EPTI have to go out for a bit, will be here before deadline hopefully.
TL Mafia LX - Page 74
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
I have to go out for a bit, will be here before deadline hopefully. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 27 2013 16:06 geript wrote: @Mocsta&Dr.H I need to get sleep before class in the am. I'll be back to answer these around noonish hopefully. @WF I'll answer you then too when I'm a bit more clear headed. I asked you a yes or no question, but alright. On February 27 2013 18:30 Vivax wrote: This post made my scumdar go off, this guy asked two questions about OO earlier but stopped pushing him despite posting the posts at the bottom earlier. He's currently agreeing with VE on Toad, but he never pressures Oo despite having a scumread on him, he just keeps asking others about their opinion on him. I asked questions of WoS and then stopped pushing him to discuss something else. I stopped pushing you to discuss something else. ObviousOne has actually been a fairly big part of the last 5-6 pages of discussion, so if anything Aquanim did his job. This reads off as a desperate attempt at deflecting suspicion onto a player that has done literally nothing scummy. Maybe I do have to read your last game as town to see if your play is usually this nonsensical. Otherwise, I'll likely be pushing you tomorrow. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
For the record, I’m doing this because I haven’t contributed in a while and it’ll help me get my own thoughts in order as well as hopefully draw attention to those people (such as me) who are going ignored and unscrutinized. (I'm sick of Prom/Vivax talk if you can't tell. Just lynch 'em both and get it over with.) I can go into more detail on any of these if requested (as well as talk about those not included whose filter is actually substantial), and this will give other people opportunity to look at me as well if curious (though I don’t think anyone is). Toad: Pretty strong town-read. He jumped on Prom with VE real early and for whatever reason is/was under attack (weakly) from Vivax. Not following VE’s logic as to why he’s mafia to be honest, his defenses check out, and that makes me worry a little about VE, to be honest. Grush: Null…mebbe scum-leaning. His filter is too short and useless to reveal anything about him, and to be completely honest I have no clue wtf that starsenses thing is about. Jcarlsoniv: Scummy, though I could see blue or black. (Apparently his record is almost exclusively VT which is kinda funny, but whatever) Should be contributing a hell of a lot more than he has, hasn’t answered a multitude of questions answered him later on in the day but earlier on was aggressive and made a couple of decent analysis posts on a few of the less-analyzed people. Appears overall as wanting to contribute but afraid to for whatever reason, again either because scum or avoiding attention (blue/black). The longer he goes without something of value the scummier he looks to me. The Milkman: Huge lurk but when he is around, is useful. Dissected the crap out of Vivax’s ‘reads’ post and did a good job. Town read. Geript: Null. The problem with him are his short posts that hide behind the façade of calm psychological analysis when in reality he knows absolutely nothing about anyone. (Case and point, which I have brought up before, his ridiculous tunneling of me early.) He talks about how he bases his reads on behavioural analysis and whatnot so as I’ve stated before this makes his reads really bad and untrustworthy, or he’s scum. Honestly I could see either. Glurio: Null. His lack of posting and uselessness is pretty standard play in both his recent mafia and town games. Prom: Not gonna rape the dead horse. I’m still kinda interested to see what a flip means for other people in the thread but I realized that was gonna need more analysis that I could do in the state I was in. I’ll probably just let this one flip and let Dr.H take the reins as he said he would do whether Prom flipped scum or town. Restraining Order: One of the only people who actually liked my idea early game. Changed his vote off of me before Dr.H shut me down hard but the vote wagon had already started so tough to say if trying to hide or not. Null. DoctorHelvetica: Apparently has something about me that was bothering him but didn’t elaborate because I always seem to slip under the radar despite trying to help. He initially like my idea but then flipped around on it real quickly and shut it down. Says he doesn’t care about being mayor but then very obviously and clearly does. His reads are clear and strong, and he is very pro-town. Seems as though he has a very specific agenda in mind but I’m not 100% sure it’s going to end up in town’s favor after today. Still gonna go with town despite the above. Aquanim: Questionsquestionsquestionsquestions. A lot of lurk, and very few answers. Says he’s in favor of an OO lynch D2 which I could get behind but I would want to know why exactly. Why no heavy analysis? Null. Chaosbear: modkill fodder The Macho Man/iamp: Calls for everyone to focus on scumhunting early game but does no such hunting himself – only reactionary counterarguments to Vivax calling him out and a soft defense of Prom. All he does the rest of the thread is call people out without any analysis and telling people to scumhunt. Weak attempts and trying to look like he’s contributing. Scummy. TestSubject: I’m not a fan of meta analysis but based on the way he jumped into last NMM, this is a really weak showing from him. Null read, but I expect more from him and like Soniv the longer he goes without doing much the scummier he gets. Randombum: Tough call. Makes a big show of saying his reads are accurate but then posts a dumb plan and disappears. Then makes a great case on OO and then disappears. Really wish I could see more from him but apparently we won’t be seeing him until next day? Also bothers me that although good, the case on OO is too easy to make. Leaning scum