EPTOn February 13 2013 07:39 phagga wrote:
Dude, I might do the deciding vote here, I just want to be sure it's the right pick.
That said, snarfs is a lurker, for whatever reason. VE had stuff in his play that just did not make any sense from a town perspective. Let's lynch VE.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
Dude, I might do the deciding vote here, I just want to be sure it's the right pick.
That said, snarfs is a lurker, for whatever reason. VE had stuff in his play that just did not make any sense from a town perspective. Let's lynch VE.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
On February 13 2013 07:50 slOosh wrote:
VE, please, don't do this again. You know how that ended up.
A scum team of Snarfs, phagga, prplhz and Oats makes unbelievable sense. For me to believe that, it means I have to read you town. I'm doing the best I can. It's been a long time since I've rolled town, I missed a huge portion of D1 because of real life and I'm not as confident as I normally am.
Like ... I dunno!
And I'm dead serious about this. If it gives you ease of mind
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Snarfs
##Unvote: Snarfs
VE, please, don't do this again. You know how that ended up.
A scum team of Snarfs, phagga, prplhz and Oats makes unbelievable sense. For me to believe that, it means I have to read you town. I'm doing the best I can. It's been a long time since I've rolled town, I missed a huge portion of D1 because of real life and I'm not as confident as I normally am.
Like ... I dunno!
And I'm dead serious about this. If it gives you ease of mind
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Snarfs
##Unvote: Snarfs
On February 13 2013 07:55 phagga wrote:
You know what, fuck it.
##unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Snarfs
let's lynch the scummy lurker.
You know what, fuck it.
##unvote: VisceraEyes
##Vote: Snarfs
let's lynch the scummy lurker.
It appears you are right CC. Phagga did do a case on VE also before his vote on VE
On February 12 2013 06:33 phagga wrote:
Regarding VE:
As some of you might remember I was pressuring VE a bit about his behavior around the palmar vote. I think there is a breakdown in his logic.
I originally wrote a post to him asking why he voted the target of his scum read:
+ Show Spoiler +
He answered and I followed up:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
Now comes the fun part. His response to my last post was that Palmar "didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched." and that he knows "that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again." This is his justification for his vote for prplhz. However, when he actually voted prplhz he wrote that if Palmar pushes his target, he will get him lynched. Also, at that time there was no way for him to know if Palmar would push prplhz or not. And finally, if Palmar was scum (as VE read him), and Palmar would actively push prplhz to get lynched, then prplhz would with a high probability be town. (Scum actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate on D1? Not impossible, but very unlikely).
So, to break it down into few simple phrases:
VE votes prplhz with the premise that if palmar, who is his scumread, pushes a lynch on prplhz, he will get it through. VE then later says that palmar might be bussing his teammate. That leaves two conclusions for VE's intentions when he voted prp in this post. 1.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and is actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate D1, hence VE votes prplhz. 2.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and has the ability to lynch a town prplhz, and VE is perfectly happy with that.
The first one is very unlikely, the second one very scummy. Also note how VE actually writes that Palmars vote on prplhz makes the latter the best lynch candidate. The fact that VE never came up with a more satisfying explanation despite me asking him several times makes it pretty clear to me that his intentions were to hurt town.
Riddle me this: If sloosh comes up to any of you townies, and asks if you could talk with him about it, and you have the next 30 minutes freely available. What do you do? I guess you would go read sloosh's case and comment on it. But what does VE do?
Notice the time stamps. It would have been easy to shortly look into Sloosh's 2-page filter to find his case and comment on it. Or he could have gone and read my filter and make his own read on me. But VE was doing nothing. How did he even want to discuss anything on me when he did not even know about the facts?
This are my 2 points that made me think VE could be scum. Sloosh adds a couple good points himself, I can go with that. Therefor, I think VE is scum.
I've seen Cheeses' case on Yamato, and I have to read through it properly. However, not now, cause I'm tired as hell after sacrificing too much sleep for mafia this weekend. I'll take a shower and be back in about 30 minutes, if you have any questions I will answer them then, else/afterwards I'm off to bed.
Regarding VE:
As some of you might remember I was pressuring VE a bit about his behavior around the palmar vote. I think there is a breakdown in his logic.
I originally wrote a post to him asking why he voted the target of his scum read:
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 08 2013 08:08 phagga wrote:
VE: regarding your Palmar vote: You voted Palmar saying that it is a scum tell that he does not comment on random lynching.
Later on you said palmar does not care, and that is a sign that he is scum. Both this points have been refuted by oats (with the Marv vote) and me (Death note). What's baffling me is that I feel you should have known better than that. You were in LVIII with Marv and Palmar and even answered to the very quote of Marv that oats posted. And even without this, you are long enough active here that i would expect you to know that palmar does these stunts as town sometimes. Therefor I really feel you tried to pull a Risen here and lynch palmar for his inactivity although you should know that he could be town, and could be a an important asset to town later on.
So, you vote Palmar because he is scum according to you, and then you switch to Palmars target (prplhz) saying if Palmar (who you think is scum) is going to push prplhz, he will get his will anyway. So you freely succumb to scum? What is this? Oh, I forgot, you will of course still be happy to lynch palmar if someone else wants to, but now you no longer want to push him, and instead push the target of your scumread!
How is that a town motivated move?
VE: regarding your Palmar vote: You voted Palmar saying that it is a scum tell that he does not comment on random lynching.
Later on you said palmar does not care, and that is a sign that he is scum. Both this points have been refuted by oats (with the Marv vote) and me (Death note). What's baffling me is that I feel you should have known better than that. You were in LVIII with Marv and Palmar and even answered to the very quote of Marv that oats posted. And even without this, you are long enough active here that i would expect you to know that palmar does these stunts as town sometimes. Therefor I really feel you tried to pull a Risen here and lynch palmar for his inactivity although you should know that he could be town, and could be a an important asset to town later on.
