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On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn
I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears 2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. 3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads.
1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later.
2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears.
You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self.
Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum.
Yet what do you do?
You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself.
3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?
Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game:
- The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
- Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
- Giving munk-E a questionable town read
- Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution.
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Well I got power-sniped on that last bullet.
Still something Djo is capable of as scum though.
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So as I'm catching up, I really like a Tunkeg lynch. The first thing that bothered me regarding him was the following equation:
A+B = C
Where A is Tunkeg seems concerned about Djodref (time is 4:23):
On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts:
Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this.
I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips.
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?
B is Z-BosoN made a huge case on Djodref (time is 6:48):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=18#344
And C is Tunkeg doesn't really address it and goes all mr.uncertain on it (time is 7:46):
On December 11 2012 07:46 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 07:38 Vivax wrote:
Counterquestion, Tunkeg:
What do you think of jay and Djodref? Don't you think they are scummy? I refer you to my "useless" first post: Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts:
Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this.
I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips.
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?
They haven't posted much since. But as I said, I think jaybrundage style reminds me of the way he played student (one year ago), and I think in general his way of posting is appearing scummy. For Djordref I think he have posted alot of useless questions, and maybe some usefull ones, maybe to look like he is active. But then again, maybe that is his style. I am not sure what to make of him. I find it strange however that you hadn't picked up on my view on these players, when you were so eager to lynch me. Jumping on the first available bandwagon there is are we?
So I thought it was weird - why isn't he commenting on a case against someone he was already suspicious of?
And I found mr. bugs' meta part of his case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#481
Is very convincing.
But now, Djodref, my main scum read, made a pretty big case on Tunkeg... they can't both be scum right? It'd have to be a pretty ballsy bus coming from Djo.
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Djo you little shit stop sniping me
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On December 12 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson+ Show Spoiler [for reference] +On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn
I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears 2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. 3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. 1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later. 2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears. You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self. Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum. Yet what do you do? You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself. 3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?
Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game: - The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
- Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
- Giving munk-E a questionable town read
- Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution. 1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention. 2) I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him. 3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected. The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions.
1) Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies, so it's a small tell, but still a tell. What bugs me is the logic you had regarding debars/thrawn I've already went over.
2) Wait a minute. Bolded part. Whatever happened to:
On December 11 2012 13:01 Djodref wrote:
I've watched Palmar's video and I've changed my mind a little bit about your interactions with Adam. As a result, I would lean town on you and slightly scum on Adam but I'm not yet sold on him being scum.
The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case.
The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point.
Still not keeping your story straight. You say you lean him being town, now you lean him being scum. Worst of all, where is the reasoning, where is the justification for this??
3) It's counter-productive. You are wasting time reassessing a "town-read" you had, and you STILL are flimsy and not moving on:
On December 11 2012 13:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 12:54 thrawn2112 wrote:debears could you respond to the question I asked you at the bottom of page 22? It's in the last post on the page sorta near the bottom of my post. Djo: bleh I've probably waited too long to ask this, but I'd like you to go back to this post. When did you write it in relation to the post you made right before it? Was it one right after the other, did you make them simultaneously, did you write the 2nd one first but post the 1st one 1st, etc. please be as specific as possible @ thrawnThe two posts you are talking about were independent if you are talking about these. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:52 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 14:46 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
So, between Adam and Jay, which one of them should deserve your vote right now ?
Because it looks like to me that the main reason for you to vote Adam is that he asked for your vote and voted against you.
I think Clarity made good points against Jay and I'm also leaning town on thrawn right now. I think I know the reason why he doesn't want to explain himself right now and I don't think that my pressure vote is going to work out.
@ jay
It looks like you are leaning scum on thrawn. Would you care to convince us that he is indeed scum and that we should vote him ?
As you can see, the risk to start an early bandwagon on him is not so big.
##Vote jay
I like Clarity's points on jay, and clarity seems to satisfactorily have jay covered. I'm gonna work on Adam/whoever I feel like So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 14:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
So someone makes a big case on you and you react by saying "glad someone is reading my posts"?
It's not that you don't put your vote where your mouth is, it's the REASON you don't vote. You shouldn't care what's easy and what's not, all you need to care about is who is scum, and try to get your strongest scumread lynched.
I would love it if you linked some games in where you claimed this has happened to you. I would also love it if you walked us through a scum thrawn's reasoning for doing what he did. Lol is my reaction not what you expected  Wait a second, the reason i didn't vote is because i don't feel i have too. A vote doesn't mean anything till the end of the cycle. I have been going after thrawn and trying to get him to respond to me. And get some kind of explanation from him. However he has yet to respond to me. THRAWN STOP GAWD DAMN IGNORING ME. And yes i do care if the lynch seems to easy. Because then from my experience, its likely a bus or a townie were killing. I'll try to find the games if i can. Its been almost a year tho. And i already gave you a scum reasoning to do what he did. On December 10 2012 10:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys just finished work ten hour shift zzzz.
Reading up so far. It appears. That thrawn either made a pretty big scum slip. Or maybe he just made a big mistake as town.
There wasn't any point to claiming miller. As if anyone read the OP (as they should it) they would know millers arent self aware.
So first your lying. I only seeing this make sense as scum. If you didnt know that miller was self aware. Then your thought process is that you self claim miller. A you can waste a DT check. Or make DT's ineffective against you.
As town i see no reason to lie about your role. Please give your reasoning. Because as far it doesn't make any sense.