until I see otherwise. VayeshMoru: His posts are strangely entertaining yet piss me off at the same time because he hasn’t CONTRIBUTED, only agrees or disagrees with others. Null. Layabout: lurky but his posts and questions get better as the day progresses. His list of lynch targets for D1 is dumb as hell especially since he gives no reasons why. Defends Prom and is against TestSubject`s thoughts of not trusting Dr.H 100%. This one`s tough imo, motivations scream scum but I`m having a hard time with it for whatever reason. Scum-leaning I guess? JungleJorge: Too little to go on. Says he’s ‘withholding info’ and has reads ie. TMM but is going for a Prom lynch because he wouldn’t be able to dissuade anyone anyway. Had better deliver on his ‘information,’ otherwise in the same boat as the other two who I expect more from. Scum-leaning. Hassybaby: Soooo many excuses as to his lack of play. Want more contribution from him. Null. Chezinu: Who the fuck knows, but I want him gone anyway. As for my vote I can honestly say I’m not 100% sure of either Dr. H or VE, but since my earlier idea will not gain any traction it’s going to be the two of them whether I like it or not. ##vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Prom: Not gonna rape the dead horse. I’m still kinda interested to see what a flip means for other people in the thread but I realized that was gonna need more analysis that I could do in the state I was in. I’ll probably just let this one flip and let Dr.H take the reins as he said he would do whether Prom flipped scum or town. and Jcarlsoniv: Scummy, though I could see blue or black. (Apparently his record is almost exclusively VT which is kinda funny, but whatever) Should be contributing a hell of a lot more than he has, hasn’t answered a multitude of questions people asked him later on in the day but earlier on was aggressive and made a couple of decent analysis posts on a few of the less-analyzed people. Appears overall as wanting to contribute but afraid to for whatever reason, again either because scum or avoiding attention (blue/black). The longer he goes without something of value the scummier he looks to me. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I care about the election as a means to an end - to the day 1 lynch. I look at the election as nothing more than a lynch vote. I do not care about the ROLE, only the decision. What was your idea again, I don't remember making any comments regarding a plan of yours or anything. You'll have to deal with the fact that my train of thought isn't clear. I will never tell town straight up what I want to do tomorrow, who I'm suspecting in my head, or give any kind of list of reads or anything like that. I hate that style of play, I think it's cancerous and I won't do it. This bothers a lot of townies and they feel like I'm not transparent enough or something. I say they should go read Ver's guide again. If you really are having a hard time understanding my logic/methods, just ask me and I'm fine with explaining them as long as I feel it serves a purpose. By the way - a player asking a lot of questions/avoiding heavy analysis isn't indicative of scum by itself. Certain players like VisceraEyes, just play that way. Bothers me, but it does put some form of pressure so it's not completely wasteful. Particularly I find that newer players like to ask questions and put on pressure while parroting veteran players who write longer cases, or they choose instead to expand on them. What you can (and should) look for are statements/attitudes like this (on a player who does not scumhunt/put heavy pressure on anyone): -Why aren't you scumhunting? -Any post containing an FoS where irrelevant information (town plans, mayors, RNGs, null reads, etc.) are 80% of that post i.e. the accusation is just a postscript in a long post of bullshit -Yeah, I'm gonna scumhunt tomorrow, I just need some time to keep reading filters /im waiting for the flip but Day 2 im gonna kick ass... -Asks questions/accuses only or almost only players that are not being discussed/have very few posts/seems to be diverting attention away from current discussion @Hassybaby - Why do you think Vivax is scum? Have you been reading the thread up until this point? It would be nice to hear from you, because right now almost all your posts are defending yourself when you are in basically no danger of being lynched. I find that a little worrisome. | ||
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The Milkman
Mongolia140 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No one loves list posts. They have absolutely zero value to anyone but you, keep it in a notepad (out of the thread) until your thoughts are organized and only posts the information that is relevant to your case. They also make tracking additional deaths during the night from possible vigilantes a little harder. But that's just additional info for personal consideration because as always WIFOM argument is here to stay. I don't get it why try to pin someone down as SK. That's just as meaningless as trying to determine what smurf is who. Also DrH, you'd rather see yourself elected as pardoner or BH? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:15 The Milkman wrote: They also make tracking additional deaths during the night from possible vigilantes a little harder. But that's just additional info for personal consideration because as always WIFOM argument is here to stay. I don't get it why try to pin someone down as SK. That's just as meaningless as trying to determine what smurf is who. Also DrH, you'd rather see yourself elected as pardoner or BH? I understand the aversion to list-posts but it's been so long since I contributed and my lack-of-sleep state preventing me from heavy filter diving and analysis...it was basically this or lurk the rest of D1 and to be frank, I'd least like to attempt to contribute. How exactly does a list make vig tracking more difficult? And as far as SK is concerned, I'm not trying to pin him down necessarily, just highlighting the fact that I see Soniv as anything but VT right now. