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On December 08 2012 13:36 AxleGreaser wrote:
What I want to know from rad is do you have any scum reads right now?
Whoooa, straight forward question. You DO have it in you!
I'm suspicious of jidolboy and arn. I do not have a strong read on them because they have done the most lurking. If I were to vote someone besides you, it would likely be one of them.
Do you have any scum reads right now? Besides me of course which totally isn't an OMGUS vote.
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axle, what "frequent popping in and outs" are you fucking talking about? There was 6 minutes inbetween my last 2 posts and as many inbetween my last and this one. Do you not understand how a forum works?!
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On December 08 2012 13:53 AxleGreaser wrote:
Rad why is it taking so long to remember why you were suspicious?
lol hooollyyy shit it's like you think we're talking on the phone, you asked a question, and I'm just sitting here in silence. Are you being serious here?? I can't fathom... you've gotta be trolling the shit out of me right now.
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Fuck it axle, I'm not dealing with you anymore tonight.
Park your vote on me for the rest of the day, that's fine with me. I love it, it makes me feel warm inside.
If I decide to vote jidolboy or arn, I will back my vote up with sufficient reasoning. I don't know why you're treating this game like a chat room but I'm done with that. Going to go play hots and watch proleague.
Of course, if anyone else who has reasonable expectations for the time it takes to answer their questions has any questions for me, please leave them (I expect that would be everyone but Axle). I'll be back to check them, and answer them, in due time, like one would expect from a forum.
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NOTE: the quotes get fucked up near the end, and I can't figure it out (I did figure out one missed one though :D). I'm sorry. I'm actually a programmer so mismatching tags makes me sad...
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:
Throughout the game Rad has been going after targets that seem easy, he has jumped onto whatever wagon has some traction
Wrong. What bandwagons have I jumped on? I had a scum read on you from the beginning (see my case on you). Other than you, I just voted axle, those are my 2 votes so far. You think your one vote on axle is a bandwagon? LOL. I woke up, read his garbage as I was eating breakfast, and responded with my vote. I did not give 2 shits that you had a vote on him (shit look at your vote of "whatever" - great reasoning kick).
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:
he is playing scummy all around.
"Guys he's totally scummy, like all around." (that was your voice in my head)
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:
Rad is SCUM
His only scum read this game has been on me, and at this point, without sounding too pretentious, I am the closest thing this game has to confirmed town.
After the flip of Oats as scum I have been waiting to see more from Rad and decided that to commit to a read on him I wanted more; thankfully, he gave me more to go on.
My bad I confirmation biased you all of d1. Your bad that you're confirmation biasing me the entire game. Who has given us shit to go on n1 and d2 (no one except yamato and sylencia IMO, and axle shitting up the thread with confusion)? You're welcome for contributing to the thread and "giving you more to go on" unlike some others.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:
His Flip-Flop on Axle
Rad has done a complete turn around on his views on Axle. Day 1 he was pushing a lynch on me and defended Axles posting, and used my vote on Axle as a point in his case on me. Here Axle responds to my vote by asking me am I looking for scum or dumb, note that he indicts me for not voting based on Axle being scummy to me because he later puts his vote on Axle without a scum read on him.
Axle looked like what I thought was clearly newbie town on d1 with his insecurity. I knew he was an odd poster based on his posts in QT (which I got in an argument with him about, before this game). Your axle vote on d1 looked like bullshit because your reasoning was "because dumb." Again, look at my case on you. I noted the difference between "because dumb" and both yamato's and sylencia's policy lynch reasoning. These are completely different frames of mind IMO.
I have also explained my turn around on axle in my vote post for him. Please read it again and question me on it if you're not satisfied, but I'm kinda pissed that you've just ignored that and are making it a point against me.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 14:03 Rad wrote:On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote:
##AxleGreaser
Because dumb. On December 05 2012 13:51 Kickstart wrote:
ebwop: woops
##Vote: AxleGreaser I'm curious, kick. Do you want to vote for people you think are scum, or people you think are dumb? (oh wait, we just found out the answer to that) ##Vote: Kickstart Rad fairly questions my vote, but he goes on to defend Axle's posting. Rad just voted on Axle after the level of discontent for Axle reached a peak, even after hard defending his awkward posting style before. In other words, Rad's vote on Axle is blatant opportunism - he doesn't think Axle is scum and, apparently, he knows from looking at Axle's posting history that this is just how Axle posts.
I specifically say that I can't consider him newbie town anymore because of how he was posting at that time. For all I know, I've made another terrible read and this guy is pushing his "i'm too random to be scum" agenda further. Also, what's this shit about "apparently he knows from looking at axle's posting history that this is just how axle posts"?? Go look at that last NMM QT. I WAS THERE TALKING TO HIM. I went into this game not knowing wtf to expect from him because his shit was so confusing in the QT.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:02 Rad wrote:@kickCan you explain why you voted him, with explanation "Because dumb"? It wasn't a pressure move - he had been talking like that the entire game, and in the last NMM QT. That's how he talks. What do you want him to do about it? So if not a pressure move, and not a serious vote, then what? For funzies? To stir shit up? I don't get it. On December 06 2012 05:16 Rad wrote:
@kick
That's how he talks. Check last NMM's QT. I didn't understand wtf he was talking about from the start there and had to get him to clarify himself. I had to read his 1 sentence per line post over and over to figure it out. What you're saying is you don't give a shit if he's town or scum, and that you will lynch him regardless.
