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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 16 2013 16:09 sciberbia wrote: Roughly how many blues and scum would you guys expect to be in a game of this size? 5-6 scum, ~5 blues? I've never played a game this big before. Good morning all! I would expect these numbers to be about accurate. To take it a step further we can look at the list and speculate what each name may relate to. There are many players in this game. Not all will be present, unfortunately, but many will. Take from this what you will. If you are not on this list, turn back now. I - The Snake II - The Devil III - The Sword <---- Possibly RBer or Vigilante IV - The Priest <-- Medic? V - The Eye <-- Detective? VI - The Oracle <--- I'd imagine a Watcher type role? VII - The Hero <--- More likely Vigilante candidate VIII - The Minotaur IX - The Nightmare X - The Mirror XI - The Fool XII - The Coward XIII - The Messiah XIV - The Messenger XV - The Dreamer XVI - The Tower XVII - The Key This is all assuming the role names indicate what the role might entail, which I doubt is much of a stretch. I think once we have some flips and have a better idea of how roles correspond to names/numbers. As a warning to this, I imagine the host is well aware that having every name/role listed in the OP could be used to break the game if it were that straight forward. So we should keep that in mind if any sort of plan is brought up involving name claiming. I specifically remember a game I once played where the Mafia aligned team was able to kill an extra person each night if they could correctly guess their role/name. I wouldn't be surprised if that or a similar mechanism was designed into this given the information we have been presented with. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 16 2013 16:20 Wade Fell wrote: Peashooter are you fucking serious You have a problem? | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 16 2013 16:23 Wade Fell wrote: Not one I can't solve in 48 hours. ##vote thepeashooter If that's how you feel. I don't believe there is anything wrong with mentioning a few guidelines regarding the game setup and moderate speculation on what it could entail. Anything beyond minor speculation and words of caution would be a foolish endeavor though. Anyway, I'm off to bed. I will try to read a bit before I head to work tomorrow. I work 2-10PM EST. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
Coagulation I see no reason for you to continue being in this game. You have posted nothing of value and show no signs of doing so. On March 16 2013 16:46 Coagulation wrote: im town thank god Annoying spam is annoying. I always hated when people do this and that is not going to change. Why bother saying it? I know making my first post always feels contrived because I never know where to begin, but just saying something stupid and worthless is even worse. Here are his other two gems. On March 16 2013 16:58 Coagulation wrote: ##APPLY: SAST On March 16 2013 17:07 Coagulation wrote: shucks Yeah, its only 3 posts. But I don't care. This trend is stupid and I don't feel like letting this game succumb to spam or stupidity. Vote: Coagulation | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
No, you had your chance. You started posting like shit. You get the axe until you prove you shouldn't. I'm not dealing with this into mid game where its a do or die scenario and we can't justify the do. But ask yourself. What has any of those 3 posts brought to the game? They brought nothing except excess posts. It clutters are game and hurts us. It isn't just that they were shit. They were pointless and scummy shit. Pretty much every other person has contributed more than a couple of words in their posts and that's a standard worth holding people to. So we should kill Coagulation because he is both scummy and worthless. I can't imagine a better criteria. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 17 2013 09:27 Wade Fell wrote: There is a possibility he's a smurf of a younger player who hasn't heard of coag, or he literally made his account just before this game started, just to sign up for the last spot. I consider both of these possibilities somewhat unlikely. And, even considering the apparent vacuousness of his vote on coag, he hasn't taken a stance on GK or Geript or really anyone or anything, ignoring all other discussion in town to tunnel his target. This is an easy way for scum to avoid meaningful interaction with town and giving out reads. We don't know anything about his thought-process, so of course it seems WIFOM-ey-- but his play absolutely prevents us from clearing the wine from in front of us. I'm not saying he's a bad scum player-- this is a clever ruse. But he is scum. Town would have an opinion on GK, ESPECIALLY town pushing another lynch. Can this guy really be considered to be "pushing" coag given that he hasn't tried to stop the GK lynch at all? He's putting forth a simulacrum of what a townie does. Clever, but not enough. A large part of me wanted to ignore you entirely. But I will give you a response for the sake of clarifying a few things for other players. I don't really consider you in particular worth responding to, but unfortunately I feel like your loud voice might overwhelm the voices of cooler heads. On March 17 2013 11:06 Wade Fell wrote: He stopped posting 2 hours before the first vote on GK went down, but it's been like 18 hours since then. Where is he? He still hasn't weighed in on Geript either, and Geript was under pressure while he was posting in thread. If he comes back, says he's been gone for 18 hours like grooming a chicken or whatever and he has serious thoughts to give, then I may rethink things. But as it stands, simply straight-up lurking and not posting is NOT a defense for his actions. Learn to read. Seriously. Learn to read. I posted last night that I was working 2pm to 10pm EST. I posted before I went to work and here I am again as I said I'd be. I haven't posted in about 10 hours, not 18. Furthermore I previously stated I would be gone for that time. So please stop at best misrepresenting, and at worst, lying. On to more pressing things. I read GK's filter and I read Wiggles post on it. I would also be inclined to agree that his presentation of himself as being more town than he has been is a bit questionable, particularly when combined with his apparent ability to look up previous games/players but not for Greymist. That being said, I'd be willing to vote for GK based off of this reasoning assuming the post he promised does not come or does not adequately deliver when he gives it. On that note, the sooner you say something GK the sooner we can either move on or kill you. Silence means you die, so I'd act swiftly. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 17 2013 02:26 Coagulation wrote: I got my role pm at like midnight about 5 minutes before I went to bed. And I finally get up and sit down to read thread when I wake up in morning and what do I find but peashooter pissing and moaning that I havnt been POSTING IN MY SLEEP. real fucking solid work there. "THIS GUY ISNT POSTING WHILE HE SLEEPS HE MUST BE SCUM" GJ On March 17 2013 02:29 Coagulation wrote: hey guys unless your reading or posting in thread 23 hours a day your scum according to peashooter. Im sorry we are all not hardcore like peashooter and strap diapers to our asses and drool in front of a keyboard all day like peashooter. or hey maybe hes a shit scum going for the easy target and fabricating bullshit so he doesnt have to contribute. He basically missed the whole point. I'd prefer he was inactive until he became useful as opposed to just posting worthless dribble. Then he just decides to attack me without actually providing anything useful, continuing to completely miss the point I was jabbing him anyway. He could just be stupid, but in mafia, I have found it's wiser to assume Malice before excusing stupidity. On March 17 2013 04:50 Coagulation wrote: peashooter would be my best bet for a scum lynch at this point. I hardly ever have good reads day 1. This is the post that really did it for me. I get it, I accused you. You come out at mad as hell, then say you want to lynch me, but immediately try to absolve yourself of responsibility if it goes wrong. When you combine that with Wade Fall wanting to kill me it could easily snowball and he would still have his wishy washy read and be able to deny responsibility. On March 17 2013 09:59 Coagulation wrote: im going out. I will continue to read over thread on phone. Then he leaves again without ever having said anything constructive or useful. To make a few bullets: 1. Spams and posts nothing of value. 2. In response to that he attacks a strawman. No one ever called him inactive, we said he was posting nothing of value. 3. Thinks I'm really scummy and refuses to actually truly commit on his accusation, which looks like he wants to divert blame if it goes bad. 4. Leaves again without ever actually contributing anything. I truly don't see any reason to keep him around. Which is why I would recommend voting for him over GK, particularly if GK posts something of substance. I am currently leaning more heavily on Coagulation being a better candidate. I would like to hear Mr. Wiggles respond to this case though. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:56 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I actually find this a little tough to respond to, because most of my stance towards Coag is based on gut feeling, so that makes it harder to put it into words and explain adequately. Basically, Coag makes short posts a lot of the time, and spams sometimes. He will also post emotionally sometimes. It depends a bit on context though. If he's been playing here recently and he got called out for spamming or not being present in the thread 24 hours a day, I could see him making those posts towards you. If he's scum though, he's smart enough to post like that in order to leverage it to his advantage somehow. In my experience, he isn't the most useful player on Day 1, and starts to have better reads and to share those reads and go after players on later days. That's why I'd be hesitant to lynch him right now. I'd rather wait and just see how he plays. If he doesn't do anything, we can lynch/vig him, otherwise, he'll start to pull his weight. He doesn't play the same as a lot of other people, and I guess it's a little similar to Kenpachi or something. Games I've seen sometimes recently have people wanting to kill Kenpachi because he posts a lot of one-liners and some spammy throw-away posts. But, that's just the way he plays, and people aren't used to it. Coag is kind've similar, unless he's changed since I've played with him. So, I can't contradict that his posts haven't had a ton of bearing on the game so far, or that his response to you was a bit disproportionate, but I can't say I want to lynch him for it, since lynching him would basically be a coin-flip at this stage of the game, as I don't think the way he's been playing is really indicative of his alignment. You can try to policy lynch him, but it won't do anything. You'll just do it for a few games in a row, and he'll just stop playing here for a while. I don't see him changing his play-style just because some people don't like it. tl;dr: Wait and see? I can't make a judgement call one way or the other as far as his alignment (i.e. he's null to me), so I think a different lynch is a better bet to hit red. I respect your opinion, but I feel waiting this out is a bad idea. It's one of those things that's going to constantly be put to a "Next time around" thing, where he will always be second priority. Trust me, Kenpachi was on my list too but I'd probably just try to get a vigi to do it. As a side note, I never try to delegate to vigi's because they usually never listen and a plan should never hinge on them actually listening or doing anything. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:58 DoYouHas wrote: You are just going to have to get over it. We are at a point where we can actively discuss the merits of cases and wagons instead of just hoping that a brilliantly written case will gather enough sheep to lynch scum. It's a good thing. I have no issue with posting content and I never will, even if it means 100 pages in a day. My issue is with posts like this comprising 25% of the last 80 posts. + Show Spoiler [It's fucking long] + On March 17 2013 14:14 Wade Fell wrote: why does everyone in this game and last game think I have like this massive ego I just _happen_ to always be right, it doesn't mean I have a big head about it On March 17 2013 14:19 Wade Fell wrote: We're in a normal game, it's not like the ## command does anything On March 17 2013 14:20 Wade Fell wrote: Gee I'm sorry how many scum did I lynch during the first 2 days of the last game On March 17 2013 14:22 Wade Fell wrote: Ok yes technically it was you, but I would have done the same if town elected me. On March 17 2013 14:24 Wade Fell wrote: man testsubject ok let me play it straight for you oatsmaster fucked up my night check and I still got 2 scum lynched (ok like 1.5 whatever) and when I died town had it in the bag. You lucked into victory lucked On March 17 2013 14:25 Wade Fell wrote: Also testsubject for a guy who's read the thread and can only say "geript and zare are candidates" you sure talk a lot of smack On March 17 2013 14:35 Wade Fell wrote: I mean, I _assume_ a "lynch preference" is the same as a scumread, unless of course he is scum and would prefer to lynch town On March 17 2013 14:42 Wade Fell wrote: Testsubject is basically just making half-assed attacks on the D1 lynchbait kk On March 17 2013 14:45 Wade Fell wrote: Yeah I gotta admit the new GK post isn't super sexy :| but GK is not a sexy man. contrast his "promised post" in NMMXXIV though (link) and it's like exactly the friggen same. This is town GK. I'll even quote his post so you can see it and I like never do that + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2012 15:24 goodkarma wrote: Okay, my long promised "case post." I'm sorry for the hype, as this is going to be short and possibly a bit disappointing for those that were anticipating it + Show Spoiler + (like latest Batman movie disappointing ) But here's my case. It's going to be short and sweet.: A big part of day one is establishing a good future town atmosphere. To that end, there are several people that are not participating as they should. The guiltiest of these are: Jhuyt and Golbat. Jhuyt: Jhuyt is especially suspicious to me right now. I have read the recent case presented against him by Archrun above. I tend to agree heavily with his first point: about Jhuyt's experience with Solar's post history on TL being consistent with his posting. I'm not ready to call Jhuyt a liar, but claiming Solar is troll/emotional generally on TL requires further explanation. Upon looking through some of his posts, I haven't seen this to be the case. If he is lying, this is enough reason to lynch him. Now the other part of Jhuyt that is scummy is how wishy-washy he is in the limited amount of content he has posted. Let's look at his latest post. In bold are his current "reads" on certain people. Notice how hesitant he is to take a stance on anyone.: Also, he is currently the winner of the "lurker prize." It is clear from what he has contributed that he has little interest in scum hunting. Therefore: ##Vote: Jyuht Consider it both a vote based on scum behavior and on "lurker policy." In the absence of a stronger scum read my vote goes on him. Golbat: I expected more from you. I know that it really sucks being mislynched day 1, and I haven't ruled out your lurkiness as being from over-reacting to your poor play in XXII by playing almost the exact opposite of how you played then. But you have to step up and continue posting your reads. What got you in trouble then was vote-swapping without giving much explanation. As long as you give an explanation for your reads, don't be afraid to FoS and vote. What you're doing now makes you look just as scummy as how you looked in XXII. ##FoS: Golbat YourHarry: I haven't forgotten about you. However poorly I feel you'd be playing as town by playing the way you are right now, I can't say it would be inconsistent with what I'd expect based on your previous play. I'm not un-FoS-ing you but I'm not ready to vote you as my top scum read right now either. is it shit? yes. But that was town GK, and this is town GK On March 17 2013 14:46 Wade Fell wrote: Like look he LITERALLY calls golbat scummy for the same reason he votes Jyuht. That's not GK setting up a voteswap, that's just how the man thinks. On March 17 2013 14:48 Wade Fell wrote: Ok yes in NMMXXIV he is more legit. He talks a bit about the play of the people, he's less shitty. But the idea that GK is bad because he's not evenly applying his criteria for scumminess, or that he's scum for having an easy swap is not correct. On March 17 2013 14:49 Wade Fell wrote: I will note one deviation from meta, though, and that is that town GK typically is asking questions of people and prodding a lot in thread, and this one is not. Still, though, his slow-movingness indicates town GK to me and not the quick-drawing scum GK from LVII On March 17 2013 14:53 Wade Fell wrote: :| I don't like to think I'm wrong about this kind of thing. GK are you here On March 17 2013 14:56 Wade Fell wrote: Ok here's what I'm going to do i still think GK isn't scum and testsubject IS scum. I know it's privileging the hypothesis but all the evidence around testsubject points to him being scum, and GK seems off but not entirely off. I don't want to be wrong, but if i'm wrong I want to be voting the right guy So I'm going to go fluff my komodo dragon's feathers for a bit and think on this. Even though GK's statements all seem scummy his TONE sounds like town GK, and yes I know that's not going to convince anyone but it has me convinced right now. I'll figure out what his deal is and why this is town GK and i'll show you all who's right and who's wrong testsubject be a man and post some serious case rather than flailing around like you are now if you ever want me not to lynch you today On March 17 2013 14:57 Wade Fell wrote: tl;dr: I'm right and you're all wrong, I'm just not sure how yet. I will find a way On March 17 2013 14:58 Wade Fell wrote: :| GK this would be a great time to rise to your own defense or something On March 17 2013 14:58 Wade Fell wrote: cause I got nothin really On March 17 2013 15:05 Wade Fell wrote: Almost as much of a waste of time as your setup speculation on Ve's role in a normal game On March 17 2013 15:14 Wade Fell wrote: Yeah okay his point is bad, and even pushing it wasn't helping any conceivable town agenda, even assuming he thought it was true :| Every single one of these posts was within an hour and I didn't even select every single post within that specific hour. At some point in life I might actually have to read the guys filter or rest of the damn game. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
I have been suspicious of Greymist from one of his first posts but chose not to say anything in order to see what else he would say. He never actually alleviated my suspicions and even though I think Coag is still worth lynching I am more than happy to lynch greymist. To speak a bit generically, I remember his "ahah!" post when someone called him out for inactivity and acting like it was all part of some crazy plan seemed particularly absurd and scummy to me. So I would advise a switch. I haven't had time to read over the other cases unfortunately and I assume the day is ending in a few hours and I still won't be home for 2-3 hours. To respond to the yamato stuff. I assume he was trying to figure out if I was a smurf or not which is why I just ignored it. There isn't much more to say. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
Use two different browsers that way you can have each one set to log into each account, that way you won't keep posting under your other name because you keep forgetting to log out. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 01:40 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 01:31 ThePeashooter wrote: There is no point in naming who you think all 5 mafia are when we can only kill one person a day. If you are right they are all on guard now. That was a bit stupid. The only reason you might want to do that is if you think you are very likely to die during this night phase and since half the people thought we were scum buddies at some point yesterday you aren't too likely to be on their list of targets. Can you find an example please? I remember lots of people thinking you were scum "on your own", but didn't see anyone make the connection like I did. Also it's fine if I die N1. Just shows how well I played lol. ...Did you even read anything I wrote? Also how is it that no one has any capacity to reread something to remember anything that hasn't happened in the last 5 minutes? On March 18 2013 00:06 kitaman27 wrote: ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread? On March 18 2013 01:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Ohai guise. Geript no offense, but your meta reads are shit. I'll agree with you that something appears...off about zare this game, but glurio does make a point and zare's activity does go way down on weekends. I'm willing to keep an eye on him for now but I don't think he'd be my D1 lynch candidate. I have to look into this Vivax/TPS thing right now because so far it seems the most compelling thing to me. I was going to comment on Coag's bullshit at some point but I figure I have to trust the vets on his meta once again since they ended up being right about Grush last game.....sigh. On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them. im gonna vote ThePeashooter. did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard. On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote: vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". On March 18 2013 02:41 kitaman27 wrote: I'm not really buying this explanation. When you addressed to him, you made it sound like a fact as if you knew he was yamato. If you were taking a guess, you could have said something like "hey, are you yamato?" or "This is yamato, isn't it?". Furthermore, TPS posts after you address him as yamato and he thinks nothing of it. If I'm playing a game and someone calls me someone I'm not, I'm going to be awful confused. Even though that happened 10 pages ago, you never brought it up again. TPS had ignored your "guess", yet you never followed up on it. If you were truly curious, why not mention it? You say that you "tried to guess TPS's alignment" and that you thought he was town, yet the previous post indicated that he was your number one scum read. Finally, how can you possibly come to a conclusion on a smurfs identity like that? When I see TPS's posts, I see some random player. I couldn't possibly guess who it was by the sample size you were given. ##Vote: Vivax On March 18 2013 02:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh I like Vivax lynch too. Nothing he's said has made me feel townie on him. I'ma go filter him again. Kita why you hatin on GM? I think he's fine for now, and I certainly don't like him for lynch today. Where's the beef? On March 18 2013 03:01 GreYMisT wrote: Kita I think its possible that vivax slipped up. I can definitely see that scenario happening in this game. I am not sure I am confident enough in the risk of lynching him based off only that though. Let me look over him for anything else. On March 18 2013 03:05 Coagulation wrote: Vivax lynch plz. But yeah, you are definitely a likely kill for tonight. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:19 Vivax wrote: Does anyone else find suspicious how 3 of the guys I have in my case pop in to talk about a lot of other stuff, one says I'm likely to get NKd and then just disappear and ignore my relevant question? Sorry, I realize you are from Italy and English might not be your native language. I don't in the remotest sense think that there is even the slightest possibility of you dying tonight. There is literally no reason to kill you. My point was that posting 5 suspects is pointless when you can only feasibly kill one of them a day. The only exception to that would of been if you thought you were in imminent danger of dying during this night cycle, which as I pointed out is incredibly unlikely. On March 19 2013 02:16 Coagulation wrote: im not suprised gm flips town. there were a good 4 or 5 lynch candidates yesterday and scum probably had no time pickin the one they wanted. We need to consolidate our votes/pressure day 2 or we gonna be in the same spot again. I thought GM was scummy and wanted to let it play out which is why I never said anything earlier in the day. When I saw the choices between him and Zarepath I chose GM. I had GM as scummy in my notes and I felt he only got worse since I had updated them. My notes indicate that I thought Zarepath was leaning town but upon rereading his posts I found that I thought he was more scummy than I initially thought with his first few posts. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:05 zarepath wrote: In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: As an addendum to my final paragraph, that is why I find Peashooter's opening content to be pretty scummy. Honestly, any player could have gone through and guessed at roles based on the titles (and probably did; I did as I skimmed them), but I think it's hardly worth talking about right now. I echo Wave Fell's sentiments here about Peashooter's likely scumminess. Now that I think about it, VE's talk about tarot cards seems especially useless. Another addendum to Coagulation's instant role claim : the very first thing he did after that was apply to the SAST, which is going to look pro-town without actually being pro-town. An addendum to my problems with the SAST: I am not certain as to whether or not VE seriously thought people would like his SAST idea. And one final thought: sciberbia was quick to point out that VE's tarot cards and Peashooter's speculation aren't that scummy (but I disagree and say they are more scummy than anything else so far, btw), and VE makes a good point in response: So in the end, I currently have my eyes on Coagulation, Peashooter, VE, and sciberbia. I will take a more serious look at geript later. And with those reactions, I am now off for the afternoon to help somebody move. On March 17 2013 04:54 zarepath wrote: This opening post seems kind of scummy to me. It begins with setup speculation that seems based in ignorance and not in a desire to hunt scum, continues to say that two players are consistent with their meta and he's not sure if he likes that or not, he decides he doesn't like SAST but then turns that into speculation as to a 3rd party wincon (????). Also notice the line thrown in the middle: It's an excuse for not hunting scum while saying to trust him, he's hunting scum. I would like to see more input from WoS on who he is suspicious of, and why. He just keeps bitching about set up speculation and SAST neither ideas were worth more than a post or two of speculation but over 24 hours into the game he still focuses on this and contributes nothing else of value. It's like he META'd how talking about the set up too much is scummy so he chose to talk about people talking about the set up. On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote: Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far. Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum. The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive. I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him. I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk. ##Vote: DarthPunk Call me an egotistic psychology major but the language used here just feels unnatural. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:42 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 02:36 ThePeashooter wrote: Sorry, I realize you are from Italy and English might not be your native language. I don't in the remotest sense think that there is even the slightest possibility of you dying tonight. There is literally no reason to kill you. My point was that posting 5 suspects is pointless when you can only feasibly kill one of them a day. The only exception to that would of been if you thought you were in imminent danger of dying during this night cycle, which as I pointed out is incredibly unlikely. I thought GM was scummy and wanted to let it play out which is why I never said anything earlier in the day. When I saw the choices between him and Zarepath I chose GM. I had GM as scummy in my notes and I felt he only got worse since I had updated them. My notes indicate that I thought Zarepath was leaning town but upon rereading his posts I found that I thought he was more scummy than I initially thought with his first few posts. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:05 zarepath wrote: In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: As an addendum to my final paragraph, that is why I find Peashooter's opening content to be pretty scummy. Honestly, any player could have gone through and guessed at roles based on the titles (and probably did; I did as I skimmed them), but I think it's hardly worth talking about right now. I echo Wave Fell's sentiments here about Peashooter's likely scumminess. Now that I think about it, VE's talk about tarot cards seems especially useless. Another addendum to Coagulation's instant role claim : the very first thing he did after that was apply to the SAST, which is going to look pro-town without actually being pro-town. An addendum to my problems with the SAST: I am not certain as to whether or not VE seriously thought people would like his SAST idea. And one final thought: sciberbia was quick to point out that VE's tarot cards and Peashooter's speculation aren't that scummy (but I disagree and say they are more scummy than anything else so far, btw), and VE makes a good point in response: So in the end, I currently have my eyes on Coagulation, Peashooter, VE, and sciberbia. I will take a more serious look at geript later. And with those reactions, I am now off for the afternoon to help somebody move. On March 17 2013 04:54 zarepath wrote: This opening post seems kind of scummy to me. It begins with setup speculation that seems based in ignorance and not in a desire to hunt scum, continues to say that two players are consistent with their meta and he's not sure if he likes that or not, he decides he doesn't like SAST but then turns that into speculation as to a 3rd party wincon (????). Also notice the line thrown in the middle: It's an excuse for not hunting scum while saying to trust him, he's hunting scum. I would like to see more input from WoS on who he is suspicious of, and why. He just keeps bitching about set up speculation and SAST neither ideas were worth more than a post or two of speculation but over 24 hours into the game he still focuses on this and contributes nothing else of value. It's like he META'd how talking about the set up too much is scummy so he chose to talk about people talking about the set up. Call me an egotistic psychology major but the language used here just feels unnatural. Good, did you feel the arguments in my case were not enough to convince you or is there a particular reason you brought your own reasons? How do you feel about my other reads? I don't actually remember reading your case and I just chose to read Zarepath myself and post what I thought. I just got home a little while ago and was not really in a place where I could post and analyze for an hour last night. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:50 Ace wrote: yo sup | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:52 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 02:49 ThePeashooter wrote: I don't actually remember reading your case and I just chose to read Zarepath myself and post what I thought. I just got home a little while ago and was not really in a place where I could post and analyze for an hour last night. On March 19 2013 01:31 ThePeashooter wrote: There is no point in naming who you think all 5 mafia are when we can only kill one person a day. If you are right they are all on guard now. That was a bit stupid. The only reason you might want to do that is if you think you are very likely to die during this night phase and since half the people thought we were scum buddies at some point yesterday you aren't too likely to be on their list of targets. I don't understand, you claim to not have read my case but speak of 5 people I named as scum. How does that make sense if you didn't read it? Don't be shy, what do you think of GK, cosmic and glurio? I skimmed your post and didn't remember specifics from it just now. I saw that you posted 5 or whatever suspects and commented on that. Since Zarepath was being spoken about before the Greymist lynch I kind of just assumed the case you were referring to was something from the previous day and not something that had literally just happened. So I guess it was more or less a brain fart. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote: Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. He isn't even remotely likely to get lynched and your current attitude when the whole town is now discussing how scummy you are smells of panic. It's like you are trying to just stir up chaos in the face of your imminent demise which I find entertaining. If you were town you would know you were innocent and do something besides lose your head and run around flailing your arms. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 03:17 Vivax wrote: Oh didn't realize it was sarcasm apparently. People shouldn't use that it causes trouble in forums. Don't understand why he's so hostile towards me though. Anyway, I'm off to training for 2-3 hours so you have plenty of time to give some other reads. The first time I said something I realized it might not of been clear if English was a second language. In the post linked I clarified like 3 times. 1. Posting all suspects is stupid unless you are going to die. 2. You are not likely to die. Please try to be a bit more careful when reading to avoid wasting 5 back and forth posts on the same thing. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:08 Kenpachi wrote: I'm personally not very comfortable not getting any limelight, good or bad lol ill bear with it though, I'd like to claim a medic protect on me, just cause. I have a feeling mafia will gun me down first night. GreYMisT not being scum is disappointing but it is honestly not surprising, though im having a hard time piecing information on his wagon together. Its safe to assume we will find majority of mafia, maybe even all of them, in the bunch that voted him because 1. easy as hell to sheep, 2. he is a forum veteran. 12 people voted for him, including me RyuSuzaku, goodkarma, Vivax, geript, ThePeashooter, cosmicomics, Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, zarepath, kitaman27, TestSubject893, WaveofShadow Honestly, a hard group to figure out. I'd like to assume that me and Ryu are not mafia lol. kitaman is just not contributing as much as we'd like to did we not realize? He's as invisible as I am. If anyone protects Kenpachi they are an idiot. How can you possibly think you are worth protecting? If the mafia killed you I would applaud them even if you were a jack of all trades. You have literally posted nothing of value, but you never do so that shouldn't be expected. I forget again, why do you even play this game? You never say anything and never do anything except become an anchor on whatever team you are on. On March 19 2013 07:20 Vivax wrote: Also my scumreads still didn't provide reads on Zarepath they seem to not want to play transparently for town. TPS didn't comment on the other reads I asked him for and he treated me aggressively. I sense people being uncooperative or unmotivated to help town (which doesn't surprise me since I think they scum d'oh), I didn't ask them to do something hard. If you want to see me being aggressive look above. I was nothing but nice to you so get out of this emotional state and learn to play the game. I gave you advice and you somehow keep interpreting it as a personal attack and I'm not giving you anymore leeway for English possibly being your second language. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 19 2013 21:39 kitaman27 wrote: To be clear, are you inferring that you believe VE isn't town because a town VE would have no reason to claim vet or are you lecturing VE for a poor decision? Unless someone else claims a hit, I see no reason to doubt the hit with only one flip. Keirathi could have been a doublestack, but its pretty unlikely. Unless VE is still around 5 cycles from now I imagine the claim will take care of itself. I'll get back to you after I get a chance to read through the logs. If I don't, remind me. I'm having trouble looking for a post if someone recalls it. There was a player who posted a bunch of links to a past game, without commenting on the content. I looked 3 times through the thread and couldn't find it, so I might just be crazy, but I was hoping to see if they ever followed up with it. @TPS. If you can confirm/deny your identity as yamato, I believe it will give me a clue to your alignment based on one of your earlier posts and it is something not related to the Vivax guess. If you are town, you would surely be willing to reveal this small piece of information. I'll come up with a much larger post tonight when I actually have more time, without getting interrupted every 3 minutes. This is the only indulging I am going to do and it is solely because I like Kitaman. I actually don't even know who he is. I have purposely ignored every question pertaining to this because I don't find it relevant and any other guesses will be firmly ignored. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
