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1st of all: Sharrant requested roles like america to not be picked by town. No, scum can use it before getting lynched, so it doesn't matter if it outs them. Town needs the best of the best of the best, sir.
My idea: We get to an agreement about a few of the towniest mofos based on activity, interest and good ideas, and accept that they will roll the highest possible numbers and nobody who is town must roll the same.
That will leave a mixed pool of null/scum. Scum's main target will be to stop these elected townies from having these roles, so they will try to use the same draft, maybe while another teammate sends in other numbers to try and snatch the role.
That's where the null townies come into play. They will never use the same numbers as the elected townie mofos, forcing scum to waste their picks on taking away good roles from good townies by using the same numbers, leaving a limited amount of scum who will indeed try to roll good shit, and who has to affront a horde of townies who are less likely to take good roles away from each other.
Bad side: People might not give a fuck about the plan, and people might disagree on someone most believe to be town.
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On April 05 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
1st of all: Sharrant requested roles like america to not be picked by town. No, scum can use it before getting lynched, so it doesn't matter if it outs them. Town needs the best of the best of the best, sir.
My idea: We get to an agreement about a few of the towniest mofos based on activity, interest and good ideas, and accept that they will roll the highest possible numbers and nobody who is town must roll the same.
That will leave a mixed pool of null/scum. Scum's main target will be to stop these elected townies from having these roles, so they will try to use the same draft, maybe while another teammate sends in other numbers to try and snatch the role.
That's where the null townies come into play. They will never use the same numbers as the elected townie mofos, forcing scum to waste their picks on taking away good roles from good townies by using the same numbers, leaving a limited amount of scum who will indeed try to roll good shit, and who has to affront a horde of townies who are less likely to take good roles away from each other.
Bad side: People might not give a fuck about the plan, and people might disagree on someone most believe to be town. What do you suggest those "few of the towniest mofos" pick then?
Just finished skimming the already gigantic thread (bleh). So I will try to focus on that on the next go. Didn't really pay too much attention to that yet.
For now, I'll try to simulate the plan cause I just spat that out spontaneously without playing it through yet.
Three most townish mofos get elected, let's say it's VE, Palmar and Caller. Purely hypothetical obviously.
Town agrees on this:
Palmar 11
Caller 21
VE 31
What can scum do now?
They can do 1 2 to reset Palmar back. 2 2 to reset Caller back etc., or try to roll their own shit and just deal with the fact that these people will get these roles.
That will leave two mafia who will fight rest of town in the 4 - 24 range to get good roles. And if the elected people don't manage to be first in draft, we will also have confirmation that mafia doesn't want them to have good roles.
It's almost like a mayoral election.
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It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum.
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EBWOP: DIrected at raynpelikoneet's list.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum. It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D
I would probably support you as candidate cause I don't think that there can be mostly mafia among the most active and engaged candidates you proposed, so that makes you look quite townie.
##Pick #1: Rayn 
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@ Caller
Reading OP helped a little with that.
The idea is good, there's not really much incentive for mafia to make plans or post at all at this stage. They have an excuse for not being active cause they might say they regard draft discussion as unimportant, so rayn's candidates are good choices. They spontaneously try to get the best out of the game, and if they push bad ideas they might look scummy, as rayn said.
Still have to read them in detail, but this argument holds anyway, given that activity and intention to influence thread are there, argument quality aside.
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Why is Oats just so disruptive (yeah why?). Nay-saying without contributing and calling people scummy when it's not about lynching anyway. It's about picking the towniest looking guys and let them send in the right numbers.
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Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections?
I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on.
If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later.
That's why scum will try to stop this plan.
1. Rayn
2. Gonzaw
3. Vivax (duh)
4.-5. : To find out.
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Oats, waiting for you to rationally explain why my plan is bad, and then riddle me if both rayn and gonzaw are scum when I try to let em get roles first?
Yamato and Mocsta also good candidates, I liked yamato's ideas and mocsta's discussion.
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Sadly, RO's wasn't a scumclaim. He could just shut up or lie about agreeing with sending in the right numbers while he doesn't.
I would like Palmar and VE to comment on this stuff and tell us who they would like to get the first drafts. Not used to them being so disinterested.
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We're wasting time with oats, it's more important to get on an agreement about those who should be picked to get the highest draft numbers. Basically, everyone who agrees on people being top choices post his list, and i will try to throw together a soemwaht-votecount later, upon which the guys elected can base their draft choice on.
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Hi
8 1 here
this needs to undergo psychological experimentation.
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Not really, I think the current game is a mess and a pain to read, and the game could have been much better if people followed the d1 plan. I'll just let the big boys fix that while swimming in this ocean of mental excrements.Not feeling motivated to do much currently. I might take a look at the numbers and try to riddle which people were "too lucky to be town", and correlate it to their attitudes towards each other.
@ mocsta
Didn't agree with all of rayn's list, sharrant for example. But yamato, you and geript were good calls imo. And I don't think scum would play like rayn did, it's that simple.
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Cool, Oats apparently didn't read my posts but keeps saying I'm scum.
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On April 05 2013 20:38 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 20:25 Vivax wrote:
Cool, Oats apparently didn't read my posts but keeps saying I'm scum. Cool Vivax keeps reacting to me calling me scum but never does anything about it. Vivax. who is scum?
Do you know why I said you don't read my posts?
You seem to have a decent chance at being scum for disruptive play. I'd just not be used to a ballsy scum Oats.
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Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it.
obviousone - 234?
Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1
Sinani206 - 7, 2
Visceraeyes - 10, 10
Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember
strongandbig - 234? same first as caller
Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second
restraining order - 6, 2
Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+
artanis[xp] - 11
sharrant - 11
gonzaw - 8
Austinmcc - 8
Keirathi - 8
Palmar - 8
Mocsta - 8
Shelvocke - 8
Deconduo - 8
Vivax - 8, 1
Oatmaster - 8, 1
billmurray - either 8 or didn't send
Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11
I didn't check yet if Rayn counted the numbers properly, but there's no way two scum both send in 8. So there's at max one scum among the 8 pickers. Not sure if someone is able to get away with claiming fake numbers, we can simply simulate what BC did.
So yeah, if you're town and didn't claim your numbers yet, do it. If you don't, you're on my to-lynch list.
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On April 07 2013 06:35 Ghor wrote:
Can everyone put the numbers he sent to the hosts into his signature so I can rebuild the list without digging for needles in the haystack? There is no need for you to keep them secret if you are town.
If you refute to do so, tell me why please.
@ Yamato
I don't have a good grasp of the game currently, have only been reading in a half-assed way, currently only know of Oats accusing me but I don't feel like it's worth it to interact with him.
If you think I'm scum you also have to automatically give each of the 8x pickers a townread unless you are able to explain why two or more scum would pick the same numbers (which would be trading strong roles for town cred, highly unlikely).
Quoted for filter
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On April 07 2013 06:36 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 06:35 Ghor wrote:
Can everyone put the numbers he sent to the hosts into his signature so I can rebuild the list without digging for needles in the haystack? There is no need for you to keep them secret if you are town.
Stop this. The time for doing this is over. There is no reason to suspect people solely based off of the numbers they supposedly picked. Don't waste anyone's time with bull like that.
No, two scum won't pick the same numbers ever. It's valuable information. Unless you can give rational explanation you have no argument and only want to keep us in the dark.
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+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On April 07 2013 06:44 Shelvocke wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 07 2013 06:40 Vivax wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 07 2013 06:36 geript wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 07 2013 06:35 Ghor wrote:
Can everyone put the numbers he sent to the hosts into his signature so I can rebuild the list without digging for needles in the haystack? There is no need for you to keep them secret if you are town.
[/QUOTE]
Stop this. The time for doing this is over. There is no reason to suspect people solely based off of the numbers they supposedly picked. Don't waste anyone's time with bull like that.[/QUOTE]
No, two scum won't pick the same numbers ever. It's valuable information. Unless you can give rational explanation you have no argument and only want to keep us in the dark.[/QUOTE]
In Pick Your Power Insane, three mafia all picked the same first number. It's not a valid argument.[/QUOTE
I checked, you're right :S. Kurumi, Chez, Ace, tnkted. Well, back to orthodox methods it is.
It looked kinda stupid to do from my perspective cause you trade strong roles for a possible argument in your favor, but looks like there were guys doing that.
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Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.
##Vote: Restraining Order
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On April 07 2013 07:03 Shelvocke wrote:
What about the case on Restraining Order did you like?
A lot.
I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe.
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Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick?
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EBWOP: Actually just wrote it down. No need to tell me.
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I'll read through a few filters and write down some thoughts on the go. Mistakes aren't unlikely in the process and not intended.
1. Shelvocke just asked me about VE's case. That means he's well aware of it. Nonetheless he didn't comment on it despite it containing some very strong points in my opinion. I would expect someone to put his scumread's case under more scrutiny and ask him out about it, not sidebump at people agreeing with it.
Ninjad, so:
On April 07 2013 07:42 Shelvocke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick? A lot of the points that he came up with, especially the "lol list scum" and the part about explaining why denying isn't a good strategy have nothing to do with Order's alignment and it appears as if he threw them in solely to inflate his post and make it look as if he is doing something.
The point about the denying thing was good. It showed that RO was arguing for a town NOT arguing about how to design role picks, which is not only bad in itself, but is also a way to discourage discussion. As for the lolist, yeah, that maybe wasn't a strong point but I can see VE throwing that in while digging through the filter.
The point about RO apparently mixing scumreads with his 4/5 townreads still applies and has not been addressed by you.
2. Sno_Man, draft numbers please. You also have one of the best roles out there so it would be interesting to know: Is it KP-based or not (it likely is). Did you take a scumrole, a neutral or a townrole?
3. Geript
On April 06 2013 14:02 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:55 Keirathi wrote:
Yo, broski. How do you know that RO is town? I don't know if he's town or not. I'm saying that from the looks of thread sentiment he looks like a great potential mislynch. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:
... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking.
I played Scum in The Game. That was the clear reference. Have you not been paying attention?
If he looks like a great potential mislynch it should be in your interest to try the hardest to figure out his alignment no? Defending him isn't exactly the way to go. You say he could also be lazy scum, are you trying to get him to play in a way to exclude or confirm that possibility?No, you're doing the opposite.
Also, draft numbers plox.
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Palmar mind giving out your numbers and commenting on VE's case?
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On April 07 2013 08:13 Sn0_Man wrote:
I picked 1,1 I'm pretty sure I shared that. I wasn't in any hurry to share my role, although I understand I might just die N1 on principle since scum know I have something good.
So you didn't deny a strong scum role since you say it's "good" and you didn't pick a survival role either cause you say you might die.
What is it then? KP? I doubt it's investigative. If it's KP you have no reason to not share your role with town, it can also backfire.
How is scum supposed to know your pick or assume it's strong?
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Why would RO claim that he wants to lynch people he judged as town previously based on something he called a "really good heuristic" before?
This what you said, gonzaw:
The thing about RO "wanting" to kill people he previously said would basically be town because of drafting picks is valid; but it's enough to pressure him not enough to make a "case" (specially considering your previous 2 "bad" points).
Ultimately, the ONLY thing you can say against RO is that he wants to kill some people he previously said are likely town. It wouldn't be that bad if you kept pushing it (using RO's consequent reactions and responses as well) and didn't masquerade it with previously bad points.
No, it's not the only thing. Already said it goes against what RO himself said about the heuristic he himself brought up and defended.
RO's whole defense against VE's case was "lol", and Palmar still didn't explain what makes VE scum aside from activity (and I would like to see how he defines that one).
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Explain to me what happened to your heuristic then, even after you said it's really good despite keirathi pointing out that in one game it went otherwise than expected.
What made you change your mind about not considering the heuristic as useful, and why do you throw out "would-lynch-lists" without ever making a case?
I do know who you are, but I respect smurfs who want to keep their identity secret. And I also know your meta differs from your last two scum games, but I also know that you know what I know about your scummeta. So I'll go with what I see in the thread instead of assuming you're town cause you're more active and less trolly than in those games.
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Palmar? deconduo? VE
Keirathi the same as many other players I think (Artanis, austin, ObviousOne)
RO:
And I would lynch all of those people.
The early picks are a place of spotlight. It absolutely makes sense to avoid it.
2-3 people picking 8 could be done under the assumption that few townies would also do so, making it likely for ~half the mafia-team to land in the middle of draft picks - high enough to get decent roles, low enough to avoid spotlight.
You mean you posted the exact opposite of what you said before? My question was: What made you change your mind. I'm reading properly here.
And fyi, mafia has no way of knowing that a majority would pick 8 and place themselves purposely in there, same as the townies who landed in there didn't.
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Well whatever, I feel like I'm getting into nitpicky stuff. Can you give me a quick opinion on Shelvocke instead? Will see how you perform over time instead. Feel free to answer if you want to, it would help me get a better read on you though.
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Artanis still think geript is scum?
Comments on VE and his RO case?
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Anyone else finding S & B scummy?
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On April 07 2013 23:47 deconduo wrote:Why would you make a post like this?
Uh, dunno, let me think. Ah right, to know who agrees with me?
You don't find him scummy, I deduce from your post?
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Oh wait, you actually do according to your filter.
That's cool then, why ask me that question?
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On April 08 2013 00:43 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 00:24 Vivax wrote:On April 07 2013 23:47 deconduo wrote:On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote:
Anyone else finding S & B scummy? Why would you make a post like this? Uh, dunno, let me think. Ah right, to know who agrees with me? You don't find him scummy, I deduce from your post? Either you're not reading the thread at all or you are trying to bandwagon S+B without being blatantly obvious about it. Did you know several people have said he's scummy, and that he's was leading in votes when you posted that? You also gave no reasoning behind the post, it just came out of nowhere. That just screams bandwagon attempt to me.
I didn't take count of those who found S & B scummy, it was just my quick evaluation upon reviewing his filter while looking for his draft numbers. He didn't tell us yet, like Caller and geript.
No need for me to get a bandwagon starting when there already is one, apparently.
+ Show Spoiler +Sn0_man 1,1
obviousone [3][16]
Raynpelikoneet [5] [1]
Sinani206 [7][2]
Visceraeyes 10 10
Geript
strongandbig
Caller
restraining order 6 2
Meapak_ziphh 6 x ?
artanis[xp] [11][1]
sharrant [11] [9]
gonzaw [8,2]
Austinmcc [8][4]
Keirathi 8x
Palmar 8x
Mocsta 8 12
Shelvocke 8 1
Deconduo 81
Vivax 8 1
Oatmaster 81
billmurray
Yamato77 11,11 Not sent in
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Well anyway, I endorse a lynch on the following players currently:
Sno_Man: Didn't deny mafia role, didn't pick survival role, probably KP-based stuff. He's not contributing spontaneously when he should feel imba and important if he was town, eager to get to make the right decision and hence collect information. Scum didn't try to take the 1 1 spots away from him.
S & B was more active in Personality 2 where he pumped out a huge case early in the game. He doesn't seem particularly interested in finding scum at first glance so I'm waiting for him to show up and bring something to the table.
RO is under scrutiny and I find his activity level scummy. I suppose he's lurking even now. He's trolly as town, but also more active. Hard to read cause he's a guy who doesn't give too much of a fuck as either alignment.
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Deconduo I have a question.
Since you have S & B as scumread, why did you look so skeptical towards my question? Would expect you to pop in and say: "Yeah I think he's totes scum too, vote him cause bsbsbsb, go read my case and shit, you're on the right track mate".
Instead you didn't seem to happy about someone actually liking your own scumread, and even would have FOUND IT SCUMMY if I had been trying to start a bandwagon on him.
What gives?
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It's weird, decon. Why would you expect scum to casually jump on a bus wagon against a buddy trying to look like they're not doing so? I actually thought that's what scum would attempt against townies, not scum.
Your reason for finding me scummy isn't really consistent with you finding S & B scummy. Cause in that mindset, I don't think you would fear scum sneaking onto the bandwagon like you thought I was.
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Austin I'm not missing the point at all. Decon is a good boy, he can answer for himself thanks.
He said:
On April 08 2013 01:34 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 01:28 Vivax wrote:
Deconduo I have a question.
Since you have S & B as scumread, why did you look so skeptical towards my question? Would expect you to pop in and say: "Yeah I think he's totes scum too, vote him cause bsbsbsb, go read my case and shit, you're on the right track mate".
Instead you didn't seem to happy about someone actually liking your own scumread, and even would have FOUND IT SCUMMY if I had been trying to start a bandwagon on him.
