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DoYouHas
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DoYouHas
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I think it is more likely that geript would have stayed with his RNG lynching if he was scum than if he was town. There is virtually no risk of actually lynching the person you random so this "he randomed his scumbuddy and abandoned ship" idea is pretty bad. After this he goes into setup speculation which is something that peashooter was already getting heat for (not something scum do). When challenged, he directly refers to the thing BH says is most scummy about peashooter (going to bed), and then follows suit. This doesn't strike me as a show of confidence in his innocence, this strikes me as actual confidence. Nothing geript has discussed so far has been constructive, but I don't think that makes him scum. I really like VE's SAST idea after thinking it over and I would love to apply once I am convinced that I can keep up the activity (lurking has been a problem for me in the past). But just so I am clear, the votes go towards the group's opinion, not VE's opinion, right? | ||
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On March 16 2013 17:23 sciberbia wrote: I've got some stuff to say about geript The first possibly important thing I noticed in the thread. The phrasing of the first sentence as a question instead of a statement seems a bit odd to me. It's like he's saying "Would you find this explanation acceptable?" rather than "This is the explanation." Seems unnecessarily passive and ingratiating. This rubs me a bit the wrong way. Seems like a crummy reason to go to bed. People accuse you of being mafia so you go to bed? What? Also, seems like he's almost providing an 'excuse' to leave the thread. Overall, leaning scum on geript. I don't think it is especially likely that zarepath and geript are both scum. If zarepath and geript actually were scumbuddies, I think there is an excellent chance that geript would have either gone through with the RNG vote (with the knowledge that it is very unlikely to lead to a lynch and with the devious hope that town would later get confused by WIFOM), or just drop the RNG thing all-together. I don't really have a conclusion to this, Scib's other posts don't raise red flags for me and what I have is not enough to turn him scum. I just want to hear more from Scib. | ||
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On March 17 2013 07:02 TranceStorm wrote: 2 Questions: 1. What in particular do/did you like about VE's SAST idea? 2. Why do you feel the need to add in a note about lurking into your analysis? Also, who is BH that everyone seems to be referring to? 1. I really like the SAST idea because it forces the hand of mafia. If they don't try to become a part of the circle, you have a group of active townies committed to voting together, which is incredibly dangerous for scum. If they do try to become part of the circle, they run the risk of not influencing it enough and getting their votes tied to a larger voice of active townies. If they do manage to influence the circle enough to render it ineffective by either joining it or derailing it from the outside, you have forced multiple scum to be active, which gives us more to work with and puts them in the spotlight. 2. By bringing up that lurking is a problem for me (especially when I'm scum btw) I'm hoping that the rest of you will push me to post more. The desire to sit back and solve the question of who is mafia through analysis is a big problem in my play. It has repeatedly led me to tunneling and small post counts. BH = Blazinghand = Wade. | ||
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- My second read-through has me agreeing with Kita, Layabout, and MrWiggles' points against GK, that is where my vote is going if my opinion doesn't change after looking into the meta that BH brought up and after reading GK's promised case. - Greymist's lack of recent posting is disturbing. First he says: On March 16 2013 22:28 GreYMisT wrote: First off, fairly busy today, so I'll be more active in around 5 hours. But what does he actually post in his 'active period'? Considering the number of people that find him suspicious, i would think GM would be more inclined to post than he is showing. - I am also suspicious of Zarepath, Vivax, and Ryu. More on them later, I don't want to split my focus too much. | ||
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On a side note, I'm surprised that TranceStorm's travesty of a first post failed to catch any comments: On March 17 2013 06:34 TranceStorm wrote: It's pretty pointless to be looking at the differences between a player's mafia and town play on Day 1. On Day 1 there is absolutely no reason for mafia members to behave differently than town members! In short, mafia players behave exactly like town players on Day 1: they throw around a few accusations, they might speculate on the different roles available in the game, and they might throw around a few town reads as well. All of this is possible because there is no information available at all. Differences in 'play' arise in the following days when information is revealed and pressure is put on certain players (i.e. when they have to justify their voting decisions in previous rounds). A player's behavior changes as a mafia member when they see their teammates under significant pressure. That's when play analysis comes in, not right now. It's much better to ask people for their beliefs to serve as a record for later rounds to measure for inconsistencies and what not. | ||
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Right now I'm taking a break for food and TV. But when I come back from that my first order of business is to get my thoughts on zarepath out since that looks like it might get some traction. After that I will get my thoughts straight on GK and stop this 'maybe i will, maybe i won't' crap. | ||
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What I did learn from reading zarepath's filter is that he doesn't like people who townclaim, people who discuss the setup, and people who talk about policy (specifically SAST). Almost all of his suspicions so far (Coag exception) are people that have fallen into one of those categories. I'm waiting on zarepath to come out strongly for a lynch candidate and provide his own reasoning, something beyond shuffling the candidate into one of those categories. He almost got there with one of his more recent posts on GK, but backed off it and then left the thread. I agree with Scib's impression of zarepath's first post and how zarepath's dealing with TPS seems inconsistent. I'll be around for the next hour or so reviewing GK's meta before I go to bed, let's talk. ##Join: SAST | ||
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On March 17 2013 14:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Did you notice how he's suspicious of sandroba but agrees with sandroba that Grey is suspicious? Like if he were town you'd think he'd mention that fact and explain his thought process on being suspicious of both. Are you talking about GK or zare? | ||
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On March 17 2013 15:05 Wade Fell wrote: Almost as much of a waste of time as your setup speculation on Ve's role in a normal game Test actually made me paranoid for a bit with his speculation. DrH said he wanted to play with conversion mechanics and I thought that joining the group might be prerequisite or something. Clearly I've moved on from that. | ||
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On March 17 2013 15:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Why? What is the difference? He can only vote one of them. The difference is that scum want to be consistent in their reads, particularly when under pressure. Sandro's suspicion of GreY creates conflict in GK's reads because it is less likely that they are both scum (not guaranteed, but that is why I pointed out Ryu). Scum want consistency so that they can keep things straight and avoid scrutiny. Town care less about consistency and more about being right. Also, this was my initial response which is still relevant: On March 17 2013 14:44 DoYouHas wrote: I found it surprising, but not particularly scummy. Picking 2 people as your top scum reads (at least the ones he is most likely to vote) in spite of them being at odds with each other earlier in the thread is a bold move. It strikes me as the paranoia of a townie, not the calculated target of scum(yes, you are slowly winning me over BH/GK). | ||
