EPTJust to make this clear: if you have been roleblocked you should say so. We gain more from you revealing this than hiding it.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII - Page 39
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
Just to make this clear: if you have been roleblocked you should say so. We gain more from you revealing this than hiding it. | ||
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Orangeremi
United States94 Posts
On December 22 2012 06:49 Aquanim wrote: @Orangeremi: What did you think of Spaghetticus' defence to my case? I wasn't swayed either way by it. Your case was a tough one to argue and he tried. I don't feel like he succeeded. When he answered my question about his defense it seemed to me even fluffier as well. At this point I think it's fairly obvious, unfortunately I woke up too late to detail a case myself. Most everything that could've been said about him has been. It will take a fair deal of convincing for me to change my mind before Day's end. ##Vote: OmniEulogy | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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Orangeremi
United States94 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 22 2012 10:46 cakepie wrote: Wait; one second. Would a jailkeeper action result in a roleblocked notification? On December 22 2012 10:47 Dandel Ion wrote: Yes. Please confirm my understanding: because jailkeeper has priority over night KP, the jailkeep action will go through first, and will continue to apply despite death of the jailkeeper by KP (resolved later) In which case, what I said here: On December 22 2012 09:08 cakepie wrote: I was roleblocked. With Mocsta's flip I feel that it is thus more likely that this comes from Robert Bellarmine (scum RB) than Martin Luther (town RB) may not be correct, as now that I have gone over mocsta's post it seems he certainly could have reasons to want to jail me for the night. ----- Also a quick note for those thinking about possible SK: not compulsive kill in this setup You can kill one person every night, but you don't have to. In my opinion, there is very little at the moment to suggest if there Descartes is in the game or not, and I do not feel that we should devote too much energy into figuring that out just yet. ----- Self-reflection: When considering motives while thinking through the possibilities, I may have looked too hard for scum acting the busy townie, and assumed blues would be keeping low. I failed to give enough credence to the possibility of a cautiously active blue role, which is how Mocsta turned out to be playing. ----- I was really concerned about the lack of scrutiny on myself throughout D1, and it does not help that when something as finally brought up, it had to come from a dead man's mouth. Corazon, OrangeRemi, Aquanim and maybe sylencia seem to be around atm. What is your take on Mocsta's read on me? Anyhow, I'm going to stick around in the thread for a bit now while I toss around all the possibilities in my mind. Feel free to ask for my thoughts on anything. | ||
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Orangeremi
United States94 Posts
I've got my eye on FC, but want to hold off on further judgements until I see him post this Day I'm also waiting on more from Kickstart, I'm wary of how he's playing this game as opposed to his last one. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 22 2012 13:26 Orangeremi wrote: I don't like how Threesr is playing if he's town. He's helping very little and I could see him playing a reverse psychological scum the way he is acting. I've got my eye on FC, but want to hold off on further judgements until I see him post this Day I'm also waiting on more from Kickstart, I'm wary of how he's playing this game as opposed to his last one. Could you go into a bit more depth? Any posts that indicate these behaviors to you? | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Mocsta: I am hoping the links between cakepie, and definite mafia (OmniEulogy & Chromatically) is enough to seal the deal. In the end, he has another 5 or 6 posts. Most of it is junk. Says a bunch of crap about his night philosphy posting. which conveniently promotes no activity, so town start day 2 with no knowledge. Again why I am posting this huge text. Basically, he is stating that many of your posts have been fluff, you have only handed out questions to players, and have come under little fire, even when your posts have not had the biggest reason. That and the fact that you have sheeped off of the other two proposed Mafia members what Mocsta has put forward How do you feel about it? That is what I would like to hear from you. Then I can make a judgement call on how right I believe Mocsta is. Right now, it seems like the two scum that Mocsta proposed have all tried to disassociate themselves from each other. Are you standing by how you jumped on the Spag lynch train? Or are you thinking on your own? | ||
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Orangeremi
United States94 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On December 22 2012 13:18 cakepie wrote: ... Also a quick note for those thinking about possible SK: not compulsive kill in this setup In my opinion, there is very little at the moment to suggest if there Descartes is in the game or not, and I do not feel that we should devote too much energy into figuring that out just yet. ... This is definitely true. It's almost not in the town's best interest to search for SK earlygame, I think, for two reasons:
If town gets into a comfortable position, having lynched all or all but one of the mafia, then we start thinking about looking for an SK. Before that it's not a constructive use of our time. I was really concerned about the lack of scrutiny on myself throughout D1, and it does not help that when something as finally brought up, it had to come from a dead man's mouth. Corazon, OrangeRemi, Aquanim and maybe sylencia seem to be around atm. What is your take on Mocsta's read on me? Anyhow, I'm going to stick around in the thread for a bit now while I toss around all the possibilities in my mind. Feel free to ask for my thoughts on anything. IMO you didn't draw much scrutiny day 1 because of the sheer size of your posts. They were pretty imposing and contained enough worthwhile content that you didn't draw anyone's attention. I didn't and don't have much of a town read on you, but I think that the idea that you and Chromatic are both scum is a little hard to swallow. The two of you, Mocsta and myself accounted for a fair proportion of day 1's constructive and probing posts. Either or both of you could have contributed a lot less without standing out, and a lot less would have got done day 1 as a result. I know from my own experience it's very easy to suspect those leading the thread as scum with a mastermind plot, and very occasionally perhaps some of them are - but far more often scum are just blending in with the crowd. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 22 2012 13:45 cDgCorazon wrote: Basically, he is stating that many of your posts have been fluff, Because my RL schedule dictated that I could not be ever-present in the thread over the past few days, I costantly found myself being "scooped" in terms of arguments that could be made and evidence that could be presented. I tried to make up for it by playing hard and putting effort into writing carefully and in detail as time allowed. I am dismayed, and think it is unfortunate that he considered my post length to be lots of fluff padding. ===== On December 22 2012 13:45 cDgCorazon wrote: you have only handed out questions to players, and have come under little fire True, but I would urge you not to take my questioning at face value only. Clearly, I must seek something by choosing to target and pressure specific people. What does that imply about my read on them at that time? For instance, with Mocsta I wanted to believe he was town, but kept getting thrown off by the way he posted and the kind of questions he asked, hence I posted to obtain a reaction that I could gauge. (more on that below) With several cases, I wanted to get people to start talking, or talking more -- even if just in general, because I didn't have enough to start making a firm read on them yet. I did not feel comfortable about the lack of scrutiny on myself, you might note that I even specifically asked for reads on myself! But it looked like people were pretty okay with what I was doing -- no one complained that I lacked in substance, and I was initially glad that my bursty availability in the game did not seem to be an issue. ===== On December 22 2012 13:45 cDgCorazon wrote: How do you feel about it? That is what I would like to hear from you. Then I can make a judgement call on how right I believe Mocsta is. Right now, it seems like the two scum that Mocsta proposed have all tried to disassociate themselves from each other. Are you standing by how you jumped on the Spag lynch train? Or are you thinking on your own? I feel that he has misinterpreted my intent, and tried too hard to cobble together things that do not exist in order to try to analyze my behavior when I have played with nothing to hide. I feel that he may have taken offense to some of my comments directed toward him as well, and let that affect his judgement. I was quite seriously disturbed by the faint possibility that he was a scum acting active, and wanted to needle him a little and see how he reacted, but looks like that went awry. Like these: Then he tries to cock block me by insulating my vocabulary knowledge. Ironically. his statement is wrong (but I think he already knew that..) Definition Infiltrate: "Gain access to (an organization, place, etc.) furtively and gradually, esp. in order to acquire secret information." Scum already has access to the open discussion in the thread, so my reasoning is that the two criteria of "furtive" and "secret information" do not hold, and while scum may try to manipulate us, there is really no need to "infiltrate" to "gain information". Good blues would not be so stupid as to blatantly play all their cards openly from the get-go anyway, so the only town who might have some shared secrets that scum would want access to would be masons, if they existed. I meant this as a jest with a mild touch of needling in case it was a true scumslip, too bad he took offense. Then trys to associate me as scummy, and then to avoid me coming after him with an OMGUS, he backfoots and potentially infers I am still being pro-town. I truly had some suspicions of Mocsta, and was open to the possibility that he could be a pretending scum, while being really unsure because of how earnest he came across and his high activity. Was it genuine or trying too hard at acting it? I understand it is the first game for many of us, but he was a bit too excitable for me to place properly. I got my answer when he calmed down a little . But it looks like I also sufficiently annoyed him by this act. My slight prod, in the hopes of helping me get a better read on him, got construed as "tore me to