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On February 24 2013 00:01 HiroPro wrote: I might need another player to take Palmar's spot. Just post here if you want to play.
I can fill for Palmar if you need a player, though I don't want to cut in front of the replacements if either Prome or Supersoft wants a crack at it.
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Howdy town! Fresh off a break from mafia, and it's nice to roll town again =)
@ Marv
There was one other thing I had a vague idea about. Maybe if we can decide on a good target or two, we should get the two 'scummiest' dudes to duel each other. Seems like that might be a decent idea anyway.
I was thinking along these lines as well. A majority of discussion (time wise) revolves AFTER the duel is called. We don't want to get in situations where people with a super-townie reputation are calling duels themselves. Calling a duel like that would be more like a vigi shot than anything else.
The only potential problem would be enforcement. The only way we can get two "scummy" players up on the block is if one of them calls a duel, which is directly against their own interests (town or scum). This is where we need to enforce a policy lynch IMO - if town asks you to duel, and you do not, you get lynched next cycle.
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On February 25 2013 04:10 yamato77 wrote: You're going to have a hard enough time choosing one player you want dead, much less two.
This a problem? I've never had problems being super-paranoid early days.
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@ Yamato
On February 25 2013 05:55 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:05 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 04:10 yamato77 wrote: You're going to have a hard enough time choosing one player you want dead, much less two. This a problem? I've never had problems being super-paranoid early days. I'm talking about consolidation and getting town to agree on the choices, not personal reads. Picking two people that everyone agrees are scummy is many times more difficult than picking just one person and having a townie player duel them and get them lynched.
Conflict and controversy tends to lead to additional discussion. It's "unanimous" lynches that lead to problems and inactive towns. We have 48-hours of discussion AFTER the duel is chosen for a reason. We can't have a policy that pre-determines our lynch actions in a 24-hour duel-choice period.
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I feel like you're treating this too much like the wild-west and not enough like a mafia game Yamato. The Duel mechanic can absolutely fuck us over if used rashly.
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On February 25 2013 06:31 yamato77 wrote: ... For the record, if the deadline is coming up and people are arguing incessantly about these two choices, I'm going to just pick one and lynch him. I'm your insurance, I suppose, because my method isn't a best-case scenario idea of the lynch like getting town to consolidate on two choices.
We're in the night-cycle right now no? We have ~50 hours left until we need to chose a duel.
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On February 25 2013 06:39 yamato77 wrote: What you're proposing is a policy, and one that is insanely difficult to enforce.
I understand how having one town looking player duel one mafia looking player might stagnate discussion after the duel. I do think I will be able to extract enough information from the selection period to make a good lynch decision on my own, however, should town fail to implement you guy's plan effectively.
Hence the policy I proposed earlier.
@ Marv
On February 25 2013 05:03 marvellosity wrote: yeah I'll talk about it more after dinner. I don't like Corazon already.
Can you expand on Cora?
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On February 25 2013 06:47 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 06:46 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 06:39 yamato77 wrote: What you're proposing is a policy, and one that is insanely difficult to enforce.
I understand how having one town looking player duel one mafia looking player might stagnate discussion after the duel. I do think I will be able to extract enough information from the selection period to make a good lynch decision on my own, however, should town fail to implement you guy's plan effectively. Hence the policy I proposed earlier. @ MarvOn February 25 2013 05:03 marvellosity wrote: yeah I'll talk about it more after dinner. I don't like Corazon already. Can you expand on Cora? Policies are bad, because no one ever follows them and even if you do, it's a fucking policy and there's no discussion. Hapa you're not this retarded.
What in the fuck... /wrists
First of all, the "policy" I proposed is not a deviation from common sense. If we ask a person to duel another person, and he refuses to do so, that person is suspicious as fuck and should be considered a lynch candidate.
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Your analogy is stupid.
Here's a better one: what do we get more discussion from? a) A contest between two people for a lynch. b) A lynch-mob where we have only one logical lynch option?
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Ok this is getting nowhere.
@ Cora
On February 25 2013 05:17 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:03 marvellosity wrote: yeah I'll talk about it more after dinner. I don't like Corazon already. If you've ever seen any of my other games, you'll find that no one ever likes me...
Let's not start with the "woe is me" attitude. Why did people not like you in your previous games, and what are you going to do about it this game?
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Yamato, I know we're not agreeing over general policy and whatnot, but just promise me that you'll atleast seek the town's input before you go "IT'S TIME TO D-D-D-D-D-DUEL!" Playing hero can end really really badly.
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Corazon, I get the impression that you're more concerned with calling Sylencia a dick rather than anything else. It's fine if you don't get along with him, but it does nothing for town objectives.
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@ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me.
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@ Oats
On February 25 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey guys, Cora is scummy for wanting to lynch rouge players and not actually scum, and in no way linking rouge play to playing like scum. Marv is also kinda suspicious. He seems too polite and that policy post had pregame written all over it.
Two things about this post: 1) It sounds a lot like you're jumping on Cora by taking his one statement about "rouge players" out of context. He's been pretty vocal about Yamato, and I think it's pretty clear that he links Yamato's behavior to scummy behavior. 2) That Marv read makes no sense. If you actually read his filter, I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that he's been over-polite. Example:
On February 25 2013 06:46 marvellosity wrote: It's not insanely difficult to enforce. It should be not too hard to find at least the group of people we want to lynch into, and then give a deadline/ultimatum for 2 of them to duel, or if there's 1 clear frontrunner, give a couple of people the choice of whether they want to duel with the frontrunner.
Actually the information you'll get from how people deal with this while under suspicion is probably far greater than any information you'll get from just having one clear townie dueling with someone suspicious. Whether ppl duel like they're asked, or go afk, how the suspects deal with the whole dueling situation - there's a whole mine of good shit there.
Further, I overwhelmingly back my judgement on who mafia are and are not over yours, yamato, so the last thing I need is you running off playing the hero.
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On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog?
I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post.
As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point:
On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me
On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon.
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On February 25 2013 11:17 Oatsmaster wrote:Am I supposed to respond to that Hapa? Or is that friendly advice? Show nested quote +Further, I overwhelmingly back my judgement on who mafia are and are not over yours, yamato, so the last thing I need is you running off playing the hero. This is polite. Show nested quote +Chezinu rarely, if ever, starts coming up with his good reads during the first cycle. And we are electing a mayor in the first cycle. So yes, I am writing him off. Unless you have some hitherto unheard of method of reading Chezinu on day 1 that you would like to share with us?
This is rude.
Yes I expected a response, but I have no idea how you ended up making that distinction above.
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On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid.
How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative?
Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours.
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On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes.
Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now.
Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so.
Y u so scummy iamp?
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On February 25 2013 11:40 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? lol i have to explain why dino first post was scummy to you??? how about you go read it.
Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn.
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On February 25 2013 11:41 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:41 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:40 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? lol i have to explain why dino first post was scummy to you??? how about you go read it. Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn. dino was so easy to read in chrono checkmate
Was typing something, but Acro said it better than I could. What Acro said.
Also, what about Snarfs? In fact, I got the opposite impression from his post. It seemed genuine and excited.
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Oh well shit I did miss that post by Iamp on Snarfs. WELP.
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On February 25 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote:Somewhat suspicious. Witness: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 03:06 Snarfs wrote: Ahhh yesss!! Finally a game where I'm not mafia! It's been too long. Far too long.
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it.
Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels.
Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals. this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing discuss. iamp hasn't posted so much that Hapa should be missing that iamp has in fact commented on why he thought Snarfs was suspicious.
Oh come on Marv. I miss shit like that all the time as town and you know it.
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On February 25 2013 11:51 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:46 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 11:41 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:41 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:40 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote: [quote]
I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post.
As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point:
[quote] [quote]
did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? lol i have to explain why dino first post was scummy to you??? how about you go read it. Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn. dino was so easy to read in chrono checkmate That's a complete misrepresentation of dino in that game and you know it. Dieno's claim to townhood was making a plan which was ridiculous and coming up with a crazy campaign for team leader. He also claimed in order to get included in the party. All-in-all, it was enough for a town read on a complete newbie. Dieno is no longer a complete newbie. Also, Dieno was mislynched in Parallel Universe for his wishy washy opening post and not delivering afterwards. If you're trying to say Dieno is scum for not living up to CT, you need to do better than that and read his other games as well. So far I have no clue about Dieno's alignment, but the meta you just plonked in here is completely wrong. not really everybody else needed that stuff i had him pegged as town after two posts. didnt read parallel
Missing the point. He was being an attention-whore in Chrono and posting wild pictures to be elected mayor (first few posts). That's a completely different situation from what we're in.
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On February 25 2013 11:56 marvellosity wrote:no idea how i fucked that one up Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:52 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote:On February 25 2013 11:43 yamato77 wrote: Marv, what do you think of Hapa? Somewhat suspicious. Witness: On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote: @ Yamato + Cora Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote: Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 03:06 Snarfs wrote: Ahhh yesss!! Finally a game where I'm not mafia! It's been too long. Far too long.
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it.
Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels.
Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals. this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing discuss. iamp hasn't posted so much that Hapa should be missing that iamp has in fact commented on why he thought Snarfs was suspicious. Oh come on Marv. I miss shit like that all the time as town and you know it. the fact remains that you basically haven't done anything this game except attack iamp, and you've done so under false pretenses. I have no real reason to think of you as town right now
False pretenses? That's just one of the several reasons I'm suspicious of him right now. I think he's scummy due to his his nonsensical Thrawn read, as well has him name-dropping Dieno.
On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon.
Also, this post in general is really scummy in context. Why on earth is he answering a question for Corazon? In fact his posts right after that suggests that he's suspicious of Cora at point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#221 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#222
The thought-process makes no sense. He's suspicious of Cora, yet he's willing to answer questions for him? Nope.
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On February 25 2013 12:11 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:03 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:56 marvellosity wrote:no idea how i fucked that one up On February 25 2013 11:52 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote:On February 25 2013 11:43 yamato77 wrote: Marv, what do you think of Hapa? Somewhat suspicious. Witness: On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote: [quote]
I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post.
As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point:
[quote] [quote]
did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 03:06 Snarfs wrote: Ahhh yesss!! Finally a game where I'm not mafia! It's been too long. Far too long.
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it.
Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels.
Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals. this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing discuss. iamp hasn't posted so much that Hapa should be missing that iamp has in fact commented on why he thought Snarfs was suspicious. Oh come on Marv. I miss shit like that all the time as town and you know it. the fact remains that you basically haven't done anything this game except attack iamp, and you've done so under false pretenses. I have no real reason to think of you as town right now False pretenses? That's just one of the several reasons I'm suspicious of him right now. I think he's scummy due to his his nonsensical Thrawn read, as well has him name-dropping Dieno. On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. Also, this post in general is really scummy in context. Why on earth is he answering a question for Corazon? In fact his posts right after that suggests that he's suspicious of Cora at point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#221http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#222The thought-process makes no sense. He's suspicious of Cora, yet he's willing to answer questions for him? Nope. for someone that has played a ton of games with me it seems like you are puzzled by my actions. dont get it hapa and this is still the only thing you are doing is commenting on me. If this is what you plan on doing all cycle i think you have to be scum. your tunneling of me for no reason other than you dont like some of my reads. explain how any of my actions are scummy am i afraid of the spotlight? am i interested in lynching scum? you havent done any of that and wont comment on anything else despite saying you have more material. maybe your just bad at scum hapa
I'll admit you're getting better with the "spotlight" and "activity" thing.
Though answer what I posted above: why were you answering questions for Corazon?
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On February 25 2013 12:14 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:13 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 12:11 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 12:03 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:56 marvellosity wrote:no idea how i fucked that one up On February 25 2013 11:52 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote:On February 25 2013 11:43 yamato77 wrote: Marv, what do you think of Hapa? Somewhat suspicious. Witness: On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote: [quote]
How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative?
Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours.
yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 03:06 Snarfs wrote: Ahhh yesss!! Finally a game where I'm not mafia! It's been too long. Far too long.
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it.
Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels.
Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals. this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing discuss. iamp hasn't posted so much that Hapa should be missing that iamp has in fact commented on why he thought Snarfs was suspicious. Oh come on Marv. I miss shit like that all the time as town and you know it. the fact remains that you basically haven't done anything this game except attack iamp, and you've done so under false pretenses. I have no real reason to think of you as town right now False pretenses? That's just one of the several reasons I'm suspicious of him right now. I think he's scummy due to his his nonsensical Thrawn read, as well has him name-dropping Dieno. On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. Also, this post in general is really scummy in context. Why on earth is he answering a question for Corazon? In fact his posts right after that suggests that he's suspicious of Cora at point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#221http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#222The thought-process makes no sense. He's suspicious of Cora, yet he's willing to answer questions for him? Nope. for someone that has played a ton of games with me it seems like you are puzzled by my actions. dont get it hapa and this is still the only thing you are doing is commenting on me. If this is what you plan on doing all cycle i think you have to be scum. your tunneling of me for no reason other than you dont like some of my reads. explain how any of my actions are scummy am i afraid of the spotlight? am i interested in lynching scum? you havent done any of that and wont comment on anything else despite saying you have more material. maybe your just bad at scum hapa I'll admit you're getting better with the "spotlight" and "activity" thing. Though answer what I posted above: why were you answering questions for Corazon? because i felt like it.
