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Palmar, why is sinani more likely mafia than Nisani?
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On March 28 2013 02:26 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:01 Acrofales wrote:On March 28 2013 00:40 prplhz wrote:
I seriously don't get anything about this Nisani201 case other than marvellosity's argument which I don't really think is too strong. His play otherwise doesn't really show anything. Or maybe it does and I don't see it.
I mean we can lynch him but I don't see why he should be scum. Gonna read into someone else. On March 28 2013 00:43 prplhz wrote:
Okay maybe Nisani201 is scum. I don't disagree with your conclusion (obviously), but what happened in those three minutes to change your mind? Uh I read something in that old game, he didn't seem to sheep people and instead he actively did stuff on D1. He actually went against all thread opinion to go for his very own lynch candidate. I think Nisani201 is hard to read though. He plays similar as scum and as town and his filter usually isn't very long so it's hard to follow his thought process. I don't know, he could be scum. I'm not terribly convinced but I have nothing better right now. I don't like the InsertSmurfHere lynch. I think his defence of me against a rampaging Hapahauli/Keirathi duo looked good.
Which game are you referring to?
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On March 28 2013 02:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa can you explain why we are not lynching Palmar today, and if not today, then when do you want to lynch him?
Do you see anything townie about his play?
Do you see anything scummy about his play?
What do you think about his suspicions of marv considering Marv is probably town?
Also notice the fact that his list is basically echoing town sentiment.
no, it isn't. Corazon and sinani aren't echoing town sentiment at all.
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My play in this game doesn't look like any of those games, and my play in all of those games was quite different. That's a bad argument for me to be town.
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On March 28 2013 03:16 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:04 marvellosity wrote:
My play in this game doesn't look like any of those games, and my play in all of those games was quite different. That's a bad argument for me to be town. Why has your play been different marv? You yourself acknowledge that you aren't playing like the traditional town-marv we all know and love.
On March 27 2013 23:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 23:56 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:44 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 27 2013 23:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 23:36 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:34 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 23:30 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 23:21 Palmar wrote:
I can fight my own battles marv.
Oats, you're smarter than this. The shot was a scumshot, any townie would claim it by now. I doubt we have a multi-shot day-vig that also happens to be retarded enough to shoot early day 1.
So assume I'm scum, and explain to me the thought process behind the shot. I could've probably ridden the Grack lynch out the day as scum, and all this does is cast doubt on me as someone got shot based on an early read by me.
So the only logical scenario where I'm scum is that some random townie decided to test my read and proceed to not claim the shot.
Dudes are stupid in mafia, shit happens. If you were a JOAT with a dayvig and you wanted to kill Grack.(I have extra info ^_^) WHY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD WOULD YOU CLAIM?? If you are scum with anonymous dayvig, WHY WOULD YOU SHOOT LYNCHBAIT INSTEAD OF MARV. WHAT THE FUCK PALMAR. WHY IS YOUR DEFENSE HINGING ON THE GRACK SHOT. actually sure, that works. I forget that while a multi-shot day vig is OP a joat could work. Whatever guess I'm scum in your eyes then. But who cares really. Can you tell us how to proceed? By lynching you, and by SnB answering my question and not being a dick. Mostly SnB answering my question. I dont like dickish behaviour. grr. You don't actually have to lynch me if you want me dead, that's a completely different issue. Assume you cannot get me lynched, or well... since you cannot get my lynched, who else should we go after? Why you gotta be so mean. The problem is that I dont really have any strong scummy opinions on anyone else. Now that I think about it, Acro in Personality was a lot more 'flowy'(went with the flow) than here so I dont really think he is scum even if he is rude. Nisani seems like lynchbait/noob scum, do you want to try and change my mind? Prp is town. Umm. yeah. how about we lynch marv then. he real rude and dickish always. Except he isn't right now. Which is what worries me. As marv himself recognized I'm taking the "sit back but watch" approach to looking at him, but we're closing in on lynch time and he doesn't really seem to care how the lynch goes. I've made it pretty clear who I want to lynch, and your response "I'm ignoring that player" doesn't help. I'm going to say this only once, so you guys can take it or leave it. I had a horrible experience in Personality where I spammed way too much, got overemotional, got tunnelled, and got blinded. So much so that I barely read more than a couple of filters that game. This game I'm trying to turn my back on all that and take a bird's eye view. Is this a possibly convenient excuse for an uninvested mafia-marv? Sure. But it's not the case. Anyway, I'm not going to mention it again.