What gives? I have no problem with you finding S+B scummy. The problem is in the way you phrased your post. 'Does anyone else find S+B scummy?' If you had been reading the thread, or looked at the voting thread you would KNOW this is the case. You are then essentially coming along and saying ' I want to lynch S+B, but lets make it look like I'm not jumping on the bandwagon.' Therefore: 1. You didn't read the thread OR 2. You are doing something incredibly scummy. You came back and verified that it was the first case, so I'm happy for now.
To which I replied:
It's weird, decon. Why would you expect scum to casually jump on a bus wagon against a buddy trying to look like they're not doing so? I actually thought that's what scum would attempt against townies, not scum.
Your reason for finding me scummy isn't really consistent with you finding S & B scummy. Cause in that mindset, I don't think you would fear scum sneaking onto the bandwagon like you thought I was.
He didn't just want to know "if I read the thread", he said exactly this. What I did doesn't play a role, it's in contrast to that certain mindset.
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On April 08 2013 02:45 deconduo wrote:
Seeing as you are having trouble with this Vivax:
-I think X is scummy
-Y votes for X
You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town.
Your own read should be stopping X from being town from your perspective. But you still mentioned it, and that's what I'm holding against you currently. Attacking people for jumping on a bandwagon against your scumread in that way doesn't seem to be one of the objectives you would have if you had S & B really as scum, cause you mentioned an argument for my play being potentially scummy.
An argument that should only concern you if I were joining a bandwagon against someone you don't think to be scum, and not against a scumbuddy.
Should I ever see more reasons to think you're scum, I'll bring this up again cause it's a valid point in my opinion. But for now, I'm not expecting you to reply to this, cause you won't be able to dissuade me from this argument.
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On April 08 2013 02:37 austinmcc wrote:
show that you DID miss the point, at least what I pick up as the point of decon's post. It doesn't matter that he agrees with you on snb, and you know full well that sometimes, someone agreeing with you on a read but in a way you don't like may indicate that they are scum and your read is town and scum sees a good opportunity to move in on building a scumread/causing a mislynch. So the fact you both have snb as scummy shouldn't mean you don't get questioned at all. At least to some extent, you missed that bit, based on how I read your posts.
I missed this. It's a good explanation, puts me better into the perspective. I'll wait to see more from Decon I guess, but I still found it odd for the aforementioned reasons. Guess I'll lay back a little and look for other stuff.
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I'm willing to give S & B slack now, if he has rl issues. But if he can't play the game properly on the long term cause of those he should rather opt for a replacement. Being a wildcard doesn't help town.
Gonzaw, took a look through Artanis filter and his defense to your case, but I don't see stuff striking me as scummy. I thought he was scum in British for his defensive play, and the smaller posts can be explained through the lower motivation in a big game like he explained.
You also mention a thing in your case where Artanis called out geript for giving out a controversial opinion to geript:
I just can't believe Artanis is serious with that accusation. It seems he saw something random from geript and decided to use it against him without even thinking about it, it's the only explanation I can find.
You don't believe he is serious with it, but it does indeed look...controversial from geript to have written that thing. I don't think you can hold that against Artanis for example outside of your belief that he wasn't serious with it.
Or calling his aggressive behaviour fake. I don't see why you arbitrarily call it either aggressive or fake.
I don't know if there's just a lot of confirmation bias in that case, gonzaw, but it didn't convince me, tbh it looks like you added too many extras to it :o[
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On April 08 2013 05:21 deconduo wrote:
Not really feeling the case on Artanis at the moment.
I've just read over Sno's filter from the 3 Newbie games he was in. First of all, he posted a shitload more in the first two games he played. He was active, he made good cases and generally played well. He was town in both games.
In his third game he subbed in as scum about 2/3 of the way through. He posted a lot less than his first two games, and got lynched pretty quickly. However as this was a sub-in I wouldn't put too much weight in this. He also still posted a hell of a lot more than he has so far this game.
I'd be almost willing to vote him on this alone, but it could be some RL reasons keeping him from posting.
Only one way to find out, let's hold hands and call him to us.
##Vote Sno_Man
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Gonzaw, for a start, ask that mofo sinani why he only shows up when you claim vig to tell you to shoot BM. Force him to make a case cause his entrance just now was ugh. It was his first post since quite a lot of time when it shouldn't have been such a post.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions:
VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge.
Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town.
Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him.
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
##Vote: StrongandBig
And I would also like to add that I don't like people who mention their null reads for no reason, except maybe for looking like they're doing more than they actually are. This post is a good example of that, and he also keeps a nice balance here.
Town, null, null with a red tinge and scum. But asks you to shoot BM who isn't among these.
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On April 08 2013 07:37 gonzaw wrote:
Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?
Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something.
Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up
I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.
RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.
Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot you :/
Artanis is not the type who should be shot cause he does give a fuck about his image (as opposed to RO, for example). Go for trolls and lurky stuff.
Sno_Man, RO, Sinani, Caller. Not sure about BM but at least activity doesn't seem to be much of a concern lol. Not gonna cry over those if you shoot them.
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Did you guys even read which targets gonzaw considered for the shot? It wasn't Artanis, those were Shelvocke and Sno_Man.
RO either doesn't read or uses a WIFOM argument on a wrong base without considering all other options.
This is how gonzaw wanted to use his role initially:
I still don't get what makes Shevlocke scummier than Artanis.....like..did I miss a scumslip or something >_>
I mean, I get how someone can think of him as scum.....but I'm missing how Artanis looks better than him, and I'm missing that "he's definitely scum" way I feel about scum :/
I will say that the more Shevlocke fails to appear and contribute, the more I feel like I could shoot him as well.
I'm torn between sno and shevlocke (although Shevlocke is more of a "yeah he could be scum, but I'm not sure if he should be a lynch (because of stuff explained before); maybe straight up killing him outside of lynch would be better"), leaning on sno.
So if you gotta ride the WIFOM-train, putting it all onto Artanis is scummy as shit. See RO for details.
I want to lynch into RO, Sno, maybe Shelvocke, but need to get to a conclusion first, I found him kinda scummy earlier on. Sinani also looks bad. This is a big game, scum can hide, everyone having their eyes on the most active dudes should think twice about lynching them.
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It's a double-edged sword, it tells scum where they don't have to shoot and is not reliable towards townies. Everyone can lie about being a VT while having a role. If anything it's a bad idea.
I'm also considering VE for lynch currently, I didn't see anything of what he promised so far, and his pushes are less than half-assed.
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If Caller shoots Artanis I'm not opting for anything but his lynch until he's dead.
I will admit that geript's claim was useful though. But that's a special case.
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On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas.
Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters.
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Artanis let's talk reads, why should we be lynching Shelvocke over Sno_man?
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On April 09 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:58 Ghor wrote:On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas. Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters. Nope VE lynched today.. hes basically unkillable day or night (if NRA.. which as SnB pointed out seems likely based on his playstyle of trying to draw that attention)
That is too speculative at this stage. Use orthodox arguments please. We don't know if he has NRA, we don't know if geript's claim is true, we don't know why he doesn't post much (he's not posting much either in a parallel game).
I don't like how VE is playing but he's not the first guy I'd lynch today I think. RO, Sinani and Sno are my favourite targets.
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And Caller if he isn't bluffing and Artanis flips green.
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Well for what it's worth, Rayn, you never gave a fuck about Artanis up to this point, so if anything you spitting out a townread in this situation just makes you look worse and seeking for cred. If you really thought Artanis was town you'd not be that careless about Caller's shot.
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On April 09 2013 00:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:12 Vivax wrote:
Well for what it's worth, Rayn, you never gave a fuck about Artanis up to this point, so if anything you spitting out a townread in this situation just makes you look worse and seeking for cred. If you really thought Artanis was town you'd not be that careless about Caller's shot. I havn't given a fuck about anything up to this point. I was reading VE's filter te see if there was anything that would change my mind on him. I then looked at Artanis and gave my thoughts about him aswell. I had no real stance on VE/Artanis before i finished reading the filters. If it makes me scummy that Caller shot or "shot" him before i was able to put up a post that contributes to the situation and actually gives out my real thoughts so be it. Why do you want to kill Caller if Artanis flips green? Why is it impossible that Caller is town and has a strong scum read on Artanis and he is just wrong about it?
Cause we don't know if Caller plays like an idiot cause he's mafia or is genuinely an idiot.
Since there is this huge fallacy in people's minds that you must not lynch anything that looks like blatant obvious anti-town-shit, you are forced do exactly that even if it goes against your WIFOM-sense.
Caller's actions had nothing townie about them, so we lynch him if Artanis flips green. Artanis is a terrible vig target cause he attempts to make himself readable. That's why vigs are supposed to shoot trolls and lurkers, they just might not give a fuck about getting lynched and wasting 48 hours discussing nothing while waiting for their death does not help anybody.
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Question:
Before Caller claimed a shot:
[spoiler]
On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly  I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk..sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3
After Caller claimed the shot:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas. On April 09 2013 00:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:01 Vivax wrote:On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas. Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters. I don't know if Caller actually shot him because there is nothing that implies so at least yet. And no, i will not lynch Caller if he shot Artanis and he flips green. On April 09 2013 00:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:12 Vivax wrote:
Well for what it's worth, Rayn, you never gave a fuck about Artanis up to this point, so if anything you spitting out a townread in this situation just makes you look worse and seeking for cred. If you really thought Artanis was town you'd not be that careless about Caller's shot. I havn't given a fuck about anything up to this point. I was reading VE's filter te see if there was anything that would change my mind on him. I then looked at Artanis and gave my thoughts about him aswell. I had no real stance on VE/Artanis before i finished reading the filters. If it makes me scummy that Caller shot or "shot" him before i was able to put up a post that contributes to the situation and actually gives out my real thoughts so be it. Why do you want to kill Caller if Artanis flips green? Why is it impossible that Caller is town and has a strong scum read on Artanis and he is just wrong about it?
Background: Artanis had him as scum but didn't interact with him since declaring it, and neither did Rayn. No followup in pushing him from Artanis.
Artanis' read on Rayn:
Raynpelikoneet
Contradicted my RNG plan without a real reason. Nominates himself as towniest very quickly. Calls everyone that pushed ideas town. Randomly passes by scumreads whilst only having talked about setup before then, doesn't explain why. Massive amount of oneliners that clutter up the thread and say very little/nothing. His paranoia and flailing about in the last two pages of his filter make me hesitant, but still leaning scum.
Can you see these being scum interactions or just plain WIFOM?
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On April 09 2013 05:19 geript wrote:
I definitely can see Austin as scum. Look at how many times he defends both VE and Artanis. Off the top of my head this reminds me of his game in IIRC personality 2. I also utilized him a decent amount in my first newbie game here; I don't have a great understanding of his mindset, but I'm not terribly remembering a similar mindset here.
##FOS austinmcc
I do somewhat suspect him too cause he seemed to dodge the artanis/VE issue (albeit referring to it at some point I can't remember).
He is able to produce monumental amounts of text so it's pretty hard to get over it and conclude he could be scum just for the amount of stuff he posts.
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On April 09 2013 05:31 Palmar wrote:
also shame on the people who were going to back off artanis when gonzaw was shot for calling him scum.
I still claim that it has no weight as reason alone. Gonzaw's case instead seemed to be spot on. Even after going through Artanis filter I believe I'd not have thought he'd be scum anytime soon, if he survived.
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On April 09 2013 06:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
@Austin: Vivax e-famous for making no sense
You gonna get raped
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On April 09 2013 06:30 Restraining Order wrote:Actually Vivax is 100% scum. Through and through. Vigis, shoot the guy. If not, we lynch the guy tomorrow. I will not accept anything short of his cold, dead body.So, in summary BOTH flipped mafia implicate him heavily. For Artanis it's on either side, for VE obviously not really since VE didn't actually post. Summaries of both below, first comes Vivax' part, then the confirmed mafia's side. VE:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote:
Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.
##Vote: Restraining Order Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote:On April 07 2013 07:03 Shelvocke wrote:
What about the case on Restraining Order did you like? A lot. I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick? Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 08:05 Vivax wrote:
Palmar mind giving out your numbers and commenting on VE's case? VE's case is apparantly good, huh. I never knew. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:I'll read through a few filters and write down some thoughts on the go. Mistakes aren't unlikely in the process and not intended. [1]1. Shelvocke just asked me about VE's case. That means he's well aware of it. Nonetheless he didn't comment on it despite it containing some very strong points in my opinion. [2] I would expect someone to put his scumread's case under more scrutiny and ask him out about it, not sidebump at people agreeing with it. Ninjad, so: On April 07 2013 07:42 Shelvocke wrote:On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick? A lot of the points that he came up with, especially the "lol list scum" and the part about explaining why denying isn't a good strategy have nothing to do with Order's alignment and it appears as if he threw them in solely to inflate his post and make it look as if he is doing something. The point about the denying thing was good. It showed that RO was arguing for a town NOT arguing about how to design role picks, which is not only bad in itself, but is also a way to discourage discussion. As for the lolist, yeah, that maybe wasn't a strong point but I can see VE throwing that in while digging through the filter. [3]The point about RO apparently mixing scumreads with his 4/5 townreads still applies and has not been addressed by you. [1]: "I'll make mistakes, but that's totally not scummy because I warned you! And if my opinions turn out to be bullshit, well it wasn't intentional, okay!?!?" This is just scummy and not part of the association, but I cba to repeat this later. [2]: "I am suspicious of you for not commenting on VE's case" But that's not all he says with it, he AGAIN underlines how great and grand VE's case is. [3]: So the case was awesome and everything, but points that are clearly just strewn in to inflate its size are merely "not strong". No need for concern guys. That's totally not something that should give a townie a pause while reading it, it's merely "not strong". And we of course can all understand the motivation for putting it in there, right?? Right?? Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 08:49 Vivax wrote:
RO's whole defense against VE's case was "lol", and Palmar still didn't explain what makes VE scum aside from activity (and I would like to see how he defines that one). First part we've heard already I think. Second part is a blatant defense of VE. Quelle surprise. Then, for a long time, he simply ignores VE. Once it becomes clear that VE is a very real lynch target and he can do nothing to stop it, time for a tactics switch: Let's soft-push without commiting to it! Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:11 Vivax wrote:
I'm also considering VE for lynch currently, I didn't see anything of what he promised so far, and his pushes are less than half-assed. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:05 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 23:58 Ghor wrote:On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas. Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters. Nope VE lynched today.. hes basically unkillable day or night (if NRA.. which as SnB pointed out seems likely based on his playstyle of trying to draw that attention) That is too speculative at this stage. Use orthodox arguments please. We don't know if he has NRA, we don't know if geript's claim is true, we don't know why he doesn't post much (he's not posting much either in a parallel game). I don't like how VE is playing but he's not the first guy I'd lynch today I think. RO, Sinani and Sno are my favourite targets. He might not be the role he is, don't believe true things too easily! I want to call him scummy so I look like I call him out, but obviously I'd rather lynch townies and have no intention of lynching VE! (yes, this translates to me giving both sinani and sno townreads, deal with it) On VE's side there's not much, but there's something! Almost a miracle with that little activity.... Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote:In what way is this post On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote:
Anyone else finding S & B scummy? any different from this post? On April 07 2013 10:06 deconduo wrote:
Yeah, after reading his filter again
## Vote strongandbig You accuse Vivax of trying to "bandwagon" SnB but you yourself opened your "content" by similarly voting SnB with no reasoning. You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown? Palmar I'm quite interested in why you think decon is town. That feels kinda like fucking bullshit from you. ##Unvote
##Vote deconduo Also known as: Where VE pushes a guy that's suspicious of Vivax.Coincidence? I think not. Apart from this, VE never mentions Vivax.
Artanis:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:54 Vivax wrote:
Artanis still think geript is scum?
Comments on VE and his RO case? Easy as shit to do interaction, asking basically for a "yes" and a +1. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 05:13 Vivax wrote:Gonzaw, took a look through Artanis filter and his defense to your case, but I don't see stuff striking me as scummy. I thought he was scum in British for his defensive play, and the smaller posts can be explained through the lower motivation in a big game like he explained. [1]You also mention a thing in your case where Artanis called out geript for giving out a controversial opinion to geript:
I just can't believe Artanis is serious with that accusation. It seems he saw something random from geript and decided to use it against him without even thinking about it, it's the only explanation I can find.