I get the idea of a policy lynch on him, but 2 things. 1. you're going to have to policy lynch him every game you play in with him, because that's just how he talks. Perhaps you could just attempt to understand instead. 2. he's so damn obviously newbie townie (or amazing scum, no way though) that you're better off ignoring him rather than lynching him.
What's your honest read on Axle, kick? Town or scum? So why the complete switch? Are we to believe that after hard defending Axle's posting that now, only a short time later, he is so opposed to it. I have a hard time believing such a thing, especially when the vote can be explained much easier: Rad is scum and viewed the discontent for Axle as an opportunity for a mys-lynch.
You clearly haven't actually read all axle's posts. I actually have. In d1 he looks confused newbie town. I try to push him to stop that shit and contribute something useful. See my last game (where I was TOWN) and did the same damn thing to obzy. I just wanted to nudge him in the right direction, and talking shit to him isn't the way to go (see where I was TOWN and called debears out for being scum - even though he ended up being town also - because he was being a dick to obzy, because I considered his posts anti-town).
Axle day 2 started going fucking nuts, voting himself and spamming. Not confused newbie town anymore, or is it? I don't know anymore. I just know that if he's left in the last 3, it'll be a coin flip on who wins. First you'll mislynch me, then you'll mislynch (IMO) yamato, then it'll be axle the self-voting nonsense spammer and 2 other people. Look at his voting history - he OMGUS votes you d1 (before he switched back to no lynch?!?), then OMGUS votes me (would you put money on what he'll do next?).
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:
Reading through Rad's post where he puts his vote on Axle gives us no new information that can justify the sudden switch. Rad just reiterates the frustrations of everyone else that Axle's posts are hard to understand, even after hard defending Axles posting a short time ago.
It absolutely gives you new information. I made a decision and gave my reasoning for it. I could have sat back like other people and done nothing. What does my vote on axle do for me if I'm scum other than bring attention to me? It caused axle to be angry with me and makes you wonder why I'm "sheeping" you. Unfortunately you read the new information poorly.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 01:03 Rad wrote:Axle, imagine yourself and 2 others left in this game. One of you is scum. How the fuck is town supposed to decide if you're scum or not in that scenario? You're literally forcing yourself to be a policy lynch due to being 100% unreadable. I can't even consider you newbie town anymore because you're just spamming up the thread with no direction. You ask a question, get a couple answers, and do NOTHING with it. You vote yourself, unvote, vote, unvote, talk to yourself, wtf? If you get lynched and flip scum I will /facepalm. If you get lynched and flip town, I will have to consider not playing with you anymore. From last NMM obs:
glhf
Its hammer time.
If this post is not what I ought put here, I am good with editing it away.
If OakMaster turns up would someone kindly direct him to this question, that might be best
thrashed out here not in Day 1 of XXXII noob game (As that might terrify the natives)
Oakmaster
I have never played game of mafia in my life.....
So you might tend to discount what I say.
However if an utter wet noob can say this too you and be right... perhaps there is a real problem.
Try getting some of obs to laugh at how silly these points are?
I might very well play in the next noob game depending when it starts.
I do however want it to be a fun experience for both of us.
I had however been tossing up the idea just not playing until you stop playing in the noobs.
I have been having trouble working out what I am going
to do so that if you and I play in a game I don't get mislynched D2.
As a noob seeking to learn.
I have been told what I should do when trying to do reads is not
get tied up in logic but look for the motivations of the player.
Thus I have a question I want to know what OakMasters actual motivation
was during D2.
A wagon was running on him, it acquired influential players.
During that time when there was real possibility he might have to claim...
Did he wonder what will be best for town or was his one priority, "get the lynch off me anywhere
doesn't have to be the best place, just so long as it is anywhere?"
How did you let it go to one of the towns previously Most town reads?
Were you overly suspicious of him?
What had Oakmaster been doing with his time, who did he want to lynch the most?
Or did he simply not care.
After that day how many people were actually saved by the blueness of his role?
If he had been in fact been as derp as he had been playing... wasn't it actually the worst play.
Did he bring any evidence he was not derp?
To scummy to be scum, to derp to be a doctor to be worth even saving was my read.
You didn't even come with any evidence you could play better than you had.
What would have happened if you looked for your meta case of kickstart the first day
and dropped that on top of Aquas post.
Obs would have cheered, so would I youd have been a legend, you might still be.
What had you done except wait for your time in the sun?
