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On January 17 2013 10:15 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 10:14 slOosh wrote:On January 17 2013 08:40 iamperfection wrote:
and can someone talk to me in a back in forth basis i find easier to figure things out if some is here with me actively talking about the game asking me questions and what not.
Ill be back in an hour. I'll talk. What makes me scum, and what makes me a better choice than hopeless? i kind of feel like wbg does i would be willing to kill either of you.
So I'll put you down as you think both of us are scum and don't have a preference.
Everyone should state clearly what they think when they make the vote.
Either X is scum and Y is scum too,
Or X is town and Y is scum.
With a polarized lynch such as this, even though it may in a mislynch it can garner valuable information for town and puts immense pressure on scum.
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jay, you haven't objectively commented on hopeless. Right now you have him as town because you think I'm scum. That won't do. What about his posts show that he is town?
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You guys just gonna let hopeless skate by making a case on lazer and dropping it whenever he feels like it? He is gonna make it to lategame like that.
Hopeless, in your own words, what about me is scummy? Or are you purely looking out for yourself and you don't care about my alignment?
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On January 17 2013 10:35 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 10:24 slOosh wrote:On January 17 2013 10:15 iamperfection wrote:On January 17 2013 10:14 slOosh wrote:On January 17 2013 08:40 iamperfection wrote:
and can someone talk to me in a back in forth basis i find easier to figure things out if some is here with me actively talking about the game asking me questions and what not.
Ill be back in an hour. I'll talk. What makes me scum, and what makes me a better choice than hopeless? i kind of feel like wbg does i would be willing to kill either of you. So I'll put you down as you think both of us are scum and don't have a preference. Everyone should state clearly what they think when they make the vote. Either X is scum and Y is scum too, Or X is town and Y is scum. With a polarized lynch such as this, even though it may in a mislynch it can garner valuable information for town and puts immense pressure on scum. you take my answer as acceptable?
Well no, because I think this wagon on me is awful but seeing as no one is willing to actually discuss it more than a "this is my conclusion, I don't want to talk about my thought process", this is the best I can do.
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On January 17 2013 10:38 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 10:29 slOosh wrote:
You guys just gonna let hopeless skate by making a case on lazer and dropping it whenever he feels like it? He is gonna make it to lategame like that.
Hopeless, in your own words, what about me is scummy? Or are you purely looking out for yourself and you don't care about my alignment? You're pressure on me when I was commenting on Zentor, and subsequently using it to paint me as scum is my primary motivator in calling you scum. I do not believe there was any sufficient action I could have taken to adequately steered Prom's lynch onto anyone else and you insisting I should have tried harder, when there are multiple players who fit that bill irks me.There's also the night interactions with wbg. I'm not dissecting that discussion. I think you look scummier than bugs and I think there is at least 1 scum between the two of you. That is enough for me at the moment.
LOL, like you are busy doing anything else right now. Put your money where your mouth is. Name the actual players culpable, and why you complain that I call you out but have no problem not calling the other players out yourself.
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On January 17 2013 11:19 jaybrundage wrote:
SlOosh In the small possibility that you are town. If you could give your reads on everyone and your other scum reads as well, I know that you think Hopeless and WBG are scum is there a third party that appeals to you? We have a whole day left. The more people post and be transparent the better of a chance town has towards winning.
The way town gains from this polarizing cycle is forcing everyone to take a hard stance on it. Not letting stuff like this slide.
On January 17 2013 01:44 MrZentor wrote:
##unvote
##vote slOosh
Gogogogogo
On January 17 2013 06:48 grush57 wrote:
Sorry guys I know I've been afk but I can't help that.
If there's any consolation, i am town because of starsenses.
##Vote: Hopeless1dr
On January 17 2013 06:54 grush57 wrote:
Nvm Ill go slooshie
##Unvote
##Vote: slOosh
They don't have content. Sure you can pull in meta but
1) I have very little faith in almost every single player in TL mafia in their capacity to use it correctly
2) Scum can easily use it to push their agenda and the worst they get is "oh you meta'd wrong".
