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On March 26 2013 13:41 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Do I really even have to tell you I think you look the most town out of everyone so far?
I think you're a good enough player to know how people read you, Hapa.
I am really surprised that you have Hapa down as obvious town. I don't think it's that obvious at all. Especially given Hapa's rather tricksy scumplay.
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EBWOP: what makes you say he's town?
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On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote:Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:54 Acrofales wrote:
However, if you BELIEVE OO is lying about not having read his role PM; you should really be in favour of lynching him. The ONLY reason to LIE about this, is because he's scum. There is no townie reason to lie and say you have not read your role PM. The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales
You are terrible. I made a lot of sense in the beginning of the game. My VERY FIRST serious post was my opinion on OO's claim. The rest of my filter has my opinion on DI, prplhz and Marv. Off the top of my head. Probably anything else that has been discussed in the thread too.
This game gonna be easy. Lynch the liar!
##vote Nisani201
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On March 26 2013 14:28 Nisani201 wrote:Acrofales was telling other people what they should do depending on whether they believed OO was lying. He did not mention if he thought OO was lying or not. Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 14:09 Hapahauli wrote:InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work. Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things? The latter.
I believe I made it quite clear that it doesn't matter. I will judge his play as if he HAS read his role PM, but I choose to believe he hasn't.
All the claim does is put pressure on him to act as a townie, because if he uses it to be useless, then it increases the chance that he DID in fact read his role PM and is scum using the excuse to be useless and not be held accountable for his actions.
However, if he DOES act as a townie, then worst-case, he is scum with a chance of bussing his buddies. I don't mind scum who bus their scumbuddies at all. They're my favourite kind of scum. They then get caught lategame, because they'll have to survive umpteen lynches all by themselves (and if he still hasn't read his role PM, then he has to survive without KP, making it all the easier to catch him)
Now I have said that before. Twice, in different words and maybe not in this much detail. But it was my first few posts, when I was supposedly BEING USEFUL. How the fuck are you calling those posts useful without actually knowing their content?
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On March 26 2013 14:57 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 14:54 Acrofales wrote:
However, if he DOES act as a townie, then worst-case, he is scum with a chance of bussing his buddies. I don't mind scum who bus their scumbuddies at all. They're my favourite kind of scum. They then get caught lategame, because they'll have to survive umpteen lynches all by themselves (and if he still hasn't read his role PM, then he has to survive without KP, making it all the easier to catch him) Wait wait wait what? How do you propose we catch this 'scum' who hasnt read his role pm? If you say that he acts like a townie, what differentiates him from the other townies? How does him having no KP make it easier? Wtf acro.
USE YOUR BRAIN FOR ONCE. IN. A. MAFIA. GAME. EVER. PLEASE.
We lynch scum. We lynch another scum. We lynch another scum. KP stops. Golly, I wonder who could be the last scum? Maybe that dude who still hasn't read his role PM and therefore doesn't know he should be sending in nightly hits!
Also, if he does read his role PM in time to send in the NKs and you reach 2-1 lylo with someone who looked townie all game and someone who has looked townie, but claimed not to read his role PM, LYNCH THE FUCKING GUY WHO HASN'T READ HIS ROLE PM UNTIL LATE IN THE GAME.
If town has people left who failed to look properly townie alive after a minimum of 5 lynches, in which 3 scum were nailed, then I don't know what to tell you. Townies failed miserably.
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I'm awake!
I don't quite know what Grack has done to deserve all this attention.
I understand Palmar's initial point, which I don't really agree with is all that scummy, but at least I understand what he was saying.
However, since then I have had no problem with Grack at all and Keirathi's case is outright bad and feels like Keir is simply making a case to get a wagon rolling. I don't like that at all.
Palmar, you should drop Grack and start lynching Nisani, whose sole contribution is one big fat lie.
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Lol. I have been epically and completely ninja'd while I got my thoughts in order this morning.
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Because he takes some stuff which is not indicative of alignment at all and calls it scummy.
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Oats, you don't seem your normal talkative self. What's up?
