EPT/in
Is the bulletproof SK notified of being shot?
Are you willing to reveal your modifications in detail? You may recall the explosive setup speculation from Mario Mini, I'm trying to reduce the longevity of that potential discussion.
Dessert Mini Mafia
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
/in Is the bulletproof SK notified of being shot? Are you willing to reveal your modifications in detail? You may recall the explosive setup speculation from Mario Mini, I'm trying to reduce the longevity of that potential discussion. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 13 2013 08:54 supersoft wrote: ... nonono that doesnt sound well. I want you to say: "I am town" Don't lie to me. dude do that via PM. No pointless talk in this game. I am town. I will also be afk for the next couple hours while I attend a family function. I'll check in when I get home. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:00 grush57 wrote: Well atleast I'm getting attention this game. (From phone) Wrong answer grush ##vote: grush57 | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Jay explain the Random push please | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:22 Hapahauli wrote: Woah woah woah waoh. @ Hopeless I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think Grush is scum. You said he "didn't make the correct answer," but exactly what type of answer would you expect from a "town" Grush in that situation? Especially to a random early-game accusation of all things? Telling you would be like locking the key inside the padlock. I find grush to be ungrushlike and I think its scummy. Kinda sucks that thrawn finds out issue with that, but I'll be putting an explanation together when I'm back at a computer. I could also be talking out of my ass because I snapped at something from memory, but again I'll explain at the latest in 14ish hours depending on how tired i am when i get home. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:29 grush57 wrote: Okay, I am scum because I am useful, or I am scum because of meta. But the only time I was scum was when I lurked. ? And Jay put in his post so we have something to talk about. Hopeless is scum yo. ##Vote: Hopeless1der First, I'm no longer convinced of my scumread, but here's my explanation for my reasoning. That thing I recalled from memory was austinmcc's breakdown of town-grush vs scum-grush in PTP3 (spoilered for length): + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote: A Tale of Two Grushes Grush - LV Day 1 involves a mayor/pardoner vote. Grush is pretty active during that day. Some one liners, some longer posts, but actual thoughts. See? Look at that. Like a page of filter off the bat, with some real stances. Grush open being poked at by Toad, over a potential scumslip: Look at this conversation with Toad. Toad initially points out an inconsistency in the number of scum, says Grush might be scum because he counted only 5 scum in a game that had 6 (indicating he might have 5 buddies). Grush gives actual responses, discusses it just being a typo. Doesn't just discuss himself either, but notes the lurkers, has counted posts, and says where he thinks mafia might be hiding. Grush will occasionally call some folks scummy - + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 11:19 grush57 wrote: I nominate Kenpachi for the lynch. He is playing his scum meta. Last game, he was inactive and he turned out to be scum. He's putting in less effort than Sinesis who got lynched. All of his posts are one liner's except for one which he makes a list, which is something a scum usually does(I learned that from a real vet.) I ACCUSE YOU, KENPIKACHU! On May 30 2012 11:48 grush57 wrote: I'm being mean Kenpachi, you're a pretty cool dude, I'm sorry :"(. There have been rumors, starting in LIV. That I have, mystical powers. They rarely unleash. This, is a special case. (LOL YEAH I JUST MADE A LIST WHEN I SAID MAKING LISTS ARE SCUMMY DEAL WITH IT) You would except him to pick 1-2 vets 2-3 normals and 2-3 noobs right 1.(The smart, cunning godfather) Mr.Wiggles(1 vet down) He posts long, too long to read. He knows better than to lynch someone with no information. I also heard he is pretty good at mafia. If you look at his posts, only a page and there is a lot of indecisiveness in his posts. 2.(The undeserving vet)Mattchew(MAKE IT 1.5) His trap, was actually a trap to get a townie to question him and to get an easy peasy day2 town lynch. He was also lurking and he is a vet common bro you are better. 3.(The bigshot normal)StrongandBig(Pewpew 1)Im running for mayor, jk, no seriously. Et, no gf Mr.Wiggles.Buss my buddy gambit. 4.(Deh studious lurker)Gambitxc32(1(forduhnubs)) I can imagine the qt now(YO GAMBIT MY MAN U GONNA LURK CUZ ALL DEEZ NUBZ ARE LURKING LOL, THO WHEN THEY FIGURE THAT ME, WIGGZ, IS GF U GOTTA VOTE ET SO WE DON'T LOOK CONNECTED)## Studious VOTE: agree. Oh and yeah he is a lurker and was scared of wbg getting on his case and went for him. He obviously is paying attention to game responding to jaj(?) post asking him about stuff or w/e lol. 5.(idk actually, lets say normal)Zealos(yeah were about quick to lynch someone who is town(LOL THEY DONT KNWO THAT I KNOW WHO IS TOWN) aww yeah towncred(like they were actually gonna lynch toad lol such easy cred town fools) Better lurk it up you know, be scummy and put no effort LOL wtf zealos. 6.papapanda or... Manason. When Kenpachi(♥) mentioned him I was like, holy shit these town nubs let another scum hide, brbbbb gotta check dem filter and this took a long time to post and I saw that you put starsenses. Now, I think you might say that or w\e because u think I'll mislead them, but no i am a wizard. Basically, he was doing a bunch of a lil commenting on people not on my starsense list saying bs, less than a page of filter, however he commented on my starsenses so I love him and probly not mafia. Manason- MMK CHECKED HIS FILTER 3RD PAGE-DONT LYNCH GRUSH POLICY LYNCHES ARE BAD. Okay, someone in your QT played LIV and knew how I screwed up town and told everyone to not lynch me so I'd screw up the game. All the people who wanted me dead early game was town(Sinesis and Bh) Noob mistake of saying(ooh protect my gf Mr. Wiggles) more 1 liners blah blah blah too long, OMG YOU GUYS ARE ON MY BUDDY LETS BRING UP KITAMAN27. No, he made the same mistake as me in LIV, randomly voted someone. My starsense powers sais he is town. Okay so I did all this in TL (LOL I KNOW) and the thread has probably progressed alot as this took like 20-30 mins to write. Please note I am unsure about the 6th mafia. Oh, and a lot of the bad grammar was on purpose. But he won't really back those accusations up - + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 12:04 grush57 wrote: Sigh majuju, you were lurking too and now that I called out your buddy you finally unlurked. LOL SERIOUSLY TOWN NUBS STAR TPOSTING asdaSDFASDFA. Okay, I will bring up the posts. Actually just read them too much work lol. On June 02 2012 04:33 grush57 wrote: Why don't you ask the scum that question? But really, its obvious who is town and who is scummy on that list of who voted. On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a little over 4 pages, and he died N2. Grush - LVI Grush's D1 - Here! Game starts somewhere in the middle. Way less contribution. When he does post, it's agreeing with someone, or little one liners, followed by just a vote on a wagon target. When Grush gets poked, he responds with one-liners - + Show Spoiler + Plenty of others but that's enough Scumgrush makes "cases," but they're just kind of weak accusations, or nonsense - + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 03:46 grush57 wrote: Grush was sitting in the tent. Vivax was walking in with a angry crowd behind him ridiculing him about his bad performance. His excuses were very bad, said the crowd, and that HIS LOGIC FAILS. Grush agreed. ##Vote: Vivax On July 07 2012 07:35 grush57 wrote: T_T definitely between Twelve and BKE though. Kurumi's post does really point out the flaws of BKE, and when pressure came off he was all beepin up the beep, ya know. BUT u may b like, GURSHDEVICE U DON'T HELP AT ALL. True, homeieieieieieieiieieeieieieieieiei, but it doesn't change the fact. aLZo, 11, __, 13 seems like a noobie townie. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ##Vote:BKE On July 13 2012 01:38 grush57 wrote: I want to lynch Majuju. all dat lurking and then when called out he is getting all freaky(in the wrong way mmkay) ##Vote: MajuGarzett On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a not quite 4 full pages of filter. Lived until endgame, which was the end of D4. So, based only on two games and nothing else, what patterns do we see in Grush's play?
