EPTFEARRRR MEEEEE
Nomination Mafia - Page 20
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
FEARRRR MEEEEE | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I also agree with Djo, Snarf is waffly as shit. I wanna see more from sloosh though | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 07 2013 09:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Chill out guys, I think he is scum. I also agree with Djo, Snarf is waffly as shit. I wanna see more from sloosh though You "think he is scum". Can you expound on that? ( im talking to you the way you talk to me, hoping that way we speak the same language for once) If you find that too vague, what I would say is "You think he is scum" Please identify what you think in his play is based on scum motives? Please identify if you think those motives could have town rationale behind it. | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
On February 07 2013 09:56 Oatsmaster wrote: Chill out guys, I think he is scum. I also agree with Djo, Snarf is waffly as shit. I wanna see more from sloosh though Dont use pronouns like he say the name i have no idea who you are talking about. Also Djo hasn't said anything about Snarf. Check your facts | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Sloosh, have you only played in LVIII Parellel Worlds Liquid City LVII Dwarf Fortress? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
So jay, scumreads? 'he' is Sloosh by the way | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 07 2013 10:05 Oatsmaster wrote: Dont defend him and shit, Sloosh, have you only played in LVIII Parellel Worlds Liquid City LVII Dwarf Fortress? Im not defending him. Im saying expound on what you find scummy. Your not giving a town read; your giving a scummy read, obviously you have a bunch of tells. I want to know what I am missing. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: Snarfs Still, whenever you want to sloosh, start contributing | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On February 07 2013 09:50 Mocsta wrote: Agreed. For me, its between him/yamato/jiexian. So your scumreads are three of the four people who think you might be mafia? Why do people think you're town again? | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
I also think JX has been useless so far and wouldn't mind lynching him. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Mocsta breakdown on Yamato Case against Mocsta http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=17#335 + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia. Yes, being passive-aggressive is “A” way to play mafia. There are also many other ways. Whats the point of this? You are meant to adapt to the environment at hand. I have given my thought process of how to manipulate staying off the radar; you can do that as town or scum. Your thought process is very lazy Yamato, and the outcome you have specified lacks conviction. In fact the conviction is so NOT present I can not even say you are confirmation biased. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here? I do not see how this is alignment-indicative. If so, I would have been a scum read to everyone in the game. (P.S. I was a town read at that point). And as others stated, the tone is completely different between the two. Hence as above, lazy heuristics (is starting to become a common theme). Try again. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play. The argument is completely different. I have said repeatedly, Oats is taking a simplistic view at this game. His motto is “lynch the scummiest player”; which yes, whilst the aim of the game, is not as straight forward as that line. I have pointed out several reasons why that is case. You can read my filter if you have forgotten what they are. And I disagree with your last statement. The game of forum mafia is constantly changing. Meta shifts are constantly occurring. If we know how mafia play and react, and lynch off that; we would never mislynch and the game would be instantly solved. This is obviously not the case. Again, such a blunt statement and lazy heuristics. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one. I already addressed this here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=19#373 TL;DR The mafia trait he is referring to, is actually me emulating my townie trait. Again argument that doesn’t hold up; its obvious the tone between the two quoted posted is different (as the motives are different). Lazy heuristics once again. That’s 4 strikes in a row. On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town. Who is my scum read? Yamato, who has been online whilst I was active? Only Oats; who was constantly trying to argue with me, even when I was asking to walk away. Again, your entire case, each point referenced lacks any conviction – which is highly unusual for your meta known for confirmation bias. On top of this, your case is full of lazy heuristics. All points have been disputed (easily) This lack of care is enough to warrant your vote; but lets give benefit of the doubt and examine your town tells on Phagga, and the pressure that made you release the town tells. ============================== (2) Mocsta breakdown on Yamato read on Phagga + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 01:59 yamato77 wrote: Translation: I doubt Phagga scumminess, read = null to leaning townI see what Sloosh is saying about Phagga, and I agree on some level that his entrance to the thread has been weak, and relatively quiet so far. There are some things that make me doubt his scumminess, however, so what