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On March 26 2013 21:36 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 21:34 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 26 2013 21:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Dandel, why do you think marv is scum? Absence of towntells is the biggest reason. Well apart from one really minor one, but that's easy to fake and I already know he's at least rudimentarily aware of it, so I can't read much into that one, realistically. He's also not doing shit. And on top of that I looked into his soul and it's red. I drew a picture of that result, too. For TRANSPERANCY Come on, I used the 'marv doesnt look townie, therefore he is scum' argument in Duel. It wasnt true. In all seriousness, who are your scumreads?
It was also completely wrong there, because Marv looked townie in Duel. But I still advocate prudence. Getting into a tunnelfest with Marv is not going to help town. A better argument is that he didn't look townie in MTG 2 and DI and I tunneled him into oblivion, when he was actually town.
DI, why are you convinced he's scum THIS game?
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On March 26 2013 22:12 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 22:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 26 2013 21:58 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 26 2013 21:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes i propose marv starts playing and exlaining his actions.
I can't understand why people think it's not okay to question certain players because they apparently are some fucking mafia gods who can't be lynched on D1, but it's totally okay to drop "policy votes" on players you find to be less competant. Everyone has a same chance of being mafia based on odds itself and noone is above being questioned or being called out on D1. Simple. Mainly cause these 'mafia gods' as you called it, dont do shit that leads to them being policy voted? And when they do, they get policy voted, dont worry. Most of the time, its because its not that difficult to figure out their alignment when they start to post more. With random dudes, its harder because you arent as familiar with their playstyles. It's just that from what i have understood marv is a really good player as scum as well. It becomes even easier for him to lead the town to destruction (if he is mafia) if he gets to do stuff he wants to and doesn't have to worry about people's concerns about him. Actually if I'm quiet it makes it much harder to push my agenda, if I'm mafia. Anyways I'm going to leave OO alone for now. He already provided more opinions (although not very categorical) than he managed in the entirety of the first cycle in Hydra, when he was easily caught. ##Unvote
What a pointless thing to say (the first). If you're quiet and not pushing lynches you are useless as either alignment. That doesn't make you town.
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On March 26 2013 13:53 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 13:51 Acrofales wrote:On March 26 2013 13:41 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Do I really even have to tell you I think you look the most town out of everyone so far?
I think you're a good enough player to know how people read you, Hapa. I am really surprised that you have Hapa down as obvious town. I don't think it's that obvious at all. Especially given Hapa's rather tricksy scumplay. Oh come on. If there's anything you should have learned from Duel Mini is that my scum-game is pretty easy to catch if spend 2 minutes looking at my meta.
The meta case was on D3. On D1 I (and the entire thread) had you as scum for a retarded 180 on Iamp. Without that I would probably have had you as a tentative town read D1 (and I had you down as a tentative town read all the way until Yamato dueled you).
I don't see how being able to catch you as scum on D3 with meta is supposed to make you obvious town early on D1. I don't understand how Smurf has you down as obvious town NOW.
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On March 26 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:
If you're lynching Oats based on contradictions, you'll lynch him in every single game you play with him.
While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play.
His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140
I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style.
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On March 26 2013 23:46 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 21:16 Acrofales wrote:
Because he takes some stuff which is not indicative of alignment at all and calls it scummy. + Show Spoiler [keirathi's case post] +On March 26 2013 15:08 Keirathi wrote:Anyways, I'm much more interested in Grack right now. I wasn't particularly awed by Palmar's vote/case and Hapa's input, but his interactions afterward have been much worse IMO. Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:56 Grackaroni wrote:On March 26 2013 10:53 Palmar wrote:
Hello thread.
I have concluded that Grackaroni is scum. Please lynch him.
