Fuck everything else going on in my life. I'm going to make time for this.
\in
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
ghost_403
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Fuck everything else going on in my life. I'm going to make time for this. \in | ||
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Totally panicked. It's all good. | ||
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Two quick thoughts. First of all, this is a Greymist game. Don't rely on mechanics or power roles or anything else. At the end of the day, the only way to make sure that the town wins the game is to really rely on scum hunting. Focus on finding scum, don't get too caught up in the mechanics. Secondly, I think I agree with Phagga, that we need some sort of plan to start working together to identify all of the pieces on the board. His plan of claiming before the lynch is pretty solid and comes at no loss to us. Sure, the mafia are going to mess with our plans, but there's only so much that they can do. I would like to start working together on that so that we fix the information imbalance; *hushed voice* they already know where we are. Lastly (totally lied about the two quick thoughts), I'm lynching Marv Day 3 if he's not dead at that point. @marv <3 And numbah four (I worship chaos), I have a MS of 4. | ||
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On May 15 2013 11:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Can someone explain to me how finding the angels will help us win the game? We're assuming that the angels have to be physically close to the other players in order to use their night actions. Someone speculated earlier that town PRs would have similar mechanics. Not dying at night >> dying at night. But, you're right. Focus on finding scum. You have any thoughts on the other players so far? | ||
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Also, lmao @ marv for voting me for the same reason he voted me last time we played. I flipped town. I'm going to read the thread again and see if anything sticks out. | ||
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And people wonder why I don't post. A brief retort at Marv and Dec: Only an idiot would completely ignore the mechanics of a game. I chimed in my two cents, and then I was off to scum hunt. Unfortunately, it seems that no one is around whenever I'm here. Your reasons for voting me are terrible. Not a good sign, haven't decided what to make of that. I'm not impressed by Dec's play, but I might just be mad at him for voting me. I really don't like Oats play this game: plans are good, plans are bad, I'm on board, I feel like he's all over the place. I can't be arsed to look into his meta, otherwise I would lynch him for begin all over the place and generally unhelpful. BH's vouching for his meta is stopping me from voting him at the moment. I trust his read, haven't thought too much about his alignment. I'm not happy with Vivax's play, but I'm never happy with Vivax's play. I really don't like this post: + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2013 05:17 Vivax wrote: Show nested quote + On May 16 2013 03:40 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: On May 15 2013 22:42 deconduo wrote: Can an Angel's movespeed be reduced to 0 if enough people are looking at it? If this is the case, it makes a good argument for gathering in the middle with everyone looking outwards. If they can't reach us they can't kill us. But wouldn't mkfuba have to actively respond to the PM to participate in the game? I wouldn't say lynch him outright, but I'm a little suspicious. Let's see how the day goes though. My only red leaning read at this point is Vivax, whose filter after game start seems to be weak counterarguments to a fairly solid plan. His last post (the big one) also references the fact that with everyone moving at max speed, it would be easier to discern who is who. After explicitly saying that by learning this, Angels can figure out who is dangerous and vulnerable. I feel as if he is looking for this information for this reason. ##Vote: Vivax This is a scumslip, the host explicitly said that it's possible that the angels know our movement speeds already. You showing this level of security as to immediately call me scum in spite of that fact, is proof that you are either not reading the thread with your due diligence, or scum with the information that angels don't know our movement speed, given your overall play I'm strongly leaning on the latter. I'm expecting your explanation for this, and I want reads from you on every player who posted something substantial in the thread. It seems passionate and poorly thought out. He's not trying to figure out Sentinel's alignment, or really thinking about what's going on; he's trying to push him onto the defensive and start an easy lynch. It kind of looks like he immediately dropped it, but it is kind of hard to tell at this point in the game. Until someone convinces me that leaving Vivax in game is a good idea, ##vote vivax | ||
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On May 16 2013 09:07 marvellosity wrote: I'm not really happy with this post at all, but I don't know if it's because you're scum or because you're not at a level I'd hope from you. I'd say expect, but ya know, red-check lylo thing ;p I think I'm going to burn this account and start a new one as ghost_404 just so everyone will stop bringing that up. | ||