So, you vote Palmar because he is scum according to you, and then you switch to Palmars target (prplhz) saying if Palmar (who you think is scum) is going to push prplhz, he will get his will anyway. So you freely succumb to scum? What is this? Oh, I forgot, you will of course still be happy to lynch palmar if someone else wants to, but now you no longer want to push him, and instead push the target of your scumread!
How is that a town motivated move?
He answered and I followed up:
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 08 2013 08:43 phagga wrote:
Of course Palmar is capable of bussing his teammates, but you MUST have been aware at this point that Palmar could have voted a townie. And let's just be clear: this post
came after the post I quoted before. So what you are saying is that a) Palmar has a lot of influence, b) Palmar is scum and c) Palmar comes into the thread and busses his teammate immediatly, hence you vote his teammate. That just does not make any sense to me.
And I'm not talking about Palmars alignment here (which is a different discussion), I'm solely talking about how you chose to abandon your scum read and instead voted for your scumread's target, and that I don't understand that move.
Of course Palmar is capable of bussing his teammates, but you MUST have been aware at this point that Palmar could have voted a townie. And let's just be clear: this post
came after the post I quoted before. So what you are saying is that a) Palmar has a lot of influence, b) Palmar is scum and c) Palmar comes into the thread and busses his teammate immediatly, hence you vote his teammate. That just does not make any sense to me.
And I'm not talking about Palmars alignment here (which is a different discussion), I'm solely talking about how you chose to abandon your scum read and instead voted for your scumread's target, and that I don't understand that move.
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 08 2013 08:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
He didn't explain anything in that post phagga. He didn't say why he wanted to lynch any of those targets. It barely even qualifies as a bus in that instance because he's not pushing his read and he's barely interested in where his vote goes.
And regardless of the second post you quoted, the fact remains that he didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched. This is a fact. So you can bitch at me all you want about "voting for my scumread's target", because I know that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again. Not even a "Guys lynch prplhz" like he's wont to do. Nothing.
He didn't explain anything in that post phagga. He didn't say why he wanted to lynch any of those targets. It barely even qualifies as a bus in that instance because he's not pushing his read and he's barely interested in where his vote goes.
And regardless of the second post you quoted, the fact remains that he didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched. This is a fact. So you can bitch at me all you want about "voting for my scumread's target", because I know that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again. Not even a "Guys lynch prplhz" like he's wont to do. Nothing.
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 08 2013 09:10 phagga wrote:
VE: but the point was that you explicitly wrote that if Palmar would push prplhz, he would get him lynched, and this was part of your reasoning why you voted prplhz.
So while it is true that Palmar has not pushed him, you did not have this kind of knowledge when you wrote your post yesterday, and instead claimed that prplhz was a good target because of the very fact that if Palmar pushes him, he will get prplhz lynched. That contradicts your "Palmar is bussing prplhz" theory, since a scum palmar would probably not actively push a lynch on his team mate.
VE: but the point was that you explicitly wrote that if Palmar would push prplhz, he would get him lynched, and this was part of your reasoning why you voted prplhz.
So while it is true that Palmar has not pushed him, you did not have this kind of knowledge when you wrote your post yesterday, and instead claimed that prplhz was a good target because of the very fact that if Palmar pushes him, he will get prplhz lynched. That contradicts your "Palmar is bussing prplhz" theory, since a scum palmar would probably not actively push a lynch on his team mate.
Now comes the fun part. His response to my last post was that Palmar "didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched." and that he knows "that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again." This is his justification for his vote for prplhz. However, when he actually voted prplhz he wrote that if Palmar pushes his target, he will get him lynched. Also, at that time there was no way for him to know if Palmar would push prplhz or not. And finally, if Palmar was scum (as VE read him), and Palmar would actively push prplhz to get lynched, then prplhz would with a high probability be town. (Scum actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate on D1? Not impossible, but very unlikely).
So, to break it down into few simple phrases:
VE votes prplhz with the premise that if palmar, who is his scumread, pushes a lynch on prplhz, he will get it through. VE then later says that palmar might be bussing his teammate. That leaves two conclusions for VE's intentions when he voted prp in this post. 1.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and is actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate D1, hence VE votes prplhz. 2.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and has the ability to lynch a town prplhz, and VE is perfectly happy with that.
The first one is very unlikely, the second one very scummy. Also note how VE actually writes that Palmars vote on prplhz makes the latter the best lynch candidate. The fact that VE never came up with a more satisfying explanation despite me asking him several times makes it pretty clear to me that his intentions were to hurt town.
Riddle me this: If sloosh comes up to any of you townies, and asks if you could talk with him about it, and you have the next 30 minutes freely available. What do you do? I guess you would go read sloosh's case and comment on it. But what does VE do?
Notice the time stamps. It would have been easy to shortly look into Sloosh's 2-page filter to find his case and comment on it. Or he could have gone and read my filter and make his own read on me. But VE was doing nothing. How did he even want to discuss anything on me when he did not even know about the facts?
This are my 2 points that made me think VE could be scum. Sloosh adds a couple good points himself, I can go with that. Therefor, I think VE is scum.
I've seen Cheeses' case on Yamato, and I have to read through it properly. However, not now, cause I'm tired as hell after sacrificing too much sleep for mafia this weekend. I'll take a shower and be back in about 30 minutes, if you have any questions I will answer them then, else/afterwards I'm off to bed.
His unexplained change in confidence in his read on VE is troublesome. I don't think it necessarily means scum. But, as you did say, it doesn't mean he is town either from his day 3 vote
