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Acrofales
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Acrofales
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On March 26 2013 08:12 Dandel Ion wrote: What a scummy bandwagon of scum. Hey Acro, come over here. Let's tunnel marv. It'll be fun. My name is Acro and I am a Vanilla Townie. Marv, however, is scum! | ||
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On March 26 2013 09:14 Grackaroni wrote: What scum motivations are there to claim that you haven't read your role PM? That makes no sense to me. Same as in Personality... and guess what, Ver was actually scum (although he didn't lie about not reading his role PM). It is a retarded approach to playing this game either way. Also, scum will know automagically, because they will eventually get spammed by PMs from their teammates, so even if he is trying some new and improved way of playing like an idiot, the "you have 18 new PMs" should clue him into the fact that he is scum. If town, all he's doing is playing like a derp because he doesn't know if he's blue or not. | ||
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On March 26 2013 09:25 Palmar wrote: ##Vote: ObviousOne ![[image loading]](http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad148/traceyw_2010/animated%20smilies/1lg116ninja.gif) | ||
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On March 26 2013 09:28 Nisani201 wrote: I highly doubt that there are people who haven't read their role PMs. I did that in Personality and it turned out Ver had in fact not read his role PM. And I did it as scum, when I knew Ver was not in the scumQT. I STILL found it a reason to start up pressure on him. I learned. I adjusted: they are not automatically scum. They are just idiots to be ignored. | ||
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In both cases, lynching them would have been equivalent to a random lynch. I don't feel like random lynching, so lets find scum instead and IGNORE OO until he starts playing the damn game like a normal player. I don't think ANYTHING that has happened so far says anything about anybody's alignment... except Marv, whose very existence proves he's scum. | ||
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Why do you feel prplhz's posting is scummy? | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:02 cDgCorazon wrote: I love how everyone: Actually believes that OO hasn't read his role pm. and Is now going to talk about meta reads even when Ace just posted a thread saying meta reads should not be followed. -slow claps- 1. Do you believe OO read his role PM? If you don't believe it, then how can you see anything townie about it? 2. Ace is not god and I disagree with his opinion about meta. | ||
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On March 26 2013 08:09 Hapahauli wrote: 1) I policy lynch people who don't read their role PM because it's incredibly anti-town. 2) My name is Hapa. 3) I am a pink unicorn. ##Vote ObviousOne Wait. This is something I do NOT understand. Why is not reading your role PM anti-town? It is stupid. Yes. But: If town, you are, at worst, missing out on a blue role. Given that town should never rely on blue roles (they are helpful, but what should win the game for town is the lynch) and assuming you play as a townie, if you haven't read your role PM, you are still contributing your most important contribution to town. If scum, you are not town. Therefore, if you are playing like a townie, you are (potentially) playing against your own wincon. That is fucking fantastic for town. The downside, of course, is that you are not playing like scum, and it is therefore hard for townies to find you. But a D1 policy lynch sounds pretty stupid. If 3P, you are not town, so if you are playing like a townie, that is great for town, and possibly not so great for you (depending on wincon) Therefore, if Hapa BELIEVES OO is not reading his role PM, then he should NOT be trying to lynch him. The reason for wanting to lynch someone who claims not to have read his role PM, is because you don't believe him (and the only reason to lie about not having read your role PM is because you're scum trying to spread chaotic misinformation). Hapa should know this. Hapa, explain why you are policy voting OO? | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:14 strongandbig wrote: If he was going to be true to his ideal, he should either have apple posting and waited until someone said something he could comment on in a worthwhile way, or he should have made an effort to do some legitimate analysis on something that was in the thread. You should always be making the best case you can make, even if best isn't very good yet. 2 posts into the game, prplhz should be making cases... right. I believe the aim for the first few pages of D1 is always to create discussion. Different people do that differently. I see nothing inherently scummy about the way prplhz did that this game. As for going against his own advice: we can sit here and debate prplhz, but I have never seen him spam up the thread. Chances are we'll be calling him a borderline lurker before too long. So a few fluff posts at the start of the game don't contradict his wish for a short and well-reasoned-out thread. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? No. There is NEVER a reason to allow bad reasoning to run rampant in the thread. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:34 Hapahauli wrote: Sure it is. It means that you can post without being held accountable for anything that you post. It provides a ton of misleading information and promotes people trolling for the hell of it. I've had to deal with this in the last few games I've played and quite frankly I'm sick of it. With the rather serious risk of bussing your teammates. If he trolls and does nothing useful, then we lynch him THEN. I see no reason to policy lynch. I will DEFINITELY hold him accountable for everything he posts. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:41 cDgCorazon wrote: My comment about the meta reads was directed at this post: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 09:42 Acrofales wrote: Lets put it this way: the only people with any reason to lie about not having read their role PM are scum. However, given my experiences, the 2 previous times I encountered this phenomenon, the player had in fact not read his role PM. Once was Drazerk, so good luck figuring out his motives. And the other was Ver in Personality 2, who was trying some new and improved way of playing, which failed miserably due to time constraints. In both cases, lynching them would have been equivalent to a random lynch. I don't feel like random lynching, so lets find scum instead and IGNORE OO until he starts playing the damn game like a normal player. I don't think ANYTHING that has happened so far says anything about anybody's alignment... except Marv, whose very existence proves he's scum. I've been saying the whole time that the whole thing about OO was silly. It was relevant when I said it, and it was relevant when I read a few more posts and saw people still talking about it. I'm trying to get people to actually take this seriously. Unlike Rayn, who made a joke vote but called it serious and has gone on to attack 3 separate people and back down when they decide to actually put up a fight against Rayn. It's timid scummy play. @Rayn: Who is the scummiest player here so far and why? But there WAS NO META THERE. I never once said OO is town because he did that, or scum. I just gave previous examples of people doing that and not lying about it, and therefore it should be ignored until OO starts playing the damn game. I said: I choose to believe OO this time, and will therefore ignore everything he says until I can make a read on him, taking into account that he may, in fact, not have read his role PM. However, if you BELIEVE OO is lying about not having read his role PM; you should really be in favour of lynching him. The ONLY reason to LIE about this, is because he's scum. There is no townie reason to lie and say you have not read your role PM. Your weird stance on the matter is setting all number of alarmbells off. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:53 Palmar wrote: Hello thread. I have concluded that Grackaroni is scum. Please lynch him. ##Vote Grackaroni I don't believe you. ##vote Palmar | ||
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On March 26 2013 11:00 Palmar wrote: No you didn't, in fact this sentence cannot possibly be true, since the latter part "so I did too" implies that you voted based on my vote, and thus you have a reason, which contradicts your first sentence that claims there is no reason to either vote. While true, it is an entirely pointless post to make, just as everything you have done so far, including your initial ninja-vote on the flavour-of-the-day. | ||
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##unvote | ||
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On March 26 2013 12:49 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I've read Dandel as town and he usually attempts to justify his actions more so than he is here. Perhaps that's not your perception of him, but I will check again to see. Regardless, you seem a little too content to let him do nothing but troll this game. Your faith that he is going so magically do something different than he has so far is misplaced, in my opinion. Meh. Later in the game. No alarm bells have gone off yet. DI will spam fluff regardless of alignment. Later on in D1 and as the game continues I expect more from him. Voting for him now is basically a policy lynch on his playstyle. Imho, there is nothing indicative of alignment from him so far. What do you think of Palmar? | ||
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I am more interested in returning to Smurf. His position on DI just seems too glib. Not sure how to say it differently, but the read feels forced and there is something weird about how he backs down from it so easily. What he says about Palmar hits about right, although I am more cautious. Meh, I need more info. Smurf, what is your opinion on Hapa? | ||
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Anyway, town Marv WILL be productive if you leave him to do his thing. I think that that is pretty much proven. | ||
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On March 26 2013 13:41 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Do I really even have to tell you I think you look the most town out of everyone so far? I think you're a good enough player to know how people read you, Hapa. I am really surprised that you have Hapa down as obvious town. I don't think it's that obvious at all. Especially given Hapa's rather tricksy scumplay. | ||
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On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote: Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales You are terrible. I made a lot of sense in the beginning of the game. My VERY FIRST serious post was my opinion on OO's claim. The rest of my filter has my opinion on DI, prplhz and Marv. Off the top of my head. Probably anything else that has been discussed in the thread too. This game gonna be easy. Lynch the liar! ##vote Nisani201 | ||
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On March 26 2013 14:28 Nisani201 wrote: Acrofales was telling other people what they should do depending on whether they believed OO was lying. He did not mention if he thought OO was lying or not. The latter. I believe I made it quite clear that it doesn't matter. I will judge his play as if he HAS read his role PM, but I choose to believe he hasn't. All the claim does is put pressure on him to act as a townie, because if he uses it to be useless, then it increases the chance that he DID in fact read his role PM and is scum using the excuse to be useless and not be held accountable for his actions. However, if he DOES act as a townie, then worst-case, he is scum with a chance of bussing his buddies. I don't mind scum who bus their scumbuddies at all. They're my favourite kind of scum. They then get caught lategame, because they'll have to survive umpteen lynches all by themselves (and if he still hasn't read his role PM, then he has to survive without KP, making it all the easier to catch him) Now I have said that before. Twice, in different words and maybe not in this much detail. But it was my first few posts, when I was supposedly BEING USEFUL. How the fuck are you calling those posts useful without actually knowing their content? | ||