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On March 17 2013 15:50 ThePeashooter wrote: Wadefall, consolidate your shit. I played one game of dota and somehow 80 fucking posts popped up and you are nearly a quarter of them. Nothing demotivates me more than a game that gets spammed to shit. I was really happy we weren't heading for a 100 page Day 1. You are just going to have to get over it. We are at a point where we can actively discuss the merits of cases and wagons instead of just hoping that a brilliantly written case will gather enough sheep to lynch scum. It's a good thing. | ||
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As for the feeling like my posts are 'storytelling' I'm not sure how to respond because it is pretty vague. Maybe you mean that I like to paint things I comment on with the motivation or perspective I think corresponds. If that is the case then I don't see what is so scummy. @Trance - You support lynching me, but until you actually get more involved in the thread or make a case with examples to refute, I feel no pressure from you. At least Vivax was trying to get people to look into/switch onto me. | ||
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Something that has been bothering me for a while now is how zarepath has been put on the back-burner. Similar to how people are dealing with Coag but with much less reason. With the exception of Vivax, nobody has really defending zare. It is like everyone took a look at the points against zare and said, "yeah, that does look bad, let's move on". Am I alone in thinking that it is suspicious that there was so little opposition to us pushing zare, yet it gained so little traction? Obviously some townies just prefer their own choice and are going to push it. But I can't shake the feeling that zare is getting pushed off the consideration table, not because he is a worse candidate, but because scum are invested in changing the focus. I know that above paragraph isn't super logical, it is my intuition. But when I pair it with the points made earlier by myself and scib I definitely want to lynch zarepath today. | ||
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This Town Ain't Big Enough VT NMMXXXVII VT NMMXXXVI VT And if you dig really far back you get his 1 scum game, which also happens to be the first game I played on TL as well. I don't know how well his scum meta would have held up as this game is more than a year old (Jan. 2012), and he has played a fair bit since. NMMIII Goon | ||
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On March 18 2013 11:12 GreYMisT wrote: Again, if I have to die so be it. the best I can do is say that I think goodkarma should be lynched. After GK I think waveofShadow should be looked into, followed by testsubject. These are my feelings at the moment. This martyr junk is really annoying. It is pure WIFOM bait and GreY has to know that. | ||
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On March 18 2013 11:43 sciberbia wrote: Kitaman, do you have an opinion on zarepath? Also DYH, did you find anything interesting in zarepath's meta? I guess I'll go make a votecount myself. Seems like we are between zarepath and greymist tho. I did find some interesting corroborating evidence in his meta, but I also ran into a some frustration in the form of his old scum game that I can't decide whether or not is a good heuristic. I can't really compare activity between his past games and this one because we know that he can't be as active on weekends, and that has cut down his post count for this day 1. What I looked at was tone. Hopeless, Scib, and I all separately took issue with the tone of zarepath's posts. Hopeless thought that he seemed like he was looking for things to say, stances to take. Scib thought that his heart wasn't in it, that he was producing generic pro-town advice to fake being town. I said that I felt like his scumhunting felt shallow, that he was shuffling players into his suspicions using silly categories. That kind of critique could not be made of the day1 posts of those 3 town games I linked earlier. In those games his tone is very active, even when he is uncertain (Clicky). Note that in that post his tone is completely different than what we have seen in this game, it looks like he isn't just commenting, he is participating. The one big thing I would draw your attention to in that post is that he states, "My reads are all very close to null at this point on everyone. ". At this point in that game he has even fewer solid reads than he has shown in this one. And yet, his tone is so incredibly superior. The frustration comes with his really old scum game. Some things fit: the posting of generic pro-town advice, the passive tone in a lot of his posts. Other things do not: the bold strokes of suggesting an rng lynch right off the bat, the hard defense of the day1 townie lynch, and the way he responds to slOosh's case. I can't decide whether or not to throw out this game because of it's age or to leave it in there and just have it be a non-alignment indicative piece of evidence. tl;dr - I think zarepath's meta supports him being scum this game mainly by analyzing tone. (PS. Please check me on all this, I don't want to be screwed by confirmation bias.) | ||
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On March 18 2013 12:21 geript wrote: Sidenote: how do you find the games someone's been in? Just by manually looking into all the games or is there another way? I go to their profile, click posts, then work back through them, any mafia title you find where the person posts more than 10-20 times they probably played in, just clicky and check the filter list. | ||
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- I am still confident in my zarepath read from day 1, but that has been rehashed enough already, and it seems fruitless to pursue that further until there is more content or until we get to day2. - WOS hadn't really caught my eye as particularly suspicious until he started responding to post-flip pressure. I found that particularly scummy (something I will get into in my next post). - Ryu deserves a good bit of consideration. Remember when BH was attacking TPS for his tunnel on Coag, an unproductive target, and thought that he was using that tunnel to avoid other topics/being constructive? Well that is exactly what Ryu did day1, and it is a scummy trait. He pointed out 'fishy-ness' in the interaction between Sandro and GreY, speculated that they might both be scum, and never moved on from there. He pushed Sandro until Sandro's afk was explained, then he made a case on GreY. A case that, while described by a few people as 'good', contained 2 blatant misrepresentations+ Show Spoiler [Misrepresentations] + Misrepresentation #1: At no point does GreY refer to his "gotcha" moment on GK as a trap. Someone else described it that way, and it stuck. As someone doing a PBPA on GreY, Ryu should have seen this, but he didn't. Instead he runs with this 'setting a trap' mentality as something scummy GreY did, when GreY never actually showed that behavior. Lazy case making. Misrepresentation #2: Ryu describes GreY's response to GK as "nothing more than OMGUS", which it absolutely wasn't. | ||
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On March 19 2013 03:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah Vivax I don't see how you're so certain you're getting lynched tomorrow. It's all WIFOM. If your reads are accurate then if they lynch you they risk exposing your reads as accurate. If they're not accurate they can lynch and try to make people think your reads are accurate. It's null. As for you asking absolutely everyone about all your 5 people, I really think you should be focusing; it's too much this early. One at a time. Like, which of the five do YOU feel we should be focused on today and why? Zarepath? Wowwy Wow Wow. WOS just revealed he knows Vivax is town. | ||
