EPTCarnival Cruise Mafia - Page 6
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
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On May 15 2013 15:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats, if OO is town and the votestealer is scum, why is the anon vote on someone else and didn't hammer OO? Maybe it's so you could ask this question! No, seriously, I wonder about that too. People fucked off towards the end of the cycle though, so keep that in mind as well. Who wasn't around to move the vote to me when I was the prevailing wagon? That's a big list of people right now as far as I can see. Maybe make a list of those names for future use to compare against other periods of inactivity? I am also operating under the assumption that it's a mafia vote stealer, when in reality it's entirely possible (but IMO not probable) that it's a town role in this specific game. So now you have to look at a) people who weren't around and b) people who had a town read on me and wouldn't vote for me. So... really I'm not getting anything useful out of thinking about it right now, but feel free to share if you have any insights. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 13 2013 16:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Also. OO is scum because he thought that the kill might be from 3P, in an Ace game, in a closed setup. Righhttttttttt. Give me more meat on OO being scum please or something other than OO OMGUSing DP. Come on. Traps are stuff both town and scum set up, and its true that DP didnt address the main point which was that he talked a lot about how he was townie(thats what I got from the 'trap post'). But no, DP doesnt like meta. Who knew?? WHOO??? 3P is in the FAQ for the game below the player list: Are there 3P in the game? "I don't know" I was the first to present this idea to the game. I was the one who called that mafia would potentially want to eliminate any threats to their side. This is being held against me because? WTHTD be damned, it's not outside the realm of possibility that someone on the mafia team agreed with me on it and had them shoot DP. Since no Vig has claimed and we don't know if they are potentially a JOAT, we are currently assuming mafia killed DP. DP's strong town game has been lauded, so that's just icing on the cake of a decision to kill him first even in the face of potentially being on the block D1. Does my speculation about night actions taken by mafia make me scummy? Do people actually assume I would be presenting potential ideas for why DP died in the thread if I was mafia? I ... I'm at a loss for words about this subject. Back to my re-read. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 13 2013 16:48 Promethelax wrote: I find myself disagreeing with you Vivax. Look at this post and this post: Rayn is all about how DP is scum. His recent games have been decent and Rayn's one scum game showed a good understanding of how to play scum. Tunneling one dude and murdering him right after isn't terribly good as mafia even more so since at least one townie (from my pov obviously, you can argue that everyone who called DP scum is themselves scum) agreed with his push and DP seemed like a likely target for the day one lynch. I by no means think Rayn is confirmed town but I certainly wouldn't lynch him today. Prom how can you apply this logic to Rayn and then disregard it when it comes to me? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 13 2013 16:56 Oatsmaster wrote: No? Scum doesnt want to kill 3P day 1. I said he was vigged. So am I scum too because I have a readymade reason why scum didnt shot DP? Oats wtf did you really 180 on this? In the span of a single page of the game? REALLY? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 15 2013 15:43 ObviousOne wrote: Oats wtf did you really 180 on this? In the span of a single page of the game? REALLY? I think I misread this, disregard for now, coffee isn't helping me. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 14 2013 01:17 slOosh wrote: Hey Prom, why would OO as scum give out the NK explanation? Kind of an out-of-place (but relevant to conversation) defense of me before the bandwagon on me took off. It's curious. Making a note of it. Go to the filter. [re-read on hold to follow this train of thought] Later on, we get this: On May 15 2013 13:00 slOosh wrote: He defends Vayne using unmentionable meta, presumably on writing style / attitude / activity since that is what meta tends to be. Yet when he flips and pushes a Vayne lynch less than an hour later No mention at all about Vayne's meta. These are all points that existed before, and there isn't actually stuff in there that is used to prove he is scum as much as it is used to prove that he is a "bad player". Therefore the original meta use is total fluff. It's like me saying, OO is scum because meta. Vote OO. I can't explain why. But I reserve the right to shirk responsibility for this stance later. I fully explained it On May 15 2013 11:58 ObviousOne wrote: No his rage is allegedly not part of his town play. His town play is cold. His scum play is emotional. Lashing out with ad hom fits into which category? Dunked Apparently not good enough. What can I expect when he's under the gun to get it in just a few minutes before deadline? On May 15 2013 12:45 slOosh wrote: Just finished, looking good. ##Unvote ##Vote ObviousOne Oats, could you explain this from town perspective? Why ask Oats, why not ask the horse itself? Because at the time I had previously established a soft town read on Vayne. Then I re-read him and understood exactly what was being discussed about Vayne and his case against Prp and I found his case contrary to his purported town mentality and modus operandum. His back and forth with Prom just sealed the deal to me. Have I made things clear yet? Are you reading my posts in context or are you just skimming through my filter? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 15 2013 02:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: First, Sloosh and your case: + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2013 00:55 slOosh wrote: How can it be both a bad vig shot and a bad scum shot? This makes no sense at all. In light of the DarthPunk flip I went back and reread people's stances on him. Because he had so much spotlight on him, scum would be compelled to make an opinion on him, or at least comment on him. What is important is to see how people justify their suspicions / read on him - town players have straightforward explanations while mafia try to make stuff up. Out of them, rayn sticks out the most: (1)This is a classic mafia tactic. Push and lynch people for being bad, not scum. (2)Here rayn implicitly calls DarthPunk mafia without actually doing so. He is pushing the idea that because it is "not optimal" that he is scum upon a ridiculous premise. "If you are town you shouldn't be checked". Read that out loud to yourself. It's nonsense. If that was the case then cops would always land red checks. Rayn is justifying his vote with bad (read non existent) reasoning. (3)Avoiding giving opinions on kitaman(!!!) and draws attention back on DarthPunk. Then proceeds to ask a loaded question. (4)Another loaded question, pushing suspicion on him without any justification. ##Vote raynpelikoneet 1) No it's not. It's an opinion that i expressed as simple as it was possible. I think claiming miller in a setup where the number (or existance) of millers is not known is stupid or scum. 2) The bolded part you quoted; I think as town you should play as pro-town as possible, right? Cops do not check people they think are town right? I didn't understand why DP, at the start of the game, was worried about being checked by a cop. For me it seemed like he was scum who was afraid of being checked. I hope you get what i mean. 3 and 4) As is said, i unfortunately have limited time. I was not interested in kitaman at that time, i did not know what to make of him calling WoS scum that early in the game, so i ignored it. I wanted to hear more from DP, and wanted him to do something else than to defend himself. Everyone was discussing him at that moment, i wanted to know what else than his claim was on his mind. If i got something else to clarify to you, ask me. About why i am voting for OO: What Prome said about OO and OO having an explanation to the DP night kill. In top of that DP was suspicious of OO, makes sense. Another thing that's very very odd from OO: OO called me out for meta reasons. I then posted in thread that i have a tight work schedule. What does OO answer: In my opinion this has nothing to do with meta, at all. If i post less i post less, but i still act as i usually do whatever my alignment is. OO is dropping his meta scum-read on me because of my work schedule. How does that make sense? Right, it doesn't, unless he knows i'm town and made up a meta read on me before i was even able to fully contribute to anything but DP-stuff. shiro: You are saying that if WoS is town i am scum. How does that make sense? Are you saying i am not able to form town reads on people other people think is scum? I have given my reasons why i think WoS is town, are they bullshit? Elaborate please. Rayn do you need me to explain why I would say that? You will be around less time = you will ask fewer, but perhaps more poignant questions and I'm used to seeing you questioning just about everything as town. I wasn't seeing that ultra-inquisitive Rayn I'm used to seeing, and your retro-active explanation for not being around to question everything as it's happening changed how I felt from you being potentially scum to null for that reason. Kinda late to be responding to this but I have my mojo back so I'm hitting up everything in the thread as I re-read, so whatevs, there you go. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 15 2013 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Let me put it out there that I'm willing to consolidate on OO if he's really lost the will to play. Prom is right, the fact that I have martyred as town doesn't make it a standard townie thing, and my read of OO might be biased because I like the guy. I will move to OO to secure a lynch when the time comes. Someone just pushed me on the mood swing. I think I'm better now. Can't promise I won't wake up feeling Oscar the Grouch tomorrow but I just treat my condition one day at a time. Regarding earlier when you first made that first case on Vayne and I disregarded it almost immediately, I reacted that way because I had a tenuous town read on Vayne at the time. Obviously I 180'd on that once I sat down and thought about it. Vivax appears to think that we're retarded for voting for Vayne and trying to start a new (justified) wagon towards the end of the day, so how do you feel about Vivax? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
@VE, BTW have you re-thought about your stance on BH at all? I don't know how to read BH without bias. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 15 2013 06:47 strongandbig wrote: I'm kinda down to lynch OO after that stunt Still rather lynch scum though. Killing oats FTW! His points against Oats: On May 14 2013 07:13 strongandbig wrote: -for oats wanting to kill people with anti town attitudes (i see nothing wrong with oats' opinion on this) -for oats claiming his vote was stolen (he's not hiding information from town, why expose there was a vote steal if his mafia teammate has it?) -for oats using flavor (role name given to player) to determine scumslips (okay that's crazy by oats, but crazy is not alignment indicative for oats lol, and it was an amusing angle in looking at Rayn) -for helping to get a wagon on WOS started (at least spurring the town to action, intent is to get people to take sides on a wagon, progressive move) In short, I find his case/points garbage and I want other people to take a look at him to hear if they think his points are garbage. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 15 2013 17:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats, you said in your reads that you are town because you got your vote stolen. Now you say you think the votestealer is town. How the fuck does that make you town? If i was town votestealer i would want to steal a mafia vote. If i was mafia votestealer i would probably steal my teammates vote as there are no downsides doing that on N0, it just adds confusion to town. You are not being clear here. Vivax, WoS was mainly pushed by BH, other people pretty much sheeped him. I do not think BH is necessarily town, i think WoS is town, that's why it's possible that the lynch was scum driven imo. OO, i understand you better. I also think both of you/Oats are not likely scum, and atm Oats looks way worse. I think it's possible that the votestealer is town and that's why you were not hammered. I also think VE is scum. Kush looks really bad too. I'll be posting a full list of reads before the day starts. I think VE could be scum as well, so I'm going to interrogate him until I'm satisfied one way or another. Normally I get a gut read on him and in the past two games we've been in together my gut read on him has been incorrect so my gut to reality ratio is at 0% regarding VE. I had a town gut read on VE up through his switch to me, so I'm biased in that regard both because a) I think he's scum due to taking the inverse of my gut read and b) he voted for me so I cannot even escape that bias right now. | ||