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*checks his vote* SWEET. {gg marv and vivax} Be getting on in a bit. | ||
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On May 17 2013 06:20 ghost_403 wrote: I submitted turn backwards, move three right. Assuming my move went through, that means I'm F. *checks his vote* SWEET. {gg marv and vivax} Be getting on in a bit. Or H or I. I should learn to read the game board. | ||
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I feel like a kid in the candy store. With so much chaos at the deadline, I'm bound to find something good ^^ | ||
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On May 17 2013 11:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Show nested quote + On May 17 2013 10:38 Zephirdd wrote: On May 17 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote: I moved 3 steps up and looked up. That makes me B right? How did you send your PM to the hosts? This is important. Anyone reading this, do not answer. Oatsmaster, how did you send your PM? How did you want to move? I sent my PM, 'move 3 steps up and look up.' I wanted to move here. I wanted to move here. That's a curious thing to say. | ||
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First of all, BH is town. Period. Unless he's pulling some crazy Risen-esque moves here, he's town. There no reason to risk himself like that as scum. If he's still here in three days, lynch him, but he's probably going to be dead before then. Zephridd also recieves townie points for his actions in the lynching. Ultimately, he was the one responsible for hammering the dearly-departed Vivax, and it fits well with his actions all game. Sharrant receives anti-brownie points for his voting this game. It appears to me that he's playing the part of "scum in the outfield", which is always characterized by not voting for his compatriot day 1. Check it out, that's a thing. Also, it meshes well with the vibes I was getting from him earlier in the day, more on that in a bit. I'm not going to weigh in on Sent and Fyre at this point. Both of them could have been shifting their votes at the last minute to generate some goodwill with the town after they realized that their scumbuddy was getting lynched. Can't read too much either way from their actions. --- I simply don't like Sharrants play this game. Like people have said before, his big posts are empty and devoid of content. This one, in particular, just kind of rubs me the wrong way. Show nested quote + On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote: Hey, guys. Glad to see people moved off of lynching Oatsmaster. I can't say I have him as a distinct town read, but the last game I played with him be played virtually identical to this as town, and was lynched day one. That said, if he continues this into day two, I'll want to lynch him. Vivax: Honestly, the thing that sticks out to me the most about Vivax is his willingness to lynch Oats despite the first hand knowledge he has of Oats doing this as town last game. On the one hand, I could see a townie frustrated with how the game went last time because of Oats, and wanting to punish that behaviour in town while still giving himself a 1/4 chance to hit scum. Or I could see mafia going for what he thinks is an easy mislynch, like last game. The second most important thing in his filter, is the mention of B and J. When under the assumption he later mentioned, that players moved via cardinal direction, this was something I had thought of as well. I had tried my hand at creating a movement pattern that would put as many people in the optimal position as possible. I could never figure one out because of the spread of the board. My problem with a Vivax lynch right now is that I don't think he's lying about believing the game operated with cardinal directions. If he earnestly believed that, I don't think his post is scummy at all. I think it might be a bit counter productive, but not scummy. Now if he's lying, then absolutely he's scum and he got caught trying to fish for player movements. So I ask everyone, do you think he's lying about his knowledge of the movement scheme. If you do, what is it that makes you think he's lying? Convince me that he is, and I'll happily vote him. Vivax, what do you think about keeping Oats alive for today, and lynching him if his play does not improve over the next cycle? Ghost: Ghost, last time we played we were on the same wavelength instantly. That immediately gave me a huge town read on you, this game we're pretty far apart. In the last two games I played, Vivax was a very strong force for town. He established his townieness right away, but didn't just rely on that for credit, he kept playing a consistent game. Half your reasoning for killing Vivax seems to be "This post was kind of scummy", and the other half seems to be "Vivax's town game isn't good enough to belong in this town". Please go and skim his filter in Boardwalk PYP (I think that's the right game). Does that make you feel better or worse about his bandwagon in this game? Does it change your read on him at all? Sentinel: Sentinel is where my vote would feel