|
On February 09 2013 17:38 yamato77 wrote:
We still have to pick someone who dies today, Sloosh. If we don't talk about it, how are we going to come to a good conclusion? It makes no sense to say we should just ignore the nominees.
Sure it can: you let me, Palmar and Mocsta scumhunt. Looking at someone's scumhunting is the best way to determine their alignment, and so by what we say you will get a better read on us. We get some effective scumhunting done and the lynch can be decided later on in the day. Unless you really think one of us three is scum, in which case sure, go ahead and push that, but if it is a choice of "who is the least towniest", then I'd say that conversation is short sighted and unhelpful for future cycles.
|
On February 09 2013 17:39 yamato77 wrote:
Also you seem to think Palmar is actually playing this game, which is obviously not the case.
Well if Palmar doesn't do anything today it's obvious he should get lynched, so my procedure is the most effective thing to do since we get scumhunting done as early as possible. Going to sleep now, I invite you do look over / discuss my case / prepare questions for me when I get back.
|
On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 15:19 slOosh wrote:
That said, we don't want to focus the discussion primarily on the candidates tomorrow. Because if three townies go up (probably the case), it is to scum's advantage to focus discussion on them.
1) Because it means attention drawn away from their selves.
2) Gives them ammunition to work off for future lynches.
In any case the discussion should also be driven and moderated and lead by the candidates. You know it's gonna be at least 2 townies, so by following their lead we will have good (town motivated) direction.
It's like you guys don't even read. The worst outcome of today is time wasted by focusing on the nomination candidates. Let me and Palmar take front wheel and scumhunt into the non-nomination pool, of which we would all agree are at least 3 scum. If we are both town, then our interaction should produce a strong scum lynch list. If one of us isn't, then our interaction should reveal whom to lynch today. Again: D1 information is critical. We can't let scum skate by today pretending to scumhunt by choosing the least towniest of three people, because it is oh so easy for scum to fabricate town reads (no cognitive dissonance and awkwardness of interacting with a teammate naturally). If I sound like I'm repeating myself, it's because some players aren't getting it, and it's letting scum hide. [phagga case edited out] Palmar I want you to comment your thoughts on VE. Also, a fleshed out read on one of Cheesecake, snarfs or prplhz.
On February 10 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
sry phone posting.... both candidates agree with me. sloosh made a case on phagga. Itsno if he agrees, its if he can back it up well. This lynch for me is predicated on who is going to make the most sense. sloosh and palmar seem to have a similar reads as i do. If palmar isnt going to justify substantially, i dont want him around. sloosh has proven moreso that hes A). town and B) cares and will analyze posts and behavior. currently hes more beneficial to towb. depends on palmars next promised post. Yeah okay, I missed that part about phagga. Then yeah, we're both in agreement. I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today.
Hey Palmar, I think we need to seriously discuss VE today, because I'm seeing some clear mafia agenda here, and little blips elsewhere.
On February 10 2013 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to do a full reread now and look forward to chatting with the nominees about tomorrow's lynch.
On February 10 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today.
Says he wants to chat with nominees about tomorrow's lynch. Disagrees about phagga, but wants to talk about it tomorrow.
Could you focus your attention on him when you can? He is one of the more slippery players and it would be great if we could consolidate / clarify our read on him.
|
On February 10 2013 06:11 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 17:39 slOosh wrote:
Missed his last post, but don't think it's worth addressing.
Just note that he didn't bother bring up most of those things during the actual day, and his final conclusion is "there is probably 1 scum in this group of three". Lots of questions but no real conclusions.
Going to sleep because it's 2:38am and I have to be up at 8am and seriously why am I doing this to myself ....
Next post will be around ... 1 or 2pm since that is when I'm free. If you have questions for me, consolidate them in a nice post so I can address each one clearly when I get back. I did not bring those things up because they only occured to me after I reread the thread/Filters in the 24 hour dawn phase. And my scum reads are djo, jay, yamato (which I actually forgot in this post after the line because I was in a hurry and didn't check my notes) and one of prplhz / Ve. My read on yamato is older and I will go through his filter now, also I will got through jays filter as he is currently more of a gut read (as written this morning).
Mhmm yea, could you please address my actual case rather than my "I'm going to sleep here's a final footnote" post?
|
Ok VE. Say something scummy and then pass it off as a joke, and then call me scummy whilst doing so. That's cool.
I've already stated my case. You said you have problems with it but have provided 0 reasoning, 0 evidence and 0 thought process on why. And then you expect me to extract all relevant information out from you, after stating that you wanted to talk with me.
You're full of it and I'm gonna talk it over with Palmar. Now in the meantime why don't you actually do what you say you would do and talk about why you disagree about phagga.
|
Oh yea, prplhz say something: Updated thoughts on phagga, VE and Snarfs please.
|
On February 10 2013 22:32 Mocsta wrote:
SlOosh, may I ask who you are planning to lead with on day3?
Not sure if I understand this question - if it is who do I lynch first, it's phagga, because it's the clearest and best chance flip.
