EPTYet Another Normal Mini Mafia - Page 38
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iamperfection
United States9641 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 22 2012 15:01 Promethelax wrote: His lack of content. His only true contribution has been a big ole case on palmar that was a very safe case since no one on TL will allow a Palmar lynch d1 (DeathNote not withstanding). Eywa came in with roleplaying and a no-lynch plan, followed it up with a useless case and followed that up with a >24hour vanishing act. There is nothing in his filter (excluding one case, that if he was scum he knew wasn't going anywhere) to suggest a townie. Yes this is all true but I'm more interested in your thoughts on his case, since that would be the obvious post to analyse for actual mafia motive. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Do you disagree? Why? | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 22 2012 14:47 Promethelax wrote: I have no issue with the debears lynch, the guy hasn't been playing like the town Dibbers whom we all know and love. However I'm also deeply concerned about Eywa- a guy who did nothing and followed that up by vanishing, its been more than 24 hours without a post from him and though we can't talk about his activity in other games his activity in this one is well worth a vote, in fact it is so worth a vote that ## Vote: Eywa- Now, Debears, you know that building a case on the guys you think are scum will help you more than just calling them scum and ragequittng, yes? good. Now make a case. An updated one. Morb, sorry you think I'm dumb. Doing what I do best. If you want to check my past games feel free to check my profile, they are all there. My own self evaluation would put me as a middle of the pack player whose strengths lay towards proving himself townie over finding scum. Others may disagree. Palmar, its been too long since any meaningful contribution from you. Who should we lynch today and why? Imp, after Dibbers who do you want to lynch the most? Who are your other scum reads and why? I have made cases on both. Check my big post of reads in the night. How hard is it to read? No one, and I mean no one at all, has pointed out specifically how I am wrong in my Iamp and Mord cases. Their responses have contained "you're bad", "you're wrong", "you're scum" without actually quoting a single fucking part of my cases | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 22 2012 11:15 yamato77 wrote: ##Vote Debears It's not worth it for me to go after Prome today. How the fuck am I supposed to refute this vote? See how you guys who i believe are town aren't even giving me a fucking chance to fight? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:33 sciberbia wrote: I'm still thinking scum on debears and I think we should seriously consider lynching him tomorrow. I'm just going to summarise my points from yesterday: 1) - He asked tough questions to Vivax and iamperfection but then he was satisfied by their non-answers 2) - He told me that he was laying a trap but there was no trap 3) - He tunneled Toad about something that IMO is clearly not much of a scumtell (Toad being lazy) Since then, I have grown even more suspicious of debears: 4) Approach to the Wiggles lynch debears's approach to the Wiggles lynch seriously bothers me. He stated that he opposed the Wiggles lynch, but he did almost nothing to fight it. Not only does debears say he prefers other targets, but he states that he has a town-read on Wiggles. 5) Now I am told that debears is a smart, good townie. If a good townie has a town-read on the person getting lynched, I expect them to: 1) defend their town-read 2) suggest an alternate candidate 3) argue why the alternate candidate is more likely scum Debears does none of these things. He does not defend Wiggles beyond that one line about Wiggles's "activity and fighting against sheeps". This suggests to me that he knew Wiggles would flip red, and didn't want to do too much defending because it would look bad. 6) Secondly, debears does vote zelblade, but he doesn't really try to persuade anyone else to vote zelblade. I don't think he even said why he thinks zelblade is scum. Thirdly, he spent most of his time arguing that Toad and iamperfection are scum, even though neither of them was in contention for lynching yesterday. 7) Not only was he not fighting the lynch, but he was spending his time writing a case on iamperfection that he did not even present until after the Wiggles flip. Overall, I find it hard to believe that a town debears would do so little to oppose a lynch that he supposedly thought was bad. Right now, debears is my top lynch candidate for tomorrow by a good margin. 1) Since when did iamp not answer me? I believe you mean stutters. My response to you is what is the use of keeping asking the same question to lurkers while they lurk? It takes forever to get a response (if they answer). Why wouldn't I go after the more active, veteran players, whom I need to see who is best to trust? When I see a scummy looking vet player, I will go after them to determine a good read. Otherwise, I can follow them into an easy d1 mislynch. 