You don't believe he is serious with it, but it does indeed look...controversial from geript to have written that thing. I don't think you can hold that against Artanis for example outside of your belief that he wasn't serious with it. [2]Or calling his aggressive behaviour fake. I don't see why you arbitrarily call it either aggressive or fake. [3]I don't know if there's just a lot of confirmation bias in that case, gonzaw, but it didn't convince me, tbh it looks like you added too many extras to it :o[ [4] [1]: "oh yes I totally looked at Artanis and I'm scumhunting and contributing, believe me. But I think a scum is town because [vague annotations about meta], thanks!" Further problems with this: He notes how he misread him in British as a reason for him to be wary of calling him scum. This is complete BS. Vivax has read me 100% wrong in EVERY game we have played together, apart from maybe LX if you want to nitpick, but ofc we were both scum there. DOES THAT MOTIVATE HIM TO REASSESS HIS READ ON ME IN ANY WAY? HELL NO. This is a textbook example of preferrential treatment. And of course, to top it off, he 'believes' Artanis' stupid excuse for not being active in an instant. [2]: Highlighting the relevant part again: "I don't think you can hold that against Artanis". Of course not. Who would hold anything against Artanis?!? [3]: "His agressive behavior isn't fake at all! Actually it's not even agressive at all! Actually it's not even behavior! Actually I'm not even town!" Eh. You get the gist. [4]: Case on artanis is, obviously, not convincing. Confirmation bias and such. Sure beans. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 07:41 Vivax wrote:On April 08 2013 07:37 gonzaw wrote:
Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?
Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something.
Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up
I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.
RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.
Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot you :/Artanis is not the type who should be shot cause he does give a fuck about his image (as opposed to RO, for example). Go for trolls and lurky stuff. Sno_Man, RO, Sinani, Caller. Not sure about BM but at least activity doesn't seem to be much of a concern lol. Not gonna cry over those if you shoot them. "Artanis shouldn't be shot. Don't shoot scum. I'd prefer if you shoot trolls and lurkers instead." Of course he wouldn't shed tears for dead townies. scumslip scumslip ololololololol (writing so much makes me bored, sorry about that) Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:04 Vivax wrote:Did you guys even read which targets gonzaw considered for the shot? It wasn't Artanis, those were Shelvocke and Sno_Man. RO either doesn't read or uses a WIFOM argument on a wrong base without considering all other options. This is how gonzaw wanted to use his role initially:
I still don't get what makes Shevlocke scummier than Artanis.....like..did I miss a scumslip or something >_>
I mean, I get how someone can think of him as scum.....but I'm missing how Artanis looks better than him, and I'm missing that "he's definitely scum" way I feel about scum :/
I will say that the more Shevlocke fails to appear and contribute, the more I feel like I could shoot him as well.
I'm torn between sno and shevlocke (although Shevlocke is more of a "yeah he could be scum, but I'm not sure if he should be a lynch (because of stuff explained before); maybe straight up killing him outside of lynch would be better"), leaning on sno.
So if you gotta ride the WIFOM-train, putting it all onto Artanis is scummy as shit. See RO for details. I want to lynch into RO, Sno, maybe Shelvocke, but need to get to a conclusion first, I found him kinda scummy earlier on. Sinani also looks bad. This is a big game, scum can hide, everyone having their eyes on the most active dudes should think twice about lynching them. Wifom argument that the gonzaw shot doesn't implicate Artanis at all. You know who said the same thing? Oh yes, Artanis! Hmmm. Going after Artanis is also scummy as shit, apparantly. We've seen the rest a hundred times already by now, only now Shelvocke is included. Who Artanis is currently pushing. Who is clearly getting prepared for a full scum-team push on him here. Just FYI. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:36 Vivax wrote:
If Caller shoots Artanis I'm not opting for anything but his lynch until he's dead. Watch out Caller, you gonna get nightkilled. There are some more threats to Caller about him killing Artanis, but I'm getting lazy. Artanis' side of things: Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 23:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If we're going to policy lynch I'd rather lynch Vivax. Looks entirely unremarkable. It is. It's also never seriously considered or followed up on. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths.
Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing.
He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal? This doesn't actually say anything of value either. Let's go full confirmation bias and say "Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM" is an excuse to excuse Vivax' scummy behavior because he apparantly always does that. Then his read/list post states: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Vivax
Vivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town. Oh a townread. Because Vivax is supposedly not playing to either meta, and is apparantly 'cooperative'. What he forgets though, and continues to forget, is Vivax' scum play in LVIII. Which showed a marked absence of the raving moronic town Vivax we all rightfully hate. Guess what? This town Vivax is also not present in this game. But that little piece of meta will go ignored. Better not bring it up, and hope nobody else does. *insert 2 one-liners repeating his above read I cba to quote* Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. LX as the sole hallmark for Vivax' scumplay. Aren't we forgetting a game? Luckily, dandy dan is here for you. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote:On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really? It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire. No, that's dumb because if scum will shoot him 100% of the time for the reasons I stated then any potential extra reasons are completely moot. On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. Did you read LVIII? Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. You only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet? I read LX and British Empire II. So, when I'm obviously implying that he has played like he does this game exactly once before, and it was a scumgame, it would not do to check it and take a stance on that. Of course not. So yeah Vivax is like, maaaaafia and shit.
Through and through is austrianglish.
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Palmar where do they teach you wizardry? I need lessons.
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I'd probably think I'm scum myself in some other townies' shoes. Got all my reads wrong, was willing to lynch VE but not ahead of others, defended Artanis.
Whyyyy
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You think Oats, austin, Sno_man is really the final scumteam?it's kinda the thing that falls spontaneously in mind. No particular reason.
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RO.
Oats, austin Sno final scumteam.
Thoughts?
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Or this dude maybe?
On April 08 2013 01:18 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Gonzaw <3 I had forgotten about Artanis/hadn't felt like I had enough evidence to go after him. That part that really rang a bell for me was that He's made a few posts that are like three paragraphs long so they look like a solid post but in fact don't say anything... my dear old friend CWC (contributing without contributing) doing work.
I'd like more people to comment on my shevlocke case which, while I feel it is weaker than the artanis case, is my number two suspect.
I also feel that vivax is scummy, however he's like number three on my list.
Two people I want opinions on are Strongandbig and sharrant. Not sure what to make of either of them atm.
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Yeah MZ looks like a fine lynch.
Oats has like 10 pages of filter so it wasn't the best name to throw into the mix.
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Shooting me N1 would be the greatest compliment I'd have ever received in this game. Won't happen, and I don't even give much of a fuck.
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On April 09 2013 09:33 yamato77 wrote:
If MZ is mafia, my e-peen will grow approximate 100 feet.
I suspected you have a feet fetish.
You're asking for Shenlong to be shot though.
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On April 09 2013 09:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:11 Vivax wrote:
I'd probably think I'm scum myself in some other townies' shoes. Got all my reads wrong, was willing to lynch VE but not ahead of others, defended Artanis.
Whyyyy Can I have thoughts on Yam about turn with Artanis?
I see yamato being wrong with his preferences at the wrong time. Don't think scum was defending Artanis anyway, it was futile, I was already doing the job for them and they saw it didn't work.
They'd rather do stuff a la MZ like agreeing a little with the case while trying to push other targets. I find it weird that yamato wants Shenlong lynched, a lot of scummy candidates tried to get him lynched.
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Palmar your race avatar looks like a turd with a hook.
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On April 09 2013 09:49 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:47 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2013 09:38 Mocsta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:11 Vivax wrote:
I'd probably think I'm scum myself in some other townies' shoes. Got all my reads wrong, was willing to lynch VE but not ahead of others, defended Artanis.
Whyyyy Can I have thoughts on Yam about turn with Artanis? I see yamato being wrong with his preferences at the wrong time. Don't think scum was defending Artanis anyway, it was futile, I was already doing the job for them and they saw it didn't work. They'd rather do stuff a la MZ like agreeing a little with the case while trying to push other targets. I find it weird that yamato wants Shenlong lynched, a lot of scummy candidates tried to get him lynched. who da fuq is shenlong? You know the above sounds reasonable, but, artanis also sounded reasonable in the final stages. Im still figuring out whether Artanis was hard defending a town read (like BH to Good Karma in "the game") The RO case looks good though. Did you end up rebuttling it? Because i dont think i saw anything.
I think I won't rebut it. I look like I look and I'll rather spend time talking about others. At least for not wanting to lynch Artanis I already posted my reasoning, as for VE he's been similarly inactive in a running game so I didn't put too much into that. I bought VE's case on RO. That's basically all I have to say to my defense.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2013 09:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:47 Vivax wrote:
Don't think scum was defending Artanis anyway, it was futile, I was already doing the job for them and they saw it didn't work. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:14 Vivax wrote:
You think Oats, austin, Sno_man is really the final scumteam?it's kinda the thing that falls spontaneously in mind. No particular reason. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote:
RO.
Oats, austin Sno final scumteam.
Thoughts? Welcome to the game, Vivax.
Hi.
Don't put too much importance into that mix, I pulled it out of my hat. I'm in a trolly mood.
I'm serious about what I wrote about MZ and yamato though. I actually read a little of their filters before posting.
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On April 09 2013 09:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:51 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2013 09:49 Mocsta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:47 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2013 09:38 Mocsta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:11 Vivax wrote:
I'd probably think I'm scum myself in some other townies' shoes. Got all my reads wrong, was willing to lynch VE but not ahead of others, defended Artanis.
Whyyyy Can I have thoughts on Yam about turn with Artanis? I see yamato being wrong with his preferences at the wrong time. Don't think scum was defending Artanis anyway, it was futile, I was already doing the job for them and they saw it didn't work. They'd rather do stuff a la MZ like agreeing a little with the case while trying to push other targets. I find it weird that yamato wants Shenlong lynched, a lot of scummy candidates tried to get him lynched. who da fuq is shenlong? You know the above sounds reasonable, but, artanis also sounded reasonable in the final stages. Im still figuring out whether Artanis was hard defending a town read (like BH to Good Karma in "the game") The RO case looks good though. Did you end up rebuttling it? Because i dont think i saw anything. I think I won't rebut it. I look like I look and I'll rather spend time talking about others. At least for not wanting to lynch Artanis I already posted my reasoning, as for VE he's been similarly inactive in a running game so I didn't put too much into that. I bought VE's case on RO. That's basically all I have to say to my defense. Im going to cut you some slack (sorry RO). Like I said to Geript (about Austin) if you are scum, I think it will become more clear through individual actions as the game progresses (as opposed to association tells). I like the above, its simple and completely reasonable. Regardless of your presence, you are playing more like 'The Game" than "Mafia LX"; which I will treat for the time being as a town tell. =============\ There was debate particuarly from Oats/Austin on whether town should fire night KP. What is your stance? If town KP is available, do you think it is worth using it, on the chance that a janitor is used?
When people were discussing the janitor role I didn't deem it as powerful as it looked.In case of doubt simply assume no scum died. I'm fine with town shooting but I'm not fine with town claiming the shot in that case. It only means they want to get the cred if they claim the shot.
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On April 09 2013 10:12 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:59 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2013 09:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:47 Vivax wrote:
Don't think scum was defending Artanis anyway, it was futile, I was already doing the job for them and they saw it didn't work. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:14 Vivax wrote:
You think Oats, austin, Sno_man is really the final scumteam?it's kinda the thing that falls spontaneously in mind. No particular reason. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote:
RO.
Oats, austin Sno final scumteam.
Thoughts? Welcome to the game, Vivax. Hi. Don't put too much importance into that mix, I pulled it out of my hat. I'm in a trolly mood. I'm serious about what I wrote about MZ and yamato though. I actually read a little of their filters before posting. I'm not putting any importance on that mix. I'm welcoming you to the game, because those were very Vivaxy posts and I smiled at them.
Awwww. I'm feeling all teletubby now.
On April 09 2013 10:21 Keirathi wrote:
Someone (Palmar? decon? Caller?) give me a rundown on what you expect from town MZ vs scum MZ.
Because I went back to LVIII (the only game I've played with him), and his entire contributions to the thread before he died was trying to lynch Palmar (town), marv (town), then callilng Palmar and supersoft (scum) town a bunch. While bitching about the length of the thread, and riding along with the bandwagons. I can't honestly say I expect much from MZ, at least based on that game.
But he called Artanis scum this time.
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Palmar was town in that game btw.
The thing about MZ is that he called Artanis scum and gonzaw's case better than his own while poking others about other players. He tried hard to look like he wasn't making any mistakes with positioning himself.
But that's currently pretty much the only thing I paid attention to in his filter. Let's see if we even need to make cases.
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On April 10 2013 07:07 Restraining Order wrote:
So, OO took a mere 37 minutes to read 2 days worth of gametime, and find a scumread (that's not called Vivax) he's certain of all in one.
I am unsure on how serious I should take that.
I love that you aren't any better than me though.
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I do agree on ObviousOne though, I noticed that he only spent time bullshitting around after posting his Artanis case. Looks to me like he only posted it to look good.
Here, filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=73#1456
He was also the 7th or 8th to vote for him, and the fact he felt the need to post such an extensive case only makes him look worse when he could have simply sheeped or pushed others to vote for him.
If you shoot OO you're the next hero.
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I wanna lynch Sno_Man or OO. I'm starting to find Mocsta interesting.
I don't think austin is a good target for nuke, he's talkative enough and doesn't troll.
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That was really un-american MZ. You forgot to write everything in caps.
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Are we supposed to claim or what?
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On April 11 2013 01:05 Restraining Order wrote:
Kill mocsta and vivax.
with fire.
vivax think you blemblem. complete strudel
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I voted OO btw.
Let's lynch him.
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Wait why should I claim again? No one wants to lynch me.
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First I want to feel more threatened. You pussies don't scare me.
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Mocsta let's lynch ObviousOne.
That'd be real gangsta.
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On April 11 2013 02:00 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta let's lynch ObviousOne.
That'd be real gangsta. What would be gangsta about it? Why do you wish to be gangsta? How will it help town win this mafia game?
He expressed interest into VE when he got under pressure, promised to look into him, never did.But was fine with throwing around his other two reads.
+ Show Spoiler +
VE: I've been aware he's in two games since I am/was on the replacement list for his other game (Noir Mini I) so I expect this game to suffer more due to the nature of Noir being instant majority. I'll review him as we approach the midpoint of day so there's hopefully something more there.
Keirathi: I'm more green than null on Kei, but that's more bias based on how I perceive him as a person than a player so now that he's finished jerking off for 12 hours straight [lol take a nap, dude] should be able to identify if my bias is clouding my perception of him.
RO: He's another one I will want to review before the midpoint of day. I believe I mentioned earlier his D0 was more helpful/proactive than he was all game in LX [my opinion, didn't review LX] so he's at least Null.
He started summarizing inconclusive meta points about Artanis when he got under pressure
+ Show Spoiler +@Gonzaw:
Artanis[XP] mafia meta highlights based on his one recorded scum game in the database: Haunted Mafia
- Replaced into game at P64
- GG out P116
- Total of perhaps 8 "useful" posts over 50 pages
Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:
- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games
- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool
- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself
- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction
I'm looking for something more recent, but Artanis tends to host games rather than play... search filter only went back to March 2012 and the database shows no scum games other than Haunted.
to show up the day after as 8th to vote for him with an extensive meta case, but barely considering what had been happening in the thread, and never pushing for any lynch despite posting such a huge case (which was at a weird time cause Artanis was already dead, basically, and imo he only posted it to look good after flip.
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Also, he's really obvious.
hahahahahahahahhahhahhhahhahhahaahahhahahhaaaa
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I'm confirmed town though, Palmar gave me a townread
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I wondered why Decon and rayn died though. Here, have some juicy stuff that tends to be dismissed as WIFOM.
On April 09 2013 04:41 deconduo wrote:
I come home to 300 posts and 2 mafia dead? Nice one guys.
Sinani and Shelvocke next please.
On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum.
On April 09 2013 05:22 Caller wrote:
i'm bad so lets lynch obviousone tomorrow actually
On April 10 2013 07:49 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:32 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum. I most certainly have not claimed anything of the sort. Plus I'm not scum (not so sure about ObviousOne but there are only 3 scum left and I have a lot of people who i think could be scum already). Nice try though. shut up scum
On April 09 2013 09:13 Palmar wrote:
so who's shooting that sn0 dude?
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Austin, did you have weapons of mass destruction after all?
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On April 11 2013 02:35 Vivax wrote:I wondered why Decon and rayn died though. Here, have some juicy stuff that tends to be dismissed as WIFOM. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 04:41 deconduo wrote:
I come home to 300 posts and 2 mafia dead? Nice one guys.
Sinani and Shelvocke next please. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:22 Caller wrote:
i'm bad so lets lynch obviousone tomorrow actually Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:49 Palmar wrote:On April 10 2013 07:32 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum. I most certainly have not claimed anything of the sort. Plus I'm not scum (not so sure about ObviousOne but there are only 3 scum left and I have a lot of people who i think could be scum already). Nice try though. shut up scum
Oo, Sinani, Shelvocke and Sno should look through and give out reads of each other.
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Who of you is the NKVD agent and who the normal cop?
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Imo the invention is fake or has been created by scum, and the result is unreliable. The inventor's choice to give it to keirathi rather than someone like geript who played a huge role during D1's lynches makes it questionable.
