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On December 12 2012 00:28 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:05 Vivax wrote:
While Tunkeg's halfassedness is detrimental to town, I start doubting if scum would do it in such an obvious way. In lack of better options, I still consider him to be a valid lynch candidate along with jay (Who I've read from bugs post has a tendency to get mislynched).
While I think debears case against Adam is bad, I don't like his entrance right now. It doesn't look like he's been properly scumhunting lately, just some more half assed questions and statements. Thanks for saying you lean town on me though.
ADAM, who are you gonna vote for if you had to? Right now, I think Tunkeg has a solid chance of flipping scum. His reaction to WBG's case was overly defensive and he's contributed very little. Ill take a closer look in the morning. Its 2am, I am going to bed.
Wtf????
You jump from thrawn, to me, to vivax (you made a long post on vivax), and now Tunkeg (and you have said nothing about him)
This guys is scum yo
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BLUELIGHTZZZZ, I need to know what you think of Palmar!
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Is anyone else seeing something very weird going on between vivax and adam??????
like really, I'm getting shivers from their interactions
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On December 11 2012 22:37 Vivax wrote:I'm reading better than you think . I still think your case is full of shit. I see a lot of word-twisting in it. And I don't care if Adam is voting for me as long as I believe him to be town. What kind of bad question is that. Why are you thinking from a scum point of view? Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 22:10 Bluelightz wrote:On December 11 2012 22:09 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2012 22:06 Bluelightz wrote:
Is voting necessary when one has suspicions on someone? No. It's up to them when they vote. By saying that you're actually defending Adam against dabears first accusations. Dunno if you even realize that. I'm defending dabears first accusation. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 11:43 debears wrote:
@Djo
The person that I don't like so far is adam. I would arguably say he has been just as, if not more, aggressive with you on thrawn. Yet, he hasn't voted him. He implied heavily that thrawn was scum, yet doesn't think he's scummy when asked directly. Furthermore, he keeps hard questioning thrawn on a response that thrawn basically said he wouldn't say (even though it seems to me that he was joking) even though he said he doesn't think thrawn is scum.
His reaction is feeling very forced The first bolded part is what dabears himself does. The second is word twisting of Adam saying: "If I wanted to call you scummy I would have" into "I don't think he's scummy." And I don't see any scum motivation in hard questioning thrawn. He acted not according to his meta, and that's what made Adam so suspicious of him. How is that scummy???
Go read, Bluelightz mate. I hope you saw the part where Debears said Adam is suspicious for not voting now.
So my guess is that you believe I'm scum?
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On December 12 2012 00:37 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 12 2012 00:05 Vivax wrote:
While Tunkeg's halfassedness is detrimental to town, I start doubting if scum would do it in such an obvious way. In lack of better options, I still consider him to be a valid lynch candidate along with jay (Who I've read from bugs post has a tendency to get mislynched).
While I think debears case against Adam is bad, I don't like his entrance right now. It doesn't look like he's been properly scumhunting lately, just some more half assed questions and statements. Thanks for saying you lean town on me though.
ADAM, who are you gonna vote for if you had to? Right now, I think Tunkeg has a solid chance of flipping scum. His reaction to WBG's case was overly defensive and he's contributed very little. Ill take a closer look in the morning. Its 2am, I am going to bed. Wtf???? You jump from thrawn, to me, to vivax (you made a long post on vivax), and now Tunkeg (and you have said nothing about him) This guys is scum yo
To be fair I don't think he ever called thrawn scum.
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You're starting the same shit you did with Adam, debby. I think your case against Adam was bad, that doesn't necessarily imply you're scum.
Also, I would really enjoy if people put huge quotations into spoilers, it helps in keeping the thread readable.
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He said something like "he's in the I don't know wtf he's doing category" if I recall correctly, cba looking his exact words up.
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On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.
Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch. Aye. Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game) generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going? 
At this point marv, I can see both being scum.
tunkeg has done nothing, got emotional, never saying that WBG was wrong
On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play.
If someone wants to lynch you for meta, and you are town, HOW IN THE FUCK ARE YOU OK WITH THAT?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Adam
When has this dude seriously pushed his targets?