2) There was a trap and you are refusing to see it. The trap was to see who would misrepresent my actions in mario mini in terms of the kenpachi rule. Once I saw people blindly misinterpret my words without looking at the game I mentioned in thread, I decided it would be best to see who would keep making the argument without looking at my game. A townies job is to investigate previous games when they have specific relevance to a certain situation, especially when that situation is mentioned in thread. I figured scum would bite at going at me for something like that. You ruined it when you told everyone "hey, he meant he doubted a vt claim in mario since I checked" 3) I didn't know it was Toad's policy to "never read old games" even when they have specific relevance to this game. That's just bad town play on his part. That, combined with him purposely not mentioning Chrono, and making me go through his profile for it and wasting my time, is anti-town. It's time I could have spent on making reads in this game. It was a simple fucking request, and he refused to give me an answer with a game that finished less than a week ago. 4) My actions during the Wiggles lynch should be easy to interpret if you look at the context Here's the context for you: 1. I had pushed Toad and Iamp, both of whom I was pretty convinced were scum. No one agreed with me. I ended up having to make a gut read on someone who I hadn't focused on d1. 2. Because of how people disagreed, I had (and still have) no town cred. So, based on this, you are saying I soft defended my scummate d1 even when I had zero town cred? without any help from my 3rd scummate? That is dumb. I'm not that bad at mafia 3. Toad was voting Wiggles. Iamp switched off of "Wiggles is idiot town" to "I'm down to lynch wiggles". Note that I found them scummy as shit. Why would I vote with them? 4) Wiggles' lynch was unopposed. Day 1 unopposed lynchs are usually townie lynches, especially when people sheep with no original reasoning. I assumed the mafia would be stronger than they are. I was wrong. The mafia this game is weak and doesn't defend their scummate d1. 5) My town read on wiggles is from that last point right above this. It's not a fullproof read. Also, you're basing this scumread on what you have heard from others about the quality of my play You are not basing this on your own evaluation of my play. You have not read my games. You have not seen where I make mistakes. You don't know how I play. It's dumb for you to use that without looking yourself. 6) How hard is it to say why zelblade was scummy d1? He lurked, he repeated points already said in thread, he didn't give a shit about the town. Enough said. If that wasn't obvious at all then idk what you were looking at d1 7) Again, I had zero town cred. Iamp was obviously not getting lynched at that point. Might as well keep the focus on the possible lynch candidates, which were wiggles and the darkhorse in zelblade. And, I didn't have time to sit down and write it. What say you, MTV scribs? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 22 2012 15:54 debears wrote: How the fuck am I supposed to refute this vote? See how you guys who i believe are town aren't even giving me a fucking chance to fight? Check my filter for the times I've mentioned you. This is not town debears I'm reading. You're not this bad. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 22 2012 15:08 Promethelax wrote: My thoughts on his case are very simple: it was a safe case to make, if he was scum with a Wiggles scum buddy Wiggles knows how TL mafia works and could tell him that Palmar is two things 1) easy to make a case on and 2)impossible to lynch d1. A great way to buy yourself town cred. Now it from a townie point of view Eywa noticed Palmar beign Palmar and, not knowing the guy, made a totally reasonable case on him. Those are your options and its easy for me to see either occurring but coupled with the rest of Eywa-'s behavior I see him as scummier rather than townier. Do you disagree? Why? At this point I'm more inclined to say he's bad But more on the case. What exactly do you think was reasonable? Because all I saw was a bunch of confirmation bias. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:34 sciberbia wrote: I'm thinking town on Morbidius and I strongly disagree with the idea of lynching him tomorrow. I read through his filter from Witchcraft Mini where he was a VT, and he had a similar posting style to this game: a little bit lurky with a lot of short posts. From this meta, his play this game, and his small post count, I can conclude that he is neither an experienced player nor an "overconfident asshole". So if he were scum, I would expect him to play scared, noncommittal, wishy/washy, etc. 1) On the contrary, his posts all read as blunt and completely unafraid. Completely unafraid early in the game First look at his intreaction with yamato at the beginning of the game: + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 09:21 Morbidius wrote: That was quick, self aware millers should make this game interesting. On December 19 2012 09:24 Morbidius wrote: Wtf, why would you ask if millers are self aware if you just claimed miller 1 post ago? On December 19 2012 14:52 Morbidius wrote: Was just trying to get a reaction from him and maybe get some discussion going. I don't think that was a scumslip nor do i have a case against him. He immediately calls out yamato for yamato's apparent contradiction, and claims that it was a scumslip. That statement is likely to draw retaliation from yamato and attention from all the other players. I don't think Morbidius would be trying to stir up shit so early in the game (or ever) as scum. Then, as Palmar pointed out, he backs down from it in a completely calm manner. 