We should be pressuring these guys to give a crap, because it's these guys who will be alive near endgame and we got nothing on them.
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Ehh ... disappointing.
You guys let Mr Zentor and grush lurk away, you guys vote me on a comparison basis of WBG, many of you totally ignoring / avoiding commenting on hopeless (I can't tell the difference) and none of you seem to be concerned that hopeless is lurking now that the lynch is pretty much set.
I'll read dump later tonight when I have time, and with my flip you maybe you guys will finally get it together, cause this has got to be the most frustrating town I have ever played with.
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Just got back home, will be catching up and dropping my reads in a moment
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Because I never carry notes and I have to go searching for filters. It's coming.
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Final Reads
This isn't a comprehensive list because last time I was mislynched I felt pressured to give out reads to survive, and ended up thinking really poorly and making really bad cases.
Spoilered is GMarshal's post game commentary of my play.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 15 2012 23:15 GMarshal wrote:
3.) slOosh - Tunnel less, the battle between you and VE is a pretty clear indicator of two townies arguing to death. Had you just taken a step back and looked at it coldly, you would have seen the people who avoided involvment and edged you on, and been able to kill mafia, instead your stubbornness resulted in your lynch. Still, you were active and open with your opinions, while your misslynch sucked, its not entirely your fault. Your reads were all over the place (and your overly complex theory about D77 being mafia is in line with the kind of stuff overly paranoid townies concoct), which is meh, your case on prpl was good though, you should have stuck with just it day 3 rather than going on tangents all over the place. Not terrible play, but I know you can do better. Remember, go one scum at a time, and *always* take a step back to reconsider a few hours before a lynch. 5/10 Not terrible by any means, also not one of your best games.
thrawn2112
I have pegged as a poor town player. Objectively he looks into things that aren't really there. However he is consistent and you can understandably see how his reads were influenced by supersoft.
Xatalos
Yes. This is blue. I've already pointed it out but his play this game does not match either his town or scum play. It is much more reserved and cautious. At some point I figured that I've confused red for blue, and tried to back out without giving it away. His pursuit of me is very townie as he would no doubt be suspicious, and his case on WBG shows he isn't blending in with the temperature of the thread but going directly against it.
So why am I outing him? Because I find his mislynch a high possibility and the way that town is going, I don't think he can aptly defend himself. Reducing mislynch candidates is very important given that there are so many and scum can just shift it away from their buddies. In any case I could be totally wrong so scum have to gamble a shot on him.
Here is my pseudo "I found you crumb". I didn't know how to do it without being blatant so I worked with the mason (pumpkin) flavor.
On January 15 2013 08:14 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:48 Xatalos wrote:
Hmm. I can accept that you're focusing on Prom now, close to the lynch, but why did you totally ignore me earlier in the day after you made your case on me? Even though I responded to your case and questioned you about that? It just feels weird that you would drop any interest you had in your #1 scumread after making a new case. Were you even serious about that case on me?
My time is limited and I wanted to pursue some other reads. Prom's one ended up more fruitful. I really don't know how to get more specific than that - it's a playstyle thing.
wherebugsgo
I've already pointed out the numerous times he has made up reasons to switch off hopeless even though he agrees with Hapa's case. In the back and forth between us, I call out where he uses the Prom mislynch to push my lynch, which he has never addressed even though I requoted myself multiple times.
On January 16 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 16 2013 12:05 slOosh wrote:On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts.
One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad.
There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum.
I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town. This is scummy too and you have to read carefully so he doesn't pull a fast one on you. The first sentence says my push on Prom was pretty bad. Well if it was really clear that Prom was town, why didn't he care that he was being lynched? Why did he put no effort in taking people off the mislynch? In fact, MrZentor accused him from defending Prom, and WBG retorted with confidence he had never called Prom town. On January 15 2013 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? given that you haven't read the thread, this is a pretty empty accusation. Find an instance where I called Prom town. I can guarantee you that you will not find it even without going back into my filter. The only two players that I have really defended this game (if you can even call it that) are jay and super. On January 15 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does prom not care about getting lynched?