Fuck it that a town iamp response if I've ever seen one. Time to look into some other peeps.
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@ Dieno
... As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now.
Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town.
Bring it on.
Wait what? You think Adam is scum just because he made a post on you? Bit of an overreaction there.
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Geezus why am I always 5 second late.
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On February 25 2013 12:22 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:18 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 12:14 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 12:13 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 12:11 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 12:03 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:56 marvellosity wrote:no idea how i fucked that one up On February 25 2013 11:52 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote:On February 25 2013 11:43 yamato77 wrote: Marv, what do you think of Hapa? Somewhat suspicious. Witness: On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote: [quote]
Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now.
Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so.
Y u so scummy iamp? On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote: [quote] this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view
says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing
discuss. iamp hasn't posted so much that Hapa should be missing that iamp has in fact commented on why he thought Snarfs was suspicious. Oh come on Marv. I miss shit like that all the time as town and you know it. the fact remains that you basically haven't done anything this game except attack iamp, and you've done so under false pretenses. I have no real reason to think of you as town right now False pretenses? That's just one of the several reasons I'm suspicious of him right now. I think he's scummy due to his his nonsensical Thrawn read, as well has him name-dropping Dieno. On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. Also, this post in general is really scummy in context. Why on earth is he answering a question for Corazon? In fact his posts right after that suggests that he's suspicious of Cora at point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#221http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#222The thought-process makes no sense. He's suspicious of Cora, yet he's willing to answer questions for him? Nope. for someone that has played a ton of games with me it seems like you are puzzled by my actions. dont get it hapa and this is still the only thing you are doing is commenting on me. If this is what you plan on doing all cycle i think you have to be scum. your tunneling of me for no reason other than you dont like some of my reads. explain how any of my actions are scummy am i afraid of the spotlight? am i interested in lynching scum? you havent done any of that and wont comment on anything else despite saying you have more material. maybe your just bad at scum hapa I'll admit you're getting better with the "spotlight" and "activity" thing. Though answer what I posted above: why were you answering questions for Corazon? because i felt like it. Fuck it that a town iamp response if I've ever seen one. Time to look into some other peeps. Iamp's last scumgame was GSL 3, about 4 months ago. Since then he's played quite a bit of town. Do you really think this one easy sentence is enough to proclaim him town?
That "I'll do whatever the fuck I want" mentality is town-iamp in a nutshell. Also, his activity is vastly-improved from when I started off on him. So it's a combination of the attitude that sentence purveys and his increased activity.
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On February 25 2013 12:24 yamato77 wrote: No, it's just Hapa finding a reason to get off iamp once he figures out that the thread isn't following him.
Yes because Thrawn and Acro are totally not "the thread."
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@ Dieno
On February 25 2013 12:33 Dienosore wrote: @marv: I've already mentioned that I trust you. If you sincerely believe that he isn't scum, then I will reconsider my hard stance. However, I would be a fool to not remain extremely suspicious until something happens that definitively clears up the situation.
@Hapa: He didn't just make a post about me. He called me out for a duel with his first post based on my first post. To me, this screams scum.
How so? Wanting to duel your top scumread is not scummy at all.
@ Acro
On February 25 2013 12:35 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:25 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 12:22 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 12:18 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 12:14 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 12:13 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 12:11 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 12:03 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:56 marvellosity wrote:no idea how i fucked that one up On February 25 2013 11:52 Hapahauli wrote: [quote]
Oh come on Marv. I miss shit like that all the time as town and you know it. the fact remains that you basically haven't done anything this game except attack iamp, and you've done so under false pretenses. I have no real reason to think of you as town right now False pretenses? That's just one of the several reasons I'm suspicious of him right now. I think he's scummy due to his his nonsensical Thrawn read, as well has him name-dropping Dieno. On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. Also, this post in general is really scummy in context. Why on earth is he answering a question for Corazon? In fact his posts right after that suggests that he's suspicious of Cora at point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#221http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=12#222The thought-process makes no sense. He's suspicious of Cora, yet he's willing to answer questions for him? Nope. for someone that has played a ton of games with me it seems like you are puzzled by my actions. dont get it hapa and this is still the only thing you are doing is commenting on me. If this is what you plan on doing all cycle i think you have to be scum. your tunneling of me for no reason other than you dont like some of my reads. explain how any of my actions are scummy am i afraid of the spotlight? am i interested in lynching scum? you havent done any of that and wont comment on anything else despite saying you have more material. maybe your just bad at scum hapa I'll admit you're getting better with the "spotlight" and "activity" thing. Though answer what I posted above: why were you answering questions for Corazon? because i felt like it. Fuck it that a town iamp response if I've ever seen one. Time to look into some other peeps. Iamp's last scumgame was GSL 3, about 4 months ago. Since then he's played quite a bit of town. Do you really think this one easy sentence is enough to proclaim him town? That "I'll do whatever the fuck I want" mentality is town-iamp in a nutshell. Also, his activity is vastly-improved from when I started off on him. So it's a combination of the attitude that sentence purveys and his increased activity. But he's had that attitude all game. Thrawn thought he was scum for it, you think he's town for it. I have no clue, I'd say he's playing pretty similar to the start of CT, where he was town, but I thought he could be scum. He is aggressive and doesn't give a shit. However, the reasons I doubt him are still the same: he gives no reasons, isn't forceful about his reads and has this post: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 07:04 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 07:02 yamato77 wrote:On February 25 2013 06:59 marvellosity wrote: Why do you think town will? As far as I can see you're the one in the thread being retarded so far, so if it does it'll be because of people like you.
Like I said, the last thing town needs is someone like you playing the hero. The last thing town needs is a bunch of people yelling at each other to duel someone else. But whatever, do what you want. I'm only going to duel someone if things go bad, which I think they will. If they go your way, good, but I doubt it. Town is rarely that cooperative. meh you just haven't experienced many good towns im gonna guess mafia will be under pressure from this setup im gonna guess since time is on our side. And looking at the player list some of the better players will likely be town so we will be able to sweat the mafia i would say This post is pointless, but a suspicious mind might think why even bother bringing it up? How does Iamp know that good players are likely town, rather than scum? I don't say anything of it is very conclusive, but given that you and thrawn reach different conclusions based on the same meta, one of you must be wrong and getting some more info on why you think the meta makes him town is important.
As you said, CT is a good example. He just doesn't give much of a shit about his image when he's town. I'd take a look into his scum-game (GSL III), where he was very self-conscious, curt, and defensive.
As for Thrawn drawing the opposite conclusion, are you referring to this?
On February 25 2013 11:38 thrawn2112 wrote: Yeah I think iamp's scum. I can't feel the townie thought process behind his posts and his explanations are short and dismissive.
I don't think that's the same meta point. I'm describing more of an "I don't give a fuck" mentality. Being dismissive is different. I got a strong feel for the former in his more recent posting.
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In class, so I don't have time to catch-up for now. I'll be on later in the afternoon to post reads. I do want to address the ritual bad D1 case on me though.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#347
Yamato's case boils down to three points: 1) I'm "parroting" marv regarding policy talk. 2) My line of questioning with Cora 3) I haven't made commitments
1) "Parroting"
Firstly, Yamato just made a blanket statement about my play and made no attempt to justify it.
A lot of his early posting was devoted to arguing with me about the setup, which many people did, but the way he did it bothered me, and it is exemplified in this post. He parroted Marvellosity a lot and generally tried to follow him. Example:
It's impossible to address this since Yamato just said I was "parroting" without pointing to any examples of it. I definitely was involved in the policy-talk early on, but that's because of how important I found the policy-talk to be. Each individual player has a great deal of power this game (with the dueling mechanic), and it is important for people to understand the responsibilities that come along with it.
2) Cora Questioning
He begins a line of questioning with Cora, presumably with a negative attitude toward him. How does he follow up?
This is strictly wrong. At this point I had no strong feelings about Cora one way or the other. In fact my line of questioning was intended to be very patient with Cora to understand where he's coming from. I felt people were irrationally out for blood against an inexperienced guy. That much should be very clear from my line of questioning towards him.
3) I haven't made commitments // Not being "town leader"
Regarding the "town leader" thing, I really only take leadership positions in the town when I'm forced to do so. The last game Yamato and I have played (British Empire Mini, which I think he's drawing reference from), I was a vocal leader because: a) I was the most experienced player in the lineup b) I was basically confirmed town c) no one else in the game was posting at all.
If I feel things are going well discussion wise, I don't always take the reigns of the game. Chrono Trigger Mafia and Hero Mini Mafia (town in both games) are examples of this.
As for "not making commitments," I think it's pretty normal not to have any solid commitments hours into Day 0.
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Back for the night - finally catching up. Will respond to things and make reads at the end, and feel free to ask me anything.
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Attacks on me continue to be non-sensical. Going to address these then move on to some reads.
On February 26 2013 03:50 marvellosity wrote:Oh, and by the way (apologies for multi-post), basically the first and last things hapa said so far in this thread make me suspicious of him: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:05 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 04:10 yamato77 wrote: You're going to have a hard enough time choosing one player you want dead, much less two. This a problem? I've never had problems being super-paranoid early days. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 02:39 Hapahauli wrote:
As for "not making commitments," I think it's pretty normal not to have any solid commitments hours into Day 0. I'm not seeing any of this "super-paranoid" at all.
I don't get what's bad about this at all. I started playing the opening hours of the game yesterday, and I've been sleeping/in-school for the last 15 hours. Making snap judgements about my behavior based on the opening hours of the game is stupid and ignorant of the context of my play.
On February 26 2013 02:57 yamato77 wrote: The scummiest thing about Hapa is the complete lack of aggression in anything he's doing.
What he is doing is also scummy, because it's not hunting scum. I don't even know what it is. I have no idea what his reads are at all.
Same thing as above. You're calling me "super-scummy" for my actions in the opening hours, which is completely baseless.
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There are a quite a few players jumping on my wagon for flimsy reasons, and I'm pretty sure it is mafia-motivated do to how smoothly it's going. There are two in particular I find very scummy:
Thrawn
He hasn't shown the activity or engagement I'd expect from a town-Thrawn. He's normally very playful in the early game (making controversial one liners to attract attention to himself), and I haven't seen any of that so far.
Furthermore, he wants to lynch me for basically every reason except for finding me scummy. Case in point:
On February 26 2013 02:27 thrawn2112 wrote: what does anyone think about asking hapa to be one of the duelists
On February 26 2013 02:33 thrawn2112 wrote: i think it's a good idea. if he gets to decide who to duel at the end of the cycle
On February 26 2013 02:38 thrawn2112 wrote: as town he'd be a good player to pick the main lynch candidate. if he's not town then we can lynch him instead
This is scum-bandwagon 101. He picks me as a scumread, and throws fuel onto my bandwagon by offering irrelevant justifications to have me "dueled" tomorrow.
Snarfs
I initially read his first post as enthusiastic, but the rest of his (short) filter reads as fake-contributions.
On February 26 2013 04:38 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 03:29 Snarfs wrote:On February 25 2013 10:05 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 03:06 Snarfs wrote: Ahhh yesss!! Finally a game where I'm not mafia! It's been too long. Far too long.
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it.
Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels.
Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals. this guy is the scummiest guy in the game so far in my view says he is excited he is town then proceeds to do nothing discuss. Lol, it was Sunday, I was out. Gimme a break, I'm catching up now. Update: Up to page 20 now and I would kill Hapa solely based on his reasoning for backing off on iamp. Didn't make any sense (others have said it) because iamp didn't change at all. Also, I didn't like this line from thrawn: It seems like a really weird mindset. Scared to attack... should be more like "pressure" or why would you back off... not "scared to attack" - that seems to be attempting to incite Oats as opposed to get a read on him. full quote: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote:I don't like how quickly Oats backed down on his suspicions of marv. He goes from "kinda suspicious" to On February 25 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote: I would not say you were very mannered in LIX.
And suddenly marv turns on the SERIOUS MODE. Its not scummy, its just not alignment indicative as oh good plan = town. so Oats, why so scared to attack marv? Going through last few pages now.
He offers a neatly packaged reason for why he wants me dead. No debate, no nothing, he just supports killing me right away in one small sentence.