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On March 26 2013 14:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait wait wait what? How do you propose we catch this 'scum' who hasnt read his role pm? If you say that he acts like a townie, what differentiates him from the other townies? How does him having no KP make it easier? Wtf acro. USE YOUR BRAIN FOR ONCE. IN. A. MAFIA. GAME. EVER. PLEASE. We lynch scum. We lynch another scum. We lynch another scum. KP stops. Golly, I wonder who could be the last scum? Maybe that dude who still hasn't read his role PM and therefore doesn't know he should be sending in nightly hits! Also, if he does read his role PM in time to send in the NKs and you reach 2-1 lylo with someone who looked townie all game and someone who has looked townie, but claimed not to read his role PM, LYNCH THE FUCKING GUY WHO HASN'T READ HIS ROLE PM UNTIL LATE IN THE GAME. If town has people left who failed to look properly townie alive after a minimum of 5 lynches, in which 3 scum were nailed, then I don't know what to tell you. Townies failed miserably. | ||
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I don't quite know what Grack has done to deserve all this attention. I understand Palmar's initial point, which I don't really agree with is all that scummy, but at least I understand what he was saying. However, since then I have had no problem with Grack at all and Keirathi's case is outright bad and feels like Keir is simply making a case to get a wagon rolling. I don't like that at all. Palmar, you should drop Grack and start lynching Nisani, whose sole contribution is one big fat lie. | ||
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On March 26 2013 21:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Come on, I used the 'marv doesnt look townie, therefore he is scum' argument in Duel. It wasnt true. In all seriousness, who are your scumreads? It was also completely wrong there, because Marv looked townie in Duel. But I still advocate prudence. Getting into a tunnelfest with Marv is not going to help town. A better argument is that he didn't look townie in MTG 2 and DI and I tunneled him into oblivion, when he was actually town. DI, why are you convinced he's scum THIS game? | ||
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On March 26 2013 22:12 marvellosity wrote: Actually if I'm quiet it makes it much harder to push my agenda, if I'm mafia. Anyways I'm going to leave OO alone for now. He already provided more opinions (although not very categorical) than he managed in the entirety of the first cycle in Hydra, when he was easily caught. ##Unvote What a pointless thing to say (the first). If you're quiet and not pushing lynches you are useless as either alignment. That doesn't make you town. | ||
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On March 26 2013 13:53 Hapahauli wrote: Oh come on. If there's anything you should have learned from Duel Mini is that my scum-game is pretty easy to catch if spend 2 minutes looking at my meta. The meta case was on D3. On D1 I (and the entire thread) had you as scum for a retarded 180 on Iamp. Without that I would probably have had you as a tentative town read D1 (and I had you down as a tentative town read all the way until Yamato dueled you). I don't see how being able to catch you as scum on D3 with meta is supposed to make you obvious town early on D1. I don't understand how Smurf has you down as obvious town NOW. | ||
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On March 26 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote: If you're lynching Oats based on contradictions, you'll lynch him in every single game you play with him. While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play. His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140 I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style. | ||
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On March 26 2013 23:46 strongandbig wrote: + Show Spoiler [keirathi's case post] + On March 26 2013 15:08 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, I'm much more interested in Grack right now. I wasn't particularly awed by Palmar's vote/case and Hapa's input, but his interactions afterward have been much worse IMO. He doesn't call out the bullshit vote. He panics, and questions it to figure out what he did wrong. I don't know any townie who reacts to a random vote on themselves by saying "OH GOD WHAT DID I DO?" Some get mad at the 'bad' play, some ignore it completely, and some vote the person back. But, even more than that: He's looking for a way out. He doesn't volunteer information, he wants to know what information Palmar wants, so that he can give the "right" answer, rather than a "real" answer. And finally: The bolded points feel like more "oh crap, I re-read my posts and realize I made some mistakes. Time for damage control". Like, he was already looking back at his posts to see how they LOOKED. His first reaction was to apologize for how they were perceived. THEN he explains himself better. It betrays his mindset of caring about his appearance. How can you say that this stuff is not alignment indicative? "Caring more about looking townie than actually helping town" is like the *definition* of alignment indicative. I'm seeing a lot I don't like from acro at the moment. Also yeah I've been getting uber shat on but it would be cool if prplhz showed up sometime in the next few hours and posted some stuff. There's quite a lot that he could actually comment on now productively and without unnecessarily cluttering the thread again. Because that's not at all the way I read those posts. 1. Keirathi says this is a scummy response. I don't see why. Palmar places an unjustified vote, and Grack asks why. Null. 2. On March 26 2013 11:24 Grackaroni wrote: I really don't think you will. Give me something in the thread you want me to respond to and I will give you my opinion. (not much has stood out to me so far). By the way I'm just curious. Do you remember me from any other games? By focusing only on the second sentence, Keirathi transforms the meaning imho. I read it as "BRING IT. Anything in particular you want to talk about?" This doesn't mean he won't talk otherwise. Anyway, insecure people looking for guidance from their town reads is not a scumtell. Hence: null. 3. Admitting failure. Yeah, still not scum. It's simply an approach to playing the game. Seen plenty of townies, and scummers, do this. Null tell. And that was the entirety of Keirathi's fantabulous case. Big fucking load of bunk. | ||
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I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is. Raynpelikoneet does not look particularly scummy to me. There are some posts I don't like: + Show Spoiler [this one] + On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. + Show Spoiler [and this one] + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. However, neither of these are particularly concerning... and while his case on OO was somewhat OMGUS, I think he picked on some good points and OO's case really was just a bad association case based on unflipped players. Mostly, however, I like that he does not seem concerned to speak his mind or share his reads, and I don't get the feeling that he is just throwing suspicion around to see where it sticks. In closing: he's not a scumspect at the moment. I'm not really liking what I see in Cora's filter. In particular this post: On March 26 2013 15:17 cDgCorazon wrote: Acro you are blowing OO saying that he hasn't read his role pm way out of proportion. It was annoying at first, but now it's looking scummy. came at a time when I was NOT talking about OO at all (except to answer Oats' stupid question). In fact, I only directly talk about OO in two posts, the rest is all using it as a springboard to analyse OTHER players' reactions to it. At the time, I had specifically singled out two reactions as feeling off: Nisani's and Cora's own. Trying to flip it back just reaks of panicked OMGUS. However, given how Cora was a rather easy mislynch in Personality 2, I am hesitant to just outright call him scum for this behaviour. While I don't agree with his read on Rayn, his posts about it are reasonable and he seems forthcoming with his opinion. My main scumspect is still Nisani. His case was a pack of lies and he has disappeared from the thread again. Lynch him. Here is his case on me: On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote: Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales My first few posts were where I gave my opinion about OO's claim. How can those be my most sensible posts when he has clearly not even read them properly?! It's because he is scum and needed to contribute, so jumped on something without thinking it through, that's why. ##revote Nisani201 for emphasis. | ||
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On March 27 2013 02:46 ObviousOne wrote: Oh. That's cool. Carry on then. You don't have to try to convince me I'm scum. While you're here, summarize your feelings about Grack for me, 'kay? OO, who's your top scumread? Your filter is VERY vague and says nothing about who you think is scum. | ||
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On March 27 2013 02:53 marvellosity wrote: Grackeroni is an infinitely better lynch than either rayn or Obvious. Obvious isn't playing scared at all which was the overarching theme of his play in Hydra Mafia (even with VE for support). Acro, I'll check what you said about Nisani when I'm home and have some time later. What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way. Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity? | ||
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On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote: Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster. Is Oats town or scum to you? This still holds: On March 26 2013 23:27 Acrofales wrote: While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play. His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140 I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style. I would have to take a closer look at LIX to see whether a blatant 180 like he took on his SnB read is something he might do as scum. However, first I'm going to look at your town meta. I don't really see what Marv does in your scum meta that is so very different from your play this game. But I admit I only know you from NMM37, which is not very representative at all for any kind of meta. | ||
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I had that suspicion, but thought he could be promethelax as well. How sure are you? Because I can see Yamato making a bad half-arsed meta case, but Prom is far more meticulous and should be insta-lynched if he makes a case like that. | ||
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On March 27 2013 04:28 Nisani201 wrote: Good morning everyone. The case on Grack is really weak, and if it were made by someone other than Palmar it probably wouldn't be getting nearly as far as it is now. Just because Smurf made a bad case doesn't mean he's scum. He looks town now and there shouldn't be any suspicion on him. Acrofales is making a bit more sense but his case on me is just a bunch of OMGUS. Acro, who is your secondary suspect? So... you have gone from having me as a scumspect for a terrible reason to throwing out some town reads. Who do you think is scum? There are a bunch of people I think could be scum as well. Cora, Sinani and OO are currently vying for second spot. I just looked over OO's town meta in Fruity and LX and it is very different from his play this game. Far more engaged and discussing things with people, less over-analysing and vague reads. | ||
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On March 27 2013 05:09 prplhz wrote: @Acrofales What you think about Palmar? What did Nisani201 say to make you think that he is scum? Just a line or two, I'm not a big fan of huge posts. And yes, I did read your filter so please bear with me if there was something I didn't understand and say it one more time  I thought Palmar's early play was somewhat town. Since then all he has done is pop in from time to time to yell that we should lynch Grack. Not a lynch priority, because Palmar doing something D1 is better than nothing, but pretty null overall. 2 lines: his case on me misrepresented my play malignantly and contained an obvious contradiction. Creating fake scumreads is scum behaviour. | ||
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On March 27 2013 05:51 Hapahauli wrote: @InsertSmurfHere When you backpedaled from your case on Dandel, your main "excuse" was that you took his behavior in British 1 and Personality 2 and made an illogical comparison. However, it's hard to believe that you didn't make that excuse up retroactively considering how you approached your case. Not only did you make no mention of this in your original case, but your post right after I call you out on it suggests that you were completely unfamiliar with town-Dandel's meta: Explain good sir. If Smurf is Yamato, then he PLAYED with DI in at least one game where they were both town (Personality 2), so how does this even make sense? | ||
