EPTHe acts like a lone ranger... even when town does the same thing
TL Mafia LX - Page 96
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
He acts like a lone ranger... even when town does the same thing | ||
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The Macho Man
171 Posts
On February 28 2013 12:53 MilkSuckler wrote: dunno on that one, Vivax is a crazy muda farker that has no problems bussing (without QT consent).. look at his game with Toad in ?Fruity? He acts like a lone ranger... even when town does the same thing thats not what we are talking about but ok | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On February 28 2013 12:54 The Macho Man wrote: thats not what we are talking about but ok I disagree I think your using the heuristic that scum is meticulous and careful... and him making mistakes and having multiple filters open is town indicative. I can tell you now, I am not as crazy as Vivax, and when I roll scum I have no prblem opening 10 filters and doing a list post. Its easy to make fuck ups on big posts, its hard to proof them.. and often there is lack of motivation to re-read them as they take ages to put together. So yeah, if thats what you and JJ agree on.. then I disagree vehemently for that to be a town heuristic. | ||
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
On February 26 2013 17:50 Aquanim wrote: Agreed, if DocH wanted it I'd vote for him. I intend to properly read up on Wade Fell - if I end up thinking he's town (which I think I will, but we'll see) then I wouldn't be against him as mayor. After all, in this setup mayor will probably die pretty fast, and if WF is NK'd I won't be devastated. Obvious still hasn't done anything to make me think he's town at all. I've skimmed the last ten pages or so but haven't thoroughly read them yet. I think I need to go read some previous games of Prom to decide whether the case on him is good, it seems to be mostly based on trends in his play rather than specifically scummy actions. Still rereading so my reads are a work in progress. While reading through prom's filter I noticed his interactions with aquanim looked pretty forced. I decided then to investigate further and came across this gem. Notice he wants to vote Wade Fell and DocH, both of which intend to lynch prom and that is the main driving force of their campaign as mayor. But look he hasn't even a formed opinion on prom still, and we get even a soft defense as a bonus! Look at the tone of this whole post and how noncommittal he is with everything he says regarding other players. Now why would a player who doesn't believe prom is scum would ever "vote for DocH if he wanted it"? The sheer inherent guilt from this post is sickening. I'm extremely confident this man is scum, even more so than TMM and RO. If we have any vigs take a shot at this man. | ||
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
It is safe to say you were never a NK candidate... Is it not convenient this all comes about after Dr.H threatens you as a valid Vig target? | ||
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On February 28 2013 13:02 JungleJorge wrote: While reading through prom's filter I noticed his interactions with aquanim looked pretty forced. I decided then to investigate further and came across this gem. Notice he wants to vote Wade Fell and DocH, both of which intend to lynch prom and that is the main driving force of their campaign as mayor. But look he hasn't even a formed opinion on prom still, and we get even a soft defense as a bonus! Look at the tone of this whole post and how noncommittal he is with everything he says regarding other players. Now why would a player who doesn't believe prom is scum would ever "vote for DocH if he wanted it"? The sheer inherent guilt from this post is sickening. I'm extremely confident this man is scum, even more so than TMM and RO. If we have any vigs take a shot at this man. I'm in the middle of working on a Vivax at the moment JJ, here, run with this and see if it leads you anywhere: On February 27 2013 18:39 Vivax wrote: What's your read of Prom aqua? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17892651 Just happened to be right on the page when I checked the thread and tabbed back, funny coincidence or divine providence? | ||
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
Im reading through prome/aqua filter now.. but whilst I am doing that. If aqua was indeed mafia, does that make OO confirmed town for you? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
And OO, yes, I've read through the rest of aqua's filter and his interactions with the thread and it supports my conclusion. I think however that the post I quoted should be sufficient damning evidence alone. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On February 28 2013 13:53 JungleJorge wrote: I haven't looked into OO, nor I think that's how I should be spending my time. As I've read the thread normally he didn't seem suspicious to me. Why would aqua being scum make OO confirmed town in your opinion? I would think if you read through aqua filter, my point would be clear... (yes I am being vague intentionally...) | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