He then moves on to "attack" thrawn in the weakest manner ever. He doesn't call thrawn scummy. He just "doesn't like" one of his posts and calls it "weird," which is hilarious considering he's attacking thrawn for the very same thing.
Notably, he's never mentioned thrawn in any of his posts afterward, or has attempted to follow up on his questions to thrawn.
On February 26 2013 05:35 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 05:12 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 26 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote: 3. When I get home from school (in a few hours), I am going to re-read the pages with the whole go around between the TL veterans (basically everyone but the lurkers, me, Adam, Yamato, and Dieno). Maybe you haven't read the thread enough... Yea, I saw that. It just felt weird when hapa was a big focus that you didn't mention him at the time (other than to say you were going to look into it) so I made a note of it. Since marv and yamato seem pretty happy with you so far though, I'm not going to really push you on this one since it's not a big priority and would probably just derail things. As I said, just making a note of things.
In this post, he again takes this really passive questioning of another player. He seemingly has reasons to think Corazon is scummy, but drops it because "Marv and Yamato are happy."
My other scumread outside of the above is Dienosaur. He's been far less active than I remembered him being in Chrono Trigger Mafia. In addition:
1) His response to Adam's case feels very very forced:
nformation is power in this game, so I didn't really expect a detailed answer to my question. I went fishing and came up empty, big deal. I'll continue fishing until I get a bite.
As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now.
Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town.
Bring it on. When Adam calls him out, he's super-confrontational to the max, and wants to create this glorious showdown between him and Adam. However when Adam slightly backs down:
On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:48 Adam4167 wrote: You can still change my mind, I am not a tunnel machine. I pull out of shit tunnels all the time, as I did with GoodKarma in Chrono or SacredSystem in a newbie I subbed into with Zarepath months ago.
You are right, we have more than enough time to deliberate, I am making my intentions known now so we can discuss it at depth.
You want to change my mind? Go find scum. I'd like to think Ill know pretty quickly if what you're posting is genuine or piffle. Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly.Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though.
The bolded is what gets me. If he thinks Adam is scum (previous quote), why should he give a shit what Adam thinks? In addition, it's a huge emotional 180 from someone who wanted nothing but confrontation only 1 post ago.
2) His "Map"
I remember him drawing a Map in Chrono Trigger (as town), but this one feels different. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#343
He draws his map here, but doesn't offer any actual reads until Yamato prods him for it.
He then offers a bunch of completely noncommittal reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#345
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Oh waht the fuck goddamnit I thought hte deadline was at 7
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Well atleast I'm not alone.
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So my preferred duel right now is two of the Dieno/Snarfs/Thrawn.
A lot of people think Kei is scum, but I'm pretty firmly null on him. He played a hell of a scum-game in GSL I Mini, and I'm chalking his absence up to business rather than something sinister. The inactivity is unusual for his town OR scum games, and I can't draw any conclusions from it.
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On February 26 2013 08:28 Acrofales wrote: Keir had time to pop in and say "hai gaiz, I'm town", then bugger off for 15 hours, say he was reading the thread, and ask a pointless question. The only motivation I can see for this behaviour is to say "dudes, I'm in the game and doing stuff", which is behaviour I associate with scums.
I can associate that with being busy as well.
Anywho, I don't want to defend Kei - he can speak in his own defense whenever he gets back from whatever he's up to.
So reading your "goodbye" post, we're on opposite sides of the fence on Dienosaur. What do you think of my comments on him, particularly his attitude towards Adam?
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On February 26 2013 08:46 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 08:34 Hapahauli wrote:On February 26 2013 08:28 Acrofales wrote: Keir had time to pop in and say "hai gaiz, I'm town", then bugger off for 15 hours, say he was reading the thread, and ask a pointless question. The only motivation I can see for this behaviour is to say "dudes, I'm in the game and doing stuff", which is behaviour I associate with scums. I can associate that with being busy as well. Anywho, I don't want to defend Kei - he can speak in his own defense whenever he gets back from whatever he's up to. So reading your "goodbye" post, we're on opposite sides of the fence on Dienosaur. What do you think of my comments on him, particularly his attitude towards Adam? You haven't bothered to explain yourself. Honestly, I feel Dieno is way too easy a mislynch. Could he be scum for his rather erratic play? Sure, but I think he is playing to his town meta. I also think he is lynchbait and that makes me even more hesitant about lynching him. I think the map seems similar to his maps in other games and am willing to give him some time to develop it. If he never steps up his play, then I will be harder on him. Given what I think of thrawn, sylencia, keir and yourself, a Dieno lynch would be really dumb today.
I very much disagree that he's playing to his town play. He's far more lurky than I've seen him as town.
Also, explain myself how?
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On February 26 2013 08:52 Acrofales wrote: Why did you defend Snarfs?
I originally thought his first post was enthusiastic, and I thought iamp was gunning for lynch-bait by attacking it.
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On February 26 2013 10:35 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 10:22 Acrofales wrote:On February 26 2013 09:50 iamperfection wrote: i would like to
do zare vs snarf or zare vs kier
i would like to give hapa some more time.
Is there anyone that is with me? Tell me again why Thrawn is town. His calling you out is not enough given the rest of his play. I have played town with him once and he played well. I read 2 other of his town games and they were also fine. This is not his townplay. i just dont think he is stupid. call it gut or whatever but his last scum games he did not post at all like we are talking 4 or 5 posts.is it possible he is scum yeah but i think there are better candidates and my gut says he is town.
In his last scum-game, he didn't post much, but he said that was due more to activity than anything else. Have you considered Mafia LVIII? Howabout Mario Mini Mafia? He posted a decent amount in both those games (though he replaced out of Mario).
As for this game, his play is very drastically different from anything I've seen from town Thrawn. He's missing a lot of his characteristic humor, he's considerably more clammed up, and he's failing to justify any of his reads.
Unless Thrawn shits rainbows into the thread in the next 20 hours, he's definitely someone I want to see "dueled" this cycle.
Regarding Zapa // Dueler #2
I just don't see the scum that you do in him. He's reasonably active, and I don't think that "list-post" that you quoted as scummy is all that scummy. It just seems like a read-dump of his thought process. Non-allignment indicative.
Zapa's been trying to question people and go after reads. That's a lot more than some other players here. Snarf would be my #2, since he's literally done nothing up until this point. He offered a 1-sentence rationale about how he wanted me dead, then made two of the most non-committal reads ever on Thrawn and Kei.
On February 26 2013 04:38 Snarfs wrote:... Also, I didn't like this line from thrawn:It seems like a really weird mindset. Scared to attack... should be more like "pressure" or why would you back off... not "scared to attack" - that seems to be attempting to incite Oats as opposed to get a read on him. full quote: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote:I don't like how quickly Oats backed down on his suspicions of marv. He goes from "kinda suspicious" to On February 25 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote: I would not say you were very mannered in LIX.
And suddenly marv turns on the SERIOUS MODE. Its not scummy, its just not alignment indicative as oh good plan = town. so Oats, why so scared to attack marv? Going through last few pages now.
On February 26 2013 07:40 Snarfs wrote:As of now, I'd support a Keirathi/Hapa duel. I need to read more from thrawn as it's still just a weird feeling about him, nothing concrete. I haven't read yamato's case on him yet, it was a bit too long and I didn't have time.I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv: Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Holy thread explosion, Batman.
Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 02:43 marvellosity wrote:On February 26 2013 02:38 thrawn2112 wrote: as town he'd be a good player to pick the main lynch candidate. if he's not town then we can lynch him instead thrawn, this is all weak as shit. iamp was your scumread and then you were possibly suspicious of Acro, and now you randomly want to have Hapa call a duel? Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other?
On February 26 2013 08:20 Snarfs wrote: ... Keirathi's filter is shorter and easier to pick things out of. He made it clear he was going to look at the thread and perform analysis, but then didn't when noone pushed him for it. I guess, like marv said though, he could just be away... just the fact that he took time to create that one kinda terrible post though... I dunno, I don't like it. ...
He's not finding things scummy or questioning people. He's just making observations on things "he doesn't like".
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On February 26 2013 11:01 Keirathi wrote:No solid reads yet. I'm interested in thrawn, obviously. The town thrawn I know is logical and takes his time to look at all sides of the situation, and I just haven't seen that from him this game. He's just been flying by the seat of his pants (iamp scum, no town, no scum again! Hapa should be a dueler tomorrow!) with little to no reasoning for his "reads".
Do you have reads on anyone other than Thrawn? Town, scum... anything more would help.
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Mornin' all. Have a busy day in school today, but I'll be checking in-and-out of the thread today. Will have some free time tonight thankfully.
Woah did not expect that. First things first:
1) I'd prefer not to double-lynch. Forcing people to take sides is in our best interest information-wise. Deciding on a double-lynch right now is a cop-out.
2) Adam's duel doesn't look that bad to me. Consider his opening post:
On February 25 2013 10:06 Adam4167 wrote: This started 30 minutes after i went to bed, bleh =(
I agree with Yamato, If i see scum, i'll make my case and duel them.
Forcing two other people to duel at your behest is weak - man up, take responsibility for your reads.
Dieno, your opening post was quite bad. You seem to be trying to make friends with and please everyone, while saying absolutely nothing of value. Step it up or get dueled tomorrow.
He thought Kei was scum, and dueled him. I think his decision was stupid, but it's consistent with how he approached the game.
If I had to pick one, I'd lynch Kei right now. Kei hasn't done anything to prove to me that he's town. He's lurked a lot, and his case on Adam wasn't very strong. Adam has approached this game with a lot more bravado than I'd expect from his scum persona.
##Vote Keirathi
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On February 27 2013 00:47 Acrofales wrote: @Iamp, Hapa, Alderan: explain to me why Adam's situation is different from Meapak's shot in Bang Bang Mafia 2.
I have no idea wtf happened in that game and I'm in school for the next few hours. Can you give me the rundown? I'll take a look at it myself tonight.
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Oh hm well I just read that Bang Bang Mafia thing (Lot shorter than I expected o-O). I understand the similarities (rushing a day, wanting to kill discussion, etc), but I don't think it's a relevant comparison due to the difference in game-mechanics. Also, Adam =/= Meapak.
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On February 27 2013 01:29 zarepath wrote: Why would scum suddenly throw caution to the wind to duel someone they have an unexplained read on? That's what I can't figure out.
^ This sums up what I'm thinking. What does "scum-Adam" have to gain in this situation? It is a really fucking stupid play for a townie, but it's also even WORSE from a scum perspective.
The one argument I can think of is that "scum-Adam" wanted to make it look like he was being "brave" and taking a risk by dueling someone he had a high chance of winning against. However even this doesn't make very much sense. For one, putting yourself on the block so suddenly is still a risky proposition. Secondly, this doesn't look calculated or planned at all - it reads a lot like a "FUCK IT, LET'S DO IT" duel given how suddenly and unexpectedly Adam decided to pull the tigger.
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On February 27 2013 02:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Hapa, is keir playing to his town meta or scum meta?
To neither. Kei is much more active than this as both alignments.
Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum.
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^ I like that plan.
Unless Adam or Kei have really damning evidence that the other is scum, it really doesn't matter what they think of one another at this point. No matter their alignment, anything they give is going to be completely un-objective since they're fighting for their own survival.
Having two people fling shit at each other isn't going to be productive. I'd rather see their other scum-hunting efforts.
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Oh damnit sniped by Oats.
On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote: Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning?
I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in.
And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town.
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On February 27 2013 02:44 Oatsmaster wrote:Hapa, why are you playing so differently this game? Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 10:19 Hapahauli wrote:On January 26 2013 10:12 xsksc wrote: Oh hai Hapa, we haven't met. Wanna play Prom's game for me? Tell me about yourself. What are your strengths and what are your weaknesses? I've been playing TL Mafia for... 6 months I think? I coach newbie towns a lot, and I love me some mini-mafia games. Well I'm far from objective about my own strengths and weaknesses. In terms of a self-assessment though, I like to have a high thread-presence and get in the thick of things. Basically I'm town, I'm spammy, and I'll likely build 20 page filter by the time I get shot. In Normal Mini, you played for 24 hours and had a 3 page filter, here you almost played for 48, GUESS WHAT? Also a 3 page filter. Where is the high thread-presence and spammyness you are talking about? Also you seem to be posting a lot more freely in Normal mini than in this game.
Normal Mini IV started on a weekend, and I have MUCH more time on the weekends. I'm in school from 8pm-5pm on weekdays, and as a result I simply can't be as active. I've been just about as active as I could be given my schedule.
Also Oats, you're fishing for my opinions and reads, but I've heard nothing what you think about them. Do you disagree with my thoughts on Kei and Adam? If so, why?
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On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote: Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing?
But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality.