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That is a good point. | ||
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On March 27 2013 06:16 cDgCorazon wrote: It's a bit weak but I need to get out of this mindset where I tunnel people. It's my biggest flaw in town play. I'm suspicious of him still, but he's done enough not to land my vote so far (he's started to consolidate his reads a bit more and hasn't acted as paranoid). I wanted to pressure Yamato anyways. He's basically being hypocritical when he's calling me out for not scum hunting. I want to say that I really like this post. It is pretty easy to fake as scum, but if you're town and making a conscious effort to improve your play by not tunneling, I am impressed. As scum, I wouldn't expect you to give up a comfy tunnel as you just did, so some townie points for that as well. | ||
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On March 27 2013 05:58 ObviousOne wrote: In the interests of having meaningful discussion about today's candidates, I would like to see everyone take a stand on who they think should be up for lynch today so we can talk about the candidates and not miss out on the opportunity to hear from people who are in opposite time zones or not able to be in the thread at various points during the day. We're coming up on the halfway point of the day portion and this is the optimal time to switch gears and makes for a good opportunity for any lingering cases yet to be made to get posted in the thread before votes are stuck in useless places due to not being around. Original post regarding Grack: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote: Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird. Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? Dot points outlining why I think Grack is scum: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2013 03:13 ObviousOne wrote: You just don't have a handle on how I play. Marv understands me better. This is how I do. When I talk about something, it's typically because it's either worth replying to or the person I'm talking about is a scum-read of mine or someone I'm interested in getting a better read on myself. There's no reason to talk about townies except in passing and/or when referring to cases. I thought Kei was scummy yesterday but he's looking better today and I have dropped it. I'm hedging my bets on Grack being scum - responded to Palmar's pressure by giving Palmar a town read instead of an alternate lynch proposition - no substantial positions taken outside of calling Nisani's train of thought scummy - a lot of posts but little of any intent - seems to have known better than discuss my meaningless intro post but continues to talk about it for several posts instead of simply shutting down the conversation as pointless My vote is currently on Grackaroni. Fine. I nominate Nisani to be shot, hanged, drawn and quartered. After that we can burn him and end it all with a good old-fashioned drowning. I suggest sensibe people get their vote on him stat. Currently looking back into Smurf given the new insights into who he is and whether he could actually do all that crap as town, and then will look into Grackaroni. I was not convinced by the cases and didn't see anything particularly scummy about him, but his continued absense isn't doing him any favours. Deadline is still like 20 hours away, right? So plenty of time. | ||
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On March 27 2013 08:19 Hapahauli wrote: I'm pointing out that your "answer" to marv makes no sense. Your explanation is that you didn't read marv's post before you replied to mine, correct? But that explanation is inconsistent with your behavior in the thread. 7 hours ago, you post this, explicitly responding to marv's logic. Then hours later, you reply to me. Your explanation doesn't make sense. Why does it not make sense? Am I missing something here? My problem with this line of reasoning is: Lets assume for the sake of argument that Cora is town. Cora makes a case on Rayn. Marv responds that he doesn't find Rayn suspicious. Noted down and stored for posterity, but Cora still finds the behaviour suspicious. 5 hours, and about a full page of rayn's filter later (as well as other people chipping in), Hapa responds that he also doesn't find Rayn suspicious for the same reasons (albeit differently worded). Cora admits that he might be tunneling and lays off Rayn. This seems like healthy townie behaviour. The only thing that I see wrong with this whole thing is Cora saying he didn't read Marv's posts on the matter at the time, when he clearly did. This, I agree, could be a really stupid scumslip (no consistent train of thought), but it could also be honest forgetfulness. Cora does not seem like the best lynch at the moment. | ||
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On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote: @Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? I would not consider it fair, no. I also see no reason to retract that claim. Why are you bluefishing? | ||
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On March 27 2013 09:09 strongandbig wrote: Hey older peoples - (actually woah I'm pretty sure that other than Palmar, marv and I have been playing the longest of anyone here wtf. maybe acro? grack doesn't count cause he wasn't really playing this whole time) but anyway older peoples like marv and acro - why is palmar talking so much on day 1? at first I was like wow palmar cares about this game guess he's town, but now i'm just sort of like wtf is going on. do you think he's just super town or what? Despite having been around, I believe this is the first game I am playing with Palmar. I cohosted Hero and he was fairly active as town on D1... at least active enough to make a cool video and cause scum to get lynched. He seems involved enough for the moment and get the impression that he is actively analysing the thread. Even if this latest bluehunting stint is stupid. In case he's scum, he will lose interest in the game, as scum Palmar always does. If he maintains an active interests and keeps directing town, he is most probably town. | ||
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On March 27 2013 09:36 Palmar wrote: That question is so stupid, just like your claim. Since I think you're town, yet you're playing like an idiot I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game since you're clearly not capable of playing well. Well, if you're town I see no reason to start your line of questioning in the first place. In fact, I see no reason to take a first-post VT claim seriously, but go ahead and be dumb about it. | ||
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On March 27 2013 09:56 Keirathi wrote: But....your stance wasn't neutral? You gave a rather detailed explanation of why you thought Palmar was town. That is the opposite of neutral. Argg, why does everything you post feel so defensive and backpeddling-y :o I am starting to agree. This last post just seemed... pointless. It's a very longwinded way of saying "I am reanalysing" and a promise of future activity. But I am left with the nagging question: if Palmar is town, why would a scum Grackaroni bother trying to backpedal his safe town read? And if they're scumbuddies, why has Palmar's only action this game been to bus Grack? Neither makes sense, so this only really makes sense if Grack is town. | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:01 marvellosity wrote: Hi Acro, I need you to explain something for me. This in particular. I played in Fruity and Obvious made a grand total of about 10 posts on Day 1 there. Most of them trolling in a nonsensical fashion and in fact not engaging with people at all. I also found him scummy in LX on Day 1 (OO can verify this). You seem to be asserting the opposite, why? It doesn't matter what you thought at the time. In fact, I didn't even look at your filter. You made a meta case saying OO was town this game because he wasn't playing like in Hydra, where he was scum. So obviously I looked at that game, and at his recent town games. I don't see how he is playing similar to his town games... if anything, his meta has been more similar to his scum game (which isn't saying much, because it is a single game). So yeah, I don't see at all how you have a meta town read on OO. And the fact that you had a scumread on OO because he was trolling on D1 as a townie just seems to reinforce the fact that your meta case was complete crap. So once again, how on earth did that town read on OO come about? | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:17 marvellosity wrote: No, don't turn this around on me when you failed to answer the basic question I put to you. You contended that he was "far more engaged and discussing things with people", and I pointed out that in Fruity he literally made 10 posts and didn't interact with anyone at all. I want you to explain how you came to the conclusion that he was "far more engaged and discussing things with people" in those games that you yourself cited. The impression I got from his filter. You call it trolly. I call it relaxed and engaging with people. The real important part is that his play is WORLDS apart from his play this game... And that you failed to see that despite playing in those games, while I just had a look through the relevant filter and thread sequences. + Show Spoiler + Actively engaging in conversation with his fellow players: On February 26 2013 09:13 ObviousOne wrote: Tell us more how you plan to transparently execute your randomly generated mislynch! On February 26 2013 09:46 ObviousOne wrote: Talk to me about VE. What do you make of his quick in-and-out? I don't do reads on the fly. You want an actual read from me, you'll need more than 45 minutes of a handful of players talking. Who's to say any mafia are even participating yet? Relaxed and joking: On February 26 2013 09:51 ObviousOne wrote: Color me shocked, someone's ready to vote Chezinu before Chezniu even posts. | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:29 prplhz wrote: If anybody else knows why Acrofales is town I'm also interested in their answers. Because my role PM says so!  | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:33 marvellosity wrote: I don't "fail" to see these things Acro, much like I didn't "fail" to see all the things you accused me of in MTG 2 (where in fact I was proved right at every turn) What I really need you to do is not turn this into a suspicion of me (feel free to do this separately from this conversation) but just to answer me straight. Please go and look at Obvious's day 1 in Fruity. He literally did not talk to a single player for the entire cycle. You can verify this by looking at his filter. He only started engaging Night 1 when he was bandied around as a possible vigilante target. You provide a couple of examples from LX, but you can't find a single one from Fruity Day 1, right? So why are you including this game in your read of him as 'engaged' as town? Where are you going with this? I looked at fruity and was like "wait, that's not how he's playing this game", then read LX and saw that he was actively engaging the thread and pretty damned relaxed, which is pretty similar to his later play in Fruity. I will do whatever I like with this info, now explain your damn meta town read on OO. | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:53 ObviousOne wrote: It's called trying to be less bad. You should try it sometime. Yeah. I'm not making a meta case on you. I never said you were scum because your meta doesn't match up. I just said it wasn't a reason to call you town, and THAT is the point I am trying to make. Don't you find it weird Marv has this magic meta town read on you when you are apparently busy changing your meta? | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:57 marvellosity wrote: This isn't the issue. Don't make me resort to caps lock. You said very specifically he was more engaged, whereas I have pointed out he literally engaged with no-one on Day 1 in Fruity. If you can explain to me how he was engaged Day 1 Fruity (hint: you can't) I will drop this immediately. Otherwise I just want to clear up an assertion you made. It's perfectly possible you were just lazy and/or unattentive to timescales or whatever, but I'd quite like to know what is what is what. It was a DIRECT response to your META town read on OO. I am not calling OO scum based on that. I was calling him not-a-town-read. You answered how he was not playing at ALL like his scum meta in Hydra. So I looked at his town games and found that your meta case is bollocks. Fruity was included there because those were the games I looked at and any numbskull can see that OO is not playing a similar game at all. So once again. How did you have a meta read on OO? Now answer the damn question and stop deflecting. | ||