safest. His filter just seems off, but not in the "paranoia/jumping at shadows" way that a town player can feel off. He spent so much time defending himself about his weird read early on, but people were asking him questions about it, so he gets a little bit of a pass on that part. The biggest thing that reads as scum in his filter to me, is his dropping of Vivax as a suspect just when everyone else was warming up to his lynch. Sentinel, what do you make of Vivax's actions post-removing your vote from him? Do they reinforce your idea to remove your vote from him, or are they making you reconsider voting for him? He spends more time defending Vivax then he does trying to work out who's the best lynch. Why, as town, would anyone spend so much time defending another person on Day 1? From a townie point of view, this particular action simply doesn't make sense. (Of course, now we know Vivax's alignment.) Then, in the part of the post where he tries to work out what to do next, he has no insightful observations. A wordy comment on my meta, and a note that Sent is kind of flismy. It's just not a good post. His later posts follow similar trends. This one irks me. + Show Spoiler + On May 17 2013 00:44 Sharrant wrote: Show nested quote + On May 17 2013 00:28 marvellosity wrote: ferry, I think they didn't not make sense, if you get my drift. Sharrant, explain to me like I'm stupid. Why does thinking we use cardinal directions mean something towards working out where B and J go? I'm definitely missing something here. Could you also explain to me why you'd want to lynch an Oats playing like town-Oats on Day 2 but you wouldn't want to lynch an Oats playing like town-Oats on Day 1? I can't explain Vivax's thought patterns, but I can explain mine. I fucking love puzzles, and thinking problems. The reason I signed up for this game is because it's a mafia game based on a puzzle essentially, so the first thing I did was look at the game to see if it could be solved as a puzzle or which solution would give us the greatest chance of winning. You cannot work out moves for a subset of players (B and J) but what you can do, is work out an optimal list of ordered moves for players. The idea was to create a list that primarily moves players to the left of the board. Moving players to the left is going to give us more visual overlap. The ideal scenario would be all 12 players in a corner, against the wall, players on outer edges facing parallel to the wall, everyone else a step or two out from the wall randomly alternating the direction they're looking between perpendicular to the wall nearest them, and out from the group parallel to the wall nearest them. This makes it hardest for the angels to identify a pattern in which they can enter or get close to our group without being spotted. It also potentially outs puppets for making Angel favoured moves, or making improper reports. Using Cardinal movements it was possible to begin moving players to the lower left hand corner, while giving a move pattern which would identify at least 50% of players, up to a possible 100%. The difference in potential identification is due to people running into walls/other players causing their actual movement to be inconsistent with their stated movement. There were certainly problems with my plan, but it seemed to be the optimal plan when cardinal movements were allowed. Does that adequately explain it? I'm not sure if I'm capable of conveying it very well. Can Angels feed AND use their conventional KP on the same night? If a player is fed upon are they killed that same night? Yeah, that's nice and all, but we don't care. There's no reason to be talking about mechanics in the way he does in this post. It's simply there to waste space and make it look like he's contributing. Then comes that one time when he thoughtlessly sheeps Marv on his vote, then proceeds to do nothing about it. Townies have a natural inclination to work together to figure out everyone else's alignments. Why doesn't he really care? His vote is half-hearted, and has no followthrough at all. It's just a bad vote. All of that in and of itself is a good enough reason for me to vote Sharrant. Combine that with how he's voting stereotypically Day 1 scum when a scum gets lynched (lynchee is desperate, one is onboard, the other is in left field), and we got ourselves a winner. ghost_403's pick for the Day 2 lynch is... ##vote sharrant | ||
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##vote oatsmaster | ||
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On May 18 2013 07:12 Zephirdd wrote: oh and btw, anyone still voting for oats is a fucking moron. Look at his play day 1 and tell me he is a scum and not a town that could know his handle due to who-knows-what-power. Or even that he is not a town and the hosts may have fucked up. I have no idea where this train of thought came from. What does his movement say about his alignment? My problem is, what I believe to be, his scumslip. His post clearly states that he meant to make the move that he made. You can believe that he is a townie, and force that upon your interpretation of his words. In that case, he simply stated that the moves performed on his piece were the ones he meant to make. But that's not what he said. The more straightforward way of interpreting his words is simply this: he knew which piece he was and meant to move from where he was to where he is. As far as I can tell, the only way he could have known that was if he rolled scum. His later actions is consistent with someone who outed themselves as scum. Either you shit up the thread, or you stop talking. I don't know his alignment. What I do know is this: the most straightforward way of interpreting "I wanted to move here." implies that he rolled scum. | ||