Aqua prime focus has been OO... its difficult to swallow that aqua play as scum is *so* weak, he can only muster the courage to make reads on scum brethren OO. Thus, the conclusion for me at least would be, if aqua was scum, OO is cleared by association.. perhaps.. confirmed town is wrong because I forgot about existence of 3rd party. So if that was your pretense, fair enough. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Legend: [++ town vivax | == null tell to me | -- scum vivax ] Looking to the past to help understand the present, this is a game where Vivax was town and was lynched D2. I realize that looking at past games I have the benefit of knowing his alignment and the alignments of the people he is interacting with by virtue of being over. Also, we're only Approx 54 hours into the game give/take and his current tells are likely to become more evident as the game progresses. Newbie Mini XV hosted by Toad, so Toad may have some insight regarding Vivax based on that game where Vivax was town. Words that I would use to describe his town filter in NMMXV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298&user=171343 ++Diligent Quoting ++Aggressive start: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 07:48 Vivax wrote: Giovanni Falcone reporting in. Pro lynch, any information better than no information. Also, Sciberbia, the blue font is reserved for the mods. Let's see who's active, i also remember a guy announcing exams, anyone silent will hang from the towns' tree. On May 31 2012 20:20 Vivax wrote: I'll answer to some of the accusations towards me here, also revealing more important information: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 11:47 O.Golden_ne wrote: @Cattivik Your posting reads so early, with not alot of actual content to date. Early days yet, though remember i'm watching you. Miltonkram what a great post before work. I agree with all points you've said and want anyone who want's to discuss policy to just read that post. I slightly agree with your position on sciberbia as he is promoting policy discussion about no-lynch, however i agree that mafia first post is improbable. My main suspicion lies with Cattivik, though once sciberbia posts some responses to your accusation i will consider a vote on him. ##FOS: Cattivik Miltonkram has finally understood the point sciberbia was trying to make, you also agree on my point about him most likely not being mafia due to first post. His post has generated most discussion so far. Probably more than by just voting for someone based on a gut feeling. From the start of the game the majority, including me, was for D1 lynching, making sciberbias post obsolete cause we won't be discussing policy anyway.It is clear that someone will hang at the end of the day. + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 12:27 heist wrote: Let's have a look at Cattivik. Look at this beginning statement. He agrees with Sciberbia's plan, but decides to support the complete opposite? CONTRADICTION. To me, this looks like he's going with the popular opinion (afraid to rock the boat) while simultaneously seeming to offer him support and defense. Either you agree or you don't. I never agreed to a plan: On May 31 2012 07:48 Cattivik wrote: Giovanni Falcone reporting in. Pro lynch, any information better than no information. Also, Sciberbia, the blue font is reserved for the mods. Let's see who's active, i also remember a guy announcing exams, anyone silent will hang from the towns' tree. On May 31 2012 07:58 Cattivik wrote: Sounds like he thought that a medic setup could save a townie from being lynched, but what for? As far as i know the alignment isn't revealed unless the target dies, in this case it won't. But I was able to understand his logic concerning the difference between D1L/NL once he explained it. Also, there is one more tell for him being actually town: It's unlikely that such a mistake would happen to three mafia at the same time, who without doubt know each others' posts before they are out. In fact, posting in blue font confirms him as townie. Aswell as the fact that it would require a pretty solid plan for mafia to start with the first post, I don't see anything unfolding here though Obviously I took him into defense cause I don't want the most active posters to die first cause they have the balls to expose their neck to easy triggers who do all the work for the mafia by doing so. First and foremost, the lurkers and cautious ones have to get votes, else they can just keep lurking. On May 31 2012 12:27 heist wrote: He seems to really trust Sciberbia based solely on his activity and the notion that "first post can't be mafia" (I mentioned this before). His further reasoning: "Sciberbia is not promoting a NL, he's questioning a day 1 lynch". No. Sciberbia is definitely promoting a NL. It's been obvious since his reasoning. He