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welcome to the gameNewbie Mini Mafia XXXIV - Page 43
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
welcome to the game | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Im fuckn scared of the TeMiL replacement.. TeMiL = town + Show Spoiler + if TeMiL replaced 2 scum : 4 town Day3 starts; 2 scum : 3 town = MYLO TeMiL = scum + Show Spoiler + if TeMiL replaced 2 scum : 4 town Day 3 starts; 2 scum : 3 town = MYLO Sylencia.. I am going to treat you as confirmed town. Your approach this game has been very pragmatic and consistent. [If you are scum.. fucking well done.. i tip my hat to you] zarepath.. Confirmed town Mocsta.. say what you want about me listing myself.. but I know I am town and I have been consistent in my play through the game. In hindsight I wish I asked more questions than pushed agenda.. but.. I made a decision based on the lack of discussion. Remaining players (jampidampi, OmniEulogy, Oatsmaster) The problem I have is.. with a confirmed cop There are 2 game setups (1 scum, 1RB; JK, Cop, 5 VT) or (2 scum ; JK, 6 VT) Oatsmaster is going to take at least 3 hrs to catch up; so we need jampidampi & OmniEulogy re-evaluted. I would focus first on OmniEulogy and whether he can be removed from the equation. I agree its a risk to just assume Sylencia and me are town.. But no matter what, we are in MYLO Day3.. We have to heed Spags words and take a risk @zarepath; you did solid research of Spags play.. may I ask you do the same for OmniEulogy. Sylencia already built a case (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=36#706) I would like your thoughts on this. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9640 Posts
On January 08 2013 09:50 iamperfection wrote: Oatsmaster Replaces Temil effective right.................Now Oatsmaster is ineligible for this game the search will continue | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
anyways You admitted yesterday, the case on jampidampi was full of statements that were brought together using assumptions (potentially biased). jampidampi only additional contribution was to make case 2.0 on me.... do you see merit in upgrading your jampi case to 2.0, and removing any confirmation bias? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
if TeMiL NOT replaced 2 scum : 3 town Day3 starts; 2 scum : 2 town = Insta loss TeMiL = scum if TeMiL replaced 1 scum : 4 town Day 3 starts; 1 scum : 3 town = MYLO Mod.. if my maths are right, if TeMiL was town and we can't find a replacement, the game is over... (1) is there a deadline to find a replacement & (2) if there is a deadline (say 12hrs for example).. and there is no replacement, and TeMiL was town, can we just end the game prematurely? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9640 Posts
Town wins when there are no more scum. Scum wins when they outnumber town or nothing can prevent this from happening. When either one happens we will let everyone know The deadline for the replacement is the day post. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I personally have read through the filters of Sylencia and OmniEulogy and come to a conclusion. I will prob pop back into the thread in 8hrs, hopefully there will be people to discuss this further. | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:04 OmniEulogy wrote: I must admit I've played with the idea of Mocsta being scum all game long. When he started making those posts on how to scum hunt ect. I was extremely uncomfortable but I had the same feeling from him in XXXIII it was just this time with no Aqua to push for the lynch Mocsta made the case himself so the feeling I had was a bit worse. I've constantly wondered if I were being manipulated by Mocsta and if everybody was being fooled by his treatment to us. He is playing the type of scum game I would attempt. At the same time he is playing the town game I would have liked to if I wasn't so passive-aggressive. I do have a few problems with your case "Mocsta is trying to make others think for him. Asking others to do something for you is scummy." but in his case you say "Overall, he has no contributions to speak of and some of his plays are scummy." Overall I think I would find your case more compelling if it weren't riddled with lies or hypocrisy. If what you say, and what I fear is true, and Mocsta is scum, this case has not convinced me. The only thing that might save you today from my vote is if Mocsta believes his read on Spag is strong enough to justify changing the vote. Otherwise my vote will be staying on you. One other thing that might save you is if you can claim JK and prove that you were the one who RB'd me. (I assume it was town as mafia RB just does NOT make sense on me.) Would you please address the points you think are false specifically? As for my actions on Mocsta, I tried to put myself in the shoes of a town Mocsta, but did not find reasons as to why he would not answear my question. If Mocsta had made some fair points as to what flipped his opinion on you, I would propably not have though of him as scum. Are you saying that my case on Mocsta is poor because my case on StriX was weak? | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 08 2013 14:25 jampidampi wrote: (1)As for my actions on Mocsta, I tried to put myself in the shoes of a town Mocsta, but did not find reasons as to why he would not answear my question. (2)If Mocsta had made some fair points as to what flipped his opinion on you, I would propably not have though of him as scum. (1) I didn't answer because you are not in a position to be questioning others.. It is you who needs to be answering questions. If you need.. i can search for multiple questions directed at you, none of which you have answered in recent times. The most recent, being from Sylencia. (2) I have my thoughts on OmniEulogy; and plan to share later, when others are on the forum. Again, I do not think with your current town credibility, you are in a position to demand answers to your questions; in particular when you do not answer questions directed at you. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
