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On March 27 2013 22:16 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 22:12 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 22:11 Dandel Ion wrote:
marv tell me why you think snb is town. I don't particularly You call his early case scumbait. No sense scumbaiting as scum, is there. In case you get all hairsplitting on me now, because you can't converse like a normal human being, let me ask differently: Why don't you think he's scum? cuz he totally is.
I'm not going to converse with you at all anymore, you're too rude.
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On March 27 2013 22:19 prplhz wrote:
No but I didn't want to write something big. The "softpushing" (whatever the fuck that is since that's apparently what also makes me scum) and "going with the flow" is something I remember from him from our last game (which was like a year ago so bear with me while I check up on it even though I don't really want to reread that game because I messed up royally). That seems to be the biggest points. I like your argument about the scumbait/InsertSmurfHere/strongandbig thing but I don't think it's damning.
It would be much better if you accepted the strength of the argument rather than arguing me off my scumread like you did in Clothes Mafia 
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On March 27 2013 22:25 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 21:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 21:37 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 21:35 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 21:31 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 21:28 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 21:19 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 20:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 20:26 Palmar wrote:
Strange the shot didn't get claimed huh?
I'd imagine both factions would want to take credit for the kill, seeing as I was putting pressure on Grack. Since no one claimed the shot I'm going to assume it's a scum-shot. I don't think any townie would be this stupid, and there is a clear scum motivation to shooting Grack. Which is? A townie motivation would be to use this lynch to lynch someone else instead of Grack and cause more discussion bla bla. Scum motivation would be to cause confusion? I dont know, please elaborate Grack was the preliminary lynch, rarely does the person put under pressure on day 1 actually end up on the chopping block. I could give you multiple examples of this. There is no proper townie motivation to shoot the dude who gets put under pressure early in the game. So you didnt think he was scum? You dont sound like you were gonna push Grack today. Now who would you lynch after that weird nk? And yeah with anonymous vig, scum probably shot but thats not really the point. No no, at the time I thought Grack was scum, or he was my best read. But I also re-evaluate the actual lynch on the second half of day 2 every time I play. Again, if you want me to I can point you to multiple instances of this. Lol meta eh? So do you want to push Dandel Ion's target today? Or someone else? I haven't decided. Why are all the influential people so tightfisted with their reads. WHY? ??? ?? Dandel Ion, im sorry this doesnt include you. Or me. Or anyone except palmar and marv uncertain doesn't mean tightfisted
Tell me about Nisani and prplhz, Palmar.
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On March 27 2013 22:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 22:26 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 22:25 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 21:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 21:37 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 21:35 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 21:31 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 21:28 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 21:19 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 20:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
[quote]
Which is?
A townie motivation would be to use this lynch to lynch someone else instead of Grack and cause more discussion bla bla.
Scum motivation would be to cause confusion? I dont know, please elaborate Grack was the preliminary lynch, rarely does the person put under pressure on day 1 actually end up on the chopping block. I could give you multiple examples of this. There is no proper townie motivation to shoot the dude who gets put under pressure early in the game. So you didnt think he was scum? You dont sound like you were gonna push Grack today. Now who would you lynch after that weird nk? And yeah with anonymous vig, scum probably shot but thats not really the point. No no, at the time I thought Grack was scum, or he was my best read. But I also re-evaluate the actual lynch on the second half of day 2 every time I play. Again, if you want me to I can point you to multiple instances of this. Lol meta eh? So do you want to push Dandel Ion's target today? Or someone else? I haven't decided. Why are all the influential people so tightfisted with their reads. WHY? ??? ?? Dandel Ion, im sorry this doesnt include you. Or me. Or anyone except palmar and marv uncertain doesn't mean tightfisted Tell me about Nisani and prplhz, Palmar. Think I already stated how I feel about prplhz. Nisani I tend to ignore, same as sinani.
Quite a long time ago (re: prplhz). Why don't you come lynch Nisani with me, I'll give you a shoulder rub too.
Acro, leave my little Oatsicle alone </3
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Oats, who do you want to lynch?