+ Show Spoiler +Lie detectors don't exist, they're just used by psychologists to trick people.
On another note, there's nothing stopping Keirathi from fakeclaiming a correct (?) DT check on the almost dead austin, and it happened right around the time where MZ shot the nuke.
Keirathi actually claimed at this time 11:24 and this time 11:26, and MZ shot during 11:27.
Do you see any purpose in Keirathi not playing like a smart cop and blowing up his cover to say austin is town, rather than wait to see if he's even getting lynched during the day? I don't, I think there's a decent chance this might be scum powerplay.
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On April 11 2013 09:14 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote:
Imo the invention is fake or has been created by scum, and the result is unreliable. From the OP: Show nested quote +You can't give yourself anything, and you must tell me how your invention works so I can PM the other player (you cannot trick them to how the invention works). So you can choose not to believe me if you want, but the check is legit. Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote:The inventor's choice to give it to keirathi rather than someone like geript who played a huge role during D1's lynches makes it questionable. + Show Spoiler +Lie detectors don't exist, they're just used by psychologists to trick people. On another note, there's nothing stopping Keirathi from fakeclaiming a correct (?) DT check on the almost dead austin, and it happened right around the time where MZ shot the nuke. Keirathi actually claimed at this time 11:24 and this time 11:26, and MZ shot during 11:27. Do you see any purpose in Keirathi not playing like a smart cop and blowing up his cover to say austin is town, rather than wait to see if he's even getting lynched during the day? I don't, I think there's a decent chance this might be scum powerplay. Yes, it is possible that I am making a powerplay in conjunction with sinani and Meapak. Honestly anyone who isn't looking at my play critically is just not putting in their due dilligence; I was wrong about artanis, and indecisive about VE. I've played quite poorly in that regard. My check and claim on austin was not a poor decision though. I made it quite clear that austin was my top suspect towards the end of the night. If I came in and started defending austin after the day post, it would have been effectively the same thing as a claim. And besides, austin is a major thread presence, and I wanted people to be able to look at his thoughts and opinions as genuine.
Defending him would have had the same effect, and seeing who wanted to vote for austin with the knowledge that he's town and lots of town suspected him would have been helpful knowledge. You also put yourself on a silver plate for NKs or roleblocks. If you are really DT I don't think that was good play, sorry. MZ just nuking austin afterwards might have been bad luck, I can't exclude it, but with all the things that look scummy and that can't be explained properly, it's better to get rid of them.
I, for one, would want to lynch MZ now. OO still looks scummy but I don't want to keep someone doing something as despicable as shooting a contributing suspect out of nowhere. If we keep MZ around today he'll just be a liability in finding scum later, and made himself attackable for any time, if he's town, and I don't think anyone could vouch for his innocence unless they DT-check him.
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I don't really see the purpose in claiming could you enlighten me again?
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On April 11 2013 09:39 Mocsta wrote:
o vivax thats a twist of events
austin wasnt the strongest scum.cndidate going forward.today
to release the check is protown as its meant to remove an option from discussion so we can focus better
What if I fakeclaim, oh look I tried to pick cop it wasn't available sowwy I'm just a VT.
Nothing going to change if I claim. Scum can lie, and it doesn't make anyone town. I'd rather show I'm town through my actions, not help scum choose their NK targets.
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On April 11 2013 09:53 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2013 09:39 Mocsta wrote:
o vivax thats a twist of events
austin wasnt the strongest scum.cndidate going forward.today
to release the check is protown as its meant to remove an option from discussion so we can focus better What if I fakeclaim, oh look I tried to pick cop it wasn't available sowwy I'm just a VT. Nothing going to change if I claim. Scum can lie, and it doesn't make anyone town. I'd rather show I'm town through my actions, not help scum choose their NK targets. Thats not a response to what i said. I commented that u think austin and kei and sno doing a power play. U talkjng about the claim. Im not asking u to claim. Im just saying u r the hold up.
I don't leave any stone unturned. I don't have enough base to claim they're doing powerplay, but I have a base to say hat MZ and OO look really really really scummy.
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Wait why was Caller scum? Sorry but it seems like I missed something and reading thread 2 hard.
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On April 11 2013 11:31 geript wrote:
Vivax scum
Diagnose me please. That looks incomplete.
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Keirathi I went a little through your filter and it looks pretty good so I'm excluding crazy play from your side for the moment.
I find your reasons for not suspecting MZ lacking though, it seems to come down to this post:
On April 08 2013 13:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
we can wifom what scum want us to think by the gonzaw kill from here till kingdom come but we won't get anywhere. Ultimately we need to stick with artanis as he has been consistently scummy and pushed by a now confirmed townie.
@Yamato. I'm really tired with you calling me scum and never backing it up, come up with some reasons or shut up.
It would have been too risky for scum to do the opposite of that (use wifom to defend artanis), and too unproductive to not say anything. What scum wants first of all is to look good. That's what I'm holding against OO especially, and this quote by MZ can fit into the profile and isn't the argument for thinking he's scum, but isn't an argument for assuming he's town either.
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Lynch me D3 if you want, just not today unless you want to do something stupid.
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Geript doesn't know how to read my meta btw, few of you do, if any.
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On April 11 2013 13:46 strongandbig wrote:
dont vote for meapak hes not scum
On April 11 2013 13:50 Shelvocke wrote:
Why not?
S & B still didn't answer this.
On April 11 2013 15:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Oh, RO and Oats are very likely town, oats especially. Anyone who calls for their deaths at this point is just spamming the thread.
Purpose of this post?Are we discussing Oats and RO or what?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
On to other stuff.
Congratulations, you have bribed your way to becoming President of America! You have unlimited nukes at your disposal, however, they can only be used during the day phase and you can only use one nuke per day. Also, because congress is a bunch of fat cat geezers, if the politician buys your vote and you have not already used your nuke for that cycle, he can also nuke a target of his choice and he makes it look like you did it! (however he cannot make you shoot yourself) To nuke, you must type ##Nuke: Player. You must nuke 12 hours or more before day ends. Nukes land at the end of the day. Feel free to launch your first nuke without any warning.
MZ, were you responsible for scum's extra D1 death?If not, where was your D1 nuke?
You are the master of the Kremlin and have the power of the mighty Soviets at your hands! Thanks to your great serf labor, you have 2 nukes and 1 anti-nuke at your disposal. You can only use 1 per day, so you cannot nuke and anti nuke in same day. Furthermore, you cannot use both of your nukes on consecutive days.
Are you actually America or Russia?
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Whatever I'll join your dumb massclaim plan. I'm a parity cop with austin as first target, going to pick the next one this night.
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S & B after gonzaw's case:
gonzaws artanis case:
- accurately attacks his bad case on geript
- accurately attacks artanis for "out of place complaints about the town/thread", something that seems like a decent scumhunting heuristic but i hadn't really thought about before
- "other people are ignoring him" is a bad point, there hasn't been much reason to focus on him until now
- "fake aggression" really is more of a meta point, i would need to see examples of previous cases
i really don't like oatsmaster's post (18223749), it's pretty terribad. if artanis is scum i could see oats being scum too. or even if artanis isn't scum.
i like how gonzaw is actually trying to get people to pay attention to his big post#3000 case
Then other stuff in the same post:
+ Show Spoiler +
in here is my answer to the case on me
obviousone in his post 18223896 makes the correct distinction, what i meant when i said "picking phase strategy" was the actual role picking, all the number picking strategy was stupid. basically, the only reason the attacks on me make sense is because i said that thing about the picking phase strategy being important, and then wasn't around to actually talk about or make plans during the actual picking phase. Well, the reason i wasn't around is that i wasn't around. i have at least three other time-occuping activities (girlfriend-having, apartment-hunting, and homework-doing) that are more important to me than mafia and i was doing those things friday and saturday.
now, that angle of attack is legitimate. it's incorrect because just being afk for a few days doesn't make me mafia. but it's legitimate.
the people who are attacking me for being off my meta are just ridiculous and/or lazy. if you actually want to look into my town meta, you need to look further back than just one game. criticizing bad posts is something i quite enjoy, and if you think me doing it makes me scum then i lol. lurking on occasion is also something i do, and if you think that makes me scum then i also lol.
post 18223971 geript votes for ryan for what appears to be no reason at all, weird because i remember seeing some townie stuff from geript earlier in the game. but this post is, what, an association case between ryan and meapak, without actually saying why he things meapak is scum? and also the fact that ryan doesn't comment on gonzaws artanis case? hmmmmmm, what is geript's comment on that case?
oatsmaster wants to lynch vivax why?
artanis's response to the gonzaw case - unconvincing but not obviously wrong, not sure here.
vivax: "anyone else finding s & b scummy" lol
oh my draft numbers were [4][2]
visceraeyes 18227911 what a terrible post
deconduo had just made a case on me and was following it up with a vote
completely different than what vivax did
visceraeyes Y U NO PAY ATTENTION
gonzaw says vig shot me VIGS DONT SHOOT ME I WILL DO GOOD THINGS FOR TOWN!!!!!!!!
I say it looks bad, too, S & B uses gonzaw's case to draw conclusions about gonzaw, not about artanis it seems.
Any opinions? What do you say, S & B? Why summarize gonzaw's case content to talk prevalently about other stuff afterwards? The post seems like a half-defense of Artanis but later you post this:
at the moment, i am willing to lynch shelvok because his filter reads to me like he's being very "on track" but his justifications for those things are super insufficient.
i am also willing to lynch artanis because gonzaws case seems good and artanis's response doesn't convince me he's town
out of other people who have votes at the moment, i won't support killing palmar or keirathi or ryan.
i would think about killing VE because of how bad his vote on deconduo is but it would take some persuading for me to do that.
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S & B can you specify why you thought it was a good idea to sum up the points about gonzaw's case if you didn't have intention to pick a side? I don't spontaneously talk about my null reads mentioning pros and cons, unless obviously there is something I know about them being guilty and don't want to look like I'd dodging the issue...
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Question: S & B claimed that MZ is town america, but where's the D1 nuke then?
I can currently just support a shot on OO, he's scum.
Rereading Sharrant and BM now since MZ and S & B seem to be off the hook.
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No, give me this night to get a check, I don't care if you lynch me tomorrow but at least let my flip be useful with the information I'll get after next night.
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Keirathi spit out a case on me or fuck off, thanks. Don't need you joining the most silent bandwagon in the thread where people say "Vivax scum just because", that's sketchy as shit.
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On April 12 2013 02:12 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote:
Question: S & B claimed that MZ is town america, but where's the D1 nuke then?
I can currently just support a shot on OO, he's scum.
Rereading Sharrant and BM now since MZ and S & B seem to be off the hook. Does america have to shoot every day? I didnt read it like that.
America's first nuke is stealth. It doesn't need to be claimed, and if MZ didn't shoot D1, then he didn't have to claim D2.
On April 12 2013 02:14 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 02:02 Vivax wrote:
Keirathi spit out a case on me or fuck off, thanks. Don't need you joining the most silent bandwagon in the thread where people say "Vivax scum just because", that's sketchy as shit. It's partly process of elimination, partly the convenient roleclaim, partly your interactions VE, and partly how hard you tried to wheedle sn0's role out of him. I just don't see much in your filter that I directly contribute to town. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but like I said, you're one of the last 3 people I don't have solid reasons for thinking that they are town.
My roleclaim was DEMANDED, not convenient, and the mass claim is a shit idea. But I want a check before I get lynched at least.
I did everything wrong regarding VE and Artanis, ironically that's what likely makes me town, I'm not suicidal as scum.
Sno is an uncontested 1 1 picker who deserves suspicion in my opinion. But while he keeps posting, unlike D1, I'll keep my attention on OO.
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Mocsta is not scum he doesn't do abrasive shit as scum, go read Personality 2, he was nice and reasonable, and he didn't try to jump into your face with what he had to say.
Lynch ObviousOne.
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There's also the chance scum has a goldman sachs and austin is scum so don't take anything for granted for the moment, this setup allows crazy ideas.
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I don't care about mocsta either way. OO best lynch, he scum tryin to look good with his cases but no interest whatsoever in pursuing what he claims to believe.
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It wasn't anything concrete, I was throwing in the thought that everything is possible around that nuke and it's not guaranteed that austin will be dead after this day.
A way of saying that there can be a lot of chaos caused by scum during this day.
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I also can' t get over the thought that Sno might be scum, no matter what the check is. He's too casual about his play, looks active but doesn't really deliver information or useful opinions. Looks to me like a guy who tries to be involved without ever trying to get his hands dirty.
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On April 12 2013 03:19 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:17 Vivax wrote:
It wasn't anything concrete, I was throwing in the thought that everything is possible around that nuke and it's not guaranteed that austin will be dead after this day.
A way of saying that there can be a lot of chaos caused by scum during this day. More accurately, you are causing confusion in the thread for no reason. M_Z didn't nuke day 1, his first nuke isn't silent, etc. You and geript are consistently throwing as much confusion as you can into this thread. PLEASE STOP.
##Nuke: Player. You must nuke 12 hours or more before day ends. Nukes land at the end of the day. Feel free to launch your first nuke without any warning.
Interesting you think I'm scum without reading my posts or you would know this.
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Or maybe I phrased that poorly, I'm just saying that the nuke doesn't need to be announced, that's what I mean by stealth.
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Good, I'll sheep Keirathi's lynch choices then. Didn't look through Sharrant though so it's a matter of faith there, might do that later if I feel arsed to.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 12 2013 03:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
Vivax.
All that means is that NOBODY knows you are gonna nuke. Which is the case.
Launching nuke doesnt mean LANDING the nuke dude .
I know, I said what I mean in sufficient detail in one of my earlier posts. I found it odd that MZ claimed his first nuke.
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On April 12 2013 05:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
where the hell did this idea that I have a "silent nuke" come from? Have any of you ever played with an america/russia role before? You have to type ##Nuke: Player into the thread. That's like literally the most basic shit I can think of, people who keep bringing it up are trying to obfuscate the conversation.
On April 12 2013 05:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
also vivax has the weakest claim of all time.
And not a single read or useful contribution was given that day.
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Unvoted Sharrant cause OO is a better lynch if I'm the first or second.
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Don't forget to look well into Oats,BM, MZ, Mocsta, Sharrant these are likely candidates for last scum assuming all DT checks are correct.
Do your work and gl town.
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Well I don't want him to get lynched before OO that's for sure. If someone plans to switches to me and Sharrant he might hinder OO's lynch.
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On April 12 2013 09:01 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 08:54 Keirathi wrote:
Also: Today is a double lynch. Who else do you want to lynch? Why?
How do you feel about Vivax? I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. It seems to me there is only one mafia left, and StrongAndBig is the person I think far and away most likely to be mafia. I'm more comfortable with a single lynch since Austin is essentially already an extra lynch. I'll give Vivax a read through right now. From what I can remember he's acted far more sane this game than when I played with him, but someone mentioned this play is similar to his play on a smurf. He also at least seems on the same page about StrongAndBig which is a point for him in my books, but if StrongAndBig isn't the last mafia then that really means nothing. The last point alone makes him townie enough for me to want to lynch him until it's proven that StrongAndBig isn't the last mafia. My initial impression is still that any lynch I see today would benefit threefold by having another day which should resolve the BM situation that has its tendrils in just about every case I can think of.
I must say that I found this part to look pretty townie though, but it's not possible to not double lynch today. I found Sharrant to look scummy during Normal Mini II (I think it was that) but he was town.
I think the problem about his play is that he looks so thought out and careful but I read this quite early post
+ Show Spoiler +On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever. Kill me then. I can't hunt scum while not a single person in the entire game is taking me seriously.
##Vote: RestrainingOrder Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you.
and it doesn't look to me like a scum interaction. But I can't offer my lynch to stop his lynch cause I would essentially be throwing away next night's check. If I could pick only to lynch OO today I would pick that I think.
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Feeling guilty mocsta?
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Lol why would you shoot OO at this point that'd be dumb.
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Yeah shoot me for the wtf-award nomination. The uncounterclaimed parity cop only one guy in the game made a case against.
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If you shoot OO it's the same as shooting me anyway.But if you're town and want to do dumb shit don't let me stop you, it will stick on you postgame.
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Did austin just claim scum?
Applause for Sharrant going down like a boss.
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Yes I'm scum who started to hardbus OO during N1, now that you didn't lynch me to expect a check it's time to shoot me
clap
clap
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Oh, you. Conveniently leaving out my arguments.