Now I know I'm a bit biased here so I'm going to ask both Ace and Kitaman for a favor here. I would like you to read WadeFall's filter. The reason I want someone else to do this is because I am without a doubt biased against Wade Fall and I feel as though it needs to be done by someone competent. I accept that Wade is stupid, however I believe he crossed the line from just being stupid to actively lying and overextending his reads on me to sway town to lynch me which is an extremely scummy thing. I noticed he was doing it yesterday but it wasn't as overt. Let me dissect his accusation post as an example of what I am talking about so there is a point of reference. On March 19 2013 15:57 Wade Fell wrote: I hate setup speculation, but yes, this is an entirely reasonable point in the context of speculating about the setup. I can understand VE's reasoning for outing me, especially given that this is the case. I don't really have an answer for this other than that I am a town-aligned mason role, and although it's weird it's not unthinkable, and DrH is a wiley fellow. Okay so lists posts are crap right so I'm gonna keep it short and simple, here are my two scumreads I want to lynch today, and why we should lynch them. I'm leaving wiggles, testsubj, geript wos ryu dp etc unmentioned because they are not my top 2 scumreads and I want to stay focused. Each of them individually has things I dislike about them but barring a something weird happenign with the daypost I won't be pushing them.If that changes and I am still alive, I will let you know. 1) thepeashooter: I've talked a lot about TPS in thread already but mainly I'm concerned about his attempts to _look_ like he's contributing without actually doing it. I'm like 90% sure his "anger" at my spamming is faked given that you had the same filter length as me at the time and his response to it was to just quote a bunch of my posts. I said this multiple times. I don't care about how many posts you have as long as they are actual content. I said this multiple times but for some reason he chooses to ignore this and continue pretending all I care about is post count. Furthermore, he is trying to say my anger is fake. He knows for a fact its not fake since I reported him to the host for spamming even after I asked him to shut the fuck up both nicely then directly. You know I was genuinely annoyed yet you are going to pretend you think I wasn't only because it serves a purpose. This is the definition of malicious intent. He's done a pretty slick job of not contributing to the game and looking like an "emotional townie". Why would he quote all my posts and complain about my filter length when at the time Ve has the same level of spam? (link) this doesn't read "angry town" to me, it reads "fake anger". Please illustrate how I have not contributed at all? You have pretty much done two things, spam and try to kill me but somehow I am the one who has contributed nothing. You give no example apart from you saying it is so. His weird opt-out of the town discourse D1 (link) is scummy, as well as the fact he had to be forcefully prodded into contributing. This is my favorite part. His example of me "opting out" of town discourse is a link to him just saying that I did that. At no point did I ever say fuck you for not wanting to lynch Coag and ran away to my cave until the cycle was over. He was one of a couple of people (the other being Coag) who kept pointing out how I abandoned the thread and went inactive even though my most recent posts at the time indicated that I was at work. By "Forceful Prodding" he actually meant "got home from work". I don't buy his theory that he wanted to "let it play out" with GM rather than (link) actively interacting with the case. Imagine you are a townie in this situation. Do you engage and try to get an understanding of what's going on and push your own reads, or even ask questions to refine them? Or do you hang back and "let it play out"? Even if you hang back, you at least ask questions and try to learn more. This is not what town does, this think that TPS has done. A lot of his other posts aren't analysis but are just dismissals (link)(link)(link) in which he doesn't push his own ideas but just naysays what other people have to say. I will be voting for TPS when the daypost goes up based on this. The only semi legitimate point I suppose so I will elaborate on my train of thought. I know greymist is a veteran player and I was immediately suspicious of him. My notes on him are a link to his first post and a comment that "You can do better than this." I was simply waiting him out and didn't want to give him a reason to go on the defensive if he knew I was suspicious. On top of this I was already pushing Coagulation who I still wouldn't mind seeing dead. As I stated earlier, there is no reason to push all 5 of your scum candidates at once if you can only kill one at a time. I'd prefer to pressure one and see how the others respond to that pressure. The last part of that is my hopping on the band wagon to kill Greymist. As I said earlier I had been at work and got caught up that night and I wasn't exactly sure when the day post was coming. I saw Greymist thrown out as an alternative to Zare and I knew for a fact that I thought greymist was scummy and was pretty sure I had a townread on Zare at the time. So I chose to change my vote to greymist. I didn't have time to actually post a case or do analysis because I was not home. So I admit, both scenario's are possible, but I feel that I have adequately explained my reasoning for not having said anything about greymist until passively voting for him. If you want further evidence of my reasoning for not listing every single read you can find me speaking to Vivax here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=39#763 | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 20 2013 00:45 layabout wrote: For starters it would make BH, VE and GK all scum since they are all telling us the logs are genuine. Yeah, you can't fake logs of someone who is still alive unless they are both scum. In this case it would mean all 3, (IE: around 50-60% of the mafia team) would have to be scum. This would be an insane ploy. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 20 2013 04:16 Coagulation wrote: hey guys reading up on thread now. Feel free to ask me any questions. peashooter spent a good amount of energy effort trying to rally a lynch on me. Im pretty much the easy lynch in every game so its not uncommon for scum to try and push town into lynching me. Its strange to me that there are so many people who have put me in as a town read already. I dont think I should be a town read for anyone just yet. but its a good thing at any rate cause im town. I wouldnt mind having peashooter lynched just on the basis that he was willing to let town run in circles over his identity while saying nothing. that seems fairly anti town. like hes trying to milk the speculation for all the chaos it can possibly generate. You know I'm beginning to see why Greymist let himself get lynched. If we have townies like you we don't even need scum. On March 20 2013 04:10 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Thepeashooter: One thing I understand that thepeashooter has said is that he was fed up with being harassed by BH, and his anger was genuine. I believe him here. BH's casepoint that he's faked anger is pretty bad. But when it comes to contributing meaningfully to scumhunting, I agree with BH's case that he's come up rather empty. Even now, thepeashooter seems more concerned with defending himself than with giving out reads. His recent case against Wade is pretty much an OMGUS. And if you were to look at his filter, he spends a lot of time talking about rather meaningless shit, like that Vivax and Kenpachi have no chance of getting shot... This is NOT proactive scumhunting. That being said there are a few people like thepeashooter right now (semi-active, but absolutely useless). While what he's done to date is definitely scummy, I'm not in favor of lynching him today. I believe that by looking at players with better-established meta, we can have a more certain scum lynch. ....I've said a dozen times now that it had nothing to do with him harassing me. It had to do with spam which is one reason I stopped playing mafia for so long. There is this new meta of it somehow being okay for people like him to spam the shit out of the thread and make the game unplayable. I also hate when people use the term OMGUS every 4 seconds. OMGUS doesn't means that I am attacking someone simply because they attacked me. However, that's not the reason. The reason I said something is because I find the way he does things to be scummy and worth looking into. Therefore what I said was not OMGUS. However, I understand some people are too stupid to realize the difference between legitimate concerns over a players alignment and would simply write my thoughts as OMGUS which is why I asked for someone else to read his filter and assess the situation. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 20 2013 08:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Your "slip" on him is ridiculous, he literally said "IF we have townies like you, who needs scum" It in no way implies that he thinks Coag is town. It implies that he thinks that IF Coag is town, then scum don't need to be in the equation for town to lose - at least that's how I interpreted it. You're grasping BH. Really really hard. At least someone sees what I mean. He has been doing this for the whole day 1. I just can't decide If he's just a jackass who can only interpret anything I do as scum, or if he's scum purposely doing it to try to kill me. One of my main issues with Coag/Kenpachi is that they don't post, and when they do it's literally worthless. Players who post no content at all, literally just one liners drive me insane. I really hate spam posting. From this point forward though I'm going to ignore Wade because it's entirely non constructive to engage him at all and it is a waste of my time that I could better spend doing other things in game. But here is the last thing I'm going to respond to because it's an issue of integrity. On March 20 2013 06:12 Wade Fell wrote: I strongly disagree. The half-assed setup speculative post is EXACTLY the kind of post you can make as scum without meeting up with your buddies, without having to worry about giving anything away or accidentally being helpful. He DID go on a tirade, and he admits, publically, that he pressured the hosts to modkill me. If this isn't a tirade I will literally eat my hat IRL. Can VE and I get annoying? Sure, yeah, and sometimes I post a bit too many one-liners, but why no pressure on VE? Why the odd single-minded attack on me? He wasn't attacking "spam", he was attacking "wade fell" and the fact that he unleashed a mountain of quotes when he wanted to make the thread shorter, and he proceeded to not-contribute because he was too busy being "mad", is not something we can simply discount like that. I play the game to play the game. I play the game to win the game. I don't play the game to try to win by having my opponents defeated on a technicality. I play this game with integrity. Regardless of my alignment, I would never, ever try to get someone modkilled to help achieve my in game win condition. I also never tried to get you modkilled. I asked you to stop spamming multiple times and you proceeded to taunt me by posting 4 times in a row. I told you to shut the fuck up, and you post another 3 times in a row. I told the MOD that I am not playing in a game that gets destroyed by spam and to tell you to stop or I'd just quit playing. At no point did I ever ask for you to get modkilled, but you are literally the reason I stopped playing this game and had I known you were in this game under an alias I wouldn't have joined. However, since I did join I intend on playing the game out as a courtesy to the host. On that note, stop disrespecting the host. He is performing a service for us and I'm sure also has real life obligations. If you have issues take it up post game in the banlist or elsewhere. What you shouldn't do is go on a tangent multiple times in the thread about the MOD which is just incredibly rude and inconsiderate. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