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On March 27 2013 22:43 Oatsmaster wrote:I dont know. Hmm. Like nisani is scummy, but there are players that are scummy as town too. SO IM WISHYWASHY AS FUCK AND CANT MAKE A DECISION. Or find scum. Hmm. I kinda want Palmar to die though.
Then explain your Palmar read to me.
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On March 27 2013 22:51 Oatsmaster wrote:He was wrong about Grack and I was right. That should not happen. He pushes Grack 100% day 1, like when he is in the thread, thats basically most of what he talks about aside from smurfs bad case and stuff surrounding that. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote:
@Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? Really fucking weird post. Its just weird. Like what. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 09:36 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 09:25 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote:
@Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? I would not consider it fair, no. I also see no reason to retract that claim. Why are you bluefishing? That question is so stupid, just like your claim. Since I think you're town, yet you're playing like an idiot I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game since you're clearly not capable of playing well. I know Palmar is arrogent but what in the world is this. Day 1 is not over. Way overreaction. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 21:19 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 20:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 20:26 Palmar wrote:
Strange the shot didn't get claimed huh?
I'd imagine both factions would want to take credit for the kill, seeing as I was putting pressure on Grack. Since no one claimed the shot I'm going to assume it's a scum-shot. I don't think any townie would be this stupid, and there is a clear scum motivation to shooting Grack. Which is? A townie motivation would be to use this lynch to lynch someone else instead of Grack and cause more discussion bla bla. Scum motivation would be to cause confusion? I dont know, please elaborate Grack was the preliminary lynch, rarely does the person put under pressure on day 1 actually end up on the chopping block. I could give you multiple examples of this. There is no proper townie motivation to shoot the dude who gets put under pressure early in the game. Ok so Grack was basically the only thing Palmar pushed day 1 right? This reads like Palmar wasnt sure/expected himself to find another read. Which isnt inline with his mentality before the dayvig. So some scummy stuff about Palmar. I dont see much point in putting down a vote at this time. Do you?
The thing is, Oats, if Palmar is genuinely your top mafiaread then you need to make a case on him (like this), vote him, and persuade other people to vote for him.
Do you think mafia or town shot Grack? If mafia, and Palmar is mafia, why would his team shoot Palmar's primary push?
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On March 27 2013 22:59 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 22:55 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 22:51 Oatsmaster wrote:He was wrong about Grack and I was right. That should not happen. He pushes Grack 100% day 1, like when he is in the thread, thats basically most of what he talks about aside from smurfs bad case and stuff surrounding that. On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote:
@Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? Really fucking weird post. Its just weird. Like what. On March 27 2013 09:36 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 09:25 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote:
@Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? I would not consider it fair, no. I also see no reason to retract that claim. Why are you bluefishing? That question is so stupid, just like your claim. Since I think you're town, yet you're playing like an idiot I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game since you're clearly not capable of playing well. I know Palmar is arrogent but what in the world is this. Day 1 is not over. Way overreaction. On March 27 2013 21:19 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 20:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 20:26 Palmar wrote:
Strange the shot didn't get claimed huh?
I'd imagine both factions would want to take credit for the kill, seeing as I was putting pressure on Grack. Since no one claimed the shot I'm going to assume it's a scum-shot. I don't think any townie would be this stupid, and there is a clear scum motivation to shooting Grack. Which is? A townie motivation would be to use this lynch to lynch someone else instead of Grack and cause more discussion bla bla. Scum motivation would be to cause confusion? I dont know, please elaborate Grack was the preliminary lynch, rarely does the person put under pressure on day 1 actually end up on the chopping block. I could give you multiple examples of this. There is no proper townie motivation to shoot the dude who gets put under pressure early in the game. Ok so Grack was basically the only thing Palmar pushed day 1 right? This reads like Palmar wasnt sure/expected himself to find another read. Which isnt inline with his mentality before the dayvig. So some scummy stuff about Palmar. I dont see much point in putting down a vote at this time. Do you? The thing is, Oats, if Palmar is genuinely your top mafiaread then you need to make a case on him (like this), vote him, and persuade other people to vote for him. Do you think mafia or town shot Grack? If mafia, and Palmar is mafia, why would his team shoot Palmar's primary push? Im inclined to think not scum because he looked like becoming mislynch number 1. [Speculation Incoming] The reason why it wasnt claimed its cause 1. Dude flipped town, its embarrassing 2. The dayvig can do it again/has other powers ##Vote: PalmarMarv why arent you sheeping me?