shread - respectfully", to use Mocsta's own words. He also picks this out: Throws in blue role out of no where, potentially as a play to associate his role as blue. This was merely my thought process in considering why others are lurking; and I should hope that my play not be characterized to be as lurky as several others -- because while I have not been able to be around at all times, I feel that have put in the required thought and effort at the times that I devote to this game. Why would a blue role call attention to himself and hint at his role? It is too dangerous a move to me. Trying to ask for protection that is not guaranteed? Nah. Worse if scum figures what your role is, and prevents you from using it effectively, or kills you off. I personally feel that a blue role would/should play to be inconspicuous, stay alive and keep the role hidden for a while in order to make the most use of it. Then: Then stands by vote to Orangeremi for being a lurker. The real cause is.. the bandwagon on Croazon was big enough for a lynch. Nonsense, the corazon wagon was far from guaranteed at that point. That post was made Dec 20 0436 KST. I actually facepalmed at this. How do you arrive at such a conclusion..? Also: This is the breadcrumb post. You can read all teh fluff. giving excuses blah blah. But the guy who in post one was so in control, well reaonsed and calm.. decides to join the bandwagon on spaghetticus. Breadcrumb: try this one.. Why the heck would scum issue an open call to arms in this manner? That would be just silly. This is hardly a crumb of any kind, but rather two things: 1. having noted the possible spag-corazon association on my own, I was readily convinced by Aquanim's case, and wanted to take the votecount to a credible threat of 5 votes. 2. I still had a slight townread on Chromatically, and sought to see if he could deliver on his promise to move over as time ran out, with adequate justification. But remember: I am not infallible either -- after a full day of important RL administrivia I was definitely not thinking as clearly as I could have with a fresh, rested mind. Looking back at it now I completely understand how I myself can be seen as sheeping, since I had failed to properly convey where I drew my own conviction from. Whatever I say about that now is going to be WIFOM, unfortunately. When I got up just before the lynch, I was still not well rested, nor fully awake, and was more concerned about having my things ready to go to the embassy and getting there on time. I regret this, but at the same time am at peace with what happened because 1. I may try to play hard at this game, but ultimately I will not let it take precedence over important things in RL, and 2. the voting patterns turned out to be quite interesting and useful in my opinion. I was still feeling pretty upbeat in early N1, seeing the different ways I could tease the voting behavior apart. But the social obligations that followed had me so physically exhausted (and slightly drunk) that it would not have been responsible to post in that state -- it was all I could do to drag myself out of bed to put up my dawn dump ahead of end of N1. I will not deny I have had misreads and misplays, I am not the only one and we are all relatively new here. But I have sought a style that is open, upfront, and honest. The rest is up to town to judge. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 00:04 Kickstart wrote: So I took a look through some filters and the person who stuck out most to me was SHZ. Just a quick lookthrough of his posts shows you that he been very wishy-washy on everything and committed to absolutely nothing. In my mind there are only 2 options for this sort of play, 1 is a timid towny who is unsure of themselves, 2 is scum trying to leave themselves options to try and work their way out of bad commitments. Since I believe this is SHZ's first game I am somewhat inclined to think that he is just a timid towny, but then I look at his voting and his justification behind them (read: NONE) and it seems he doesn't care at all about who gets lynched. Townys should worry very much about who gets lynched because they do not want to lynch town, even first time players know this and typically show that they care about who gets lynched. His votes are a big issue with me and I read them as scummy right now because to me it seems SHZ does not care who gets lynched (it is typical of mafia to not care who gets lynched, as long as it is town getting lynched), look at his vote posts: He takes every chance to hop on whatever bandwagon is popular at the moment, providing no reason for being on any of them. Given this I think he is the person I am most suspicious of at the moment and want to see some real reads and commitment, not wishy-washy posts that don't commit himself to anything. @SHZ Why did you jump on every bandwagon without giving any reasons at all for why you think those players are scummy? Do you have any current scum reads that you would be willing to push instead of sheeping? I also reiterated this read and stated that I felt I would be kept around because I am easy lurker lynch-bait here: On December 22 2012 06:36 Kickstart wrote: If you didn't expect that sort of post from me than you don't know how I normally post ^^. But I can't blame you because I have been relatively inactive thus far. I have to leave and won't be back before night actions but I already gave my top read of shz for everyone to see, and I doubt I will be NKd because no one seems to have a clear read on me and I am easy lurker lynch-bait for mafia to role with at this point, so chances are I will be here day 2. Will be back later tonight and see what happened. And here cakepie is, saying he has a null read on me, listing tons of other slight scum reads, and throwing a vote on me. Not sure what he is doing, but the fact that he is voting me instead of one of his listed scum reads is suspicious. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 22 2012 14:01 Orangeremi wrote: @cake I'm interested in his theory regarding you+OE+Chrom scum team, but I don't know how much credibility it has. you mean this: I am hoping the links between cakepie, and definite mafia (OmniEulogy & Chromatically) is enough to seal the deal. Simple: Mocsta is unfortunately chasing after shadows, looking for links that don't exist In this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17290113 I skip over Aquanim, Chromatically, OmniEulogy and Spaghetticus because they were already actively posting and I did not feel I needed to prompt or pressure them, nor check anything in particular. As long as their filter continued growing at the same rate, I should have something to work with. Later on, I had a slight town read on Chromatically and was happy to let him continue engaging and prompting everyone, pressing Corazon, and later on, FatChunk. As for OmniEulogy, he remained in null+/- territory for me until fairly late, and by then I was more focused on narrowing down lynch candidates than figuring out new leads. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:48 Mocsta wrote: (1) He directly quotes Chromatically as his justifcaition. Why so much trust.. never presented him questions.. I think its cos they are working together, just like with Omni. Then what is this lets do this thing for real? You could say its a rally to townies.. but.. the way that is expressed is to different to the typical cakepie style. This is the most interesting point that Mocsta's case that I feel you need to address. He is linking you with Chro/Omni, and is basically saying that because you were willing to follow both of them on the Spag lynch train, that Chro/Omni directed the other two mafia to jump on the Chro lynch train, and that is what you did. This is what Mocsta has accused you of, and now I feel like you need to address these accusations. Were you sheeping on your vote for Spag just because the FC lynch train never took off, or were you sheeping because another scum told you so? In other words, explain your vote for Spag. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 22 2012 15:44 cakepie wrote: In this post: I skip over Aquanim, Chromatically, OmniEulogy and Spaghetticus because they were already actively posting and I did not feel I needed to prompt or pressure them, nor check anything in particular. As long as their filter continued growing at the same rate, I should have something to work with. Later on, I had a slight town read on Chromatically and was happy to let him continue engaging and prompting everyone, pressing Corazon, and later on, FatChunk. As for OmniEulogy, he remained in null+/- territory for me until fairly late, and by then I was more focused on narrowing down lynch candidates than figuring out new leads. Now that Day 1 has passed, how would you reevaluate OE and Chrom? | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On December 22 2012 15:37 Kickstart wrote: First he basically claims blue. Where might this be, if I may ask? On December 22 2012 15:37 Kickstart wrote: he says I do nothing while saying a case can be made on shz, when I have already made a case and was the first to state suspicion of shz with this post: Try waking up hungover and running out of time? I could barely get through the D1 and voting pattern analysis as it was, let along catch up to something you posted while I was asleep. I am still in the midst of sifting through all of that. On December 22 2012 15:37 Kickstart wrote: And here cakepie is, saying he has a null read on me, listing tons of other slight scum reads, and throwing a vote on me. Not sure what he is doing, but the fact that he is voting me instead of one of his listed scum reads is suspicious. How about, I think you're capable of more than one case, and wanted to prompt for more, even if it is scraps of suspicions? Looks like I got what I wanted but not quite what I expected. Regardless, bring it, and let me be on the answering and defending end of things for a change. Still, I am startled that you would take such an early pressure vote so seriously. ##Unvote | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
And here is where you "basically claim blue": On December 22 2012 09:08 cakepie wrote: Well crap. That is a shame. GG mocsta. I was roleblocked. With Mocsta's flip I feel that it is thus more likely that this comes from Robert Bellarmine (scum RB) than Martin Luther (town RB) I will now continue my intended end-of-night dump, then go grab breakfast before coming back to all the end-of-night dumps that have been going up. You claim you were roleblocked, meaning you have a role. Funny how after this you make a post where you say "Why would a blue role call attention to himself and hint at his role? It is too dangerous a move to me." When you did it yourself (if your attempt at a claim is to be believed anyways). | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
The OP wrote: All roleblocks will result in the target being notified. He was notified that he was roleblocked. This does not mean he has a PR. | ||
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