For fucks sake. I already explained to you how to not keep fucking up the same exact way. Get two browsers and have one set for blazing hand and the other for Wade Fall. The one that is Wade Fall you disable everything on the side bar that is not MAFIA. You don't open mafia in the other browser at all. I have been doing this all game and never have I come close to posting under my other account. Stop being fucking lazy and be more aware. Maybe if you used the preview feature this wouldn't be a god damn problem. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 20 2013 08:54 kitaman27 wrote: Finally have some spare time. I'll respond to a couple relavent issues, but first I wanted to get out a post on one of my strongest scum reads. I may have a second post about another player I'm suspicious of, depending on how much time I have. WaveofShadow The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions. Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following: This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself? It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not. DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure. Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement. In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered. These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him. Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses. Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he would make an excellent lynch today. This case needs way more attention. I actually remember reading that last post about him needing to appear less scummy...you know as town! and just thinking how it smelled so hard of scum. I can't remember why I didn't follow up on it though. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 20 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote: Well I read it right now but frankly I developed the feeling he is town, I find others way scummier than him and WoS is a newbie so I understand him being defensive, dunno why he rides so much on not knowing how to metaread though. + Show Spoiler + It's a guy who says these things to a guy who asks questions to a claimed veteran. Kita don't you feel my Zarepath, GK and cosmicomics cases are good? I feel they are the strongest ones and I will likely not let go of those reads. I still have 2 wildcards currently occupied by Layabout and BH but TPS and glurio would fit in there too. I think you might be a bit biased in your assessment of your cases. I find Kita's case to be exceptionally strong. You have to keep in mind what the goals are behind a post. What WoS is doing is a typical example of inexperienced scum and Kita illustrated it very well. He wants to be non confrontational and but also doesn't do anything towards town goals. It's that subconscious fear that every mafia player has to get over when the get a red role. You know you are scum, and you feel like everything you see is going to get scrutinized, but you can't say anything and you can't form your own cases because everyone else is town so any case you make you feel would be inherently suspicious. So you end up in this weird state where you are too scared to make your own bullshit case, but need to fake some level of contribution. The end result is the analysis that Kita gave. A skilled scum player learns to take a persons words and use them out of context knowing way too many people will just believe the context you put them in and create a case on someone that most other townies could feasibly get behind. The latter example is what I felt that Wade Fell was doing. However, I haven't done a full analysis on him to view what his motivations are behind his actions. Since it would be taken as OMGUS I preferred if Ace or Kita stepped up and lent a hand since I trust their skill in analyzing the situation and seeing if they agree or disagree with me. I could very well be letting my bias get the way which is why I wanted the help of someone else. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 20 2013 23:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Apparently so? There is a circumstance where I think this may not be true since again, my PM says nothing about alignment, but my rolecheck result surprised me. To elaborate on this, since it's probably relevant. He got my role as "Fool" and one fool has already flipped so that must of struck him as odd. I'm still on page 79 so I have a bit to catch up on. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
It is possible that your win condition will change at some point during the game. If this event would infuriate you, do not sign up. Measures have been taken to make sure that if this happens, your play should not have to change very much. Try to see it as a new challenge. It would be in your best interest to PM me questions whenever you have them, no matter how trivial they may seem. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
First things first on WoS. In retrospect it makes sense. Kita's case fitting a red could easily have also hit a DT who was laying low. Combine that with his role check and the logical chain of events explaining his check I'm inclined to agree. I admit my bias is a bit obvious on this one because he checked me and I obviously know he is right. One thing I really want to stress about the claim is how everything came together where at a point it would of been complete suicide for mafia to try to continue pushing WoS. The second and probably more interesting situation is VisceraEyes. His claim was stupid, his actions in the posted QT were also really stupid and scummy. However on that note, his actions are too retarded for such an experienced player to post a log of himself actually becoming third party and committing suicide. The speculation about how and when he could/will become third party is worth talking about but lets face facts. If VE had actually become third party before that conversation was over he would never have posted the logs because under no circumstance could it help his (new) win condition. Could VE be converted in the night? Possibly. At that point we can deal with him, but I find it very strange that The Mirror would ask if he would want to join as opposed to just directly converting him which would be extremely reckless to do unless he had no choice. It would be better to Mason --> Convert to avoid the exact scenario we are facing where the hidden third party is no longer hidden. Now let's get down to how all of this implicates Ace as scum. I'm aware there is a post or two on this topic already but I want to outline my own reasoning and explain how I view the case on Ace. There are a few minor things that bugged me about Ace during his first few posts but what really got me was when he actually starting talking about situations. The way Ace molded arguments and acted in the thread showed an exceedingly anti town agenda in my opinion. On March 21 2013 00:27 Ace wrote: zarepath I think this is a scenario of someone playing badly as Town rather than a Scum screwing up the claim. Unless Wos is running some kind of gamble here, he just looks like someone silly /newbie enough to put his own survival over winning as a part of the Town. I feel like from the last few pages we have mostly pro-Town players arguing over trivial stuff. We should start looking at the people on WoS's wagon, especially if you believe he is innocent. I would cross-check that with anyone who tried to push keirathi before his/her death at night and the GreyMist lynch. that being said was GreyMist town? the way it's written is ambiguous. This first post comes right after WoS initiates his role cop claim. Ace wants us to look at the WoS band wagon and analyze those players hard. If we remember how the lynch train started up on WoS it was a bunch of votes very very quickly. The case on WoS was very convincing and without his claim and evidence he would surely be dead. The mafia literally did not need to be on his wagon at all because town was all over that. The mafia at that point could easily slow play this and figure out the effective way to scapegoat and lynch townies for the next cycle knowing this entire cycle would be wasted by a unanimous vote on WoS. If you could see all of this from a scum perspective it's easy to see how you would know that none/few of your team are on the WoS and you can send the town on a wild goose chase wasting more time. This is a very strong play, but I believe makes it scummy is that he is heavily implying that those on the WoS are likely to be scum starting it up, when the truth is the case was very good and many many town jumped aboard very fast which created an excellent situation for mafia to capitalize on. The town in this situation should realize that the WoS wagon is not as much lynch bait as you would think at first glance given the situation around the votes and the speed in which the wagon picked up. Dare I say there wouldn't of even been enough time for mafia to coordinate starting up that wagon. On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote: your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party. Stop being ridiculous. On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote: I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote: Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. The claim was stupid and we can acknowledge that. It is very very tempting to go HAM as fuck on VE for something so stupid and I was even inclined to do so myself for a bit. But the way this devolves into functionally being a policy lynch for Ace is a bit meh. I know by the end of the game VE will probably have to die but if we analyze the situation it just does not make sense for him to have posted the logs at all if he was at the time third party. This is super easy to jump on because you have a dumb quote that paints VE really poorly. By itself I would think nothing of Ace doing this since I would expect it from him. One thing that makes Ace a good mafia player is an attempt at consistency in regards to lynching which allows him to utilize that on both town and mafia to push his agenda with only a moderate amount of manipulation. The key with this is to find that manipulation of the scenario and figure out what the agenda behind that manipulation is. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote: Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months. Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote: We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb. But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand. I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz. I'm going to start with the obvious here. Note the contradiction. "JUST FUCKING VOTE VE, FUCK EVERYONE ELSE" "OBVIOUSLY WE ARE STILL LOOKING AT OTHER CANDIDATES!" The VE case and scenario was never as cut and dry as Ace attempted to make it seem with these posts among a few others. VE is not, and only might become a thread to town. Currently we can objectively say he is less of a thread. From a town standpoint it isn't necessarily bad to get rid of VE right now but it is definitely not amazing for us. VE isn't playing too well, he might be/become third party later in the game. But let's look at what it's not. VE is not scum. Scum needs to outnumber both town and third party so getting either lynched benefits them hugely because its one of them off the chopping block. This is a fact. To further drive this home Ace actively trying to turn this into a steamroll by quashing all other discussion and making VE the only person to get voted on. Stifling discussion and focusing conversation and votes on one person helps the mafia because it stifles discussion and limits the amount of information we can get from the entire day. So with this move Ace is trying to coax a mislynch, and fuck up an entire day of information by stifling town information. This sets scum up for a very powerful day 3 allowing them more kills and giving the town less information while simultaneously eliminating another thread to the mafia. Win-Fucking-Win. To conclude my case let's use one of his more recent posts. On March 21 2013 08:17 Ace wrote: VE look at this from our perspective: You botched your Vet claim as no one is going to claim Veteran under 0 pressure intstead of just saying they took a hit. Even if it's your "meta" - you are aware of it, and know some people here are also. So it would be bad news to claim that. Second, the 3p thing. You said you lied about accepting his invitation...and posted it in the thread thereby nullfying the purpose of lying. I mean, are you thinking about what we see here? Based on your logs the 3p is going to get stronger once you're in. We really have to lynch you at this point. Doesn't matter that 3p may not be strong now. An anti-town player that can become stronger down the line needs to be dealt with. So for the last time THINK about this from our perspective and see why you have to be lynched. Those 2 stunts you pulled just don't paint you as town. I also hope you step your game up in the future and stop doing silly shit like roleclaiming just because. This is a damn near policy lynch because of your past behavior. It's a policy lynch, and it's one you have carefully and continue to manipulate in favor of the mafia. The way you have been directing/conducting the town Benefits the mafia first, and the town a far and distant second. ##Vote: Ace | ||