Just like Dirk in Hydra you mean? He was also mislynch #1 and mafia shot him to incriminate me. Due to the anonymity of it, I'm actually inclined to agree with you that it was a town shot. Was it really worth shooting Grack to incriminate Palmar? (that question is mostly rhetorical)
I don't have a mafia-read on Palmar, so I'm not going to sheep you. Sorry broski <3
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On March 27 2013 23:56 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 23:44 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 27 2013 23:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 23:36 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:34 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 23:30 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:28 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 23:21 Palmar wrote:
I can fight my own battles marv.
Oats, you're smarter than this. The shot was a scumshot, any townie would claim it by now. I doubt we have a multi-shot day-vig that also happens to be retarded enough to shoot early day 1.
So assume I'm scum, and explain to me the thought process behind the shot. I could've probably ridden the Grack lynch out the day as scum, and all this does is cast doubt on me as someone got shot based on an early read by me.
So the only logical scenario where I'm scum is that some random townie decided to test my read and proceed to not claim the shot.
Dudes are stupid in mafia, shit happens. If you were a JOAT with a dayvig and you wanted to kill Grack.(I have extra info ^_^) WHY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD WOULD YOU CLAIM?? If you are scum with anonymous dayvig, WHY WOULD YOU SHOOT LYNCHBAIT INSTEAD OF MARV. WHAT THE FUCK PALMAR. WHY IS YOUR DEFENSE HINGING ON THE GRACK SHOT. actually sure, that works. I forget that while a multi-shot day vig is OP a joat could work. Whatever guess I'm scum in your eyes then. But who cares really. Can you tell us how to proceed? By lynching you, and by SnB answering my question and not being a dick. Mostly SnB answering my question. I dont like dickish behaviour. grr. You don't actually have to lynch me if you want me dead, that's a completely different issue. Assume you cannot get me lynched, or well... since you cannot get my lynched, who else should we go after? Why you gotta be so mean. The problem is that I dont really have any strong scummy opinions on anyone else. Now that I think about it, Acro in Personality was a lot more 'flowy'(went with the flow) than here so I dont really think he is scum even if he is rude. Nisani seems like lynchbait/noob scum, do you want to try and change my mind? Prp is town. Umm. yeah. how about we lynch marv then. he real rude and dickish always. Except he isn't right now. Which is what worries me. As marv himself recognized I'm taking the "sit back but watch" approach to looking at him, but we're closing in on lynch time and he doesn't really seem to care how the lynch goes.
I've made it pretty clear who I want to lynch, and your response "I'm ignoring that player" doesn't help.
I'm going to say this only once, so you guys can take it or leave it. I had a horrible experience in Personality where I spammed way too much, got overemotional, got tunnelled, and got blinded. So much so that I barely read more than a couple of filters that game. This game I'm trying to turn my back on all that and take a bird's eye view. Is this a possibly convenient excuse for an uninvested mafia-marv? Sure. But it's not the case. Anyway, I'm not going to mention it again.
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Acro is my strongest townread out of Hapa/Palmar/Acro. In addition to investment blabla, some of his posts are craycray, like at points in the first half of Duel, and MTG2. The Acro-mafia I played with in Personality was way more measured.
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On March 28 2013 00:05 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:01 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:57 prplhz wrote:
@Palmar Why isn't Acrofales scum? Did you read his posting so far? He's very clearly reading the thread and putting effort in his posts. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility (him realizing marv might be burned by the Personality mafia stuff and his response to my case on Grack are both somewhat strange), he is not playing scum you can catch without any information. I cannot say he isn't scum, but I can say I'm not lynching him right now. Well, actually you said in this post Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 09:36 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 09:25 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote:
@Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? I would not consider it fair, no. I also see no reason to retract that claim. Why are you bluefishing? That question is so stupid, just like your claim. Since I think you're town, yet you're playing like an idiot I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game since you're clearly not capable of playing well. that you think he's town. So you can say that you think he is town but you cannot say that he isn't scum or what exactly are you saying?