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On March 27 2013 12:02 marvellosity wrote: I love you (i hope you're town). For now I've written Acro off as stupid, which usually means he's town. hurray I'm 10/16 through this game! I don't trust you at all. What happened: You give a read on OO saying he isn't playing scared, which is the main theme of his scum game: On March 27 2013 02:53 marvellosity wrote: Grackeroni is an infinitely better lynch than either rayn or Obvious. Obvious isn't playing scared at all which was the overarching theme of his play in Hydra Mafia (even with VE for support). Acro, I'll check what you said about Nisani when I'm home and have some time later. I said that I thought he was quite timid this game and wasn't sticking his neck out on anything: On March 27 2013 03:01 Acrofales wrote: What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way. Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity? You posted the meta to show how OO is timid when he's scum: On March 27 2013 03:05 marvellosity wrote: Contained in the spoilered case I made in Hydra below are pretty much all of OO's contributions on Day 1 there. It feels pretty different to me. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 07:59 FiveTouch wrote: The interesting thing looking at ObliviousEyes, actually, is that there's a very experienced player combined with a newbie. So we can really catch these guys out looking at Oblivious' posts; VE will be harder to catch. This post *alone* is worth a lynch: This really is the scummiest post in the entire thread (unlike Promato's list. take note of the difference folks). There's just a bunch of summaries of what's happening in the thread. Let's look for hard opinions, shall we? What do we have? - Witty is concerning - unclear on iamperfection - keep an eye on witty - Dirk is interesting - interested to see more Not even a shred of an opinion on anything alignment indicative. It's classic newbie mafia. The only shocking thing is that VE didn't stop him making this atrocity of a post (don't let them wifom that he would have stopped him by the way). Here's the followup: Again to recap: - Golems scummish but townieish - Snarfs is concerning Another followup: - I have made a bulletpoint but I have literally nothing to say as the post says absolutely nothing whatsoever. ObliviousEyes looks very mafia indeed when we look at ObviousOne's contributions. They are all summaries, there's a complete refusal to take stances on anyone. He is the weakling of this team, and he's proving himself as such. Classic mafia play from OO in all regards. And now comes the bait and switch, because any meta read must have two sides. You can't just say "he's not scum because he's not playing similar to his scum meta", unless it is completely obvious that he IS playing similar to his town meta. I looked at OO's town games at that is blatantly not the case. Now instead of retracting the meta read you're like "well, I meant that he wasn't scared", which is what we argued about in the first place. You are pulling an InsertSmurfHere. You cite half a meta case and then do fancy handwaving to make the other half go away. But you're not Yamato and should know better. ##unvote ##vote Marvellosity | ||
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On March 27 2013 12:14 marvellosity wrote: So... you still can't answer the Fruity "engaged" issue? Ok dear. I have answered your question already. Your turn to explain where your magic meta read on OO came from where you left out the other half of OO's meta. | ||
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On March 27 2013 11:47 Acrofales wrote: Where are you going with this? I looked at fruity and was like "wait, that's not how he's playing this game", then read LX and saw that he was actively engaging the thread and pretty damned relaxed, which is pretty similar to his later play in Fruity. I will do whatever I like with this info, now explain your damn meta town read on OO. | ||
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On March 27 2013 12:33 Hapahauli wrote: Acro, I think that part of marv's OO read looks fine. The point is that OO was exceptionally lurky and scared in Hydra Mini. His play is not like that this game. Looking at his game in Fruity, it's a tad more active, and more similar to this game. On March 27 2013 11:01 marvellosity wrote: Hi Acro, I need you to explain something for me. This in particular. I played in Fruity and Obvious made a grand total of about 10 posts on Day 1 there. Most of them trolling in a nonsensical fashion and in fact not engaging with people at all. I also found him scummy in LX on Day 1 (OO can verify this). You seem to be asserting the opposite, why? Like... what the hell am I reading. You are defending Marv based on a meta read that he DIRECTLY contradicts. You can see Marv thinking this game is more similar because OO is more active here, when his OWN impression of Fruity was that OO was an inactive, unengaged troll. Everybody: have you looked at Marv this game? What is his alignment? I really don't want to repeat MTG 2 where I solo-tunnel (or there with DI in a reinforcing hydra chat of tunnelvision) Marv all game. READ HIM AND SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS. I know Hapa and Keir want to lynch prplhz. I don't feel the lynch. Mainly because: On March 27 2013 13:10 Nisani201 wrote: Alright, throwing my vote on prplhz. Not gonna do the ## thing here though because I'm on my tablet. Nisani still scum even if you guys forget that. And this is the scummiest reason to vote for a guy in the thread. Lets look at Nisani so far, right? + Show Spoiler [prplhz null] + On March 26 2013 14:02 Nisani201 wrote: The bold part doesn't mean anything, that's just what he had bolded in his post. The point is that that post is telling people to vote based on what's happening in the meaningless beginning parts of the game. "Contentless" isn't about quantity, it's about how much of his posts have his own opinions on things. Which isn't really in his filter at all. I don't know how prplhz is a primary suspicion in this game, he has 3 posts which all mean nothing. InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work. I don't see anything weird about marv, is there a case on him? Because if there is then I don't remember reading it. And then: + Show Spoiler [lets vote for him] + On March 27 2013 12:41 Nisani201 wrote: I don't understand why we're still taking about this meta stuff. Just because OO’s play style is different in this game than another doesn't make him scum. In fact, it means absolutely nothing. I agree that prplhz has been flying under the radar and he could be scum. I want to hear other's thoughts on it though. On March 27 2013 13:10 Nisani201 wrote: Alright, throwing my vote on prplhz. Not gonna do the ## thing here though because I'm on my tablet. Where's the justification? It is PURELY reactionary to On March 27 2013 12:58 Keirathi wrote: P.S: @Nisani: Who do you want to lynch? Who's the flavour of the page? Prplhz is. Pressure on Nisani to do anything disappeared, and Nisani could crawl back into his scumQT. Also, this: On March 27 2013 14:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why would you encourage pressure against a guy you should think is town? Added to your general "lack-of-giving-a-shit" and multiple soft-pushes of players in the thread, u scum brah. reads like confirmation bias if I ever saw it. The prplhz bit isn't encouraging pressure against Palmar, it's saying he saw an inconsistency in Nisani's play and wanted that explained. Eh, I don't know why I am defending prplhz. I looked over his filter and everything said about him is right. Just Nisani is even scummier and it looks highly unlikely they're both scum. In completely unrelated news. WTF is that kill on Grack in the middle of nowhere? On March 27 2013 20:26 Palmar wrote: Strange the shot didn't get claimed huh? I'd imagine both factions would want to take credit for the kill, seeing as I was putting pressure on Grack. Since no one claimed the shot I'm going to assume it's a scum-shot. I don't think any townie would be this stupid, and there is a clear scum motivation to shooting Grack. The first line seems very insincere. He wants to say it's strange, but isn't too sure of himself. This seems completely uncharacteristic for Palmar. Palmar, did you shoot Grack? Out of everybody in the thread, you seem to be the only townie with both the scumspicion and the ego to just shoot Grack out of nowhere on D1. If it's a scum shot, why the hell shoot Grack, when they could take out some high-profile player? Grack was a borderline lurker with a good chance of getting lynched. Why shoot him? I honestly see NO scum motivation for wasting an anonymous dayvig shot on Grack. | ||
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On March 27 2013 21:36 Dandel Ion wrote: Alternatively, I could also lynch snb with pleasure. I'm fine with prpl too. No longer think Marv is scum? Explain. | ||
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On March 27 2013 21:55 Dandel Ion wrote: It's still the truth that trying to lynch marv d1 is a futile effort because of the fanboy hordes. Not much changed there. As I already said, I won't be around the ~5 hours leading up to the lynch, so even if I wanted to push him, I couldn't. Whatcha thinking bout snb? I think that SnB qualified his meta quite well: On March 26 2013 23:34 strongandbig wrote: So oats I'm glad you think I'm smart. I'm pretty good at atomic physics, it's true. Seven years ago I also got 36/36 on the ACT and 1600 on the real part of the SAT (fucking writing section). So okay suppose I'm smart. Do you really think that means I can't make a bad case? Or that I can't think a case is good for reasons that other people disagree with? If you really want me to I can point you to past games where I've made cases that everyone else said were bad. I was town in those games. When I'm sum I don't make bad cases, I just don't make cases. Do you really think I was settin up to "try to push a prplhz lynch" singlehandedly, in a game with people who have much more "mafia rep" than I do, and who have much more time to put in than I have? That doesn't sound like a "smart" thing to do. (Pro tip if you look in my filter you can even find out what I was actually doing and why! Treasure hunt!) While knowing his meta can mean he is changing his meta, as scum he has always been completely disengaged (except WLIIA where he played a pretty damned good scum game). So far I'm not getting that feeling from his filter. Also regarding Smurf: I have no fucking clue what to say about Smurf at the moment. I thought his case on you was terrible, and it could be terrible scummy. However, he has continued to prove that he has no fucking clue on how to play this game. Does that make him scum? I don't know. Hopefully I'll figure it out soon, but for the moment: et tu, brute Fine, we'll lynch Nisani today and worry about Marv tomorrow. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Nisani90210 | ||
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On March 27 2013 21:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv was questioning your meta read on OO from fruity and LX Marv saw uninterested, scummy looking OO from Fruity and LX You didnt. He wanted to know where you are coming from, because he didnt see what you saw on day 1 of those games. 1. That's not what I asked. 2. You're not who I asked. 3. You haven't said what you think of Marv. WHY THE FUCK DID YOU BOTHER MAKING THIS POST? | ||
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Fuck this. Nisani is scum. We lynch him, then worry about other people. | ||
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On March 27 2013 22:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Sorry refreshed page lost everything. I didnt answer your question. The reason why I made that post was because you seem to be struggling with marv's question on how you saw a different OO from those games. What provoked this response? Did you get so angry reading my post that you couldnt control your fingers? Marv is probably town. Mainly to get your opinion on Marv, and to ensure that Hapa doesn't think he can just skip the question because you answered it for him. Can you elaborate on your town read on Marv? | ||
