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My core is charged and I am ready to determine who is scum. It seems this game may prove to be quite difficult to find a solution to, espcially if we look solely towards active posters who appear to care about what happens within the town.
As such, I am confused as to the suspicions that people appear to have towards me. Is there a problem with the methodology I have been using throughout this game? Will firing a bullet through my positronic brain or central processing units make it easier to solve the game? If so then I welcome it, however I would argue that said bullet is probably better used on those that we are either sure are scum or are proving exceedingly difficult to read due to lack of activity.
I am curious overall as to why my actions towards this Hapahauli earlier in the game appear to be misrepresented by the members of the town I am attempting to protect. I believed I made it clear that since I had no idea as to his credentials or what he was capable of, I could not trust him until he showed himself capable, which, as the day progressed, he appeared to.
It could be my advanced intellect granted to me by my creator shining through, however this seems exceedingly simple to me.
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On June 12 2013 02:15 Hapahauli wrote:@ Gravity Man Can you once and for all clear up your game history with me? Show nested quote +I am curious overall as to why my actions towards this Hapahauli earlier in the game appear to be misrepresented by the members of the town I am attempting to protect. I believed I made it clear that since I had no idea as to his credentials or what he was capable of, I could not trust him until he showed himself capable, which, as the day progressed, he appeared to. You just mentioned that you didn't know who I was when you started playing this game, however that's a patent lie. You even used your own game-history with me to justify a town-read with me earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:34 GravityMan wrote:
Given our past history, I believe the following represents how I view the above post:
##Mayor Vote: Hapahauli
Note that I am aware of the issue of the detective claim from this VayneAuthority. Would you be certain that electing him would grant him some form of protection allowing him to make use of his role? This also assumes he can make use of his role well.
Secondly, I'm very dissatisfied with your scum-hunting contributions this game. You've pitched yourself as scum-hunter extraordinaire, yet the most analysis we've gotten from you is a "case" on Sylencia that almost entirely justifies killing him based on him lurking rather than actually being scummy.
I would be glad to.
I am not lying about having never before played a game of mafia alongside you or against you. I was referring to our past history within this current game, rather than another. When I said 'given our past history' I was referring to my earlier hesitation in trusting you with the mayoral title, but, as I recently mentioned, you adequately proved yourself to me through your activities throughout the day and as scuh, I was content to vote for you.
I apologize for not living up to your idea of what my contributions should be, though I am curious as to how you think I have done no analysis aside from my recent post regarding this Sylencia.
Have you forgotten multiple posts from earlier in the game?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415754¤tpage=16#317
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=415754¤tpage=20#400
It concerns me that it appears to you that I am not contributing simply because I have not written multiple cases on people. As for what you view as a case on Sylencia based on his lurking, there are valid points within that point to him being a member of the mafia, however I am hesitant because he himself pointed out that he is often 'lynchbait,' that is, someone who appears scummy but is actually town. Is his assessment of himself made in truth? Does this in fact happen to him in multiple games?
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I find it somewhat distressing that some people who play the game of mafia make little to no active contributions whatsoever but there is often little I can do other than grin and bear it, or hope to remove them from our midst with a lynch or a vigilante shot.
These may not be good lynches or shots but until action is taken it is nearly impossible to learn anything about this type of person. I have come to learn that people are content to play the game in their own way. Take the master of Oats, for example.
Now, if you are dissatisfied with the way that I am playing the game, you are welcome to instigate proceedings against me if you feel that is the best course of action. I would posit that there are many worse offenders of the specific transgression by which you appear to be bothered.
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Ah, the perceived need to defend myself has distracted me from the task at hand and I have forgotten to pursue my own course of action.
Hapahauli, if you do not know the answer to my question regarding this Sylencia, perhaps someone else does. In the meantime, I will be moving on as time is quickly winding down and there is much action yet to be taken ex noctis.
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On June 12 2013 03:18 Hapahauli wrote:
Hmmm. I need to think about Shaio a bit more. His last scum-game isn't as passive as I had remembered it.
Will any future case you may be devising be solely based on this last scum-game and comparing it to this one?
I certainly would not mind discussing with you if you felt there was something within this game you felt might direct us to him being mafioso.