This whole thing bothers me No where does he ever explain his town read on Prom, nor did he indicate that he had one. But he wants to pin this mislynch on me, even though he did nothing at the time when it was happening. The second sentence is total WIFOM. Only scum know why they shot super, and an equally plausible explanation is that scum shot super in order to push a slOosh mislynch. It is a terrible reason to lynch someone as scum can use it for that exact reason. No actual reasons for lynching me. your push on Prom WAS bad. I left Prom alone because I wanted him to defend himself. I even said myself that I didn't plan on defending anyone. That's why I said it was bothersome that Prom wasn't defending himself. I found it strange in light of the fact that I had a town read of him-it made my confidence waver. The whole Zentor crap was simply me stopping him from misrepresenting my play. If I wanted to defend Prom I would have, but I wanted to see his response to the case, and I wanted to see what others would do without me stepping in. Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy?
He doesn't actually come to honest discussion but dismisses everything I say, calling it bad without actually showing why it is bad. My personality is very laid back / passive, so of course the impression that people seem to be taking away is WBG cornering a pressured slOosh. But if you honestly read the dialogue between us, it is like he set up his mind that I am scum before the bulk of the information came. He doesn't use the posts to draw conclusions, he already sets one up and proceeds to place all proceeding posts into that conclusion.
grush accurately points out that WBG has called near everyone scum at one point or another. You can see in his general playstyle that he calls everyone scum and then is free to pursue whatever he wants. It gives the illusion of scumhunting when in fact you don't see him making that many hard stances.
How town should proceed tomorrow
Keep WBG accountable for his reads. He stated that he agrees with Hapa that hopeless is scum. My flip doesn't change doesn't have any bearing on hopeless' alignment since the case is totally independent of that. He didn't do crap when Prom was getting lynched and I can guarantee tomorrow he is gonna find some reason to vote someone else, despite that the case still stands.
The people who view hopeless as town should hold him to an incredibly high standard because if he is town he has the unique perspective of knowing that it was a town vs town mislynch - and realize that as he doesn't really come up with much that he is scum.
Someone should definitely keep an eye out on Hapa. His questions are skewed, assuming a scummy interpretation, and it's pretty hard to point out / call. Like this post here: is it malicious or innocent interpretation? I'm not too sure but I had to correct him, and people started interpreting things how he did.
On January 13 2013 15:48 Hapahauli wrote:
Also SloOsh, is the reason you think supersoft is scum only because of association, or is there something else?
I don't like his case on MrZ, but I'm unsure if that's scum motivated or ignorant-townie motivated.
He defends MrZentor on pure meta even though he hasn't really done anything worth defending. If you need town meta to explain your scummy actions then you are playing wrong.
On that note grush and MrZentor need to be pressured, but after resolving the hopeless case.
I think that's all from me. I still think town can pull this off, just the townies need to get their act together and read into motives.
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On January 18 2013 08:35 jaybrundage wrote:I am assuming that one is his town play and one is his scum play. Which one is which
First is SK play, second is scum.
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Hopefully all the townies out there care about the lynch enough to bother reading stuff, if not now then at my flip.
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Do you even read my posts? I clearly state exactly why I didn't do exactly that.
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That's even worse. What town lacks is focus. Spitting out names doesn't do anything. It's clear that I think WBG and Hopeless are scum and that that is where town should proceed from.
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grush ... join me in glorious victory as I need us into an epic comeback
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Switch to lazer = slOosh gets lynched.
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Sigh thrawn ... we could have had amazing ...
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Oh well. Good luck town, make sure you read my will carefully. Can't wait to see what the ObsQT guys think.
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EPT