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Anyway, I need to stop defending Adam and let him speak for himself. That being said, this situation screams like a stupid emotional decision rather than a sinister mafia plan.
Interested to see Kei's reads. Have only seen his views on Thrawn and Adam so far.
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On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote: Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb.
Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel.
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On February 27 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:50 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote: Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb. Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel. So if Keir isn't intentionally lurking what do you find suspicious about his behaviour?
Firstly, a major reason I'm voting Kei is because I'm pretty sure Adam is town.
As for Kei himself, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town at all. That and I didn't like his early interactions with Adam. His initial case made no sense to me, and Kei's constantly qualifying that he's not committing to his suspicions:
Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it.
I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up.
AFAIK, i never said "Okay guys, Adam 100% scum lets lynch him". I saw something, and mentioned it to the thread to get some feedback.
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And since you're around Kei, respond to the above when you can.
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On February 27 2013 04:10 Acrofales wrote: Let me get this straight, Hapa: you think it's entirely possible Keir is town, but think killing him is the lesser of two evils? If you were a pardoner, would you consider stopping this lynch?
Yes and yes. None of my top scumreads are on the block right now.
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On February 27 2013 04:11 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:01 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:50 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 03:47 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 03:43 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 02:51 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:Oh damnit sniped by Oats. On February 27 2013 02:37 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 27 2013 02:18 Hapahauli wrote: Thing is, Kei has done nothing to show me that he's town, and having played a couple of games with Adam, I find it really doubtful that he'd pull something like this as scum. Wait what? How many games have you played with Kei? You are calling Keirathi scummy for not playing to his town meta or his scum meta, but Adam is not scum because he isnt playing to his scum meta, or his town meta as Acro showed. How did you get this reasoning? I've played a couple of games with Kei, and heavily obs'd some more games that he was in. And you're completely twisting my argument. Yes Kei is playing differently than I've seen him play as both alignments in the past. However, I'm voting Kei right now because Adam's actions make very little sense from a scum-Adam perspective (given meta, demeanor, bravery, etc), and Kei has given me no reason to think he's town. If you take Adam's meta, demeanor and bravery into account, how can you ignore his town meta? He has never done anything remotely like pulling a stunt like this. Not in CT, not in WLIIA and not in LIX. The other games I recall from him are Hero where he was scum and a couple of games where he was modkilled for inactivity. Please explain how meticulous Adam, who writes cautious cases deliberating different angles, suddenly throws caution to the wind and says "FUCK YOU, I'M PALMAR BITCHES". What part of Adam's town meta am I missing? But that's the thing - have you ever seen ANYTHING like this from scum Adam? No. It's at odds with his town mentality yes. However, it's even MORE at odds with his scum mentality. Why is Keir being a lurker, something Keir clearly knows is a stupid scumtell, still a scumtell? It is clearly at odds with both of his metas and you seem to think scum is more careful to not stand out like a sore thumb. Thing is, I don't think Kei is intentionally lurking or anything. A lot of his posts have suggested he's busy with work/whatever. His lurking doesn't seem intentional, thus the situation is very different from Adam's intentional DERP duel. So if Keir isn't intentionally lurking what do you find suspicious about his behaviour? Firstly, a major reason I'm voting Kei is because I'm pretty sure Adam is town. As for Kei himself, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town at all. That and I didn't like his early interactions with Adam. His initial case made no sense to me, and Kei's constantly qualifying that he's not committing to his suspicions: Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it. I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up. AFAIK, i never said "Okay guys, Adam 100% scum lets lynch him". I saw something, and mentioned it to the thread to get some feedback. Maybe my original post wasn't full fleshed out, but it made sense as I talked it out more, no? How does that make me scum? My point didn't change, I just explained it better. And so what, I was being non-committal towards the read. I demonstrably do that as town on day 1. What makes me scum this time, but not the others?
Thing is Kei, you've done barely anything this game. Does the above make you 100% scum? No, but it's a point against you.
At this point, I just need to see some activity/scum-hunting from you. If you're town, you have to prove it.
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Gah school has been busier than expected. I'll have a lot of free time starting tomorrow though, so I'll have much more time to devote to the game.
First things first, I'm very comfortable with my vote on Kei right now. He keeps promising he'll return, and never returns. It doesn't look like he cares much about the town, and hanging him is the best option.
Secondly, don't fucking double-lynch.
Acro is pushing the idea that Adam is a 3rd party, and I have NO CLUE how that makes sense. Firstly, we don't even know if there's a 3rd party in this game. Secondly, 3rd party mechanics put a heavy emphasis on survival (Serial Killer, Survivor, etc), and Adam's actions do not show a survival instinct at all.
Unless Adam's win-con literally is "If you win a duel, you win the game" - his actions only make sense from a town perspective. I've already stated why several times (too attention-whorey, looks like an emotional response, etc), and I'm not willing to put all my eggs in the 3rd party basket.
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On February 28 2013 02:17 thrawn2112 wrote: why should lynch adam
1)-we're in a closed 15 player setup. it's a little expected that there might be a third party. i've personally seen people lynch 3p reads and they flip 3p
2-you can't be too certain that keir is scum. if keir flips town, the thread will probably waste time on adam until he eventually gets lynched at some point later on
3-this is an excellent example of a time when you actually need to policy lynch just to keep games playable. imagine if this happens again? every day? you've been bitching about how shitty the lynch is, so here is you chance to put a stop to it
1) "We should lynch Adam because maybe there's a 3rd party and 3rd parties have been lynched in the past." - Not only is this irrelevant, but this makes ZERO sense. And again, a key theme of 3rd parties is a pronounced survival instinct. Where on earth is Adam's survival instinct!??!
The argument for Adam being a 3rd party is that he's more emotional and more cocky than usual. Lynching him for traits that make him seem more-towny is stupid.
2) "We should lynch Adam because Kei MIGHT not flip scum." - This is playing scared, and not playing rational. And I'm sure as hell opposed to lynching a player that's exhibiting townie traits and actions just because of doubt on another player.
3) I don't justify lynching my town reads on policy. I understand the need for deterrence, but this whole fiasco with Adam almost getting lynched should be deterrence in itself for him not to do stupid things again.
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@ Acro
On February 28 2013 02:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote:On February 28 2013 01:44 Acrofales wrote:Oh, dafuq. What is it with you people and your lack of reading comprehensionAdam is an evil 3P who cares jack shit about the wellbeing of this town Keirathi is evil scum who needs to die Both must die. I will duel the next person who asks for my reads on adam and keir, because I hereby declare a policy lynch on people not reading the thread. Acro, if adam is an evil 3P who doesnt care about town, why did he duel scum and not scummy looking town? Its not like he didnt have plenty of options Scumslip? How do you know Keir is scum and not scummy looking town? Anyway, here are some reasons to want to aim at scum: 1. 3P doesn't know who is town and who is scum. Lynching someone who looks like scum covers them either way. The duel has to be believable not completely backfire and get the dueler lynched. 2. 3P survivor types just want the game to end asap (best chance of surviving). Extra wincons may require them to delay the end of the game, but lets not speculate too much about that, and just assume). There are two ways ending the game asap: landslide scum victory and landslide town victory. Most survivors are like observers: rooting for town until town derps so much that they are unsympathetic. So why NOT duel your scumread? 3. SURVIVOR. SURVIVOR. SURVIVOR. He cannot afford to be lynched himself (nor shot at night, but in this case lynch is clearly the biggest threat). Guess what gets Adam lynched? Prematurely dueling the crap out of a townie.
You mentioned earlier that Adam's persona doesn't make sense for his mafia and town metas. While I understand he's acting differently, how the hell does his actions make sense for a survivor? I'd expect a great deal more timidity from him. In addition, the risk/reward of his duel makes no sense if his goal is survival-oriented.
Like does this sound like something a survivor would post?
On February 26 2013 21:15 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 19:23 Acrofales wrote:
Adam: if you're town, you're a selfish douche who is not playing in town's best interest. I will reevaluate you, but I really feel like policy lynching you for playing like this. I will now fight my instincts, because I don't think policy lyncing idiots is a good idea, but that's the way I feel right now. Well, I am town and you can call me whatever names you please, I give not a shit. I cant even promise that this wont happen again if I survive this cycle....
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I'll be back in an hour. Till then, someone needs to explain to me why we're so sure that Adam is a 3rd party that we're willing to lynch him solely on that basis. 'Cause I don't get it at all.
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Arg got swamped with more schoolwork today. Fortunately I'm done with class for the week tomorrow afternoon, so I'll be much more available after then.
Reads
So to state the obvious, Adam is very unlikely mafia. It would make virtually no sense for Adam, a scumplayer known for his passivity, to jump in and risk himself in a duel to bus his scumbuddy. Knowing the allignments of both players on the block yesterday, we should be able to narrow down some of our suspicions based on how votes paned out.
(Even if some people think Adam is a 3rd party, it's effectively the same thing from a mafia perspective.)
People Who Voted Adam (Sylencia +Dienosaur)
They've played almost identically so far: they've done a whole lot of nothing in the early game, then plopped an early vote on Adam at the beginning of the voting cycle, then proceeded to do much of nothing until now.
They're both lurkers who haven't made any significant commitments and had their vote in awful places. I want both of them to duel tomorrow, and I'd push for a double-lynch unless I get convinced that one of them is town.
The "Double-Lynch" Voters (iamperfection + Acro + Thrawn)
iamperfection is active and behaving to his townie persona (as I previously mentioned). Acro is the most active player in the game so far and hasn't been afraid to take the town leadership position. Slightly offputting from his filter is his 3rd party read on Adam (which I think is nonsense), however that's certainly not a reason to lynch him at this stage.
Something about Thrawn is off, and I think he's a likely 3rd party. While he was one of the earlier votes on Kei, when push came to shove, he voted for the double-lynch. While that isn't bad in itself, what's most concerning is how and why he did so.
First of all, the timing at which he switched to a double-lynch is remarkably convenient. The votecount was 4-2 in favor of Adam, and zaperath + Snarfs JUST voted for Kei, swinging the momentum of the lynch. At this point, Thrawn immediately latches onto the idea of double-lynching very strongly. It reads a lot like he's seizing the opportunity to do collateral damage, when you consider some of the rationale for his switch.
On February 28 2013 02:02 thrawn2112 wrote: if we kill adam too, nobody will dare to shoot early from now on
his desire to duel seems to have some sort of win-con type motivation. it's not like he and keir were really going at each other at the time. keir was not pushing adam veyy hard. adam volunteered to duel keir in my place... way before enough people had commented on the original idea of thrawn vs keir
if you look at the circumstances, the motivation for a townie to do what he did doesn't seem to be there.
On February 28 2013 02:17 thrawn2112 wrote: why should lynch adam
-we're in a closed 15 player setup. it's a little expected that there might be a third party. i've personally seen people lynch 3p reads and they flip 3p
-you can't be too certain that keir is scum. if keir flips town, the thread will probably waste time on adam until he eventually gets lynched at some point later on
-this is an excellent example of a time when you actually need to policy lynch just to keep games playable. imagine if this happens again? every day? you've been bitching about how shitty the lynch is, so here is you chance to put a stop to it
He suddenly becomes very very convinced that Adam is a 3rd party in the first quote. This is just a feel for him from our history together, but I just can't see town-Thrawn having such high confidence in a 3rd party read. I haven't seen anything of the sort in the past games I've played with him.
The second quote is also very notable for two reasons: 1) he starts setup-speculating and just sounds a lot less confident that Adam is 3rd party. 2) He's justifying lynching Adam because he "can't be too certain" that Kei is scum. Yet he had been pushing the idea aggressively .
Combined with his inactive start, there's something just... off about Thrawn. I think Thrawn is a possible mafia that bussed Kei, but is more likely a 3rd party.
People who only voted Kei (Snarfs + zarepath + Alderan)
For Snarfs + Zarapeth, of these guys voted only voted Kei, and did so at a time that seemed to swing the momentum onto Kei's bandwagon. Both of their filters are pretty "meh," but I can't find anything overtly scummy there, and their voting actions (and timing) suggest a townie motivation.
For Alderan, there's nothing really conclusive in his filter since he was pretty clear that he thought both people on the block were town. His attitude is consistent, and I sympathise with it having initially been in the same situation to some extent. Also, I got some town vibes from his huge fight with Acro about not wanting to double-lynch. I'd expect mafia to not be as adamant against the idea.
Point is, none of them should be a priority for tomorrow.
People who SWITCHED from Adam to Kei (Yamato + Oatsmaster + Corazon)
Here's where it gets interesting.