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On February 27 2013 23:42 The Milkman wrote: So okay, layabout is doing his usual null aggressive play, wants to kill Wade no matter the alignment and does not want to lynch promethelax for a reason that it is not his fault that there was no discussion on rng. Je defends me not on the principle of what I have done or not but defends me because he thinks there was not enough time yet to scumhunt or contribute heavily. I do not quite understand this point. Layabout, are you saying that so far you could only do null blabber? An answer would be appreciated. I dont find you scummy, just reluctance to lynch promethelax, your defense of me and somehow putting Grush57 on lynch list while you did not agree with policy lynches at the very start of the game make me wonder what is the reasoning behind all of that. Blabber:I thought we had a 72 hour day 1 i had read the daypost more than once as friday not thursday sometimes my brain just does that. Also it seems that prom is being lynched whatever happens. So i wasn't as bothered about finding scum. My preference for mayor was Dr.h because there was a chance he might lynch jcarl and i wasn't sure about VE's campaign. I have also been trying to have more of a thread presence while i am here because over time i consolidated more and tended to lurk as both town and mafia. In fruity my last game if i hadn't been correct in pushing yamato i would have made a good lynch because of my lurking. I also was not the one able to push the lynch even though i put the most content up about him. I also tend to wait before commiting to reads because people don't have much time to post meanfully early on and i like to take my time to sort out my thoughts. With regards to Prom, read his filter and tell me why it should be different if he is town, i feel like he has done what he should as town and thus does not deserve to be lynched. Grush is there because i think he filter was a lot better in fruity and there are other players that look more towny than he does. I defended you due to both the scumhunting point and the fact that i think your town, in part because of your reaction to the vivax analysis. I don't think i was clear enough when i talked about the lack of scumhunting initially but there isn't much i can do about it now. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Let's say we have Player A and Player B. Player A is the leading candidate for a lynch on Day 2. Many players are accusing him aggressively. Player B defends Player A. He says that Player A has seemed very town-like to him so far in this game and he's not understanding the logic that some people are using to attack A. He would prefer to lynch Player X. Player A is lynched at the end of the day and flips mafia. What do we do now? Do we lynch Player B? Some people would say yes, but their instinct is most definitely wrong. From that information alone, I can not know if Player B was a helpful mafia teammate or a misguided town. In most games where I was scum, at least one townie has defended me in thread. In most games where I am townie, I have defended someone who was scum at some point or another. Like I defended WBG in Storm Mafia in favor of lynching VisceraEyes who was town. These things happens. So the real way we determine if Player B was mafia or not is we look back at his filter and go through the usual checklist of things that are scummy. Did his defense of Player A seem to come from a place of genuine misunderstanding, tunnel vision on another player, or plain old stupidity? Then that doesn't seem very mafia like. Is the rest of his post history scummy? Chainsaw defense? Wishywashy? Inherent guilt? Those are the real metrics we use to measure someones guilt. A flip is just context, it's useless until you plug that information to that filter. So whatever Prom flips doesn't really change guilty because anyone that looks scummy already (or town already) should look the same way whether Prom is town or scum. It definitely pushes back the JJ read for me, only because of the odd nature of his defense, but those kind of things don't happen that often. Even still, mafia will definitely defend townies up for lynch. ObviousOne (who is obviousscum as far as many of you are concerned) has buddied hard to me earlier in this thread. I've defended and buddied town players as scum, it's a survival tactic. Even if Prom flipped green, if I go through JJ's filter and see him showing signs of scum behavior, I will likely conclude he is scum regardless of the flip. It shouldn't matter that much. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:15 The Milkman wrote: They also make tracking additional deaths during the night from possible vigilantes a little harder. But that's just additional info for personal consideration because as always WIFOM argument is here to stay. I don't get it why try to pin someone down as SK. That's just as meaningless as trying to determine what smurf is who. Also DrH, you'd rather see yourself elected as pardoner or BH? i dont care who is pardoner or mayor as long as promethelax is lynched | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:22 layabout wrote: Blabber:I thought we had a 72 hour day 1 i had read the daypost more than once as friday not thursday sometimes my brain just does that. Also it seems that prom is being lynched whatever happens. So i wasn't as bothered about finding scum. My preference for mayor was Dr.h because there was a chance he might lynch jcarl and i wasn't sure about VE's campaign. I have also been trying to have more of a thread presence while i am here because over time i consolidated more and tended to lurk as both town and mafia. In fruity my last game if i hadn't been correct in pushing yamato i would have made a good lynch because of my lurking. I also was not the one able to push the lynch even though i put the most content up about him. I also tend to wait