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As I have just read through this ShiaoPi, I have come to a similar conclusion to you in that I do not believe he is scummy, though one section of one post of his stood out:
early game I am not too active usually, just how it is. Day 1s always are a bit tedious to get the ball roling. did try to do it with prodding vayne.
Here he makes it seem as though his legitimate case on this VayneAuthority was nothing more than a way to get first-day discussion started. I am not sure why he would feel the need to downplay his earlier contribution unless he was for some reason worried that his assault of a pre-claimed cop would get him into trouble. Of course I also realize that he may be simply referring to his case as something that created discussion rather than an attempt to create discussion by making a case. Either way it struck me as being odd.
The rest of his filter appears full of genuine attempts to divine alignment from other players while being overall unconcerned with the views of others regarding himself, a decidedly town-aligned trait. I agree that ShiaoPi should not be a concern based on his activity within this game, unless you have something to add from past games, Hapahauli?
As for scum-reads, there is one I am currently working on besides this Sylencia; I will expand upon it soon.
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Two warnings that popped up in my HUD display as I was working on a read that I feel I should share:
On June 12 2013 02:33 Stutters695 wrote:
As always my weekends suck ass sorry. I'll be back in full force tonight.
I am well aware that the human population of this website who play mafia games hail from different locations around the planet, but is Monday part of the weekend in any specific country? I believe this Stutters said he was busy 'catching up,' but posted nothing of any use and it appeasr to be well past the weekend. How long must we tolerate activity such as this from various players?
I have notice that this Axlegreaser appears to play this game much like I do. Is he another DWN in disguise I wonder? He asks many questions of people and is content to speculate on behavioural analysis as well as the general ideas and heuristics behind the game of mafia, yet offers very little in reads himself. I believe his last scum read offered was ShiaoPi though I cannot honestly be sure. As of right now I have no idea who he believes to be mafia. I do enjoy conversing with him as mentioned earlier so I would be pleased if he were to engage me.
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Upon further consideration, I will wait to post the read I have analyzed until right before or right after the night's deadline; I have not decided which. It is my period of highest activity and in the mean time since activity is low people can choose to comment what I have written so far or not. I will be present.
I am not altogether concerned about having my functions ended by being shot by mafia, though I would prefer if this Hapahauli decides to shoot me with his temporary firearm that he at least inform me ahead of time so that I may post before I cease function and assist the town in their future tasks as much as possible.
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I am currently under such a heavy load that even my core and central processor are having difficulty accommodating to the stress.
I would rather be able to fully engage the thread at the time of my posting and I am not certain of my ability to be able to do that presently. If you so desire I will post my read before the deadline is upon us; until then you must either make your decision, wait, or discuss that which has already been brought up. As a human being you have the choice and free will to do any of those things.
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On June 12 2013 05:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Because there is literally no objective purpose to you with-holding your read. Who cares if you can't "fully engage the thread at the time of posting"... that should not be a factor. Post your reads, let us discuss them, and then you can "engage" later.
The point I am trying to make is that I will not be around to discuss them in full as I would like to, and consider the subject of my read and what information I will be trying to express to the thread, I certainly would like to be. Considering the subject of my read and what I believe I have learned about him in this game thus far, I do not believe his reaction will be...favorable, and the last thing I want is a disruption of thread direction to a degree where it becomes unproductive for the town.
On June 12 2013 05:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Or if you want motivation, consider this my intent to shoot you unless you post your reads right now.
From what I believe I have learned about you, you are certainly a far better player than to actually destroy me; this is what people refer to as a 'bluff.' While under general circumstances I have no problem 'calling' said bluff, the benefits to the town in me posting likely outweigh any perceived personal benefits I would have by waiting to post something complete.
The 'too long; did not read' version of my post, as it were:
I believe the man with Blazing hands to be scum.
He is far too content to take on those who are unlikely to be able to accuse him in return.
The displays of his ego given so far would seemingly belie that the mayoral campaign should have been perfect for him yet he is quick to back down. His reasoning is the same 'survival instinct' that this VayneAuthority seems to give yet different. I believe that Blazinghand is in actuality worried here about a power grab being seen as a scum trait, much as I was worried about you in the early game.