Yamato... I had initially labeled him as very town due to his early-game aggression, but his activity died off in recent days. In addition, he's more than capable of being an aggressive dick as mafia (from my experience in British Mini Mafia). He starts off the day all aboard the Adam train while defending Kei: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=35#685
He maintains that Kei is town throughout the day. With Adam, he reverses course later in the day. The thing is that the reasoning with which he switches off Adam is so paltry in comparison to why he thought Adam was scum (see link above). These are the standouts:
Based on the complete uselessness of both parties involved in this lynch, Adam and Keirathi, I think the likelihood of them both being town is high. Mafia in this position would be more concerned with the possibility of being lynched here, and do something about it. Neither of these players seems to be trying particularly hard to live, so by default they're probably just town.
Adam's play is mafia-favored, and his likelihood of doing this again is high, so if we're strictly talking about lynching people who are playing anti-town, he is the obvious favorite. ... Adam's play since calling for the duel is quite terrible. All he's done is excuse and defend his decision, he really hasn't added to town's efforts in any meaningful way. While I do think his defensiveness is a little weird, the overall tone of his posts and his mentality seems townish. He's not overly concerned with being lynched for this, so it's a decent sign he might not be mafia.
So in Yamato's world, Adam is playing to mafia objectives, but he all of a sudden drops suspicion because Adam's posts now seem "townish." Compare this again to his initial "outline" of suspicion on Adam: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=35#685
Within an hour of dropping his suspicions on Adam, he's immediately onto Kei:
On February 28 2013 05:00 yamato77 wrote: ##Vote Keirathi
Someone with balls make sure this doesn't end in a double lynch. I have to go to work.
Yamato's actions come across as very convenient, however I can see a town Yamato doing what he did. The town Yamato I've seen in his newbie games and Mafia LVIII is very spazzy and aggressive, and is capable of his sudden turn in attitudes about Adam. I'll be interested in what he has to say tomorrow.
Oatsmaster seems townie due to his activity and his thought-process during the duel proceedings. He seems to care a lot about scumhunting... and well... just thinks a lot like a townie. Hard to put my finger on it, but it seems very genuine. That, and him being suspicious of marv in the early game against pretty much everyone else doesn't seem like a scum move to me.
Corazon Pretty simple. Starts the day off on Adam: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=38#747
Then spends a lot of time going after Syl. What's notable, is that Corazon really never bothers to analyze Kei's filter. His attitude on Kei is one of neutrality and hesitation:
I'm not convinced enough on Kei to see him die now. I was only ok with him dueling if it was because Thrawn picked him. I see a lot more scum motivation behind Adam's rashness. The fact that the votes already given out so far are all around the board mean that the chances of a scum being here is pretty high. I hate heroes anyways.
Eventually when opinions of the town start to shift, Corazon arrives at the idea that both Adam and Kei are town... due to Sylencia's vote on Adam?!?!?!? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=48#956
He argues that Sylencia being non-committal makes both of them not scum, which makes zero sense. It's not scumhunting, it's a complete cop-out from doing any analysis
Then shortly after, there's his vote post:
On February 28 2013 05:16 cDgCorazon wrote: Oh I read Yamato's post as 2 people...
Fuck it, I'm tired of sitting here and posturing for the next day. If Kei flips town I just know my agenda is going to be set back for a really long time...but I refuse to see a double lynch.
##unvote ##Vote: Kei
Why would a townie care about "posturing" for tomorrow? A townie wants to hunt and kill scum. I don't think he's talking about "posturing" of other townies either, since he mentions an agenda. This also makes no sense - why would Kei flipping town set back his agenda of lynching Syl? In fact Kei flipping town would seemingly confirm his theory that Syl's indecision = both Adam/Kei are town.
So Corazon's actions line up with mafia objectives, and his switch onto Kei is very suspect. He never gives a strong opinion on Kei, and his vote-post is nonsensical.
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geezus fuck that took forever
I'll be awake for the next half-hour or so if anyone wants to poke me to explain anything above ^
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@iamp
On February 28 2013 11:57 iamperfection wrote:... Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 02:52 Hapahauli wrote: I'll be back in an hour. Till then, someone needs to explain to me why we're so sure that Adam is a 3rd party that we're willing to lynch him solely on that basis. 'Cause I don't get it at all. He said he would be back in an hour and then he didn't
I'd love to spend all my time on this game, but School > Mafia
As I've said before though, I'm home free for several days starting tomorrow afternoon, provided I don't get shot.
You know what this means well do you? It means he does not care about town. hapa can die.
Just because I have a gap of inactivity doesn't mean I don't care. This is the same shit that I got mislynched for in Hero, and almost got lynched for in Chrono Trigger.
He can be a leader and he isnt he could name the whole scum team as town by now he isnt
I hope this is sarcastic...
Anyway, you're completely wrong, but I see where you're coming from given our most recent game together
Just take a look at my actions yesterday and think about whether they make sense from a mafia perspective or not.
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On February 28 2013 15:45 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa, who do you want to be in a duel and how do you propose to do it? and who would you duel yourself?
My full proposition for tomorrow is this: I'd like Dieno and Sylencia to duel, unless one of them starts showing some significant townieness. I'd also like to double-lynch 'em by default and leave it up to them to prove that they're town individually. If one of them does, I'd add Corazon to the list.
As for HOW we should go about that, well you can only start by asking nicely. If that doesn't work, we can probably force one of them to duel the other by threatening to have Adam duel one of them (which is basically a vigi-shot given that there's no sane way that Adam's scum).
As for who I'd duel myself, I wouldn't duel period. I think my voting actions speak for themselves yesterday. I get that I'm less active than usual, but it should be obvious that I'm playing to town objectives. Nor do I get the sense that there's any support for me dueling tomorrow (besides iamp anyway).
If you're asking for a top scumread - it's hard to differentiate between Dieno/Sylencia since they've both played nearly identical games. Put a gun to my head, and I'd say Dieno on the basis that Sylencia has a history of being lurky as town in some of his newbie games, whereas Dieno's town performance in CT was pretty darn active.
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Freeeeeedommmmmm!
Catchin' up
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On February 28 2013 20:23 Acrofales wrote: @Hapa: I agree with some of your reads and disagree with others, when I finish filtering I will decide what that entails. However, for the moment, what is Thrawn the 3P's wincon? You can't just posit that he's a 3P because he wanted multiple people dead, out of the blue. Why does that fit with a survivor wincon? Where is the KP from an SK? You have to explain how that works, because I just don't see it.
You state that me suggesting there's a 3P in Adam is bad play or scummy: what does offputting mean in that sentence?
Yet 5 lines down you are doing it yourself for thrawn. Explain.
He seems like a survivor. His recent days have been fairly active, but there's not much analysis in there. It feels like he's playing not to get shot. It's similar to your read on Adam, in that his play this game doesn't match very well with his town or scum metas. He's lacking some of the humor and fearlessness I associate with his town-play, but he's more active than I'm used to seeing out of his scum play.
I mentioned "offputting" because I REALLY disagree with your analysis on Adam. It's something that nags in the back of my mind every time I read your filter. That's basically it.
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@ Syl
Idealistic, but you would think that the 4th scum (if any) would at least have the brains to stop this from happening if this was true. Even I would've seen from a mile away that leaving my vote on Adam would've been a dumb move if I was going to sleep with chances to hammer at any time (mainly saying this about the second half of the day, I would probably still vote at the time I did) leaving my vote exposed as scum. Deino who seems to have been in a similar situation following suit would mean that both of us being scum were very confident that town would vote for double lynch / Adam. Adam getting killed was still far off, and with the votes being 3-4 or something before the real movement happened, it's not like scum could convincingly say that it was in the bag at all.
So if I was scum, it would've been very very easy for me to simply withdraw my vote under the "Oh keir has done nothing for this half of the day, I'll re-evaluate." context. But I didn't. I stood my ground, and gave more reasoning. tl;dr You are at least half wrong about this, so assuming there are 4 scum, you're still missing one.
"My vote was too scummy for me to be scum" isn't a very good defense. What's very suspicious about your vote (and Dieno's) is how early you were on Adam, and how "clean" your play has been so far. You haven't done anything to stick your neck out - you just stick to one straight story and "blend in" while pursuing mafia objectives (lynching Adam).
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@ Cora
@Hapa: Why would I switch off a vote that was most likely going to be deadlocked and letting a non-scum and a scum die to just have my supposed "scum-buddy" die? That doesn't make any sense.
It makes perfect sense. Momentum was swinging very rapidly against Kei towards the end of the day. When you made the hammer vote, Thrawn was openly thinking about hammering Kei himself.
I wasn't focusing on Thrawn and Kei D1, I was more focused on Oats and Syl when it came to my scumhunting. The latter half of the duel consisted of us talking about people other than the duelists. I just decided to end it and instead of scumhunting with a hint towards the future, we speed things up and force the other scum to come out of their holes instead of sitting there and having a vote deadlock.
In all honesty my switch from Adam is going to look scummy either way. If I had stayed on Adam I would've looked scummy for refusing to switch to a scum. I decided to switch and we lynched a scum. Let's have a party.
Firstly you mean Adam and Kei (not Thrawn and Kei), correct?
Anyway, I think you missed a lot of my suspicions against you. Here's the rundown: 1) You had a town-read (and was soft defending) Kei for very suspect rationale. Syl's "indecision" on the lynch makes no sense for you to give a town-read on Kei. Furthermore, since Syl voted Adam, I would have expected you to support a Kei lynch much more. 2) You never try to analyze the filter of Kei. You have no shortage of words and rationale for Adam earlier in the day, but when it comes to Kei, I never got a hint that you even looked at his filter from your posts.
On another note, if I had said "I'm switching cause I felt like it", would you have a town read on me?
Speculating about what you didn't do is pretty pointless.
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On March 01 2013 07:36 yamato77 wrote: Hapa, when you have time, I absolutely need your input on my case on Acro.
Like, you can't post any more reads without reading that.
Going page-by-page. I'll get to it when I get to it.
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@ Yamato
You bring up two main points about why Acro could be scum: 1) His double-lynch idea despite thinking Kei was super-scummy 2) His obsession with Adam being a 3rd party
While I hate the logic behind Acro's stances, I don't see anything sinister in it. If he was really convinced that Adam was a hostile 3rd party, then it would make sense for Acro to want to see both duelers dead. I think Acro is being too much of an asset to the town right now to even consider dueling. He's active, vocal, and has been town-leader for the last few days.
That being said, all this stuff on Acro makes me REALLY want to see Syl and Dieno flip. Acro's been very vocal about both those players, and particularly notable is his sudden change of heart on Dieno (from lynch-bait to sure-mafia).
If syl flips scum, this will vindicate Acro considerably. I'll be really concerned about Acro if both flip town or if we get a Syl-town/Dieno-scum flip.
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hapa, idk what thread you are reading where my play suggests i'm a survivor, or that I haven't been fearless, or that i could have possibly bussed keir. what is your point with all that? Are you wanting to lynch me?
No I don't want to lynch you for now. There are three people I want to see dead before I even consider lynching you (Dino, Syl, Cora).
As for why I think you're a third party, you are more passive than I'm used to seeing out of you. You're also more aggressive than I'm used to seeing out of your scum-games. You fall somewhere in the middle, and the simplest explanation is that you're a Third Party.
In the last few town-games I've seen out of you, you started off with stupid random comments/votes designed to spurr discussion, and you were super-active in the early-game as well. You started off the opposite this game. In addition, I'm used to seeing more scum-hunting contributions from you. Your only major contribution is your recent case on Dieno... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=75#1489
which is a complete rehash of my own case on him on Day 1. Not to mention that it's an overkill case that serves no purpose, since virtually everyone here wants to see Dieno hang.
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On March 01 2013 08:49 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 07:34 Hapahauli wrote:@ SylIdealistic, but you would think that the 4th scum (if any) would at least have the brains to stop this from happening if this was true. Even I would've seen from a mile away that leaving my vote on Adam would've been a dumb move if I was going to sleep with chances to hammer at any time (mainly saying this about the second half of the day, I would probably still vote at the time I did) leaving my vote exposed as scum. Deino who seems to have been in a similar situation following suit would mean that both of us being scum were very confident that town would vote for double lynch / Adam. Adam getting killed was still far off, and with the votes being 3-4 or something before the real movement happened, it's not like scum could convincingly say that it was in the bag at all.
So if I was scum, it would've been very very easy for me to simply withdraw my vote under the "Oh keir has done nothing for this half of the day, I'll re-evaluate." context. But I didn't. I stood my ground, and gave more reasoning. tl;dr You are at least half wrong about this, so assuming there are 4 scum, you're still missing one. "My vote was too scummy for me to be scum" isn't a very good defense. What's very suspicious about your vote (and Dieno's) is how early you were on Adam, and how "clean" your play has been so far. You haven't done anything to stick your neck out - you just stick to one straight story and "blend in" while pursuing mafia objectives (lynching Adam). Sure isn't a good defense, but do explain how you can say with that I'm pursuing mafia objectives by trying to lynch someone we don't know the alignment of because they haven't flipped? I haven't made excuses for voting Adam, trying to make myself look any better because of a scum flip, because that would just be me lying to you all. I haven't had any regrets having my vote on Adam because he seemed like the worse player at the time, even though that's shown to be wrong.