##Vote Grackaroni Any reason in particular? He doesn't call out the bullshit vote. He panics, and questions it to figure out what he did wrong. I don't know any townie who reacts to a random vote on themselves by saying "OH GOD WHAT DID I DO?" Some get mad at the 'bad' play, some ignore it completely, and some vote the person back. But, even more than that: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:24 Grackaroni wrote:On March 26 2013 11:19 Palmar wrote:
If you're town I'm about to mislynch you grack. Do something to convince me you're not scum. I really don't think you will. Give me something in the thread you want me to respond to and I will give you my opinion. (not much has stood out to me so far). By the way I'm just curious. Do you remember me from any other games? He's looking for a way out. He doesn't volunteer information, he wants to know what information Palmar wants, so that he can give the "right" answer, rather than a "real" answer. And finally: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:37 Grackaroni wrote:
You are problably town. This is the most interest I've seen you take in scumhunting in a long time. (even though I haven't played recently I've tried to keep reading games.)
I can see why that post may have looked scummy. I didn't make my message clear and it looked like I wasn't giving any opinion. I intended for it to be directed at Sinani because I believe him using that as a reason to push the lynch onto OO is much scummier than OO actually not reading his role PM.
the only hesitation I have (and it's a small one) is that in Werewolves I walked into the pm chat and you (as scum) just said that I was scummy after one line and used pushing me as your way of contributing to the thread. (it's possible that you are looking for me to omgus in a fit of anger and dig my own grave)
Despite this hesitation I do believe your posting is townie and I think you want to scumhunt but some past experiences with you do scare me. Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote:On March 26 2013 12:49 strongandbig wrote:On March 26 2013 12:45 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't like the case on Dandel Ion. He seems to troll regardless of alignment so there's nothing in there that points to him being scum this game as opposed to just anti-town.
@ISH Why didn't you bother to look up a town game of Dandel Ion? u scum bro? No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason. The bolded points feel like more "oh crap, I re-read my posts and realize I made some mistakes. Time for damage control". Like, he was already looking back at his posts to see how they LOOKED. His first reaction was to apologize for how they were perceived. THEN he explains himself better. It betrays his mindset of caring about his appearance. How can you say that this stuff is not alignment indicative? "Caring more about looking townie than actually helping town" is like the *definition* of alignment indicative. I'm seeing a lot I don't like from acro at the moment. Also yeah I've been getting uber shat on but it would be cool if prplhz showed up sometime in the next few hours and posted some stuff. There's quite a lot that he could actually comment on now productively and without unnecessarily cluttering the thread again.
Because that's not at all the way I read those posts.
1. On March 26 2013 10:56 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:53 Palmar wrote:
Hello thread.
I have concluded that Grackaroni is scum. Please lynch him.
##Vote Grackaroni Any reason in particular?
Keirathi says this is a scummy response. I don't see why. Palmar places an unjustified vote, and Grack asks why. Null.
2. On March 26 2013 11:24 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:19 Palmar wrote:
If you're town I'm about to mislynch you grack. Do something to convince me you're not scum. I really don't think you will. Give me something in the thread you want me to respond to and I will give you my opinion. (not much has stood out to me so far). By the way I'm just curious. Do you remember me from any other games?
By focusing only on the second sentence, Keirathi transforms the meaning imho. I read it as "BRING IT. Anything in particular you want to talk about?" This doesn't mean he won't talk otherwise. Anyway, insecure people looking for guidance from their town reads is not a scumtell.
Hence: null.
3. Admitting failure. Yeah, still not scum. It's simply an approach to playing the game. Seen plenty of townies, and scummers, do this. Null tell.
And that was the entirety of Keirathi's fantabulous case. Big fucking load of bunk.
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Some updates.
I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is.
Raynpelikoneet does not look particularly scummy to me. There are some posts I don't like:
+ Show Spoiler [this one] +On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer.
+ Show Spoiler [and this one] +On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:34 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find. The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum. Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case. The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right.
However, neither of these are particularly concerning... and while his case on OO was somewhat OMGUS, I think he picked on some good points and OO's case really was just a bad association case based on unflipped players.
Mostly, however, I like that he does not seem concerned to speak his mind or share his reads, and I don't get the feeling that he is just throwing suspicion around to see where it sticks. In closing: he's not a scumspect at the moment.
I'm not really liking what I see in Cora's filter.