His relentless attack of the master of Oats seems to ebb and flow with the tide of the thread; that is, he only attempts to waste the town's time by attacking him and causing chaos (as he knows the Oats will react) when it is convenient for scum. Any time a clear mislynch target is not in the crosshairs of the town, jampidampi as example, he is content with thread direction; the exception to this being his quick flip in opinion as jampidampi returned to the thread.
He has had zero useful contribution to the thread beyond what I have outlined above. If he has other suspects in this game I am not sure as to whom they might be. On this he promised more activity tomorrow, however.
I would like to make it known that initially I thought he might be a member of the town until he continued to post and I realized how his perception of himself (or at the very least, the mask he wears so that people perceive as an egotistical being) affects his play.
I am not providing specific proof and quotes here as you wished for a version that I would be able to provide currently. It is my sincere hope that it benefits the town. Make of it what you will.
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I am disappointed. It seems as though the member of this town are looking to attach blame to the fact that no scum have been caught yet, and due to me being unable to find any thus far, it seems I am set to be destroyed. If this is how it must be, however, then it must be, and as such I will spend my last minutes with you exactly as I have been all game; expressing my thoughts and giving what reads I can.
Some things to note:
I am unconvinced in this Blazinghand's act while seemingly at death's door. I feel I am able to read this Hapahauli quite well at this point in the game, and to shoot someone without any warning whatsoever is not a very mayorly thing to do. The false shot was extremely obvious to me, though admittedly an interesting gambit. However, if the false shot was obvious to me, could it not also have been obvious to a player such as this Blazinghand who could then act in the most town-aligned way possible before his death? He has nothing to lose at this point even if the shot were real because were he actually shot and his aligned were revealed to be red, the players in this game would be likely to ignore his final posts as they could be likened to poisoned wine in two goblets. He still gives no reasoning for his reads even when asked yet people conveniently ignore this.
Blazinghand is content to have me destroyed, of course, but an interesting fact to point out is this Blazinghand's mention that he would rather have me hang from a tree than simply be shot with a bullet, thus wasting one of any town's strongest tools, and an entire day on the wrong target. Yes, the mayor bullet is a strong tool as well, and any member of the mafia would enjoying obtaining it, though perhaps the mafia are content to have it wasted here instead? I am unsure.
I am disappointed in general with this Hapahauli for his reasoning to shoot me. He states that I have drawn no conclusions and not contributed yet I have repeatedly given him examples of my contributions and attempting to divine alignments which seemingly go ignored, as few people comment on them. yet I have pointed out this Blazinghand as scum. I have seen no concrete evidence from anyone in this game thus far as to why I should be destroyed, yet everyone is content to do so. This is disconcerting and I get the feeling (what feeling I am capable of, anyway) that scum may very well be in control of this game despite this Hapahauli being our town-aligned mayor.
There are approximately 70 minutes until I will cease to function if this Hapahauli shoots me at 10 minutes before the deadline. I will be present until that time, thus if there is anything in specific you would like from me before that time, please do not hesitate to ask.
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It seems my sentence has been passed already and my imminent destruction does not matter to anyone, nor does determining my thoughts before I am destroyed.
With this attitude I believe that our town is in a great deal of trouble.
I wish you all the best of luck and perhaps we will meet again in another time and place.
+ Show Spoiler +If someone is to absorb my powers after I'm destroyed, just know they are very easy to use. You can make objects fall up instead of down.
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On June 12 2013 10:03 Hapahauli wrote:
Nah. Really just don't have the info I'd like. Treat tomorrow like a double lynch is better.
Well I must admit I either cannot read you as well as I thought I once could, or I convinced you.
I am honestly not sure which of those two it is.
You say you do not have the information you want; I am aware revealing said lack of information would be counter-productive, but if you are indeed assassinated like so many good leaders tend to be, we may left in the dark on a useful heuristic.
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On June 12 2013 09:34 Stutters695 wrote:
Also I see hapa plans on shooting GM, I haven't really filtered his shit yet but Hapas reasoning makes sense and I'd be way more comfortable with that than GK.
This concerns me greatly.