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On March 27 2013 23:03 Oatsmaster wrote: I meant to say MTG where he hydra'ed there :/ But as far as I can remember, he was useless day 1 in hydra. And in chrono trigger. And in duel. So yeah town. This logic. It hurts. And I was just starting to think you were town, when you show this complete lack of critical thinking. Is there anything short of outright claiming scum that could cause you to NOT have a town read on Marv? Marv is active, scumhunting and pushing his reads: he must be town (this one I agree with) Marv is passive and useless: he must be town. The mind boggles. | ||
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On March 28 2013 00:40 prplhz wrote: I seriously don't get anything about this Nisani201 case other than marvellosity's argument which I don't really think is too strong. His play otherwise doesn't really show anything. Or maybe it does and I don't see it. I mean we can lynch him but I don't see why he should be scum. Gonna read into someone else. On March 28 2013 00:43 prplhz wrote: Okay maybe Nisani201 is scum. I don't disagree with your conclusion (obviously), but what happened in those three minutes to change your mind? | ||
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On March 28 2013 00:27 cDgCorazon wrote: No, I said it doesn't make sense that it would be a town shot and no one claimed. Do you want to do some thinking for yourself, or will I have to do it for you? Okay. One more thing. If scum wanted Palmar dead, why create an elaborate plot to LYNCH Palmar by lynching some random lurker that Palmar had a scumread on, rather than just outright shoot him in the face? It makes NO sense. | ||
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You give absolutely atrocious meta reasons for Nisani being town, by showing how he is playing the same as his town games. Guess what, he is playing the same style as his scum games too, because that's the way he rolls. What I did was show how his play was anti-town... not similar to how he plays as scum, but actually anti-town. THAT is why Nisani is scum this game, not some horrid meta argument. You then use your absolutely terrible confirmation bias to say that because Nisani is town, Sinani is scum, because he didn't see the meta argument. Fucking /facepalm. So yeah. Nisani is scum. Lynch him. Don't care about the rest. | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:20 Palmar wrote: I'm going to support Sinani, Cora, reyn lynches I think. Since the last 2 are not going to happen I'm with hapa on the sinani wagon. I don't think nisani201 will flip scum. ##Vote sinani206 Why the town read on Nisani? | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:27 Hapahauli wrote: I kinda want to lynch Oats for having completely incoherent suspicions really. So you want to lynch Oats for playing like Oats. :/ | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:34 Hapahauli wrote: Touche. Idunno I'm just not satisfied by any of this right now. Just sheep me and all will be well. | ||
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On March 28 2013 06:40 ObviousOne wrote: Does this not read to you as he's still suspicious of Cora There's no reason, NONE, right now, if you've read the thread, to worry about Cora. Zero. Well, until one of the masons flips there is always the chance they are 2 parts of a scumteam. But if you are trying to say that there is no reason ATM to want to lynch him at all, then I agree. | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:01 Hapahauli wrote: Anyway atleast we have a flip to parse things over. And by that I mean that Yamato should be lynched tomorrow. I agree with this. | ||
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3 particular things make him scum: 1. On March 26 2013 12:37 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Is he an idiot as town, too? From your filter, that is what I surmise is your opinion of him already. If that's the case, I guess you're content to let him lurk away the rest of day 1 as he intends? Or...? If Smurf is Yamato, he has played at least 2 games with a town DI (British 1 and Personality 2) and thus cannot simply claim ignorance of how DI plays as town. Even if he can be forgiven the remarkable oversight of not looking at DI's townplay, his excuse of ignorance here is a lie. 2. His scumreads: All 3 of his scumreads throughout the game:Grackaroni, Cora and Nisani. I painted Cora green, because I doubt this is a power play by the scumteam to claim mason. However, most strikingly, look how easily he jumps onto the Nisani is scum wagon. He never even mentions Nisani as a scumread until his completely irrational defense of prplhz (see point 3), when this suddenly happens: + Show Spoiler [prplhz town] + On March 27 2013 15:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote: It's quite easy. Read yamato's analysis of prplhz's meta from Nomination. When you look at his filter from LIX, it is blatantly antagonistic with town and completely uninvolved. Do these posts read trollish to you? Here he's clearly following a line of thought with a few people. While his interaction is minimal, it is far from being distant. This does not read like the mafia prplhz I know. What concerns me about all this is how lazy you are with this push on prplhz. I really think you don't know him well if you think low activity = scum in his case. What is MOST concerning, however, is how easily Nisani jumps in with you. Observe: Two posts, barely mentions prplhz, and he's on the wagon. Regardless of prplhz's alignment, this looks terrible. He's even less concerned with figuring out the game than prplhz appears to be. So... the MOST concerting part of the prplhz case is how easily Nisani jumps on the wagon. So suddenly Nisani has been bombarded to scum, as part of the whole prplhz = town crusade. From that point onwards he never even questions anything else and just blindly wants to lynch Nisani. 3. Irrational defense of prlhz. I would quote posts, but it shat up the thread for about 3 pages. I don't even think this says anything about prplhz's alignment. I can see a scum doing this for a townie (defend the innocent for townie points, when no scumbuddy is in danger of being lynched) or a scumbuddy (given that the alternative at the time was my push on Nisani, which he promptly sheeped he could have been defending his buddy), but the whole thing feels like Smurf had made up his mind before even starting to post on what prplhz's alignment was and was going to defend that stance to the death. And while some of the points he made make sense, when I looked at prplhz's filter at the time, it just read like a scum filter, so it's the complete lack of DOUBT about the alignment that strikes me. That is not the critical mindset of a townie. TLDR: lied to excuse his shoddy case, no critical mindset when analysing players and has only wanted to lynch townies. Verdict: scum. Now lets move onto everybody else. | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:07 cDgCorazon wrote: I also caught half of the scum team in Personality. If you can't remember that. While I don't want to throw oil on the fire, both you and Vivax keep priding yourselves of that, when NONE of the scumteam felt threatened by you at all at any point. When you have 0 credibility with town because you post like an irate chipmunk, you cannot actually CATCH scum, regardless of how good your reads are. This game I feel you're doing a far better job, btw. You just have to learn to focus and concentrate on convincing others of your reads, rather than pointlessly arguing with your scumspect, which leads to tunneling and nobody taking you seriously. | ||
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On March 28 2013 07:27 marvellosity wrote: I'm also probably off until tomorrow. Not sure when I'm going to have time to work on the game properly because I have a chess thingy tomorrow evening. There's too many people I'm leaning town on at the moment, which is partly down to the fact that 2 of my 3 orange reads have flipped/claimed. I don't understand how you have too many town reads in this game. I literally have 3 town reads I have any confidence in, and another 3 players I am willing to consider town, because I don't think they play like this as scum. That leaves you, Sinani, raynpelikoneet, prplhz, SnB, Smurf and OO in the null to scum range. I am really dying to know how you have any kind of confident town range on them. | ||
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I still have no clue what Nisani was thinking when he made the case or how he could say that my initial posts were contributions while simultaneously stating the direct contradiction of their content, but it's water under the bridge: I was clearly wrong and if I play with Nisani again I will take this into account. The mere fact that YOU and quite a few other people agreed with me on it should indicate that I was clearly not stupid to think this way about the post, so calling it a bad OMGUS case is wrong. As for why Nisani (and not someone else)? Because I thought he was scum. The fact that you even ask this question seems to indicate you have presupposed a scum motive for me making a case and are then asking why Acro, as scum, is making a case against Nisani of all possible targets. There is no answer, because I'm not scum. I was just wrong. *Could I have voted for other "targets" of opportunity at the time?" --- I'm still not scum, so there are no targets of opportunity, just people I suspect are scum and people who I think are town. *Was it a solitary tunnel? No. I think that is clear from my filter. I'll let others be the judge of whether I played a good game or not, but I don't think I was stuck in a rut where I overanalysed Nisani and never considered anybody else. But by and large, Nisani looked scummiest to me. Also, you won't find scum by trying to ask why a lynch was pushed. You're far better off trying to figure out who had no decent reasons to be on it, but got the townie lynched anyway. People like Smurf, who jumped on halfway through with a shoddy reason. I am going to spend the rest of the day looking at the people in my null-scum list who I haven't properly analyzed yet. Quite a few of them had really dodgy reasons for hopping wagons. Finally, can future vote tallies please be in the order of voting, rather than seemingly randomized? It's important to know who voted early, who hammered, and what votes in the middle were safe and which caused momentum swings. So here is the actual votecount: + Show Spoiler + prplhz: raynpelikoneet: marvellosity: ObviousOne: Grackaroni: Palmar: Keirathi: Dandel Ion: Acrofales: Nisani201 (13): Strongandbig: InsertSmurfHere (1): Dandel Ion, cDgCorazon: Sinani206 (1): Everybody after Keirathi and ObviousOne is basically just hopping on "for consolidation" and their votes should be taken with a grain of salt. The interesting votes that I feel were cast without any real motivation are prplhz, Cora, Smurf and rayn. Out of these I find Cora's to flow the most naturally: he mentions him a few times as scummy and then decides pushing his own read is unfeasible and hops on the Nisani wagon. Prplhz is half-on half-off the wagon the entire time: he ninja-votes, he says he doesn't see what makes Nisani scum, then says Nisani is probably scum and then says Nisani's meta is unreadable and he might be town. And none of that seems well reasoned through. It seems more like a sheep vote than anything else, which is strange, because he'd be sheeping me and he seems to think I am scum. Smurf I have discussed already. I think he's scum, so that right there is the justification for him being on the wagon. Rayn is also a weird vote: he mentions Nisani quite a few times in a list of people he feels are scummy, but never really does anything about it until he feels he has to consolidate (way earlier than he actually has to). He then hops onto the Keirathi wagon, once again to consolidate: this time he hops OFF the leading wagon in order to consolidate, which just increases the chance of a no-lynch. And then jumps back onto Nisani. Given both Nisani is town and Keir probable town, this feels like "as long as a townie gets lynched, I'm cool with it" votes. Marv deserves a special mention, because he was hard on the Nisani wagon, then starts up a counterwagon on Keirathi and then hops back onto Nisani when Keirathi claims mason. But this deserves more extensive analysis... have to decide whether this was town Marv being indecisive or scum Marv screwing around with the lynch. | ||