I like Palmar's list as it has good overlaps with mine. After phagga, I'd probably start convincing people that VE is scum, then maybe prplhz.
A strong reason for this is that VE and prphlz are objectively experienced / good players and they are focusing on today's lynch and avoiding talking about anything else.
Think about it from a townie perspective. If you conclude that the nomination candidates are all town, then why would you bother spending your time and energies choosing which one to lynch? As if making the correct townie lynch will win the game for us?
No, if you conclude that all nomination candidates are town, you should be focusing on who you will lynch tomorrow. You should scumhunt. 4 out of 8, I repeat 4 out of 8 players are scum if there are three townies up for nomination. And you seriously spend time looking at the three townies? Total bull.
I've been saying this the whole time, and maybe it's more evident now as you've seen how D2 has played out, but there are clearly people who don't want to talk about anything outside the current nomination pool. What's more is that some of these people clearly think that the candidates are all town, so why would they bother waiting for the lynch before they start contributing? If someone thinks we are town, then they must have some degree of respect for Palmar's / my play, or in the very least desire to dialogue with another townie about their scumreads etc. Why wait for one of us to die? Why wait?
|
Really Snarfs? Not even a comment on phagga? Seeing as how at least three people are ahead in your lynch list, it must mean you disagree with my case. Why not?
In fact, why wouldn't anyone want to discuss tomorrow's nominations when all the candidates are still here?
Do you guys see why I have such a problem with VE???
|
My vote will be on Mocsta, by process of playing experience / strength.
I believe him town and really appreciate his efforts, but other than Palmar there is no one left in the playerlist that I have a strong town read on and someone who can help me focus town in getting right lynches.
That said I don't want this to be the cause for bad blood, and if you guys think I'm scum for it, I'm fine with being lynched too.
##Vote: Mocsta
|
LOL. Ok, dismiss everything I said by calling it a meta case. Anyone objectively reading the case could see that there is only 1 point in which I draw a meta analysis, which serves to strengthen a point that is already there.
- in this game phagga writes timidly, fluffily and without conclusions
- town phagga is capable of decent analysis, or at least confidence and clarity in his posts
It doesn't matter if phagga is having an off game, because that is not the distinction I make. He scummy this game. You could argue about the use of meta but it's at best moot - take out meta and my case still stands just as strong, and it's incredibly scummy to dismiss the entire thing by strawman argument.
I'm not drawing any associations from my phagga scum read. This is the exact same thing with yamato. Regardless of phagga's actual alignment, townies should act a certain way given what they have said. VE said he wants to talk to me about tomorrow's nominations. I presented my phagga case. VE did nothing at all in lieu of participating / contributing to the discussion, but all he did was say that he disagreed with the case (and didn't say why until I called him out on it).
What VE did is scummy independent of phagga's alignment.
|
Ok, I'll be out and won't be back until past deadline.
If I die, just look through my filter (it's nice and condensed 2 pages), and strongly consider what I said.
If I was a vig I'd shoot phagga / VE. That's how strong my read is. Then I'd look into prplhz.
I haven't looked as much at Snarfs / Cheesecake / yamato but I see where Palmar is coming from (I'm looking at how D1 JX mislynch started / gained traction etc). I'd agree that from this pool alone we can nab at least 3 scum.
|
Mr. Cheesecake I want to talk about VE sans your scum reads going after him.
What do you think about the points that I bring up, and his objective play this game?
|
Yamato, thoughts on my posts on VE?
|
Oats, stop being daft. I've already said what I wanted to say, stop correlating post count with contribution. What you said could be applied to nearly every person playing this game.
On February 11 2013 16:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
Snarfs why are you not scum?
Also, why is Prp not scum then Snarfs?
The first question is loaded and stupid. You tell me us why Snarfs is scum.
Second question is already answered.
On February 11 2013 16:24 Snarfs wrote:
Oats: No reason for town to attempt to discredit prplhz like he did, whether prplhz is town or scum doesn't matter, Oats deliberately attempted to mislead us with his quotes.
Anyways, I think we should all be consolidating on VE now. Anyone who disagrees should speak up. He hasn't done crap all game, and I've shown multiple instances where he has misinterpreted / twisted what I have said. Nigh no one has honestly attempted to engage in my discussion about him.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
|
On February 11 2013 15:18 slOosh wrote:
Mr. Cheesecake I want to talk about VE sans your scum reads going after him.
What do you think about the points that I bring up, and his objective play this game?
Bump.
I honestly think we are trying to decide between lynching multiple scum candidates, because the connections just don't make any sense unless there is some degree of bussing going on. For instance, I'm seeing a phagga-yamato bus for one. I still feel like VE is much more scummier than Snarfs, so I want to talk about him. Let's talk.
|
... You seriously ask me to bump when I have a 2 page filter? Really? You can't do this yourself?