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On March 28 2013 03:42 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:23 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 03:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im saying scum didnt shoot Grack.
I thought everyone agreed. I mean fuck dude, this makes no sense at all with a scum-Palmar theory. On March 27 2013 20:26 Palmar wrote:
Strange the shot didn't get claimed huh?
I'd imagine both factions would want to take credit for the kill, seeing as I was putting pressure on Grack. Since no one claimed the shot I'm going to assume it's a scum-shot. I don't think any townie would be this stupid, and there is a clear scum motivation to shooting Grack. Look at the above post. In your story, "scum-Palmar" knows that Grack got shot by town, then goes ahead and assumes it's a scum-shot very early on? Why would scum so blatantly lie like that when they know its a lie? Well generally people thought it was a scum shot at the time AFAIK. Then he 180s after I explain my 180. I dont know, its just weird. I wanna lynch palmar. Im going keep saying this.
We're not lynching Palmar so you're wasting your time, your vote, and your posts pursuing this.
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On March 28 2013 03:51 Hapahauli wrote:
But here's what gets me... you played Hydra Mini just fine concurrently with Personality. Your town-style worked fine in pretty much every game except for Personality. So why are you lingering on Personality so much? It's a shitty, stupid game that everyone should forget about, and certainly nothing worth changing your tried and tested approach to the game over.
I disagree, it's absolutely worth me taking Personality to heart. Besides, your main issue with me is basically the presentation. It's not like I'm going to look for mafia particularly differently (aside from making sure I spend time researching stuff instead of arguing constantly in thread). I catch mafia because I'm diligent and somewhat perceptive, which doesn't require spam/emotion.
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On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine.
Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party.
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On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view?
The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia.
Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself.
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Beeteedubs, Keirathi is probably mafia.
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On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia?
Since when does it = town?
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On March 28 2013 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town? It's fucking null.
you said you liked his push on Acro, and how he backed off it. The push was bullshit and he was forced to back off because the bullshit was exposed. How you like that is beyond me.
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On March 28 2013 04:16 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:14 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town? It's fucking null. you said you liked his push on Acro, and how he backed off it. The push was bullshit and he was forced to back off because the bullshit was exposed. How you like that is beyond me. Yeah but the way he backed down seemed pretty organic. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:18 Nisani201 wrote:
I just read through Acro's filter again and I could be wrong about him.
I want to believe Palmar is scum but I've been wrong about him in the past which is why I'm not pushing against him.
I don't really know who else is scum. All of the current candidates are pretty bad. I'm gonna look into Cora. This feels very townie. He discloses a ton more information than he was asked to do so, and even though the thoughts are wishy-washy, I can sympathize with this attitude a lot from a town perspective.
He discloses no information at all...
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Keirathi
I've been reasonably suspicious of his play all game. Quite uninvolved. Also a lot of posts containing :o. I know that's a pretty silly thing but I find it quite off. I also found his case on Grackeroni over-justified, and over-explained. Palmar and Hapa had already said all there was to say about Grackeroni, and yet Keirathi feels the need to make a full-fledged case on him. These are general reasons I find Keirathi suspicious.
I didn't feel like these were enough to really push him, but I'm bringing it up now because of the prplhz stuff. I would note that Hapa basically originated the push on prplhz, and then Keirathi came into the thread to egg him on and provide 'meta' support. Now, at the time I didn't particularly feel the push on prplhz was unreasonable. I was pretty null on prplhz so I could understand the push, to an extent.