On April 12 2013 21:56 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 21:51 Vivax wrote:
Yes I'm scum who started to hardbus OO during N1, now that you didn't lynch me to expect a check it's time to shoot me
clap
clap
clap Hard bus OO means this? + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2013 10:08 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:53 Mocsta wrote:On April 11 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2013 09:39 Mocsta wrote:
o vivax thats a twist of events
austin wasnt the strongest scum.cndidate going forward.today
to release the check is protown as its meant to remove an option from discussion so we can focus better What if I fakeclaim, oh look I tried to pick cop it wasn't available sowwy I'm just a VT. Nothing going to change if I claim. Scum can lie, and it doesn't make anyone town. I'd rather show I'm town through my actions, not help scum choose their NK targets. Thats not a response to what i said. I commented that u think austin and kei and sno doing a power play. U talkjng about the claim. Im not asking u to claim. Im just saying u r the hold up. I don't leave any stone unturned. I don't have enough base to claim they're doing powerplay, but I have a base to say hat MZ and OO look really really really scummy. On April 11 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta let's lynch ObviousOne.
That'd be real gangsta. On April 10 2013 07:32 Vivax wrote:I do agree on ObviousOne though, I noticed that he only spent time bullshitting around after posting his Artanis case. Looks to me like he only posted it to look good. Here, filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=73#1456He was also the 7th or 8th to vote for him, and the fact he felt the need to post such an extensive case only makes him look worse when he could have simply sheeped or pushed others to vote for him. If you shoot OO you're the next hero. On April 10 2013 11:34 Vivax wrote:
I wanna lynch Sno_Man or OO. I'm starting to find Mocsta interesting.
I don't think austin is a good target for nuke, he's talkative enough and doesn't troll. On April 12 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote:
Question: S & B claimed that MZ is town america, but where's the D1 nuke then?
I can currently just support a shot on OO, he's scum.
Rereading Sharrant and BM now since MZ and S & B seem to be off the hook. On April 12 2013 03:05 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta is not scum he doesn't do abrasive shit as scum, go read Personality 2, he was nice and reasonable, and he didn't try to jump into your face with what he had to say.
Lynch ObviousOne. On April 12 2013 03:12 Vivax wrote:
I don't care about mocsta either way. OO best lynch, he scum tryin to look good with his cases but no interest whatsoever in pursuing what he claims to believe. On April 12 2013 09:23 Vivax wrote:
Well I don't want him to get lynched before OO that's for sure. If someone plans to switches to me and Sharrant he might hinder OO's lynch. Shouting OO is scum isnt a bus, I doubt ANYONE was swayed by your arguments, so cheap town cred to a lynch that already was happening.
On April 11 2013 02:06 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 02:00 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 11 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta let's lynch ObviousOne.
That'd be real gangsta. What would be gangsta about it? Why do you wish to be gangsta? How will it help town win this mafia game? He expressed interest into VE when he got under pressure, promised to look into him, never did.But was fine with throwing around his other two reads. + Show Spoiler +
VE: I've been aware he's in two games since I am/was on the replacement list for his other game (Noir Mini I) so I expect this game to suffer more due to the nature of Noir being instant majority. I'll review him as we approach the midpoint of day so there's hopefully something more there.
Keirathi: I'm more green than null on Kei, but that's more bias based on how I perceive him as a person than a player so now that he's finished jerking off for 12 hours straight [lol take a nap, dude] should be able to identify if my bias is clouding my perception of him.
RO: He's another one I will want to review before the midpoint of day. I believe I mentioned earlier his D0 was more helpful/proactive than he was all game in LX [my opinion, didn't review LX] so he's at least Null.
He started summarizing inconclusive meta points about Artanis when he got under pressure + Show Spoiler +@Gonzaw:
Artanis[XP] mafia meta highlights based on his one recorded scum game in the database: Haunted Mafia
- Replaced into game at P64
- GG out P116
- Total of perhaps 8 "useful" posts over 50 pages
Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:
- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games
- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool
- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself
- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction
I'm looking for something more recent, but Artanis tends to host games rather than play... search filter only went back to March 2012 and the database shows no scum games other than Haunted. to show up the day after as 8th to vote for him with an extensive meta case, but barely considering what had been happening in the thread, and never pushing for any lynch despite posting such a huge case (which was at a weird time cause Artanis was already dead, basically, and imo he only posted it to look good after flip.
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On April 12 2013 21:56 Mocsta wrote:
Nice delurk Vivax
What has hard bussing got to do with being town or scum?
I dont recall you having any presence this game to get a wagon started; so your point is moot.
So Vivax. Caller scum or town?
Caller town. I already said that if janitor is used I'd assume every death was a townie to simplify things. They can basically only use it to discredit vigis or let jubjubs argue that 1 scum is already dead.
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I'd be a pretty bad DT to tell you my reads before the night ends.
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How sure are we that he would have died anyway even if scum shot Caller first?
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On April 12 2013 22:40 Mocsta wrote:
who said BM is scum?
Im struggling to understand how that was an honest attempt to address the question at large.
Mocsta, what do you want to know exactly? You look a lot like you're just trying to throw shit, not find out what I'm thinking.
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So yamato guarantees that BM picked JV, that's good. If that means there's only one scum left the game is basically over.
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On April 13 2013 00:11 Bill Murray wrote:
yeah ill kill vivax
You mean yourself. Shoot Mocsta instead.
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Aw shit that won't work well for injustice vig. Well go ahead then.
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Lol wtf does geript smoke where he comes from???
The ideas are simply ridiculous.
Vivax check Mocsta
BM shoot Vivax
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Geript also has an unexplainable hard-on for mocsta.
BM should shoot himself.
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On April 13 2013 02:30 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways, I have to take off for a few hours. Don't self destruct while I'm gone please.
Don't worry I'll only destroy others
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Make something that forces a guy to communicate in ms paint pictures all day long.
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Scum always defend their scumbuddies yeah.
Just like OO.
Oh wait.
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MZ nukes austin, the most talkative of the suspects, ~36 hours before he had to (which I see as scummy)
I defended artanis and sheeped ve's case.
It's not always the simplest solution.
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On April 13 2013 03:26 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 03:26 Restraining Order wrote:On April 13 2013 03:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
Who joined the PM network? Oats you here?
I'm assuming with Kurumi around you know now? We have a new friend, I can attest. Oh, and it's Keirathi.
Should have invited Bill Murray.
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Mocsta is town.
Not sure about the last scum now.
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Hint: Look for people who suspected him before night ended, and who seemingly lost interest after knowing he might be checked.
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Sup idiots.
Didn't read my check result?
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What about oats, no one has been seriously consideri g him since he was sitting in a mason qt
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On April 07 2013 16:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Gonzaw.
I disagree that Artanis is scum.
Pure gut read so meh.
If you got the time, look at British 2.
Is he similar to there? Or different.
Why not Vivax?
Also Im up for a sn0man lynch for being UTTERLY USELESS.
On April 07 2013 16:09 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:08 gonzaw wrote:On April 07 2013 16:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Gonzaw.
I disagree that Artanis is scum.
Pure gut read so meh.
If you got the time, look at British 2.
Is he similar to there? Or different.
Why not Vivax?
Also Im up for a sn0man lynch for being UTTERLY USELESS.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346&user=19729lol Artanis is playing NOTHING LIKE his town play in British 2 Do you have anything specific about it that makes me wrong? It seems it only makes me more sure he's scum >_> nopey
On April 07 2013 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Gonzaw you understand what I mean by GUT READ? (it means I felt that he was town reading the thread.) I agree that artanis looks scummy. I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play. Also he is scummy!?!?! (so wishywashy right? )
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I dun care, checking your french girl tonight if town grows some neurons.
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We also know there are two scum left herp
Caller was town derp
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derp indeed, we lynched the fourth. Time for bed
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You're really bad yamato.
Trading a DT for another DT, if you pulled through your plan you'd be in the shoes of the guys you call idiots at this point.
Keep up the good work though. The DTs won't lynch themselves. Is it Keirathi or me next?
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Think of it from this point of view: The last scum doesn't concede cause he thinks he's not getting lynched anytime soon and wants to have some fun watching town burn a little.
I'm currently reviewing yamato:
On April 07 2013 02:15 yamato77 wrote:
Palmar's comment on VE, even if VE is scum, is also no reason to think him town. It's a passing comment made that follows thread sentiment. In no way is Palmar taking that read of VE seriously.
This looks like something premature to say when you don't have knowledge of VE's alignment. It looks like yamato tried to take credit away from Palmar even before VE got lynched.
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Other incriminating stuff:
Yamato initially wanted to lynch these guys:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote:
Going to bed.
When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people:
VE
PALMAR
SINANI
MEAPAK
AUSTIN
One of them will get lynched.
OO deciding to bus artanis at this time:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:23 ObviousOne wrote:British Empire Mini Mafia II [Town]:Comfortable with 180 when confronted with new information Openly questions his detractors Sarcasm/teeth to his posts Early game attention grabber with BS vote on Marv (wasn't even in the game) - not afraid of the spotlight Direct/engaged mid-lategame One of his post-game posts I believe he mentioned before in this game, that he was trying to change up his playstyle a bit: + Show Spoiler +On March 09 2013 09:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Well, just reading the thread and getting reads off that is easy, actually doing analysis on players and posting it and trying to convince others, using meta, etc. is something else and it's not something you bothered with. When I did do so and people barely/didn't respond to it and still happily voted for me, it doesn't particularly make the game very fun. First major thing that stands out to me is how he formulated this post. He talked about 4 other players then said ObviousOne looked bad (I really did, bee tee dubs): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17802815He guilted me out of my scum read on Toad (Zessionar in that game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17811235Full of questions / interactions / poking Was a town power role and got very bold D2 but town confidence overall was high. Otherwise rather similar to British TL Mafia LI [Mafia]:Talks about things mafia would/wouldn't do (his example was scum don't make big slips) Points out a big scum slip (lol see above) Posts in a reassuring tone (regarding his own reads) Attacked inactivity and claims Post-game confessions: Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 14:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm surprised so many people thought I was scum, given that I would've done the same lurking as town given the size of the game. I would've posted more if I could but I simply got lost in all the traffic; def won't be playing another 30 player game. The only post that really tipped me off was the one ghost accurately called out, I don't think I would've made that as town but mafia IRC said it was a good idea. Given my early bus on VE after his claim I'd think after VE flipped I'd get a bit more credit too. Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia factionTHIS GAME:Dismissive in D0, not chasing shadows or anything really Some concept of a plan presented, not really pushed Not very inquisitive Giant poop in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18226316No real back-and-forth happening Barely here The OBVIOUS conclusion: ScumSpend way more time defending / deflecting than scum hunting, less interactive than his town games. By extension of this, he's missing that edge of sarcasm and incredulity in his voice that is present when he calls people out on their bullshit as town. He doesn't seem interested in getting people to re-factor their reads. Way too defensive to match his town meta in any way. Added note: his filter is barely 2 pages and we've already been active for four real-time days if I am not fucking up my maths. Both scum game filters were short (less than 3 pages each) and showed him hiding by posting just enough to not be considered a lurker.
Suddenly Artanis is among yamato's scumreads:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote:
Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum.
As for who to vig, it should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town.
As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore.
Shortly after OO bussed, yamato adds Artanis to those he would lynch, without fighting for his own choices.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 15 2013 13:00 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 12:57 Vivax wrote:Think of it from this point of view: The last scum doesn't concede cause he thinks he's not getting lynched anytime soon and wants to have some fun watching town burn a little. I'm currently reviewing yamato: On April 07 2013 02:15 yamato77 wrote:
Palmar's comment on VE, even if VE is scum, is also no reason to think him town. It's a passing comment made that follows thread sentiment. In no way is Palmar taking that read of VE seriously. This looks like something premature to say when you don't have knowledge of VE's alignment. It looks like yamato tried to take credit away from Palmar even before VE got lynched. Yamato CANNOT be normal scum. It's impossible. S&B had a green+VT check on him. VT's can't get extra bonuses. Yamato could be a traitor, but to have known that VE was scum at that point, he would have had to have already been recruited. Which I don't find very likely, looking at his filter.
That would fit the profile of a guy who doesn't expect to get lynched soon: Someone with a green check.
Yamato was the last one to pick. Why not pick godfather? Conservative choice, and guaranteed to not have been taken away by a townie.
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I'm like 90 % sure you didn't read through yamato before posting that garbage.
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^ that was to mocsta
You have the ability to cover a player, changing their role and alignment to anything you want. You can choose to appear as a role of your choice (including vanilla townie) to any and all types of detective-esque actions.
I read it like this:
GF can manipulate other's alignments and additionally has his usual ability, but as passive
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Does it look like yamato meant what he wrote?
On April 08 2013 17:18 yamato77 wrote:
Any of Artanis/VE/Sinani will do as a lynch today, but gonzaw being shot does lend a certain weight to the Artanis lynch that I like.
On April 08 2013 17:50 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, let's talk about something else.
What's your read on Sinani?
On April 08 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:
So aside from Sinani, who else would you lynch today?
Has anything changed from earlier, with Shelvocke and VE being on your radar?
On April 08 2013 18:11 yamato77 wrote:
Well, aside from Rayn, it's rather unsettling how much you seem to agree with me.
I may want to take this lynch in a different direction, and Sinani seems like a good one.
BRB, case.
On April 08 2013 18:13 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:46 sinani206 wrote:
gonzaw are you going to claim exactly what your role is? This post alone is enough for me, actually. ##Vote Sinani
On April 09 2013 04:47 yamato77 wrote:
Look at how Shelvocke came in and unvoted Artanis
Does that seem natural to you as a town player?
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This post came right before that pile up there
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 17:37 yamato77 wrote:
The timing is a moot point, because with an AFK host in BC, the shot could have been sent at any point.
I'll give you that it seems like an assassin kill, more than anything else, but you can't know for sure.
You think it gives leverage to pushing your lynch, but that completely depends on general thread sentiment. What do you think was more likely, considering he was the most active person in pushing your lynch and was also fairly rigid in his belief? Do you think the wagon falling apart and town losing direction was more likely, or do you think me coming in and reaffirming the strength of the lynch is more likely? I have openly admitted that I was content not taking the lead, so why would mafia think that at all?
To some extent, this is WIFOM on the kill, yes, but I'm fairly certain that keeping the lynch headed your way is a good thing. Mafia wanted to lead town astray by killing Gonzaw, but I'm not going to let it happen.
Yamato totally means what he writes.
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On April 15 2013 13:25 yamato77 wrote:
Vivax, Moc went over this
No, I'm not mafia.
It does look bad, sure, but in all honesty, why would I, as mafia, bus Artanis, and then NOT go to VE or Shelvocke like the rest of them?
Why am I pushing sinani? Do you disagree that he looked like mafia at that point?
Why would Artanis disagree with lynching his scumbuddy's lynch option?
Questions to answer.
I didn't notice all mafia went to VE or Shelvocke afterwards, did you mention this point previously in the game? Can you show me where?
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It shows that you had a special perspective to watch things happen, it doesn't look like something a townie would notice easily, so late since D1.
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On April 15 2013 13:34 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 13:33 Vivax wrote:
It shows that you had a special perspective to watch things happen, it doesn't look like something a townie would notice easily, so late since D1. Are you just doing this because you think I'm going to call you town for going all tunnel-mode on me?
If you really are town then try to convince me. There's a lot looking bad in our filter. Ideally convince me by finding someone who looks worse than you. Oats might be a good start, you mentioned him just before.
Not asking you to do this for me, asking you to do this for the game.
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Why did you say all mafia went to Shelvocke/VE if that wasn't the case though?
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Yeah that does look bad, he picked the wifom side of things in favor of Artanis.
Has Shelvocke been DT-checked yet? If Oats is town then he's the only scum I could see having picked 8 1
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You can be sure that scum's going to shoot you now -.-
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I went through flipped scum filters, they make me think Shelvocke might not be scum actually.
Artanis wanted him dead, called him scum.
VE sounded like he was setting himself up to lynch him/found him suspicious.
OO defended MZ against Shelvocke.
BM did kinda avoid talking directly about him. Called him a hero once though.
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Well OO's wasn't a good bus and that's what caught attention, BM bussed with a vote and nothing else, VE didn't really bus IIRC, Artanis spread out his reads a lot.
But that's not the point, I would find the interactions odd if they were between scumbuddies, I also looked at Oats with these in mind and I don't think he's scum anymore.
Sinani was defended by all of scum except for Artanis who changed opinion on him when it looked like he was getting lynched.
I'd currently lynch between Sinani or yamato, Keirathi has to be lynched at lylo.
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On April 15 2013 14:38 geript wrote:
People are reading the wrong filters. I think people should read Caller's filter. Especially the section where he starts attacking Keirathi. It was literally once there was a head of steam going his way that Artanis popped in with his case on me at that point. As a matter of fact, both Bill Murray and Obvious One pop in to make points. Next VE comes in with his case on RO as well. It completely shifted the conversation away from keirathi. It absolutely disrupted the conversation and got people shifted off of it.