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On March 21 2013 15:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Huh. TPS's post strikes a chord with me much more than Wriggle's does (not to mention confirmed townie doesn't hurt) as I never seem to remember to think of things from a scum perspective, though admittedly that would be hard for me because in games now I haven't rolled scum. What Wriggles did and now TPS makes me wonder about the spammy meta that seems to be present in every mafia game I've played. Were posting in the manner that TPS and Wriggle did the norm at on point in time? Huge, overall well put-together, consolidated cases? TPS can we expect more of this from you (if you survive the night, sorry!)? I know we actually have a shot at getting GK lynched now but damn, TPS. At one point in time the longest game on this forum was 200 pages. It was a 100 player game that lasts months. There was a beautiful point in time where yes, the norm was long, well thought out posts. | ||
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If someone wants to kill Wade tonight I'd be the happiest person. I'm a bit tired from work and have to get up early so I probably won't be around much until tomorrow night which is about 20 hours from now. I feel bad for my inactivity and inability to get more reads so tomorrow I will bring forth at least one scum case during the day for a lynch and another for a vigilante/the next day. We are in bad shape right now, but we need to pull together, consolidate posts and do some fucking analysis and we can right our little townie ship and pull through. | ||
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I would highly recommend that even if we are going to lynch wiggles that everyone else starts looking into other players and trying to establish reads while posting other major scum cases. This is going to be really important if we intend on getting literally any information from today. If it goes as it has been where people can just bus a vote onto wiggles with literally no explanation then there is no way to hold people accountable for their actions or thoughts. This is an extremely bad situation for town regardless of wiggles alignment. On that note I want to apologize. I thought I was going to be home 5 hours ago but I got caught up doing something and got home at 2AM. I'm going to set my alarm early and try to get some conversation going before I head to work for the night. I would even call out tomorrow to make sure we can make something happen if I wasn't getting a raise tomorrow | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Apparently so? There is a circumstance where I think this may not be true since again, my PM says nothing about alignment, but my rolecheck result surprised me. He was surprised because I came back as The Fool even though one The Fool had already flipped. | ||
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On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote: vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". Why did you know there were masons before anyone else did? Hey LayAbout, On March 20 2013 01:44 layabout wrote: Since then Keir flipped and DarthPunk made the point that we were probably on the wrong track. Keir thought zare was town and i am willing to give hm the benefit of the doubt. It's also worth realising that mason roles ARE ptobably balanced between town and mafia but maybe with more on town's side, since grey is probably not the only town mason since he could only mason 1 person then kill them. I am not defending BH, your push on him based on qt's (unlike most of what you have done so far) was borderline retarded. Can't say much more. Why do you seem to know more about the set up than other people in the game? | ||
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My apathy caused by certain players this game combined with me actually being really busy the last couple of days lead to me playing an extremely lackluster game. I really did intend on delivering more and better analysis but I just didn't have the time to do it the last few days. | ||
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On March 27 2013 13:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Wow, so TPS just voted Layabout without even posting in here. I'm so sorry I checked him guys, I wish we had mislynched him instead of someone actually useful. I voted and then I posted. I will admit it's my own fault for signing up for a game and not realizing the true reason I stopped playing mafia. This disgusting spammy play style that developed that just ruins games if you can't be on literally 24/7. | ||
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On March 27 2013 13:57 WaveofShadow wrote: + Show Spoiler + TPS do you plan on revealing yourself at any point during the game or postgame? Unrelated really because I already asked you this in an earlier post, but this 'spammy playstyle' is all I've known and I've never heard anyone else complain about it before now. I see where it creates problems especially for people who can't be available a lot, but there have been quite a few players who haven't done much this game and written just a few long posts/cases per day and still been somewhat effective (ie You/Wriggles getting Ace lynched. 'Effective being you accomplished that goal, to what ends in your case we don't know for sure of course). I just don't see how it's possible in a huge game like this to post less and still be effectively arguing a case, especially when the action is extremely heavy like right now. Maybe you're just referring to spam-posting when there's nothing else going on? In which I'd say I'm not sure that even really effects anything since those posts are mostly spam and can be skipped in a filter...but I digress. TPS can you give us a little more to go on before you disappear? Any other scumreads and why? I don't plan on revealing anything. Only maybe 2-3 people actually know who I am on this account and I intend on leaving it that way. There used to be a point in time where most players would put more thought into the huge majority of posts. You still had players like Kenpachi who sign up and do little/nothing, but they were in the huge minority. I will say certain players devolved the game into what it is now. I guess for some people it can still be fun, but I just can't bear to read 120 pages of bullshit and most other people can't either. There is players that just post, and post, and post without any real thought you have pages where at best you can look for some stupid slip among 30 posts which is just boring. I'm not going to pretend I was ever super good, or even that I am super good, because on my best day I am still mediocre. I used to be able to actually read games and enjoy myself then post constructively from day one and get reads on all the players. Now I look at someone like BH's filter and while I get a general vibe of their play from reading the game I see a 12, 15, 20 page filter filled with shit and I just can't bring myself to spend my leisure time delving into something I completely despise. As for scumreads, I don't really have anything besides kneejerks. I remember reading Wiggles as town at some point, and the same for kita. I've read the game and am still current but I haven't truly analyzed the game for the last 70 pages. I remember meaning to look into Geript/LayAbout for probably around 3-5 actual days (not game days) now and just not having the time due to personal constraints. | ||
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I feel like I had another thing but my mind is drawing blanks, so I'm off to bed. | ||
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On March 18 2013 10:43 Wade Fell wrote: I don't like how Zarepath has been posting recently. His initial fearless posting (link)(link), however ill-advised it may have been, seemed to me to be townie. That plus my personal history with geript has led me to go soft on the two of them. I don't like that zarepath has become apologetic (link) and reserved (link), and his posting has gone down so much as the pressure has ramped up. That being said, his initial townlike recklessness and unthinkingness in posting resonates with me. His posting pattern tells me "town player who has no clue what he's doing" because of his initial earnestness. I will give him a second chance. GreYMisT, on the other hand, does not deserve another chance. GK already went over the initial scumminess in GreYMisT's entry into the game; the active lurking (link), the "trap" that (link) even viewed in the best possible light, is a noncase and a vote-threat that doesn't directly mean anything. "I was a potential mislynch, so the guy who pushed me is scum" is not a reasonable case, and if GreYMisT were like Grush or something I'd be like "wow Grush is Grush" but GM is in fact GM and not Grush. He opposed my meta read on GK (link) saying "that's just how GK thinks" without actually referencing a game of GK playing scum and acting like this. He made a meta read not based on GK's scum meta, but on... well, his word. I've exetensively provided reasoning for why GK is playing to his town and not scum meta, and everyone who's actually clicked through on my links has at least in part agreed with me. So what's with GreYMisT? He acts like he has a meta read on GK of "GK always posts like this as town or scum" but has NO EVIDENCE. He admits GK's actions could be town or scum (link) and after asserting that GK's actions are null, says he still wants to lynch GK (link) (link) only later supplementing his so-called "case" on GK with a one-liner (link) that actually literally refuses to engage with GK's defense. GreYMisT has slipped up badly-- he's accidentally let us peek behind the curtain at the man who doesn't think GK is scum but wants to lynch him anyways, the man who claims to have a meta read on GK but won't share details and has opted out of the town discourse as a result of his fixation on GK. If GreYMisT were really after GK, and REALLY had something to say about my meta defense of GK, He'd say it. He'd have said it. He'd have shouted it to the heavens, linked and quoted the evidence, and bitch-slapped me like the young punk I am. GreYMisT has blinked, multiple times, because his town play is interfering with his ability push a mislynch as scum. He is scum, and GK is town. We all know this to be true. ##unvote ##vote GreYMisT If you would all direct yourself to the bolded. Zarepath is scum. This is a classic "Hold off on X for now" and then redirecting the lynch. I just spent an hour comparing timestamps and if you look closely it lines up with when the lynch train got diverted off Zare when he was surely about to die. A scum BH would have literally no incentive to soft protect Zare from being a Day 1 lynch. He followed it up by hard pushing greymist. I know poor little BH can't respond, but it's going to give me immense satisfaction by spending the entire game day using his own posts to rape his entire scum team. | ||
