|
On May 16 2013 21:53 Vivax wrote:
We mustn't forget to talk about our moves though. Finding a good lynch target is fine, but not having the angels feed on us is possibly a higher priority than that. This game is won on the board for them.
I'm currently looking at B and J and they are close to each other, they are basically already in a pair, any idea on how they should move ideally?
Yeah, let's not.
We don't even know who B and J is, so it is useless speculating about their movement. Everyone has to find a move-and-face-pattern for himself and announce it at deadline.
|
On May 16 2013 21:59 marvellosity wrote:
is that a scumslip?
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing right now.
|
On May 16 2013 22:09 Vivax wrote:
Marv, you're starting to piss me off. Think about a good strategy instead of talking about "scumslips".
For example, the majority of players is on the left, if you want to reach the sides of the board, what would you do? You would let everyone move left, cause if everyone moves right, logically the majority would reach a position in the middle.
This goes completely against the original idea of trying to figure out who everyone is on the board. Why are you bringing this up now? Don't you want to figure out who is who on the board?
I really can't see how you bring this up when you don't even know the players positions on the board. Unless, of course, you know everyones position already, which would make you scum.
|
On May 16 2013 22:19 Vivax wrote:
I've got stuff to study for the next few hours, I'll have a look into the thread from time to time.
WTF?
##Unvote
##Vote: Vivax
|
On May 16 2013 22:48 Vivax wrote:
I missed crossfire's post about how movement works. I was still stuck into thinking you pick a cardinal direction and have to move into just one direction.
Even if you missed it, your plan goes completely against what we are trying to do to find out positions. As soon as you let all people walk in the same direction, you run the risk that several use the same speed, and afterwards we still don't know who is who. This is why I don't understand why you brought this even up. We need to know which player has which position first, and for that we need the highest possible diversity in move patterns to minimize chances that two people are doing the exact same move.
So, no, your explanation does not cut it.
|
On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote:
Hey, guys.
Glad to see people moved off of lynching Oatsmaster. I can't say I have him as a distinct town read, but the last game I played with him be played virtually identical to this as town, and was lynched day one. That said, if he continues this into day two, I'll want to lynch him.
I think it was mentioned before, but this paragraph makes no sense at all.
On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote:
Vivax:
Honestly, the thing that sticks out to me the most about Vivax is his willingness to lynch Oats despite the first hand knowledge he has of Oats doing this as town last game. On the one hand, I could see a townie frustrated with how the game went last time because of Oats, and wanting to punish that behaviour in town while still giving himself a 1/4 chance to hit scum. Or I could see mafia going for what he thinks is an easy mislynch, like last game.
The second most important thing in his filter, is the mention of B and J. When under the assumption he later mentioned, that players moved via cardinal direction, this was something I had thought of as well. I had tried my hand at creating a movement pattern that would put as many people in the optimal position as possible. I could never figure one out because of the spread of the board.
He could be scum or not. wishy-washy.
On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote:
My problem with a Vivax lynch right now is that I don't think he's lying about believing the game operated with cardinal directions. If he earnestly believed that, I don't think his post is scummy at all. I think it might be a bit counter productive, but not scummy. Now if he's lying, then absolutely he's scum and he got caught trying to fish for player movements.
So I ask everyone, do you think he's lying about his knowledge of the movement scheme. If you do, what is it that makes you think he's lying? Convince me that he is, and I'll happily vote him.
Oh, ok, you think Vivax is probably not scum since you don't think he lied, right?
On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote:
Sentinel:
Sentinel is where my vote would feel safest. His filter just seems off, but not in the "paranoia/jumping at shadows" way that a town player can feel off. He spent so much time defending himself about his weird read early on, but people were asking him questions about it, so he gets a little bit of a pass on that part. The biggest thing that reads as scum in his filter to me, is his dropping of Vivax as a suspect just when everyone else was warming up to his lynch.
Waaaait, but this implies Vivax is scum, cause why else does sentinel (as scum) have to move his vote away from Vivax? So why does anyone have to convince you that Vivax is indeed scum by proving he lied?
