[M][N] Les Mafia - Page 87

On May 21 2013 06:16 goodkarma wrote:
So I'm around. If someone can summarize the casepoints standing against me I would appreciate it.

I'll start by trying to fetch out Spicy's stuff, since that seemed to be a piece of it.

On May 21 2013 06:27 Stutters695 wrote:
More importantly, what do you make of these NKs Vayne?

On May 20 2013 08:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:


yeah i do. I think he's overemphasizing meta way too much and holds double standards. Take me and WoS for example.



Here he says that WoS is scum because he's more sure of himself now, than when he was when he was town, hence he's scum. If WoS was more wishy washy like he was in previous games, gf would be ok with that according to his own logic.



Here he says im scum for basically the same reason as WoS, in that I'm not acting like i did in my previous game where I had better reads earlier on.

If this is where his analysis ends that would be at least consistent. He goes on later to state that being wishy washy is a complete scum trait. He's not consistent with his reasonings. Also he claims that in the newbie game i had suspects and evolving opinions. My reading on WoS can easily be considered an evolving opinion. One of my posts about WoS started off claiming he was scum but then explained he got better. How is that not an evolving opinion. If i called WoS scum first, and then in a second post said eh nvm, how would that be different.



These thoughts and the ones i've had on him previously make me believe he's scum.

On May 20 2013 11:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:


I agree but didn't it seem over the top scummy, like no rational scum player would play it like that.

On May 21 2013 06:27 Stutters695 wrote:
More importantly, what do you make of these NKs Vayne?

On May 21 2013 06:44 goodkarma wrote:


When doing meta-analysis, different people behave differently. Should WoS change his playstyle one game from being wishy-washy and apologetic (as town) to being very sure of himself here, that's something that needs to be looked into. In general, when you see someone discussing having 100% certainty this guy's town and this guy's scum, it can be an indicator of privileged knowledge that only scum would be privy to. On the other hand, when you have someone like BH who's usually very assertive have little opinion on anyone, that can be a scumtell. In short, different people behave differently. I work with general scumtells for sure, but I also keep in consideration how people typically behave for both their town and scumgames.


And then you discuss how your reading on WoS evolved over time, when you really didn't discuss him at all except when mixing up his name in your vote post... I really don't know what to make of your posting to date. On the one hand, it is super-scummy. On the other, it is very hard for me to believe that a scum would be so insanely careless. But then again, we have this post from you:



So you have some awareness of how you could come off townie by looking insanely scummy (if that makes any sense...). I feel like I'm looking at your filter and I'm WIFOM-ing myself. The simplest explanation is that you're a newbie and as scum you would be less likely to have derped as hard as you have. And I'll stick with that assessment for now. I would really like to know what other scumreads you have other than myself and hopefully BH.

On May 18 2013 23:23 Spicydinosaur wrote:


s0Lstice's filter comes up very scummy for me. He started off by posting about his meta and pointing out that he was never scum.



I get them some people like to use a lot of meta to play but the fact that he has always been town is irrelevant as every new game could be the first time you get scum.

He also throws some spam in a number of his posts like this:



I've noticed that there is a lot of spam in many guy's post so this might not be such a big deal. The thing that really bugs me is this post:



He keeps pushing this reliance on meta and I find it extremely scummy. He firsts points out that he has never rolled scum, then says that if you roll scum for the first time, you are going to have a bad time. His posts can be summed up in a nice simple sentence: I have never rolled scum and if I did I would be playing so much shittier that it would be obvious.

His later posts seem to then abandon mention of meta and actually really focus on reading other players. He didn't jump on the vayne bandwagon like a lot of others did. I did like his read on goodkarma and did a good job of calling him out on his back and forth thoughts of jarjar.

As of now I'd say he's not scum. I really dislike his meta play style but his subsequent posts have gotten better.