attempts to remove heat from Sciberbia, over promoting his townie-ness and attacking others who place suspicion on him. He tries to deflect all opposition from Sciberbia, which at this point, is frankly strange. (look at his analysis on Solstice and Miltonkram). He goes out of his way to defend him and his plan while being careful not stick his neck out by staying with the town majority. Based on the response to the previous quotes, I'm not just 'with' the majority, I've been part of it from the start of this game (for a D1 lynch before even knowing what sciberbias reasoning was). And it's in the best interest of the town to keep productive townies alive, sciberbia among them. I also don't like all this fingerpointing between active townies, if there are mafia still lurking, they can lean back. + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 13:18 Eishi_Ki wrote: Sorry for delaying, I was washing the blood off me knife. Skinning a pig can be tiring work.... Anyway, so far what I've got is that Cattivik seems the most likely candidate for scum (overuses collectives such as 'us' and 'we') and doesn't provide any evidence for initially supporting Scib and then saying he wants to LD1 anyway. However, I'm also cautious of Milton. Sciberbia seems like the obvious guy who is going against the grain here and I feel that was jumped on at the first available opportunity. Promoting Townies to be active for more information helps everyone, not just the Townies but his post was tendered towards the Townies which I feel may be a guise. Needz moar infos You confused something, first I said i want to LD1, then i defended sciberbia. I've never even considered a NL in this game, but I don't claim that it doesn't make sense in any situation. In summary, the controversy about the policy talk seems to be dead to me. There is gonna be a D1 lynch. This is also a tl;dr version of the post for people who trust me anyway. Here, my updated statements regarding some of the players posting so far: Heist: I'll wait to see how he reacts to his arguments' dismissal now that sciberbia should be a confirmed townie. If I was scum, I'd know about his status and wouldn't have taken him into defense against a majority. However, given that i suspect others more for their passivity, I dont think that Heist is scum. Ange777: Stop lurking. I'll vote for you. Superouman: Stop making fun of a tragedy and sleeping all day, but more especially, stop lurking. I'll vote for you too when the time is ripe. Eishi_Ki: Pretty poor arguments to accuse me, but blends in well with the opinions of the former posts.You also say you have a reason to keep lurking. A win/win situation for mafia. You also suspect those who are most active here. Then there's this: Dude, what. How is it a good thing? You are basically saying that you won't contribute much to the scumhunt while the scumjuice flows out of your every pore. I don't even want to go on with other players cause I think you should start telling us more about your thought processes: ##VOTE :Eishi_Ki ++Exceptionally verbose ++Anti-lurker rage ++Suicidal: + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2012 05:52 Vivax wrote: I am confident that town will win anyway even if you lynch the wrong one. Once that's done, I hope that you focus on the real scum, I don't feel the points I made in my defense are weak, but it's easy to think a player is guilty when most of the information posted is about him, and day 2 has been mostly about me. You're doing the error of 'lynching the most controversial or outspoken player'. But feel free to make it, since Shiao and heist will have a lot of trouble nevertheless, cause I will flip town and their cases are extremely one-sided (towards me). Just mind that they have another kill at their disposal, I would opt for sciberbia if I were mafia right now. Was a fun first game, guys. But I need to work on my strat. ##Unvote heist ##Vote Vivax A previous scum game - Yet Another Normal Mini Mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388487&user=171343¤tpage=All --ROLECLAIMS VT --Digs deep into two targets simultaneously (WBG, stutters) --Night Action speculation --Then CONDEMNS it: + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 01:31 Vivax wrote: I don't like that you're speculating about the NK, and you'll need something more than that vote to nail debears. It's not uncommon for townies to have their vote on the wrong place, I'm rather worried about those having their vote suddenly on the right place for no strong reason, like Morbidius. --NEARLY CLAIMS SCUM: + Show Spoiler + On December 24 2012 01:01 Vivax wrote: Answer me why they wouldn't shoot yamato first. Since his uncontested miller claim he's the only one we can be 100 % sure of being townie. Maybe that's just my way of thinking from a scum perspective, but I would have chosen him over Toad, of whom you know something from meta and I don't. As for the other scum, it depends on how debears flips. Morbidius claimed cop in a casual way at an unscummy