I'm going to answer for Palmar because this is silly. Very rarely are things binary in mafia. Having a town-read on someone doesn't mean you 100% think they're town.
How about that Nisani meta you promised me?
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On March 28 2013 00:13 prplhz wrote:
"I can fight my own battles"
"I'm going to answer for Palmar"
So how about that Nisani meta, prplhz?
Nisani looks worse after the Grack flip because he was soft-defending Grack from the start of the game. He called the case bad and said Grack hadn't done anything scummy. This ties in to the inherent knowledge of alignments argument that I made regarding his "scumbait" line on Smurf.
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On March 28 2013 00:12 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:07 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 00:05 prplhz wrote:On March 28 2013 00:01 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 23:57 prplhz wrote:
@Palmar Why isn't Acrofales scum? Did you read his posting so far? He's very clearly reading the thread and putting effort in his posts. Even if he is scum, which is a possibility (him realizing marv might be burned by the Personality mafia stuff and his response to my case on Grack are both somewhat strange), he is not playing scum you can catch without any information. I cannot say he isn't scum, but I can say I'm not lynching him right now. Well, actually you said in this post On March 27 2013 09:36 Palmar wrote:On March 27 2013 09:25 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2013 09:04 Palmar wrote:
@Acrofales at the beginning of the game you claimed vanilla townie. Would you consider it fair that we lynch you if you at any point claim any other role in the game? If not, would you consider retracting your claim? I would not consider it fair, no. I also see no reason to retract that claim. Why are you bluefishing? That question is so stupid, just like your claim. Since I think you're town, yet you're playing like an idiot I'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game since you're clearly not capable of playing well. that you think he's town. So you can say that you think he is town but you cannot say that he isn't scum or what exactly are you saying? I'm going to answer for Palmar because this is silly. Very rarely are things binary in mafia. Having a town-read on someone doesn't mean you 100% think they're town. How about that Nisani meta you promised me? My problem is that in Palmar's reasonable for why Acrofales is town, he's actually spending more time explaining why he could be scum. I don't see what it is that you all see in Acrofales. I get that we're not lynching him today because he's reasonably active and there's probably nothing damning about him, but I'm still interested in why you actually all think he's so townie because I'm getting more of a Personality 2 feeling about him.
On March 28 2013 00:03 marvellosity wrote:
Acro is my strongest townread out of Hapa/Palmar/Acro. In addition to investment blabla, some of his posts are craycray, like at points in the first half of Duel, and MTG2. The Acro-mafia I played with in Personality was way more measured.
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On March 28 2013 00:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bleh all I know is that this lynch is not going to come easy. Too many scum candidates and too little time.
I do think Palmar's reasoning for why Grack's shot does not make him scum is valid. It really does not make sense to tie yourself to voting for a person and tunneling them, then go on to shoot them. Doesn't make sense.
Acro is a bit of a harder read. I really cannot tell what he is playing right now, so I won't vote for him on D1. Too much confusion to risk a vote there. I'm worried that Marv is his top scum read, yet he only gave superficial reasons as to why Marv is scum. Marv's defense seems in line with him trying to play a better game, plus his stupid mini-tunnel of me feels way too much like Personality for me to be suspicious now.
Smurf still needs to commit himself to actually scum hunting and not bouncing around multiple targets. Right now he's looking most likely to get my vote.
Prp, now that Grack is dead, can you stop beating around the bush and give us actual reasons as to why Acro could be scum? A vote for anything would be nice too.
How about a comment on the vote leader? ^^
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On March 28 2013 00:27 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:25 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 00:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bleh all I know is that this lynch is not going to come easy. Too many scum candidates and too little time.
I do think Palmar's reasoning for why Grack's shot does not make him scum is valid. It really does not make sense to tie yourself to voting for a person and tunneling them, then go on to shoot them. Doesn't make sense.
Acro is a bit of a harder read. I really cannot tell what he is playing right now, so I won't vote for him on D1. Too much confusion to risk a vote there. I'm worried that Marv is his top scum read, yet he only gave superficial reasons as to why Marv is scum. Marv's defense seems in line with him trying to play a better game, plus his stupid mini-tunnel of me feels way too much like Personality for me to be suspicious now.