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On March 30 2013 01:42 Kenpachi wrote: nice. you isolated the piece of art for me. I really do like that you tunneled the shit out of all my posts to make them look scummy. Also, you seriously just spearheaded into all my post with no context whatsoever. im done. So let me get this straight. You proceed to post nothing of substance and skirt by all game posting one liners and when we are at lylo and someone calls you out for this bullshit you decide to ALT+F4 the game? douchebag. | ||
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I have a list of people, a list of people I believe likely to be scum. This list is comprised of 4 individuals with one alternate. I have another list of 5 people I am certain are town. The last individual is the alternate. I spent roughly 6 hours last night combing through the whole thread and this is the culmination of my work. You are not on the town list. So give me a reason why you think you wouldn't be on the mafia list? | ||
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On March 30 2013 03:03 Kenpachi wrote: lol I'm not surprised because this town is literally in the shitters. I'm fairly confident you and Zarepath aren't mafia but I have no idea how you're certain about anyone else at this point. Because I spent hours going over this game yesterday. It was tough picking out a mafia team and a lot of it had to do with excluding people from the possibility of being mafia. Like I said, you don't post shit so I have very little to work with. You give me no evidence to clear you, and give me nothing truly specific I can think of off the top of my head to denounce you as scum. Meaning, you are likely scum just floating by. On March 30 2013 03:04 Kenpachi wrote: Also if I'm not on the town list, then I'm inclined to believe you're full of shit and need to review your work again And what the fuck have you done this game to dismiss my reads? I haven't seen you do anything. If I think you are scum I'd rather kill you sooner than later because with the way you play (or lack of playing) it's hard to get a read, and I'd rather not hinge on giving you more time to do dick all then wasting a few day cycles and being right/wrong on you then. I might as well kill you sooner and spare myself the pain of wasting more time hoping you do something that indicates your affiliation, because if I'm going to lose by lynching you I'd rather do it sooner than later and save some time. | ||
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kita, glurio, layabout, kenpachi scum team. Zarepath possible alternate for scum. ryu, wave of shadow, geript, DYS, me town Of the players listed blazinghand ignores and never references any of the 4 players listed in red. Zarepath gets soft defended by BH day 1 then shortly after that amidst a flurry of activity the votes get switched off Zare and end up on Greymist. Me and WoS are town determined by DT claim. Understandably some of you won't know our alignment as well as I do but I believe his claim made sense. DYS/Ryu both had specific posts I viewed not being very likely or possible to come from a mafia. They both also had not that scummy of post history. Glurio can't hold a thought and just keeps jumping around on to whatever seems good at the time. He said we need to lynch LayAbout then just immediately jumps ship and goes off on how we should lynch Kita upon never actually saying anything about Kita up until that point. Kenpachi I have elaborated on. Kita is not anywhere near as active as he should be and although his posts make sense for the most part I can't help but feel he can't be town because there is no reason he should be alive at this point. LayAbout would probably be my alternate for Zarepath. BH also never acknowledged LayAbout in any of his posts combined with LayAbout looking generally scummy. Today I'd probably be most comfortable with killing either Glurio or Kenpachi. I don't particularly care which. | ||
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On March 30 2013 10:40 kitaman27 wrote: I don't recall. I probably just missed the request since its not like I would purposely ignore something if asked. Day two I was mostly focused on WoS with my big case and then Wiggles after the dt claim. Generally I let early blue claims fix themselves with the night hits and take another look if they're still around latter. BH hadn't really caught my attention while I was looking elsewhere. The one thing that is bugging me is that how few people are willing to defend glurio, yet there are only a couple votes on him. Why didn't he catch your attention? He was blatantly lying and acting like a dipshit the whole game. | ||
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On March 30 2013 11:47 layabout wrote: As i already said, i was converted on day. I was masoned during day1 and at the start of day2 the qt died and i got converted. Guys if we do not consolidate then WE WILL LOSE Toadya we should be lynching kitaman27. Why is that you may ask? Well if you were reading the the thread you would not need to ask this. Case UNO: Mr. Wiggles dying words: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2013 02:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: People to really watch out for: Kitaman: Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum: He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum. Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content. I agree that I need to die. I am a liability in late game because I've been playing badly and my scum reads have been shit so far. I need to get shot though, not lynched, because a lynch on me is wasted as I have no probability of flipping scum. I thought someone might shoot me Night 2, but no one did. I don't like the way the Day has gone so far, because everyone is sitting on their hands and not talking because they think I'm scum. I find that pretty dumb, because you're basically giving mafia a free round of kills. If you're going to lynch me, leave your vote on me, but at least talk about who else you think is scum, because I am going to flip green. If you don't talk, you're completely wasting your time. I'm going to vote Cosmicomics because he is the only alternative wagon to me, and I read him as more likely to be scum than town. If I end up getting lynched, I apologize for my poor reads, and want to say, good luck, and have fun. Case two: Hold on cosmic was 3p how can we trust him? Well my skeptic read, cosmic may have wanted to save his own skin but that does not change the fact that he didn't know the scumteam and his case on kitaman carries considerable merit: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: The kitaman27 case. kitaman27 is a seasoned mafia vet and is capable of playing very well as either alignment. You won't catch him with "scum slips" or anything blatant like that. You need to look at deeper motives and really look at context to see subtle mafia agenda actions. First is his big case on WaveofShadow D2. If you reread how D2 unfolded, you would have noticed that there was a reasonable amount of suspicion and attention on Wade Fell as he garnered several votes. You have to watch the timing. kitaman27's case comes in at a timing to shift the attention off the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes interaction entirely, by offering a new prospective lynch target, namely WaveofShadow. His follow up post addressing the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes reveals the mafia agenda. It's very subtle isn't it? He shifts attention away from the whole VisceraEyes / Wade Fell by "letting mafia deal with them". He implants the idea into town that it is very "silly" to look into these two suspects, and that the night actions will resolve the whole issue. The bolded part shows his intent to push the focus away. So many other things to look at? Why is the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes situation something not worth looking at / trying to figure out? Why does he work to take not only his attention, but the rest of town's away from the issue onto a new topic in WaveofShadow? This is mafia misdirection at it's finest. You don't have to come into the thread and take bold stances you will be accountable for later on. All you have to do is evade the issue entirely and get people to focus on something else. No one can hold you accountable. This is further supported in the way that he really works to drive this case home. + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 09:39 kitaman27 wrote: Being defensive is a newbie scum trait, so I don't think that really plays much of a part. This is his 5th or 6th game though, so he should be more than capable of pushing a case. In one of his early posts he mentions how he would rather not provide a scum read until he is prepared to develop a strong case. It's 100+ hours and 60ish pages into the game and he still hasn't done so. On March 20 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: I write up a case against you and your response is that you've never lied? Where am I calling you a liar? My case is that you show no interest in pushing a lynch. Even with this post, you ask "who are the lynch targets"? A town player decides a lynch target and pushes it on other players. A mafia player looks at the bandwagons and selects his favorite. I don't need another player to defend you. I'd like a response from yourself on the issues I mentioned. On March 20 2013 09:48 kitaman27 wrote: This is exactly what I'm referring to. Just minutes earlier you posted about how you wanted to know who where the lynch candidates in order to determine who to look at. Now you're voting Wiggles with a one line explanation. You clearly couldn't have taken the time to read through the filters of the players you just asked about. So why is it that you are voting based on town sentiment, rather than finding a player that you believe is scum and explaining to everyone why you believe this is the case. On March 20 2013 10:06 kitaman27 wrote: I might have to call you a liar now. Your explanation on the DarthPunk vote was: Your explanation on the GreYMisT vote was larger, but at that point you were preaching to the choir, as you were the 12th person on him. There was nobody to convince at that point. And here is your explanation of the wiggles vote, aided by a few other one liners about how he is lazy. Of course I would like you to go into further detail. Calling yourself town doesn't convince other players that you are town. Posting a case and pushing a lynch is what does that. I spent 2 hours reading the thread and another hour on my case against you. You look like you've sent 3 minutes deciding who to jump on. On March 20 2013 10:16 kitaman27 wrote: Since I made it pretty clear what I thought about his alignment, I'd be much more interested listening to what you had to say, rather than justifying it for you. Do you have a mafia read on Wave? On March 20 2013 10:26 kitaman27 wrote: How is your alignment in past games relevant at all? Look at how much effort he puts into getting everyone to focus on this lynch. Now, let's do a comparison case to the glurio case. Absolutely no follow up. No effort into convincing people, no effort to get opinions out of people, no effort to push the wagon. What's the difference? There isn't a pressing need to take attention off of a teammate like in the case of Wade Fell. There is only the need to maintain the image of scumhunting. Now, let's look further into his glurio read. If you read D2 carefully, you would notice that glurio posted a case on WaveofShadow maybe 3 hours earlier than kitaman27's case. Pull up the cases side by side and compare. What do you notice? They both use very similar bodies of evidence and similar reasoning. The only difference is that kitaman27's case has more paragraphs and quotes and formatting. But the essence is the same. Yet this is kitaman27's #2 scum read. Think about it. If someone makes a case using the same body of evidence and same type of reasoning before you present your own case, wouldn't that give you serious pause before thinking they are scum? Given how vehemently kitaman27 pushed the WaveofShadow case, it must mean that he felt that the case was really good, and that since only glurio picked up on it before anyone else, that glurio was thinking along the same lines. I.e. he was thinking like town. But nope. kitaman27 has glurio at #2 scum read. Not only that, but as glurio perceptively points out kitaman27 isn't thinking holistically about the game at all, despite telling everyone that that is exactly what he has been doing. kitaman27 has been subtly working behind the sense to further mafia agenda and his inconsistencies and timings betray himself. To close I would draw attention to Mr. Wiggles' posts where he notes kitaman27's passive play and apathy, which serves to further highlight how out of place his intense WaveofShadow wagon push is. kitaman27 is the scum mastermind who has been manipulating town from behind the scenes. kitaman27 is the lynch for today. Vote: kitaman27 Yesterday kitaman27 was pushing for a cosmic lynch and pre-claim he may have been justified in doing so. However post-claim kitaman deliberately ignores the consequences of the claim, which there was plenty of evidence to support and very few reasons to doubt. Yesterday mafia benefitted the most from the lynch and kitman27 was aware of this but chose to push their agenda. Why? Well he is mafia ##vote kitaman27 We are lynching Glurio. Kita will get lynched later. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