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Also, I remember your OO case and you explicitly asked me about it. I admit that it was long and I was busy at work, so I didn't give it the attention it deserved at the time. Mainly because my own read on him at the time was null with some town tells. Since then I've been rereading him. Do you still think he's scum? OO gets an A for effort, but it seems misdirected. He spends a long time analysing trivialities. I'm still falling on the side of misguided townie effort, but I agree with you that some of the words he uses seem weird from a town mindset, so I am not fully convinced in my read. Why do you think he's scum? As for your question: if scum thinks they can justify switching wagons, and the wagon is gaining speed fast, then sure, why not switch? As for Keirathi not being confirmed: you're right, but I am choosing to believe he's town. If he's scum then this point is clearly moot, but looking over Cora's filter in particular gives me quite a lot of confidence that they're town. | ||
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On March 29 2013 01:01 prplhz wrote: Because the only person who has read as much into my posts as InsertSmurfHere is me. I don't care that he was right when no one else was as long as he was right for the right reasons. Would you really have felt better about InsertSmurfHere if he had just jumped on me after Haparathi and Keihauli did? The problem I have is this: I look at the information I had available to me at the time and my read on you, which was null leaning to scummy. I know that you tend to look scummy to me on D1, so I didn't automatically want to lynch you, but I definitely didn't have a town read on you. Other people seemed to reach similar conclusions, ranging on the scum to null side of the scumometer. In comes Yamato, champion of the underdefended to give you a town read based on meta. I still don't know whether he is right or wrong, you are soft-claiming town here and that Yamato read you completely accurately. That is great. Lets analyse both cases: prplhz is town and Yamato is correct. However, is Yamato the kind of player perspicacious enough to correctly read you using meta alone, or is he using the prior knowledge, given by his scum role PM to "guide" his correct meta read and cherry pick the gems out of the rough? Well, on the one hand we have Hapa, Keirathi, myself and probably some other people all having doubts about prplhz. On the other we have Yamato. So is Yamato better at reading you than Hapa, Keir and most everybody else? I don't think I believe that (you can call it hubris if you like, but I call it common sense) other case: prplhz is scum and Yamato is wrong. In this case, Yamato made a giant error as town and was adamantly defending you based on meta. This is the least likely scenario out of all 4 possible combinations, so lets ignore it. Yamato being scum and cherry picking your meta to give you a town read and you now agreeing with him is plausible. So regardless of prplhz's actual alginment, the most likely explanation for yamato's behaviour is that he is scum. And him picking the right bits out of your meta is guided by FIRST assigning you to be town and THEN looking at your meta, which makes a case a LOT easier to make. For the record, I have a slight town read on prplhz based on reading his defense and late D1 activity. | ||
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On March 29 2013 01:05 prplhz wrote: I'm saying that the reason he was so adamant is because: He was right and for the right reasons. He takes a certain pride in being correct about me specifically. That's perfectly alright for me. Why does yamato have such an accurate read on you specifically? Has he played with you a more than average amount? Was he the first to catch you as scum and defend you as town in previous games? Note: I don't know the answers, I presume you can help you. | ||
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On March 29 2013 00:11 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Hey Acro, now that you're here, and I'm here, I want to talk to you about some things that I don't like in your "case" on me. This is bullshit, and quite obviously evidence that you're not reading my filter. I specifically mentioned that I have not played with Dandel from the very beginning of the game, and that my experience with town Dandel is not that he's an idiot. If you looked into either of those games, you would realize that he was a replacement in both, and a troll in neither. Given this, how do you think that I'm lying? This is bullshit. By this metric, I could easily call Hapa or Palmar mafia, but I don't because it's fucking stupid. You're not this bad. Except that Hapa has played about the towniest game out of anybody in the thread and I can't match the way Palmar is playing with the disinterested trolly Palmar when he's scum. Also, Hapa DIDN'T want to lynch Nisani, so why is he in this list. Rather, Marv should be there, and I have him on my scumdar. Yes, it was concerning. I openly questioned Hapa's motives with the prplhz thing, because I don't see how one who had done his research could see prplhz as mafia. But I give Hapa slack, because he's been wrong before. However, I won't give Nisani slack, even now as confirmed town, for mindlessly sheeping on the wagon without a second thought. That SEEMS to be what you're accusing me of, even though it wasn't, yet you can't seem to understand why I found it scummy from Nisani? Bullshit. But he came out of nowhere. You suddenly bombarded him to your primary scumread. You didn't question him about it, you just instantly bombarded him to scum for ninjavoting. It feels like it was all a ploy to give extra weight to your whole prplhz defense thing, which still makes no sense. Total bullshit. "It just read like a scum filter"? What kind of "critical mindset" is that? You don't even bother to address the meta point that you say "make sense", you just blow them off as nothing, when in reality, THAT WAS THE WHOLE ARGUMENT. Yes, it shat up the thread. No, it gave me ZERO town cred, and how would it anyway? Most of town was null or against prplhz at that point, so who is giving me town cred for it besides prplhz, and how much is that town cred even worth? Really, this is pathetic. What's even more pathetic is that these are the arguments that people have against me, and that they're all based upon ridiculous assumptions like the ones you've made here. Addressed in full in my previous post. But really, I want to talk about you, Acro, because this case is just a little too perfectly timed. What about the Nisani flip makes you any more ready to call me mafia than before? Why didn't you bring this up before the lynch, when it was all still relevant? Or are you just using the pathetically stupid and lazy idea that my being on Nisani's wagon is evidence of me being mafia? Because if that's the case, THERE ARE TWELVE OTHER PEOPLE who voted him with me, you included, and most of them after me. One such person is Marv, but I'll get to him when I'm done with you. The timing is quite obvious: my prime scumspect was lynched and flipped town, so I was obviously wrong and had to reread filters. I started with yours, because you had been floating around my scumdar the whole game. I simply had to reread it to realize why you were scum. Also, your vote on Nisani was pretty terrible. I trust that out of the 12 other people, all of your scumbuddies are there too, but not all votes are equal and yours sticks out as particularly scummy. You hadn't mentioned him before, you never pressured him, or pushed him afterwards, you just voted and then continued your prplhz is town diatribe. You question people about Nisani and say you want to "convince" them, but not once do I see anything ever again that convinces anybody about anything. Never once do I get the feeling you even really thought about Nisani, rather than just deciding he was scum at a time it was convenient for you. | ||
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On March 29 2013 02:10 Hapahauli wrote: Can you talk about your town-read on Acro a bit? I'm giving him some activity points no doubt, but I haven't read any of his scumgames. I've played a fair bit of scum. The most recent is probably the most relevant (Personality 2), but LVI is probably also fairly representative, although it was before quite a long streak of town games, in which I think my play generally improved. | ||
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On March 29 2013 02:15 marvellosity wrote: EBWOP *stupid, sustained argument with me Talking about that... what do you think of OO? | ||
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My main problems with OO are: 1. His inconsistent scumhunting. He just sort of mentions people in passing, without following up on anything except really Grack.
I currently have no clue who he thinks is scum. He made quite a big case on me, but I'm not even sure he's calling me scum. They all seem very tenuous. The only person he has taken a conclusive stand on was Grack. Everything else is really really vague as if he's afraid of having an opinion. This insecurity is further evidenced by the number of times that he asks people to tell him what they think about his stuff. The problem is that I don't know OO at all well. I read his meta and none of the games he played seem at all similar. I don't get the same insecure feeling from his town games at all, but his scum game has a different feel too. 2. Odd phrases that shouldn't be in a townies vocabulary: we've talked about "planting the seed" which makes it seem like OO was more concerned with looking like he was consistent in his reads than actually getting his read out there. However, we can add the whole thing where he talks about "targets of opportunity" + Show Spoiler + On March 28 2013 20:56 ObviousOne wrote: K I have a giant notepad document filled with quotes and I'm not going to paste them here as is so I'll try to distill some information from it. Notable mentions of Nisani (chronologically if I copy/pasted correctly) + Show Spoiler [Hapa] + On March 26 2013 12:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Nisani Where'd ya go? You offered us two pointless comments then dropped out of the thread: What are your thoughts on some of the suspicions in the thread so far? Particularly on Grack and prplhz? + Show Spoiler [Acro familiarity with Nisani's p…] + On March 26 2013 12:20 Acrofales wrote: Nisani is lurking and Dandel is spamming. Amazing. Who woulda thunk that would happen. + Show Spoiler [Acro votes] + On March 26 2013 14:08 Acrofales wrote: You are terrible. I made a lot of sense in the beginning of the game. My VERY FIRST serious post was my opinion on OO's claim. The rest of my filter has my opinion on DI, prplhz and Marv. Off the top of my head. Probably anything else that has been discussed in the thread too. This game gonna be easy. Lynch the liar! ##vote Nisani201 + Show Spoiler [Acro] + On March 27 2013 02:38 Acrofales wrote: Some updates. I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is. Raynpelikoneet does not look particularly scummy to me. There are some posts I don't like: + Show Spoiler [this one] + On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. the way he phrased the initial question, he inherently claimed he wasn't actually very serious. A vague answer that feels like it's part of a larger backpedal regarding prplhz. However, having a very serious vote a few hours into D1 is an oxymoron. + Show Spoiler [and this one] + On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. However, neither of these are particularly concerning... and while his case on OO was somewhat OMGUS, I think he picked on some good points and OO's case really was just a bad association case based on unflipped players. Mostly, however, I like that he does not seem concerned to speak his mind or share his reads, and I don't get the feeling that he is just throwing suspicion around to see where it sticks. In closing: he's not a scumspect at the moment. I'm not really liking what I see in Cora's filter. In particular this post: came at a time when I was NOT talking about OO at all (except to answer Oats' stupid question). In fact, I only directly talk about OO in two posts, the rest is all using it as a springboard to analyse OTHER players' reactions to it. At the time, I had specifically singled out two reactions as feeling off: Nisani's and Cora's own. Trying to flip it back just reaks of panicked OMGUS. However, given how Cora was a rather easy mislynch in Personality 2, I am hesitant to just outright call him scum for this behaviour. While I don't agree with his read on Rayn, his posts about it are reasonable and he seems forthcoming with his opinion. My main scumspect is still Nisani. His case was a pack of lies and he has disappeared from the thread again. Lynch him. Here is