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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On May 15 2013 17:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats, you said in your reads that you are town because you got your vote stolen. Now you say you think the votestealer is town. How the fuck does that make you town? If i was town votestealer i would want to steal a mafia vote. If i was mafia votestealer i would probably steal my teammates vote as there are no downsides doing that on N0, it just adds confusion to town. You are not being clear here. Vivax, WoS was mainly pushed by BH, other people pretty much sheeped him. I do not think BH is necessarily town, i think WoS is town, that's why it's possible that the lynch was scum driven imo. OO, i understand you better. I also think both of you/Oats are not likely scum, and atm Oats looks way worse. I think it's possible that the votestealer is town and that's why you were not hammered. I also think VE is scum. Kush looks really bad too. I'll be posting a full list of reads before the day starts. You are saying you don't think we are both scum together, but if one of the two of us was scum it would be Oats? I disagree that Oats is scum for now, and I don't see why he and I can't both be town. I will however, let you try to convince me about it just to see what you have to say that makes him scummy. You have my attention. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 16 2013 01:59 slOosh wrote: I'm starting to doubt my initial read on Rayn. His continued followup and focus on OO looks good and addresses a bulk of my case indirectly. It throws me off that he misses my huge posts but that could be an innocent mistake. I'm most thrown off by how many people have echoed agreement but no one was willing to put votes on him, you know, to actually get him lynched. And that's the general atmosphere of how I'm reading Day 1. Many people voicing suspicions and pointing fingers, but very few people actually pushing / consolidating / willing to get people lynched. That leads me to believe that we have a more lurky / timid type scum team that is joining on what is available rather than actively working to push lynches. The difficulty is that we have a bunch of lurky town who are doing the exact same thing and letting scum hide amongst them. My stance upon OO is dependent on if he can back his words with proof - if he can mount a meta case on Vayne and therefore justify his actions and stances, then he doesn't look that bad, given that I don't really find Prom's "scumslip" thing that big, as indicated by my earlier question to him. People I want to lynch will reveal themselves early tomorrow. If they don't / can't push the cases / suspicions that they voiced in day 1, then we know they were full of fluff and just pretending to look good. You might be waiting a few games to get a full fledged meta case on Vayne. You know, considering this is game 2 for him on this forum here on this account as far as I am aware. If you call me saying him reacting emotionally to Prom when he said that's what he does as town in this very game (and a far as I'm aware that is where this concept originates, that he will get emotional as town when he is headed for a mislynch), why should I believe it? So I take his last game and his explanation from his play there and extend it to here and I'm left with conflicting ideas brought up by his own design that he essentially is authoring his own meta on a game by game basis. All I have to go on is his own word regarding this and that's why I don't trust it as it makes me wonder why it is that you DO. If I precluded my own play this game with "I only get demotivated about the game as town" and then did what I did, would you honestly take my word for it they I pre-emotes my actions with reasoning? Besides all that, meta is icing on the cake and not a sole basis for my case. His points regarding Prp were null, not scummy, and I wanted to hang him for lynching Prp for basically manufactured reasons. His emotional response at 3 votes is absolutely out of this world incongruent with the game state. | ||
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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On May 16 2013 03:47 VayneAuthority wrote: you're overanalyzing this shitty player, I could never be so sneaky. I have one playstyle and thats it hurrr Don't forget who the main wagons were either. Show me some of that sweet sweet vote analysis you say is one of your strengths. Show us. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On May 16 2013 03:57 strongandbig wrote: Okay let's talk about this stuff - Wanting to kill people who "have a bad attitude" or who "are making promises" are classic scum tactics. Scum need to find someone to kill for a reason other than that they are scum, and this is often taken as an easy out. The reason that's the scummiest and worst post in the thread is that oats is trying to pass this off as normal. - I don't care that oats claimed that his vote was stolen, I care that he just casually passed it off without bringing any attention or analysis to it. It's a scummy way to make a claim of kind of an unusual role-mechanic. - It's not the way that oats came to the conclusion that rayn had scumslipped, it's how he reacted to the supposed scumslip. If you're a townie and you think someone has scumslipped, you jump all over them. You explain why it's a scumslip, you bring it to people's attention, you try and get that scum killed. Instead oats just casually threw out "hey doods its a scum slip," without pursuing it or even explaining what the scumslip was. - finally, if you really think voting someone early, in an instant-majority game, without explaining yourself further than "let's get this wagon rolling" is a good townie way to play, I would hate to live in a town where you were in charge. The scum motivation for that kind of vote is totally clear. in short i find your opinion on my points to be garbage. qed The "no u" is noted. | ||
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