I need from him is some more meaningful contribution on things that aren't setup. That also goes for VE, who was here early spouting setup info, and then dropped off. On February 07 2013 02:34 yamato77 wrote: OK, that’s fine; giving out town tells early is dangerous so agreed. I'll make my case on Mocsta, then. I won't be giving out my town tells, however. On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote: Complete contradiction. The first post @ 02:00 says you doubt his scumminess.I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far. What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum. You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. @ 03:42 you now say, some things are mafia oriented. In the same post you back pedal and say you still doubt it. Which is it, town or scum? You’re doing your best to stay in the middle and not commit. The contradictions are clear. You top off this post, by claiming Sl00sh is making association cases, which is clearly not happening (others already called you out on this) On February 07 2013 03:54 yamato77 wrote: I already have my vote on him. I understand what you're saying, though I don't think this is anything like my attack on you in Normal 4. This is an example of alignment: null post (Yamato). So what if your attack is nothing like Normal 4. Each game is different. That statement does not make you town in any way, shape or form. On February 07 2013 04:36 yamato77 wrote: Furthermore, note that if you don't think anyone could get a read on him at this point, I haven't exactly given my certain read on him either. My references to him have been that I think he's overall scummy, but there are things that make me doubt it, and that I want MORE from him to get a better read. I think this was just a misunderstanding. You thought I had a town read I didn't. Fair enough. Note “He’s” refers to phagga and is overall scummy. Noted 2hrs prior the below: On February 07 2013 01:59 yamato77 wrote: Phagga …There are some things that make me doubt his scumminess This does not read as the above: I think he is scummy, but some things make me doubt it. Why the change within 2hrs 30? Perhaps the read of Phagga below will expound on the change in read. On February 07 2013 04:46 yamato77 wrote: While this is, indeed, similar language to Mocsta and my mafia tell on him, the fact that he points out things about Mocsta in general so far makes me think him more town. Why would one mafia player pick at his mate this early in the game? It's a weak tell, like I've said, but it is one nonetheless. This is indeed weak, at least you admit it. How about this: Why would one town player pick at another town player early this game? How about this: Why would a mafia player pick at a town player early this game? Lazy heuristics again, you treat one example to suit your agenda, and do not consider any other options. On February 07 2013 04:46 yamato77 wrote: He reached the same conclusion I did about Prplhz, something I find encouraging for his town alignment. Perhaps this is a little foolhardy, to think someone town for thinking like me, but giving out a quick town read like that is also a towntell to me in general. Check this out (before Phagga posted liking Prplhz) On February 06 2013 23:29 Mocsta wrote: Hi Palomar. Can u please expand on why? I recognise both alignmnets can break up fights. But I thought the way prplhz went about it was fairly constructive. I.e. I didn't get a scum vibe from it. So why is when Phagga does it, you get a town read. When I do the same thing, its not. Your point is moot; and is part of the contradictions Sl00sh noted about you. On February 07 2013 04:46 yamato77 wrote: He calls out Palmar, and gives an accurate analysis of what he's done so far. While I know Palmar can, and will, do this as either mafia or town, the fact that he bothers to notice and point it out is somewhat encouraging. Again, I could be wrong about this as people agreeing with my first impressions aren't always town, but it's enough for me to doubt him being mafia, which is what I've said about him so far. Happy now? Do I need to point out the above post? I am asking Palmar to dictate why he made that choice. I take the same action as Phagga (and before him), yet he is town, I am not. ============================== TL;DR Your scum cases are full of lazy heuristics. Your town tells are full of double standards. You points lack conviction, and cant even be read as confirmation biased. Town has no reason to be sitting on the fence his openly; especially after receiving pressure. Incorporating all these points is clear scum motive to me. ##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 07 2013 10:58 yamato77 wrote: So your scumreads are three of the four people who think you might be mafia? Why do people think you're town again? Who do i think might be mafia. See the post above this one. *hint* ##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