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On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: well, that sucks. I was pretty convinced GM was scum given how suspicious he was acting. Pretty disappointing play from him, especially given his incredibly strong role. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm town and I had completely valid reasons for attacking GM. 1. This is completely false. I did not vocalize any of my other reads because they were not as sure as greymist. The longer I looked at the interaction between greymist and sandroba, the more I became sure that greymist was scum. I chose to ignore sandroba because he was going to be replaced-there's not much reason to attack a person you know will not even be around, and whose scummy traits were probably not motivated by alignment to begin with. My vote was on sandroba for quite a while until the replacement was announced (though it's not in the voting thread because I was not aware of it) 2. Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it was a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" Given that he was expecting such a reaction, it's only reasonable to assume he was trying to trap a scum. So he "never" showed that behavior, eh? This is not a misrepresentation. This is you looking for something where nothing exists. 3. It was nothing more than OMGUS, unless you can find a better reason greymist had for attacking GK. None of his points were substantiated and I showed exactly why I think GK is town. This is convenient ignorance of what I posted. In fact, it's ignorance of almost everything that happened surrounding GK and GM. GM did not attack GK until GK showed suspicion of GM. That's textbook definition of OMGUS. 4. Lastly, how exactly is pushing a case and seeking consolidation on a chaotic day 1 scummy? If that's your definition of scummy, I fear to see your other reads. Sadly I can't tell whether you are saying these things as a scum trying to push responsibility for a mislynch, or as a townie who is just bad. I never assumed sandro to be town nor did I ever strongly feel him to be scum. I voted him to begin with to pressure him into explaining his reads. He obviously never did because he was afk the entire time. I ignored him after the replacement was announced. IIRC this was before the replacement was announced. I simply was surprised that a player would ignore sandro's accusation, given that he is widely accepted to be a very good town player. I misinterpreted the situation. Why are you cherry picking me? Are you scum? 1. - I am quite interested in what these other, not vocalized, reads are. Please elaborate. 2-3. - Originally I thought I had caught you here by getting you to state that GreY's attack on GK was both a trap and OMGUS, which wouldn't make any sense. HOWEVER, I decided to look back at your original case again to make sure I got my facts straight and it turns out that I made a mistake in my original assertions against you. And, because of my mistake, it revealed an inconsistency much larger than the simple contradiction I first mentioned. "Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it wasn't a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" In Ryu's original case, he says twice that he doesn't believe the 'trap' explanation for GreY's post. He classifies GreY as opportunistic and picking on the easy targets. I was wrong when I said that Ryu had misrepresented GreY by endorsing the trap explanation. Yet Ryu doesn't point out the obvious flaw in how I was representing him, he accepts it and defends it. That is not the action of a tunneling townie who has been challenged on his past case. That is the action of a scum who is reacting to pressure. 4. - I think it is amusing that you convicted GreY on OMGUS, yet you bite back at both me and VE with "maybe you're scum" as soon as we pressure you. | ||
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On March 19 2013 07:26 RyuSuzaku wrote: it obviously was a trap in retrospect because grey flipped town. I didn't believe it was a trap at the time. How is this contradictory at all? Grey said it was a trap-you claim it wasn't. I disbelieved that it was a trap, that he wanted it to look like one, but that it truly wasn't. He flipped town = he intended it to be a trap. No contradiction here. My statement of confusion over you and VE is me questioning my reads, because both of you are grossly misrepresenting me (you more than VE). I'm not going to post my reads at night, no use. You make a good point. I'll walk back my accusation a bit and do some more thinking. | ||
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Pre-Day Reads Town BH and GK - I believe the claim as presented by BH. Scib - Person I have agreed with the most, constructive. Vivax - I haven't agreed with him much of the time, but the way he has behaved and pursued his reads looks very townie to me. DP - This one is harder to explain, it is more of a gut read. Likely Town VE - The last time I nailed VE to the wall as scum (when I was vig) the thing that pushed him over the top for me was how he seemed to distance himself from the thread conversation. His play thus far has been very involved and spotlight grabbing which is the opposite of that game, Paranoia mafia. I am not a big fan of how he has been jumping around to different lynch targets though. Hopeless - His posts were few and short, but I liked them. Ryu - He defended himself well and like a townie when I pressured him. Keep an eye on him and make sure he is contributing on multiple subjects. People I Found Myself Agreeing With, IE The Dangerous Ones (if they are scum) Mr. Wiggles - Seems to have some pretty good analysis, but I remain cautious of him. layabout - Was one of my strongest townreads early on, and could probably fit very comfortably in my 'Likely Town' category. His lack of any lengthy analysis during day one is why I put him here. kitaman27 - Similar to layabout, I have liked a lot of what he has to say, but I feel like he has held himself separate from the conversation, which bothers me. Scummy People zarepath TranceStorm - Dude might just be lynch bait, but I really don't like his play. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:07 Mocsta wrote: Im not following? Its all WIFOM right? If you want more WIFOM, Kei just caught VE in hydra.... Yes, my thinking could be reduced to WIFOM but here it is anyways. Scum priorities for NKs tend to fall along what threatens them the most balanced with a risk/reward assessment. If zare is scum, then the people threatening him right now are myself, Scib, and Vivax (off the top of my head). Vivax might be slightly less of a threat, as people have repeatedly ignored some of the things he says. But both Scib and I are extremely hard lynches at the moment, being considered townie by practically all of the thread (if I have read correctly). This makes Scib and I, and to a lesser degree, Vivax, logical targets IF zarepath is scum, and IF he was feeling the pressure. BH is another logical target if his roleclaim is true (I think it is, but can't be 100% sure). Now consider possible Medic protections. BH has claimed blue which could likely pull a medic's attention. Scib is probably the most townie and biggest threat in general, also a good chance of protection. But that still leaves myself and Vivax as pretty safe targets. Yes, this is WIFOM, but if I was scum this is how I would sift possible targets IF I was worried about zare getting lynched D2. Instead we get a Keirathi kill. A good kill because he is a solid town player, but by killing a replacement player who had very little time to put forth his opinions my guess is that scum is less worried about the track town is currently on, and more worried about a new voice providing a course correction. | ||
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I need to get to bed, good night. | ||
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"Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT(So BH made one himself) so I'll drop some stuff in here(here being the QT BH just made) since I have to step out for a moment." It is far more probable than your theory that BH made a QT, the hosts were made aware of it, and they just stuck with that QT for the BH-GK masoning. The slip you found simply isn't. On March 20 2013 01:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Ok found it. It's the timestamps that bother me. Between BH and GK, (the ones Vivax suspects of being a scumteam-fabricated QT/logs) every single post has a fairly decent size berth in between; the smallest one being 3 minutes right at the end, the next smallest being 5 minutes (2-lines) and every one after that being 12 min or longer in between posts. This means that it's POSSIBLE that they were fabricating these posts in the scum QT in between. This isn't possible in the VE-BH logs, as there is evidence of free-flowing quick conversation taking place with multiple 2-minute spaces in between posts from both of them. Also of course the fact that they didn't even start contacting each other until much later in the day either means a) they were planning in the scum QT b) BH didn't send his mason request till late (can be a subset of (a), null) c) he's telling the truth and DrH didn't set up the QT until later. The post where Vivax outlines the slip makes option (c) seem VERY odd so the scummier options seem more likely here. Now this could all be Wave's Conspiracy Theories™ but I figure it's worth putting out there to see what people think. @WOS You are supposing that BH, GK, and possibly VE all coordinated enough to create these false logs, yet you don't think they could have changed the timestamps to make the exchange look more genuine? If you think the logs are faked, analyzing the timestamps like you are is worthless. | ||