PokeGrush PokeGrush's filter is a decent bit over 4 pages, after 3 full cycles (And he spent part of it banned) He starts off responding to questions - + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2012 09:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote: How have you done that? Also, in keeping with the spirit of the thread, spam spam spam On August 20 2012 09:02 grush57 wrote: See look at wiggles, he asks me a legit question. Plus, he continues my tradition  To answer the question, breadcrumb, and meta. Plus I'm town. Now, we must find scum. I must stop posting so scum can start posting and then we catch them. Cool trick. On August 22 2012 11:39 grush57 wrote: Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched. On August 24 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote: Well, half his posts are before the game, and he just is basically lurking and not helping. In scum teams in my experience, you have 2-3 active in the thread, and 1-2 basically lurking Toad and chezinu died, I feel like there is only one major player in the thread that is scum atm. Also dirk may be scum aswell, before his posts were useless and now he just lurks. He gives some reads, with...some reasoning - + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at. So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) He engages in minor discussion - + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 11:03 grush57 wrote: lol. no. You're assuming he's playing differently because he got butthurt. I'm saying that your scum. Different things On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote: Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!! You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1 However when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan. Which is me questioning VE being town right now. But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi. **I doctored this quote because it was split into two posts** I could keep pulling more stuff from this game, but now I want to do something else. So instead, you should read this. You should come to your own conclusions. But if you think Grush is scum, you need some decent reasoning. Because it looks to me like he's playing much more like he did in LV than in LVI. It looks to me like there are some actual helpful posts buried in the trolling. D2 I didn't think hopeless1der was scum, but I didn't fight it hard enough, had just entered the game. D3 I didn't think VE was scum, and I should have swapped my vote from Wiggles to misder in order to try and get a switch at the end. D4 I don't think Grush is scum, and it's time to actually stand up and fight his lynch, early. I do not want scum having control of this one. The jist of what was relevant to me was that scum-grush is rather flippant when accused, just like his response to Thrawn this game. In addition, grush' towncrumb is 100% accurate afaik, so I was kind of baiting for that as well. He's completely self-aware of this fact, but its probably no longer useful because I'm using it to explicitly coerce him now. Since I reinforced my scumread without actually doing anything, he OMGUSed me with the reasoning that I didn't have a legitimate reason for voting him (as quoted above). Grush' activity has little to no bearing on his scumminess to me because in my experience he trolls regardless of alignment. His relative 'usefulness' is different and worth noting but is not alignment indicative. His questions and concern for the game (which is still apparent in troll-mode) are what distinguishes grush from his town/scum selves. What I 'expected' from town-grush was closer to his response to me. His response to Thrawn was dismissive and was really the only reason I had to go after him in the first place. When I accused him, he wanted to know why I thought he was scum, seemed to want to discuss it. He's also spent time reading the thread, or at least it seems that way from his filter. ##Unvote: grush57 | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Your super-awesome-mega-MrZ scumslip was him calling jay town so early? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 13 2013 12:40 kushm4sta wrote: dumb question @thrawn I didn't even read his filter and come to that conclusion. I just remember it from reading through the thread. I will find examples tho inc. Hey kush, do this (the bolded) please. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:29 thrawn2112 wrote: hopeless can you get to talking about scumreads soon? yes sir, reading thread atm. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Kush for being flipfloppy as all hell regarding MrZ: + Show Spoiler + On January 13 2013 12:45 kushm4sta wrote: oh shit brb must go on ss' mission. Looking for scumslip On January 13 2013 12:54 kushm4sta wrote: dont see the scumslip at all read his filter twice lol. One day I will win your approval somehow though because I think your name is so awesome. He does look hella scum tho. Defending EVERYONE for no reason. ##vote mrzentor Didn't find scumslip, but wait, still scum. Also, "EVERYONE" On January 13 2013 12:59 kushm4sta wrote: yeah but you defended him from so many different angles that it seemed like separate people. 1 person = EVERYONE!!!! (Note, still scum) On January 13 2013 14:00 kushm4sta wrote: i read his filter twice i thought it was scummy. THEN everyone who knows his meta says he isn't scummy. he doesn't respond scummily. i dont think he's scummy is that explained enough to you? also your name is pronounced shatalos? sorry but this is relevant to me because I like to say it in my head. I guess I can sheep the thread to justify my votes. On January 13 2013 14:01 kushm4sta wrote: second person you defended without cause to. back on my scum list. ATM i woudl lynch. And also his neglecting to followup about Hapa being fallacious, which was promised here: On January 13 2013 12:40 kushm4sta wrote: dumb question @thrawn I didn't even read his filter and come to that conclusion. I just remember it from reading through the thread. I will find examples tho inc. Super has been insanely caught up in pushing MrZentor for his "scumslip", and is now resorting to calling him stupid or bad in order to justify his decision to ignore him. On January 14 2013 01:07 supersoft wrote: It's not going to get us anywhere Zentor. You just stupidly defend yourself. I expected a certain answer and I wanted to follow that up with another line of thoughts, but i see that i cannot work with you. Consequently, I just end our conversation. His response to wbg's question, specifically his talking about Prom being a good catch: On January 13 2013 21:00 supersoft wrote: ahm, agree on Zentor obviously disagree on xatalos right now, slooshs case doesn't convince me. Many pointless questions were asked in this thread. He randomly understands my smilie-pressuring... got to think about him a little. Hopeless vote on grush is terrible, + Show Spoiler + i read grush as town, grushs questions make sense, overall posting look okay, i don't see any signs of scummyness. Prom is a nice catch, i agree on him. His larger post + Show Spoiler + On January 13 2013 20:09 Promethelax wrote: Lol at bugs, I'm scum because I was at work when the game started. Is there some unspoken rule about us not asking grush to give us his town breadcrumb? Because that is all I want from him right now. For those of you who haven't played with Kush assume he is similar to chezinu but without either the class or the ability to find scum. He is a troll who will troll all game long but it Isn't too hard to get a read on. I would like to hear both Hapa and thrawn's opinions of Kush. They know how to read him, as do I. Super, are you town? pointless, i already answered this question in my very first post - he didnt read Zentor, can I expect you to be useful This game or should I put you into the troll column? pointless Jay, what's your read of zentor? Slopsh, opinions on anyone who doesn't have a million point scrabble name. looks extremely scummy, pointless questioning, didn't read the thread properly ...Bugs literally put Prom's name into a list with no supporting arguments and a very vague question. Right now bugs filter is 3 posts. SS's response doesn't feel natural to me. Go back and look at the timing. BUGS' List Prom's first post since the game started SS finding a "good catch" Those posts happened in that order. SS should not have been able to retroactively apply Prom's post to wbg's "scum"read. This post: On January 13 2013 21:25 supersoft wrote: Is also drastically out of place because he's half buddying sloosh while calling him scum and also, Sloosh has never exhibited suspicion towards Zentor, showing SS is not reading the thread. He's kind of trolling I guess? Also, calling Hapa terrible for no reason whatsoever.hapahauli is terrible but he thinks he's great, sloosh is scum. ##vote sloosh sloosh, are you voting zentor with me, if i move my vote away from you? For reference, Sloosh's stance on Zentor: On January 13 2013 15:35 slOosh wrote: super pulled some total bs with his second entry, which happened to coincide when you started your pressure on Xatalos. It's really dangerous to make such connections but the case stands well enough alone that it's something worth considering. ruuch is totally new, and all he has to do is chime in with his most current thoughts now and again and we will all get along. Going after him right now makes no sense to me. I wrote down somewhere hopeless was just echoing something someone else already said, and put down "acting useless". I like grush. Mr Zentor is ok too. And by that I mean, unless someone shows me Xatalos and super is probably not scum, I won't be looking into these guys. On January 13 2013 09:28 supersoft wrote: Okay announcement: Don't talk about pointless SHIT!!! scum loves to talk about pointless stuff. Do when the game is over. Right now we're playing the game and we're not in some kind of off-topic thread! FOCUS!!! Don't let this game end in a mess like the Kurumi game! This post isn't that scummy on the surface, but combined with his smilie bs discussions, seems like he's vying for free townie-points by looking like he's directing the thread. Out of the two, I feel stronger about SS. ##Vote: supersoft | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 14 2013 03:53 kushm4sta wrote: wbg that sounds like d1 of every town game i play. i sheep a lot and throw my vote around a lot. I need to reread or look at filters before I can have anything useful to say honestly. Hapa is fallacious. Go. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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@kush, I wasn't asking you to call hapa scum, I was asking you to see whether or not you were just blowing smoke. You say you saw fallacious arguments. Please elaborate. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On January 13 2013 21:00 supersoft wrote: ahm, agree on Zentor obviously disagree on xatalos right now, slooshs case doesn't convince me. Many pointless questions were asked in this thread. He randomly understands my smilie-pressuring... got to think about him a little. Hopeless vote on grush is terrible, + Show Spoiler + i read grush as town, grushs questions make sense, overall posting look okay, i don't see any signs of scummyness. Prom is a nice catch, i agree on him. His larger post + Show Spoiler + On January 13 2013 20:09 Promethelax wrote: Lol at bugs, I'm scum because I was at work when the game started. Is there some unspoken rule about us not asking grush to give us his town breadcrumb? Because that is all I want from him right now. For those of you who haven't played with Kush assume he is similar to chezinu but without either the class or the ability to find scum. He is a troll who will troll all game long but it Isn't too hard to get a read on. I would like to hear both Hapa and thrawn's opinions of Kush. They know how to read him, as do I. Super, are you town? pointless, i already answered this question in my very first post - he didnt read Zentor, can I expect you to be useful This game or should I put you into the troll column? pointless Jay, what's your read of zentor? Slopsh, opinions on anyone who doesn't have a million point scrabble name. looks extremely scummy, pointless questioning, didn't read the thread properly | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 14 2013 17:12 Promethelax wrote: well in that case I am going to bed. I hope some of you will be able to take your heads out of your asses and look at my case on ScumMonkey. Hopeless, when you get back I'd like you to comment on the use of your new policy and if you think it should be applied and why or why not. I'd like comments from everyone by tomorrow on lynching lazer vs lynching Xat. I'd prefer LM (obviously). goodluck town! I'll be in sporadically tomorrow. Thrawn's toeing the line, but hasn't actually tried to push for your lynch yet, so no, not policy worthy. I also agree with your sentiment that Super isn't getting lynched. ##Unvote: supersoft Hey grush!! Remember this? On January 13 2013 10:29 grush57 wrote: Okay, I am scum because I am useful, or I am scum because of meta. But the only time I was scum was when I lurked. ? And Jay put in his post so we have something to talk about. Hopeless is scum yo. ##Vote: Hopeless1der Okay good, now do something about that lurking please. I'm voting Lazermonkey until he justifies why jay is scummy (or finds a proper scumread), because quite frankly he hasn't. He's shown that Jay is playing different than that other time he was town but hasn't shown why he's scum. OMGUS isn't a scumtell if WBG is to be believed, but Lazer puts that on display like its the nail in the coffin. He's scattered his vote and it looks like he's setting up to sheep again when the time comes to consolidate. ##Vote: Lazermonkey | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 00:29 supersoft wrote: "OMGUS isn't a scumtell if WBG is to be believed" do you ever think for yourself? Evidently no. Please teach me master! | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 00:32 supersoft wrote: bäh. really. okay. Do you personally think and OMGUS is a scumtell or not. I think things like OMGUS or SCUMSLIP are meaningless banter that clutter the thread. I also think that bugs has both stated his opinion on OMGUS in-thread and that he has no reason to lie about that opinion as scum or as town. This, to me, demonstrates that Lazer either hasn't read the thread very well, he thinks it is a scumtell, or he himself is scum and is using it as a supporting argument. Based on the rest of his (weak) case, I believe Lazer is scum. My apologies for referencing the game itself as the development of my reasoning. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 15 2013 00:41 supersoft wrote: different question though: You and lazer both voted me. You think i am scum with him? kush buddied up with me. You think scum would do that? Not sure where I stand on you. I'm not dealing with associative crap until I see flips. My suspicions on kush had little to do with you, neither does my read on Lazer. I've seen a day 1 bus that lasted multiple cycles, so what scum may or may not do is a waste of time right now. I think Lazer is scummier than you. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 01:16 thrawn2112 wrote: do you? Yes, I do your reason for not voting for super was the same as prom's, which was that he's not going to get lynched. Yes, in addition to this point (where I still feel super is scummy), I find that Lazer is more scummy. did the scum qt tell you to switch off of super? I do not have access to the scum qt. Can you explain your comment about thrawn toeing the line? Idk what policy you're referring to Attempting to push a lynch on the merits of "stupid" or "bad" On January 15 2013 01:26 Lazermonkey wrote: Holy FUCK, the more I look at the case, the more I realizehow bad of a case that is, Hopeless. Can YOU explain how the points in your case even makes me scum? Your case is like, ''well Lazermonkey is a monkey and monkeys like bananas, thus Lazermonkey is scum. ''. It does not make any sense what so ever. The fact that SS is sheeping it is blowing my mind in pieces. You are scum for making a shitty case and throwing your vote on an outlier. Even now, you are not supporting your scum read, you are attacking the case against you. Again, this is scummy behavior. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 02:20 slOosh wrote: Hopeless can you give me your thoughts on Prom's play this game? He has asked a lot of questions and generally follows them up. They don't appear to be useless and he seems to have read British Empire, which he didn't play in. He's going out of his way to interact with people, like asking you (sloosh) about xat's play in Paranoia, which again he didn't play in or me about my "policy", as discussed in an obs qt. In short, he's active and paying attention, pursuing information from outside of this game where possible. His "swapping" his stance on Xata was deliberate and pre-meditated to me, as evidenced by his post here: On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote: 'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it. In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later. Further to the above, I don't recall him ever taking a proper stance on Xatalos until this post. His unvote of SS is sketchy, especially what Hapa pointed out, with the unvote reasons having nothing to do with the initial voting reasons. His case against Lazer, and followup to that are much stronger than his push against SS, which makes me wonder if his heart was ever in pushing SS to begin with. I'm leaning town on Prom. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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@Lazer, I don't think your case on jay shows how what he's done is scummy. Show me. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 03:01 Lazermonkey wrote: You don't think that being non-commital, not giving out a single scum read with the exacption of an OMGUS case is alignment indiactive? He is wish-washy with his comments about several players and avoids to take a clear stance. And what about my two other points Hopeless, you dodged them... Who's scummier, me or jay? | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 03:18 Lazermonkey wrote: Do you not agree with the reasons I gave for him to be scummy or do you not agree with given reasons to be scum indicative? I don't think your non-committal reasons are scum indicative of jay. If you can demonstrate otherwise, I'd love to see it. His filter being different than hero mini only means that his filter is different, not that it is scummy. OMGUS is not a scumtell to me. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote: Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game. Can you explain? Examples please. I disagree with your statement. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:27 slOosh wrote: Yo, the guy you are leaning town on is set to be lynched. What are you doing? Im poking Zentor for misrepresenting wbg's filter. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 15 2013 07:31 slOosh wrote: Yea ... because that's the most important thing before one of your town reads is gonna get lynched. If I can show him to be scummier than Prom, then yes, that would be rather useful. ZENTOR, HOP TO IT | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 15 2013 06:53 MrZentor wrote: In other news, why have you been hard defending Prom all game, WBG? Instant backtrack, I dont even... | ||
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Hopeless1der
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There, I've hard defended every other player in the game. Gratz | ||
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Hopeless1der
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##Unvote: Lazermonkey ##Vote: Ruuch | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 16 2013 12:56 slOosh wrote: I think lynching hopeless today is the correct play as four of us (Hapa slOosh WBG and iamp) have good scum reads on him. You are, all four of you, retarded. My response to the apathy for the lynch: no one seemed interested in talking to me, and I'm generally far more active when I'm about to die. Thrawn saw fit to shit on my Prom read with: On January 15 2013 02:51 thrawn2112 wrote: and neglected to respond when I asked him directly about my supersoft scumread. Clearly he doesn't (or at least didn't) care much for what I have to say. SlOosh, you asked me why I wasn't pushing my own read, but its not like I could have stopped you from voting Prom. The whole point of that exercise was to question my motives, not to see if I had anything new to contribute. Hapa is next to impossible to reason with, and when was the last time you saw grush respond to any form of logic? Attempting to get Lazer lynched when Prom was afk and super didn't give two shits (hell, he swapped onto a townread) wasn't remotely possible, and if you honestly believe I had a chance in hell, please tell me what you are smoking. Prior to Ruuch mucking up the thread, these were the votes on Prom: Slightly Modified Votecount Cakecount: Xatalos (1): jaybrundage Promethelax (6): slOosh, Hapahauli, thrawn2112, grush57, MrZentor, Xatalos Lazermonkey (3): Promethelax, Hopeless1der, supersoft MrZentor (1): wherebugsgo wherebugsgo (1): Lazermonkey Not Voting (1): Ruuch Currently, Promethelax is set to be lynched! ~1.75 hours left until the deadline. PM me or CC if I dun screwed up the count. Remember - you must vote! The Final Votecount: Xatalos (1): jaybrundage Promethelax (7): slOosh, thrawn2112, grush57, MrZentor, Xatalos, Ruuch, Supersoft Lazermonkey (1): Promethelax Ruuch (4): Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo, Hapahauli, Hopeless1der I'm more inclined to believe bugs and Ruuch(Lamp) are town, so right now my choices to vote are Lazer and SlOosh, and possibly Hapa for no other reason than his vote was in scummy places. sidenote, I find it funny that I'm everyone's scum buddy and now you're all forced to "bus" me. On January 15 2013 09:05 Lazermonkey wrote: Meh, told you so... In response to Prom's lynch. Yeah he told us, just like I did, right? Except I never tried to blame the thread or take credit for my read of Prom. ##Vote: Lazermonkey Going to bed in like 10 minutes. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 17 2013 00:29 iamperfection wrote: *-/-* @ Hopeless You said people had their votes in scummy places can you be more specific on the who and the why. Hapa especially had his vote in scummy places. Assuming of course that you are town, he swapped off of his scumread onto an unknown for policy like reasons. Super was the one who had to put his foot down and say fuck you all, we kill the guy we were going to kill. I don't think Ruuch was scum, so swapping off Prom (town) onto Ruuch (I think town) looks really scummy to me. Hapa fits that bill. People that voted for Prom are scummy(ier) than others because we know Prom was town. We know Prom and Super were initially on Lazer, as was I. This makes the probability that scum were on Prom's wagon much higher. Lazer's vote was off in a corner on wbg. He didn't really have a better place to put it I suppose, as he was the counter-wagon, but he stated a townread on Prom and did nothing to prevent his lynch other than laugh and then blame the thread. His reasons for voting bugs were poorly defined and his vote felt like a throw-away, simply because he had to vote. Bugs' vote was on Zentor, until Ruuch showed his face. Bugs didn't do much to stop the Prom lynch, other than trying to get Ruuch at the last minute. This move puts him under suspicion, same as Hapa, but based on the night conversations, I believe only 1 of SlOosh and wbg are scum. I'm not discounting the possibility that both sloosh and wbg are scum, but it seems far less likely, and I think sloosh is more suspicious (/sheep bugs). Jay afk'd so his vote was left on Xata. My reasons for continuing after Lazer are that I know 3 townies (and only 3 townies) were on him all of Day 1 (so was bugs for a short while). I consider it unlikely that scum ignored a wagon like that unless Lazer is scum. This is obviously in addition to my assertion that he failed to demonstrate why jay was scum in his case and subsequently took to attacking me/my case against him, instead of fleshing out his case like I asked (repeatedly). | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 17 2013 01:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Supposing you're town, hopeless: Would you be down to lynch slOosh? For the record I'd be willing to lynch into any of slOosh/LM/grush/Zentor, my priority being that order. Yes I would. I'm not willing to lynch grush though, I'm dumb enough to believe in his STARSENSES. | ||
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Why did Hapa vote for Ruuch? Question the second: Why did I vote for Ruuch? @Lamp: Do you find my read of you suspicious, based on the posting, and circumstances surrounding the replacement, of Ruuch? By which I mean, do you think it is conceivable that I would arrive at a townread of you based on the limited information available? | ||
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On January 17 2013 09:51 jaybrundage wrote: Ill answer these. I think both of you voting for Ruunch was stupid. It was a dumb wagon. He is a completely new at this game. Doesn't know what hes doing. His late vote was completely a null tell. He doesnt know whats scummy and whats townie. He has never had experience playing this game before. He probably felt a bit overwhelmed (hence why he later quit.) So my question to you is why did you vote Ruunch? Also Ziggler why did you decide to vote SlOosh over say WBG or LM or Hopeless? I asked the questions in that manner because my reasons were completely different than Hapa's. I was doing what little I could to save Prom, short of blowing up at the thread and calling everyone stupid, which seems to be the go-to response these days. Hapa on the other hand has been touting his scum-Prom read and all of the sudden feels its a good idea to go after Ruuch as a policy lynch. I won't deny it was a stupid wagon, but I felt it was a better to lose him than Prom. I didn't read Ruuch as scum, I read him as expendable, in comparison to Prom. Hapa trying to equate our votes as being equally scummy: + Show Spoiler + On January 17 2013 05:27 Hapahauli wrote: Yes I did. However that's only one game out of the multitude of his recent town games in which he played very aggressively. In addition, I can't rationalize his stance on iamp from a town perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=52#1022 Votes Ruuch, afks for the entire night cycle, comes back and says he thinks iamperfection is town for no reasoning, then proceeds to make arguments against me based on the "assumption" of iamp being town. Furthermore, he stated that he didn't understand my reasoning for voting Ruuch, which is incredibly scummy considering that he voted Ruuch himself. is a massive load of bull. I appreciate your efforts to put words in my mouth, like my "implied" super strong town read of Prom, while simultaneously disregarding Question the First. Furthermore, the "assume you're town" was specifically TO iamperfection because he asked me to explain myself. Are you going to jump down his throat for this post?: On January 16 2013 06:10 iamperfection wrote: Do you still mantain he is scum? If he was scum he would have had access to other players in order to coach him. If you look at his posts he is clearly lost and has no clue what he is doing. Ill have to go back to the vote swaping when I get home because I now know that people were jumping from town to town. Or does he get a free pass because he was speaking about himself? Anyways, it seems I need to look towards self-preservation ##Unvote: Lazermonkey ##Vote: SlOosh On January 17 2013 10:14 iamperfection wrote: so what was your reasoning for your town read on me hopeless? Primarily based on Ruuch's limited interactions with the thread. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 17 2013 10:29 slOosh wrote: You guys just gonna let hopeless skate by making a case on lazer and dropping it whenever he feels like it? He is gonna make it to lategame like that. Hopeless, in your own words, what about me is scummy? Or are you purely looking out for yourself and you don't care about my alignment? You're pressure on me when I was commenting on Zentor, and subsequently using it to paint me as scum is my primary motivator in calling you scum. I do not believe there was any sufficient action I could have taken to adequately steered Prom's lynch onto anyone else and you insisting I should have tried harder, when there are multiple players who fit that bill irks me. There's also the night interactions with wbg. I'm not dissecting that discussion. I think you look scummier than bugs and I think there is at least 1 scum between the two of you. That is enough for me at the moment. Ruuch afk's most of the day, shows up, drops a vote on Prom. Gives a meaningless post that is almost guaranteed to get him into trouble. We almost last-minute voteswitch him. He subsequently replaces out. I have a hard time believing that as scum, he would have both read the thread, allowing him to generate this post:+ Show Spoiler + On January 15 2013 08:52 Ruuch wrote: Alright, since I've been lurking for most of day 1 I thought I'd quickly chime in before the vote to shed some light on where I currently stand. (I'm on my phone/tablet/thingy so I'll have to keep this relatively concise, sorry) First things first; I do not currently have a strong opinion on who might be scum. In fact, from where I'm standing, it looks like most of you are so busy bickering amongst eachother in what I can only describe as a childish manner that I feel pretty much any one of you lot could be scum (hopefully that didn't come across as too judgmental or preachy, that was not my intent, honest!). Granted you could easily just chalk that down to my inexperience in the game. Now I know no one likes to listen to advice from a newbie but, in order to make my post remotely useful/constructive, hear me out. Scum like chaos and disorganization right? It's easy for them to hide in it and to further their own agenda. So try to keep your posts clear and to-the-point. Say what you have to say and don't engage in useless arguments. I guess that about covers it. Again, sorry if that came across as preachy or "holier-than-thou". ##Vote Promethelax and at the same time NOT have his team yelling at him OMG Y U SO LURKY? in the qt. I also WIFOM'd this post from you into you actually being town because I really wanted to know Ruuch's alignment when Prom flipped, with the potential that scum were just lolling all over the place: On January 16 2013 06:10 iamperfection wrote: Do you still mantain he is scum? If he was scum he would have had access to other players in order to coach him. If you look at his posts he is clearly lost and has no clue what he is doing. Ill have to go back to the vote swaping when I get home because I now know that people were jumping from town to town. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 17 2013 11:09 slOosh wrote: LOL, like you are busy doing anything else right now. Put your money where your mouth is. Name the actual players culpable, and why you complain that I call you out but have no problem not calling the other players out yourself. I'm not trying to get them lynched. The specific players are irrelevant, their existence is what matters here. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 17 2013 11:19 iamperfection wrote: i like hopeless less now and sloosh more sloosh is calling out bullshit from hopeless hopeless is doing nothing but throwing vague suspicion with no purpose ## unvote ##vote hopeless What was vague and why does it serve no purpose? | ||
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On January 17 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote: why would you ever not want to be clear with who you think is scum? i could see town reads but scum? Sloosh, LM, Hapa | ||
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On January 18 2013 07:41 iamperfection wrote: but he does take initiative in who's getting lynched. look at the end of day 1 in mario. Okay, lets play then. WIFOM this, with the knowledge that plurality lynch will kill me even if I swap back: ##Unvote: SlOosh ##Vote: Lazermonkey | ||
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On January 18 2013 07:46 iamperfection wrote: he's probably the sk but that is irrelevant for right now. k fine, but he still needs to die | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 18 2013 04:38 Hapahauli wrote: Aughh... got the flu and I feel like hell. Fun fun fun. I need to rest some, but I should be around from now until the deadline. Regarding Hopeless We still should be lynching him. What about his responses have convinced you that he's town? He's lurking, he's dropping reads with barely any justification, and he made a self-preservation vote 24-hours before the lynch deadline. Hell I can't see where he pulled his read on SloOsh from: That's everything in his filter that could be considered suspicion on slOosh. And none of it is suspicion. It's just name-dropping and/or defending himself from sloOsh's line of questioning. Regarding SloOsh We should not be lynching him over a guy that has displayed numerous inconsistencies that are incompatible with a town-mentality (Hopeless). I have my doubts about SloOsh. He's interested in pushing Hopeless, and he's more active in his defense than you all give him credit for. I think we need to give him another day to prove himself one way or the other. In the mean-time, we need to lynch the scummiest guy in the thread - Hopeless. Uh no Hapa. Read my filter again. Sloosh himself asked me to qualify my read on him. While not the most elaborate discussion ever, its nice of you to just ignore the most relevant part of your accusation: On January 17 2013 10:38 Hopeless1der wrote: You're pressure on me when I was commenting on Zentor, and subsequently using it to paint me as scum is my primary motivator in calling you scum. I do not believe there was any sufficient action I could have taken to adequately steered Prom's lynch onto anyone else and you insisting I should have tried harder, when there are multiple players who fit that bill irks me. There's also the night interactions with wbg. I'm not dissecting that discussion. I think you look scummier than bugs and I think there is at least 1 scum between the two of you. That is enough for me at the moment. | ||
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He's scum what makes you think he has a point? | ||
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On January 18 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Note: no read on hopeless. rofl its in there, just not outlined. It basically says I'm a lazy piece of shit and need to step up my game if he flips town and I'm also town. | ||
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##Vote SlOosh | ||
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On January 18 2013 04:38 Hapahauli wrote: Aughh... got the flu and I feel like hell. Fun fun fun. I need to rest some, but I should be around from now until the deadline. | ||
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On January 19 2013 09:38 Xatalos wrote: MrZentor, you REALLY need to start benefiting town if you in fact are town. Your behaviour after D1 is starting to look like your scum meta - and I'm starting to suspect that you just put your best effort into appearing like your town meta during D1, but couldn't keep it up anymore. It's really scummy how your activity and contributions have dropped dramatically after the beginning. He just claimed mason. No one is going to counter that, he's confirmed. Or if they do, hurray I get to live another day while we solve that problem. I'd love to see some more from him, but he's next to get shot at this point. | ||
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##Vote: Hapahauli Still willing to lynch Lazer. | ||
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On January 19 2013 09:44 Xatalos wrote: I know that, it would be a suicide to fakeclaim now. I posted that pressure for MrZentor almost at the same time as he claimed Mason. But regardless of that, it's beyond stupid to deny useful information even if you are town. Your post is stamped 2 minutes after Zentor's and reads as a direct response to his claim, in which you suggest he may not actually be town. Also, define useful. Scattered information doesn't do anything by itself, there needs to be a reason. What do you expect is in the logs? He needs to post the logs before he dies, but I don't think we need his logs ASAP. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 19 2013 09:47 Hapahauli wrote: Translation: "Since I haven't bothered to do so yet, I need to look through Hapa's filter and fling as much shit at him as I can." Go away scum. | ||
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On January 19 2013 09:52 Xatalos wrote: WTF? That's pretty much the scummiest post so far. You just counter-voted your voter without any reason other than "I'm going to make up reasons in the future". Even then you're diminishing your own vote by offering to lynch another player instead.... Scumteam: Hapahauli Xatalos Lazermonkey | ||
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On January 19 2013 09:55 iamperfection wrote: did you learn how to play scum from palmar? No, that guy is terrible | ||
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On January 18 2013 09:00 Dandel Ion wrote: Final Votecount: slOosh (6): jaybrundage, MrZentor, Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo, thrawn, Hopeless1der Hopeless1der (5): Hapahauli, slOosh, Xatalos, iamperfection, grush57 slOosh has been lynched! Stay tuned for the nightpost. @Jay: Obviously you'll claim to be town. With MrZ and Thrawn being masoned together, do you believe LM, wbg and me are the scumteam? | ||
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On January 19 2013 11:40 jaybrundage wrote: I find it hard to see WBG as scum, while he does have an amazing scum game. I can't see him bussing you this hard. I could see a Hopeless, Grush scum team The third is a wild card LM Xatalos maybe Iamp? However IDK bussing you yesterday would of been a good play yesterday. With my limited time, I dont have much ability to reread filters as much as i would like. How do you feel about a grush lynch hopeless? I have never seen STARSENSES fail, and I don't think grush is scum. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 19 2013 12:02 jaybrundage wrote: Also plz give all your opinions. Because unless something big changes your going to be the lynch'd today. If by a small chance your town. You can change the lynch. You just have to be forward with your reads. Post good reasoning use solid analysis. Show who you think scum are. Yeah I'm going to make a case on Hapa tomorrow morning, tired right now | ||
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On January 19 2013 13:55 wherebugsgo wrote: This guy getting lynched... (•_•) Guess you're pretty ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) hopeless I giggled a bit btw, with the number of power roles flipped, we should definitely be looking at a 3-man scumteam, and scum have a roleblocker. @Jay: Going through the database (TL Mafia Database) grush57 has 2 scumgames listed Starsenses FIRST occured in TL Mafia LV. AFTER LV, grush rolled scum in TL Mafia LVI. STARSENSES were not in effect You're right to be suspicious Jay, there is just barely enough evidence to believe grush's towncrumb, but either way I think scum are elsewhere. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + As I've already pointed out, Hapa tried to last-minute Ruuch, and went on to say that my Ruuch-vote was just as scummy as his Ruuch-vote. Not true in the slightest. For reasoning, I refer you to HAPA's own post with Promethelax: On January 14 2013 15:53 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah but Prome, what's scummy about your stance on Xatalos is that you have this huge scumread on Supersoft, can't find a single reason that he's town (in your own words), and all of a sudden completely happy with lynching Xatalos. AND Ruuch. It reads like you don't give a crap about who gets lynched. It's not as though Hapa didn't have a strong scumread on Prom either, because he actively tried to disable the Lazermonkey lynch: On January 15 2013 05:48 Hapahauli wrote: I'm not liking a Lazermonkey lynch. He looks like a replacement who's lost and not fully caught up. It's not alignment indicative, and lynching him seems like a coin-flip at best. Right now, we need to lynch the guy that's actually done something scummy - Promethelax. He was convinced SuperSoft was scum all game, then merrily decided he was happy with Xatalos + Ruuch being dead, then now is onto Lazermonkey for being a sheep. He earlier questioned me for going after lynch-bait, and now his top three scumreads are perhaps the biggest lynch-bait in the game. He needs to hang today. Hapa's stance is quoted in red. Now lets look at Lazer's post, and do note the timestamps: On January 15 2013 04:36 Lazermonkey wrote: My reads being terrible in your eyes aren't exactly alignment indicative, right? I may have rephrased myself bad. I did read the thread but I did play a game of HoN in the mean time. That is why the post that isn't actually very long + the fact that the thread was like 20 pages yesterday took me almost 2 hours. Once again you do this, you say my case is bad, yet you don't even mention ONE thing in it that is bad as well as not explaining what part of my play that haven't been similar to LVIII. That, my friend, is bad. Lazer commits himself to the "I've read the thread and I caught up". His filter does in fact read like he'd caught up. Hapa is full of it, and is casually dismissing Lazer? as a "coin-flip" in order to push confirmed-town Promethelax. Ruuch comes in and draws fire, followed closely thereafter by: On January 15 2013 09:07 Hapahauli wrote: Welp. Sorry prome =/ Ruuch, you need to tell us why that was not a scumclaim. WHAT WHAT WHAT!? SS gets prickly at Hapa for being loud and obnoxious. Note that Hapa hadn't really commented on SS for most of Day 1. He was constantly badgering him with questions and argued with Prom a bit about how Prom dropped his SS-scumread. He had a really wishy-washy post about his read of SS: On January 14 2013 09:11 Hapahauli wrote: Xat is the guy I'm most interested in right now. It looks like he's blending in with