Thrawn - didn't think he was scummy. Just questioning him for shits and giggles
Me - Voted me for a 4 sentence "case" that was a response to a question. Backed down off me pretty quickly
Vivax - made a long post about vivax when he unvoted me. No vote on vivax. No follow up on vivax
Tunkeg - picks someone who could be an easy target for scum (if tun is town) out of nowhere. never mentioned tun the whole game until the bandwagon already started
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On December 12 2012 00:43 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:37 debears wrote:On December 12 2012 00:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 12 2012 00:05 Vivax wrote:
While Tunkeg's halfassedness is detrimental to town, I start doubting if scum would do it in such an obvious way. In lack of better options, I still consider him to be a valid lynch candidate along with jay (Who I've read from bugs post has a tendency to get mislynched).
While I think debears case against Adam is bad, I don't like his entrance right now. It doesn't look like he's been properly scumhunting lately, just some more half assed questions and statements. Thanks for saying you lean town on me though.
ADAM, who are you gonna vote for if you had to? Right now, I think Tunkeg has a solid chance of flipping scum. His reaction to WBG's case was overly defensive and he's contributed very little. Ill take a closer look in the morning. Its 2am, I am going to bed. Wtf???? You jump from thrawn, to me, to vivax (you made a long post on vivax), and now Tunkeg (and you have said nothing about him) This guys is scum yo To be fair I don't think he ever called thrawn scum.
Exactly
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On December 12 2012 00:44 Vivax wrote:
You're starting the same shit you did with Adam, debby. I think your case against Adam was bad, that doesn't necessarily imply you're scum.
Also, I would really enjoy if people put huge quotations into spoilers, it helps in keeping the thread readable.
I'm sorry you don't make your reads clear. My bad
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@ Z-Boson
+ Show Spoiler [for reference] +On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn
I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears 2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. 3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. 1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later. 2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears. You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self. Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum. Yet what do you do? You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself. 3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?
Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game: - The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
- Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
- Giving munk-E a questionable town read
- Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution.
1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention.
2)I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him.
3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected.
The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions.
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So as I'm catching up, I really like a Tunkeg lynch. The first thing that bothered me regarding him was the following equation:
A+B = C
Where A is Tunkeg seems concerned about Djodref (time is 4:23):
On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts:
Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this.
I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips.
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?
B is Z-BosoN made a huge case on Djodref (time is 6:48):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=18#344
And C is Tunkeg doesn't really address it and goes all mr.uncertain on it (time is 7:46):
On December 11 2012 07:46 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 07:38 Vivax wrote:
Counterquestion, Tunkeg:
What do you think of jay and Djodref? Don't you think they are scummy? I refer you to my "useless" first post: Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts:
Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this.
I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips.
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?
They haven't posted much since. But as I said, I think jaybrundage style reminds me of the way he played student (one year ago), and I think in general his way of posting is appearing scummy. For Djordref I think he have posted alot of useless questions, and maybe some usefull ones, maybe to look like he is active. But then again, maybe that is his style. I am not sure what to make of him. I find it strange however that you hadn't picked up on my view on these players, when you were so eager to lynch me. Jumping on the first available bandwagon there is are we?
So I thought it was weird - why isn't he commenting on a case against someone he was already suspicious of?
And I found mr. bugs' meta part of his case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#481
Is very convincing.
But now, Djodref, my main scum read, made a pretty big case on Tunkeg... they can't both be scum right? It'd have to be a pretty ballsy bus coming from Djo.
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Djo you little shit stop sniping me
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On December 12 2012 00:39 debears wrote:
Is anyone else seeing something very weird going on between vivax and adam??????
like really, I'm getting shivers from their interactions
Like, adam making a post about vivax and how he is wary of him without voting him ?
Vivax coming up in the thread and defending adam like if the thread was still at page 15 ?
And Vivax going against Adam after catching up and stuff ?
Yeah, it's strange, but I don't see Vivax as scum because it looks like he genuinely didn't read some part of the thread.
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On December 12 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson+ Show Spoiler [for reference] +On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn
I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears 2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. 3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. 1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later. 2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears. You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self. Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum. Yet what do you do? You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself. 3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?
Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game: - The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
- Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
- Giving munk-E a questionable town read
- Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution. 1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention. 2) I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him. 3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected. The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions.
1) Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies, so it's a small tell, but still a tell. What bugs me is the logic you had regarding debars/thrawn I've already went over.
2) Wait a minute. Bolded part. Whatever happened to:
On December 11 2012 13:01 Djodref wrote:
I've watched Palmar's video and I've changed my mind a little bit about your interactions with Adam. As a result, I would lean town on you and slightly scum on Adam but I'm not yet sold on him being scum.
The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case.
The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point.
Still not keeping your story straight. You say you lean him being town, now you lean him being scum. Worst of all, where is the reasoning, where is the justification for this??
3) It's counter-productive. You are wasting time reassessing a "town-read" you had, and you STILL are flimsy and not moving on:
On December 11 2012 13:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 12:54 thrawn2112 wrote:debears could you respond to the question I asked you at the bottom of page 22? It's in the last post on the page sorta near the bottom of my post. Djo: bleh I've probably waited too long to ask this, but I'd like you to go back to this post. When did you write it in relation to the post you made right before it? Was it one right after the other, did you make them simultaneously, did you write the 2nd one first but post the 1st one 1st, etc. please be as specific as possible @ thrawnThe two posts you are talking about were independent if you are talking about these. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:52 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 14:46 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
So, between Adam and Jay, which one of them should deserve your vote right now ?
Because it looks like to me that the main reason for you to vote Adam is that he asked for your vote and voted against you.
I think Clarity made good points against Jay and I'm also leaning town on thrawn right now. I think I know the reason why he doesn't want to explain himself right now and I don't think that my pressure vote is going to work out.
@ jay
It looks like you are leaning scum on thrawn. Would you care to convince us that he is indeed scum and that we should vote him ?
As you can see, the risk to start an early bandwagon on him is not so big.
##Vote jay
I like Clarity's points on jay, and clarity seems to satisfactorily have jay covered. I'm gonna work on Adam/whoever I feel like So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 14:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
So someone makes a big case on you and you react by saying "glad someone is reading my posts"?
It's not that you don't put your vote where your mouth is, it's the REASON you don't vote. You shouldn't care what's easy and what's not, all you need to care about is who is scum, and try to get your strongest scumread lynched.
I would love it if you linked some games in where you claimed this has happened to you. I would also love it if you walked us through a scum thrawn's reasoning for doing what he did. Lol is my reaction not what you expected Wait a second, the reason i didn't vote is because i don't feel i have too. A vote doesn't mean anything till the end of the cycle. I have been going after thrawn and trying to get him to respond to me. And get some kind of explanation from him. However he has yet to respond to me. THRAWN STOP GAWD DAMN IGNORING ME. And yes i do care if the lynch seems to easy. Because then from my experience, its likely a bus or a townie were killing. I'll try to find the games if i can. Its been almost a year tho. And i already gave you a scum reasoning to do what he did. On December 10 2012 10:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys just finished work ten hour shift zzzz.
Reading up so far. It appears. That thrawn either made a pretty big scum slip. Or maybe he just made a big mistake as town.
There wasn't any point to claiming miller. As if anyone read the OP (as they should it) they would know millers arent self aware.
So first your lying. I only seeing this make sense as scum. If you didnt know that miller was self aware. Then your thought process is that you self claim miller. A you can waste a DT check. Or make DT's ineffective against you.
As town i see no reason to lie about your role. Please give your reasoning. Because as far it doesn't make any sense.
Also I thought the point about debears. Posting a video to not enage in conversation was interesting. Not a scum tell or anything. But a video wont help us find scum some good solid conversation will. alright well I'm tired of the miller claim discussion so here's how it went down from my perspective. At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler +wow big surprise there right? Then people started taking it more seriously than I thought they would so I decided to be dickish about it in order to ignite further discussion. I actually don't mind being a potential mislynch, I think I'm better at discerning scum when they are trying to lynch me. I don't mind a bit of pressure during early D1 if it allows me to make better reads. Also.... anything is better than talking about lurker policy ffs @ thrawnIn fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? Regarding the post you linked, it was the conclusion I came to when I was asking myself why you were being stubborn and not wanting to explain your motivations for your fakeclaim. After my pressure vote on you, I was wondering why a town thrawn would put himself in such a situation and I remembered this post you made about how you liked to be pushed as a mislynched. So, I was ready to post it before your explanation because it was what I was expecting from you. But it was not prepared, just I knew where to find this stuff. It is a strange question. Could I ask you what you are going to do with this info ?