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Vote: VisceraEyes A larger case will follow later tonight when I have more time. | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote: zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved. You are pretty sure town had 2 vig? GreY was a pseudo mason-vig. | ||
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On March 18 2013 15:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: GreYMisT the Nightmare has been lynched. You are the Nightmare. At the end of the day cycle you can choose a player whose dream you will visit. In the dream you can communicate with them in secret. You will be sent a mod link to a quicktopic. You do not have to use your real username. After a full cycle of communication, once in the game, you can choose to kill the player you had just masoned with by attacking them with a nightmare, they will die during the next night cycle. PM Night actions to me and Oatsmaster now :-) | ||
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I thought VE was scummy because of the way he was jumping around with his vote, pushing a bunch of different wagons. This started with DP but I also disagree with him on BH, which takes me to the 2 reveals at night when don't serve a town purpose. Revealing the masoning BH was doing is fine, but doing it when there is plenty of time for scum to react is a completely scum motivated thing to do. IF VE is actually a vet, then he knows with reasonable certainty that he is going to live until day2. Waiting that extra couple hours, or even just waiting until day 2 to reveal the masoning and why that made BH look scummy would not have changed any of the value of VE's points. What it did do was throw in some WIFOM where we find BH suspicious because he is forced to claim and then doesn't die, which simultaneously makes VE look more townie because the common thing scum would do in that situation is just shoot BH. Basically, I would absolutely no problem with the way VE went about this, IF he had waited until daytime. Then there is the Vet claim, which also looks bad simply because going past "I took a hit" is bad. But all of this is neither here nor there anymore becase... The 3rd party crap! This is where I am getting really confused. If we are to believe the logs, then the only reason I can think of that VE would post them with that last line in there is that he honestly believes that he never actually joined the 3rd party. Also, if that premise is rejected and he did actually join the 3rd party, then it means the my scumread is likely wrong because scum wouldn't say, "If I'm going to be ignored by most of the thread, I might as well punish them for it.". | ||
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I'm unvoting until I can figure some things out. Unvote: VE | ||
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On March 21 2013 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I just didn't think about the logs man. They weren't even factoring in because I specifically asked if they were allowed. I assumed that if that were changed I would have specifically heard something to that regard. It was apparently in the thread and I missed it though. I posted about BH masoning me because I thought he was scum based on my conversation with him during the cycle and based on my observation of his play D1/N1. If he's scum, I wanted the fact that he's masoning people and specifically requesting that this fact be kept secret IN the thread. Becuase that's active manipulation of town. Active. I find it hard to believe that you has such a lapse in regards to the logs. Whenever I (or anyone really) has a top scum read that they are actively pursuing, which you were after revealing the BH had masoned you, I pay pretty close attention to that person's posts until they either alleviate my suspicions, or are dead. So I don't buy that you didn't notice the logs. And once you notice them, that would immediately create conflict which would quickly lead you to the host announcement that logs are allowed. This is a townie train of thought for someone pursuing their top scum read, it is not the train of thought you displayed. As for your second part, how would any of what you were trying to reveal to the town changed if you had waited until day2 to post about it? | ||
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On March 21 2013 05:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Because I wasn't sure I would survive until D2 DYH. In spite of being a Vet I don't know how much KP scum have, I'm not sure if being roleblocked affects anything, etc and I felt like the WF thing was important. Again, this answer doesn't quite add up. If you have the mentality that you might die, then you write up the information and the corresponding case and you post it right before the deadline. If you already think you might die, you don't suddenly push a case that might make you an even more likely target. | ||
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Which brings me to something that has been bothering me about this the whole time. Supposedly the Mirror has a recruitment mechanic that requires the person being recruited to accept or deny The Mirror's advances. In other words, The Mirror requires a player to play against their win condition. It just doesn't make sense to me. | ||
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That, more than anything else, makes me suspicious about the plausibility of The Mirror in the first place. | ||
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1. You can choose to terminate your contact with him at any point (though we have no idea why this is a necessary thing). 2. He likely is unshootable or at least has vet powers. 3. He is likely 3rd party (though longshot could be scum). 4. He is a recruitment role. Here are the possible ways that the recruiting could work. 1. It is like the nightmare role, and it is a forced recruitment on the following day/night. 2. Same as #1 but requires you to accept. 3. If you don't cancel the QT within a period of time, you are recruited. 2 and 3 don't seem likely to me so here is where I get to a sticking poiint VE. I'm not convinced you are not scum. Also even if you are town, and The Mirror's mechanic works in a reasonable way, that means you are already 3rd party through accepting or through immediate press-ganging, or you are going to become 3rd party in the near future, which is supported by this quote from The Mirror, "the greater purpose you shall receive"(IE, you haven't received it yet). So explain how lynching you after you provide these super cases you promised is not the best course of action. We get possible scum or likely third party. If you aren't third party yet then we deny The Mirror an expansion to his 3p | ||
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Just look at how my points have lined up and you can already see the list of things I don't think add up, and I haven't even dug super hard into your filter. 1. The way you handled your accusation of BH after revealing the Masoning is not indicative of a townie mindset. 2. The timing of your reveal that BH was masoning you is not indicative of a townie mindset. 3. Your vet claim only gave additional information to the scum team. 4. You can supposedly cut off communication with The Mirror at will, but there is nothing to suggest that this specific mechanic affects what the Mirror does at all if my suppositions on how he works are in any way accurate. 5. The Mirror is completely un-phased by your revealing to the thread that he exists. Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On March 21 2013 06:42 VisceraEyes wrote: And wait a sec DYH. Why is it a longshot that he could be scum? Aren't you the one who raised the argument "Well that sounds kinda wonky for Normal". Isn't it more likely that it's just scum fucking with me than a recruiting mason with a strange recruiting mechanic? Scum screwing with you does make more sense than anything else we have supposed. | ||