only reason i asked was.. Omni was 50/50 to spag. So his 3 choices for mafia were based on (jampi, temil, OE). OE could be cleared if JK opened his mouth.. but i assume.. they would wait till Day3 to say anything (otherwise will be shot night 2). This is all assuming we get a replacement for TeMiL... if TeMiL is town and no replacement.. the game is over | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
On January 08 2013 02:28 OmniEulogy wrote: That isn't even my first post.My case on Jampi I'll start off with his very first post and my thoughts behind it + Show Spoiler + jampidampi Finland. January 03 2013 22:46. Posts 42 PM Profile Report Quote # filter + Show Spoiler + I don't think we can call anyone a lurker yet. It has been only 12 hours since the game started, and no analysis/cases have been posted. Once we get a case rolling, be it a scum or town read, we can get discussion and opinions. The only action so far is Mocstas vote for cDgcorazon based on metaread from the one game he played earlier. I'm reading through Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII to get an idea the meta of others. Expect some analysis in while. As to why you shouldn't lynch the current me: I prefer only to post if it has a meaning. Answearing questing and asking them. Sharing my reads on someone. Unnecessary spam just clutters the thread and hides important post. StriX is certainly a person worth questioning. Using your own newbines as an argument is usually associated with being scum, not to mention he hasn't posted much. He has no contributions to speak of. So StriX: - Who are analysing/suspecting? - Do you have any prior mafia experience outside TL? @All Keep the spam like weather updates out of this thread. It only helps the mafia. He has certaintly stayed true to his posting policy, the problem being that almost nothing he has posted has had any strong content or have much of a meaning. He soft claims newbie in his first post saying "this is my first time playing forum mafia..." and then in his next post hits StriX with suspicion for doing the exact same thing. This early in the game I would also mention that creating a friendly town atmosphere with a few mindless comments about the weather is only threatening to scum. They don't want a love-fest among the townies and at best the weather comment was neutral and wasn't going anywhere. It seems odd to be so opposed to it so early in the game. He follows with + Show Spoiler + Which you don't even analyse. Why mention if you don't analyse it?On January 04 2013 16:26 jampidampi wrote: The OP provided the role PMs for each role. In the scum role PMs there is a direct link to the scum QT. Anyone rational would at least check out the link and post there once to get commucating between his scumpartner going. After all, mafias greatests strength is their information and the possibility of communication. It was a post of me sharing my weak town reads. I asked the coaches if I should share weak reads, but since they were slow to answear and I was impatient, I went ahead and posted it (they said I shouldn't share weak town reads). It may help others when considering who to scumhunt. I do agree that the post lacks some quality. I will write my suspicions of/questions to StriX in a separate post to make it more clear. Zarepath may just have a little bit of tunnel vision. It's good that he's bringing those points up, but I'm statisfied with the answears Sylencia gave. I have bolded what I would like to be read but feel free to go over all of it in case I've misinterpreted it. After he says he released a bunch of weak town reads and that he was told he shouldn't do that he posts this + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 17:19 jampidampi wrote: After examing StriX filter, he feels scummy. + Show Spoiler + In his first post he is only agreeing with others and repeating what others already said about the summary plan. Second post is just policy talk without actually bringing anthing new to the table. A short post just answearing a question. On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote: A bare minimun response to the question.1. Doesn't seem logical to do that so no. As you can deal with a lying or lurking town with less punishment than .5?-1 death/night. 2. No ideas yet honestly - still getting the hang of who is who. Seems like coming up with a excuse not to contribute.3. Zarepath at the moment - mainly due to his policy on no lynch. Town environment can be improved and giving a lynch which could potentially be a free scum kill away seems too steep a price to pay. Accusing someone based on a nolynch policy is an easy thing to do. Next three posts are him answearing my questions about the game he played earlier. After that he takes back his suspicions of zarepath stating that Rationalizing no-lynch is nothing by itself. even though most would agree it's a scummy moveOn January 04 2013 14:24 StriX wrote: Again, bare minimum response.