On February 10 2013 06:37 slOosh wrote:Hey Palmar, I think we need to seriously discuss VE today, because I'm seeing some clear mafia agenda here, and little blips elsewhere. Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to do a full reread now and look forward to chatting with the nominees about tomorrow's lynch. Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today. Says he wants to chat with nominees about tomorrow's lynch. Disagrees about phagga, but wants to talk about it tomorrow. Could you focus your attention on him when you can? He is one of the more slippery players and it would be great if we could consolidate / clarify our read on him.
On February 10 2013 08:23 slOosh wrote:
Ok VE. Say something scummy and then pass it off as a joke, and then call me scummy whilst doing so. That's cool.
I've already stated my case. You said you have problems with it but have provided 0 reasoning, 0 evidence and 0 thought process on why. And then you expect me to extract all relevant information out from you, after stating that you wanted to talk with me.
You're full of it and I'm gonna talk it over with Palmar. Now in the meantime why don't you actually do what you say you would do and talk about why you disagree about phagga.
On February 11 2013 06:49 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 22:32 Mocsta wrote:
SlOosh, may I ask who you are planning to lead with on day3? Not sure if I understand this question - if it is who do I lynch first, it's phagga, because it's the clearest and best chance flip. I like Palmar's list as it has good overlaps with mine. After phagga, I'd probably start convincing people that VE is scum, then maybe prplhz. A strong reason for this is that VE and prphlz are objectively experienced / good players and they are focusing on today's lynch and avoiding talking about anything else. Think about it from a townie perspective. If you conclude that the nomination candidates are all town, then why would you bother spending your time and energies choosing which one to lynch? As if making the correct townie lynch will win the game for us? No, if you conclude that all nomination candidates are town, you should be focusing on who you will lynch tomorrow. You should scumhunt. 4 out of 8, I repeat 4 out of 8 players are scum if there are three townies up for nomination. And you seriously spend time looking at the three townies? Total bull. I've been saying this the whole time, and maybe it's more evident now as you've seen how D2 has played out, but there are clearly people who don't want to talk about anything outside the current nomination pool. What's more is that some of these people clearly think that the candidates are all town, so why would they bother waiting for the lynch before they start contributing? If someone thinks we are town, then they must have some degree of respect for Palmar's / my play, or in the very least desire to dialogue with another townie about their scumreads etc. Why wait for one of us to die? Why wait?
On February 11 2013 09:05 slOosh wrote:
LOL. Ok, dismiss everything I said by calling it a meta case. Anyone objectively reading the case could see that there is only 1 point in which I draw a meta analysis, which serves to strengthen a point that is already there.
- in this game phagga writes timidly, fluffily and without conclusions
- town phagga is capable of decent analysis, or at least confidence and clarity in his posts
It doesn't matter if phagga is having an off game, because that is not the distinction I make. He scummy this game. You could argue about the use of meta but it's at best moot - take out meta and my case still stands just as strong, and it's incredibly scummy to dismiss the entire thing by strawman argument.
I'm not drawing any associations from my phagga scum read. This is the exact same thing with yamato. Regardless of phagga's actual alignment, townies should act a certain way given what they have said. VE said he wants to talk to me about tomorrow's nominations. I presented my phagga case. VE did nothing at all in lieu of participating / contributing to the discussion, but all he did was say that he disagreed with the case (and didn't say why until I called him out on it).
What VE did is scummy independent of phagga's alignment.
|
Boohoo VE, if you care about it why don't you prove yourself, do something and show me why I should be lynching prplhz instead of you.
|
First quote is him saying "I want to talk to slOosh Palmar Mocsta about tomorrow's lynch (outside the nomination pool)". He does the exact opposite by saying he wants to focus on the nomination candidates, despite me talking about phagga.
Think about it from his perspective:
- "I want to talk to candidates about tomorrow's lynch"
- slOosh talks about phagga, who is a potential subject of tomorrow's lynch
- "I don't like phagga. I want to focus on today's candidates."
I'm not saying that he is a great player and not playing to my expectations of him. I'm saying that he is experienced enough to understand these things, i.e. he isn't someone you can dismiss as "oh he is a newbie, it's understandable he would make that mistake". Regardless, meta isn't my main point here.
VE isn't overly concerned about defending himself because there hasn't been an actual threat to lynch him yet. This isn't a town trait. For instance how many people defended themselves last cycle? Is the number 4? Nope. Scum don't bother defending themselves when there is no serious threat against them.
|
Oats, get off Jay. Seriously. Vote counts are extremely helpful and it's not like it's the only thing that Jay contributed.
Jay, I think we are just choosing which scum we want to lynch at this point. Many of the initial pool of suspects (including yamato) have ties with VE. By lynching VE it forces more content from the remaining scum as well as helps us get better reads of them if they happen to be town. That is why I prefer lynching VE and would appreciate if you join me. Yamato ain't going nowhere I assure you.
|
Understandable with the Snarfs relation, although I would heavily disagree that I am merely "nitpicking" on some mistake.
I think though we have to be careful with the alignment pairings of players. There are an unusually high number of scum, and it's not unreasonable that they would stage interactions with each other. Take each player objectively and use flips as supporting evidence. Given that none of these players have flipped, I think less credence should be given to alignment ties and more to standalone analysis of that player.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