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On March 21 2013 07:59 TestSubject893 wrote: I want to apologize for my inactivity. Since I was last active I was shortly in the hospital and had to unexpectedly drive my sister across the state. I've got some things to say after my 30-page-read-a-thon. 1. So like 30 bajillion people claimed. WoS did so in just about the scummiest way possible and if he is town needs to think a little bit before acting that way next time. It seems to me we have no choice but to believe him for now, but if a scum were going to fake claim to save themselves WoS's claim is about as good as it gets for scum. 2. VE was on the scum list for me before any of this stuff went down, but something about his interactions with "The Mirror" just doesn't add up. I think the most likely scenario if that he is some form of anti-town and we've caught him in a lie. No matter what's actually going on, I don't think we have much choice but to kill him today. ##Vote: VisceraEyes 3. I find the fact that my inactivity caused BH to be less suspicious of me a huge scum tell for him. All game long I was in his top 2 for scum and then all of the sudden the time comes that he has to justify his reasoning and I'm no longer there. Its clear that he chose his targets before he came up with his reasoning and this makes no sense as town. BH is scum. Town BH is too talented to peg someone as scum for disagreeing with them on a single point during day 1. I'm sure BH will rebut this point by pointing out how he's listed me since then and tell us all about how my inactivity is scummy, but none of those are excuses for having me in his top 2 scum all of D1 without being able to back it up. If he were a sincere town player he'd have been able to make a case on me to back those feelings up from D1 alone, but he couldn't even muster a paragraph. 1. - WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible. 2 sentences later, it is about as good as it gets for scum. Either we have two very different interpretations as to what those things mean, or you just said that WoS's claim is both very bad and very good, barely a breath apart. Not to mention the ridiculously begrudging language you are using to describe believing the claim. Strike 1. 2. - VE was on the scum list? Go into that more please. What originally caught your eye about VE? Did you have an opinion on cosmic's case? Who else besides VE and BH are on this scumlist? Does it bother you that the person you are voting for was tunneling your most consistent scumread (BH) for the better part of a day? You seem to agree with me about 'The Mirror' not adding up. Why would you state your 'most likely' scenario without even referring to the extended conversation VE and I just had about possible explanations. Again you use the phrase 'no choice' as if you want no part in the blame for the VE lynch if it happens. YOU THINK that the most likely scenario has VE as an anti-town role, YOU cast your vote. Justify it, explain your logic, lead us in your thinking. If you have a most likely scenario, that means you considered less likely scenarios. What were they? by what criteria did you dismiss them? Strike 2. 3. - You have a huge scum tell on BH, this scum tell is that he hasn't been consistently referring to you in his top scum reads while you essentially haven't been playing the game. This is your only reasoning. This isn't a case, this doesn't convince anyone you are right that are not already thinking BH is scum. You want to take the firm stance on BH, but you don't want to do the work, that is scummy. Strike 3. Vote: TestSubject893 PS. Sorry to hear about your RL issues, but you are scum. | ||
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On March 21 2013 08:54 TestSubject893 wrote: Apparently my wording is unclear. "WoS's claim is the scummiest claim possible." and "as good as it gets for scum." both mean the same thing to me. WoS's claim was summy. I use begrudging language, because it reflects my begrudging acceptance.... I'm not sure any of this counts against me in any way.... I talk about this a here: It took him 40 pages to respond to DP's repeated questioning about that post and his logic has been inconsistent throughout the game. No, the post I reference happened during night one. I had not been inactive very long at that point. And even if I had, my point still stands. He had me as his top read day 1 and can't justify it. Ok, so I am guilty of the lazy case making in this instance (which by extension I can't get butt hurt about Coag's comment). However, I very much would like you to answer my questions and explain yourself on each of your sections much more thoroughly. Show me just how wrong I am. | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:00 Vivax wrote: Glurio VE is a confirmed liar. I have shown that his timestamps weren't from the last night like he claimed, and he stopped posting since then. You not reading the thread is concerning. I give you the timestamps of the first three posts in the log. All of which happen the last night. You used the last 2 timestamps. 3 The Mirror 03-19-2013 11:52 PM ET (US) 2 VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 08:23 PM ET (US) 1 VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 08:17 PM ET (US) | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:13 Coagulation wrote: doyouhas... what is your conclusion | ||
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On March 21 2013 09:19 TestSubject893 wrote: I can answer the questions, but I'm not sure what else you want. I feel that I already showed you were wrong, lol. I liked it. He makes some good points Zare and GK aren't looking great in my eyes. Geript was on there at one point but has moved back toward null since. Yes, but there's some a possibility that they are both anti-town but on different factions, so its not the end of the world. I'll reevaluate as new information becomes available, no need to blindly speculate now. You didn't show me I was wrong, you showed me I made a bad case. The questions are about getting you to explain your thoughts. I want your reasons as much as I want your conclusions. Those lack of details is why I jumped all over you. | ||
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The reason everyone starting jumping on VE is because he left his acceptance line in the logs, right? That means that everyone who initially jumped on VE is accepting that the 3rd party recruiting mechanic is based off getting players to choose an option that is against their current faction's win condition. I can't be the only one that finds that ridiculous in general and not at all likely for a 'normal' game? In fact, can anyone give me a 3rd party recruitment mechanic that doesn't involve standard press-ganging of people from their current faction that actually makes sense in the context of what was in those logs and isn't ridiculous to the point of not possibly being in a 'normal' game? And if the recruitment mechanic is in some way a press-gang mechanic, how is that supported at all by the log or the context? But what if VE was recruited from the start and they faked the logs? Not possible, if VE was recruited from the start we never would have gotten the initial post where he says he has been contacted by The Mirror. There are only 2 explanations that actually work with the given information. 1. VE is scum and fabricated the whole thing. I don't think this is true because it would be a high effort, high risk, low reward move. He had just claimed Vet, adding this on top doesn't make sense. 2. The Mirror is a mafia mason, and used that power to spread misinformation. It explains why the recruitment mechanics don't add up. It explains why VE was chosen, he had just outed the first person who masoned him. It explains why The Mirror didn't seem to care after VE outed him. I still have my couple points that don't add up pre-3p that pointed to VE being scummy, but if I am right about the 3p situation, and I think I am, it trumps all of my earlier suspicions. VE is town. I'm moving my vote to Wiggles, who seems to be the only other viable option. Unvote: TestSubject893 Vote: Mr. Wiggles | ||
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On March 21 2013 10:43 geript wrote: DYH you really need to listen to the podcast. What part? the part about how DrH want to find a way to make recruitment roles a thing again? | ||