timing, so I'm believing it, that leads my earlier reads to shit. I'll have to reassess some reads, I'll judge WBG after the flip, Eywa is being lurky and roleplayed along with Wiggles, and I can't get a townread out of Prom yet, stutters is stutters, I've given up on pushing him, he's kinda in the grush category, such people are a vigis job. I can't imagine Palmar being scum at this point, same goes for sciberbia since his last collection of reads and his contribution to the Wiggles lynch. Iamp has been checked and the godfather is down, yamato is miller. Overall, I have a good feeling about this game, given that the godfather has been nailed D1 and we have so many blues. --Some hostility, allegedly bleeding over from another game. + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 06:29 Vivax wrote: And sorry for the language I've been playing too much in Hero Mini Mafia lately. Take out the retarded. Current game These are words I would use to describe Vivax filter this game: --Lots of one-liners ++Gratuitious quoting ++Self-deprecating: + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 09:33 Vivax wrote: Dude you're a newbie, no one is going to elect you. It's the sad truth and it also applies to me. Look how Toad speaks of my post like of a "nobody's" post. The Toad King of McDonald's Krautburgers only sees us as shit  Any candidates you like so far besides yourself? + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 10:35 Vivax wrote: What does everyone think about NachoMan picking me out of everyone else doing the same? Let's see, Toad made a guess, Wade is making guesses, Vivax made guesses. Who might be easier to lynch? Oh it's Vivax, everybody loves lynching Vivax. ++One long list post of some of his reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17886642 ++Intense interest in smurfs (can be translated to lurker rage) --Quoting starts to fall behind at some points ==Transition to analysis of the moment Question occurs to me looking at Vivax filter: Vivax, what makes you think I am town? Things I found in his filter regarding me from this game: ObviousOne first serious post was when he spat out his geript scumread that made me suspicious of him, I actually liked his answer, very townie cause bold along with his lighthearted early posts. Related to his town read on me: On February 27 2013 01:16 Vivax wrote: It's obvious milkman is yamato. Actually not sure if I want to lynch him. His head over heels blind frothing aggressiveness would mean he's likely town. But his points are so stupid and his behaviour so anti-town that I really feel like. On February 27 2013 02:37 Vivax wrote: Glurio, I think you're mistaking scumminess for uselessness when it comes to Oo. Scum would either lurk or appear tryhard, not appear useless. Regarding the Prom Flip: + Show Spoiler + Last on in the chronology and hotly disputed in the thread: Prom. There's a lot to work on with him. What bothers me about Prom is his unusual lack of confidence. He came dead serious into the thread with his RNG lynch idea, but didn't actually RNG anyone at that point, and even said he would lynch himself, which is a retarded thing to do when you know you're town. When people criticized him for his behaviour regarding the RNG, he quickly switched to a WoS lynch preference. Then he votes VE, who wants to lynch him. Again, a point towards scumprom, who would probably not want to get lynched as town, it looks like a subtle buddying attempt. Then again, it confuses me that he's been interacting in a way with VE that suggests that he would rethink his townread on me if just VE convinced him. That was after VE said he thinks I'm scum based on association with Prom (stupid reason). Trying to see this from a scumprom perspective, this doesn't make sense to me. A scumprom would probably try to convince VE that there is an association and that he's null or town on me to frame me for later. Instead he expressed being content with changing his read on me if VE convinced him. I am null on Prom given how he's been handling his reads of me. On February 27 2013 00:34 Vivax wrote: The important question is: We don't vote the lynch targets today, we vote the mayor, and to me it looks like there's lack of selection. VE looks dead set on me and Prom. Dunno about Prom, but I'm not voting for someone lynching me. If you vote for me, I'll lynch JJ or aqua. If anyone wants my vote, tell me who you would lynch and I will tell you if you have my support. On February 27 2013 03:08 Vivax wrote: There is no derailing the bandwagon, you genius. There is a mayoral election, and there are candidates. If I wanted to derail the bandwagon I'd be pushing for other candidates and not making clear what my stance on other players is. Maybe Prom is scum, maybe he isn't. In that case you want to know what I think of him in advance, and there you have it, deliberately. Now go even complaining about it that I shared my opinion about him, cause for all I cared I could also have stayed silent. The vet circle isn't an imagination, there's