I know it is not my place, but I nominate OakMaster : Serial killer MVP.
Yeah I do know the available roles: my nomination stands.
BTW: This is how you execute someone.
Might it hurt his feelings? glhf.
What is your intention with your play this game axle. You criticize oats for his play in last NMM, but what would you say of yourself in this game? Who was worse, blue oats trying to save himself last game, or you literally contributing nothing to this game but confusion. You have the potential to take down town all on your own if we mislynch a couple times. What win scenario would that fit for you?
##Vote: AxleGreaser
Note that Rad casts no suspicion on Axle at all, all he does is restate everyone's frustration with Axle. Then look at this post where when asked what scum reads Rad has, he names two people - neither of which are Axle. How can one say that he is most suspicious of two certain people when his current vote is on neither of them? There is no town motive for voting someone who you don't think is scum, but such a move can easily be explained with Rad as scum.
So, you're saying I "don't cast suspicion on axle" and that's a scummy thing to do?? I'm doing 2 things with my vote on him. I'm letting him know of my frustration in his posts - because in d1, he appeared to be moving in the right direction for town, but in d2 he started going bonkers. Secondly, I'm telling him to shape up, because I now am not sure how the hell to read him, but during d1 I thought he was heading in the right direction at times. He's 100% unreadable with his new direction. I pointed out why that's bad for town and why that makes him a reasonable vote. I also point out that he's being a hypocrite based on his REAL self (QT self being necessarily real, mafia game self being unknown) and want him to realize that if he's town, he needs to step back and judge his own contributions to this game, as he so easily did with oats from last game.
His response to my vote is OMGUS and tunneling.
The other 2 people are based on "who are my weakest town reads." Considering I have a town read on sylencia and yamato, and I'm forced to have a town read on you due to d1 vote outcome (or you're just a crafty scum mfer, but going with occam's razor), the last 2 are jidolboy and arn. They have contributed extremely little to this game and their decisions have been extremely suspicious (no ongoing reasoninng discussion from jidol, arn being super wishy washy as well as the last vote to push oats over the edge).
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 13:44 Rad wrote:On December 08 2012 13:36 AxleGreaser wrote:
What I want to know from rad is do you have any scum reads right now?
Whoooa, straight forward question. You DO have it in you!
I'm suspicious of jidolboy and arn. I do not have a strong read on them because they have done the most lurking. If I were to vote someone besides you, it would likely be one of them.
Do you have any scum reads right now? Besides me of course which totally isn't an OMGUS vote. Amusingly, Axle seems to catch onto this and pushes Rad on it, asking him why he is suspicious of those two people (for whatever reason he doesn't bring up the more important point that Rad's vote is on neither of them). Rad doesn't respond too kindly. It is interesting that in this post he says that if he decides to vote on who he is most suspicious of he will back it up with sufficient reasoning when his current vote is backed up by none.
This is really becoming bullshit, kick. I explained my reasoning for voting axle IN THE VOTE POST. Why are you pointing out this idea that "i never explained myself" over and over and over? If you have issues with my reasoning, confront me and ask me to explain. Don't build an entire case around it as if it's multiple points when it's just 1 completely wrong point over and over.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:The Scum Wagon on MeRad's Day-1 play is no better than what I outlined above. His actions Day 1, while even more suspect due to the fact that we know that Oats was scum and was leading a push on me, are scummy without an association to Oats. Rad seems to want to jump onto someone early Day 1, much like he has jumped on Axle currently. The first instance of this is Rad questioning me about a joke post. I have hashed this out with Rad and it is a pretty tired topic but it shows how Rad is thinking, it shows that he is looking for someone to latch onto. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:11 Rad wrote:On December 04 2012 11:06 Kickstart wrote:
O yeah that reminds me, I am down for lynching Oats due to his play last game. Anyone else?
You're down for lynching strictly based on his play from last game (where he was town) rather than scum hunting and lynching your biggest scum read? What exactly do you expect to get from this? While questioning someone is not scummy, trying to jump on an easy target is, that is why I bring up the above post as a point in my case. Rad against takes a very reactionary approach in his Day 1 vote on me. At the time I was an easy target, and Rad jumps on me in a very opportunistic way. On December 05 2012 14:03 Rad wrote:On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote:
##AxleGreaser
Because dumb. On December 05 2012 13:51 Kickstart wrote:
ebwop: woops
##Vote: AxleGreaser I'm curious, kick. Do you want to vote for people you think are scum, or people you think are dumb? (oh wait, we just found out the answer to that) ##Vote: Kickstart Now have a look at Rad's case on me, and pay particular attention to the portion I have marked red and note that Rad is guilty of all of them, and not that he starts off with the point that scum doesn't care who dies as long as it is town - which is telling given his current vote on Axle with no scum read on him. + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2012 16:26 Rad wrote:Kickstart, the try-hard scumLast game didn't work out so well for him. He was scum, got caught, and lost the game. For any of you who followed this, perhaps you'll remember a bit about how it was played out. He was an ass, and he has claimed (before this game) that this would continue to be his meta. I see some of you are fooled by it, but all you have to do is read his previous game and note that the differences aren't all that drastic. Scum doesn't care who dies, as long as it's townFrom NMM XXXI: Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:31 Kickstart wrote:
Don't think this really needs too much justification but I will give a bit anyways. Bad play since beginning, suspicious and scummy. After numerous requests to shape up from many people he is still unable to and is still sheeping his vote around while making no real cases on anyone (I am sorry but some crap case that you yourself are the first to dismiss shortly after you make it don't count).