I'm going to request that everyone reads pages ~38-50 as it's a huge surge in Scum activity.
I don't think scum sat there, organized and with a plan on what to do, to come out organized exactly when Keirathi got attacked. Have yet to see a scum pr0 team like that lol.
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Well Keirathi is forcing himself to confirm townies with his claim. He can't escape getting caught unless he starts throwing in concerns about a GF, which he could do now given some facets of yamato's play.
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Keirathi, since you said you're NKVD, you can choose as what to appear, what did/will you pick tonight?
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you can choose what to appear like, sorry for gerglish
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Anyway, we know Keirathi can change his role but not his alignment (like I thought he could), so we'll simply do this: I check Keirathi and Keirathi checks me.
If yamato is GF he picked Vanilla anyway, but he can frame people according to role so we have to watch out tonight. If I come back red I have been framed and he's scum, you can lynch me and will find out, yamato might try to put it onto RO who is very unlikely scum imo.
Sinani apparently picked Rigger and has a green check so he's the least worrisome check.
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Didn't read everything yet. I did check Keirathi, no result back from tonight.
All I gotta say is that Mocsta is an idiot if he didn't rolecheck me, and should be held responsible for my mislynch if it goes through.
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On April 16 2013 17:56 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:19 Bill Murray wrote:
1. CALLER PLZ
ME
deconduo
Palmar
raynpelikoneet
visceraeyes
vivax
gonzaw
austinmcc
sinani206
strongandbig
meapak_ziphh
artanis[xp]
sharrant
sn0_man
keirathi
Obviousone
geript
restraining order
shelvocke
yamato77
mocsta
23. Oatmaster Guys this is real. Disregard last post geript. The post before this. Bm, says he has 4 town reads, which in hindsight was a scum reference. There is indeed a method to the madness. Anyways ppl say these lists are wifom, it having done them as scum before. I k ow they are not. Note the symmetry in distancing between the 4 flipped scum. This leaves sinani or yamato as the last scum.U can laugh at me all u want, but this cycle I'm voting sinani and yam. I'm expecting yam to flip red based on this list. Sinani is for security. I believe yam only has a green check, not a role check. He can easily be godfather. I will read his filter later tonight to get supporting quotes. Vivax, I will re read your yam case points. I probably discarded prematurely because I was too suspicious
Cool story bro, I said that last night already without noticing BM's simmetry, now unvote me and let's lynch scum.
##Vote Sinani206
##Vote yamato77
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Nice pick up there though, BM failed at producing randomness.
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I could see Shelvocke being mafia traitor, that'd explain the green check. Unlikely he has been recruited.
I could get behind lynching him over Sinani, and I'm somewhat confident yamato is GF.
Oats is town. Mocsta, who did you rolecheck tonight? Cause if it wasn't me, who's at risk of getting lynched and whose claim is doubted, your role usage would be pretty bad (as are your votes).
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Told you I sent Keirathi in, but since he died I didn't get anything back.
What's the deal with you being unable to my check results lol
What's Shelvocke's role? Vanilla I'd bet.
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Your role usage is bad cause I WOULDN'T BE ABOUT TO GET LYNCHED IF YOU CHECKED ME. INSTEAD YOU CHECKED A GUY WHOSE ROLE HAS NO INFLUENCE ON HIS LYNCH.
Fucks sake
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On April 16 2013 20:45 Restraining Order wrote:
hmm
Lynching Vivax is a given.
I'm not yet as sure as I'd like to be on who to use the second lynch on, honestly.
I'll look into it soon-ish
I'm curious what stops you from lynching Shelvocke rather than a guy who is most likely cop.
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A cop who pushed an OO lynch before the day even started. You guys must do really nasty stuff.
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On April 08 2013 17:37 yamato77 wrote:
The timing is a moot point, because with an AFK host in BC, the shot could have been sent at any point.
I'll give you that it seems like an assassin kill, more than anything else, but you can't know for sure.
You think it gives leverage to pushing your lynch, but that completely depends on general thread sentiment. What do you think was more likely, considering he was the most active person in pushing your lynch and was also fairly rigid in his belief? Do you think the wagon falling apart and town losing direction was more likely, or do you think me coming in and reaffirming the strength of the lynch is more likely? I have openly admitted that I was content not taking the lead, so why would mafia think that at all?
To some extent, this is WIFOM on the kill, yes, but I'm fairly certain that keeping the lynch headed your way is a good thing. Mafia wanted to lead town astray by killing Gonzaw, but I'm not going to let it happen.
On April 08 2013 17:18 yamato77 wrote:
Any of Artanis/VE/Sinani will do as a lynch today, but gonzaw being shot does lend a certain weight to the Artanis lynch that I like.
On April 08 2013 17:50 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, let's talk about something else.
What's your read on Sinani?
On April 08 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:
So aside from Sinani, who else would you lynch today?
Has anything changed from earlier, with Shelvocke and VE being on your radar?
On April 08 2013 18:11 yamato77 wrote:
Well, aside from Rayn, it's rather unsettling how much you seem to agree with me.
I may want to take this lynch in a different direction, and Sinani seems like a good one.
BRB, case.
On April 08 2013 18:13 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:46 sinani206 wrote:
gonzaw are you going to claim exactly what your role is? This post alone is enough for me, actually. ##Vote Sinani
On April 09 2013 04:47 yamato77 wrote:
Look at how Shelvocke came in and unvoted Artanis
Does that seem natural to you as a town player?
You do the same stuff you mention against Shelvocke: After mentioning both Artanis and VE as scumread, saying that gonzaw's death gave more weight to artanis, you chose to go after sinani. You weakly bussed your teammates while going for another player, and you didn't have time to switch back to one of them, nor did it make sense for you to do that.
Is Shelvocke Vanilla?In that case, he's a traitor with a green check, sinani is confirmed for having a role AND has a green check.
##Unvote sinani206
##Vote Shelvocke
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On April 16 2013 23:31 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 22:33 Vivax wrote:On April 08 2013 17:37 yamato77 wrote:
The timing is a moot point, because with an AFK host in BC, the shot could have been sent at any point.
I'll give you that it seems like an assassin kill, more than anything else, but you can't know for sure.
You think it gives leverage to pushing your lynch, but that completely depends on general thread sentiment. What do you think was more likely, considering he was the most active person in pushing your lynch and was also fairly rigid in his belief? Do you think the wagon falling apart and town losing direction was more likely, or do you think me coming in and reaffirming the strength of the lynch is more likely? I have openly admitted that I was content not taking the lead, so why would mafia think that at all?
To some extent, this is WIFOM on the kill, yes, but I'm fairly certain that keeping the lynch headed your way is a good thing. Mafia wanted to lead town astray by killing Gonzaw, but I'm not going to let it happen. On April 08 2013 17:18 yamato77 wrote:
Any of Artanis/VE/Sinani will do as a lynch today, but gonzaw being shot does lend a certain weight to the Artanis lynch that I like. On April 08 2013 17:50 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, let's talk about something else.
What's your read on Sinani? On April 08 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:
So aside from Sinani, who else would you lynch today?
Has anything changed from earlier, with Shelvocke and VE being on your radar? On April 08 2013 18:11 yamato77 wrote:
Well, aside from Rayn, it's rather unsettling how much you seem to agree with me.
I may want to take this lynch in a different direction, and Sinani seems like a good one.
BRB, case. On April 08 2013 18:13 yamato77 wrote:On April 08 2013 06:46 sinani206 wrote:
gonzaw are you going to claim exactly what your role is? This post alone is enough for me, actually. ##Vote Sinani On April 09 2013 04:47 yamato77 wrote:
Look at how Shelvocke came in and unvoted Artanis
Does that seem natural to you as a town player? You do the same stuff you mention against Shelvocke: After mentioning both Artanis and VE as scumread, saying that gonzaw's death gave more weight to artanis, you chose to go after sinani. You weakly bussed your teammates while going for another player, and you didn't have time to switch back to one of them, nor did it make sense for you to do that. Is Shelvocke Vanilla?In that case, he's a traitor with a green check, sinani is confirmed for having a role AND has a green check. ##Unvote sinani206
##Vote Shelvocke I get this process look terrible for yamato.. i hated it at the time, and still hate it. But.. why are you treating shelvocke as traitor? EVEN *if* he was traitor.. how do you jump to the conclusion taht scum already figured out he was traitor, and pm the host?
We don't know if they figured it out, he still wins with scum even if they didn't, they just can't communicate.
Traitor is actually a smart pick, 6 scum is pretty strong, and them not giving up is other evidence that they think they have a good position.
He's vanilla, and has not been playing pro-town, he has been green-checked and not been doing much at all since then.
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On April 16 2013 23:45 Mocsta wrote:
a town yam, would have shat all over my idea about BM and his WIFOM list post.
its ok.. scum yam gives up.
Agree with this conclusion. Pretty much similar to NSB from hydra 2 after losing his buddies.
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You bussed too, OO-style. Weakly and without followup.
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On April 16 2013 23:48 yamato77 wrote:
Note that you guys are trying to lynch me for moving the lynch off of mafia onto someone you don't know the alignment of certainly, and assuming that it was mafia motivated simply because it happened.
Just because I felt stronger about my own read on Sinani at the time does not mean I'm mafia who just "weakly bussed" his teammates.
Also, if you look at voting, MAFIA ALL BUSSED THAT DAY
By your own logic I would be town cause I didn't "bus" artanis?
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No one cares about your constant defenses, try to prove why your own reads are scum or worth lynching.
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Oats, go away, you've been wrong on me for the entire game and that's pretty bad.
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On April 17 2013 00:01 yamato77 wrote:
Think logically for a second and realize that all of the things you accuse me of, geript is even more guilty of.
Well, if he bussed he was pretty much the only one who did it correctly, he is the first of the definitive votes, he also got doubted to be VT by BM and asked for BM to be shot.
Unlikely to be scum.
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On April 17 2013 00:55 geript wrote:
So you think I'm scum again? Carr to explain?
You seem like another good candidate for traitor, being vanilla, right?
Why don't you start explaining why you've not been taking part in our yamato discussion when you've apparently been here to show up when Mocsta dropped his vote on you?
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Isn't Mocsta capitalist?
1: I checked him and I don't think he fakeclaimed that role.
2: He could use extra KP if he wanted to, in that case.
Your point regarding you not being traitor is valid. There's the unlikely chance yamato is traitor (but rather scum), so I'd prefer if we lynched him + shelvocke today and not geript (@ mocsta)
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On April 17 2013 02:02 geript wrote:
Here's the bottom line, Shelvocke and Yamato possibly could be reclusive traitors, but it's highly unlikely. It's just best to assume that there's 1 scum left and that we need to find said person. And no, we're not lynching Yamato + shelvocke today... that's just nonsensical. Vivax is a must lynch; he's done nothing all game.
Just being among the first to push OO and taking Mocsta out of the equation. Go away baddie
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Shelvocke has 3 pages of filter and you tell me I've been doing nothing. You're a walking joke geript
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Do you have arguments for you being town?
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On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote:
LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK
On April 12 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:41 Keirathi wrote:On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote:
LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK No. YES
On April 12 2013 03:54 yamato77 wrote:OO I have my vote on. Most of Sharrant comes across as very "clean" and thought out, but I'm not going to call him scum for that, because it doesn't seem like a strong heuristic. He could very well be town, but the fact that he defended Artanis AND VE is not a good thing. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:40 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning, everyone.
I'm glad to see I was wrong about Artanis and VisceraEyes.
I'll be writing up a longer post in a minute but I wanted to ask two questions first:
If the role reverser were used on a justice vigi when they shot a mafia member, what would be the end result? Would both/either player live through the shot?
If the role reverser used his power on the janitor when the janitor did not use his power, would it activate or would the role reverser fizzle out because no action was taken by the janitor? Do people actually say that kind of shit when they're wrong? It seems unnaturally complacent with this "pro-town" ideal he has going on in ihis filter. Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 00:18 Sharrant wrote:
I'm not particularly happy with any other lynch right now. I'd like to lynch StrongAndBig as things currently stand. Even his lynch has too many "what ifs" in my mind, but that's the lynch I'm most confident in, unless someone has proof that BM is not JusticeVigi.
I agree with the plan to claim from the bottom up, I'm just waiting until we get up to me. I'll do my best to check in on the thread throughout the day, because I don't want to slow the claims down. It seems to likely to me that scum don't have BC, but there's still the possibility that they do.
My votes will be on StrongAndBig, and my second vote will be on Austin. If someone has an anti-nuke to save him, I'll likely move my vote. This is the only other thing that makes me want to lynch him.
Sorry, but here's another thing that is similar to what you did with Artanis and VE. You shout someone is scum while softbussing scum.
You post like crazy that MZ is scum, then shortly affirm in your next post that your vote is on OO like it's some sort of justification for people telling you that MZ isn't a viable lynch for that day. You posted that last quote where you were voting for someone you thought might be scum more likely than the read you were pushing (MZ) as answer to this from austin:
What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence.
You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good.
Of which, out of all of them, you picked OO to put your vote on, while in a post shortly after you say this, except for geript these are the guys austin wondered about regarding you not wanting to lynch them:
On April 12 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:58 yamato77 wrote:On April 12 2013 03:51 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:On April 12 2013 03:42 austinmcc wrote:
If meapak were mafia he could have nuked D1 and didn't.
If meapak DOES have a silent nuke, it would have KILLED SOMEONE. Therefore, IF he had a silent nuke and used it, he killed either artanis or VE (the only people to die at the end of the day). They both flipped mafia. So IF there's a scary ol' silent nuke, it means he used it to kill mafia...
I don't terribly have a problem with someone thinking I was scum at the start of D2. I don't love my play up until that point, and could see nuking me if I were someone else. I don't find his play super anti-town in terms of nuke use except that he didn't check the thread a final time before posting what he'd been writing up. What's he done today? Seriously, the dude is LAZY MAFIA. I've been saying it all game, and he's done absolutely fucking nothing. Here's the thing. Maybe he's lazy mafia. If he's mafia, he voluntarily just didn't shoot D1. That seems like a poor choice. That's something that I would flag as saying, "Hey...hold up. This guy looks like he might be mafia, but he used his role in an odd manner for someone who is mafia." I would second guess my read on him. Then I would go, "Wait a minute, snb claimed a cop check on MZ." If snb is lying, he's taking a risk that there are no other whatever-cops above him on the chart. A small risk, but a risk. And maybe MZ is a gf, that's a possibility. But again, it's SOME/SLIGHT/DECENT evidence that MZ might not be mafia. Then, there are a couple other players with LESS in their favor, imo. What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence. You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good. I may appear tunneled, but in reality I'm just trying to work through some of the doubts I have about this game: Mocsta and his shot BM and his refusal to claim Oats' entire play M_Z and the mason circle Sharrant Shelvocke Sinani and the check (GF?) OO Vivax SnB EVERY FLIP FROM NIGHT 1 RO People I'm CONFIDENT that are town: Geript Sn0 Austin Keirathi You can see the discrepancy. Now if I was to take things at face value ( like you guys suggest), then the only people I want to lynch into dwindles: Shelvocke Sharrant OO If 2/3 or 3/3 of the remaining mafia are among them, then yeah, you guys are obviously on the right track here, but you don't really need me to accomplish hunting them, do you? It's already done; I know they have a chance at being mafia, so I'm trying to pursue opinions on other people to get a more clear picture of the game that isn't "tunneled".
This just looks like you were afraid to have your vote on your actual scumread and picked your scumbuddy to drop your vote on while pushing for everything else, in order to have a reason to switch if you managed to convince others.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Next chapter, post-lynch, he starts saying all sorts of inconsistent stuff:
On April 12 2013 04:23 yamato77 wrote:
Has anyone considered this possibility?
If BM is telling the truth, and is JV who shot mafia Caller, and Deconduo was actually mafia Janitor, there's only 1/5 mafia left.
Seems possible, no?
Thus, if we lynch mafia and don't win the game, and there's no anti-town third party, one of Mocsta/BM is probably mafia.
That's how I reached that conclusion.
On April 12 2013 10:46 yamato77 wrote:
Yeah, just shoot Vivax.
On April 12 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
Other potential candidate for last mafia if both Moc and BM are town is Shelvocke.
So yeah, this game is almost solved, assuming there are no more GF flips.
On April 13 2013 04:21 yamato77 wrote:
>_>
You guys are making this game more complicated than it should be.
How about we lynch Mocsta, since his shot was not on scum?
(Picking Mocsta over BM lol)
On April 13 2013 12:39 yamato77 wrote:
##Vote Vivax
Vivax isn't even interested in the game anymore, and is no longer active. He, as town, is spammy as fuck and insane the entire game.