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On May 16 2013 10:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Show nested quote + On May 16 2013 05:17 Vivax wrote: This is a scumslip, the host explicitly said that it's possible that the angels know our movement speeds already. You showing this level of security as to immediately call me scum in spite of that fact, is proof that you are either not reading the thread with your due diligence, or scum with the information that angels don't know our movement speed, given your overall play I'm strongly leaning on the latter. I'm expecting your explanation for this, and I want reads from you on every player who posted something substantial in the thread. It's possible. Which means maybe yes, maybe no. If yes, then angels gain nothing and town gains something. If no, then the angels and town both gain something, but angels gain more because they can use the info to win whereas town only needs to coordinate. However, in the second scenario, townies are able to lie/stay silent to protect themselves. If my movement speed was 5, for instance, I could say I had 2-3 movespeed to attract nearby angels. I see something I'm not supposed to, I can use all 5 the next night and dart around like the wind. Again, assuming the angels know nothing. Really it's all chance. And I don't think it's worth a night experimenting with it. So I'm going to back away from this and agree to disagree. At the very least we will voice our movements before the deadline for clarity's sake. Anything else, like you said, is open to discussion. ##unvote Time for some thoughts on Ghost's recent post. Show nested quote + I chimed in my two cents, and then I was off to scum hunt. Unfortunately, it seems that no one is around whenever I'm here. I find a bunch of problems with this alone. Being alone while scumhunting makes my mafiadick hard. It means I can focus on what's already present in the thread with a clear mind, without having to worry about changing conditions. A lot of my reasoning goes out the window when the thread updates. I don't know why you'd have a problem with it and resort to lurking. Explain me why you vote for Vivax and not myself. That's a shitty vote to throw around. Game plan for myself is to organize my thoughts because that's what I'm lacking right now. I'm going to draft up another spreadsheet to consolidate my reads tomorrow and then start making calls from that. Why did I vote for Vivax and not for you? Boils down to my gut. My notes for Sentinel are this: "meh. disoriented, not scummy". Reading the thread, I got the impression that you were someone who was just trying to figure out what was going on. You weren't acting against the town, you were just confused. What exactly what it was that made me think that? I dunno. I doubt I could point to any collection of posts that would show you how I arrived at that conclusion. Vivax didn't give me that vibe. I pointed out my thoughts on him when I voted him. It seems passionate and poorly thought out. He's not trying to figure out Sentinel's alignment, or really thinking about what's going on; he's trying to push him onto the defensive and start an easy lynch. It kind of looks like he immediately dropped it, but it is kind of hard to tell at this point in the game. That's quite a bit different from the vibe that I was getting from you. | ||
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On May 18 2013 09:14 Blazinghand wrote: sorry, balls air etc What's that supposed to mean. | ||
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Also, I would still be happy to lynch Sharrant as well. His (her? idk) last post was completely worthless. Scum like to talk about setup stuffs far past when it's appropriate because they can't actually scumhunt. | ||
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On May 18 2013 19:41 Blazinghand wrote: So we had a big switch at the end, but before then we had a few votes sitting still on deconduo. With 10 players on Vivax and only Sharrant voting on deconduo, we can be sure that scum made a decision to bus Vivax. About an hour out, the votecount was 3 on Vivax and 4 on deconduo. Scum was probably not expecting a Vivax lynch. I'm willing to bet we'll find one scum between deconduo, sentinel, sharrant, zeph, (all the people voting non-vivax). In the end, they all moved to vivax, with fuba and fferyllt moving to deconduo briefly before moving back. Fferyllt's vote on Vivax I think is legit. He was trying to get ANY lynch for the day, deconduo or vivax, and vivax was on his radar earlier. mfkuba though I don't like, but I think he's legit for mainly for this post (link) in which he begins the post talking about lynching vivax, then notes that there's a deconduo mass-swap going on and swaps to deconduo to avoid no-lynching. When he