You have had ample opportunity to change my mind by scum hunting and posting a decent case on anyone. Since you refuse to do so and your most recent posts are just more evidence that you refuse to do so I am putting my vote on you. You still have time to scum hunt and start playing the game - I suggest you do so.
##vote: Oatsmaster Here he votes oats not because he feels oats is scum (everyone can use the word "scummy"), but because oats isn't being productive town. NOT a reason to vote town. This is of course the prelude to today's WTF moment of: "So Rad, if kick did this shit last game, why would he do it this game?"Let me point you to promo's huge post giving him and helo some suggestions: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=83#1660Some interesting things to note (that I think are noticably different from his last game and this game): 1. "You needed to make your reads and stick to them. Scum often want to sit back and allow town to make cases for them, you needed to make your cases stronger and to push them instead of being wishy washy."
As scum, he needs to change his meta to be more in your face and consistent. He's doing exactly this. Last game, he'd just talk shit, but wouldn't follow through with it. This game, he's adapted.
2. "Always take the chance, as scum, to attack the townie doing something so dumb that you can't understand it."
I don't know how this suggestion could be more literal than kick, literally, calling Axle dumb and voting him. Were you LOLing when you made that vote kick, thinking no one would fucking get it?"Ok ok, Rad, enough of the meta shit, is that all you got?"Of course not. Wtf. Take the easy prey, and stick to itI tend to jump on "shit ideas" quickly. This is how I play. You can read my last 2 games (NMMXXIX and NMMXXX) and see that's what I do. I did it vs scum debears in the first game, and vs town debears in the second game, and many more times throughout those games. I did it here too, to kick's shit idea, and proceeded to question him about it. Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:11 Rad wrote:On December 04 2012 11:06 Kickstart wrote:
O yeah that reminds me, I am down for lynching Oats due to his play last game. Anyone else? You're down for lynching strictly based on his play from last game (where he was town) rather than scum hunting and lynching your biggest scum read? What exactly do you expect to get from this? Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:12 Kickstart wrote:
@ Rad
That my friend is what we call a joke, hence that post directly under it that says "jkjk" Yeah, I missed the jkjk. TT. I apologized and moved on. As soon as kick notices the weakness though (which is after he posts the above), he realizes he has an opportunity to pounce: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:18 Kickstart wrote:
@Rad
So if I was actually serious about what I had said what would you have done? Fine, confusing question, but I respond: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:21 Rad wrote:On December 04 2012 11:18 Kickstart wrote:
@Rad
So if I was actually serious about what I had said what would you have done? I'd have awaited your answer and asked you more questions or dropped it depending on if I thought I had a scum read on it? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Now CC jumps in with a good, smart question: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On December 04 2012 11:16 Rad wrote:
@kick sorry missed the jkjk =/ I'm quick to jump on shit ideas ^^ What did Kick's "shit idea" tell you in terms of alignment? If Kick truly believed he wanted to lynch Oats for behavior last game, is that scum motivated? I reply to CC, and kick jumps in: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 11:32 Kickstart wrote:
What cheese just asked is what I was getting at Rad, I was being a bit more subtle but you just kind of brushed it away after I questioned you about it. I wanted to see if what I had said would have made you try and push me as a scum read. OK kick, sure buddy, you saw that cheese had a smarter question than you and decided to attempt to sheep it, all the while pushing suspicion on me (I "brushed it away"? wtf no I answered your question) and suggesting it was a **SCUM TRAP!!!*** And where does this go? Kick literally throws out a "HUGE post" about yamato and me, with the only point being about my mistaken questioning of his joke (which he, again, takes the opportunity to point out that "oh bummer I should have caught him in my scumtrap because he's obviously scum".) Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 15:59 Kickstart wrote:
/snip
Unfortunately I immediately revealed that I was joking and then the whole thing was dropped, otherwise I could have maybe pressed it a bit and gotten more of a reaction from him, but again I view his initial reaction as slightly scummy.