Kill it.
Picking me over Shelvocke who he had as scum during lynch-day.
Lynch yamato 
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Just found something on why geript might be scum, just you wait.
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Why geript could be scum
massive push against keirathi at end of night before he nukes BM:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2013 03:55 geript wrote:
People should reread Keirathi's filter again with consideration of the flips so far. On April 13 2013 04:18 geript wrote:
Just read his damn filter. Tell me if his D1 filter looks towny at all. On April 13 2013 04:37 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote:
Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments:
1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him.
2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO.
3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him.
4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch.
5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow.
Anyways, be back in a few hours. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote:On April 09 2013 21:38 Palmar wrote:
And I wrote the assassin and nra = scum analysis. I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote:Anyways: raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:23 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 26 2013 08:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn goes back to the shadows when he is called out on his argument.
Why are you scummy Rayn? Is he, though? Maybe that's all just in your head. A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 27 2013 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy crap Corazon is failing hard to even read my filter. I read your filter and all you've done is attack 6 people, all of which have been under pressure from others. I read your filter bro. Get some better defense. The fact is that rayn has brought new things to the table too; his analysis/vote of OO's second post, or Oats' apparent contradiction with the prplhz/Dandel cases - and indeed something came of this. Being active, suspicious of many people, and aggressively questioning are not what I think of as mafia characteristics. Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said. You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: On April 06 2013 10:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 06 2013 10:23 geript wrote:
Also, would someone familiar with Caller's meta tell me about him? Caller is actually town. Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote:
@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree. I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia.If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet Weak case on confirmed towny Rayn. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:57 Keirathi wrote:
@gonzaw:
I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else.
And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate.
Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. Hard defense of Artanis. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote:Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote:On April 07 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever. Kill me then. I can't hunt scum while not a single person in the entire game is taking me seriously.
##Vote: RestrainingOrder Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you. In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. Deflecting away from Artanis. On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote:
WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:
meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote:
I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Undertaker 21-0
GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote:
Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote:
@Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote:
I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin.
It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Look at this. He thinks Sharrant is chainsawing onto OO but qualifies with: Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:42 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP:
1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO.
I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. But seems to be thinking OO is likely scum or knowing he is: Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 10:59 Keirathi wrote:On April 11 2013 10:53 geript wrote:
Sharrant not likely scum. Shelvocke not likely scum. OO not likely scum. MZ is a big ?? Best lynch of those 4. Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. Read his filter and tell me he gives an actual reason for suspecting OO on D2. On April 13 2013 05:37 geript wrote:
If myself and BM die tonight, please nuke Kei. Kthnxbai
Day starts - relevant quotes:
On April 13 2013 12:09 geript wrote:
So mocsta, what did you think of my points?
On April 13 2013 12:30 Keirathi wrote:
I checked BM.
He is scum.
##Vote: Bill Murray
On April 13 2013 12:31 geript wrote:
Well that makes this easy...
Throw the Holy Hand Grenade at Bill Murray
Keirathi, geript's main scumread, announces red check, and geript immediately kills him, saying it's easy. That doesn't make any sense. Geript clearly didn't have the balls to doubt the check of his main scumread, and that's extremely scummy.
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On April 17 2013 02:55 geript wrote:
I think Shelvocke is likely town, but I prefer to lynch him than yamato honestly.
What makes you think Shelvocke is town, and why would you want to lynch him if you think he is?
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Stop burying my posts with your trash
On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote:
LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK
On April 12 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:41 Keirathi wrote:On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote:
LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK No. YES
On April 12 2013 03:54 yamato77 wrote:OO I have my vote on. Most of Sharrant comes across as very "clean" and thought out, but I'm not going to call him scum for that, because it doesn't seem like a strong heuristic. He could very well be town, but the fact that he defended Artanis AND VE is not a good thing. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:40 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning, everyone.
I'm glad to see I was wrong about Artanis and VisceraEyes.
I'll be writing up a longer post in a minute but I wanted to ask two questions first:
If the role reverser were used on a justice vigi when they shot a mafia member, what would be the end result? Would both/either player live through the shot?
If the role reverser used his power on the janitor when the janitor did not use his power, would it activate or would the role reverser fizzle out because no action was taken by the janitor? Do people actually say that kind of shit when they're wrong? It seems unnaturally complacent with this "pro-town" ideal he has going on in ihis filter. Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 00:18 Sharrant wrote:
I'm not particularly happy with any other lynch right now. I'd like to lynch StrongAndBig as things currently stand. Even his lynch has too many "what ifs" in my mind, but that's the lynch I'm most confident in, unless someone has proof that BM is not JusticeVigi.
I agree with the plan to claim from the bottom up, I'm just waiting until we get up to me. I'll do my best to check in on the thread throughout the day, because I don't want to slow the claims down. It seems to likely to me that scum don't have BC, but there's still the possibility that they do.
My votes will be on StrongAndBig, and my second vote will be on Austin. If someone has an anti-nuke to save him, I'll likely move my vote. This is the only other thing that makes me want to lynch him.
Sorry, but here's another thing that is similar to what you did with Artanis and VE. You shout someone is scum while softbussing scum.
You post like crazy that MZ is scum, then shortly affirm in your next post that your vote is on OO like it's some sort of justification for people telling you that MZ isn't a viable lynch for that day. You posted that last quote where you were voting for someone you thought might be scum more likely than the read you were pushing (MZ) as answer to this from austin:
What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence.
You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good.
Of which, out of all of them, you picked OO to put your vote on, while in a post shortly after you say this, except for geript these are the guys austin wondered about regarding you not wanting to lynch them:
On April 12 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:58 yamato77 wrote:On April 12 2013 03:51 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:On April 12 2013 03:42 austinmcc wrote:
If meapak were mafia he could have nuked D1 and didn't.
If meapak DOES have a silent nuke, it would have KILLED SOMEONE. Therefore, IF he had a silent nuke and used it, he killed either artanis or VE (the only people to die at the end of the day). They both flipped mafia. So IF there's a scary ol' silent nuke, it means he used it to kill mafia...
I don't terribly have a problem with someone thinking I was scum at the start of D2. I don't love my play up until that point, and could see nuking me if I were someone else. I don't find his play super anti-town in terms of nuke use except that he didn't check the thread a final time before posting what he'd been writing up. What's he done today? Seriously, the dude is LAZY MAFIA. I've been saying it all game, and he's done absolutely fucking nothing. Here's the thing. Maybe he's lazy mafia. If he's mafia, he voluntarily just didn't shoot D1. That seems like a poor choice. That's something that I would flag as saying, "Hey...hold up. This guy looks like he might be mafia, but he used his role in an odd manner for someone who is mafia." I would second guess my read on him. Then I would go, "Wait a minute, snb claimed a cop check on MZ." If snb is lying, he's taking a risk that there are no other whatever-cops above him on the chart. A small risk, but a risk. And maybe MZ is a gf, that's a possibility. But again, it's SOME/SLIGHT/DECENT evidence that MZ might not be mafia. Then, there are a couple other players with LESS in their favor, imo. What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence. You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good. I may appear tunneled, but in reality I'm just trying to work through some of the doubts I have about this game: Mocsta and his shot BM and his refusal to claim Oats' entire play M_Z and the mason circle Sharrant Shelvocke Sinani and the check (GF?) OO Vivax SnB EVERY FLIP FROM NIGHT 1 RO People I'm CONFIDENT that are town: Geript Sn0 Austin Keirathi You can see the discrepancy. Now if I was to take things at face value ( like you guys suggest), then the only people I want to lynch into dwindles: Shelvocke Sharrant OO If 2/3 or 3/3 of the remaining mafia are among them, then yeah, you guys are obviously on the right track here, but you don't really need me to accomplish hunting them, do you? It's already done; I know they have a chance at being mafia, so I'm trying to pursue opinions on other people to get a more clear picture of the game that isn't "tunneled".
This just looks like you were afraid to have your vote on your actual scumread and picked your scumbuddy to drop your vote on while pushing for everything else, in order to have a reason to switch if you managed to convince others.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Next chapter, post-lynch, he starts saying all sorts of inconsistent stuff:
On April 12 2013 04:23 yamato77 wrote:
Has anyone considered this possibility?
If BM is telling the truth, and is JV who shot mafia Caller, and Deconduo was actually mafia Janitor, there's only 1/5 mafia left.
Seems possible, no?
Thus, if we lynch mafia and don't win the game, and there's no anti-town third party, one of Mocsta/BM is probably mafia.
That's how I reached that conclusion.
On April 12 2013 10:46 yamato77 wrote:
Yeah, just shoot Vivax.
On April 12 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
Other potential candidate for last mafia if both Moc and BM are town is Shelvocke.
So yeah, this game is almost solved, assuming there are no more GF flips.
On April 13 2013 04:21 yamato77 wrote:
>_>
You guys are making this game more complicated than it should be.
How about we lynch Mocsta, since his shot was not on scum?
(Picking Mocsta over BM lol)
On April 13 2013 12:39 yamato77 wrote:
##Vote Vivax
Vivax isn't even interested in the game anymore, and is no longer active. He, as town, is spammy as fuck and insane the entire game.
Kill it.
Picking me over Shelvocke who he had as scum during lynch-day.
Lynch yamato
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Why geript could be scum
massive push against keirathi at end of night before he nukes BM:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2013 03:55 geript wrote:
People should reread Keirathi's filter again with consideration of the flips so far. On April 13 2013 04:18 geript wrote:
Just read his damn filter. Tell me if his D1 filter looks towny at all. On April 13 2013 04:37 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote:
Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments:
1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him.
2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO.
3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him.
4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch.
5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow.
Anyways, be back in a few hours. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote:On April 09 2013 21:38 Palmar wrote:
And I wrote the assassin and nra = scum analysis. I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote:Anyways: raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:23 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 26 2013 08:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn goes back to the shadows when he is called out on his argument.
Why are you scummy Rayn? Is he, though? Maybe that's all just in your head. A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 27 2013 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy crap Corazon is failing hard to even read my filter. I read your filter and all you've done is attack 6 people, all of which have been under pressure from others. I read your filter bro. Get some better defense. The fact is that rayn has brought new things to the table too; his analysis/vote of OO's second post, or Oats' apparent contradiction with the prplhz/Dandel cases - and indeed something came of this. Being active, suspicious of many people, and aggressively questioning are not what I think of as mafia characteristics. Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said. You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: On April 06 2013 10:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 06 2013 10:23 geript wrote:
Also, would someone familiar with Caller's meta tell me about him? Caller is actually town. Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote:
@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree. I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia.If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet Weak case on confirmed towny Rayn. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:57 Keirathi wrote:
@gonzaw:
I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else.
And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate.
Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. Hard defense of Artanis. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote:Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote:On April 07 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever. Kill me then. I can't hunt scum while not a single person in the entire game is taking me seriously.
##Vote: RestrainingOrder Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you. In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. Deflecting away from Artanis. On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote:
WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:
meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote:
I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Undertaker 21-0
GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote:
Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote:
@Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote:
I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin.
It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Look at this. He thinks Sharrant is chainsawing onto OO but qualifies with: Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:42 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP:
1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO.
I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. But seems to be thinking OO is likely scum or knowing he is: Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 10:59 Keirathi wrote:On April 11 2013 10:53 geript wrote:
Sharrant not likely scum. Shelvocke not likely scum. OO not likely scum. MZ is a big ?? Best lynch of those 4. Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. Read his filter and tell me he gives an actual reason for suspecting OO on D2. On April 13 2013 05:37 geript wrote:
If myself and BM die tonight, please nuke Kei. Kthnxbai
Day starts - relevant quotes:
On April 13 2013 12:09 geript wrote:
So mocsta, what did you think of my points?
On April 13 2013 12:30 Keirathi wrote:
I checked BM.
He is scum.
##Vote: Bill Murray
On April 13 2013 12:31 geript wrote:
Well that makes this easy...
Throw the Holy Hand Grenade at Bill Murray
Keirathi, geript's main scumread, announces red check, and geript immediately kills him, saying it's easy. That doesn't make any sense. Geript clearly didn't have the balls to doubt the check of his main scumread, and that's extremely scummy.
|
On April 17 2013 05:29 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 04:47 Vivax wrote:Why geript could be scum massive push against keirathi at end of night before he nukes BM: + Show Spoiler +On April 13 2013 03:55 geript wrote:
People should reread Keirathi's filter again with consideration of the flips so far. On April 13 2013 04:18 geript wrote:
Just read his damn filter. Tell me if his D1 filter looks towny at all. On April 13 2013 04:37 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote:
Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments:
1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him.
2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO.
3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him.
4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch.
5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow.
Anyways, be back in a few hours. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote:On April 09 2013 21:38 Palmar wrote:
And I wrote the assassin and nra = scum analysis. I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote:Anyways: raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:23 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 26 2013 08:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn goes back to the shadows when he is called out on his argument.
Why are you scummy Rayn? Is he, though? Maybe that's all just in your head. A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 27 2013 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy crap Corazon is failing hard to even read my filter. I read your filter and all you've done is attack 6 people, all of which have been under pressure from others. I read your filter bro. Get some better defense. The fact is that rayn has brought new things to the table too; his analysis/vote of OO's second post, or Oats' apparent contradiction with the prplhz/Dandel cases - and indeed something came of this. Being active, suspicious of many people, and aggressively questioning are not what I think of as mafia characteristics. Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said. You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: On April 06 2013 10:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 06 2013 10:23 geript wrote:
Also, would someone familiar with Caller's meta tell me about him? Caller is actually town. Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote:
@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree. I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia.If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet Weak case on confirmed towny Rayn. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:57 Keirathi wrote:
@gonzaw:
I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else.
And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate.
Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. Hard defense of Artanis. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote:Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote:On April 07 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever. Kill me then. I can't hunt scum while not a single person in the entire game is taking me seriously.
##Vote: RestrainingOrder Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you. In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. Deflecting away from Artanis. On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote:
WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:
meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote:
I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Undertaker 21-0
GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote:
Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote:
@Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote:
I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin.
It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Look at this. He thinks Sharrant is chainsawing onto OO but qualifies with: Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:42 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP:
1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO.
I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. But seems to be thinking OO is likely scum or knowing he is: Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 10:59 Keirathi wrote:On April 11 2013 10:53 geript wrote:
Sharrant not likely scum. Shelvocke not likely scum. OO not likely scum. MZ is a big ?? Best lynch of those 4. Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. Read his filter and tell me he gives an actual reason for suspecting OO on D2. On April 13 2013 05:37 geript wrote:
If myself and BM die tonight, please nuke Kei. Kthnxbai Day starts - relevant quotes: On April 13 2013 12:09 geript wrote:
So mocsta, what did you think of my points? On April 13 2013 12:30 Keirathi wrote:
I checked BM.
He is scum.
##Vote: Bill Murray On April 13 2013 12:31 geript wrote:
Well that makes this easy...
Throw the Holy Hand Grenade at Bill Murray Keirathi, geript's main scumread, announces red check, and geript immediately kills him, saying it's easy. That doesn't make any sense. Geript clearly didn't have the balls to doubt the check of his main scumread, and that's extremely scummy. This case is really bad, but I'm not sure if that necessarily indicates that Vivax is mafia. Do you think so?
Explain why geript believes the claim when it's a red check BM but doesn't believe it all the time just before.
Easy answer: Scum too pussy to stick to their fake reads in that situation. It would fuck them over too badly. If geript was town he would have made the "mistake" of defending BM, consistently with his scumread on Keirathi.
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Geript says it kills someone of opposite alignment (which is made up), Sno_Man just said it mustn't hit town, if that's the case then geript was forced to bus BM, and should have spent more than 1 minute to decide to bomb BM, given that his own life was at stake and the check came from his scumread.
But geript saw the check and didn't doublecheck, simply cause he knew he was going to survive and BM was dead anyway.
Confirmed town my ass. No matter what Dorftrottel says.
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Bleh, too trigger happy. I'm actually willing to reconsider my reads on yamato and geript, some early stuff with artanis makes them look good.
Shelvocke and Sinani it is, maybe there's no traitor after all.
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Btw Oats has to be checked cause he has a good chance at being scum as well (maybe even more than Shelvocke) upon inspecting associations. You're currently lynching your second DT in a row, so might think twice about doing that.
(GJ on lynching the second btw)
Geript, town's best DT killer.
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Like, you're so bad geript, you didn't see OO being scum when he was right in front of you and neglect me contributing among the first to his lynch, you've been pushing for lynches on all claimed DTs and still aren't able to realize that your reads are simply shit and that you don't question them enough, and you're throwing away the only chance you've left to narrow down the suspects cause you're so derp.