before commiting to reads because people don't have much time to post meanfully early on and i like to take my time to sort out my thoughts. With regards to Prom, read his filter and tell me why it should be different if he is town, i feel like he has done what he should as town and thus does not deserve to be lynched. Grush is there because i think he filter was a lot better in fruity and there are other players that look more towny than he does. I defended you due to both the scumhunting point and the fact that i think your town, in part because of your reaction to the vivax analysis. I don't think i was clear enough when i talked about the lack of scumhunting initially but there isn't much i can do about it now. Town doesn't martyr themselves and give up when they have a ripe chance to defend themselves. Town also doesn't (r shouldn't rather) put up bullshit fluff, put no effort into it, then later claim it was for the purpose of productive discussion. I hate this kind of defense, that you can just say any useless thing then later say you were just looking to see how people would respond. What kind of response are you looking for? You're being so passive this game and it's really bugging me. I'll be taking a close look at you later. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I think i prefer VE as mayor since his reads are better but we should really sort this out. Also dr.h did you find any substance on jcarl? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Town doesn't martyr themselves and give up when they have a ripe chance to defend themselves. Town also doesn't (r shouldn't rather) put up bullshit fluff, put no effort into it, then later claim it was for the purpose of productive discussion. I hate this kind of defense, that you can just say any useless thing then later say you were just looking to see how people would respond. What kind of response are you looking for? You're being so passive this game and it's really bugging me. I'll be taking a close look at you later. What martyring? I haven't pushed scum because i don't have a player that i think is scum and want to push in thread. +what i have i claimed was in the purpose of productive discussion? | ||
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The Milkman
Mongolia140 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:22 layabout wrote: Blabber:I thought we had a 72 hour day 1 i had read the daypost more than once as friday not thursday sometimes my brain just does that. Also it seems that prom is being lynched whatever happens. So i wasn't as bothered about finding scum. My preference for mayor was Dr.h because there was a chance he might lynch jcarl and i wasn't sure about VE's campaign. I have also been trying to have more of a thread presence while i am here because over time i consolidated more and tended to lurk as both town and mafia. In fruity my last game if i hadn't been correct in pushing yamato i would have made a good lynch because of my lurking. I also was not the one able to push the lynch even though i put the most content up about him. I also tend to wait before commiting to reads because people don't have much time to post meanfully early on and i like to take my time to sort out my thoughts. With regards to Prom, read his filter and tell me why it should be different if he is town, i feel like he has done what he should as town and thus does not deserve to be lynched. Grush is there because i think he filter was a lot better in fruity and there are other players that look more towny than he does. I defended you due to both the scumhunting point and the fact that i think your town, in part because of your reaction to the vivax analysis. I don't think i was clear enough when i talked about the lack of scumhunting initially but there isn't much i can do about it now. Okay. So I guess I should call you later just like it works with Palmar? Be ready to talk during N1 or early D2 then  That does not mean I will magically start ignoring you or whatever, I'll still read your posts and react accordingly of course. As for Promethelax, even before his flight after he got put into our lynch kettle his posts started to lack content and be more about fluff and just general flailing around. As for that "discussion" thing, well, I think this posts explains how Prome thinks discussion looks On February 26 2013 09:30 Promethelax wrote: Yes? But the idea of a random lynch is good. You should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck, which I'm assuming. I have never been so convinced about something in my entire puny life. Thanks to that I don't suck! On February 28 2013 02:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i dont care who is pardoner or mayor as long as promethelax is lynched Okay. That's a good enough. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:35 layabout wrote: What martyring? I haven't pushed scum because i don't have a player that i think is scum and want to push in thread. +what i have i claimed was in the purpose of productive discussion? I'm talking about Prom. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
You never responded to my question about Toad Doc. Though it was a little abrasive, I still would like a response. Toad has exhibited behavior that exhibits having an agenda - namely his insistence on being "recognized" as the genesis of the Prom lynch and (what I perceive to be) discrediting of me before I was a serious candidate for mayor. I'd like your thoughts on Toadesstern, and I'd like you to walk me through any town read you have on him considering you're an in-thread kind of guy and not a meta guy. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 28 2013 02:30 layabout wrote: Can we get a few more votes onto dr.h so he can be pardoner? I think i prefer VE as mayor since his reads are better but we should really sort this out. Also dr.h did you find any substance on jcarl? VE tries to get me lynched. Does not compute. | ||
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