He then proceeds to whine about no one reading his post, and how everyone's stupid because of it (read after his "HUGE post" about me and yamato), attempting to give himself more town credit (also note that I responded to his post before he started whining, and he did not persue me further - satisfied with my answer or scum too lazy to push the issue?). To summarize: 1. Has fooled many by acting like a more vocal "can't possibly be scum" asshole rather than a "pick your targets carefully" asshole. 2. Clearly sheep's CC's reasoning and attempts to push suspicion onto me after the fact, as if it were his plan all along. 3. Tried to increase the importance of his "HUGE post" by calling people out for "not reading it" and basically saying "acknowledge me or I will ignore you." 4. Failed the ultimate test of voting for the correct (townie) reason: town does not vote for "dumb" as he put it, town votes for scum. Then plays it off as "scum trap" when I call him out on it and OMGUS votes me. I am now exhausted and going to bed. I will read and respond to replies to this when I get a chance tomorrow, but again, I'll be working and only have limited availability until I'm done (should be around the same time as today, but will try to push for getting done earlier since lynch is tomorrow). In the way of direct interaction between Oats and Rad there isn't much, Oats only responds to a few arbitrary statements. What we do have however is a clear agenda that Oats tried to push (to push a mys-lynch on me) and the fact that Day 1 Rad had the same exact agenda. Rad pushed this agenda to the fullest - he showed suspicion of ONLY me, this is not town play. Town is naturally suspicious of everyone, but the entirety of Day 1 is Rad tunneling me, which we already know was the scum agenda for day 1. Rad is not suspicious of anyone else to a serious degree, and even gives everyone else but me a town or null read Day 1 - this is not the play of a suspicious towny looking for scum, it is the play of scum consciously pushing an agenda. On December 05 2012 01:41 Rad wrote:
I'm all caught up now.
@kick
Not sure what else to say to you about your concerns with me but TBH that's just my play style. I'm a bit embarrassed that I totally missed the jkjk but what happens is I read something really stupid and then feel the need to jump on it immediately. Feel free to glance over my previous games (XXIX and XXX) if you'd like to see this in action.
@CC
1. "I have no idea who to lynch, but I can justify it because of this post!" - this hasn't happened, why even speculate that it will happen? What's the point of casting suspicion on me for something I haven't even done?
2. If kick's idea was sincere, I'd have major problems with it (as I've already said). My concern there was your quoting "shit idea" as if it wasn't one. I thought perhaps you read his idea differently than how I did, thus my question.
3. Kick literally FoS's yamato then immediately turns around and says "weeelll maybe I'm being too harsh, what's everyone else's thoughts?" Looks like useless trying to be useful. I wanted to get him to talk more about it instead of letting him push it back out onto everyone else.
Thoughts so far:
- leaning scum on kick - just my gut initial feeling, I'm going to focus more on looking into it when I have time after work tonight
- leaning town on yamato - he's acting just like last game IMO, I feel like he'd have to change things up if he were scum
- mind blown trying to understand axle, but I'm happy that he's trying now (his change feels super newbie town, so leaning town) and want to see where he goes with his oats discussion
- leaning town on CC, I feel like he was much less confrontational in his scum game and he's asking good questions
Other reads are pretty null
Going to be fairly lurky today, until tonight when I'm off work and can focus on everything, but wanted to get this post out there in the meantime. I will try to get chances throughout the day to respond when possible.
Yeah kick, we were just like "LOL let's get kick and when he flips town we'll just get busted, but who cares!!" Seriously how do you see this play out in your head?
I didn't look into oats much on d1 because he was fitting my idea of how his town meta was. I've watched him in chrono and the last NMM and to me his play was identical. I went into NMM QT and specifically said his play pissed me off, but that it was probably me reading scum wrong. Maybe that had something to do with it. If he was quieter and less controversial, maybe I would have had a different read on him. Instead, he pushed conversation and had a large filter. I learned specifically in the last couple newbies I played that the one with the biggest filter isn't usually scum. Everything just fit for town oats to me.
+ Show Spoiler +
[QUOTE]On December 08 2012 14:59 Kickstart wrote:
Conclusion
After Day 1's events I decided to wait and give Rad a fair chance. Since the association was so strong between him and Oats I wanted to see if he would show any signs of pro-town play, what we got is clearly reactionary and opportunistic play, scum play.
##unvote
##Vote:Rad
It's how I play as town. Get ready to vote for me in every game you play with me ^^
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@Arnarnion
Did you know what you were getting yourself into when you signed up? I wouldn't even consider playing mafia during a time like "exam and essay crunch time."
What are your thoughts on jidolboy? He's slightly more lurker than you. Are you able to get any sort of read on him, one way or the other?
Of the main topics going on right now - myself as possible scum, scum hiding as a lurker, axle as destructive to town, which do you think is most important looking into right now considering we have about ~7.5 hours before lynch? Or do you think our focus should be on something else?
Did you get a chance to look through the thread? Did you come up with any observations you could share with us?
Who's your top scum read?
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@Axle
I see you do not consider kick confirmed town. Do you think a scenario exists where kick busses oats that early in the game? Do you think that would have been a smart scum play considering how the game was playing out at the time of his vote on oats?