sees we're swapping back to vivax, he goes back to avoid a no-lynch. I think the fact that he was planning to write a case against vivax then got caught up in the voteswapping is a sign of a town motive. F I'm left with dec, sent, sharr, zeph who all moved onto vivax between 1:20 out and the lynch deadline. Zeph I'm setting aside as town due to his townlike setup speculation and his aggression towards oats regarding some kinda weird movemeng mechanic speculation. He's clearly trying hard. If he's scum he gets to live another day. I cant see it tbh. sharrant's interactions with marv convinced marv, and for now that's good enough for me. It's also worth noting that despite being one of the guys pushin this (imo) wrongheaded oats lynch, he's listening to and talking to oats and trying to glean info. sentinel didn't need to come back to the thread, ask to be sold, and be sold. that being said he's said a lot of stuff that's struck me his game as weird. maybe but not a top priority. I rule out the oats/vivax bus theory, I just don't see vivax going for that. I could see a long bus coming from deconduo (dont' think of him as town just because he was the other wagon) and also from ghost, whose case imo is weak/bad I really find a lot of weird interactions between ghost, deconduo, and vivax during day 1. What's with deconduo (who has posted very little) dropping this zero-followup case on ghost? When he was called out for it he eventually did some weak followup, but his entire action today has been pushing an oats slip theory despite thinking he's caught and oats-ghost scumteam. Where's the additional information? Where's the case? He just dropped his vote in here and bailed. I think ghost's interactions with vivax and decon during day 1 are weird but maybe I can just chalk that up to ghost being weird. he calls out vivax with his first real post (link) and is basically on vivax (sort of) for the rest of the game. now colour me crazy but I don't see him doing that to a scumbuddy. Not if there was a hcance of it really picking up steam for a day 1 mislynch. Really what it comes down to me is I think we were choosing between scum deconduo and scum vivax lynches yeterday. I think deconduo is scum. Giving out a townread on zeph was easy money for him, and the fact that he makes no mention of oats, doesn't write a case, and just claims the guy slipped hard and votes him and runs, makes deconduo scum in my book. I don't see the oats bus. I don't see scum sharrant interacting with marv so openly. I don't see either of these wagons. The real wagon that needs to be pushed today is deconduo. Show nested quote + On May 18 2013 09:40 deconduo wrote: I agree that oats' play day one wasn't particularly scummy. However that slip us way too blatant for us to ignore as a mistake. First of all oats would have to not read up on how the movement works,secondly the hosts would have to not inform him that he moved illegally and finally the hosts would have to willingly put his move through. If he is a blue that knows his position, why hasn't he at least soft claimed instead of disappearing off the face of the earth. The fact of the matter is, he's lynching a someone for whom, as far as he knows, is town player for sending in a weird night action. You can't have this as your justification for lynching oats. | ||
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On May 18 2013 19:50 Blazinghand wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'm also going to be completely clear here: lynching oats because he sent in night actions phrased in absolute rather than relative directions is shit play and I WILL NOT HAVE IT. Fuck, what if you're the fuckign co-host of this game and you recieve some guy who says "I want to move 2 squares north then 2 squares east while facing north" are you really going to PM the guy back saying "hey man I want you to rephrase that"? Well, maybe, but let me put it this way: are you willing to stake AN ENTIRE LYNCH on this speculation, OVER your read? DECONDUO: you admit you think oats d1 play, and I quote, "wasn't particularly scummy" but you still want to lynch him. This is not acceptable, and coupled with your scummy play indicates you are scum. GHOST: you intially had some concerns about Oats D1, but you admit that such concerns are assuaged by my meta read of Oats. Do you think I'm wrong, or is your vote on him just because of the wording of his movement, as you imply here? (link) + Show Spoiler + FUBA: you interacted with oats several times d1, and you even questioned whether it was wise of him to vote vivax. Is your voting him now based entirely on his wording of his movement, as you imply here? (link) SENT: you say (link) that if not for the movement thing, Oats would be "above the level of suspicion". Is it really just the movement claim that changes you from utterly unwilling to lynch Oats to voting him? Honestly, I never bothered to read the game that he referenced. I was trusting in BH's integrity as a player. Only an idiot would give me the wrong conclusion before telling me to come to my own. And, yes, I did vote for him (at that point) strictly on the wording of his answer. His answer implies a certain mindset; one that knows more than us. His actions since then have reinforced my views on him. | ||