What reasoning do you speak of Stutters? This Hapahauli's reasoning was minimal at best and falsified at worst.
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On June 12 2013 10:17 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 10:09 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 09:34 Stutters695 wrote:
Also I see hapa plans on shooting GM, I haven't really filtered his shit yet but Hapas reasoning makes sense and I'd be way more comfortable with that than GK. This concerns me greatly. What reasoning do you speak of Stutters? This Hapahauli's reasoning was minimal at best and falsified at worst. GM is wrong but yeah stutters it would be nice to hear specifically what you thought was good/bad
Why?
You have not offered any reasoning to many of your statements all game.
Why am I wrong?
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On June 12 2013 10:25 Blazinghand wrote:
hapahauli's reasoning was fine. I agree with it (or at least the part where you're asking weird questions of me and making a show of participating without hunting scum). The issue is that you can't just say "GM shoudl be shot huehuehue hapa is right" and not explain what you agree/disagree with.
Your point that stutter's post is bad/unhelpful/scummy is correct. Your idea that you shouldn't be shot tonight is not.
also the idea that i haven't offered _any_ reason to _many_ of my statements _all_ game is interesting. It's like you want to say I never offer reasoning but you know that's literally false so you try to make some kind of half-assed point. get your shit together GM
Let me rephrase it then.
You fail to offer sufficient reasoning to a great deal of strong stances that you take until badgered endlessly. I believe you promised reasoning as to why I should be shot or at the very least you told this Hapahauli that you'd be looking into my filter.
Lack of a better shot is not a reason to shoot me, and once again, I have shown how Hapahauli's reasoning as to why I appear scummy is false. If you do not like the questions I was asking you in order to divine your alignment, then, I believe the colloquial phrase is: "tough shit?" It certainly made it easier for me to determine how it is you play and how your perceived view of yourself influences your playstyle.
There is yet to be postulated one concrete objective reason as to why I am scummy. By anyone. Saying that I have not contributed is purely subjective as I believe I have and again, I have shown as such in previous posts.
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On June 12 2013 10:36 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 08:46 Hapahauli wrote:
Alright, consider this my intent to shoot Gravity Man.
I will submit my kill 10 minutes before the deadline.
Stutters and GK both deserve extra days, and shooting either of them is a pure coinflip given their inactivity. Both of them are very readable if they post, and with or without my presence in the town, I trust that people will be able to read them in future days. For those suspicious of Syl, the same could be argued.
GM has been active and has posted, but comes across as attempting to contribute rather than actually contributing. Furthermore he's been trumping up his scum-hunting contributions which are lackluster at best. Even the few players he does analyze, he never takes any concrete stances or even draws actual conclusions about them in his cases. This post in particular. I still haven't gotten to check out his posting but this is big to me since I won't have time before the flip. He demonstrates a real reason for wanting to vig tonight and is aware of the difference between a coinflip vig and a useful one.
This is not a reason for you.
It is Hapahauli's reasoning which, once again, I have proven false. I wonder I have obtained a glitch somewhere in my system as I find myself repeating my own words fairly often.
Simple because this Hapahauli believes my scumhunting to be insufficient does not make it so; the lack of caught mafia is on the collective head of the entire town. As such I will share the blame but not shoulder it. As for not drawing conclusions, not only are there other players in this game who have played similarly to me in that respect (has this Axlegreaser drawn any conclusions? Have you, Stutters?), but not a few hours before this very post, I concluded Blazinghand to be mafia.
Hapahauli, since you currently lead this town, I believe it may be your responsibility to show them in what way your reasoning is in fact, correct regarding myself?
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On June 12 2013 10:47 Blazinghand wrote:
wow i actually personally dislike GM now
I believe the earlier colloquial phrase I used applies here as well.
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On June 12 2013 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyone down for a 420 YOLO #SWAG shot on Stutters?
Considering by 'anyone' you'd be referring to the three or so people present and as such would not have the consent of all of the town, I'd advise against it.
At the same time I did elect you to represent us, and if you feel that is the best course of action, you may take it as it was given to you by right. Were I in your position I would not shoot.
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Why are so many people showing their faces in the thread just as the night is about to end?
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EPT