his case on me: My first few posts were where I gave my opinion about OO's claim. How can those be my most sensible posts when he has clearly not even read them properly?! It's because he is scum and needed to contribute, so jumped on something without thinking it through, that's why. ##revote Nisani201 for emphasis. + Show Spoiler [Obvious] + On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote: Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster. Is Oats town or scum to you? + Show Spoiler [Grackaroni] + On March 27 2013 04:27 Grackaroni wrote: lol how many people have given multiple scum reads so far. I find it ridiculous that I'm still some major suspect because I made 3 posts without stances at the start of the game. I think Nisani and Sinani are both people to look into and both could be scum as well. Nisani wrote a case about acro and seemed to ignore all of the other things that Acro has done in the thread and just said he's too focused on you not reading your role pm. Once again I don't like Sinani's original contribution and he hasn't added anything since then. + Show Spoiler [Sinani] + On March 27 2013 04:32 sinani206 wrote: How can you say such a huge blanket statement. It's day 1, what evidence do you have that Smurf is for sure town? + Show Spoiler [Hapa again] + On March 27 2013 06:09 Hapahauli wrote: Can you outline the reasons for Acro being scum? All I see is an active townie. He's contributed a ton this game. It seemed like you were backing off Acro last night too... ... so I'm not sure how you're so confident in your read. + Show Spoiler [More hapa] + On March 27 2013 06:58 Hapahauli wrote: @ Nisani Why do you "want to believe" that Palmar is scum? If you think he's scum, then go after him. Furthermore, I don't understand why you think the Grack case is bad. These are your stated reasons: ...and they're pretty inadequate. I especially don't understand the bolded segment. The Grack case is primarily based on precisely that - that his reactions are completely objective, ungenuine, and purposeless in the context of the thread. How are his reactions not scummy? Furthermore, what in his filter to you suggests that he's town? + Show Spoiler [Acro] + On March 27 2013 07:10 Acrofales wrote: Fine. I nominate Nisani to be shot, hanged, drawn and quartered. After that we can burn him and end it all with a good old-fashioned drowning. I suggest sensibe people get their vote on him stat. Currently looking back into Smurf given the new insights into who he is and whether he could actually do all that crap as town, and then will look into Grackaroni. I was not convinced by the cases and didn't see anything particularly scummy about him, but his continued absense isn't doing him any favours. Deadline is still like 20 hours away, right? So plenty of time. + Show Spoiler [Sinani] + On March 27 2013 15:54 sinani206 wrote: OK, Nisani is scum. He's been using soft reads all game to make it look like he's contributing, saying people "look" or "feel" some way or another. He uses words like "possible" and "likely", phrases like "not really." Asking others useless questions to fill up his posts. Nisani is not acting as a townie should ask. He is hesitant and incomplete in his "analysis" and has been trying to deter discussion (here and here). Not to mention voting prplhz with no reasoning and only 2 sentences mentioning him, asking for a vote count before voting. Nisani's play is not townlike. There are no third parties. Therefore he is scum. So just looking at the list of names there, a few of them come up several times. Let's look at their reasons for mentioning Nisani. Hapa filter - Unsatisfied with Nisani's contributions in the early game - Did not like Nisani's lack of confidence his scum read on Acro - More about contribution / Nisani's wanting to believe that Palmar is scum Hapa's interactions with Nisani look town motivated to me. He looks like the first to bring up anything negative towards Nisani. Acro filter - Mentions Nisani is lurking (and doesn't mention if it's suspicious) - Rather blatant OMGUS vote on Nisani - Accusation that Nisani is feigning contribution, emphasizes vote - Brings up Nisani again after my call to start the consolidation process Acro's intentions are rather clear. They also seem to match Sinani's below. Why Nisani in particular? Was it because Nisani was talking about him being scummy? That's what it looks like to me but I might be wrong, I'm getting tired trying to finish this before I sleep. Sinani filter - Attacks Nisani for Nisani's defense of ISH - Claims Nisani has given nothing but soft-reads and feigned contribution More attacks for feigning contribution, lines up with Acro's read. Okay, so Nisani in retrospect was clearly making himself an easy target, and was not quite up to the task of providing us with multiple reads. He was under attack directly or indirectly by several people from nearly the beginning of the game based on his comments regarding the conversation about my Role PM post. I didn't see any point at which anyone was like "well, he looks like a tilted town" or anything like that in my re-read but I may have missed it. One of the possible reasons I can see this being the case is that he seems to have been brought to attention by Hapa. For the most part I've had a town read on Hapa the whole game and I'm sure I'm not the only one so I can see how it would lend itself to becoming part of "thread sentiment." The further tunneling by Acro kept Nisani on the back foot. Even I had a few words in regarding the situation (agreeing with Acro's case). Overall, the lynch happened rather easily, but I think everyone shares the blame on that. Nisani's play did not look like strong town play. We didn't question whether or not he seemed capable of coming up with something new under pressure. The most questionable candidate of the three people who addressed Nisani is Acro because it essentially boils down to OMGUS. Acro insisted multiple times that Nisani was scum. But that could just be Acro being Acro, I don't know him. I'm just looking at thread action here. Follow up questions that I really hope someone else will take a look at: - Were these tunnels / solitary reads / the only prudent cases made the the above players or were they actively seeking out more than one target for Day 1? - What other "targets of opportunity" did these players pass up in favor of Nisani? Was there any motivation to NOT vote for certain players who were exhibiting similar characteristics? (i.e. prplhz) - Feel free to add your own thoughts... The focus just seems really strange in his questions. Why is he worried about "other targets of opportunity"? What possible town motivation is there for asking this question in the first place? It is a guaranteed WIFOM generator and utterly pointless, but moreover, this whole post shows that OO has spent a fair bit of time thinking about what juicy lynchbait targets could have been lynched instead of Nisani (or more malevolently: can be lynched now that Nisani is dead). This is not scumhunting, in fact it is the direct opposite of actual scumhunting, and not a townie mindset at all. 3. Remarkable lack of Marv in the list of "remarkable events surrounding Nisani". For some reason he includes Hapa's posts about Nisani, but skips Marv, who definitely was on the Nisani wagon early, until he derailed it himself. Only I pushed it harder (and at the end Sinani) and Hapa never pushed it at all. It seems like a rather bad summary of the thread events. But this is a pretty minor point, because I don't really see a scum motivation for doing this except through rather painful association cases. Nevertheless, I don't see only bad things in OO's filter: 1. Sheer activity. In Hydra, he and VE combined managed to post 3 pages between the two of them before they were killed. Here OO has 5 pages of filter all by himself. 2. Effort. Some of the posts, including the one I quoted with the "targets of opportunity" indicate a real effort, even if it is misguided. The points against me were coherent, albeit wrong, and I can see a townie going through the thread and picking up on these things. I don't think OO is a very good lynch for tomorrow, because Smurf is surer scum, but I am far from convinced that OO ISN'T scum. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:00 Hapahauli wrote: And if you have a role, I suggest you claim it. Why the hell are you telling someone to claim AT NIGHT? | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:18 cDgCorazon wrote: Yamato you are digging such a hole for yourself here. Basically you are tunneling me and Kei is scum "by proxy". It's not hard to see what you're doing here. You still haven't given any reason that Kei is scum. I'd love to hear an actual one. If he was in fact doing this, I would be pretty surprised if he was scum. Scum is generally not dumb enough to tunnel what are generally accepted as confirmed townies. However, he's not doing that, so this point is moot. | ||
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On March 29 2013 04:26 Hapahauli wrote: It's not like he's going to get shot by mafia. Lets play this game: we're wrong and you got him to claim DT or medic. Mafia knows he's not scum, so even if he doesn't get killed (which I agree seems unlikely even if he's town), he probably gets roleblocked. And what did you gain? Fuck all. Claiming at night is retarded. | ||
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On March 29 2013 05:14 strongandbig wrote: I took a look at acro's filter, I don't have too strong of a read on him but I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum. (1) he threw his vote around at the start of the game but most of his filter just feels more "focused" than I would expect. One guy at a time, really pushing. This is what I would expect out of either a town-organizer type or a bad-townie who thought he caught a scum slip, but acro doesn't fit either of these models. This is also what I would expect out of a decent scummer. (2) the reasoning for voting nisani was scummy as fuck - "ignore your terrible meta arguments, he's being anti town!" There's nothing actual scum love more than Ace's patented "you're hurting town" lynch. (3) he keeps using the word "Scumspect", I want to cut a hole in that word's flesh and dildo it. (4) one of his three big bullet points on why ish is scum is that his reads have been wrong. again, super scummy logic. On the other hand, there is some stuff I like in his filter too. Specifically, i feel like his suspicions on marv made sense, as did the fact that he backed off them a little bit when marv got more involved, and the fact that he still hasn't backed all the way off, as he well shouldn't. I'm used to you being biased against me, but I'm not used to you being this bad at it. 1) Nonsense. 2) The meta was rubbish. You should know, you've played with Nisani. He has a very similar style as both scum and as town, so trying to give him townie points for style is rubbish. That Hapa was right in hindsight doesn't change the fact that the meta was rubbish. So that leaves "what have you done and why have you done it this game?" which I thought was scum motivated. 3) My scumspects are scumspicious. 4) /facepalm. You didn't even read that bit did you? The main point of that bullet was his dodgy reasoning for voting for Nisani. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:05 Hapahauli wrote: Also, why do you think SnB is town? This feels a lot like his mafia-game in Chrono Trigger, where he couldn't sustain his activity past early D1. My problem with calling SnB scum outright is that I don't see that much difference between here and Personality. He was slightly more confident in his reads, but SnB is never particularly active on D1. If he starts giving good insights from now onwards, then he's probably town. If he keeps doing nothing except calling Drazerk and me scum, then he's scum. When he's scum he is eternally butthurt over HRM. When he's town he eventually gets over it. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:19 ObviousOne wrote: It's objectively bad in hindsight. I wanted to lynch Grack. He was town. I wanted to lynch Rayn. I've since changed my mind. I wanted to lynch Kei. Mason claim lends itself to being town. I've tunneled poor targets for poor reasons all of D1. I call it bad because it was wrong and especially when I disregarded Kei's request to talk it out. So who do you want to lynch now? As I said earlier. I have no clue who you think is scum... and I don't like that at all. | ||