you ignoring my questions and not commenting on the things I wrote in my posts, calling the work of more than 2 hours meaningless while a single praise from VE to me is reason enough to get you down from your massive false-ego throne and bark at him. If Greymist didn't tell us to play nice I'd be cursing at you in 3 different languages for your terrible, bossy anti-town play. You didn't do nearly as much as VE in getting information out of Prome, yet try to pump yourself full of credit for something of which we don't even know the outcome of. There's you calling me scum scum for deliberately giving my analysis and reads on other players in such a huge game while there's probably scum among the lurkers laughing their asses off at your bad play, cause you prefer to shit at people for big, transparent posts than people not posting anything at all. According to Vivax Prom should have been all up in his business from the start given their history if Prom was scum. Because Prom didn't go that route, Vivax was in doubt. I don't see a reason for scum Vivax to need to proffer this explanation. Given he has been on the defensive I can see how he might take heat for not immediately going after Prom but it was very apparent with Prom's goodbye post that we weren't going to see him again with the general sentiment of the thread leaning scum on Prom and multiple candidates running for mayor who stated they would lynch him. His behavior has me mostly leaning town right this moment. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
It looked great at first glance, but from my first read I am not convinced he is leaning town. (or whether the content is actually that analytical...) e.g. I am not sure why focusing on smurfs is akin to lurker rage; nor why a large list post of reads is a clear town trait. The content in that list post.. well milkman summarised the fluff of it quite well. I appreciate the effort none-the-less. ============== JJ I read through aqua filter.. i am going to need more that your comments above for him to have traction (with me) I dont think aqua has been particularly useful, but, I like his filter regardless. Theres a degree of tunneling in there, that I think is more synonymous with town play vs scum play. Usually as scum I try to tunnel two or three players to keep my options open.. I dont see this in aqua filter. The major point i didnt like with him was his vote for Wade Fell, where he felt the need to still say OO was his top candidate, before committing to a prome lynch... that post read a bit forced + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 19:44 Aquanim wrote: OK, I buy this. ##Vote: Wade Fell I'm still in favour of a lynch on Obvious because I feel like he overreacted to my pressure on him and since my interaction with him all he has is a filter page's worth of useless fluff. In fact, all of Obvious's filter is useless fluff. There's more than one scum in the game though and I agree, Prom's failure to actually try to make anything happen with his RNG gambit does not evoke towny feelings. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
So, these cases. OO's case On February 28 2013 11:50 ObviousOne wrote: Aquanim believes that the Obvious One is a member of the cultist faction. His reasons are:
To these statements, I say that I am indeed guilty. Guilty. As. Charged. These aren't the reasons I said you were scum. I said you were scum for
So you've twisted what I said a little here. Let us now, however, turn the tables and see how well the Aquatic One follows his own advice. One case which he has been tunneling on for 48 hours: When Aquanim is not busy telling everyone that I am definitely scum, he is asking questions. A great many questions. His case on me from two real days ago seems to be able to stand on its own legs despite the vast amount of further spam and pointless drivel I have provided and he has NOT sought to strengthen his case with the newest information up to this point? If he hasn't developed his case on me, where are the other scum reads he has promised? To this I say, we shan't let you get off on coasting with having a single solitary voluntary scum read outside of the two most promising lynch candidates of Day 1. You cannot, as I have done, sit back and simply ask questions and go along with the prevailing theories of town while keeping me as your scum read and not keeping up on developing your case. I'd believe you were town if you had been pushing your own read as evidence developed. You are no better than I. The case will indeed be developed further with my thoughts on your more recent play. Stay tuned. Or how about the fact that both of us ask lots of questions, though we may choose different people to ask? Observe both of our filters, and see how each of us has many many questions and very little opinion or analysis. Either Aquanim is playing the same relative level of town that I am or he knows I'm town and has used my early read as an opportunistic strike to put me on my back foot. Again, nothing he