2) This post in particular struck me as townie: + Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 12:16 Morbidius wrote: Oh boy its quiet in here. This was about three hours into the game, when nobody had posted anything for an hour. This post calls attention to the fact that Morbidius is online, looking at the thread, and not actually doing anything. It is an invitation for someone to discuss something with him. It's not a move I would expect from scum, who would like any excuse not to post. I'd expect a scum Morbidius to be playing much more scared. 3) his vote on bugs Bugs thought that Morbidius's vote on him was the scummiest thing in the world, but I disagree. I don't see the scum motivation for Morbidius voting bugs. Due to his veteran status, I don't think bugs had any chance of actually being lynched yesterday. So I think it would be a silly move for scum Morbidius to provoke the wrath of bugs when bugs isn't going to get lynched anyway. Also, I don't think it's scummy that Morbidius didn't post his case. If he were scum, I think that he would have waited until he had time to write a case before making a vote with no explanation (since he will catch flak for it). I think the most likely explanation is that Morbidius is town, thought bugs was scum early on, but then slowly changed his mind and so never bothered making a case, as is supported by these quotes: + Show Spoiler + On December 20 2012 01:49 Morbidius wrote: ##vote wherebugsgo Will post more on it later, am a bit busy at the moment but i promise to post more reasoning. Even so this is day 1 where scum reads are at their weakest. On December 21 2012 02:25 Morbidius wrote: I don't like the zelblade lynch because i don't trust wbg and wiggles , pushing for a lynch along with my scumreads would be silly even tho there isn't one thing that says town about zel. WBG play has been stupid so far and i don't agree with him on most of his points but i am willing to take part on a MR.Wiggles lynch. On December 21 2012 03:12 Morbidius wrote: I'm way more confident in a wiggles lynch right now his posts have been very scummy while my suspicion over my other reads have weakened. He has been shooting accusations at everyone and hoping one of them works. Also his ''case'' on palmar is the dumbest thing i've read so far. ##unvote ##vote Mr. Wiggles On December 21 2012 11:01 Morbidius wrote: Some thoughts so far: Problably town: Sciberbia Palmar leaning town: Yamato Vivax WBG Leaning scum: Stutters Debears I need more time to make reads on the ones i didn't mention. 4) Vote on Wiggles I think you guys are making too big of a deal out of the exact timing of Morbidius's vote. Even before Toad and I had voted, he had made it clear that he was strongly leaning toward voting Wiggles: + Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 01:21 Morbidius wrote: Vote count please? I got a slightly scum vibe from Wiggles and i do think a day 1 lynch is better than no lynch. On December 21 2012 02:25 Morbidius wrote: I don't like the zelblade lynch because i don't trust wbg and wiggles , pushing for a lynch along with my scumreads would be silly even tho there isn't one thing that says town about zel. WBG play has been stupid so far and i don't agree with him on most of his points but i am willing to take part on a MR.Wiggles lynch. I can easily see townie explanations as to why he didn't vote earlier. Maybe he was still thinking about Wiggles and reading over his filter. Maybe he was looking at other options (hence why he asked for a vote count). Maybe something that Toad or I said in our posts helped to convince him. I just don't see what the big deal is. And I think you should give him a townie point for actually voting for the scum. He was the 5th vote for a scum in a 13 player game. In conclusion, I am actually reasonably confident that Morbidius is town and I don't think we should lynch him tomorrow. 