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Unvote: Mr. Wiggles Vote: Ace To add to your point of him trying to get us to talk about fruitless subjects here is an exchange that could very well have been exactly that: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 16:05 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, that instantly makes me like a zarepath lynch much less. On March 19 2013 16:06 Ace wrote: why? On March 19 2013 16:12 Ace wrote: How does Keirathi's death paint zarepath as innocent? On March 19 2013 16:26 DoYouHas wrote: Yes, my thinking could be reduced to WIFOM but here it is anyways. Scum priorities for NKs tend to fall along what threatens them the most balanced with a risk/reward assessment. If zare is scum, then the people threatening him right now are myself, Scib, and Vivax (off the top of my head). Vivax might be slightly less of a threat, as people have repeatedly ignored some of the things he says. But both Scib and I are extremely hard lynches at the moment, being considered townie by practically all of the thread (if I have read correctly). This makes Scib and I, and to a lesser degree, Vivax, logical targets IF zarepath is scum, and IF he was feeling the pressure. BH is another logical target if his roleclaim is true (I think it is, but can't be 100% sure). Now consider possible Medic protections. BH has claimed blue which could likely pull a medic's attention. Scib is probably the most townie and biggest threat in general, also a good chance of protection. But that still leaves myself and Vivax as pretty safe targets. Yes, this is WIFOM, but if I was scum this is how I would sift possible targets IF I was worried about zare getting lynched D2. Instead we get a Keirathi kill. A good kill because he is a solid town player, but by killing a replacement player who had very little time to put forth his opinions my guess is that scum is less worried about the track town is currently on, and more worried about a new voice providing a course correction. Ace tried to get responses from scib and I that lay out WIFOM thinking that is generally unhelpful, and could potentially waste the time of town if it hadn't been shut down quickly by BH and Moc after I indulged. There are other explanations, but for any of them to work Ace would have had to follow through with his questions in one form or another, he does not. | ||
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As for the rest of you, I spent most of day2 trying to figure out what was actually going on with VE. He was the central topic of the day and that is where I spent my time. One of the results of that was that when I eventually decided I thought VE was town, I was lacking in scum reads elsewhere. My biggest frustration this game is that apparently people view my contributions as crap, as helping the scum team. Even to the point of calling me the 6th scum member. Yet NONE of you choose to interact with me when I'm espousing what are now seen as clearly bad ideas. One person has legitimately tried to talk to me when I wasn't talking directly at them or about them, and that is Scib. If I was such a big town read for everyone day 1, WHY WOULDN'T YOU TRY TO WORK WITH ME? Why am I not considered one of the votes you are particularly trying to court? Why, if I am toiling away in scumland and it seems obvious to people, but you still have me as a townread, would you not try and correct me? Screw you guys, I'm going back to day 1 with all the flips in my head, and I'm going to find scum. When I finish and I present my cases tomorrow, agree or disagree, we are going to work together to decide the best lynch. I'm tired of this. I'll see you in day 3. | ||
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I think I have greatly narrowed the number of suspects. -Testsubject: Claimed the vigi hit on BH, no reason to disbelieve. Town. -VE - At this point he is as close to guaranteed not-mafia as we are ever going to get, town or 3p. -Zarepath - Very likely to be town. The quality of his posts has been going up as the game progresses and I just don't see how scum zarepath posts this about me. -WoS & TPS: I believe WoS's claim, but even if I didn't I would take him off the table for today's lynch because of it. Also, TPS seems cleared both by WoS's check and the fact that he was BH's first choice of tunnel. -kitaman27: Seems quite townie to me. I don't know if anybody would disagree with me on this point. -layabout: Similar to kita in my mind, if a little less verbose, town or 3p. -Coag and Kenpachi: I read both as town, possible 3p. It should be noted that in my mind the lynching objectives of the 3p, if it exists, should be the same as the towns, given how horrendously fast we are losing this. Because of this I consider VE off the table for today. That is 10/17 people who's opinion I think I can trust (including my own). This narrows my field of search to just 7 names: DP, Trance, glurio, CC, geript, Ryu, and Wiggles. Some of which I find scummy, some of which I am null on currently, and some of which I just haven't looked into enough. And no, I'm not going to say which is which. I've shot myself in the foot using this kind of reasoning before when I thought I had the whole scumteam pegged. But really I was 2/4, and in my attempts to convict them all I alienated the 2 townies in the group, lost their votes and had the lynch manipulated to the wrong target. If you disagree strongly with the people in either of these groups, I want to hear it. But if I am not completely out of touch with this game, and I correctly identified most of the townies, and those same townies also see it this way, we just created a majority, so long as we can actually work together to pick the best lynch candidate. Remember, if you are in my second group, I'm not calling you scum yet, and clearly I would be wrong about at least 3 of you. I want your comments too. I want to refine this list of reads until scum have nowhere left to hide. Hopefully I will be able to sleep now that I have gotten this out of my head. Gnight. | ||
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I also think that CC and Wriggles are a great place to look for scum, and that is exactly what I will do when I get back from work in ~4-5 hours. | ||
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I think it is reasonable to assume that if there is a third party, their win condition would require them to prolong this game. If we keep mislynching, the game ends quickly, the 3rd party doesn't have sufficient time to recruit, less likely they will win. Therefore, I think if there is a 3rd party, their win condition and towns currently line up and so lynching into suspected third party would be a bad idea. What are your thoughts/reads on Geript, DP, and Ryu? | ||
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On March 23 2013 05:42 Kenpachi wrote: hot damn this changes everything Are your top two scum reads Wiggles and DP? Right now that is the way I am leaning, I'm currently reading Wiggles' filter and I'm moving to DP after. | ||
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On March 23 2013 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote: You guys are playing mafia, I don't really understand where this sentiment of people making you want to quit is. You signed up to play, you know how people are, now live with it. When I have the chance later I'll reinforce my case on glurio but activity is real shit today. What's the deal, is it between CC/Wiggles for now? I don't think it has been decided yet exactly which candidates are going to be consolidated on yet, but CC/Wiggles are both on the table for it. | ||
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The way he keeps promising future reads, saying he needs to read more, that he is waiting on players to post. He kept delaying and delaying and still never gave comprehensive reads. I find the way he interacts with with BH/TPS/GK to also be pretty suspicious. Early on he throws a lot of pressure GK's way. After the game has been going for a little while he starts giving opinions on TPS and GK that sound like hedging. He moderates his stances on both TPS and GK such that his options are more open and he isn't directly disagreeing with BH. It reads to me very much like he knew the actual situation as BH was pressuring and didn't want to sabotage what BH was doing. This is me extrapolating from the sense that Wiggles seems to be walking a very careful line between BH/TPS/GK. I feel pretty strongly right now that Wiggles is scum, and that is where my vote is going. Vote: Mr. Wiggles PS. The next 2 I'm looking into are DP and glurio. | ||
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VE, what are your thoughts on DP? You agreed in day1(maybe N1) that your initial case on him was bad. Has he stayed on your radar or have you avoided him? | ||