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1. He was cagey on the OO claim. He didn't just have an opinion, but was very careful, as if he didn't want to stick his neck out. 2. No reads. He has given his opinion of Nisani. Other than that? Nothing. I don't even know what he thought of OO with the lack of a role PM. A minor blurb about prplhz. I had a quick look at Sinani's town meta (think I only ever played with him as scum) and he seems more useful. I agree that he is more active than his usual scumgame, but a 2 page filter is not exactly the paragon of an active townie. Sinani, who do you want to lynch, why? Why have you not said anything at all about anybody except Nisani. As an added bonus, Nisani thought he was scum at the end, and they have a long history together. It might have been an OMGUS and I have to save myself, but he did give a scumread on Sinani. | ||
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I don't know why you're surprised at Palmar being town, while not doing much, he was clearly not playing like he does as scum. Gonna go over his filter, but he didn't leave any reads I don't think. So... we lynch Smurf and Sinani! ##vote Smurf ##vote Sinani | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:34 ObviousOne wrote: That's pretty clever. Actually thinking about how that situation applies to me, it's a good bet to hedge that I'll survive to end-game if I don't get lynched D1. Look at my town record: 1st newbie game: lynched d1 as town 2nd newbie game: NK night 4 3rd newbie game: win at endgame 4th normal game: lynched d1 as town (marv was in on that one and later admitted he did it for the lulz) 6th normal game: win at endgame (d2 in this case) 7th normal game: died by 3p N4 A scum Marv would know if I'm town. It's a crazy and unpredictable move unless someone was aware of it and brought it up in the thread. Do you think he's using the same trick twice? Firstly, it's not crazy and unpredictable. It happens all the time that a scummer decides to be the champion of the lynchbait. The knight in shining armor who proves his reads are good and he can be sheeped for the rest of the game because look how he knew ScrubX was town. Secondly, I am far from sure you're town, so if it's scum-Marv, he could just be defending his scumbuddy. In closing, Marv's whole OO is town, just look at <META>, is still one of the funkier plays this game and while I've backed off calling Marv sure scum over it, I don't see any conceivable way you can call it townie. | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:45 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, someone walk me through why Sinani is so scummy that he should bet he lynch today. I'm just not seeing it. Like I said in my post, I have him pretty firmly in the null category. Biggest thing to me is that he seems extra concerned about his survival, but I don't think that is strictly 100% a mafia trait, it's just more likely to be mafia than town. I don't see what makes him the best second target for the day at all. On March 29 2013 06:56 Acrofales wrote: I have time for one more filter and picked Sinani. I actually think there's a good chance he's scum. 1. He was cagey on the OO claim. He didn't just have an opinion, but was very careful, as if he didn't want to stick his neck out. 2. No reads. He has given his opinion of Nisani. Other than that? Nothing. I don't even know what he thought of OO with the lack of a role PM. A minor blurb about prplhz. I had a quick look at Sinani's town meta (think I only ever played with him as scum) and he seems more useful. I agree that he is more active than his usual scumgame, but a 2 page filter is not exactly the paragon of an active townie. Sinani, who do you want to lynch, why? Why have you not said anything at all about anybody except Nisani. As an added bonus, Nisani thought he was scum at the end, and they have a long history together. It might have been an OMGUS and I have to save myself, but he did give a scumread on Sinani. | ||
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On March 29 2013 08:11 ObviousOne wrote: I'm voting for SNB as well with the double lynch Marv has today to get his groove back, definitely Sinani over him. As for smurf, he does deserve a second look because his D1 was mostly spend arguing with people about his town read on prp and retaliating against Cora. By elimination I came up with the 6 players I felt were on the probably-not-town end of the spectrum. Palmar has since flipped town so I'm down to 5. Marv can go on that list if he isn't going to push harder today. ISH is spending a lot of time on the defensive but he seems to also find Acro suspicious and I agree with that notion. So those 5 are SnB, Smurf, Sinani, Marv and me? How about you give some reasons for these... or if it's elimination, explain your town reads. | ||
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On March 29 2013 08:11 Keirathi wrote: I'm okay with Smurf and marv. ##Vote: InsertSmurfHere ##Vote: marvellosity + Show Spoiler [Mildly irrelevant] + Fun fact: Smurf has absolutely 0 mention of any opinion towards marv in his filter, aside from lumping in the null column in his list post for no reasoning. Also, his whole Dandel meta bullshit was a chainsaw defense of marv. What makes Marv scummier than Sinani? | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:50 ObviousOne wrote: scummy 1 sinani206 - Outside of Acro, was the second champion to the Nisani lynch. - Ostensibly should have had a better handle on Nisani's alignment, was completely wrong, so either a poor use of meta or intentionally using Nisani's lurky habits to push the agenda. - Sinani's voting reason claims that Nisani was pushing soft reads all game. This is hilarious because Nisani is his own first push. The rest of his filter before that is questions and looks like pretending to be involved. 2 Acrofales - I'm seeing dislike for my word choice and tone and how those cannot be linked to a town mentality. He admits he doesn't know me so how can this even be a thing if he's not comparing it to anything I've done before? - My activity within the time before the deadline is already explained within my filter during my conversation with Kei, somehow it's still an issue - Conversely gives me some credit for effort, but calls it null - that's fine and all but you could say that about anyone. Is time expenditure a town or scum tell for certain? - Strange reaction to my points about how the lynch came about. What's wrong with pointing out how the bandwagon got started? 3 strongandbig - Dislikes my "tone" ? Okay - Last minute vote-switch attempt (half-hearted at that) - Felt like mostly a non-entity D1 maybe not town, not sure yet Oatsmaster Palmar InsertSmurfHere Ah, I completely missed this post. That explains why I was confused. I don't see where you say why I'm scum. You say why you disagree with my points for calling you scum. But why does that make ME scum? Or, in fact, a similar thing for SnB. These reads seem to be pretty much pure "you made a case on me, so I think you're scum". The only case that actually contains a reason for someone being scum is Sinani. As for the points: 1) I don't "dislike" your word choice. I explain it pretty well. Why are you bothered with when your read started ("planting the seed") or what target a scum might have lynched if they didn't lynch Nisani ("target of opportunity")? These are things that should not be occupying a townie. I don't have to know you to know that townies should not be worried about that. 2) So what? I still think it's scummy. 3) No. Time expenditure is not a real tell, although scum tends to have a harder time being active. 4) Nothing. You just didn't do it properly. The utter lack of Marv in that list was remarkable. The inclusion of Hapa, one of the greatest opponents of the Nisani lynch was also strange. And your analysis of it was focused on all the wrong things. | ||
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On March 29 2013 09:26 Keirathi wrote: Are you not reading my posts? :o Like you even replied to my post where I asked for someone to walk me through sinani because I wasn't seeing it. Yes, there are some okay points. I just don't think it makes sinani the guaranteed scum that you seem to. And I already explained why I think Marv is scum. Maybe you should do the same because you seem awfully non-committal in your read towards him. You've done everything possible to avoid talking about him. That's mainly because I'm very unsure of Marv. I had a scumread on him, but during the night it sort of went away. I want to hear those reads he promised, so I have nothing much to say about Marv at the moment. | ||
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In other news, Rayn probably scum. I have no time to explain and am posting from my iPad and will be utnil Sunday (away for Easter weekend). Kill Sinani and Smurf before him anyway. | ||
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Anyway, Sinani has disappeared, so still happy with my vote today. Sorting out the rest is a worry for tomorrow. | ||
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On March 30 2013 06:30 Hapahauli wrote: Nope. Even if Yamato and Sinani are both scum, its highly unlikely they're the only two. Let's not get lazy. Well, other than SnB's roleclaim making him confirmed town, barring a counterclaim, nothing much else has changed and I'm on a mini-break and analysing filters on my ipad with shitty internet is not fun. So... no. | ||
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Anyway, I am hating this useless marv, but it's his birthday. We shouldn't lynch him on his birthday. Sinani, prplhz is way more open than he is as scum. You making a case on a probable townie doesn't get you town points in my book when you're on the chopping block. | ||
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Happy birthday? | ||
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On March 30 2013 22:53 marvellosity wrote: I was wondering about the bit I bolded, sweetie. I think it's quite clear. For now that's all you need to know. | ||
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On March 30 2013 22:57 Oatsmaster wrote: So you are claiming unlynchable offhandedly, but not claiming town. Interesting. Also lying scum GET LYNCHED >.< You claimed Vanilla townie at the start. WAS THAT A LIE? Yes. | ||
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On March 30 2013 22:57 marvellosity wrote: Ok. How do you feel about rayn? I think he's possibly scum, but a case on him is effort that I am not going to make on my ipad, because quoting and editing posts is the pit of doom. I'm still comfortable in my other two reads, so really no need to add a case on him at the moment. Anyway, it's him or OO. Highly doubt they're scum together and haven't yet decided which is scummier. | ||
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On March 30 2013 23:00 marvellosity wrote: Why are you so casually claiming unlynchable now, Acro? Because idiots are voting for me instead of scum. | ||
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1. Thinking the QT in my role PM was the scumQT (though seriously, who wouldn't think that when it's tagged on at the end just after the "other members of the scum team") and claiming "some kind of vote rigger" there. + Show Spoiler [role pm] + Original Message From Kurumi: The Nice Guy Oh, you are so nice you wouldn't ever hurt anyone! That's why you signed up for this Town's Scum team: to prevent harm to people you like. Of course, you have a trick that will help you achieve that: You can rig the votes! Obviously, you are going to use that only once, because people are pretty angry that they are getting killed and rigging them more than once would result in your inevitable death... Did I mention you are a part of a friendship circle? Of course you are! Can't let your friends down! You win when the Scum team equals the Town members or Town can't create a scenario where they'd win. Scum team: Acrofales InsertSmurfHere Sinani206 http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/dv8DsvrH3aKfR Role acquired QT, the only way you can communicate in your circle is this qt 2. Being in the countryside with no time at all and just my ipad to write on when suddenly there was a case against me. ScumQT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BvGguDyp9QB (not really much there) Also, this game was a disaster balance-wise, but I've been over that in the QT. Also, I feel sorry for Rayn, who had an SK-esque wincon tagged onto his town wincon just to make shit harder. Honestly, the balance could have been fixed all-around quite simply by making Rayn scum, removing me from the QT and leaving everything else exactly as it was... oh, and tell Hapa and Grack that it is not necessarily safe to claim their identity in the QT. A 4man scumteam while leaving the KP pretty much the same as it was now. | ||
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