And what is this anyway, association cases of unflipped players?
Also, how did his filter feel off if not in the "paranoia/jumping at shadows" way?
On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote:
Vivax, what do you think about keeping Oats alive for today, and lynching him if his play does not improve over the next cycle?
Again, if this is how Town Oats plays, then why do you even want to lynch him at all?
|
On May 17 2013 00:58 marvellosity wrote:
phagga, you are verily my Iago.
I have no idea what that means.
I have to head off to the train, I should be online again in about 3 hours hopefully (depends on the kids).
|
On May 17 2013 00:58 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 00:37 marvellosity wrote:Sharrant I don't like a lot of your post actually. Further stuff: On May 17 2013 00:14 Sharrant wrote:
Vivax:
Honestly, the thing that sticks out to me the most about Vivax is his willingness to lynch Oats despite the first hand knowledge he has of Oats doing this as town last game. On the one hand, I could see a townie frustrated with how the game went last time because of Oats, and wanting to punish that behaviour in town while still giving himself a 1/4 chance to hit scum. Or I could see mafia going for what he thinks is an easy mislynch, like last game. You spend a long time talking about Vivax without coming to a conclusion, including this. You give two options but you distinctly don't give a stance on either. Not even a leaning, it's just words for the sake of words. It's bad.
Sentinel:
Sentinel is where my vote would feel safest. His filter just seems off, but not in the "paranoia/jumping at shadows" way that a town player can feel off. He spent so much time defending himself about his weird read early on, but people were asking him questions about it, so he gets a little bit of a pass on that part. The biggest thing that reads as scum in his filter to me, is his dropping of Vivax as a suspect just when everyone else was warming up to his lynch.
Sentinel is your primary scum suspect, but why? What's the justification here? His filter is "off" in an unexplained way, that's useless. He defended himself when he was attacked, that's not a reason either. And as for the biggest thing that reads as scum in his filter - you need to explain very, very clearly to me exactly why what you said makes him mafia. Why does BlazingHand voting Vivax sometime after Sentintel unvoted him make Sentinel mafia?
Ghost:
Ghost, last time we played we were on the same wavelength instantly. That immediately gave me a huge town read on you, this game we're pretty far apart. In the last two games I played, Vivax was a very strong force for town. He established his townieness right away, but didn't just rely on that for credit, he kept playing a consistent game. Half your reasoning for killing Vivax seems to be "This post was kind of scummy", and the other half seems to be "Vivax's town game isn't good enough to belong in this town". Please go and skim his filter in Boardwalk PYP (I think that's the right game).
Again this says very little about ghost, other than insinuating that you find him mafia because you're not on his wavelength this time. Is ghost mafia or not? What's the purpose of all this? Let's nip this in the bud then. Vivax isn't a mafia suspect for me at this point. I do not see in his filter the same things that in the last two games have given me instant strong town reads on him, but their absence is not reason for me to believe he is scum. His thought process about the player movement is something that I had thought of as well, the difference though is his seems more specific to a subset of players. I do not, at this time, have reason to believe Vivax is scum. He is a light town read, the only thing holding him back from being a stronger town read is that his plan focused on the subset of B and J, when it should be applied to everyone. The reason I mentioned Sentinel having defended himself to other people's questions is because I am not sure if I'm reaching on this one. His weird defence of fferyllt does not look like it comes from a townie, it looks like it came from scum. If his defense had been unprompted by questions, I'd be sure he was scum. As it is, I don't really know how I feel about his defense. It was driven by other peoples questions, but he seemed to be content JUST defending himself, rather than answering the questions and pushing a town objective at the same time. I'm not insinuating that Ghost is scum, whether that is how it reads to you or not. I am hoping to have a discussion with him because I do know that we think similarly, but we have had very different experiences with Vivax after the last game we both played with him. I want to be able to determine if we can get on the same page this game, and if we can't whether it's because of differing experiences with the player base or set up, or whether it's because we're of differing alignments.