First of all, I want to say that my random lynch was really random. I had decided to use the number of posts of the next person posting after me to derive a number giving me my random lynch. There was no way for me to control who was going to post after me and the number indicated Oats. I thought it could be an interesting choice for a random lynch because he was active and I hoped to have some controversy around this lynch but it turned out to be a bad pick. Why ? Because Oats looks town enough so I cannot bait any scum on my random lynch (that was actually my purpose). The major point I have for him is this post. On February 06 2013 23:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Djo, what is up with you and all your crazy 'plays'. Cant you play like everyone else? :D Every game, you have to speculate on something, if not setup speculation, then random lynching. LOL Seriously, if Oats was scum, he could very easily attack me and throwing dirt at me for this random lynch and not answering his questions, also I think he could feel insecure because of he random lynch possibility but I find that this post shows that he is very carefree about this issue and I don't see scum Oats writing this post at all in this situation. I decided to keep going with my idea and pretended to have reasons to lynch Oats and went to bed without doing anything more. I knew I was going to get some pressure for it and I was curious to see who was going to attack me and how. I'm ready to play for real now. Regarding Palmar Palmar as town as a great potential, especially on day 1. I don't see where he is going so far with his vote on prplhz and his plan and not explaining it at all. There is no night kill in this game so he should have nothing to fear if he is town. So I think he is scum avoiding to contribute. And for people who are going to say to me, "we don't lynch Palmar day 1", I think it is a stupid rule. Then, there is no way to pressure him, and he can disrupt a town like day 1 in LVIII and he can get away with anything as scum like I suspect him to do it here. ##vote Palmar Regarding Mocsta I'm also very suspicious of Mocsta. I didn't expect him at all to decline my invitation to join my random lynch on Oats because I was expecting him to have a scum read on Oats. Let's look at these quotes here (they are from before my invitation and him giving a town read on Oats). On February 06 2013 16:49 Mocsta wrote: Back to the one liner posts. You know in Mafia LIX, I kept saying in the Obs QT when you do it, its scummy as fuck. No one believed me.. except the flip. As for your question. I dont propose how anyone else does that besides myself. I have already stated what actions I will be taking. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=10#198 On February 06 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote: You realise that your post structure is mimicking your play from Mafia LIX right? (You were scum) Agreed, the things I am writing about are not revelations. Is this game that solved for you, that anytime someone writes something it has to be 100% original and never heard of before? Is that your criteria of good town play? If you want me to expound on what constitutes solid town play. It is to avoid the copying your play. And I will comment on this for one last time. The game is not as simple as "lynch the scummiest player"; otherwise scummy looking town like you would be insta-voted off. This game requires more reason and effort put into cases to identify motives behind actions. If you cant see that, you may as well quit and let someone who wants to take this game seriously replace you. I really thought that Mocsta had a scum read on Oats from these posts (and other) but then On February 06 2013 20:30 Mocsta wrote: (1) I have a leaning town read on Oats. As scum, Oats has a tendency to puff out his chest in front of mice; and whimper in a corner in front of a lion. To him I am not a lion, but his one-track mindness on him being right, is in my opinion a confidence obtained by being town. *snip* WTF ? I was honestly very surprised. And here is one more post from Mocsta after this one. On February 06 2013 20:44 Mocsta wrote: Yeah, i dont understand your point, as you are mixing two completely different issues. I am going to make one final post regarding matters, if you reply, good for you, I am not going to bother. (1) Me asking you to leave was a serious request, that I did not ever expect you to take seriously. I still think your treating this game as if its a newbie; and not giving it the respect it deserves. I am going going to insult you on why I think that is the case, only you know the real answer. (2) My post, referencing your quotes, was indeed a joke as i specified. You have already called me scum several times, for doing lesser things than your joke post to VE. I wanted to return to you the favour; you obviously can only dish it out, and not receive. So to answer your question; i dont think your "rage post" was scummy; I have already given my initial read on you (obviously subject to change as the game progresses). So yes, i deny the statement. ======= Done with you on these topics, Oats. Seriously, what is the need to antagonize your town reads with this force ? I think Mocsta was painting Oats as scum and didn't want to take the responsibility to led the lynch. Maybe he saw an opportunity when I've pushed my random lynch and declined my invitation. I think he is deliberately antagonizing Oats to shit up the thread and make the game unreadable. So, yeah, I don't like Palmar and Mocsta so far. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On February 07 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote: @Oats my biggest scum read atm is Djo as i said so far. However as the day goes on ill be willing to consolidate if no one wants to lynch djo I also think JX has been useless so far and wouldn't mind lynching him. @ jay I didn't disappear, I was just sleeping  Tell me what do you think of my latest post. Also don't you think that Palmar has also been useless so far ? Why don't you include him on your "to do lynch list" ? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Thank you yamato. The clear progression of your thinking process indicates to me that this is indeed a misunderstanding (based on how you treat town / mafia tells). At the time of my post I chose to talk about phagga to: - Get a better read of phagga - Get a read on prplhz - Do something more productive than focus on the messy Mocsta - Oats feud You could say I wanted to pressure him, for I found some blips on the radar. They weren't that big, but they were what I had at the time. If it helps you understand my thinking process, yamato & phagga scum => yamato soft defends ally phagga yamato scum phagga town => yamato is not taking hard stances As you can see in these two scenarios, your alignment isn't wholly dependent on phagga's. I needed to know your "town" tells, because mafia can dish out shallow reads and there's no way to know what they mean unless you call them out on it and make them provide the reasoning behind it. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 07 2013 11:08 Djodref wrote: Regarding Mocsta I'm also very suspicious of Mocsta. I didn't expect him at all to decline my invitation to join my random lynch on Oats because I was expecting him to have a scum read on Oats. Let's look at these quotes here (they are from before my invitation and him giving a town read on Oats). I really thought that Mocsta had a scum read on Oats from these posts (and other) but then WTF ? I was honestly very surprised. And here is one more post from Mocsta after this one. Seriously, what is the need to antagonize your town reads with this force ? I think Mocsta was painting Oats as scum and didn't want to take the responsibility to led the lynch. Maybe he saw an opportunity when I've pushed my random lynch and declined my invitation. I think he is deliberately antagonizing Oats to shit up the thread and make the game unreadable. So, yeah, I don't like Palmar and Mocsta so far. This post made me laugh out loud. The rational is as weak as Yamato. You expected me to join you on a non-committal opportunity to lynch Oats? Is it not scum who would grasp at this opportunity? That you want to interpret everything this way is disconcerting. You point out posts where Im saying Oats play is indicative of his scum meta; and so what? It is indicative . what I said is a fact/statement. Im not calling him scum, I was responding to his pressure on me. Rather, it was Oats who was calling me scum. Do i actually need to reference the quotes? The game is only 10 pages long, its an easy read to find out. Why dont you read through LIX and show me how Oats post structure as scum is NOT mimicking his structure this game Djodref. I dont even get your post on me being antagonistic? Im trying to walk away from everything. If you think I am the one leading this antagonistic exchange If you think the actions of one the two only present participants at the start of the game are top two scummy; I think you need to re-read the thread Djo. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 07 2013 11:17 yamato77 wrote: Djo, what do you make of Mocsta's case on me up there? I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff. Like what? are you suggesting the heuristics are NOT lazy? Are you suggesting that you have not grasped at straws to make conclusions? Are you suggesting your town tells on Phagga still do not apply to me? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Oats, I've played more games but I never counted. I started with Newbie Mini III which gives you somewhat of an idea of when I started playing. If you are looking for meta, go for my older games because I've rolled scum / 3rd party for ... 3~5 games now? Additionally, be clear with your language. I don't mind you saying "I want to see more", but don't say "start contributing" as if I haven't done anything. Cause that's total b.s. Reading up on the newer posts concerning Djodref. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On February 07 2013 11:19 Mocsta wrote: This post made me laugh out loud. The rational is as weak as Yamato. You expected me to join you on a non-committal opportunity to lynch Oats? Is it not scum who would grasp at this opportunity? That you want to interpret everything this way is disconcerting. You point out posts where Im saying Oats play is indicative of his scum meta; and so what? It is indicative . what I said is a fact/statement. Im not calling him scum, I was responding to his pressure on me. Rather, it was Oats who was calling me scum. Do i actually need to reference the quotes? The game is only 10 pages long, its an easy read to find out. Why dont you read through LIX and show me how Oats post structure as scum is NOT mimicking his structure this game Djodref. I dont even get your post on me being antagonistic? Im trying to walk away from everything. If you think I am the one leading this antagonistic exchange If you think the actions of one the two only present participants at the start of the game are top two scummy; I think you need to re-read the thread Djo. Yes, I expected you to join my random lynch. I didn't understand why not at that time and I don't understand it more when I read the thread again. So I'm suspicious of you. What is the point of saying that he is mimicking his scum post structure in this game if you don't think he is scum then ? What is the point of keeping shitting up the thread with him (not saying that you are the only responsible for it) when you have pegged him as town ? Why not take a break and wait for other players to post ? Where did you see that I had Oats as scum ? | ||
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