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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 03:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: If someone is here talk to me. What do you think of marv's meta read of oats. Marv was town and has been correct almost always. Have you read past oats games. Can you give your opinion on that meat read? | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 03:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably WoS, but i'm still waiting on his/prplhz' answers to my questions. WoS last post where he declared "anyone who thinks i'm scum is silly / scum" seemed genuine and i'm not sure if Tunkeg / Axle had pushed his on D1 the way they did if he was scum with them. prplhz looks worse than before for not taking a clear stance on me/oats/palmar and for waiting for "confirmed" people to talk before saying anything for realz. Interesting. Well I am going to sleep as it is far past my bedtime. I shall endeavour to catch some scum tomorrow. Thanks for your input. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
Don't think marv can call me bad anymore either. LOL. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 10:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: DP: im interested to know what was your conclusion in your chat with me? That you were town. Which was kind of important for me to know as you were one of the question marks in the game before you started appearing crazy townie. Oats was screwed when all the potential scum started looking town. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote: yup. Both of us were sleeping/out. That was probably the tipping point. Marv dying just screwed us over more. Lightning rod should never be ever used again Dandel. It basically takes out the choice in NK day 1 for scum which wouldve been somewhat vital this game. Nah lightning rod was balanced. Anyone who didn't read the OP (surprisingly many players) could have killed it with their vig shot. As a power role it is only mildly useful for town IMO. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote: yup. Both of us were sleeping/out. That was probably the tipping point. Marv dying just screwed us over more. Lightning rod should never be ever used again Dandel. It basically takes out the choice in NK day 1 for scum which wouldve been somewhat vital this game. It's kind of funny that you and marv were yelling at me/calling me stupid so much for calling you scum day one. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 18:59 sciberbia wrote: You should consider yourself lucky DP; calling oats scum nearly got me lynched. Don't let mean old marv get you down  That is true lol. I couldn't believe people wanted to lynch you. :O | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 20:07 Oatsmaster wrote: You mean Palmar/Ace/Marv/Sci town? yeah. balanced. I think this game proved how little stock to put in ideas like that. Marv was dancing to scums tune and you almost mislynched sciberbia. Look how much foolishness and Ver did in Personality 2. I am happy that Dandel Doesn't balance around vets. It's a retarded idea. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote: The thing is, games arent like that. No one ever gets lynched for 'BALANCE REASONS THIS GUY IS SCUM'. There is always the main element of analyzing filters and shit like that. That actually happens all the time. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:01 marvellosity wrote: Just a terrible argument all round really. Extreme example: you put 6 chess grandmasters against 6 amateurs. Chess is a game of complete information, so as long as each team has 3 whites and 3 blacks, the match is completely balanced. But of course it isn't, because experience and ability plays a large factor, and the grandmasters will win every time. Much the same in this particular setup; I bet if you ran a simulation of this game 100 times, this town team would at least 80% of the time. Town ran over mafia despite Palmar and I pushing 2 wrong lynches day 1 and despite the fact i was hard defending a mafia. Almost things couldn't have gone worse for town this game and yet it was still totally one-sided. I'm sure this game was "fun" for town with its totally RNG element, but realistically mafia didn't really have a chance. It's a simple fact that mafia teams need people with thread impact. Essentially you are saying town won because all the good players were town and thus town played well? The argument is should we arrange teams to balance skill or not. I don't think so. Who is good is such a subjective thing in itself and IMO the whole concept detracts from the game in that not ANYONE could be scum because "lol vet blalance" | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:03 Oatsmaster wrote: No. People say that, but no one ever gets lynched off that only. But people look a damn sight harder at those people than they should. It's a clue and it is unnecessary. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:47 Tunkeg wrote: If a host think I am so bad compared to the rest that I need a vet babysitter I'd rather have him tell me to piss off out of his game. LMAO <3 | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
If people want to win more try harder and play better. I don't know how many times I have said this to newbies but if you post more as scum you are harder to catch and look townier. For instance. Oats posted rubbish spammy shit for most of the game. His cases were poor and yet he blended in rather well. Both axle and tunkeg had by far the shortest filters in the game and IMO if they had simple posted bad cases and pushed bad cases and spammed more they would have been far less likely to be caught. I think Scum could have won if Axle had posted as much as I have seen him post in his town games for instance, and without his lynch scum would have been in a pretty good spot. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 11 2013 23:55 wherebugsgo wrote: The only players you can consider for balancing purposes are vets, because they are the only ones with enough games for it to matter. The problem is that there are only a handful of them every game, so if you know a host balances teams, then simply by lynching into the vets your chances of hitting scum increase drastically. marv's argument about how the teams could have been balanced by a host even by letting Ace/marv/Palmar be on town is laughable, given that there's almost no way to reliably differentiate the scum play of the remaining 9 players in this game (no offense to you all). Not only that, but the town arguably might benefit anyway from one of the (now scum) players being moved to town instead. Yeah I don't buy that argument. I am not in favor of 'balanced' set ups but I think that you can have a basic idea of who is more likely to play better as scum. Town not so much. But some players just don't try as hard as scum I think, and it is really obvious. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 12 2013 00:10 marvellosity wrote: Just as a general point, it's more the idea that ace/marv/palmar can organise/direct a mafia team well, and can exert significant thread influence for the benefit of mafia. So could a whole bunch of non vets in this game. I still don't see the point. You know something I have noticed though is that 'town leaders' from newbie games really quiet down in the transition to normals, I think a lot of that has to do with all the vet nonsense and thus they are less likely to contribute or take charge as they have in newbies. I quite like the idea of different players taking charge, or at least having the chance to take charge of a scum team. Having 'good scum players' in every scum team would become stagnant and deprives newer players that opportunity to grow and shine. Even if they don't succeed the opportunity is important. Case in point. Look at oats in this game fucking take charge in the scum QT and improve DRASTICALLY from his last scum game. He rose to the occasion and even if he lost that still has a heap of value. Furthermore, Who doesn't love a good comeback? or the tale of an underdog overcoming the odds and succeeding? I think there are a lot of intangibles to consider that are more important than some easy wins every now and then. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10859 Posts
On April 12 2013 00:20 wherebugsgo wrote: so you're saying for sure at least one player outside of those 3 is definitely better than someone who was actually on the scumteam, and thus you could have balanced the team better? I doubt that, particularly as it would also result in one of those players being shifted over to town (where they almost CERTAINLY would have contributed more) Yep. Perfection and Myself. | ||
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