So basically you have no clear read on anyone, and are just naming the 3 guys that have pressure on them anyway, although you don't think anyone is scum?
What is this?
Who do you want to lynch right now, and why? You don't need to write an essay, I just want at least one name and an explanation for it.
|
On May 17 2013 01:07 marvellosity wrote:
Sharrant, Sentinel voted for Vivax, ghost voted for Vivax, Sentinel unvoted Vivax. That's the timeline as I see it.
Are you seriously suggesting a mafia Sentinel unvoted a player because one other player voted for him?
Hey, I wanted to say that!
But let me add that thread sentiment at that time was not heavily vs. Vivax. I see no way how sentinel could know at that point that a Vivax bandwagon would leave the station.
|
On May 17 2013 01:12 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 01:07 marvellosity wrote:
Sharrant, Sentinel voted for Vivax, ghost voted for Vivax, Sentinel unvoted Vivax. That's the timeline as I see it.
Are you seriously suggesting a mafia Sentinel unvoted a player because one other player voted for him? Zepphird also voted for him in that time frame. After seeing Vivax get two quick votes from people that sounded like they were ready to pursue him about it, yes I could see him unvoting and just trying to ride out the day. There were 3 votes on him all within 1 or 2 pages, it certainly looked to me, when I was reading through everything, that votes were going to pile up on Vivax from that point on.
Zephirdd unvoted shortly after voting. When sentinel was unvoting, there was only ghost left on vivax.
|
kk, I'm back, daughter needed too long to fall asleep
trying to read up, anything important? lynch is in 15 min right?
|
mkfuba and fferyltt have not voted at all 
|
fferyllt, marv is probably one of the best town players in this game (if he is town), so sheeping him is no shame. vote vivax!
|
ALSO DON'T FORGET TO CLAIM YOUR MOVEMENT AT DEADLINE! VOTE VIVAX!
|
Face backwards, then move 2 steps backwards and 1 step right.
|
Wow, I never thought you guys would get back to vivax in time.
|
1 Scum down, way to go!
B and D are gone, so those were probably Marv and Vivax
C is the only one that moved in my pattern, so that should be me.
G seems to be blind now, and I is probably looking over the edge.
Also, I'm off to bed. more tomorrow.
|
sorry, I meant J and D are gone, not B and D. so J and D were probably Marv and Vivax.
|
let's make a list:
A = deconduo
B = ?
C = phagga
D = marv/vivax
E = ?
F = ?
G = ?
H = ?
I = ?
J = marv/vivax
K = ?
L = ?
now I?m really off to bed.
|
Ok, I made a short analysis of Vivax interactions. He actively talks to 6 people (Sentinel, Oats, Zephirdd, phagga, Marv, Blazinghand (only setup talk)), he mentions a few more.
What stands out most is that while he does not talk with deconduo or ghost, he defends both in this post:
On May 17 2013 02:49 Vivax wrote:
As for deconduo, you call his post to be drop and run, when you don't know his schedule, and part of it is his setup talk.
I am not a fan of incriminating people based on the setup talk, rather for shutting it down, and even a bad idea is only as influential as the number of people following it. Proposing ideas with the potential to look so bad reads to me as unafraid, actually, people jumping at bad ideas screaming bloody murder read as scum.
I disagree with his read on ghost though. His point is that ghost is scum for saying mechanics are useless and then discussing them nontheless. Scum doesn't want to post extra much without reason. There was intrinsic motivation for ghost to discuss mechanics even after announcing it wouldn't be the best idea, that means he's likely town, unless he's some master at self-representation.
Now, Vivax was already under pressure at this point; Although Zephirdd had already unvoted again, there were still 4 votes on him and he was the vote leader. However, at the same time deconduo was gaining votes and suspicions. So what happens in the above post? Vivax defends both deconduo and ghost! Why is that strange? Because it was a good opportunity to attack either of them and hope to get the pressure of his back. Instead he defends both and further attacks Zephirdd (whom he made a case on about 30 minutes earlier).