Yeah sure townies can certainly have their vote in the wrong place in the wrong time. For example Oats did something similar voting-wise to you, and I think he's town.
The issue with you is that your vote was in the wrong place, you're extremely lurky, and you haven't been sticking your neck out at all.
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Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected.
Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town.
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/off topic
Tasteful soundtrack, nice choice *thumbs up*
/off topic
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On March 01 2013 10:14 thrawn2112 wrote: actually fuck it, i think worrying about if we want to double lynch this early on is completely counter productive.
##Vote: Dienosaur
Why is it counter-productive? I think it encourages the two people we need to talk the most (Syl and Dieno) to talk more.
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?
What changed your mind thrawn?
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Also DIeno, I need some of your other reads. What's your current view on Oats?
You had this earlier quote on Oats...
On February 27 2013 16:05 Dienosore wrote:Wait, hold on... Did I read this right? Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 15:38 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont think that Keirathi is gonna flip scum, but on the slight chance that he is trying not to draw flack for his play, I am in favour of lynching him. Quoting this for preservation purposes.
...which sounds like you really thought he was scum. In that regard, I'm surprised you jumped on Sylencia so quickly.
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Yeah, that's why I like my plan =)
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On March 01 2013 14:27 thrawn2112 wrote: i hate it tbh. but there seems to be no other sensible option.
that being said i'd like to know who you would vote for if you had to pick one.
Dieno. Pretty sure I mentioned that before.
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Hm Adam, that's an interesting take on Syl. Gonna sleep on that one.
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Thrawn, I call bullshit on your Syl read.
You were convinced yesterday that both Syl and Dieno were scum. Also, you were NOT convinced by Adam's argument that only one of Syl/Dieno could be scum.
With this in mind, it makes ZERO sense for you to have hammered Dieno in the manner that you did. If two of your scumreads were legitimately up on the chopping block, you should have been GUNNING for a double-lynch.
Yet you voted Dieno because "the thread was going nowhere."
On March 02 2013 11:15 Acrofales wrote: This thread is dead and drifting. Lets kill Dieno and move on.
##vote Dienosore
On March 02 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote: yep
##Vote: Dienosore
syl goes up for lynch tomorrow regardless of what dieno flips
The only reason I can think of for you wanting to vote Dieno is for the sake of appeasing the town. You had every reason to want to push for a double-lynch yesterday, and you didn't stick to your guns.
Thrawn is mafia. Discuss.
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Also, I think Cora is town.
He spent all of yesterday taking an extremely unpopular opinion against everyone else in the thread. It should be clear from yesterday that Dieno was bussed, and Cora instead attracted as much attention to himself as possible by voting Syl.
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Lastly, I want to see a Snarfs/Thrawn duel tomorrow.
A reminder of his opening post...
On February 25 2013 03:06 Snarfs wrote: Ahhh yesss!! Finally a game where I'm not mafia! It's been too long. Far too long.
Obvious rule number 1: no one calls for a duel unless we have a majority of the thread agreeing on it.
Obvious rule number 2: we use as much of the day as possible before calling for duels.
Anyone ignoring rules 1 or 2 should be put under extreme scrutiny for acting against town goals.
Super excited to play town, proceeds to lurk and post a bunch of one-liners. The fact that it's Night 2 and he hasn't fixed this means that he needs to be on the chopping block tomorrow, and has a high chance of flipping red.
Also, my ego would love it if I caught 3 mafia on Day 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=26#514
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On March 02 2013 14:55 Acrofales wrote: Hapa is not reading the thread... like... at all. He just threw those quotes together from thrawn without even looking at the other posts thrawn made.
Hapa scum?
Yeah Thrawn backed down, but that doesn't invalidate the point.
At the time of the hammer (evidenced by his posts after the Nightpost), he supported a Syl lynch. Why would he not go for the double-lynch then?
On March 02 2013 14:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote: Also, I think Cora is town.
He spent all of yesterday taking an extremely unpopular opinion against everyone else in the thread. It should be clear from yesterday that Dieno was bussed, and Cora instead attracted as much attention to himself as possible by voting Syl. Yeah, that opinion has been voiced about 50 times now.
Oh whoops. Yeah I dunno how I missed that stuff.
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On March 02 2013 15:03 Acrofales wrote: Okay, Hapa. Is Sylencia scum?
Probably not. I agree with Adam's analysis of things, and given the types of players that Syl/Dieno are, I can't really see them doing something that brave as a scum-pair.
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On March 02 2013 15:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 15:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 02 2013 15:03 Acrofales wrote: Okay, Hapa. Is Sylencia scum? Probably not. I agree with Adam's analysis of things, and given the types of players that Syl/Dieno are, I can't really see them doing something that brave as a scum-pair. So your reasoning for thrawn being scum is that he hammered his scumbuddy instead of hoping for a 1-1 trade? And just so he could hammer before someone else did, which was bound to happen anyway?
Yes my theory is that Thrawn hammered his scumbuddy Dieno yesterday. His voting actions were not consistent with his suspicions yesterday.
He was very convinced of the Syl/Dieno scum team yesterday. If that is true, why on earth would he not want a double lynch? There is ZERO incentive for him not wanting both to be dead yesterday. Instead, he hammered Dieno because he agreed with you that "discussion was going nowhere."
It's completely inconsistent with his suspicions. The only reason Thrawn voted Dieno was to look good.
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On March 02 2013 15:13 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa wanna duel?
No, I want to see you and Snarfs duel.
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On March 02 2013 15:21 thrawn2112 wrote:well wtf are we going to do about corozon? i don't think he's bluffing, and I don't want either syl or cor to be up for lynch tomorrow. so, dueling party at deadline? don't forget your gun Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 15:17 Hapahauli wrote:On March 02 2013 15:13 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa wanna duel? No, I want to see you and Snarfs duel. i'm not dueling snarfs. haven't even read his filter recently. plus town gets no info from thrawn flipping town. hapa please reread my filter in its entirety and let me know if you are srs about this
So why dont you: a) Read Snarfs filter b) Tell me how the fuck you voting Dieno yesterday makes sense.
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On March 02 2013 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote: why aren't you willing to duel? I am your #1 scumread, no?
We'll deal with that tomorrow. I'm more concerned about talking about relevant things. Once again, your vote on Dieno. Explain.
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On March 02 2013 15:48 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 15:29 Hapahauli wrote:On March 02 2013 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote: why aren't you willing to duel? I am your #1 scumread, no? We'll deal with that tomorrow. I'm more concerned about talking about relevant things. Once again, your vote on Dieno. Explain. Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 18:22 thrawn2112 wrote: If I have to assume that both aren't scum (which i'm conflicted about atm) I am taking syl's side against dieno. kinda waiting for syl to show up before deciding if I want double lynch
also if you read my filter it is pretty obvious that I'd lynch dieno over syl any day. what is the issue you have with my vote? your case is that i voted for guy who flipped red, while I should have voted for double lynch? yes I wanted to double lynch, and I also preferred dieno over syl. i don't exactly see what you're trying to accuse me of... especially since syl is unflipped.
The issue I have is that you were suspicious as fuck of Syl all of yesterday and weren't trying to get him killed. There is no townie motivation for you not pushing for a double-lynch yesterday.
while we're on the topic of voting actions during d2, lets look at yours: Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 09:29 Hapahauli wrote: Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected.
Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town. and that's all you did. you didn't stay in the thread talking about dieno's/syls's post or give anaylsis about which might be scum or which might be town. you didn't do anything.
Dieno was my scumread from Day 1. You literally copied my case on him, so don't tell me I didn't do a post-by-post analysis.
whats the story of your suspicions on me this game? when did they change and stuff etc, leading up till now
I went from "thrawn is off" to "thrawn is scum" after the deadline. Again, no townie reason for you not pushing for the double lynch yesterday.
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On March 02 2013 16:08 thrawn2112 wrote: HAPA:
you did nothing yesterday. you immediately decided that they should both get lynched and that they should prove themselves town. then you disappeared from the thread until after the flip
did either of them prove they were town to you? if not, then why were you not talking people out of a double lynch? you made no significant contribution in a day where a scum was lynched, and we made a major decision not to stick with the plan of double lynching.
I was away - hard to talk people out of something when I'm not there. Hell I wasn't expecting the day to run under 24 hours, and I would have tried to get my ass in the thread had I had known.
And you still haven't given a reason to me for why you didn't push to kill Syl - one of your top scumreads - yesterday.
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On March 02 2013 16:18 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa here is your case against me:
thrawn wanted both dieno and syl dead
thrawn decided to only kill dieno
..........
thrawn is scum???
I can't answer your question because it doesn't make sense. Why didn't I decide to kill syl? Read my back and forth with Adam where he convinces me it's logically smarter to only kill 1 of them. The 2nd to last time I voted Dieno my mind was basically made up. I only unvoted because I wanted to stall the cycle out longer to let people such as yourself post first. After awhile the thread was going nowhere so I re-voted.
That's a complete misrepresentation of what occured.
You had a chance to kill TWO of your scumreads in one shot, and you did not take it. Killing TWO of your scumreads in one shot is far better than killing ONE.
Yet you turned down the prospect of killing Syl simply because... "discussion wasn't going anywhere?!"
Sense. That makes none.
On March 02 2013 16:19 thrawn2112 wrote: adam, how is hapa obviously town
I'll answer that for him. Either I'm town, or I'm scum that decided on the brilliant strategy of bussing all of my teammates at points where it was completely unnecessary for me to do so. Uh huh.
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On March 02 2013 16:28 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 16:25 Hapahauli wrote: I'll answer that for him. Either I'm town, or I'm scum that decided on the brilliant strategy of bussing all of my teammates at points where it was completely unnecessary for me to do so. Uh huh. bussing all of your teammates instantly would be the only smart way for mafia to survive this game. everyone had been calling dieno and keir scum since their first posts.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, that's totally the most likely and reasonably explanation for it. Totally.
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On March 02 2013 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote: Hapa, I'm serious, do you want to duel?
That's what I'm trying to decide right now. You're not responding to this like I would have expected scum-Thrawn to tbh.
I still can't for the life of me see why you wouldn't take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.
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Yeah fuck it Thrawn's probably town. He's not reacting to this like he would as scum at all. He was one of the first on Kei with me, and that's pretty early for the bus given the momentum on Adam.
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I still want to see Snarfs on the duel team tomorrow. Adam thinks that both Dieno defenders on Day 1 are scum, but that seems a bit too optimistic.
As for Snarfs, he basically never mentions Dieno at all in his filter. The one time he does, it's a random passing comment:
On February 26 2013 07:40 Snarfs wrote:As of now, I'd support a Keirathi/Hapa duel. I need to read more from thrawn as it's still just a weird feeling about him, nothing concrete. I haven't read yamato's case on him yet, it was a bit too long and I didn't have time. I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv: Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Holy thread explosion, Batman.
Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 02:43 marvellosity wrote:On February 26 2013 02:38 thrawn2112 wrote: as town he'd be a good player to pick the main lynch candidate. if he's not town then we can lynch him instead thrawn, this is all weak as shit. iamp was your scumread and then you were possibly suspicious of Acro, and now you randomly want to have Hapa call a duel? Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other?
...After which we get no mention of Dieno until the Day 2 duel. He does express support for a Kei duel, HOWEVER it's notable that he doesn't show any real commitment to the idea. He never pushes it, and he even expresses some support to see Thrawn on the Day 1 duel: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=30#587 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=30#589
In fact now that I look at Snarfs filter in more detail, his Day 1 duel is also marred by non-commitments.
He starts off with this "say-nothing" diplomatic stance on the duel, keeping his options open: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=42#832
Somewhat early on, he does express support for voting Kei, but notably doesn't make a committment:
On February 27 2013 04:59 Snarfs wrote: Consider this a vote for Keirathi. I'm not going to be pressured into pushing us closer to a lynch when we need the time. I don't particularly trust everyone else to "stall for time".
Only when some other players (notably Acro) start aggressively pushing the idea of Kei = scum, does he finally go and vote Kei: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=51#1013
Since then, he's pretty much done nothing of value.
So tl;dr, Snarfs has done very little and has been extremely non-committal. I gave him some townie-points for his stance on Kei earlier, but he never really committed to anything and left his options open until pressured by other players.
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Anyway it's 3am. Weeeee.
Reply to my post above when you can Snarfs. I'll be filter diving Yamato, Zare, and Acro tomorrow to see if I can find duelist #2.