On May 18 2013 09:55 Dandel Ion wrote:
fuck marv is probably actually town
sad day

iamp totally confirmed town because

vayne was all the rage a few pages back, but he seems to actually believe in what he says (this is consistent with a dude that builds bt and qss as a core, lol), so I dunno, I feel like he would care more about how he looks and adapt (to tl) as scum
I have like nothing to base this on, but I mean, the dude called somebody else a newbie when he just finished playing in an actual newbie game days ago.
I find not giving a fuck generally a townie thing to do. I'm fine with waiting for whatever nightaction information the dude thinks he needs to actually play the game for now.
( I still have no idea what he's doing though )

I really like how blazing reacted to vayne, and I pretty much agree with this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972&currentpage=17#330
Although I am hesitant about the shooting part, but I can't and won't tell you why! Best reasoning NA.

I'm mainly interested in lynching jjd and gk atm.

What has been said about jdd has been said, and he hasn't said anything.

GK because his case on stutters (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972&currentpage=16#320) is based on a serious misrepresentation of stutters' post, trying to point out a inconsistency in stutters posting that was not actually one. (stutters pointed out he's never been scum, gk somehow turned that into an inconsistency regarding meta)
I don't think stutters responded yet and I usually prefer people doing that before i butt in, but I am a realist and it's stutters, so nope.

In total, it just looks way too much like an "easy" case scum loves to do on an inactive/bad (or both!) townie and it gives me the jeebers.


Rest is variying shades of null + Show Spoiler +

aaaaand that should be about it.

Okay, going to sleep. Toodles.

On May 21 2013 06:59 Dandel Ion wrote:
Why would a team around scum-BH shoot iamperfection, directly implicating him further?

Basically, that assumes that either a SK shot iamp, or he's getting bussed all the way. Otherwise it just makes no sense.

On May 21 2013 06:58 VayneAuthority wrote:


Dandel ion: Went through DL first and found this post. iamp confirmed town, iamp died tonight. Wanted to lynch JJD and gk.

If we ever lynch DL and he shows up mafia, GK/JJD town and marv also confirmed town in my opinion. If we lynch DL and im wrong and he shows up town, then unfortunately this post isnt as useful. Suspicious post that should be taken into account either way.

He soft defends Grush and advocates a lynch on WoS, also worth taking into account.

thats pretty much the only substance in his filter to go off of, still like this lynch based off what he has said and crossing it with the night killings

onto my next suspect

On May 18 2013 06:56 s0Lstice wrote:
Marv-

his pressure seems hesitant/blendy. it's also based on flawed logic. if I was scum, I'd be more likely to be afraid of my meta, as this would be my first scum game. so, because I point it out as part of my introductory post...this makes me suspicious?

his tone makes me think he hasn't even convinced himself. to be fair though, hopping on Vayne's quick wagon is just as important.

combined, it's not a huge lead, but right here right now on a day 1, i'm cool voting him for now

On May 18 2013 14:04 s0Lstice wrote:
All the same...do you know what I would do if I was in Marv's shoes? After all these games, the victories, the early NKs as town, the high win percentage as scum...with that Hapa case floating around out there, and (this is important) people around me itching to lynch me as the game goes on regardless of how I've played because as town I'm so rarely alive late into games..

I might be just fine with artificially tantruming, simply to have something to point to when the inevitable 'why is marv still alive' questions start to pop up.

I'm not saying this is definitely what was going on, but I'm keeping it around to chew on for awhile.

Oh and Marv improves town atmosphere no matter what his alignment is.

On May 21 2013 07:11 marvellosity wrote:
Vayne, you realise in your first quote, s0lstice was addressing me, but talking about someone else?

On May 18 2013 23:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
And where the fuck is Rayn, I was looking forward to his play this game---it is completely unlike him to be this lurky and I don't like it one bit, especially given the fact that he has seen no pressure whatsoever for his lurkiness and yet the more active lurkers like JJD and sputnik have been threatened for not much more.