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@jidolboy
On December 08 2012 17:21 jidolboy wrote:
I was always suspicious of Rad (his and it seems the majority has the same feeling so I will vote against him as well unless someone tells me to do otherwise
##Vote:Rad
Also, I apologize for lacking in something original . I can't seem up to come up anything conclusive or hard evidence when I read through their filter. And when I think I did, someone else had already said it long time ago :l
I'm too gullible and overlook things too quickly
@Sylencia
If you think me piggybacking CC is suspicious, then do you think it would have been less scummy if I piggybacked Oats because majority did so at the time I voted? Again, I didn't have anything valuable to bring up because other people did
Take a glance through your filter. You've never once mentioned me in terms of a scum read. Why did you hide this suspicion the entire game (since you've ALWAYS been suspicious of me)? Back when you wanted me to PM you for your scum read, what were you going to tell me? Certainly you wouldn't have said "HAHA! YOU are my biggest scum read, scum!!"
If you piggybacked oats back then, don't ya think that might be a little bit too obvious? O.o
So if everyone was voting yamato right now, would my name be replaced with his, since you seem to vote based on other people's votes? Which person in this game has the most power over your vote right now, since you're open to be told what to do?
On December 08 2012 17:42 jidolboy wrote:@Sylencia I see what your'e saying, but it was a gut feeling that kept lasted even though he provided reason why he did it. Like I'm still suspicious of him defending Oats but he told us proofs that seemed ok. I thought to myself that repeating an and using that kind of evidence is no good when trying to convince people. You may call me a sheep but if someone more open-minded opinion on a person on my radar then I agree with him, and it seems everyone I agreed to had better knowledge than me  Just my playstyle I suppose. If you guys think I am a scum, then I don't mind getting lynched, but on D3 please. I want at least see how D2 goes
My "proofs seemed ok", so why exactly are you voting me again? Just because other people are? Do you care who gets lynched?
On December 08 2012 17:56 jidolboy wrote:Well, I've never asked for a lynch  (Although I kinda feel useless to the town ATM) I'm just trying to say that I've got to learn from my mistake and become a better player next time I play
On December 08 2012 17:59 jidolboy wrote:
:o I'll try
Have you tried anything yet? If not, when do you think you'll get a chance to try? By d3 when we've mislynched and you're ready to step it up?
What mistakes do you feel you've made? Can they be rectified in this game or must they wait until later?
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@jidolboy
Ya. If I PMed you a scum read then I would have included everyone
So you'd have listed your reads on everyone? Why would you have told me (who you thought was scum) and not everyone else?
Show nested quote +f you piggybacked oats back then, don't ya think that might be a little bit too obvious? O.o How explain.
If you're oats's scum partner, it would make your association too obvious if you were to piggy back him.
Show nested quote +
So if everyone was voting yamato right now, would my name be replaced with his, since you seem to vote based on other people's votes? Which person in this game has the most power over your vote right now, since you're open to be told what to do?
I've already said Show nested quote +
You may call me a sheep but if someone more open-minded opinion on a person on my radar then I agree with him, and it seems everyone I agreed to had better knowledge than me
Sooo, that's a yes? I was asking you to confirm or deny my statement, not copy/paste what you've already said. I'm trying to get you to clarify yourself. (your statements are coming across confusing, for example, the one you quoted is hard to understand)
And of course I care who gets lynched. If I didn't, then I would have voted for Axlegrease when 2 people had already voted for him in D2
As scum, you'd still need to make a smart play. Who has a better chance of being lynched today, me or Axle? (hint: it's me)
I think it's somewhat late to step it up during Day D2 since it seems votes are fixed on to you.
You're one of those votes. Any reason you're happy not being a big deal in my lynch? You just want to sheep on the more vocal people so they take the fall after my mislynch, all the while giving no reasoning other than "yeah, he's totally scummy, I've thought that the entire game"?
On December 09 2012 04:13 jidolboy wrote:
Also
Care to explain why you think Sylencia is more of a town other than the reason "He provided list of reasons"?
It seems you are targeting us easy lurkers to get lynched instead of active players for some reason
Sylencia has been putting himself out there, making clear reads, has a transparent opinion on the situation, didn't immediately jump on the easy target (I'm the easy target jidolboy, not you), appears to be thinking about things from a town perspective. These are all things that do not relate to my read on you.
On December 09 2012 04:20 jidolboy wrote:Show nested quote +If I decide to vote jidolboy or arn, I will back my vote up with sufficient reasoning I am still waiting for sufficient reasoning. I think it will be good idea to post your evidence before you get lynched. So the town will have greater idea who the scum is if we mislynched you
You're "still waiting for sufficient reasoning" - you say it like you've said it before, and you're getting impatient, as though I've avoided your question. Have I voted for you?
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@jidolboy
If you're town, this is what you should have been doing all game. Keep it up so town can get a read on you one way or the other.