+ Show Spoiler + (1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share (2) You said zarepath is your lead suspect. With the information zarepath has presented since Session 2. What are your revised thoughts? If still a target, I suggest you demonstrate your conviction with a vote; otherwise, begin to identify alternative candidates. 1. I'm starting to yes. 2. Feel like we're going a bit easy on TeMiL and I'd like to vote to lynch him right now. I delayed my vote due to suspecting lurking was due to timezone issues, however, I feel like we've given him long enough to contribute. He is also the only one to not respond to Mocsta's first set of questions. Targetting the easiest player to target: a lyrker with no contrinutions.As an idea Mocsta could you may ##Vote TeMil After that he claims to have contributed with an argument that he later took back. Then he posts his reads/views on everyone without actually giving any reasonings. On January 04 2013 15:27 StriX wrote: Defends letting go of zarepaths pressure with a different playstyle.Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style. I guess we have different definitions of top scum reads as I really don't feel supporting no lynch is one. Perhaps in a high level (it'd probably be a meta play there actually) game but not in newbie mafia. I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself. Acknowledges that so far all his actions have been because Mocsta requested him to act.In his last post he defends his vote on TeMiL with some previous game he played. Overall, he has no contributions to speak of and some of his plays are scummy. ##Vote StriX His case on StriX. Which I believe he admits to being weak later. "My case on StriX may be "weak" but nothing to me suggest that a better case can made for now." There are quotation marks there for a reason. I did not believe my case was weak. In fact, if you look at your case on Strix you can see that you only have one point that I didn't have in my case. How is your case any stronger?He then has his brief dispute with Cora, I tried to think of this from both perspectives and from a scum point of view I believe Cora who has been making great observations all game, and is giving a potential scum player a very hard time while making logical arguments and defending other townies from cases using the same deduction would seem extremely dangerous. I know people have complained that this is me reading too far into things but it is still a factor and should be taken into consideration. the obs QT in NMM XXXIII briefly mentioned my NK when I was pressuring Cora and made a case on FC in the process even though Mocsta was clearly the strongest town. From the scum QT's I've read they always look closest at townies who are the biggest threat and the closest to exposing them for the NK N1. Only scum know excatly why a NK is made. As Spag points out, if all NK where targetted towards players suspicious of actuall scum, this game would be way easier. Then we have + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 19:12 jampidampi wrote: I will try to gather here the big events of D1 leading to the misslynch of StriX.
@Spaghetticus You seems to have acted in a way that would allow to you to jump on any bandwagon on a lurker without atracting too much atention. I will go through your filter later today, but so far you seems very suspicious. And this seems scummy. Not giving information away is suspicious. Could you straight up tell me why you voted on StriX? @Mocsta You seem very sure that StriX would flip town. Would you mind giving your reasonings to this? Did you have a townread on him and what in his play made him look like town to you? @zarepath Yet we never saw that. Care to explain? which was prompted by Mocsta I believe. This entire post has essentially no meaning. It's one large summary and the questions at the end are mediocre at best and easy to come up with. There is no new information in the entire post. This is when I began to seriously look at Jampi as possible scum. He has still up to this point failed to contribute largely to any scum hunt, and the case he admits was weak was made on a confirmed town at this point. If he knew StriX was town it would explain why he didn't push more for his lynch but instead sat back and did not contribute and let us lynch him, as I've said previously. He even tries to say after StriX lynch that I look the most suspicious for making my case on him and pushing for his lynch when he voted for the same target first. Where do I state this? This blew my mind. He has done nothing up to this point. Has said I was suspicious, and AGAIN tries to force Mocsta of all people to continue to make cases on me. Did he even read Mocsta's case on me? (Mocsta's case was made before this) It's almost like he doesn't have an opinion on it, or he doesn't care. He said he like to share his opinions on people. Holy shit here's a prime opportunity to say anything he wants about me and he tries to push it onto Mocsta? Scum behavior. Massive scum read on him from this post. This has made him my #1 scum read at this point. Then we get into the JK/RB debate and the only thing he is really