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On March 23 2013 07:00 VisceraEyes wrote: He still hasn't done anything that screams town to me. He's doing a good job of at least What is making DP stick out to me (and why I need to look into him more) is that I'm getting a disconnect from when I played with him in Witchcraft. I was scum and he was town. In Witchcraft he was still abrasive, but he was also constructive. By the end of day1 he had established himself as townie, second only to Hapa. I wasn't the only one who felt like that either, in Witchcraft people voted in town power roles, we killed DP because it was clear that the town sentiment leaned towards him being town enough that we were comfortable shooting him with a silver bullet (we were right, he died). I have not seen that active, pro-town DP from Witchcraft this game. I encourage you to take a look at that game. Also, he has 9 pages of filter and I feel like I know very little about where he stands. Maybe that is just me being inattentive, but it might be a signal that he is flying under the radar. | ||
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On March 23 2013 07:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Well to be fair he just came in and was all "Aw man all my scumreads are dead BAH" Townreads, but yeah, I get your point. Do you have any intention of looking into his Witchcraft play? | ||
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@Kenpachi - What are your reasons for having DP as one of your top scum reads? | ||
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Right now what concerns me the most are the people who have been coming in from time to time with large, thought out, persuasive posts. Unfortunately that is not a small group this game. I refuse to believe that even this town has utterly failed to provide any good analysis on people. So when I see that over the course of day2 we managed to put forth 3 townies and 1 probable townie as the lynch options, I have to think that town is being manipulated. My advice if I happen to die tonight is to treat tomorrow like a second day1. Wipe the slate clean for everyone, IE your town/scum leanings, and proceed as if it was day1 with a ton of source material to talk about. We are all making assumptions that are screwing us, let go of your current scum reads, look at the game with fresh eyes, and see if you come to the same conclusion or if someone new sticks out to you even more. | ||
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I think layabout is scum, and if he isn't the Mirror, I will eat my hat in true BH fashion. Look at this post: On March 27 2013 03:39 layabout wrote: I am back am from the looks of it i am one of the few. I'm disappointed with the wiggles flip and surprised by the nightkills. It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. It's strange that mafia wanted to tell us this rather than take more predictable shots. Between the mirror being mafia and 3p i would say that 3rd makes a LOT more sense. We are therefore looking at a 4-1-8 at best since If the mirror has recruited anybody we might not have control of the vote and with 2 KP this could very well be lylo. Why are these players still alive? Testsubject893 ThePeaShooter WaveOfShadow I might not be one to talk but with this level of activity and those spread out votes we don't stand a chance. What is the purpose of this post? As far as I can tell all this post contains is speculation and WIFOM. Speculation about the VE kill specifically and nothing about the Coag kill. The two specific things that catch my eye and scream scummy is the way that laya talks about the mirror, and his WIFOM list at the end. Laya says that 3p makes a LOT more sense as an explanation for the Mirror when I would argue that the opposite is true. If the mirror is a 3p recruitmen role, why does no recruiting mechanic make sense? Yes, I've harped on this before. If the town is stacked with 6 powerful roles, 3xVig, doc, det, vet, what sort of answering power does scum have? RB, mason, maybe a GF? That isn't balanced. What would make it more balanced is if The Mirror was a scum version of the Nightmare role. Let me paint a picture with some speculation of my own. Laya, the last living player from bureaucracy, the person most speculative about mason roles, and one of the biggest proponents of being open to/pushing the existence of a recruiting 3p, is The Mirror. He is drawn to speculation about mason roles because he is a mason role. He speculates about the existence of the 3rd party because it is his own scheme to get it into the town's mind/discussion and sidetrack things. The likelihood of the existence of a 3p recruiting role goes down as more people die and don't flip 3rd party, also while the game drags on and there are no reports of The Mirror masoning anyone else (which is why I think it is suspicious that this is Layabout's go to explanation). Instead, I think that The Mirror is the scum version of The Nightmare, and the death of VE is the final result of his interaction with The Mirror. But now you are thinking, why were there only 2 deaths last night? Well if TranceStorm was scum before he was modkilled, which I have a strong suspicion he was, then his modkill would have dropped scum to 3 players and 1 kp. The Cosm wagon feels wrong to me. It feels like the Wiggles wagon after we lynched Ace. Day1 3(4*)-5/5 of the people who got votes were town. Day2 5/5 of the people who got votes were town. Day3, 1(2*)-3/3 of the people who got votes were town. * - I have DP as town in my reads, the parenthesis number is my opinion. The trend that should be slapping you in the face when you read that information is that we have been looking completely in the wrong direction with most of our lynching efforts. Do a 180, don't just follow the same meandering path that started in day 2 that led from VE to Wiggles to Ace to Wiggles and now to Cosm. In my opinion that road leads to disaster. Vote: layabout | ||
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All that list does is create suspicion about the claims/rolechecks of those 3 players. What is so bad about it is that he is suspicious of them as a group, which means all it is is WIFOM. If he wanted to attack WoS's claim or the greencheck on TPS or the vig claim of Test he would have addressed them separately. All this list is meant to do is draw the town into a useless discussion (sounds a lot like the 3p) and sow doubt about people largely considered town. Layabout later retracts this by saying: On March 27 2013 04:00 layabout wrote: That list is players that we should not lynch at all. Also know as players that i would have expected to be killed or obviously town players. Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb? Unfortunately for layabout his original list shows a much different line of reasoning than he puts forth in that quote. layabout is saying that IF these guys are obviously townie, THEN why are they still alive? In other words, casting doubt on their towniness. There just simply no other way that the sentiment plays out. I wouldn't even think of it as a scum tell because I had similar thoughts, except that all his list is doing is inviting other people into WIFOM about the night kills. | ||
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Day 1 - You point out wishy-washyness towards zarepath. This confuses me, between myself, scib, and hopeless(ace), we had come up with good points against zarepath, or at the very least points that I agreed with and said as such. When the tide seemed to be turning to a GreY lynch and I had nothing else to present to convince people, I started digging through zare's meta for new things to bring up. I tried to do so as objectively as I could, because a massive tunnel of his meta is worthless, which is why I even included a game that was over a year old and caused problems with the point I was making. I was one of the biggest pushers of a zare lynch day 1. This should answer both "Has he ever had a solid scumread." and "Was he wishy-washy on zare". I was gung-ho about a zare lynch going into day 2 but was sidetracked with both keirathi's read of town on zare and his immediate death. Soft defending BH - Yep, up until the moment he flipped I thought BH was town. Even in day 1, I thought the way he went after TPS and the way he defending GK was very much like town BH. The only thing that gave me pause about him was I didn't like the way he bullied geript. Switching to Wiggles, then to Ace - I've addressed this before. On March 22 2013 02:35 DoYouHas wrote: @Vivax - You are right that I sheeped, but you are wrong about the instance. I sheeped the Wiggles wagon because at the time I saw it as the only alternative to the VE wagon that could actually have a chance of saving VE. When I switched to Ace