has said about me is wrong, but his filter is not too much different. I'm not intentionally trying to be useless, I just have some level of bi-polar tendencies in that some days are good and others are bad, and the gap between is rather wide. Yesterday was bad, hopefully tomorrow is good. Well this is a straight-up OMGUS. Pretty much everything in this case is complaining about my case on you (and perhaps how it applies to me as well). I didn't really see the point in posting serious cases after about midway through D1. I much prefer to pressure someone when I can actually threaten them with a lynch, and the Prom lynch was pretty much cemented. My play was focusing on dissecting cases made by other people (geript and Vivax in particular iirc) and thinking about whether they were sincere. JJ's case On February 28 2013 13:02 JungleJorge wrote: While reading through prom's filter I noticed his interactions with aquanim looked pretty forced. I decided then to investigate further and came across this gem. Notice he wants to vote Wade Fell and DocH, both of which intend to lynch prom and that is the main driving force of their campaign as mayor. But look he hasn't even a formed opinion on prom still, and we get even a soft defense as a bonus! Look at the tone of this whole post and how noncommittal he is with everything he says regarding other players. Now why would a player who doesn't believe prom is scum would ever "vote for DocH if he wanted it"? The sheer inherent guilt from this post is sickening. I'm extremely confident this man is scum, even more so than TMM and RO. If we have any vigs take a shot at this man. I was happy with a vote for WF or DocH because I thought DocH was town and after talking to him about the Prom case I was very sure WF was town (see: mayoral vote). My priority for mayor was voting for a strong player whom I had a town read on. If I had convinced myself that Prom was town, I'd have tried to convince them of it rather than switching to someone else. Not having a firm opinion on Prom isn't inconsistent with wanting WF or DocH as mayor. Also, I don't see how this is a defence of Prom. I said "I don't know whether this case is good". At that point I didn't. Saying that the case was "mostly based on trends in his play rather than specifically scummy actions" wasn't a statement that the case was bad, merely that without a better understanding of Prom's meta (and thus his trends as town or scum) I couldn't reach a firm conclusion. For the record I never did end up looking at Prom's meta - his failure to try to make anything happen with his RNG gambit was in fact a "specifically scummy action" and was the point that convinced me. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On February 28 2013 14:53 Aquanim wrote: Heyoo I'm back. So, these cases. OO's case These aren't the reasons I said you were scum. I said you were scum for
So you've twisted what I said a little here. The case will indeed be developed further with my thoughts on your more recent play. Stay tuned. Well this is a straight-up OMGUS. Pretty much everything in this case is complaining about my case on you (and perhaps how it applies to me as well). I didn't really see the point in posting serious cases after about midway through D1. I much prefer to pressure someone when I can actually threaten them with a lynch, and the Prom lynch was pretty much cemented. My play was focusing on dissecting cases made by other people (geript and Vivax in particular iirc) and thinking about whether they were sincere. JJ's case I was happy with a vote for WF or DocH because I thought DocH was town and after talking to him about the Prom case I was very sure WF was town (see: mayoral vote). My priority for mayor was voting for a strong player whom I had a town read on. If I had convinced myself that Prom was town, I'd have tried to convince them of it rather than switching to someone else. Not having a firm opinion on Prom isn't inconsistent with wanting WF or DocH as mayor. Also, I don't see how this is a defence of Prom. I said "I don't know whether this case is good". At that point I didn't. Saying that the case was "mostly based on trends in his play rather than specifically scummy actions" wasn't a statement that the case was bad, merely that without a better understanding of Prom's meta (and thus his trends as town or scum) I couldn't reach a firm conclusion. For the record I never did end up looking at Prom's meta - his failure to try to make anything happen with his RNG gambit was in fact a "specifically scummy action" and was the point that convinced me. I'm one of the easiest possible opportunities in the game outside of Prom to categorize as scum. There's already a call for a vig hit on me so you can hold off on making it tonight and I won't hold it against you. Maybe do some other analysis until then. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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JungleJorge
Uganda104 Posts
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