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Anyway Yamato, this whole "HAPA IS MAFIA OMG" is nearly identical to the shit you pulled in British Mini Mafia.
You were Mafia, and suddenly a switch snapped and you were foaming out of the mouth that Mr.Cheesecake was scum beyond all rationality.
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Anyway I'm more than happy to see Yamato on the duel-ballot tomorrow on the basis that he started his tirade on me ~36 hours ago with a random 1-lined comment:
On March 02 2013 01:01 yamato77 wrote: ##Vote Dienosore
You guys are most likely right about him, and I feel like Sylencia is most likely town of the two. While lurky and useless is Syl's town meta, it is not Dieno's so he can die.
As a side note I'm pretty sure Hapa is mafia, now, and much less sure of Acro.
And we've still heard nothing substantial on the subject.
In addition, his whole "I'MMA GOIN TO DUEL HAPA" stance is absurd given how he was attacking Adam for much the same behavior earlier in the game. He nearly lynched Adam for Adam's rushed duel, has been extolling patience as a virtue when dueling, and all of a sudden wants blood.
This lack of patience was also something he did in British Mini Mafia (as Mafia), where he talked up being patient in policy-talk (regarding hammers in instant-lynch majority games), then rushed a hammer against a townie on Day 1.
Combine all of this with Thrawn's post last night... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=89#1780
... and Yamato has a pretty good chance of flipping scum.
Gonna look into Zapa/Acro, and re-look into Snarfs.
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I haven't changed my mind on either. I still think Syl is town, given how fast Dieno pulled the trigger on him.
As for Cora, I talked about him last night no? I just can't see Mafia taking such a controversial stance with the town on the Dieno/Syl duel. It seems pretty clear that Dieno was bussed, and unless Cora didn't get the memo, he's probably town.
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On March 03 2013 09:21 Acrofales wrote: Hapa, your stance on Syl has been far from clear. The last time you gave your opinion on Syl you wanted to double-lynch and were happily leaning scum on Syl. How can you say your read hasn't changed?
Yeah I wanted Syl dead, then was away from the thread for half a day. I came back, caught up, and found myself agreeing with Adam. Though by that point, the hammer already dropped.
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It's the easiest thing in the world ever to build a town case on someone. That definitely doenst' make Yamato town.
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Well some read-updates of my own.
I will say that I agree with Snarfs on Acro, but for different reasons. That Dieno town-read looked strange to me as well. HOWEVER, I just can't reconcile the rest of his behavior with scum. Acro has a 15 page filter at the end of Day 2. That's nuts. That's too active for mafia standards methinks. And it's not just random spam... he questions people and seems legitimately interested in the game. If he's mafia, well played to him, but I just don't see it.
I read a couple of Acro's mafia games, and I've never seen a similar level of activity. I've never seen a super-active player flip mafia, and I don't think Acro's a good bet here.
As for Snarfs - I managed to read through his Nomination Mafia game. He does act a tad more passive in that game, but I haven't seen anything in this game that's noticably different. Snarfs hasn't been all too active, but it looks like he's around more right now, and I'd like to see what he has to say for tomorrow.
The one thing that's really in his favor is that he was on Kei early, and it might be best to take that at face value. Downgrading him to null for now.
I only managed a quick readthrough of Zape's filter, and the major thing I got was him being completely AWOL from the thread as of late. I wouldn't mind seeing him duel just on that basis, because the rest of his filter is pretty "meh." He did have a huge fight with Acro about the double lynch (which I saw as townie at one point), but that aggression hasn't been present anywhere else in his filter.
Yamato+Zape duel sounds good for tomorrow.
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'Mornin all. Let's get crackin.
Regarding the Yamato Case
His case is based on three things: 1) My "Uncommittal" Stance on the Day 1 Duel 2) A "Strange" Quote about the Dieno Duel 3) My lack of presence during the Day 2 Duel
1) My "Uncommittal" Stance on the Day 1 Duel
Basically Yamato cherry-picks one of my quotes and points fingers that I was uncommittal about the Day 1 Duel. This is complete garbage.
For one, it was very clear that I was committed to voting Kei. Why? Because I was CONVINCED that Adam was town because of his dueling actions. There are many posts in which I make very clear that I had zero intention of voting Adam. A couple of examples: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=38#748 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=39#780 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=40#783
Yamato thinks that because I didn't pick an arbitrary scumread from the two, I was non-committal. That's bullshit - I had strong feelings that Adam was town from the outset of the duel, and if that's not "committal" I don't know what is. Yet Yamato cherry-picked one of my quotes and thinks it's possible that "scum-Hapa" IMMEDIATELY took a stance that would have forced "scum-Hapa" to lynch his scum-buddy.
2) A "Strange" Quote about the Dieno Duel
Yamato thinks this quote is suspicious...
On March 01 2013 09:29 Hapahauli wrote: Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected.
Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town.
...because it "seems" planned.
Response: lol
3) My lack of presence during the Day 2 Duel
He's right about though, I wasn't home for most of Day 2 and didn't get the chance to comment much on it.
However, Yamato once again has to explain how Dieno was my scumread on Day 0. Spoilered below for your convenience: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=26#514 + Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 08:06 Hapahauli wrote:... My other scumread outside of the above is Dienosaur. He's been far less active than I remembered him being in Chrono Trigger Mafia. In addition: 1) His response to Adam's case feels very very forced:Show nested quote +nformation is power in this game, so I didn't really expect a detailed answer to my question. I went fishing and came up empty, big deal. I'll continue fishing until I get a bite.
As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now.
Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town.
Bring it on. When Adam calls him out, he's super-confrontational to the max, and wants to create this glorious showdown between him and Adam. However when Adam slightly backs down: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote:On February 25 2013 12:48 Adam4167 wrote: You can still change my mind, I am not a tunnel machine. I pull out of shit tunnels all the time, as I did with GoodKarma in Chrono or SacredSystem in a newbie I subbed into with Zarepath months ago.
You are right, we have more than enough time to deliberate, I am making my intentions known now so we can discuss it at depth.
You want to change my mind? Go find scum. I'd like to think Ill know pretty quickly if what you're posting is genuine or piffle. Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly.Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though. The bolded is what gets me. If he thinks Adam is scum (previous quote), why should he give a shit what Adam thinks? In addition, it's a huge emotional 180 from someone who wanted nothing but confrontation only 1 post ago. 2) His "Map"I remember him drawing a Map in Chrono Trigger (as town), but this one feels different. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#343He draws his map here, but doesn't offer any actual reads until Yamato prods him for it. He then offers a bunch of completely noncommittal reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=18#345
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And I think it's really clear from Yamato's "duel" antics here that he's simply not interested in finding out my alignment.
He called me scum over 48 hours ago, promising all the way to provide a case against me. Since then, he's never given me an opportunity to explain myself, never asked me a single question, and has never attempted to interact with me.
Then last night, he plops a case down at 5am and pulls the Duel trigger.
That's not a town thought process, much less a town-Yamato thought process.
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On March 04 2013 05:27 yamato77 wrote: You forgot to mention the part where you first defended Deino n0.
WHAT NOW BITCH
Yes because things in the early hours of Day 0 are totally alignment indicative.
And once again, I was very clear about my desire to see Dieno in a duel on Day 1.
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Fuckin... THRAWN/Snarfs.
Can't even read my own filter.
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On March 04 2013 05:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 05:21 Hapahauli wrote: And I think it's really clear from Yamato's "duel" antics here that he's simply not interested in finding out my alignment.
He called me scum over 48 hours ago, promising all the way to provide a case against me. Since then, he's never given me an opportunity to explain myself, never asked me a single question, and has never attempted to interact with me.
Then last night, he plops a case down at 5am and pulls the Duel trigger.
That's not a town thought process, much less a town-Yamato thought process.
As you recommended, I have read over British Empire... and I don't see the same aggressive Yamato as I see here. Yamato seems far more involved here. I also still don't see a reason for him to duel you if he's scum, let alone get all triggerhappy about it. Can someone give me a scum explanation for this? ...
The first few pages of that game were his first scum-game. Then he started getting SUPER aggressive when he got comfortable. Started about Page 3-4 of his filter (when he starts going after Mr.Cheesecake and calling everyone else stupid).
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On March 04 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote: Was @ Acro
Also, your read on Deino was right and mine wrong, so there's that, too.
I'm pretty sure Acro defending Dieno early on.
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On March 04 2013 05:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 05:53 Hapahauli wrote:On March 04 2013 05:48 yamato77 wrote: Was @ Acro
Also, your read on Deino was right and mine wrong, so there's that, too. I'm pretty sure Acro defending Dieno early on. He's talking about my read when he was making his giant case on me.
Yeah, but even if so, where was Yamato's read on Dieno "wrong?" This quote comes to mind:
On March 01 2013 01:41 yamato77 wrote: Dieno might well be mafia, too, but I want Acro dead first.
I don't see where he calls Dieno town or even townie.
The closest thing I found was this:
If you think Dieno is mafia, I want more detailed analysis from you on the subject. I played a part in lynching him in Parallel when he was fairly useless as town, and barely scumhunted at all. I see very little difference between his play that game and this game.
And that's not even a stance, given that he turns around 30 minutes later and starts leaning scum on Dieno:
On March 01 2013 05:26 yamato77 wrote: Hm.
You may be right on Dieno
I reread his igrok filter from Parallel, and it seems he is far from useless there.
We shall see.
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While I don't mind more discussion going on, that post is complete nonsense Acro.
I decided that I cannot make much sense of Yamato scum. His D1 play is just too aggressive. He pushes the whole macho-man idea aggressively, gets in a stupid shouting match with Cora and does lots of other insane stuff. He is way too aggressive at me too, but doesn't get stuck in a tunnel like in BEM and is willing to back down off his reads.
Yamato is an aggressive, spazzy personality regardless of alignment. You seem to think that him backing down from reads is indicative of him being town, but I haven't seen anything from those actions that shows off a town mentality. Off the top of my head, these are some of his tunnels this game:
1) Wants Kei dead. Then when Adam duels Kei, completely forgets about Kei to tunnel Adam. Only drops his tunnel on Adam when it's very clear that Kei was going to get lynched.
2) Wants you (Acro) dueled on Day 2. Completely batshit convinced that you're scum. Softpushes Dieno repeatedly:
On March 01 2013 01:41 yamato77 wrote: Dieno might well be mafia, too, but I want Acro dead first.
Somewhat sticks up for Dieno once:
If you think Dieno is mafia, I want more detailed analysis from you on the subject. I played a part in lynching him in Parallel when he was fairly useless as town, and barely scumhunted at all. I see very little difference between his play that game and this game.
...Then "derp whoops now that I read his filter in Parallel again, it's not what I think it was!"
On March 01 2013 05:26 yamato77 wrote: Hm.
You may be right on Dieno
I reread his igrok filter from Parallel, and it seems he is far from useless there.
We shall see.
3) Wants me (Hapa) dead. Starts off on it 48 hours ago, and never comes up with a case or gives me an opportunity to respond to whatever his suspicions were. Then accuses the town of being "lazy" as one of the stated motivations for his duel. There is a contradiction here, do you see it?
I believe it's possible scum Hapa has been playing the long game. He identified early that Dieno was playing terribly and got on the bus. He then identified early that he wouldn't be able to save Keirathi with Keirathi's commitment and playing level, when Adam dueled him.
It is also possible that I'm a pink unicorn with butterfly wings.
Just because something is "possible" doesn't mean that you should dismiss the entire argument that my actions make no sense from a scum perspective. How likely is it that I did what I did as scum?
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On March 04 2013 10:12 yamato77 wrote: I've been on you all game, dude.
Stop playing around like I just made this up out of thin air.
O really?
You backed off your initial suspicions early in the game when popular opinion wasn't with you. Then you came up with a random "Hapa is scum" comment 48 hours ago. You plopped down your case at 5 am in the morning, never gave anyone time to address the case, and here we are.
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Firstly, did you not read anything I posted above? His tunnels and switches this game have been non-sensical and have lined up pretty much exactly with mafia motivations this game.
Secondly:
Hrmm ok. I agree that he does get pretty obnoxiously aggressive in British Empire. However, he also gets a giant tunnel on. He never doubts his reads. He never recants a scumread and doesn't seem to reconsider anything.
I don't really see the two games as following a similar track. But it was his very first scumgame, so it's not much of an argument against him being scum either.
Anyway this is the last I'm going to talk about Yamato. While I think he's scum, it's pretty clear that I have a conflict of interest here. Even if he could prove to me now that he had a 99.9% chance of flipping town, I'd still support lynching him just on the basis that I know that I'm town.
Now if someone other than myself, Yamato, and Acro could post, I could get to more productive subjects.