In particular this post:
On March 26 2013 15:17 cDgCorazon wrote:
Acro you are blowing OO saying that he hasn't read his role pm way out of proportion. It was annoying at first, but now it's looking scummy.
came at a time when I was NOT talking about OO at all (except to answer Oats' stupid question). In fact, I only directly talk about OO in two posts, the rest is all using it as a springboard to analyse OTHER players' reactions to it. At the time, I had specifically singled out two reactions as feeling off: Nisani's and Cora's own. Trying to flip it back just reaks of panicked OMGUS.
However, given how Cora was a rather easy mislynch in Personality 2, I am hesitant to just outright call him scum for this behaviour. While I don't agree with his read on Rayn, his posts about it are reasonable and he seems forthcoming with his opinion.
My main scumspect is still Nisani. His case was a pack of lies and he has disappeared from the thread again. Lynch him. Here is his case on me:
On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote:Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:54 Acrofales wrote:
However, if you BELIEVE OO is lying about not having read his role PM; you should really be in favour of lynching him. The ONLY reason to LIE about this, is because he's scum. There is no townie reason to lie and say you have not read your role PM. The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales
My first few posts were where I gave my opinion about OO's claim. How can those be my most sensible posts when he has clearly not even read them properly?!
It's because he is scum and needed to contribute, so jumped on something without thinking it through, that's why.
##revote Nisani201 for emphasis.
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On March 27 2013 02:46 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I had no questions. I was telling why you are scum. Oh. That's cool. Carry on then. You don't have to try to convince me I'm scum. While you're here, summarize your feelings about Grack for me, 'kay?
OO, who's your top scumread? Your filter is VERY vague and says nothing about who you think is scum.
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On March 27 2013 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
Grackeroni is an infinitely better lynch than either rayn or Obvious. Obvious isn't playing scared at all which was the overarching theme of his play in Hydra Mafia (even with VE for support).
Acro, I'll check what you said about Nisani when I'm home and have some time later.
What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way.
Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity?
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On March 27 2013 03:41 ObviousOne wrote:
Acro, I think your case on Nisani has some merit, though it may have roots in his relative inactivity up to this point. Do you have a second scum read? We seem to agree on Rayn looking town for now so I will ask for your opinion on Oatsmaster.
Is Oats town or scum to you?
This still holds:
On March 26 2013 23:27 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:
If you're lynching Oats based on contradictions, you'll lynch him in every single game you play with him. While this is true, I have not yet seen the town Oats come out to play. His questions feel more timid than usual, and the only post that really gets up in anybody's face is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18133140I don't know that scum Oats would poke Palmar like that. Other than that it all feels rather safe, rather than Oats' usual reckless spammy style.
I would have to take a closer look at LIX to see whether a blatant 180 like he took on his SnB read is something he might do as scum. However, first I'm going to look at your town meta. I don't really see what Marv does in your scum meta that is so very different from your play this game. But I admit I only know you from NMM37, which is not very representative at all for any kind of meta.
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On March 27 2013 03:26 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:38 Acrofales wrote:
Some updates.
I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is. It's yamato.
I had that suspicion, but thought he could be promethelax as well. How sure are you? Because I can see Yamato making a bad half-arsed meta case, but Prom is far more meticulous and should be insta-lynched if he makes a case like that.
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On March 27 2013 04:28 Nisani201 wrote:
Good morning everyone.
The case on Grack is really weak, and if it were made by someone other than Palmar it probably wouldn't be getting nearly as far as it is now.
Just because Smurf made a bad case doesn't mean he's scum. He looks town now and there shouldn't be any suspicion on him.
Acrofales is making a bit more sense but his case on me is just a bunch of OMGUS. Acro, who is your secondary suspect?
So... you have gone from having me as a scumspect for a terrible reason to throwing out some town reads. Who do you think is scum?
There are a bunch of people I think could be scum as well. Cora, Sinani and OO are currently vying for second spot. I just looked over OO's town meta in Fruity and LX and it is very different from his play this game. Far more engaged and discussing things with people, less over-analysing and vague reads.
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EPT