his vote on a random lynch-bait case (Jay) rather than being productive and scumhunting. I have very conflicting reads on SS, but I'm leaning town on him. Thrawn mentioned that he was a dick in his scum-game in LVIII, but his play seems really over the top for scum. I hate how he's playing it out, but it looks suicidal from a scum-perspective, since he's so willingly ready to make enemies in the thread. My concern is that he's supposedly an accomplished vet, and I'd expect more from him. However, the OMGUS and violence of his play is indicative of a pissed-off townie. As far as other reads, I'm more concerned with players avoiding the spotlight right now. Ruuch peace'd out of the thread and we haven't heard of him for almost a Day. He is a newbie, but he took a lengthy absence from the thread and has had nothing to contribute to the discussion. Otherwise, nothing very concrete. The amount of time spent asking SS the same questions, and still arriving at a townread looks suspicious. Follow that up with his pursuit of "You lynched for information, you must be scum" and Hapa looks more and more like scum, especially now that SS has flipped town. Now we arrive at the TUNNEL OF HOPELESSNESS: Initial Case, as part of a nice long list post: + Show Spoiler + On January 16 2013 07:15 Hapahauli wrote: Was going to post this closer to the deadline, but I desperately need sleep and I'll likely be out for several hours. GL HF, and hopefully I'll see you on the other side of the deadline. Bolded Green = Strong town-read Green = slight-to-moderate town-read Black/Bolded = Null Red = Suspicious, needs to get looked into Bolded Red = Scum Thrawn - Thrawn has played two scum-games (Mafia LVIII, Mario Mini Mafia), in which he was lurky and really tried to avoid attention. In this game, his activity as well as his voting-shenanigans early in the game are strongly-indicative of a town thrawn. He's not trying to blend in, and his early-game actions match up very well with his recent town-games. MrZentor - He's generally very scared of posting and very self-conscious about his image when he's scum. He's the polar opposite this game. He's playing incredibly similar to his previous two town games (British Mini + Witchcraft Mini), and is even more active and fearless than in those games. WBG - A mix of gut-feeling and the fact that all his posts have made sense. I really liked his post breaking down the votes... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=43#854 ... and there are certain posts in his filter that look too attention-grabbing to be from a scum player, notably: WBG is a damn-good scum player, so there's certainly a possibility that he is doing what he's doing as scum. I don't think that's the case though. Jaybrundage - Like MrZ, activity is very indicative of Jay's allignment. He's lurk-tastic as scum, but much more open and active as town. He passes the activity test for now, and all his behavior so far seems really typical of town Jay. I'll be worried if he stops posting, but it's unlikely he's scum based on his behavior so far. SloOsh - Probably a slight town-read on the basis that he's making sense and has been assertive about his reads. He did make the initial case on Promethelax on Day 1, but I agreed with it at the time and it didn't seem malicious. He's lurkier than I would like, but that's not a reason to lynch him. I'm interested to see his reads tonight. As WBG said, best to read him based on what cases he's pushing. SuperSoft - I'm torn on his pre-lynch actions. On the one hand, him voting for Promethelax looks really bad, and he seems more obsessed with shooting his SK read rather than the people he's convinced are scum. However, he's an arrogant asshole, and I can rationalize a lot of this from said town mentality. His attitude on Prome for example... ... if anyone can think like that as town, it's probably SuperSoft. I'm generally worried about him because he's supposedly a good player, and then proceeds to vote a town read, and he seems more obsessed with killing the SK than his actual scumreads. I don't see a reason why he's not calling a vigi shot on the guy he's convinced is scum (Lazer). grush - Is grush. I gave my thoughts earlier on him: Iamperfection - Replacement gets a blank slate. Also pretty happy with this development, considering that iamp has a really easily distinguished scum/town meta. If you see him clam up and have difficulty posting frequently and openly, he's scum. If he's super-spammy, he's town. Xatalos - Also very lynch-baity. I have very conflicting reads on him. He's more active than I've seen him in British Mini Mafia. At the same time, I haven't been thrilled with his Day 1 contributions. I tried to look in more detail through his town meta to see if I could pin down why he could be scum this game, and I can't find anything super-convincing about his alignment one way or the other. I need to see some more reads from him before I make a decision. He's a pretty wishy-washy guy regardless of alignment, so be careful with this one. Lazer - I've been looking over his "scumslip" for some time now. First off, I don't think a slip like that is damning by any measure. Townies can butcher wordings and do stupid things all the time. It's a really really bad idea to lynch him only based on his "slip." That being said, I'm leaning scum on him for the behavioral oddities in his defense (as thrawn pointed out): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=45#896 And given how Supersoft worded his "hey scumteam, shoot Hapa" post, it's unlikely that Lazer simply misread things. I do think it's POSSIBLE though, so handle with care. Hopeless - His pre-lynch are extremely scummy. Hopeless shows a shocking level of lynch-apathy that is completely at odds with his town mentality. He votes lazermonkey here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=28#552 This is individually fine and dandy, but then there's this post on Promethelax: If he gives a town-read on Prome, what is even the point of the bolded section? He doesn't attempt to discredit that viewpoint or even qualify it. He piles suspicion on Prome then gives an arbitrary town-read on him at the end of it. After that, he doesn't attempt to push lazer at all. When he does, he questions Lazer about his Jay read. He wants Lazer to convince him that Jay is scum, rather than pushing through the Lazer lynch. Then he stops pushing Lazer and begins pushing MrZ: Then FINALLY, when he's confronted for not pushing the Lazer lynch: He replies sarcastically and is annoyed by the fact that he should be posting a scumread. So Hopeless's play can be characterized by: 1) Not pushing his scumreads 2) Being remarkably unconcerned that his town read is getting lynched (and soft-pushing the Prome lynch) 3) Flinging shit at OTHER players rather than being concerned with the lynch (namely MrZ) Most importantly, make sure you look at Hopeless's town games. Page 3 of his filter in Mario Mini Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=123725¤tpage=3 Hell the entirety of his ChronoTrigger mafia play (as town) is night and day compared to his play this game. I need not pick specific examples, just read it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&user=123725 The big things I want to respond to are: My "piling suspicion" on Prom: - Yes, it did look bad. Prom "invented" reasons to unvote SS, but guess what, they BOTH flipped town. The way I saw it, Prom either found town-traits from meta-reading SS, or he never wanted to push him in the first place. I didn't know which one, but the way that Prom held onto his 'another dude, to talk about later', I felt his case on SS was more to draw attention than to push a scumread. Improper use of meta, which Hapa acknowledges himself: + Show Spoiler + On January 17 2013 05:27 Hapahauli wrote: Yes I did. However that's only one game out of the multitude of his recent town games in which he played very aggressively. In addition, I can't rationalize his stance on iamp from a town perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=52#1022 Votes Ruuch, afks for the entire night cycle, comes back and says he thinks iamperfection is town for no reasoning, then proceeds to make arguments against me based on the "assumption" of iamp being town. Furthermore, he stated that he didn't understand my reasoning for voting Ruuch, which is incredibly scummy considering that he voted Ruuch himself. He keeps coming back to that "assumption", its like going "SCUMSLIP, KILL IT", it isn't meaningful. My assumption doesn't portray a scum motive or mindset (in my heavily biased opinion). He also IGNORED a game where my current play matched closer to a more recent game, but dismissed it. I feel that Hapa would have pointed out the similarities and explained why he felt I was scummier overall, instead of skating over (or completely disregarding) my town-play in other games that match this one. On January 17 2013 02:53 Hapahauli wrote: No guys, we're lynching Hopeless today. Not SloOsh. How could he assume that someone is town? It makes no sense from a town perspective. He can't be the cop with a green check on iamp, since the cop is dead. Can't be mason buddies with iamp, since this happened: Solution? Hopeless is scum. He went from: a) Voting Ruuch b) Unsubstantiated town read on Iamp: c) Assumes that iamp is town. @ Iamp MrZ is lurk-tastic as scum. He is not lurk-tastic here. I got a very strong town feel for MrZ in the early game when he was driving a majority of the discussion. In his scum games, he very deliberately tries to avoid the spotlight. His early-game play is the opposite of that mentality. Furthermore, everything you mentioned above is the exact same thing he's done in his last two town games (Witchcraft + British Mini), both of which I was in. This is the exact same pattern, and I strongly believe he's town. As for him "wanting to change his meta," he was more active in the early game and generated more discussion than in any game I've been in with him. That's townie to me. Hapa pulls this word "assume" and makes an ass out of himself. If I don't have information and I need to get to a conclusion, I make an assumption, state that assumption, and continue with my argument. In this case, that assumption was that a player in the game (Ruuch/iamperfection) was town. I had reasoning for that read and while not concrete, it lent credence to my read against Hapa and just generally made sense to me. Ruuch did not read as scum, both from the way he posted at the end of Day 1 and how he swiftly replaced out. Hapa pounces on this hard, not to defend himself against my accusation, but to tear down my credibility by saying my argument holds no weight due to the fact that I made an assumption in the first place. By the way, another list post On January 17 2013 03:48 Hapahauli wrote: If I had to pick two right now, I'd say SloOsh/Grush I have reasons to think everyone else is town. Iamperfection is being active and open, which is indicative of his town-play (especially this early after replacing in). Whether or not he sustains this activity will be how I ultimately read him, but so far he's being townie. Jay is also more active than I'd expect from his scum-play. MrZ is also being active and open. The things that people find "scummy" about him (early town reads, lack of pushing reads) are completely normal for his town-play. It's the attention-grabbing in the early-game that really makes me think he's town. The early town-reads, him drawing attention to himself through his activity... these aren't things that scum MrZ does. Xata is gunning for you WBG, and I find that horrendously brave for a scum to do. Especially for him. Lazer was pushed by Hopeless for most of the game. Outside his "slip" or whatever, I can't find any reasons that he's scum. Thrawn's early game voting and attention grabbing is indicative of his town play. And you WBG have been one of the more active and concerned players in recent days. CHECK THAT OUT! Remember the last list post? The one where he found a reason OTHER than the scumslip to suspect Lazer? Go look, I'll wait. .... ... .. + Show Spoiler + Yeah I thought you'd be lazy, so here you go: Lazer - I've been looking over his "scumslip" for some time now. First off, I don't think a slip like that is damning by any measure. Townies can butcher wordings and do stupid things all the time. It's a really really bad idea to lynch him only based on his "slip." That being said, I'm leaning scum on him for the behavioral oddities in his defense (as thrawn pointed out): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=45#896 And given how Supersoft worded his "hey scumteam, shoot Hapa" post, it's unlikely that Lazer simply misread things. I do think it's POSSIBLE though, so handle with care. That's reverse connection analysis to defend a sucmbuddy people. Here's some more if you don't believe me: On January 17 2013 03:26 Hapahauli wrote: My first concern is seeing Hopeless hang, and then we'll find the rest. SloOsh could be scum based on how he handled himself last night (flinging shit at you, willingness to compromise on Hopeless), but I'm not convinced. As for a 3rd, I have no idea. I was originally thinking Lazer, but given how hard Hopeless decided to push him, I don't think that's realistic. + Show Spoiler + On January 17 2013 10:05 Hapahauli wrote: This is a really really good question. Why did you vote for Ruuch? Let's examine things. You voted him because you thought he had more chance to flip scum than Prom. This would imply that you had a really really strong town-read on Prom. Your strong town-read? You were leaning town on Prom. You had a weak town-read on Prom. Yet despite "leaning town" on Prome, you adopted a stance of being willing to lynch pretty much anyone but him. You knew he was going to flip town, and you distanced yourself from his lynch. But once again, if you had a town-read on Prome, what's the purpose of all the bolded stuff? You had a town-read on Prome, yet half of your post flung shit at him. None of that makes any sense. You still have not explained how you arrived at your town-read on Iamp. In fact I can't for the life of me figure out how you garnered a strong-enough townread on, given that Iamp had made 11 posts at the time you gave him a town-read. And it's not a weak town-read either - it's apparently strong enough to make you "assume" he's town in your analysis. That's complete bullshit. I put forth the question about why Hapa and I voted for Ruuch. He takes the opportunity to shit all over me, but refrains from commenting on his own reasoning (See Spoiler above). Thanks for putting words in my mouth, Hap. On January 18 2013 04:56 Hapahauli wrote: @ Lazer Can you explain how you changed your reads though? Telling us that you "re-evaluated" doesn't do much, especially when you voted WBG on Day 1, and are so willing to follow him right now. I can't figure out where your town-read on WBG came from. You went from this on Day 1/Night 1: To your town-read today: ...and you never give any explanation for it in your filter. Oh shit you guys, he's getting ready to bus Lazer, watch out. You know what else is cool? Lazer has a townread on ME. HAHA SOMEONE READS ME AS TOWN OMFG! Hapa doesn't want to discuss that with Lazer? Also, funny sidenote, I told Hapa to go away: And he did. trololol. P.S. My vote is still on Hapa. I'll move it to Lazer if that would appease anyone. | ||