Smurf still needs to commit himself to actually scum hunting and not bouncing around multiple targets. Right now he's looking most likely to get my vote.
Prp, now that Grack is dead, can you stop beating around the bush and give us actual reasons as to why Acro could be scum? A vote for anything would be nice too. How about a comment on the vote leader? ^^ Who is the vote leader? Too many votes so far.
Nisani. For easy reading, check out what Acro has written about him, what sinani said, and my comments in the post where I voted him.
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On March 27 2013 15:46 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
The overwhelming consensus is against town dayvigs shooting on day 1.
Looks like a blue snipe to me, honestly.
This is really weird.
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On March 28 2013 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 01:26 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 15:46 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
The overwhelming consensus is against town dayvigs shooting on day 1.
Looks like a blue snipe to me, honestly. This is really weird. I agree. After i read the thread today, i went through Grack's filter to see if there was any indication of him being blue. I didn't see anything pointing into that direction.
I still don't want to lynch OO today. As this is a majority lynch we need to start consolidating on targets. The lynch should be between Smurf and Nisani, I think.
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On March 28 2013 01:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why smurf over OO? I get Nisani and i agree. I think OO is way more scummy than Smurf (who i think is scummy too).
Much of the case you have against OO revolves around bad play but not necessarily scummy play. I also talked before about how I viewed his meta, so I won't rehash that. I don't necessarily see the problem with bringing up multiple targets. I wish he'd come back to the thread though.
Smurf for the Dandel town-game stuff, and a rather overactive defence of prplhz. Has prplhz really played (or by then had played) a sufficiently townie game for Smurf to defend him so strongly? In addition that blue snipe comment is really off. Reminds me of a comment syllo made in Personality obsQT:
+ Show Spoiler +syllogism posted
03-17-2013
08:34 AM ET (US)
What Foolishness says is very useful whether his reads are correct or not. I mafia hunt by searching for posts that in some way "feel" off (it's often difficult to convincingly describe why they are off). Then I look at the rest of the filter to see if there's evidence reinforcing that idea or pointing the other way. Posts can also be suspicious because I know that the person in question isn't likely to actually believe that; this is easier if it's someone who I know well and even easier if it's someone who thinks like me.
I'm rarely confident in someone being mafia unless I can point to something specific. Contradictions, lack of in-thread mafia hunting and wrong reads can be evidence of someone being mafia, but if that's all I have, it feels basically a coinflip at best for me.
I agree the Planting the Seed thing is somewhat weird too, I just don't think it's as weird as the blue snipe comment.
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On March 28 2013 02:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv: I understand it could be bad play. I just think it's scummy play. On top of that: Remember when i first posted my case against OO? Nobody commented in any way. Then OO came and said "fuck you, i'm not even going to read your bad case whatever it is". I think he was in fear that somebody actually goes back and sees why he is scummy and starts to question him. He was just trying to brush the case away and basically said "the case is bad, everyone, let's not go back and look at it" without actually saying so. He is trying to hide in shadows without looking like that. Notice also that he is not even trying to push the case on me further, he just agrees with Hapa that "prplhz is a good lynch too". Why not try to convince other players that i am scum if he is so sure of that?
I'm going to reread Smurf later.
*shrug*. You may be right, but I'm sceptical for now. I don't think Palmar supports an OO lynch either, so it's a no-go for today at least.
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On March 28 2013 02:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
How is Palmar town Marv?
Also extremely non accurate way of determining mislynch.
Nisani lynch is too easy.
Only me(im town) and Rayn(probably town) pushed any other candidate.
I dont see anything going on.
Like no one is really in favor of the Nisani lynch only going like
'Yeah he is scum, maybe'
I dont know, it doesnt sit right.
There's 3 votes on prplhz, 2 of them being Keir/Hapa, I would say that was a quite significant other push. The fact we're only halfway to a majority on Nisani indicates this lynch isn't too easy at all.
I read Palmar's filter earlier and I'm still betting on town, I *think* his posts are sincere.
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EPT