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ThePeashooter
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And I don't believe you will try. I told you how to not triple post, how to not keep posting on your BlazingHand account and you ignored me multiple times and proceeded to triple post. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 30 2013 17:17 RyuSuzaku wrote: it's not an illegitimate strategy at all. He was scum, his interest is in getting town disorganised. Posting a lot accomplishes this and nothing he did broke any rules. If you don't like players who do that, make a policy to lynch or pressure them when they do it, and punish them for it. Trust me when I say you will probably discourage townies from contributing, and it'll probably backfire. You have to be good enough to realize when a player needs to be ignored/lynched for posting too much. It's not a legitimate strategy. It's posting something that should of been in one post in 5 posts just for the sake of making the game unplayable. That isn't legitimately trying to win. You are trying to make it so its too much effort/work for players to read you/the thread by artificial means. He probably had 5x the posts I had and maybe 2x the words. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 30 2013 17:25 geript wrote: Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. Personally, I don't see why he even has a smurf account considering how bad he is at using it and it's not like his smurf is a secret. Either way, I would love to have some constructive criticism on my play. This is the other thing I want to know. Why do you even bother using a second account if you let everyone know who you are? What is the point? | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
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On March 30 2013 17:27 WaveofShadow wrote: WBG was smurfing this game? Who was he? Any specific critiques of my terrible play anyone has? I couldn't make a read this game to save my life and I apparently have no idea how to even go about doing it..... The only mafia smurf we don't know. He would have to be RyuSuzaku. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 30 2013 17:26 Blazinghand wrote: Also, and I'm gonna be 100% clear here, I DO access Wade Fell from chrome and Blazinghand from Firefox, and I have done this for all my smurfs. I'm actually dumb enough that I forget what browser I'm using. I can't go saying this in the thread during the game though because nobody will believe me. EDIT: And if you don't believe in my good faith, I am sorry for having ruined my reputation in your eyes. There's nothing then that I can say at this point-- you don't believe I'll try, and don't trust my word, even outside the game. I'm sorry you feel that way, and perhaps in time my play in future games will convince you otherwise. There is nothing more I can say. If you just said that instead of shirking it off I would of been considerably less annoyed. But still, why do you have a smurf that everyone knows? What's the point in even using it? | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
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On March 30 2013 17:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote: thepeashooter = RoL RyuSuzaku = WBG cosmicomics = slo0sh What the fuck helvetica? Did I say to reveal my smurf? | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
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On March 30 2013 18:04 Ace wrote: smh that meta shit made re-reading this a fucking pain. half the finger pointing was "yo you aint playin to your meta - SCUM!". I seriously hate meta-analysis. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 30 2013 22:53 Mocsta wrote: Im catching up and had to stop here. I assume its already been questioned but whatever, I complete abhor and detest this type of mentality. Let me remind you of your reaction to the Ace mislynch. I don't see a single point in that read where you show any remorse for securing a mislynch. All i see is a person who cares about having spent 1.5hours writing a bogus case. Get off your high horse. You did not lead a lynch on a single scum candidate. Your play this game was woeful and rarely achieved any of the detailed analysis you berated others for not distributing.. you are one of the last people I am going to listen to in regards to what can be considered "optimal play." I like how you quoted "optimal play" as if I ever said something was optimal, or that I somehow represented optimal play. I never made such a claim. Mistakes happen. I'm not going to focus on apologizing for fucking something up. It wasn't just me, we all did it. Apologizing does nothing. If I remember correctly I was specifically responding on the issue of spam. It wasn't a brag, it was a statement of fact and a reiteration of my previous points about spam. If most people put a few thoughtful posts into getting someone lynched and spammed a little less it would make the game better by increasing thread readability and therefore allowing more posts to be thoroughly analyzed by town. In contrast scum couldn't just write anything without repercussion because they would be more heavily scrutinized due to minimized post count. Thus I'd imagine both plays would elevate. What I have observed playing here for many years is that both the town and mafia skill has seemingly decreased as post counts increased. I think you abhor what I said simply because it was focused at people like you who ruin this game. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 31 2013 09:41 Ace wrote: Do I need to explain the VE case again? Because I think some of you are overthinking the situation when it's really simple. Stop being results oriented and be process oriented. There is no difference between 3rd party recruiter and Scum: they are both Anti-Town factions. I think the main point was that no one thought it significantly likely that VE was scum or 3P. Not that we didn't think they were bad. Where VE supposedly joined 3P it would of been really odd for him to ever say anything about it regardless of what his actual posts in the QT said. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 31 2013 10:52 Ace wrote: Then there's a problem with the game if that is allowed. Players don't get to turn down recruitment. VE "being" Town after being talked to/recruited by 3rd party recruiter should be impossible. I will say I was curious to how this role worked. I know it was spoken about a bit, but why didn't LayAbout just tell CC the whole scum team and then tell the town 3 of the scum team, and then let CC recruit another and give him the same mission for when the mafia killed LayAbout? CC just needed to survive and his win was not mutually exclusive and could be achieved alongside the town/mafia. Furthermore, since LayAbout could be recruited and then turned back into scum if CC died he has incentive to not work to his "new" win condition. His win condition wasn't permanent and if scum was winning he just needed to kill CC and he would go back to his winning team. I would say he didn't have so much a new win condition as he did a temporary change in condition that gave him the option to switch if he wanted to. The role seemed really poorly designed. Was there a rule against LayAbout telling CC the whole mafia scum team, and if there was such a rule then it's even dumber since now you force LayAbout to play unnaturally and avoid the easiest route to his win condition which was just outing the whole scum team to CC and having him just Mason random town players and have them lynch the remaining mafia team until end game. Last thing I was curios about was if a recruited mafia still counts towards the mafia KP. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
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ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 31 2013 12:37 Blazinghand wrote: I remember there was once an 80-person game (that I was only in briefly before it fell apart) and there were several roles called "lurker vigis" which could fire a bullet to shoot a lurker. It worked pretty poorly, but it was a fine idea. I don't think posting restrictions are the best of ideas, just because it changes the way the game works. That being said, I think the real way to stop spam is the same as the real way to stop lurking: consider it a scumtell and lynch people who do it. Obviously it's not possible for a single person to enforce this, but if enough people believe it, it will become true. And FWIW a certain level of spam probably IS a scumtell. It is anti-town to get into long arguments with everyone for no reason and derail all the useful lynches. Calling players out for this and threatening to lynch them will 1) discourage scum from doing it and 2) discourage town from doing it which could be good. That was Real Time Mafia and it was hilarious. The mafia got GG'd day 2 or 3 due to the obscene KP I gave to town. I really expected the town to kill themselves with it but they hit mafia almost every time. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 31 2013 12:39 RyuSuzaku wrote: I'm gonna call out RoL on the spamming = illegitimate strategy bullshit because his go-to strategy as scum is to lurk and not post until absolutely necessary to avoid a modkill. If anything, THAT is an illegitimate strategy, given that you purposely only post to avoid a modkill. I myself would strongly consider replacing or modkilling you for that type of strategy in one of my games, because my rules explicitly state that trying to skirt an inactivity modkill will result in one. Clearly the host this game did not have a problem with spam, otherwise people would have been warned for it. (and if they were, I am not aware of it). Calling it an illegitimate strategy is honestly self-deceptive, almost like a cop-out for not playing well. You knew me at a different time. I used to post a lot and play a lot regardless of alignment. This is what I absolutely hated and why I stopped playing. I was busy with school/work/gf and didn't have the time to contribute as much as I used to be able to. I'd look at the thread and there would be 50 pages for me to read and I straight up didn't have time. It had nothing to do with me being scum but somehow everyone assumed it did. I did it as town too and kept getting lynched D3 and had my ass rode until I died for like 5 games straight. I couldn't put in the time because of how much mafia games have changed over the years. That's why I stopped playing and that's why I played this game on a smurf. I didn't feel like getting typed into playing in a specific way based on literally no reasoning. My life and responsibilities have changed since I started playing mafia and so has the current meta of the game itself. With both attributes changing drastically I was unable to play in the same way I used to. It has nothing to do with me flipping scum. Take a look at Insane Mafia, or some of my other games as scum from years ago. I had no issue posting a lot and staying active with the thread. It's just that times have changed. | ||
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
On March 31 2013 14:39 Keirathi wrote: Someone asked and DrH told them that town had to eliminate all non-town. Yeah I remembered reading that but couldn't find it anywhere. | ||
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