it was because Mr. Wiggles case won me over. I thought the case was great and was framed in a view of the game that I agreed with. The Ace wagon had all the hallmarks of 'we are about to lynch scum' that I normally look for. People with strong opinions on other candidates were being won over gradually. There was surprising initial resistance. Ace did nothing to defend himself. I screwed up, but I'm not going to rewrite my thought process to make myself look better (like Moc). I thought that Ace was the right lynch, I was wrong. In discussing the 3p in regards to VE - VE was a scum read for me before the reveal of the 3p logs. Once I read the logs and the reactions I came to the conclusion that VE had to be town revealing something to us, or he had to be scum, faking it. I spent a good amount of time trying to work out those two sides, but ended up thinking VE was town. In discussing the 3p in general - Here is where I don't understand what you are finding so scummy. The paranoia I display in thinking that the 3p is some elaborate scum scheme is a townie impulse. The attempt to try and fit the strange information and events into a coherent narrative is a townie thing to do. Neither of these things ended up being right or useful, but they weren't scummy. In fact, if my ideas had held sway what would have happened? Town would have just kept on scumhunting, only ignoring 3p. My ideas about the 3p just don't serve a scum purpose. PS: Just because I didn't think the 3p existed doesn't mean I was going to eliminate the possibility completely, hence the considerations I gave in my lists of reads. Lists of reads - My hope in posting my long lists of reads was that 1-2 things would happen. 1. People I had a town read on and had a town read on me would work with me in hunting scum. 2. People would object to my reads and that would give me a starting point in a discussion with them. Neither of these things really happened. Yet another disappointment. Layabout - I called layabout The Mirror, which I thought to be a scum role. Which means that this statement, "DYH's final efforts before disappearing for the day have been a push on layabout, calling him 3rd party despite the fact that he didn't originally believe the role existed (or was that just to protect BH? I guess he can't get his stories straight).", is just you talking out of your ass (IE. tunneling). Had I checked the thread after the 3p was confirmed I would have switched off of laya onto kita. My inactivity - I know I have been doing town no favors with my lack of posting, and a meta read on me would suggest that less posting = more scummy. I have been busy and I have been tired and I have been disheartened. I don't have any particularly good excuse for my play today or yesterday. | ||
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On March 30 2013 07:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright DYH, if you're here then let's get something positive from you. Top scumreads and why? Your refutation of my points against you regarding your D1 play: what are your current thoughts on zare? Did you read my case on him at all? My top scum read would be kita/ryu - Kita posted quite a few large, constructed, reasonable posts, enough to get me agreeing with him but felt like he was flying under the radar. He soft defends BH (in a more suspicious manner than me, imo). He pushes all the wrong lynches. Despite occupying the role of a big-case making analyst that for most of the game people were considering town, he is still alive. The big increase in his activity before the last lynch also bothered me. He went all out on the fake claim train when arguing against DP. Ryu is someone I hadn't taken a good look at for a while because I thought he answered my early pressure of him well and so I put my attention elsewhere. What is scummiest about Ryu to me is his incredibly narrow focus throughout the game. Spent all of day1 on GreY, moved to VE, added in DP, added in cosmic right at the end. Almost his entire filter up until the last lynch is centered around those 4 players. Now that all of them have flipped the way that he is trolling around for a new target seems scummy. I currently think zare is town, I don't remember the points you made against him off the top of my head. It was long and I was skimming. I'll go re-read. | ||
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 30 2013 07:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and by the way what bothers me about your defenses of BH (which you didn't quite address) is that nowhere in your posting do you actually refer to him as town, you just hint at it little by little and avoid coming out with a read. I will admit my last point regarding layabout is probably my weakest and I'm willing to concede that (especially the association bit) with proper evidence but the fact remains that you have been spectacularly noncommittal all game, not just Day 1. You're of no use to us if you can't give us something concrete and why. No sheeping, no WIFOM. I did refer to him as town explicitly in my first set of reads right before day2. | ||
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 30 2013 08:54 WaveofShadow wrote: So you think that kita is bussing glurio at LYLO? Really? I'm also interested in this. TPS, if you are correct then kita is bussing 2 of his scum buddies, and glurio is shoving kita pretty singlemindedly. This doesn't bother you at all? | ||
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 30 2013 10:56 RyuSuzaku wrote: so you think me and DYH are scum together, and I'm bussing him? This is all you have to say? loool No you have it all wrong, we are bussing each other. None of this even matters anymore, we are so screwed. We are at lylo with no leader, no consensus on lynch targets, no consensus on who is town (maybe we can all get behind TPS and geri). Even if we manage to lynch correctly today we are still probably screwed. The only way this goes well is if everyone consolidates. Yes, we are at that point, who can we consolidate on so that we actually have a chance of getting another screwed up day. Pick me? I'm town, you're screwed. But I don't see ryu and kenp going for anyone else. So let's talk. | ||
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 18 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: VOTE COUNT! goodkarma (1): GreYMisT GreYMisT (12): RyuSuzaku, goodkarma, Vivax, ThePeashooter, cosmicomics, Wade Fell, Mr. Wiggles, Kenpachi, zarepath, kitaman27, TestSubject893, WaveofShadow zarepath (6): sciberbia, Hopeless1der, DoYouHas, DarthPunk, layabout, geript DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm DarthPunk (3): VisceraEyes, glurio, Coagulation A pretty hard rule for scum in day 1 voting is that scum split their votes. I have never been in a game where that isn't true day1. I don't think TS was scum anymore, since scum had 2kp last night. I'm also banking on geript being town. That leaves layabout and glurio as unflipped people not on the GreY wagon I'm not confident about. Thoughts? | ||
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 30 2013 12:36 layabout wrote: As far as other scum go i don't see ryu being town after reading his discussion with DP i don't think it was 2 townies shouting at each other. As far as the final two go It could realistically be any from: kenpachi glurio doyouhas I was hoping kenpachi would get vigged. kenpachi has done nothing to make me think he is town and has been voting with very little supporting arguments then afking a lot which is something scum would be more inclined to do. If you are asking about yourself geript and glurio i would say that: I am unsure about you DYH. You were carrying out independent analysis early on but your play yesterday furthered mafia objectives not town ones. I feel like glurio could be scum but since glurio wants to lynch kita and ryu who i am confident about i am hesitant to lynch him .I labelled geript towny early on and haven't had reason to change that label. That is one of my many regrets this game. If I had come back after the 3p claims I would have retracted my vote on you and probably shifted it to kita. | ||
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 19 2013 16:28 VisceraEyes wrote: This is probably best post in thread. I'm going to bed, and I read everything tomorrow. It didn't seem to accomplish anything to respond to this when you posted it, but now that the game is over I am left wondering why you liked this post of mine so much. It seemed to me, even as I wrote it, that it was just a mix of how I pick targets and WIFOM. | ||
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