it is-- but it is evidence. Also GM's decision not to interact with Axle after having his arguments shot down pretty hard is a pretty classic way of opting out of legitimate discourse and fits with his weird questioning of me during D1. GM's goal here isn't to be townie, it's to appear townie, to go through the motions that townies go through.
Right, because it was that ONE final question he asked that did it for me. Not the 500 I answered before.
Weak man, fucking weak. I hate dealing with you in these games so much; I really wish I didn't blow my goddamn cover so I didn't have to deal with you like this.
K actually have to go now. I'm not even going to read this thread from my phone until I get back or it's going to make me rage. I'll be back before lynch and catch up then.
Funny, I was going to post some music myself as it popped on my playlist in the car.
I realize I may not be around until after deadline as I have to watch the rest of our recorded Masterchef from last night after my guy goes to sleep so I'll try to pop in and out sporadically.
BH, you say I only get angry in my single scum game, huh? Have we forgotten what happens when you base all of your ideas on someone's play from only one game? Tell me, did I or did I not get angry when you were scum and I was town in Carnival Cruise, too?
Shiao I'm honestly shocked that BH showing up, giving a couple weak reads and then fucking off is enough for you to unvote. What a shining example of towniness, that BH.
VA, if you show up, I'd like to make a request of you. If you still don't have any super strong townreads by the end of today to pass off the mayorship to, and if I am set to be lynched, I want you to shoot me before the day is out so you can get BH lynched.
There is absolutely no way in hell BH is town; this is not just an example of two townies going at it. I am 100% sure of this.
VA do NOT shoot me immediately. That gives BH enough time to talk himself out of a lynch. Give it an hour or so before the lynch.
I think I already see how this is going down, too. Since Oats is Oats and for some inexplicable reason thinks BH is town, he will be voting me, then scum Sylencia will be safe to jump on the wagon too and vote me. It's going to come down to Shiao and Stutters, and I don't know whether Stutters is scum or not.
I don't even think a 1 for 1 trade is optimal for us right now either but I just don't think I can convince enough people in here otherwise.
On June 14 2013 05:22 VayneAuthority wrote: If one of you gets lynched, I am shooting the other after immediately if the lynched is town, I think we can agree on that.
Deal. I'll have to accept the 1 for 1 right now even if it may not be quite optimal...thought it would be better if you lynch BH first so the shot doesn't have to go to waste in that case but yeah.
On June 14 2013 05:26 Blazinghand wrote: or if GM flips town, does that make his case against me somehow good? Like, basically what you're saying is you aren't gonna comment on the merits of my case against GM (or vice versa) and just shoot the other one?
The point is my cases of had complete merit against you all game. Axle makes a point in that in order to smurf I was forced to be slightly misleading but he discounts the town perspective of all that I've done. You haven't offered anything that hasn't been instantly refuted. You have still done NOTHING.
Oh wait, you don't like this? Afraid all of a sudden?
What's wrong with your case BH?
The point is I don't think you're 100% scum. I'd rather lynch VA today, but that's simply not possible. And what happens if I get lynched and flip town, and it turns out that somehow you're town and VA just shoots you saying "I guess BH was actually town, he must be right"
the point is, VA can't just do that without commenting on the objective merits of both our cases. he can't say the only thing holding him back from shooting either of us is the fact that (cases not withstanding) he's not sure if our cases are town or scum motivated.
VA is basically confirmed scum.
I hate to consider this but now I have to think. He is certainly not 'confirmed' anything, but you have a point.
The fact remains that I don't believe we're both town though. I can even tell by the way people have voted today. If we were both town then scum would be completely content to sit back and let the sparks fly but there have been other topics of conversation all day, and not a whole lot of blind sheeping of either of us. Because I know that I am town that still makes me believe that you must be scum.
On June 14 2013 05:29 VayneAuthority wrote: The fact that there are people voting along the lines of GM/BH gives me good hope that one of you is scum though. If neither of you was scum there wouldn't be as much discussion and they would just let us implode. So I feel pretty good about one of you being scum/3rd party
scum wouldn't be able to distinguish "3p vs townie" from "townie vs townie" so really you only feel good about one of us being scum. and even so that's shit logic.
lol apparently VA and I have the same shit logic. Guess we're both scum and GG, right?
Oh and by the way Vayne, Hapa's top scumread D1 was jampi. Just sayin'. He's good but this game what we saw of him he didn't really get us anywhere. Sheeping dead people doesn't always work. If people had sheeped BH in Les Mafia they still would have lost because he though GK was scum.
Oh wait, you don't like this? Afraid all of a sudden?
What's wrong with your case BH?
The point is I don't think you're 100% scum. I'd rather lynch VA today, but that's simply not possible. And what happens if I get lynched and flip town, and it turns out that somehow you're town and VA just shoots you saying "I guess BH was actually town, he must be right"
the point is, VA can't just do that without commenting on the objective merits of both our cases. he can't say the only thing holding him back from shooting either of us is the fact that (cases not withstanding) he's not sure if our cases are town or scum motivated.
VA is basically confirmed scum.
I hate to consider this but now I have to think. He is certainly not 'confirmed' anything, but you have a point.
The fact remains that I don't believe we're both town though. I can even tell by the way people have voted today. If we were both town then scum would be completely content to sit back and let the sparks fly but there have been other topics of conversation all day, and not a whole lot of blind sheeping of either of us. Because I know that I am town that still makes me believe that you must be scum.
This is definitely shit logic, given that half the thread is lurking and VA has basically been sitting on his ass.
You have zero right to say anything about lurking. You have done dick all for most of the game. Yes VA hasn't done shit either but you have no right to call him out on that.
So tell me, did we cook up that shit logic together in the scum QT?
As far as faking the claim that's a stupid gamble to take as scum and from what you know of VA's scumgame, isn't he better than that?
On June 14 2013 05:40 VayneAuthority wrote: yawn, BH is the reason I don't give a shit about this game. He's just unpleasant to play with. Can't wait to shoot him tbh.
I would say just fucking do it, but that doesn't seem like a good idea since the thread is so divided atm. I at least would want to show people they were wrong about me before shooting him, or give them the chance to see that for themselves and lynch him.
EPT