This makes me think that either decon or ghost are scum. If it's decon, then Vivax tried to safe him with that defense, but then why does he defend ghost? That does not make much sense. Instead, I assume he had two goals:
- Gain towncred by defending Deconduo. Thread sentiment was leaning towards decon-scum, and Deconduo already had 3 votes at that point. He probably hoped decon would be lynched, so he gets towncred.
- Defend your scum-bro: Ghost_403 is indeed scum, and Zephirdd used this opportunity to defend him, which would have more impact once he gets towncred for defending decon.
There is a second possibility, that deconduo and ghost_403 are both scum. Will need to think about that.
TLDR; I'll check ghost_403 next.
Further findings from interactions:
There is almost 0 Talk with Sharrant or about Sharrant. CTRL+F in Vivax' filter gives these 2 posts:
On May 16 2013 21:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 20:59 marvellosity wrote:
Vivax, who do you want to kill right now? Oats cause he played like scum, and I wouldn't regret the loss if he's town. Frankly I don't understand how you can give him a townread just like that, I would like you to expand on it, and also your opinion on BH quickly abandoning the Oats option and then claiming towards me to have laid out reasoning for Oats being town, when he has only sheeped your reasoning IIRC. As for others, I'll wait for the return of Sentinel and Ghost to comment on the situation. Sharrant if he doesn't post more. He's usually very lengthy and insightful as town.
On May 17 2013 02:30 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 02:04 Zephirdd wrote:
We can still lynch sharrath i thimk. Deadline is in 3 hours iirc. Posting from phone @class so forgive me if this post is rushed.
I dislike a deconduo lynch though. I made a big post about all players where I say it - there was a question he asked that makes me think would never be asked by an angel.
Vivax looks like a better lynch than decond atm IMO Why do you want to lynch Sharrant.You said this earlier. He now has made more posts, there is no updated reasoning from your side, you're just looking for something easy to lynch. Show nested quote +Sharrant made one freaking post. I understand that he said "I have little time" etc but he simply made one post and, after nobody mentioning him, disappeared.
Not sure what to do with this currently.
Further Further findings from interactions
He defends mkfuba for his first post:
On May 16 2013 19:58 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 19:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On May 16 2013 18:34 Vivax wrote:On May 16 2013 18:24 Oatsmaster wrote:On May 16 2013 17:16 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hey all. Sorry I've been completely inactive. I have one more final tomorrow and then I'm out for the summer. I've been keeping up as best I can, but I don't have any particularly convinced reads at the moment. I have a few people I'm averse to lynching, but that's about it.
I don't have any unique insight to add. I'm not really ready to place a vote, and I don't feel like I've seen anything I could point at and say, "Yes, I find this scummy." My D1 vote is probably going to the person who I have least reason to believe is town, but I won't be able to actively participate and figure out who that is until I'm done with my last exam in a few hours.
Oh, as for mechanics, etc. I'm down with the "reveal our movements shortly before the daypost" plan. It definitely seems best to at least find where we all are on the map, try to decrease the information advantage of the angels. WHY WOULD YOU POST?/????????? god. Why? To not get modkilled maybe. Do you think that post looks scummy? yes. 13 pages. And he has no reads. Like where is the town motivation for posting this post? It does not help town at all. At all. So he says he has reads. But oh man I dont really wanna share them cause they are MINE, MINE!!!!!!. Also he overexplains his acceptance of the obviously great plan. That post is so bad that I could see it coming from a townie, actually. I'd rather expect him to do some forced bullshit push, or jump on the bandwagon against me at this point, not apologize and admit that he's got nothing to contribute.
I thought it could point to a connection between mkfuba and Vivax. However, when checking mkfuba's filter, I could not find anything that would point to a connection of the two, nor does he look scummy.
Also he clearly stated that he preferred Vivax over deconduo and did not hesitate to vote Vivax when blazinghand called for a switch and marv switched (he voted in the same minute as Marv and BH). His vote was the hammer vote. All this makes me think he is not scum, though I hope to see more of him like he promised.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