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On March 04 2013 10:26 cDgCorazon wrote: I think it would be likely that if another scum besides Dieno and Kei would've seen that their scumteam is probably going to be two less, they would play for the long run and try to bus their teammates early.
I don't think it's possible, I think that it is probable.
Funny you say "long-term" - I'm like the worst option for a long-term scum team member ever. In the last two scum games I've played, I've explicitly told my buddies to bus me early on the basis that there's rarely a good explanation for why I'd be alive in the late game.
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Yeah, trying not to get mislynched is "scummy."
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And as far as "LoL is that your defense" - go and read every damn thing I've posted over the last 10 hours or so in my defense, and then get back to me.
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On March 04 2013 10:42 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:41 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah, trying not to get mislynched is "scummy." Way to not answer my first point.
First of all, why would another scum tell Kei and Dieno, players who had been pegged as scum 36 hours into the game, to bus them? That would accomplish nothing and the smallest association case could see that as a bus.
You made a good point. Nothing I can really say to that.
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On March 04 2013 10:46 cDgCorazon wrote: Well I think the arguments and play speak for themselves. I'll keep looking through filters and come to a vote soon.
There's not much else for me to say.
Well what's the argument? That it's possible that I double bussed, therefore I could be scum? That's just stupid.
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On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:30 Hapahauli wrote:Firstly, did you not read anything I posted above? His tunnels and switches this game have been non-sensical and have lined up pretty much exactly with mafia motivations this game. Secondly: Hrmm ok. I agree that he does get pretty obnoxiously aggressive in British Empire. However, he also gets a giant tunnel on. He never doubts his reads. He never recants a scumread and doesn't seem to reconsider anything.
I don't really see the two games as following a similar track. But it was his very first scumgame, so it's not much of an argument against him being scum either.
Anyway this is the last I'm going to talk about Yamato. While I think he's scum, it's pretty clear that I have a conflict of interest here. Even if he could prove to me now that he had a 99.9% chance of flipping town, I'd still support lynching him just on the basis that I know that I'm town. Now if someone other than myself, Yamato, and Acro could post, I could get to more productive subjects. One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum?
Stupid question. I'll answer that if Yamato flips town.
As for scum #2, Zape's lack of "giving a shit" about the game makes him scum in my eyes. We've had success lynching two similar players, and he's the one I'd like to see hang next.
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I believe that's the point Acro.
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Acro, I want it straight from you right now - what is your read on me, and how likely do you think is it that I'll flip mafia? I've heard plenty of "oh he could have done <xxxxx> and <yyyyyy>" but nothing else.
Less story-telling, and more reads. Go.
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On March 04 2013 11:07 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:48 Hapahauli wrote:On March 04 2013 10:46 cDgCorazon wrote: Well I think the arguments and play speak for themselves. I'll keep looking through filters and come to a vote soon.
There's not much else for me to say. Well what's the argument? That it's possible that I double bussed, therefore I could be scum? That's just stupid. I actually find this to be a great question. Let's hear an answer Hapa.
I have been staring at this for 60 seconds and I still have no idea what you're asking me.
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On March 04 2013 11:26 cDgCorazon wrote:T.T I messed up again... Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote: One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum?
[rant]
Firstly, it is a stupid question. "Hmmm you have all these scumreads, but scrap them and give me new ones!" is an invitation to get uninformed bullshit rather than anything of substance.
[/rant]
As for the answer, I don't have one. I think Yamato and Zape are the scumteam.
IF Yamato somehow flips town, I'd probably take a look at you, Snarfs, and Alderan for the next one. That's probably what I'll do tomorrow during my lunch break. In the mean time, I'm not going to pull an answer out of my ass.
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On March 04 2013 11:37 Acrofales wrote: If you want a positive case for you being scum, it all boils down to that I expect a far more pro-town stepping-up-to-the-plate attitude from you as town. That has been entirely missing this game.
You refer to CT for other games where you took a step back, but you were still actively scumhunting. This game everything has just sort of happened to you. I have the distinct feeling that the only reason that you're calling Yamato scum is because he dueled you and it's mano-a-mano now. I see NO mention of a Yamato is scum idea bouncing around in your filter until he duels you.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=64#1263
Buried in this post is the root of my Yamato suspicions.
What tipped the edge was how completely uninterested he seems in figuring out my allignment. He had 48 hours to ask me a question, interact with me, or basically do anything. Instead he sat back, bombed a shitty case (which apparently no one has read or considered my response to it), and dueled me while I was asleep.
Again, all I hear is "I have a feeling" this, and "it is a possibility" that.
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On March 04 2013 11:41 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On March 04 2013 11:26 cDgCorazon wrote:T.T I messed up again... On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote: One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum? [rant] Firstly, it is a stupid question. "Hmmm you have all these scumreads, but scrap them and give me new ones!" is an invitation to get uninformed bullshit rather than anything of substance. [/rant]
As for the answer, I don't have one. I think Yamato and Zape are the scumteam. IF Yamato somehow flips town, I'd probably take a look at you, Snarfs, and Alderan for the next one. That's probably what I'll do tomorrow during my lunch break. In the mean time, I'm not going to pull an answer out of my ass. Me? Nice OMGUS.
Yes. Deal with it.
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On March 04 2013 11:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:34 Adam4167 wrote: This bus would blow Hero mafia's bus out of the fucking water it would be so epic.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see that coming from the guy that claimed godfather in nested spoilers..... (no offense Hapa) So, lets stop on Hapa for a sec. My reasons for Hapa being scum are inspired by my efforts to make a conclusive case on Yamato. His play is just way more illogical than Hapa's for scum. Also, if you want to talk about illogical busses: Yamato flipped his reads 180º to vote for Adam in a fit of anger. Then 24 (or so) hours later, he is on the Keirathi train. If there was 1 person in the thread at that time who could jump on the double lynch with no negative consequences, it was Yamato. Yet he flipped 180º back to Keirathi instead. If you want to make the no-double-lynch-bus an issue, Yamato's makes less sense.
Two things are horridly wrong with this. 1) He called Adam and Kei likely town somewhere in the middle of the day: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=49#975
2) This is the votecount when Yamato votes Kei:
On February 28 2013 02:19 gonzaw wrote:Duel 1 Vote Count Adam4167 (4): yamato77, Sylencia, cDgCorazon, Dienosore Keirathi (5): Oatsmaster, Alderan, zarepath, Hapahauli, Snarfs 7 votes needed to lynch. If a majority is not reached by 07:40 GMT (+00:00), both duelists will die.
It's pretty fucking clear that Kei was going to get lynched solo at this point. Yamato has no choice but to bus here.
Are we reading the same filter?
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On March 04 2013 12:09 Acrofales wrote: What was clear about it? Syl was AFK with no guarantees of returning and Dieno was scum. Iamp and thrawn were on the double-lynch train with me. So if Yamato was scum he only had to worry about Dieno... and if he was worried about Dieno's vote ending on the wrong candidate, his voteswitch came at a terrible time anyway.
What was clear is that Adam was not going to get lynched alone. Other than that, it was Yamato who stopped the double-lynch (with Cora).
Because momentum just wildly swung to Kei.
Secondly, you ignored the first point, in which Yamato was committed to a single lynch. He was also posting that he was against the idea of a double-lynch at all costs around that time. Funny you don't get that, when you just posted the same thing above in regards to myself.
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On March 04 2013 12:21 Acrofales wrote: Momentum HAD swung wildly to Kei: there was no way Adam was going to get single-lynched, but at that point, if Yamato was scum they had 2 of the 4 possible swing votes. All they needed to do was rally behind a group of townies (Iamp, thrawn and me).
Alternatively, Yamato could choose to stay put on Adam and be a stubborn dick about it. Dieno could go double-lynching. They just had to bet on Syl staying AFK or sticking with his Adam read. They could clearly trust me to keep rallying the double-lynch troops. Yamato could have kicked up a fuss to lynch Adam.
Yet.. he didn't, and caused what was clearly a bad lynch for scum to happen easily.
The difference between Yamato and your position on double-lynching is that you were on Keir and had said you had 2 town reads. Yamato had given a scumread on Keir, then a scumread on Adam. He eventually flipped to a townread on Adam and a slightly-less-town-read on Keir. And all of that just so he could NOT push the mafia agenda.
That makes no fucking sense.
First, you say that Yamato could have "rallied behind a group of townies" to get the double-lynch.
But this is CLEARLY not the case given what he was saying far before then: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=49#975
THAT said, I don't want both to die. The mere thought of a double lynch is hilariously stupid in this situation, and I don't like the idea of not choosing either of them at all. Mafia have an unprecedented ability to hide in this situation, because they don't even have to FAKE a read on a player and justify it, they can just say they think they're both worth lynching and not vote, causing a double lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=49#978
On February 27 2013 16:54 yamato77 wrote: Well, we should definitely not let both die.
And we should definitely make sure we don't jump the gun on being stupid with these sort of duels in the future, because as my initial reaction showed, it's mafia-favored to do something like this.
That said, I think I have some decent reads out of what happened today, so going into tomorrow, I hope people start listening to me.
Yamato had no option to double lynch. He was vehemently against the idea far before he switched onto Kei. Your distinction...
The difference between Yamato and your position on double-lynching is that you were on Keir and had said you had 2 town reads. Yamato had given a scumread on Keir, then a scumread on Adam.
...is completely meaningless. This is how Yamato's lynch actions played out: 1) Wants Kier dead pre-lynch 2) Wants Adam dead right after the lynch 3) Thinks both are town, DOES NOT WANT A DOUBLE LYNCH 4) All of a sudden thinks Kei is scum when the momentum shifts.
Explain to me how Yamato could get from step #3 to "double lynch."
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I had a scum-read on you before you dueled me Yamato. Don't twist things.
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On March 04 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 12:34 Hapahauli wrote: I had a scum-read on you before you dueled me Yamato. Don't twist things. Once you figured out I wanted to lynch you. Think about this, mafia Hapa, what is your plan if you get me lynched and I flip town and everyone realizes you actually are mafia?
Don't know, don't think it will happen, and don't care.
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You saw through my LIES
o.o
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Rofl I knew something was wrong with Snarfs xD
Though admittedly I thought Acro was the traitor until he decided to look into my meta
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In the spirit of the TL Mafia Podcast thread, would anyone want to get on Skype/GoogleHangout and bitch about discuss the gameplay? I can prepare a few questions, grab some beers, and hit the record button. Perhaps some people would find it fun to watch.
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On March 07 2013 01:36 Acrofales wrote: I could tonight, but not while I'm at work.
Tonight's free for me as well. It'd be fun if we could grab 3-4 people for a chat.
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On March 07 2013 01:31 marvellosity wrote: don't even have a mic :p
Buy one and get your drunk-ass on Skype =P
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On March 07 2013 01:51 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 01:43 Hapahauli wrote:On March 07 2013 01:36 Acrofales wrote: I could tonight, but not while I'm at work. Tonight's free for me as well. It'd be fun if we could grab 3-4 people for a chat. Depending on when, but I could too
How's 01:00 GMT (+00:00) work?
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On March 07 2013 02:53 zarepath wrote:I would just like to state for the record that the three people who immediately claimed town at the beginning of this game (Keirathi, Snarfs, and Hapa) were ALL scum. Each and every one of them. I was right to hate it.
Well to be fair I do that in almost every game I'm in regardless of alignment =P
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On March 07 2013 02:49 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 02:31 Hapahauli wrote:On March 07 2013 01:51 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 07 2013 01:43 Hapahauli wrote:On March 07 2013 01:36 Acrofales wrote: I could tonight, but not while I'm at work. Tonight's free for me as well. It'd be fun if we could grab 3-4 people for a chat. Depending on when, but I could too How's 01:00 GMT (+00:00) work? I may or may not have time here, I clearly won't contribute much since I wasn't in the game but I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. How would I, as an observer, get a hold of this conversation after the fact?
I'll record it and upload it somewhere.
Also if anyone has any questions or points they want addressed, feel free to PM me or bring it up in-thread. Here's my short-list for now:
- General game summary/viewpoint from each player
- Opinions on the set-up
- Thoughts on the gameplay (particularly the duels)
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On March 07 2013 03:04 thrawn2112 wrote: eh i wanna participate but i dont have a mic. maybe i can just sit in the skype convo and spam youtube links?
Buy a mic!
You're welcome to get on chat and spam some questions - lmk.
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On March 07 2013 03:16 zarepath wrote: How do I get in on this Skype chat? I may or may not be able to participate depending on things (like my participation in mafia, lol), but I"d like to if I can.
Add me on skype (Screen name = hapahauli), and I'll send you an invite when we kick things off @ 01:00 GMT (+00:00)
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Got skype Adam? We're gonna chat about the game in 2 hours or so.
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