What do you expect to hear? Are you still trying to confirm thrawn as town? Thrawn has been questioned twice already regarding this and the most he said was "bugs came out looking worse".
This is another example of you fooling around trying to look like you are contributing, imo.
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On December 12 2012 00:53 Z-BosoN wrote:
Djo you little shit stop sniping me
I'll stop sniping you when you stop saying I'm your top scumread
Seriously, your case is not bad but it's mainly a collection of inconsistencies from my early game play. It shouldn't be a damning proof for me to be scum. Plus you should know that I ask a lot of questions usually, not all of them relevant.
I'll start to do some scumhunting and I hope you can realize that I'm town.
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On December 12 2012 01:04 Djodref wrote:I'll stop sniping you when you stop saying I'm your top scumread Seriously, your case is not bad but it's mainly a collection of inconsistencies from my early game play. It shouldn't be a damning proof for me to be scum. Plus you should know that I ask a lot of questions usually, not all of them relevant. I'll start to do some scumhunting and I hope you can realize that I'm town.
Who sniped you now huh. Get some
I know you like asking a lot of questions, but usually you go somewhere with them. This game it looks to me like you are asking questions just for the sake of looking like you are contributing.
Example: The thrawn question I just quoted. I cannot for the life of me see the reasoning behind that.
Also, bullet point no. 2 is a swell example of you still not keeping your story straight, and this is something that scum have a really hard time doing.
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I went a little through Djodrefs filter, and fyi, I'm reading it as town. I'm not quoting anything in particular, but I feel that he's been quite proactive, pressuring people, asking questions. While Z-Boson pointed out that early inconsistency, it's not enough for me to get a scumread.
To be honest, I think Z-Boson is focusing on the wrong guy and should rather look around some more.
What I'd rather expect from mafia is rather low activity, coupled with a few, sometimes huge posts going along with town sentiment.
This is obviously a stereotype, but it's also the easiest and safest way to play scum.
Anyway, I think Bluelightz fits very well into this stereotype. Yes, I think he behaves in a scummy way, but I guess noone's in for lynching him?
Count me in for either him, Tunkeg, jay or grush, cause it's grush.
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Z-Boson:
Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies
[citation needed]
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On December 12 2012 01:02 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson+ Show Spoiler [for reference] +On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn
I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears 2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. 3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. 1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later. 2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears. You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self. Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum. Yet what do you do? You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself. 3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?
Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game: - The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
- Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
- Giving munk-E a questionable town read
- Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution. 1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention. 2) I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him. 3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected. The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions. 1) Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies, so it's a small tell, but still a tell. What bugs me is the logic you had regarding debars/thrawn I've already went over.
2) Wait a minute. Bolded part. Whatever happened to: Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 13:01 Djodref wrote:
I've watched Palmar's video and I've changed my mind a little bit about your interactions with Adam. As a result, I would lean town on you and slightly scum on Adam but I'm not yet sold on him being scum.
The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case.
The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point.
Still not keeping your story straight. You say you lean him being town, now you lean him being scum. Worst of all, where is the reasoning, where is the justification for this??
3) It's counter-productive. You are wasting time reassessing a "town-read" you had, and you STILL are flimsy and not moving on: Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 13:12 Djodref wrote:On December 11 2012 12:54 thrawn2112 wrote:debears could you respond to the question I asked you at the bottom of page 22? It's in the last post on the page sorta near the bottom of my post. Djo: bleh I've probably waited too long to ask this, but I'd like you to go back to this post. When did you write it in relation to the post you made right before it? Was it one right after the other, did you make them simultaneously, did you write the 2nd one first but post the 1st one 1st, etc. please be as specific as possible @ thrawnThe two posts you are talking about were independent if you are talking about these. On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:52 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 14:46 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
So, between Adam and Jay, which one of them should deserve your vote right now ?
Because it looks like to me that the main reason for you to vote Adam is that he asked for your vote and voted against you.