Anyway, prplhz has been in the thread today making quite active conversation, talking about reads, being open and honest. I had in my notes on Hapa and Keirathi to make sure I checked how they responded to this. Hapa responded to it in the way I'd expect a townie to respond to it, like so:
On March 28 2013 03:24 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
I leik prplzh
On March 28 2013 03:33 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:32 prplhz wrote:On March 28 2013 03:24 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
I leik prplzh I'd would be pretty sweet and awesome if you could explain what made you change your mind. I rather liked the last post, and you've been slowly improving overnight in terms of analysis. Combined with that is this lingering suspicion of InsertSmurfHere for his defense of you last night. Details will be disclosed shortly.
Here's how Keirathi responded to it:
On March 28 2013 02:46 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:18 Palmar wrote:On March 28 2013 02:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
How is Palmar town Marv?
I'm not on his team. Anyway, I am not going to be able to catch much up until in a few hours. Marv suggested smurf and nisani who are both null reads in my notes (although I'm feeling unusually uncertain about my reads this game, not sure what's going on). the remaining people who are leaning scum in this sheet btw are sinani, marv, prplhz, corazon and rayn (who I've changed my mind on)I'm feeling there's at most 2-3 scum in this list though, so at least 2-3 scum are evading my suspicions. Why are you not pushing any of those people then? :o
He comes in to take a pointless jab at Palmar, and do nothing else of note. No comment on prplhz. For someone who prides themselves at being good at meta, I find it quite hard to believe that a town-Keirathi wouldn't have had things to say about prplhz's contributions, which to me mark him as a pretty bad lynch today.
The interesting thing is that if Keirathi really felt strongly about prplhz, he could have started the push on him earlier. Keirathi actually argues quite a lot with Nisani, and finds him either wrong or scummy over many posts, and yet in the end chooses to pursue prplhz under Hapa's protection. If you read page 2 of Kei's filter, in the leadup to Kei pushing prplhz, he makes one jab at prplhz and yet repeated jabs at Nisani.
Basically Keirathi has rode other people's cases, Grack and prplhz, overexplaining his Grack case, and railing on Smurf about prplhz's meta, but has since failed to come back and reevaluate his read; or at least he did come back to have a jab at Palmar and do nothing else of importance.
I would lynch Keirathi today if I could get a majority behind it.
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On March 28 2013 04:30 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:12 marvellosity wrote:
Beeteedubs, Keirathi is probably mafia. What in the actual fuck? Why aren't you voting for me? Why haven't you engaged me to try to figure out my alignment? Why are you just randomly throwing my name out? I call bullshit.
This post also supports my case. Keirathi makes another post attacking me, and yet has still said nothing at all about prplhz.
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There's 2.5 hours to the lynch as far as I can see? That's plenty of time.
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By another post attacking me, I meant another post not related to prplhz.
I don't believe that you "hadn't got around to it" when your first post today was hours ago now.
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On March 28 2013 04:44 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:40 marvellosity wrote:
By another post attacking me, I meant another post not related to prplhz.
I don't believe that you "hadn't got around to it" when your first post today was hours ago now. 2 hours. Do you really want a play by play of what I was doing in those 2 hours? I took a shower, ate lunch, had a call from my mom, and spent about an hour catching up on the thread I missed while I was asleep. Seriously, how the fuck does that make me scum. Go on.
Because your first priority as a townie should be finding out / expanding upon your read.
I might even accept that the first time you came into the thread to have a jab at Palmar you didn't read the thread yet and went to have lunch or whatever. However your 2nd post, after you did all this, was having a jab at me. You didn't mention prplhz at all there, and you should have. You did respond to Hapa about sinani for some reason though.
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On March 28 2013 04:53 Nisani201 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 28 2013 04:41 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora why is Nisani worse than sinani? Because Sinani has at least explained his vote somewhat (that Nisani is scum). Sinani has also done a slightly better job being active in the thread and responding to different topics brought up, whereas the majority of Nisani's filter is him talking about Palmar and Grack. When it comes down to people playing this anti-town of games we have to start nitpicking stuff and looking at details like this. This post is untrue. And horrible. I would be down with a Kei lynch.
What do you make of sinani?
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