The reason you're under suspicion, to me at least, is that you've given us no content to judge you on. Activity is good for town, lurking is good for scum. Your votes are pure sheeping (admittedly), so how are we to know that you're town sheeping over scum sheeping? If you're on me when I flip town, how are people supposed to judge your decision to lynch me if your only vocal reasoning was based on sheeping? If town, you might become the next easy lynch for scum to push (or town to push, scum might not even have to do anything).
When did I say I was going to give it ONLY to you? I was willing to share it to everyone who was interested. Plus the reason I did not post it was because they were what others had said thus it can cause confusion in the thread
Lists can be considered scummy. I don't personally think so (see my lists in previous games), but we saw someone like CC does. I think it really depends on the content of the list, and it tends to be a natural sort of thing for a newbie to want to do. At the very least, at least you would have been getting your content out there for others to judge.
So if you think your scum partner is in trouble, do you think voting against him will be a better option? Doesn't make sense to me.
It's called a bus. You throw your scum partner under the bus (i.e. be one of the people who get him lynched) to gain town cred. There's a few people that fit the potential for this to be true, you're one of them. Notice as soon as the lynch happened, only 3 people were under suspicion - myself, yamato, and axle, because we did not vote to lynch him. See how easy it would be for a scum to lurk the game away with the town cred gained from lynching his partner?
Oh sorry. Yes. I'm a sheep when it comes to voting. BUT, that's only when it's person I have suspicion on. For example, before voting, I had already mentioned I wasn't sure about Oats then later voted against him by piggy backing CC
Again, something else we don't have proof on because you never mentioned me before your vote. Lurking bad for town, because now town can't decide if you're scum sheeping or town sheeping.
That's basically saying, oh he's been a suspicious since D1 so we should lynch him.
Talk it out with Sylencia, not me. That will give us more content from both of you. See how it works?
As far as I know, Axle and Kick had questioned you about my suspicion but you did not answer them so I questioned you again. I only asked you again because I truly care about this town and wanted you to share your opinion about me before you get lynched.
Axle asked me a bunch of questions and then went nutso on me before I had a chance to answer them. I've already noted that I was done with him due to that. I don't remember kick asking about you specifically but if I've missed a question he wanted answered, I'd expect him to bring it back up again.
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Alright.
Guys, this is a good thing. I would have flipped town tonight, and you would not have known where to go with that because kick pushed me so hard (and I'm pretty sure kick is town). Instead, a town is saved, and we have more time to discuss.
I do not feel like today was wasted, as kick suggested would be the case with a no lynch. Instead, what happened?
1. jidolboy has started to to open up and talk. If he's newbie town, maybe he's breaking out of his shell now. He has said that he's made mistakes and intends to fix them, so we get to see where he goes with that.
2. Arn has made a statement that his real life is preventing him from posting more. Well, we've gained more time for him to post while keeping the town count high enough that we don't have to hastily make any coin flip decisions when determining his alignment.
3. Axle stopped spamming up the thread and regardless of who his vote started and ended on, he's at least starting to think about things other than voting himself.
I thank those of you who did not vote for me. This gives me a unique perspective in that I know I'm town, and I know I would have been an easy lynch due to the oats ordeal, but my lynch didn't go through. I need to think about that and see if I can figure anything out. My first thought is that scum should have been on me no matter what, but I need to see if maybe it would have been smarter to keep off me.
I'm heading out for the night but will be back tomorrow to discuss.
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@yamato
There's either a cop or a named VT left in the game, and claiming either would secure them as confirmed town, allowing us to stop considering them as potential scum. Whether cop should claim at this point or not should be left up to the cop, depending on their checks so far, but named VT should probably go ahead and claim now so we can focus our efforts on the smaller group of people.
Do you have any problems with this plan, other than considering it gimmicky?
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@yamato
Why the sudden change of heart? It's troubling that you would view me as town, suddenly sheep vote me, then when that failed you spread suspicion across 3 other people (who aren't me), make a case on arn and throughout the case you repeatedly mention me as if to set me up for the final mislynch (even though you clearly dropped suspicion on me with this post):
On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote:
So my FoS is on Syl, Arn, and Axle. There exists the distinct possibility that Axle is scum, though proving so is difficult. Syl voted for jidol for basically no reason except that he was lurking. In hindsight, I think the vote looks incredibly stupid because I have a pretty decent town read on jidol at the moment, and despite his low post count haven't had a scum read on him all game.
On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote:
Believe me, you have the wrong idea if you think my play D2 is scummy at all. I sheep the towniest player in the game in a majority lynch on a player who was strongly associated with the scum we lynched day 1 and somehow that is scum play? There are some holes in that logic.
Right, so what exactly is it about your d2 play that was so townie? Can scum not sheep the towniest player? Can scum not jump on someone's wagon for a bullshit association case? These seem like things scum would WANT to do if they thought they could get away with it. What exactly did you do on d2 that was so amazingly townie? My mislynch would have pushed suspicion onto kick the most with no one to blame after he was mislynched, and a jidolboy mislynch afterwards would have been easy following that if he wasn't named VT.