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Current players alive:
Known Flips:
(SETUP SPECULATION) Based on the Flips, the Mafiascum C9++ setup should be: MM - Thrawn + MrZentor - Masons CC - Supersoft - Cop MMCC??T - 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer MMCCTTT - Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer These are the only ways to get an SK with the number of power roles flipped. This isn't all that useful right now, especially with the loss of 1-shot roles/somewhat hidden setup, but this is what I've been doing in the meantime, so why not. I guess it locks in the # scum at 3? And if a GF flips, there should be no more blues. (/SETUP SPECULATION) 6v3 at the moment, if we lynch town today, we're likely to be at 4v3 LYLO tomorrow. At present, my reads are: Town Hopeless1der grush57 jaybrundage wherebugsgo iamperfection MrZentor Scum Hapahauli Lazermonkey Xatalos | ||
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On January 20 2013 00:37 iamperfection wrote: They would have had to hold roleblock for hapa to be scum correct? Yes | ||
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On January 20 2013 00:48 iamperfection wrote: That is unlikely. Hapa would be a bad pick for scums late game player. Perhaps unlikely, but not out of the question. Consider what Hapa has actually contributed to this game: Prom and SS were town but he pushed them as scumreads, he wanted nothing to do with slOosh's lynch, instead he has been tunneling me for a very long time. If/when I flip town, what happens? | ||
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On January 20 2013 02:11 iamperfection wrote: I found it funny that you used the word if hopeless Theres always the chance I don't flip at all until endgame. | ||
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On January 20 2013 03:14 iamperfection wrote: The way you used in that sentence made it sound like if your town There's no scumslip in there. I might be bad, but I'm not that bad. | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:05 iamperfection wrote: You haven't really developed your other scum reads hope. Why are they scum and if hapa isn't scum who you thinking. Im really starting to think grush is scum. He ain't doing shit besides throwing retarded associations pre flip. You've dismissed my hapa read on the basis of withholding a roleblock. Then again, where does the framer fit into all this (I also forgot about the Framer being possible in my setup speculation)? Take away the roleblocker and comment on my case against Hapa please. | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:14 Xatalos wrote: Why am I scum btw, Hopeless? I don't see where you explained that. Just process of elimination? And grush, I really want to hear why iamperfection is scum... You just throwed that thought out there without any reason. No, I havent explained why, it was by elimination and its a very weak and situational read. That's why I haven't been advocating a switch onto you, only onto Lazer. You're still a scumread, but not one I'm comfortable pushing at the moment. | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:16 iamperfection wrote: Ok don't talk about your other reads then. I already said I found it unlikely for hapa to be scum. You said that based on scum holding their roleblock. I've just explained how that isn't necessarily true. | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:19 iamperfection wrote: Xaltos isn't scum either by the way unless he was extremely clever around the time mr zenter claimed mason. Can you detail your reasoning as to why that is the case? I don't see his actions being alignment indicative. He pressured Zentor for his activity dropping off and then insisted on getting the mason logs. I don't see how that is super town | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:20 iamperfection wrote: somebody is going around roleblocking we have had 2 claims. Who said scum roleblocker? | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:26 iamperfection wrote: Its tough from my phone but I believe you somewhat doubted the claim and then asked for logs. As scum you would have known mr z was town. His assertion is that he didn't doubt the claim because he hadn't seen it yet. | ||
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On January 20 2013 04:26 Xatalos wrote: Hm... There still has to be some reason besides just elimination. Or am I just the "least town" of the remaining players? What is the reason? Yeah, I read grush bugs and lamp as town. Zentor is "confirmed". Between you and Jay, I think you are scummier. No, I have not explained why, and I'm not going to while Hapa and LM are still on the table. There's no benefit to being scatterbrained when I'm about to die, let me focus on the scumreads I'm confident in so I can actually convince people my reads are shit, either before or after the lynch. | ||
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On January 20 2013 05:02 Hapahauli wrote: Mornin' all If anyone wants me to reply to the Hopeless case, I'll do so. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth my time. It's almost entirely based on pre-flip associations with Lazermonkey. Given that, it's nonsensical for him to want to lynch me before seeing Lazermonkey flip. Yeah thats what we need, more people unwilling to give out reads or put content into the thread. If the town doesn't see fit to request this, they* deserve to lose. * Disclaimer: Use of the word 'they' referring to the town is in no way, shape, or form indicative of a scumslip. Please fuck off and die if you believe otherwise MARTYRDOM I'm not posting again until someone has Hapa address my case against him. @Lazer's vote: Convenient that my town-meta can't be used to defend me anymore, now that you need to justify a vote on me. You're entire bugs case is associative contingent on me flipping scum (I won't). It's almost worth it to die, with the exception that I don't trust anyone to follow through once they realize you haven't properly hunted scum all game. | ||
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On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote: Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet. Thanks, champ... On January 20 2013 06:43 Xatalos wrote: Now martyring.... I don't think any sane town would hide most of their reads and then stop posting like that. This only kills discussion and makes this day less useful. As town, he would at least try to make this day more useful. Clearly that's not the case here. You think allowing my top scumread to ignore me is useful? No one wants to talk about it, no one gives it a second glance. Bugs takes the time to LOL at me: On January 20 2013 04:55 wherebugsgo wrote: Lol is Hopeless's argument against the RB claims REALLY "what if there is a town RB"? Here's a fact: if you are a town RB, I expect you to claim right the fuck now. It's far likelier that scum have RB, not town. The RBs in this context make much more sense, particularly given that a confirmed SK called Xata blue. If any town RBed Xata following that then they are incredibly retarded. Hopeless is stupid for missing this in the first place, and IMO it cements the notion that he is scum. OH WAIT I FERGOT On January 20 2013 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote: BTW I mentioned a town RB targeting Xata/Hapa being dumb but a JK on those same targets would not be, so my previous assessment didn't mention that. Because of that we can't really tell too much from the RB claims IMO. Fuck you too you dumb motherfucker. I want Hapa or Lazer lynched today. Prom wanted Lazer, as did SS. Guess which other confirmed town found Lazer scummy? On January 19 2013 06:57 thrawn2112 wrote: Tomorrow town should put a lot of focus on hopeless and lazermonkey with special emphasis on lazermonkey. both lynches people have actively pushed for his lynch and it just couldn't happen. yes, "town" have been lynched both times so that's not proof that lazer is scum, but the fact that lazer has been so scummy and not been lynched should be more than enough to convince you to at least go back through filters and read stuff that's been written about him. Here's D1 votecount: I'm using the last votecount before ruuch entered the thread. 2 people on lazer's wagon were confirmed town. That plus EVERYTHING that's happened since N1 should be more than enough to reason to hang lazermonkey. Just go back and read the exchange I had with him where he was completely unable to talk about reads, other than the read he was sheeping. (also interesting to mention that lazer was sheeping wbg, even tho wbg was one of the very few people it looked like lazer might be suspicious of.) The small amount he posted earlier today was scummy.. his most recent conclusion/insight is that hopeless and xatalos are probably not both scum. How is this helpful at all? It's the latest in a long pattern of lazermonkey making no attempt at all to scumhunt. Hapa is also one to worry about. D1 he pushed to lynch prom, then abandoned his scumread to vote for ruuch. If hapa turns out to be scum, I don't think that will say anything about ruuch's alignment. If ruuch is scum, he would have been a great buss opportunity. In N1 and D2 hapa tunneled hopeless the majority of the time.... but I don't remember him actually trying too hard to get hopeless lynched or entering into other conversations. I think wbg is town but you should pay attention to how well he contributes towards lynching scum from here on out. Same thing applies to hapa. everyone else I don't really have any relevant thoughts about. But does anyone re-visit the past like they're supposed to? How am I supposed to convince you to go after Lazer if everything has already been addressed? How am I supposed to get more than 1 person lynched at a time? I have yet to get any contribution from anyone regarding my scumread on Hapa (Hapa you don't count, no hard feelings, but I think you're scum). I try to present something fresh to the thread and I get promptly ignored and/or called stupid. There will be yet another case on Lazer, either later tonight or tomorrow morning. In the meantime: HEY TOWN, SHEEP YOUR DEAD BRETHREN, KILL LAZERMONKEY. ##Unvote: Hapahauli ##Vote: Lazermonkey On January 20 2013 07:33 Hapahauli wrote: The thing is, most of the reason he's "suspicious" of me is because of association with lazer. Which is nonsensical. Because if this is the case, why the fuck is he voting me instead of Lazer? "Lazer is scum, therefore I'm going to vote someone who's scum by association!" - this is not a town mentality. Otherwise, he pretty much looked through my filter and shoveled shit on anything he could find. Of note: My vote on Ruuch - I explained this earlier: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1191 My stance on SS - Hopeless says that me changing my mind on SuperSoft is scummy on day one. Given the volatility of Day 1 play and reads, this is absurd. I questioned him a bunch, and him completely and openly ignoring me, coupled with is confrontational attitude in general made me lean town on him for most of Day 1. Hopeless's OMGUS - Basically Hopeless accuses me of "shitting all over him" and mis-interpreting his Meta. As for "shitting all over him" - it's called making cases and scum-hunting. As for his meta, Hopeless asserts that his play in Mafia LVIII was similar to his play here, and that I willfully ignored it. I wasn't in that game so I wasn't familiar with it. I reasonably drew on the two games I played with Hopeless in recent memory (Mario Mini + CT Mafia) in which he played completely differently. As for Mafia LVIII, one game he played passively as town doesn't outweight all the other games he aggresively played as town. In addition, WBG mentioned that he (hopeless) played as he did in LVIII due to time constraints. He had no such excuse here. But Hopeless acts like meta is a large part of my case. It isn't. He treats iamp/ruuch as town for questionable reasons, he soft-pushed the Prome lynch and is brushing it off like it's no big deal, he's had Lazer as a scum-read all game and has been zealously pushing OTHER targets all game , some by pre-flip associations with his top scumread. I didn't go after you just because of the Lazer association. For proof, look at the three things you address in the quoted post. However you're right, there is a lot of associative stuff in there, so I suppose I'll go finish the job of getting Lazer lynched and then I'll just repost my case when he flips scum, cool? I maintain that you're vote on Ruuch is way worse than my own. Your explanation is insufficient when compared to your own reasoning for reading SS as scum. I had no excuse about "time constraints" in LVIII either. The excuse I think bugs is referring to was my defense against Lazer that game, where I cited LVII as a game where I was significantly more active and useful. Not due to having more time, but because I was just doing stuff in the thread more. I still was generally lurky, but more useful overall. As for me pushing "other" candidates, from the time I started with Lazer I pushed - Lazer as a scumread - Ruuch as a "NOT Prom, please not Prom" read - Pressured, but never pursued Zentor - slOosh for self-preservation reasons, while still maintaining Lazer is scum - WIFOM`d my vote back onto Lazer - You - Xata My top reads are you and Lazer. You're my more pressing concern because you are a huge factor in getting me lynched, and since I have a scumread on you in addition to Lazer, I have every reason to try to get you lynched for it. I assume (omg that word) I'm going to die, so my association suspicions are already in the thread. Town isn't going to get another chance in the event I die, so it becomes more important to peg the entire team as the game progresses, especially given that I'm likely to get lynched before you. Great timing btw, going out again =\ | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On January 20 2013 13:26 grush57 wrote: Also I have a plan Hopeless flips town. Plan? Hopeless flips scum. Plan? | ||