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On May 19 2013 09:23 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ghost prematurely buses Vivax when I accuse him, taking advantage of his mistake to distance him in case Vivax gets lynched (as he did). Show nested quote + It seems passionate and poorly thought out. He's not trying to figure out Sentinel's alignment, or really thinking about what's going on; he's trying to push him onto the defensive and start an easy lynch. It kind of looks like he immediately dropped it, but it is kind of hard to tell at this point in the game. Until someone convinces me that leaving Vivax in game is a good idea, ##vote vivax And ends his post in a manner that makes it look like he's certain Vivax is scum (which he is) off of one paragraph of reasoning. When Oats slips he posts this: Show nested quote + On May 17 2013 11:04 ghost_403 wrote: On May 17 2013 11:01 Oatsmaster wrote: On May 17 2013 10:38 Zephirdd wrote: On May 17 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote: I moved 3 steps up and looked up. That makes me B right? How did you send your PM to the hosts? This is important. Anyone reading this, do not answer. Oatsmaster, how did you send your PM? How did you want to move? I sent my PM, 'move 3 steps up and look up.' I wanted to move here. I wanted to move here. That's a curious thing to say. And then launches into his analysis of the players. Note that in his 11:17 post, he doesn't mention this oddity, but instead builds a sizable case on Sharrant. But then Zeph during this time points out the scumslip and ghost chucks his case out the window to get on the Oatsmaster wagon. Only then does he begin to build a case on the one alleged scumslip, writing with the conviction that Oats is scum. He doesn't stop to consider the alternatives, and I know this because his case severely weakens when Zephirdd presents a counterargument, and disappears after Oats' justification. This is why we lynch ghost_403 I don't write cases out of necessity or convenience, I write cases because I think that people are scum. The idea that I'm going to start writing a case, see something lynch worthy, and then just forget about it is stupid. I thought Sharrant was scum, I wrote down my thoughts, and then I posted them so that other people could read them and chime in. Given that, I did exactly what I was supposed to do there. I finished my thought, which no one really directly disagreed with, and then punished Oats for what I thought was a scumslip. And as far as Zephh's counterargument, I disagree with it. I have no idea what movement mistake you guys are talking about and I don't care. Oats statement is a classic Freudian slip, showing that he looks at the game a little bit different than us. His reactions since then make me believe that he is not blue, he is scum. | ||
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On May 20 2013 23:33 Oatsmaster wrote: explain why you want to lynch me including information/posts that are in the thread since you left. If anyone other than Oats is interested in my thoughts on this, I'm happy to answer. I believe that I've made myself clear on this, but I'm happy to clear this up for anyone else. | ||
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##vote oatsmaster Taking any and all movement requests. I'm H, for reference. | ||
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Now, why don't you tell me who you'd like to lynch next. You've been awfully vague on that. | ||
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Only two conclusions there: (1) scum targeted one of their own for nefarious and inexplicable purposes, or (2) scum targeted a townie because that's what scum do. Are you thinking about this game at all? And you still haven't told me why you think he's scum. | ||
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I'm still not quite sure what to make of Dec's roleclaim. It does fit in well with the lore, but it seems surprisingly underpowered. Especially with the Doctor's ability to confirm people as town via his screwdriver. I have a lot of questions about this. Zepph is town. If he's not, I'm giving him the game. Sentinel has been playing badly all game thus far. He's been remarkably flip-floppy on nearly everything. Super unimpressed by his play. fuba has completely blended into the background. I haven't made any notes on him since the beginning of the game. Rereading his filter, the only thing really of note is the fact that his flashlight went out. I have no idea what to make of that. In general, I get a townie vibe from phagga. He hasn't posted too much, but he shows honest effort in the thread and really tries to figure out what's going on. I'm guessing that his lack of direct contributions to the thread is simply due to his schedule. And I think Oats is scum. If dec isn't dead tonight, spend a lot of time looking at him tomorrow. There's something off there. Not gonna be back before the deadline. In the unlikely event that you guys change your minds, I'm moving 4 left tonight. {gg gl hf} | ||
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May 25 2013 17:40 GMT
#1058
Huge thanks to the hosts, this game was a ton of fun. Not enough Daleks, but otherwise great. | ||
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