On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote:
Regardless, if that is your only reason for not voting him, you should reconsider why it is that he is being cast into the spotlight in the first place, which is his continually questionable play up to this point. After the failed wagon on Kick, he has done basically nothing the whole game.
More of the same, FoS 3 other people, but keep that suspicion on me alive.
On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote:
Now if you HONESTLY doubt Rad's guilt
Suggesting you don't doubt my guilt, which seems odd considering you didn't FoS me and have just spent all your time making a case on arn.
On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote:
Right now I lay blame at both your feet for the lack of any new information D2 because neither of you seem very involved in this game. I guarantee you will get lynched if you don't change that.
So it's syl's and arn's fault, but definitely not axle's fault even though you FoS'd him just before this statement. What new information could you have even gotten from my mislynch? Oh wait, I know. Kick flipped town, jidolboy is now confirmed town, so that leaves only... YOU.
##Vote: yamato77
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Would it not imply Syl's and Axle's innocence as well? Yet you felt the need to sling shit at them anyway?
What exactly is this "you are still on my radar" shit anyway? You're either suspicious of me or you're not. You felt the need to FoS 3 people but not me? Your logic isn't following sir.
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I'm noting your actions, yamato, not the fact that every town should be suspicious of everyone right now.
You had your vote on me last lynch, but that shit didn't work. You're now FoSing 3 different people, none of which include your last lynch vote, but also subtly keeping the door open to move back to me if the opportunity presents itself.
Now your reasoning is that Arn's guilt would imply my innocence, but the same goes for the rest of the people in this game, including the ones you FoS'd. You claim you're slinging shit at them to motivate, but also take the stance that I have basically done nothing the entire game. Why I no get motivations from you </3 ??
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On December 11 2012 15:03 yamato77 wrote:
If you want to be all nitpicky about who I spoke about in my posts, go ahead, but I did not FoS anybody. I don't recall using the term this game at all. I called them out and told them that what they were doing was not pro-town in my eyes and that I was going to look into that. I did, and Arn is by far the most suspicious.
What???
On December 09 2012 16:36 yamato77 wrote:
So my FoS is on Syl, Arn, and Axle.
On December 11 2012 15:03 yamato77 wrote:
Right now though you look pretty scummy because your "case" on me is hilariously weak and also opportunistic in the sense that you think you can actually get me lynched because of Axle's vote and the conflict between Arn and I. This fits right in with your opportunistic play D1 and D2 trying to get easy mislynches on players you thought were already under fire.
Opportunistic because... axle has a vote on you? Axle places his vote randomly, or because he's angry at someone, or because __fill in the fucking blank__. It happens to be on you right now. I will be extremely surprised if he stays on you until the lynch. Consider me the first real vote on you.
Anyway, no need to convince the scum that he's scum, just going to let the others decide. You're falling apart here, scum.
On December 11 2012 15:09 yamato77 wrote:
Also, I'm going to say this now because this nefarious scheme is probably gonna work but if I get lynched Rad is 100% scummy for how he has his vote placed on me atm.
No worries here, when you flip red, I will /dance ^^
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Arn, do you plan on getting in here before lynch time to defend yourself against yamato's case? Now is the time so we can have enough time to think things over without having to make last minute decisions...
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Perhaps all the votes on yamato are making him feel safe. I can't allow myself to vote yamato when arn is sitting there literally doing nothing to help town.
##Unvote
##Vote: Arnarnion
Come out of hiding, arn.
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Sigh, arn.
On December 12 2012 10:06 Sylencia wrote:
Yep, pretty sure yamato is the last scum we are looking for.
Based on your previous thoughts, or did this flip add to it?
On December 12 2012 10:09 jidolboy wrote:
Well well well
At least we found more about this town....
Considering you're the only confirmed town, being less cryptic would be great.
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Well, I called that. My top scum read is voting the top unreadable player. GG coinflip game.
On December 08 2012 01:03 Rad wrote:
Axle, imagine yourself and 2 others left in this game. One of you is scum. How the fuck is town supposed to decide if you're scum or not in that scenario? You're literally forcing yourself to be a policy lynch due to being 100% unreadable. I can't even consider you newbie town anymore because you're just spamming up the thread with no direction. You ask a question, get a couple answers, and do NOTHING with it. You vote yourself, unvote, vote, unvote, talk to yourself, wtf? If you get lynched and flip scum I will /facepalm. If you get lynched and flip town, I will have to consider not playing with you anymore.
(note that we could have avoided this if we went with my policy lynch suggestion on d2, which was then turned on me as if it was some scummy play)
Sylencia, do you have a solid read on axle?
Yamato, lynching *anyone* is good for scum at this point. Why is axle specifically good for me to lynch if I'm scum? How is it not equally as good for you if you're scum? All 3 of us have at some point suggested a policy lynch for axle.
I agree that a no lynch could be our best option, but it seems like it has the potential to become WIFOM hell based on who's alive right now. I'm open to discussing it later in the day.
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EPT