I think Clarity made good points against Jay and I'm also leaning town on thrawn right now. I think I know the reason why he doesn't want to explain himself right now and I don't think that my pressure vote is going to work out.
@ jay
It looks like you are leaning scum on thrawn. Would you care to convince us that he is indeed scum and that we should vote him ?
As you can see, the risk to start an early bandwagon on him is not so big.
##Vote jay
I like Clarity's points on jay, and clarity seems to satisfactorily have jay covered. I'm gonna work on Adam/whoever I feel like So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 14:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
So someone makes a big case on you and you react by saying "glad someone is reading my posts"?
It's not that you don't put your vote where your mouth is, it's the REASON you don't vote. You shouldn't care what's easy and what's not, all you need to care about is who is scum, and try to get your strongest scumread lynched.
I would love it if you linked some games in where you claimed this has happened to you. I would also love it if you walked us through a scum thrawn's reasoning for doing what he did. Lol is my reaction not what you expected Wait a second, the reason i didn't vote is because i don't feel i have too. A vote doesn't mean anything till the end of the cycle. I have been going after thrawn and trying to get him to respond to me. And get some kind of explanation from him. However he has yet to respond to me. THRAWN STOP GAWD DAMN IGNORING ME. And yes i do care if the lynch seems to easy. Because then from my experience, its likely a bus or a townie were killing. I'll try to find the games if i can. Its been almost a year tho. And i already gave you a scum reasoning to do what he did. On December 10 2012 10:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys just finished work ten hour shift zzzz.
Reading up so far. It appears. That thrawn either made a pretty big scum slip. Or maybe he just made a big mistake as town.
There wasn't any point to claiming miller. As if anyone read the OP (as they should it) they would know millers arent self aware.
So first your lying. I only seeing this make sense as scum. If you didnt know that miller was self aware. Then your thought process is that you self claim miller. A you can waste a DT check. Or make DT's ineffective against you.
As town i see no reason to lie about your role. Please give your reasoning. Because as far it doesn't make any sense.
Also I thought the point about debears. Posting a video to not enage in conversation was interesting. Not a scum tell or anything. But a video wont help us find scum some good solid conversation will. alright well I'm tired of the miller claim discussion so here's how it went down from my perspective. At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler +wow big surprise there right? Then people started taking it more seriously than I thought they would so I decided to be dickish about it in order to ignite further discussion. I actually don't mind being a potential mislynch, I think I'm better at discerning scum when they are trying to lynch me. I don't mind a bit of pressure during early D1 if it allows me to make better reads. Also.... anything is better than talking about lurker policy ffs @ thrawnIn fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? Regarding the post you linked, it was the conclusion I came to when I was asking myself why you were being stubborn and not wanting to explain your motivations for your fakeclaim. After my pressure vote on you, I was wondering why a town thrawn would put himself in such a situation and I remembered this post you made about how you liked to be pushed as a mislynched. So, I was ready to post it before your explanation because it was what I was expecting from you. But it was not prepared, just I knew where to find this stuff. It is a strange question. Could I ask you what you are going to do with this info ? What do you expect to hear? Are you still trying to confirm thrawn as town? Thrawn has been questioned twice already regarding this and the most he said was "bugs came out looking worse". This is another example of you fooling around trying to look like you are contributing, imo.
1)Okay, I'm just saying that it was the early game and that I didn't follow up my FoS on debears so much because it was not a very serious one.
2)I have Adam as slightly scum. Debears is convinced that Adam is scum. I would lynch Tunkeg and jay before Adam today, I would say that grush might even be a better lynch choice than Adam. This is where I disagree with debears. Basically, I'm not sure that Adam is scum because some points brought against him seem to be exaggerated in my opinion. I would prefer to let him live today so I can have a better read on him when the game goes on.
3)The conversation that you quoted has been initiated by thrawn and I was answering him. His first question was weird and I wanted to know why he asked me it in the first place, it turned out that he was still unsure of my thought process. I hope that things are clear between him and me now. This conversation was productive in my opinion.
I'm not 100% sure that thrawn is town at the moment and it helped me to confirm my view on him. What would be the benefit of a scum Djodref to ask this ?
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