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On January 20 2013 13:29 grush57 wrote: No not liek that, it's something unrelated and I can't tell. Do you think you're liable to die I'd you tell us your plan? I'd rather have the opportunity to discuss this supposed plan with you instead of raging at everyone in the thread for being lazy pieces of shit | ||
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*if you tell us your plan | ||
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On January 20 2013 14:05 iamperfection wrote: hey hopeless why dont you do that thing where people make a read on every player in the game. You should do that kind of nowish instead of later i say. No. You'll get a case on Lazer in the morning. After that, you can all go fuck yourselves. | ||
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Well, I try. It's nice to be appreciated. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=187170¤tpage=6 Read it, learn what town-Lazer pushing a scumread looks like. Go read it goddamnit. In this game, none of that persistence is present. I implore you to read his filter from THIS game, and look for the ways that Lazer has read me as town all game, and then look at this post: On January 20 2013 05:29 Lazermonkey wrote: Hopeless is probebly scum after all... Sure, his play is similar to what it was last game but on the other hand him playing similar to last game when he was town is actually completely irrelevant because it actually doesn't tell us anything about his play as scum. Also, his play overall simply isn't townie at all. His posted some long posts some time ago but the first one was just him echoing what he said D2, Hapa + Lazer are scum. The second one was talking about setup. Why would you as town in this position do something like that? A townie who is just about to die would do ANYTHING to help his team get on the right track and give out all reads because when he flips, everyone will know that what he said was comming from a townie who at least wanted to hunt scum. Him repeating reads isn't helpfull at all. We would go through his filter anyway once he flips and find those reads. With that being said, Hopeless is going to get lynched today it seems, and spending more time explaining why he is scum seems ##Vote: Hopeless WBG Wbgs vote pattern yesterday is veeery funky indeed. He voted/unvoted between SlOosh and Hopeless no less than 5(!) times. Let's look a little bit closer at all this. The first voteAfter this WBG goes on to put HEAVY pressure on SlOosh, points out several things in SlOosh play that makes him scum. The second vote While admittedly I think he is getting convinced by the guy he thinks he scum a little bit too fast, I don't really see any problem with this vote. He did state quite explicit that he had Hopeless down as scum. The third voteNow, this is when things start to get fishy. WBG states that because he read my post about about Hopeless play last game and how its similar to last game, he is now much more inclined to belive that Hopeless looks town, or at least much better. However, I have a hard time thinking this is what actually happend. In last game, all of us three were town. Me and WBG were heavily suspicious of Hopeless that game(WBG filter). Both of us were pushing him hard core. I have a hard time seeing that WBG just forgot all this in a few days and needed my post as a reminder, especially since he seems to be a guy remembering things like this. For example, he was very fast at dissmissing my accusations against Jay PURELY based on meta from another game, a game that was played about a month ago. Also note how during the time that he voted Hopeless, He doesn't really pressure him at all. He only has one post asking Hopeless about whether or not he is willing to lynch into SlOosh or not. This is in stark difference to when he was pushing SlOosh scum. The forth vote Once again, this is a very scummy vote. In just three hours he went from saying that he liked Hopeless posting much more, that he saw similarities to his last game and that SlOosh was scum to the opposite. Hopeless doesn't actually post even once during the time between the third and forth vote. WBG is instead convinced by Hapa's arguments on the issue. During the time between those two votes WBG goes on to say that Hopeless is a good lynch once again. But what happend with Hopeless improved posting? What happend with the meta read that made him look more town? And during this time, WBG still seems convinced that SlOosh is a good lynch, yet he votes Hopeless. He also tells us to conolidate which is strange because the votecount at this point was looking like this: The fifth and final vote Not much to say. WBG doesn't really motivate this swap at all and would he have voted Hopeless, hopeless would've died. Summary: WBG is flipping his vote like a mad man between Hopeless and SlOosh. However, while he is pushing SlOsh hard, he doesn't push hopeless at all. He even pushes SlOosh while he is voting Hopeless. As for the last scum, I'm not sure. My best guess at this point is grush because of the simple explanation that I have a town read, albeit not too strong, on every else. Consider the fact that there is NO OTHER CANDIDATE. In addition, there are currently 2 people not voting, 1 of which is MrZentor. I am either being bussed like a fucking champion, or scum see no reason to contest my lynch. I wouldn't mind Lazer voting me, except he's had me as town the entire time. Not null, not leaning, he hard defends me against Hapa: On January 17 2013 05:58 Lazermonkey wrote: Meeeh, I really think Hopeless should be defending himself, but since he seem to suck at that... I feel like alot of your points, maybe even all of them, could be explained by the fact that Hopeless is bad. And do you see any scum motivation in scum motivation in saying that a player is suspicious for voting the same person that you are voting yourself? This just seems retarded as both alignments. Also, Hopeless feels like he bases alot of his reads on OMGUS(whoever votes him, he votes etc) Also, I don't exactly see that he went from vote ruush to Iamp is town without explaination as scummy. ruush was a policy lynch and nothing else, and Iamp is clearly looking better than ruush to say the least. I'm not terribly fond of having to be defended because I'm bad and therefore not scum, but fuck it. One way or another, his reasoning for his read of me (as town or scum) is weak and scummy as it has allowed him to flop on his read very easily. Previous reasons to lynch Lazer: PROMETHELAX+ Show Spoiler + On January 14 2013 16:08 Promethelax wrote: I was not convinced by sloosh's case. I don't get how that is your read Haps. I looked back at Xat's past games and some of SS as well. SS is a giant prick but I'm less comfortable lynching him after looking into his Bureauracracy filter, he is clearly a good player and he clearly likes to be an ass and post shitty one-liners. since that is the case I went to look at other players in this game. Xat stood out as a dude who I didn't know anything about and there was a case on him so I looked at paranioa, he is clearly trying to figure out who scum is and being a try hard little townie. He is not the same here and I am willing to vote him. SS clearly isn't happening today and thus ##Unvote I'd like to take a look at our friend the fourth guy I mentioned earlier. I know we should give replacements the BotD but the hell with that, today is day 1 and that isn't much to lose. Lazer: He comes in with a promise to read the thread and in one fell swoop fails to do so, followed by I know you are looking at lies in a big way right now thrawn, why don't you point out the glaring lie in these two posts. It doesn't help that LM has sheeped me in his read entirely. When I question him about it he says: which, put through scum translator, reads as BUDDYBUDDYBUDDYBUDDYSHEEPBUDDY the entire rest of his filter is talking at SS in a way that provides nothing for the thread. He follows that up by vanishing and having made on ly one read the whole game, a sheep case after not reading the thread and excusing himself from having to do so. Lazer is the scummiest of the guys in my possible lynch catagory and the one whom no one is looking at, Lazer isn't Ruuch and shouldn't get a free day to learn to play in. There is no excuse for this play. ##Vote LazerMonkey - Entering thread without catching up, throwing suspicion on SS, effectively sheeping Prom This quote: On January 15 2013 04:39 Promethelax wrote: I didn't call your case bad, I said I thought any case on jay was bad because he is best mislynch NA. Your reads being terrible is very alignment indicative, you are up for lynch and you have three reads and calling one dude names. You aren't trying to help town, none of those are new reads and none of them are explained there. the difference in your play is that in LVIII you felt like a townie trying to work out what was going on and here you feel like a scummer trying to find someone to vote. You are looking for excuses and not reasons. supersoft: tbh, I'm not even sure how detailed his read was, he just kind of sheeped my case towards the end of the Day and gave out these posts: On January 15 2013 03:24 supersoft wrote: what you say is false. If you read me again you can see that i already - before hopeless even mentioned you once - compared your playstyle this game, to your playstyle in kurumis game. + I already downgraded you a whole lot after your first thread appearance. btw. you are calling me a retard? I just finished my LLM among the top 10>X% of all lawyers in Germany. I guess i am not completely retarded, since people are willing to pay a lot of money for the shit i am talking about. On January 15 2013 03:27 supersoft wrote: ##vote: Lazermonkey hehe you just sealed the deal + Show Spoiler + For reference, here was my "case" against lazer at the time On January 15 2013 00:26 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm voting Lazermonkey until he justifies why jay is scummy (or finds a proper scumread), because quite frankly he hasn't. He's shown that Jay is playing different than that other time he was town but hasn't shown why he's scum. OMGUS isn't a scumtell if WBG is to be believed, but Lazer puts that on display like its the nail in the coffin. He's scattered his vote and it looks like he's setting up to sheep again when the time comes to consolidate. ##Vote: Lazermonkey Thrawn2112: On January 18 2013 03:36 thrawn2112 wrote: this is exactly the kind of thing I expected to happen if I didn't immediately push the LM lynch at the start of D2. He had a very big impact on the thread during n1 and there was a lot of possible discussion that could come of it. super died, and so there was nobody except me to push his lynch. in the meantime he has done nothing except argue against a hopeless lynch and lightly fling suspicion at wbg, sloosh, and jay. his vote post was lacking original thought. It has been an hour since he voted and I've been asking him to share reads the entire time but he has done nothing but defend himself and talk about wifom. On January 18 2013 03:58 thrawn2112 wrote: i feel frustration would be much easier to detect... he is being quite passive about his frustration. he doesn't seem like he actually wants to help in any way. On January 18 2013 04:09 thrawn2112 wrote: which is more likely.. that he's town and has no reads or that he;'s scum? On January 18 2013 05:25 thrawn2112 wrote: the joke is that lazermonkey is obvious scum and everyone is skirting around the issue On January 18 2013 07:39 thrawn2112 wrote: my memories of playing with town hopeless is that I yell at him a lot for not scumhunting. imo LM is such obvious scum, idk how people aren't voting for him. Prom was lynched instead of Lazer (i'm not counting any votes that happened after ruuch's entrance) and LM had 2 confirmed town (sloosh and prom) voting for him. lets lynch LM please Page 63 is kind of nice too http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=63#1248 And once again: On January 19 2013 06:57 thrawn2112 wrote: Tomorrow town should put a lot of focus on hopeless and lazermonkey with special emphasis on lazermonkey. both lynches people have actively pushed for his lynch and it just couldn't happen. yes, "town" have been lynched both times so that's not proof that lazer is scum, but the fact that lazer has been so scummy and not been lynched should be more than enough to convince you to at least go back through filters and read stuff that's been written about him. Here's D1 votecount: I'm using the last votecount before ruuch entered the thread. 2 people on lazer's wagon were confirmed town. That plus EVERYTHING that's happened since N1 should be more than enough to reason to hang lazermonkey. Just go back and read the exchange I had with him where he was completely unable to talk about reads, other than the read he was sheeping. (also interesting to mention that lazer was sheeping wbg, even tho wbg was one of the very few people it looked like lazer might be suspicious of.) The small amount he posted earlier today was scummy.. his most recent conclusion/insight is that hopeless and xatalos are probably not both scum. How is this helpful at all? It's the latest in a long pattern of lazermonkey making no attempt at all to scumhunt. Hapa is also one to worry about. D1 he pushed to lynch prom, then abandoned his scumread to vote for ruuch. If hapa turns out to be scum, I don't think that will say anything about ruuch's alignment. If ruuch is scum, he would have been a great buss opportunity. In N1 and D2 hapa tunneled hopeless the majority of the time.... but I don't remember him actually trying too hard to get hopeless lynched or entering into other conversations. I think wbg is town but you should pay attention to how well he contributes towards lynching scum from here on out. Same thing applies to hapa. everyone else I don't really have any relevant thoughts about. Guess who got nk'd? Yes, the end of this was me invoking the desires of dead townies who had limited information compared to us now, but they, all 3 of them, wanted to lynch Lazer. No one finds that even remotely suspicious? 2/3 have been nk'd, though it isn't clear if/who slOosh shot. Oh shit conspiracy theory time. Maybe closer to deadline. | ||