Go on
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On April 17 2013 08:04 yamato77 wrote:
You seemed to be all fine with Oats when he was arguing that I am mafia.
I reread him and scum's interactions with him, BM had some vivid, but not suspicious interactions with Oats. He asked VE and Artanis about some stuff.
Would lynch you and Oats today, and if we don't win already for hitting the last scum Shelvocke is traitor (who has been pushed kinda late before deadline by artanis).
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On April 17 2013 08:08 yamato77 wrote:
Vivax, I'm not geript, but that is unacceptable behavior.
It's not, telling him my opinion about his play is acceptable, you can get at me when I start swearing and calling him names. His reads since D1 with his VE-push were pure garbage and that's a fact. Him pushing all claimed DTs and always being wrong is another fact.
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Ok.
On April 17 2013 05:18 yamato77 wrote:
Vivax still caring about "finding mafia" this late in the game is a point in his favor. This is also consistent with his town meta of being completely confirmation biased, so yeah.
The arguments for him being scum aren't great, to be honest. He was uninvolved for a while, but we all were.
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Want another slap in the face, scummato?
On April 05 2013 11:53 yamato77 wrote:
Justify your suspicion on Artanis.
On April 05 2013 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:He's hiding in plain sight. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 ![[image loading]](http://www.grapevinetxonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Thomas-the-Train-Grapevine-Texas.jpg) See that rayn^ That's a train. Think of that train as your current case on RO ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Amtrak_crash.jpg) See that rayn^ That's a train crash. That's what happens when you tunnel without a real case. Out of curiosity, are there any posts of decondou's that stick out to you that made you think he was scummy?
On April 05 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
Gonzaw, what do you make of MZ basically trolling the thread and saying very little about anything?
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That was actually just some little bit, some more juice, additionally to your weak VE and Artanis bus, comes now:
On April 06 2013 10:25 yamato77 wrote:
I will say, I want to see more from this VE/RO exchange.
I feel like at least one is mafia.
No followup whatsoever to find out who of them is mafia.
On April 07 2013 02:15 yamato77 wrote:
Palmar's comment on VE, even if VE is scum, is also no reason to think him town. It's a passing comment made that follows thread sentiment. In no way is Palmar taking that read of VE seriously.
Premature weighing in of towncred Palmar would gain from a VE lynch. Which town bothers making a connection case to argue against a townread at this point?
On April 07 2013 11:29 yamato77 wrote:
I wanna kill Palmar.
##Vote Palmar
Anyone who disagrees with me is scum.
VE/RO scum doesn't matter at all now.
When austin questions yamato as to why he wants to lynch Palmar:
On April 07 2013 12:34 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 12:22 austinmcc wrote:On April 07 2013 12:15 yamato77 wrote:
Does town Palmar try to look involved at all if he doesn't care about the game? Things to look into before voting him on that basis! Especially whether he was active in pre-games of past PYPs! You fail to understand what I'm saying. Town Palmar doesn't give fucks, sure, but he doesn't make a point of telling the thread multiple times that he doesn't give a fuck. He's better than any of you guys' lynchbait options.
Austin was pushing Shelvocke at the time (unclear if yamato only referred to him as lynchbait)
Anyway, yamato then came up with this:
On April 07 2013 13:25 yamato77 wrote:
He's pushing VE.
How do you feel about VE?
Asks about VE who he thinks might be scum, while VE is in the thread. And yet yamato basically ignores VE despite saying that one of RO/VE must be scum, instead he attacks Palmar who wants to lynch VE, prematurely attacks his cred for a VE lynch.
Noncommittal list post:
On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote:
Going to bed.
When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people:
VE
PALMAR
SINANI
MEAPAK
AUSTIN
One of them will get lynched.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Some stuff actually in yamato's favour:
On April 07 2013 13:41 yamato77 wrote:
Can you explain your townread on VE, Bill?
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote:
Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum.
As for who to vig, it n should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town.
As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore.
but he posted it AFTER OO's bus post. So we can assume scum gave up on defending artanis already and started the bussing, and he actually moved on to push for another lynch than VE or artanis, as pointed out earlier.
@ geript
Godfather, since he was among the last to pick and no townie would pick that anyway. Also helped BM confirm his justice vig claim which is a role I wouldn't pick as town anyway.
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Maybe it's all just pointless and Shelvocke is the last scum, laughing while I flail around compulsively. Wouldn't be the first time I do that lol, but I get easily worked up as town. Apologies for any offenses btw.
Yamato backseat modding still doesn't help us win the game.
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Other stuff, regarding OO and yamato
Earlier information by me, here:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote:
LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK On April 12 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:41 Keirathi wrote:On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote:
LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK No. YES On April 12 2013 03:54 yamato77 wrote:OO I have my vote on. Most of Sharrant comes across as very "clean" and thought out, but I'm not going to call him scum for that, because it doesn't seem like a strong heuristic. He could very well be town, but the fact that he defended Artanis AND VE is not a good thing. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:40 Sharrant wrote:
Good morning, everyone.
I'm glad to see I was wrong about Artanis and VisceraEyes.
I'll be writing up a longer post in a minute but I wanted to ask two questions first:
If the role reverser were used on a justice vigi when they shot a mafia member, what would be the end result? Would both/either player live through the shot?
If the role reverser used his power on the janitor when the janitor did not use his power, would it activate or would the role reverser fizzle out because no action was taken by the janitor? Do people actually say that kind of shit when they're wrong? It seems unnaturally complacent with this "pro-town" ideal he has going on in ihis filter. Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 00:18 Sharrant wrote:
I'm not particularly happy with any other lynch right now. I'd like to lynch StrongAndBig as things currently stand. Even his lynch has too many "what ifs" in my mind, but that's the lynch I'm most confident in, unless someone has proof that BM is not JusticeVigi.
I agree with the plan to claim from the bottom up, I'm just waiting until we get up to me. I'll do my best to check in on the thread throughout the day, because I don't want to slow the claims down. It seems to likely to me that scum don't have BC, but there's still the possibility that they do.
My votes will be on StrongAndBig, and my second vote will be on Austin. If someone has an anti-nuke to save him, I'll likely move my vote. This is the only other thing that makes me want to lynch him. Sorry, but here's another thing that is similar to what you did with Artanis and VE. You shout someone is scum while softbussing scum. You post like crazy that MZ is scum, then shortly affirm in your next post that your vote is on OO like it's some sort of justification for people telling you that MZ isn't a viable lynch for that day. You posted that last quote where you were voting for someone you thought might be scum more likely than the read you were pushing (MZ) as answer to this from austin: What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence.
You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good.
Of which, out of all of them, you picked OO to put your vote on, while in a post shortly after you say this, except for geript these are the guys austin wondered about regarding you not wanting to lynch them: On April 12 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:58 yamato77 wrote:On April 12 2013 03:51 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:On April 12 2013 03:42 austinmcc wrote:
If meapak were mafia he could have nuked D1 and didn't.
If meapak DOES have a silent nuke, it would have KILLED SOMEONE. Therefore, IF he had a silent nuke and used it, he killed either artanis or VE (the only people to die at the end of the day). They both flipped mafia. So IF there's a scary ol' silent nuke, it means he used it to kill mafia...
I don't terribly have a problem with someone thinking I was scum at the start of D2. I don't love my play up until that point, and could see nuking me if I were someone else. I don't find his play super anti-town in terms of nuke use except that he didn't check the thread a final time before posting what he'd been writing up. What's he done today? Seriously, the dude is LAZY MAFIA. I've been saying it all game, and he's done absolutely fucking nothing. Here's the thing. Maybe he's lazy mafia. If he's mafia, he voluntarily just didn't shoot D1. That seems like a poor choice. That's something that I would flag as saying, "Hey...hold up. This guy looks like he might be mafia, but he used his role in an odd manner for someone who is mafia." I would second guess my read on him. Then I would go, "Wait a minute, snb claimed a cop check on MZ." If snb is lying, he's taking a risk that there are no other whatever-cops above him on the chart. A small risk, but a risk. And maybe MZ is a gf, that's a possibility. But again, it's SOME/SLIGHT/DECENT evidence that MZ might not be mafia. Then, there are a couple other players with LESS in their favor, imo. What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence. You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good. I may appear tunneled, but in reality I'm just trying to work through some of the doubts I have about this game: Mocsta and his shot BM and his refusal to claim Oats' entire play M_Z and the mason circle Sharrant Shelvocke Sinani and the check (GF?) OO Vivax SnB EVERY FLIP FROM NIGHT 1 RO People I'm CONFIDENT that are town: Geript Sn0 Austin Keirathi You can see the discrepancy. Now if I was to take things at face value ( like you guys suggest), then the only people I want to lynch into dwindles: Shelvocke Sharrant OO If 2/3 or 3/3 of the remaining mafia are among them, then yeah, you guys are obviously on the right track here, but you don't really need me to accomplish hunting them, do you? It's already done; I know they have a chance at being mafia, so I'm trying to pursue opinions on other people to get a more clear picture of the game that isn't "tunneled". This just looks like you were afraid to have your vote on your actual scumread and picked your scumbuddy to drop your vote on while pushing for everything else, in order to have a reason to switch if you managed to convince others. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Next chapter, post-lynch, he starts saying all sorts of inconsistent stuff: On April 12 2013 04:23 yamato77 wrote:
Has anyone considered this possibility?
If BM is telling the truth, and is JV who shot mafia Caller, and Deconduo was actually mafia Janitor, there's only 1/5 mafia left.
Seems possible, no?
Thus, if we lynch mafia and don't win the game, and there's no anti-town third party, one of Mocsta/BM is probably mafia.
That's how I reached that conclusion. On April 12 2013 10:46 yamato77 wrote:
Yeah, just shoot Vivax. On April 12 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
Other potential candidate for last mafia if both Moc and BM are town is Shelvocke.
So yeah, this game is almost solved, assuming there are no more GF flips. On April 13 2013 04:21 yamato77 wrote:
>_>
You guys are making this game more complicated than it should be.
How about we lynch Mocsta, since his shot was not on scum? (Picking Mocsta over BM lol) On April 13 2013 12:39 yamato77 wrote:
##Vote Vivax
Vivax isn't even interested in the game anymore, and is no longer active. He, as town, is spammy as fuck and insane the entire game.
Kill it. Picking me over Shelvocke who he had as scum during lynch-day.
More stuff:
OO had been afk for a while, then Mocsta made case on OO and voted him. Yamato reacts with this:
On April 11 2013 14:54 yamato77 wrote:
I don't like killing OO.
He has been very uninvolved compared to Red Team's Prize, though.
Oats declares that he wants to lynch OO as second in vote row (of valid votes) here, Obvious makes comeback post, and yamato responds to it with this.
Yamato slaps down his vote on two? guys, OO and some other dude, here, then comes back later and pulls off the same shit he did with VE and Artanis (being weak busses), he tries to start a bandwagon on another player, MZ here.
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Every time yamato posted a scumread on some scummer, he didn't follow it through and didn't try hard to get them lynched, instead he talked about a lot of other stuff after posting something against them, that's easily visible in the filter.
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That's a good reason to lynch someone, not a comrade in arms or not post, that was a reference to me smurfing as Ghor in Noir Mini, where I wrote like a retarded russian.
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Whatever, I dug up a lot of information and reasoning lately and can't say much more. Lynch your last cop and proceed to realize yamato is scum and Shelvocke possibly traitor when it should be an idiot-safe choice to make, maybe you'll pass that test later if you get the chance to. Oats (for early OO vote), RO , Mocsta, geript, sinani (if not godfather as addition) town. So take your pick.
The uncounterclaimed parity cop versus two vanilla of which one helped BM's claim and the other has 3 pages of filter, you guys are really smart.
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Pretty hard to lose in that case though so I shouldn't even be mad.
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On April 17 2013 09:22 Mocsta wrote:
Vivax
Last chance
Explain to me why ro is town to you.
And if he is framer, why he can't have godfather perk.
Gogogo
It's up to you to make the correct choice, I did identify the scum, so suck it.
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Here, I'll spoonfeed this to you why I'm not scum (it's easy for some, harder for others):
First post was during N1.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2013 07:32 Vivax wrote:I do agree on ObviousOne though, I noticed that he only spent time bullshitting around after posting his Artanis case. Looks to me like he only posted it to look good. Here, filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=73#1456He was also the 7th or 8th to vote for him, and the fact he felt the need to post such an extensive case only makes him look worse when he could have simply sheeped or pushed others to vote for him. If you shoot OO you're the next hero. On April 10 2013 11:34 Vivax wrote:
I wanna lynch Sno_Man or OO. I'm starting to find Mocsta interesting.
I don't think austin is a good target for nuke, he's talkative enough and doesn't troll. On April 11 2013 01:15 Vivax wrote:
I voted OO btw.
Let's lynch him. On April 11 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta let's lynch ObviousOne.
That'd be real gangsta. On April 11 2013 02:06 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 02:00 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 11 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta let's lynch ObviousOne.
That'd be real gangsta. What would be gangsta about it? Why do you wish to be gangsta? How will it help town win this mafia game? He expressed interest into VE when he got under pressure, promised to look into him, never did.But was fine with throwing around his other two reads. + Show Spoiler +
VE: I've been aware he's in two games since I am/was on the replacement list for his other game (Noir Mini I) so I expect this game to suffer more due to the nature of Noir being instant majority. I'll review him as we approach the midpoint of day so there's hopefully something more there.
Keirathi: I'm more green than null on Kei, but that's more bias based on how I perceive him as a person than a player so now that he's finished jerking off for 12 hours straight [lol take a nap, dude] should be able to identify if my bias is clouding my perception of him.
RO: He's another one I will want to review before the midpoint of day. I believe I mentioned earlier his D0 was more helpful/proactive than he was all game in LX [my opinion, didn't review LX] so he's at least Null.
He started summarizing inconclusive meta points about Artanis when he got under pressure + Show Spoiler +@Gonzaw:
Artanis[XP] mafia meta highlights based on his one recorded scum game in the database: Haunted Mafia
- Replaced into game at P64
- GG out P116
- Total of perhaps 8 "useful" posts over 50 pages
Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:
- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games
- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool
- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself
- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction
I'm looking for something more recent, but Artanis tends to host games rather than play... search filter only went back to March 2012 and the database shows no scum games other than Haunted. to show up the day after as 8th to vote for him with an extensive meta case, but barely considering what had been happening in the thread, and never pushing for any lynch despite posting such a huge case (which was at a weird time cause Artanis was already dead, basically, and imo he only posted it to look good after flip. On April 11 2013 10:08 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 09:53 Mocsta wrote:On April 11 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2013 09:39 Mocsta wrote:
o vivax thats a twist of events
austin wasnt the strongest scum.cndidate going forward.today
to release the check is protown as its meant to remove an option from discussion so we can focus better What if I fakeclaim, oh look I tried to pick cop it wasn't available sowwy I'm just a VT. Nothing going to change if I claim. Scum can lie, and it doesn't make anyone town. I'd rather show I'm town through my actions, not help scum choose their NK targets. Thats not a response to what i said. I commented that u think austin and kei and sno doing a power play. U talkjng about the claim. Im not asking u to claim. Im just saying u r the hold up. I don't leave any stone unturned. I don't have enough base to claim they're doing powerplay, but I have a base to say hat MZ and OO look really really really scummy. On April 12 2013 01:57 Vivax wrote:
Question: S & B claimed that MZ is town america, but where's the D1 nuke then?
I can currently just support a shot on OO, he's scum.
Rereading Sharrant and BM now since MZ and S & B seem to be off the hook. On April 12 2013 03:05 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta is not scum he doesn't do abrasive shit as scum, go read Personality 2, he was nice and reasonable, and he didn't try to jump into your face with what he had to say.
Lynch ObviousOne. On April 12 2013 03:12 Vivax wrote:
I don't care about mocsta either way. OO best lynch, he scum tryin to look good with his cases but no interest whatsoever in pursuing what he claims to believe. On April 12 2013 09:08 Vivax wrote:
Unvoted Sharrant cause OO is a better lynch if I'm the first or second.
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Compare it to yamato's followup after his cases or posts against Artanis, VE and OO and you learned something new on how to find scum.
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Mocsta, did you already use your KP?
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On April 17 2013 14:33 yamato77 wrote:
>_________________________>
<_________________________<
Tonight, I'm going to analyze all you people. One of you is mafia. I will know who by lynch time tomorrow.
Empty promises
No analysis whatsoever when it matters
lynch....him....baddies
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Watch yamato pushing for Sinani or Oats tomorrow.
Predictable.
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If Shel isn't scum that is :|
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EPT