1) How many of those posts are hard to make as scum? absolutely zero of them. They are during the very beginning of the game. They are one liners based around a miller claim. Causing shit early day 1 is easy for scum, since it gets overlooked easily later. I have done this twice with great success as scum. Those posts, if anything, should be a null read. 2) How can you use this post saying "scum don't want to talk". That's the easiest post in the world to make as scum. "Hey guys no ones talking. I'm just here saying that since I have nothing to add right now. But hey, look, I'm trying to get discussion going with this statement". Null read. 3) This is a huge misconception. This can be scum or town motivated so easily. What's the key here that you said? "bugs didn't have any chance to get lynched" Isn't that the best thing for mafia? If you go after a guy you know isn't getting lynched, it gives you a free pass for most of the day. The townies say "oh look at him scumhunt" when he knows that WBG isn't getting lynched. I have gone after the players I have considered the best in that game when I was scum. I didn't have to make super convincing fake cases for a majority of the day 4) He had repeated multiple times "Wiggles is scummy guise", yet refused to vote him. Finally, when two others vote to make the vote count four, he immediately votes for Wiggles. That makes no sense from a town perspective. Multiple people had said "hey, I'm suspicious of Wiggles". Why did he need those extra votes to vote for Wiggles town - so he doesn't look scummy?????????? That doesn't make sense, since multiple people shared his suspicions because he's not confident wiggles is scum????? That doens't make sense, since he said multiple times wiggles is scummy. When you say someone is scummy multiple times, you are confident they are scummy. mafia - because wiggles is his scummate. He wants to gain town cred for bussing when it becomes clear that wiggles is going to be the most likely lynch You are trying to give major town cred to a 5th vote on a d1 scum when we know for a fact that the mafia is weak and did not defend wiggles. We know wiggles is the godfather. And his lynch went pretty much unopposed. Scum had to have bussed him | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 21 2012 10:01 yamato77 wrote: Eywa is either dumb or scum. don't know which. debears is the lynch tomorrow On December 21 2012 10:21 yamato77 wrote: Unless you come out tomorrow dyed in green from head to toe I am lynching you. Will make a case later. On December 21 2012 15:20 yamato77 wrote: Now you're just lying. I never said you should be shot. I said you should hang. I want to see who defends you like you defended wiggles. You're nearly confirmed town yamato. And you're pulling this shit on me | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 22 2012 16:27 yamato77 wrote: Check my filter for the times I've mentioned you. This is not town debears I'm reading. You're not this bad. EBWOP last post in reference to this | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 22 2012 16:33 debears wrote: You're nearly confirmed town yamato. And you're pulling this shit on me Not today. Yesterday. I made some meta observations based on things YOU told me. Also it is really easy to agree with iamp that a lot of what you've done this game looks like OMGUS. Find a real scum. You pushed Toad day 1 and now he flipped town. Today you're pushing morbidius, who I do not read scum. Your arguments are not convincing and nothing you've posted feels like the truth. I feel like you're not even trying and that's not the debears I know. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 22 2012 16:37 yamato77 wrote: Not today. Yesterday. I made some meta observations based on things YOU told me. Also it is really easy to agree with iamp that a lot of what you've done this game looks like OMGUS. Find a real scum. You pushed Toad day 1 and now he flipped town. Today you're pushing morbidius, who I do not read scum. Your arguments are not convincing and nothing you've posted feels like the truth. I feel like you're not even trying and that's not the debears I know. Are you fucking serious?????????? Do you not see the fucking length of posts I'm putting down? How the fuck am I not trying? Me and you are going to have a talk after this game. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
I have a 5 pg filter. You have a 4 page filter. You're longest posts come no where near the length of my long ones. Figure it out | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Let's do it right today. ##vote Morbidius | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 22 2012 16:46 debears wrote: btw yamato I have a 5 pg filter. You have a 4 page filter. You're longest posts come no where near the length of my long ones. Figure it out I don't know dude. I don't think town debears is this emotional. You seem really upset but town debears always reads cool and collected. If you're town I don't see it. You insist iamp is scum but he's more believable than you. Like I said, find a scum I can believe is real. If you want to live you need to act less like an offended child and more like a calculated scumhunter. I know this is totally hypocritical coming from me given my past but you have a lot to prove before I'll move my vote off you. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
There are a few things to note. One, Morbidius used Toad's flip to put suspicion on debears. That's something town like to do. Secondly, only a really bad scum team would shoot Toad, or Toad was right about something (or a combination of both). Toad listed morbidius, Vivax, and stutters as probable scum. I'll be looking into those players (as well as promethelax and eywa) today. For now I think morbidius has the strongest chance to flip scum. | ||
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