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On January 21 2013 07:12 Lazermonkey wrote: Hopeless, you realise that a good move as town would be to actually give YOUR reads on ALL people in this situation? After the responses I've been getting all game? Nah I'll be indignant and obnoxious thank you. Less rage inducing for me. | ||
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On January 21 2013 07:24 Lazermonkey wrote: Wait, you don't care about the game? But then why take the time to even post this? Why take the time to write a case on both me and Hapa? It doesn't actually matter about what response you will get. Its not only about you avoiding to get lynched anymore but also about you giving town reads we can trust to 100%. If the town can't figure out my town reads based on my filter when I flip...I just... I don't even. I'm not kind of scummy on you and hapa, you're strong reads, so giving town reads on the rest of the player base is redundant | ||
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On January 21 2013 07:37 Lazermonkey wrote: Some of your town reads are from daaays ago. And for some of them you don't even give any reasoning what so ever. That isn't very helpfull at all. Do you think you are helping town by just sitting here doing jack shit instead? Please look at the way Lazer is pushing me here. There are a finite number of scum in the game. I STRONGLY believe I've pegged two. At most I've missed one. Lazer's accusations suggest I need to give extensive town reads because they'll be beneficial. Bullshit. My town reads are inherent in the fact that they aren't scumreads. The current "exception" is xata/bugs. I think the scumteam is LM Hapa WBG at the moment. | ||
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On January 21 2013 07:50 Lazermonkey wrote: Dude, I'm not even pushing you any longer. I am saying that it is insanely likely that you will die in about one hour and IF you for some reason actually is town instead of scum, the good news for us is that we know everything you have said has been comming from a townie. If you actually want town to win, you should have realised that by now and start to read filters in order to give out as good reads of every player in the game as you possibly can. You haven't lost the game just because you got lynched and helping us by giving out reads to the best of your ability should be your priority 1 right now. But owell, If you dont feel like giving out reads, it means you are most likely scum anyways. And I don't feel like arguing with scum about stuff like this. Its LYLO tomorrow. Town reads are meaningless. | ||
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On January 21 2013 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote: This is actually kind of confusing. If I'm wrong about some of my town reads, it makes Lazer the better lynch by far. Everyone has called both players scum but no one is really willing to defend either of them. On meta they both look bad. They're both easily lynched, though Hopeless seems to be resisting the lynch far more. Lol there's pros and cons to lynching them both. Convince me to vote. Most swaying arguments for either side will get my vote. I'll be around till deadline. What the fuck is this? When I flip town, you bastards remember this shit and hold him accountable, especially when Lazer flips scum, and for the love of god, can you please kill him already? | ||
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On January 21 2013 08:03 Xatalos wrote: Scumreads are more useful than townreads, but townreads are more useful than no reads at all. Surely you could understand this if you were town. ORLY? It sure doesn't seem that way. SS had me as town, see his last list post: + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2013 01:10 supersoft wrote: scumlist scumminess from bottom to top. The higher the townier: supersoft thrawn2112 - refused to say he's town "yes, i wonder this as well" lol. yeah sure. i dont buy it. "it'd be fun to be a scumteam again, skyping was more fun than posting in the real thread in that game" - pointless - "no/yes of course, duh" -votes sloosh good case on sloosh. + catches wbgs bad case + keeps up agressive scumhunting. + Hapahauli spammer townie ++ still annoys me with his pointless question about that possible scumslip of zentor. GOTTA READ MORE OF THIS GUY, FLYING UNDER MY RADAR Hopeless1der § I am town. + excuse - First, I'm no longer convinced of my scumread, but here's my explanation for my reasoning + SS should not have been able to retroactively apply Prom's post to wbg's "scum"read. - that doesnt matter at all, i wanted to give my current thoughts, and not something old. Good catch doesnt mean wbg catched him, it means in general a good catch right now in this particualr moment and not in the past. i didnt want to honor wbg here. Is also drastically out of place because he's half buddying sloosh while calling him scum and also, Sloosh has never exhibited suspicion towards Zentor, showing SS is not reading the thread. complete meaningless. I just wanted something to talk about with sloosh. My vote never is graved in stone. = votes me for terrible reasons okay case against lazer + MrZentor "Super, Jay is town. -.-" scumslip ? is the older cousin. defend is naturally - how does he know he's town, is still the question says he can read jay because of one post of his -- wrong thought about what scum does and what not. confuses kush and jay even though jay is his cousin? makes good jokes and sees that wbg is strange ++ Xatalos understands me + actively defending himself + grush57 I am town. + "How do you know? scum with supersoft hmm?" ++ disappeared ---- jaybrundage zentor says hes town + Ruuch newbie missing - wherebugsgo talks to me -/+ decent list + bad case terrible scumreads, abandoned prom?! Why on earth doesnt defend me, even though talks to me all the time. defends me finally, cares to explain some things ++ as scum he should have lynched me. Probably too risky after zentor thrawn and hapa defended me? _________________________________________ no lynch d1 i am really undecided yet. I dont like the X-case - really hard to place him in my list. slOosh calls my stuff BS, hides behind common opinions -- bad case on easy xatalos - really bad reasoning accusing me --- votes prom !!! reasonable second appearance ++ _________________________________________ no lynch d1 Promethelax §§ pointless questions, didnt read -- terrible case on me, defending his scumbuddy sloosh case contains one quote of myself. extremely fake or extremely terrible. Either stupid as shit or scum. Ay did get his facts about me straight. Actually really read my meta ++ Votes Lazer Kushm4sta now Lazermonkey §§§ pissed because the host said he'd modkill him if he goes retard. ++ buddys me - funny guy though + ___________________________ after the replacement absolutely ridiculous case against me ------------ He was also wrong about me last game. completely different playstyle compared to his townstyle. useless vote on Jay for bad reasons, i share hopeless opinion here. ## unvote right now i am really undecided. just wanted to leave you my updated list here. I won't be able to check the thread for a couple of hours Prom had me as annoying and trolly but consistent with my town meta + Show Spoiler + On January 15 2013 06:15 Promethelax wrote: He was scum in LC and Mario mini. Town recently in WC and British. Thrawn. I came into the thread late because of work, I posted a bad post because I felt I had to post and get into the thread. It was dumb. I don't think I am a victim. I didn't want to push the SS wagon hard anymore as I had a scummier scum read, I knew that the wagon would fall apart without me (have you ever seen Hopeless push a wagon well? Or scum Lazer?). I seriously don't understand people who sheep me. Which is why I questioned it. Last game I had you down as somewhat scummy and you kept not presenting the reasons for my play being 'anti-town' this game you just called be scum but without evidence. I can't refute you calling me scum. Now that you have some reasons I can refute those. They are wrong. My first post was bad but nothing I have done is scummy. I changed my mind on SS and Xat because I looked them over more. Sorry. I'm out for the night for real for real this time. I'm going to read dump since you guys might lynch me and I'd like to be somewhat useful to town before I go. Town: SloOsh: early interactions with Bugs and the casual tones in This post Hopeless: too trolly early on for scum hopeless, I don't like his play but it seems consistent with his town play. Grush: STARSENSES Do not lynch yet: Thrawn I had him down as town earlier, he was trying to figure things out. This shitty case on me needs to be looked at again though. Hapa: not enough from Hapa yet for me to call him scum. My gut says scum but I don't have any reason to believe it. Null: MrZ and Jay (I really just ignore them until later) Bugs (me no able to read him) Would lynch: Xat Ruuch SS Scum: LM Thrawn was not willing to support my wagon: On January 18 2013 07:26 thrawn2112 wrote: few things about hopeless that make me not want to vote for him: his exchange with hapa about why either of them voted for ruuch. hopeless was making much more sense, and actually made me more suspicious of hapa. hapa was the one who abandoned his scumread (prom) to vote for ruuch. hopeless was voting for ruuch because ruuch wasn't prom, who hopeless had made it clear he didn't want to get lynch. yet hapa is calling out hopeless for what reason? also the hopeless wagon was/is scummy as hell. first there was wbg+sloosh calling each other scum, then all the sudden there are 4 votes for hopeless including wbg and sloosh. there is no way I'm getting on that wagon. Also, he seems to remember this being representative of my town play: On January 18 2013 07:39 thrawn2112 wrote: my memories of playing with town hopeless is that I yell at him a lot for not scumhunting. imo LM is such obvious scum, idk how people aren't voting for him. Prom was lynched instead of Lazer (i'm not counting any votes that happened after ruuch's entrance) and LM had 2 confirmed town (sloosh and prom) voting for him. lets lynch LM please But Hey, you want townreads, because you've made such superior use of them so far, right? | ||
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None of the following things are known, they are suspicions that I have. Scum shot slOosh N1 slOosh shot SS N1 Town has a JK that was used on Hapa N1 and Xata N2 Scum do not have a roleblocker, possibly a Framer bugs is scum, strongly believes slOsh is SK since he is still alive (remember, I think Hapa was jk'd), Day 2, pushes him hard while keeping me up as an alternative. Scum dont care who dies between me and sloosh, but killing sloosh probably looks better for him in the long run. Of particular note: On January 18 2013 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote: So do you asshats understand why I put those two links? I couldn't actually determine whether he was the SK or mafia, but I didn't want to speculate. My gut said he was SK but I simply argued that he was scum because it was simpler. At least I know now I'm not shit at metaing people. Let's kill Hopeless tomorrow. slOosh was an ASSASSIN, not a Serial Killer. Completely different. Hell, slOosh handed us strongandbig on a fucking platter in LVII, despite having already caught Toad and being well on his way to his win-con, just for shits and giggles. WBG takes credit for having this awesome read, when he in fact had it semi-confirmed from setup speculation. Lazer is setting up to distance himself from bugs because he's likely to follow me to the grave quite swiftly. Force him to push bugs hard. more for the Hapa/Lazer association, but this takes me back to kushm4sta - On January 13 2013 12:34 kushm4sta wrote: hapa you aren't acting townie. You are actively pushing logical falsehoods for some reason and I don't get why. A more spammy version of the dumb or scum conundrum. I'm just pointing out how your logic is bad. ---->I was useless as scum, i'm useless right now, therefore I must be scum. Bad reasoning.. one example of many in the thread so far. @hapa are you saying stupid shit just because you like to talk a lot? why are you using bad logic? When I ask him to elaborate: On January 14 2013 04:02 kushm4sta wrote: @hopeless I'm reluctant to call hapa scum actually, because I actually remember him playing in a very similar way as town in witchcraft. He immediately gets forced out of the game for being...kush. When lazer flips scum, consider kush's role, however short, in the game as well. | ||
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On January 27 2013 10:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Thanks for playing Dessert Mini Mafia guys! I kept telling pies to concede in the QT but they didn't listen T.T, WP regardless. Thanks to Dandel for putting up with my AFKing due to work and flavor / vote posting in my absence. The Flavor was exquisite. See: Post 328, scumqt @Bugs I`ll be sad if you don`t come back. Perhaps by the time you return I`ll have stopped being such a lurky sonofabitch and you can enjoy a good ole fashioned game of mafia like you used to. | ||
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