talking about is which set-up we might have. He never goes into detail and only corrects Syl on which roles are in which scenario. He continues to push Mocsta for his opinion on me and whether or not he thinks I am still scum. Usually when someone answears your question with something like not having enough time, you bring the question back later. At this point I'd really hope Jampi would have his own opinion on me. FFS I even told him I would welcome any questions he had on me but he says nothing. He then tries to accuse Mocsta as being scum, I'm not against somebody trying to do this, I think Mocsta could pull it off and we'd be screwed in a newbie game but the way he does it... I did not have a strong opinion on you at that time."I urge everyone to go through Mocstas filter and re-evaluate, if his truly is town. His only big contributions are the cases on Omni and TeMiL, which reek of utter bullshit. Other than that he has just been leading the town to the direction he wants with his questions." - Jampi If you don't agree with the points I made on Mocsta case on you, why not address these points specifically? Why is his case on me Bullshit? I didn't agree with a lot of it and I think most of it was personal opinion with very little facts but I have the advantage of knowing I'm town. YOU(jampi) Do not. YOU(jampi) Have claimed I was suspicious and should be looked at thoroughly and have said absolutely nothing to take that opinion back. He then promises a larger case on Mocsta and here we are. He hasn't posted a single thing after that. He has no motivation to help town and quite honestly hasn't tried to help town at all this game. He has not followed up on what he claimed he was good at in his first post. Some of these arguments are weak and some are my personal view on things but there are many facts in how he has played that make him seem like mafia. This is why I said he is easily my choice for lynch tonight. Sorry Syl I didn't explain myself out thoroughly and that is my fault. I hope this helps you see how I have come to this conclusion. My case on Mocsta took me really long to make. Addressing almost every post a player has made is not something you do in an hour.On January 08 2013 01:03 Sylencia wrote: I have bolded some parts of my orginal post where I say that a JK targetting Omni would not make sense.So basically, for jampi, I already did him for Day 1, so adding to it for day 2: This is attempted analysis, but it doesn't say anything at all. Doesn't state if he thinks it's a RB or JK, it's just statements which could have been drawn pretty easily by anyone. The case on Mocsta is the only other big post on day 2, it's not really a solid case either. It honestly rates about the same level as Strix's case he posted which I said was weak on Day 1 as well. Mocsta had asked for comments on his case on Omni. While reading through it with care I noticed that Mocsta had fabricated some of the evidence in his case. Posting some thoughs on it would help Mocsta then give his opinion on them. But after reading through it again before posting, I became very suspicious. I checked his filter and it confirmed my suspicions. I decided to post it to see his response. Voting on him then and there just made the reactions more extreme. And as I stated in post, I had to leave after posting. Jampi, you're flying under the radar more than pretty much anyone here. Are you following your own advice or are you just playing badly? Some may say I'm playing badly, some may say that I'm not interested in the game, some may say I'm a passive player, some may say I'm afraid to post, some may I have a real life. But I don't think my actual answear matters to you, as you can just pass it as an excuse for not contributing. @Mocsta: Now that I have answeared all the question, it is your turn. Answear me. You claim that my case for you is weak, if this is true, then go ahead and rip it apart. I bet you cannot actually do that. | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
@Mocsta: ... If you are actually town, this does not hurt you at all. @Everyone else: You too can look through my case on Mocsta, and then either rip it apart or join to pressure Mocsta. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
just woke up.. look.. theres 2 hrs to the deadline, and so far, no replacement. if town surives into day3, and im alive, i will answer you. but, dont even know if the game will continue.. so.. im not going to bother with 2 hrs left. look, thanks for donig a post-by-post of me, im sure it would have taken a while... prob was a waste of time in the end, but what can ya do. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
hey guys.. i don't think a town player would have been so tunnel minded as jampidampi during the Day 2/Night 2 events.. so its obvious he is scum... if somehow this game till goes on, might as when vote him out Day2. [There were some major events happening Day 2, and he did not contribute at all, instead, claiming to spend the whole day making a case on me.. thats real effective scum hunting right there...) I have my thoughts on between Omni/TeMiL.. but dont want to bulid association cases.. so.. take out jampi first... then if a JK can step up, I guess Omni is innocent, and if a JK doesn't step up.. Omni will need to be scrutinised.. Good luck. | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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