Also I thought the point about debears. Posting a video to not enage in conversation was interesting. Not a scum tell or anything. But a video wont help us find scum some good solid conversation will. alright well I'm tired of the miller claim discussion so here's how it went down from my perspective. At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler +wow big surprise there right? Then people started taking it more seriously than I thought they would so I decided to be dickish about it in order to ignite further discussion. I actually don't mind being a potential mislynch, I think I'm better at discerning scum when they are trying to lynch me. I don't mind a bit of pressure during early D1 if it allows me to make better reads. Also.... anything is better than talking about lurker policy ffs @ thrawnIn fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? Regarding the post you linked, it was the conclusion I came to when I was asking myself why you were being stubborn and not wanting to explain your motivations for your fakeclaim. After my pressure vote on you, I was wondering why a town thrawn would put himself in such a situation and I remembered this post you made about how you liked to be pushed as a mislynched. So, I was ready to post it before your explanation because it was what I was expecting from you. But it was not prepared, just I knew where to find this stuff. It is a strange question. Could I ask you what you are going to do with this info ?
What do you expect to hear? Are you still trying to confirm thrawn as town? Thrawn has been questioned twice already regarding this and the most he said was "bugs came out looking worse".
This is another example of you fooling around trying to look like you are contributing, imo.
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On December 12 2012 01:04 Djodref wrote:I'll stop sniping you when you stop saying I'm your top scumread Seriously, your case is not bad but it's mainly a collection of inconsistencies from my early game play. It shouldn't be a damning proof for me to be scum. Plus you should know that I ask a lot of questions usually, not all of them relevant. I'll start to do some scumhunting and I hope you can realize that I'm town.
Who sniped you now huh. Get some
I know you like asking a lot of questions, but usually you go somewhere with them. This game it looks to me like you are asking questions just for the sake of looking like you are contributing.
Example: The thrawn question I just quoted. I cannot for the life of me see the reasoning behind that.
Also, bullet point no. 2 is a swell example of you still not keeping your story straight, and this is something that scum have a really hard time doing.
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On December 12 2012 01:18 Vivax wrote:Z-Boson: [citation needed]
They are because they can't be legit in their scumhunting. This is fairly obvious.
On December 12 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 01:02 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 12 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson+ Show Spoiler [for reference] +On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:@ Z-Boson1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn
I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears 2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. 3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. 1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later. 2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears. You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self. Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum. Yet what do you do? You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself. 3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?
Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game: - The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
- Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
- Giving munk-E a questionable town read
- Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution. 1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention. 2) I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him. 3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected. The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions. 1) Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies, so it's a small tell, but still a tell. What bugs me is the logic you had regarding debars/thrawn I've already went over.
2) Wait a minute. Bolded part. Whatever happened to: On December 11 2012 13:01 Djodref wrote:
I've watched Palmar's video and I've changed my mind a little bit about your interactions with Adam. As a result, I would lean town on you and slightly scum on Adam but I'm not yet sold on him being scum.
The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case.
The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point.
Still not keeping your story straight. You say you lean him being town, now you lean him being scum. Worst of all, where is the reasoning, where is the justification for this??
3) It's counter-productive. You are wasting time reassessing a "town-read" you had, and you STILL are flimsy and not moving on: On December 11 2012 13:12 Djodref wrote:On December 11 2012 12:54 thrawn2112 wrote:debears could you respond to the question I asked you at the bottom of page 22? It's in the last post on the page sorta near the bottom of my post. Djo: bleh I've probably waited too long to ask this, but I'd like you to go back to this post. When did you write it in relation to the post you made right before it? Was it one right after the other, did you make them simultaneously, did you write the 2nd one first but post the 1st one 1st, etc. please be as specific as possible @ thrawnThe two posts you are talking about were independent if you are talking about these. On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:52 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 14:46 Djodref wrote:
@ debears
So, between Adam and Jay, which one of them should deserve your vote right now ?
Because it looks like to me that the main reason for you to vote Adam is that he asked for your vote and voted against you.
I think Clarity made good points against Jay and I'm also leaning town on thrawn right now. I think I know the reason why he doesn't want to explain himself right now and I don't think that my pressure vote is going to work out.
@ jay
It looks like you are leaning scum on thrawn. Would you care to convince us that he is indeed scum and that we should vote him ?
As you can see, the risk to start an early bandwagon on him is not so big.
##Vote jay
I like Clarity's points on jay, and clarity seems to satisfactorily have jay covered. I'm gonna work on Adam/whoever I feel like So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 14:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
So someone makes a big case on you and you react by saying "glad someone is reading my posts"?
It's not that you don't put your vote where your mouth is, it's the REASON you don't vote. You shouldn't care what's easy and what's not, all you need to care about is who is scum, and try to get your strongest scumread lynched.
I would love it if you linked some games in where you claimed this has happened to you. I would also love it if you walked us through a scum thrawn's reasoning for doing what he did. Lol is my reaction not what you expected Wait a second, the reason i didn't vote is because i don't feel i have too. A vote doesn't mean anything till the end of the cycle. I have been going after thrawn and trying to get him to respond to me. And get some kind of explanation from him. However he has yet to respond to me. THRAWN STOP GAWD DAMN IGNORING ME. And yes i do care if the lynch seems to easy. Because then from my experience, its likely a bus or a townie were killing. I'll try to find the games if i can. Its been almost a year tho. And i already gave you a scum reasoning to do what he did. On December 10 2012 10:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys just finished work ten hour shift zzzz.
Reading up so far. It appears. That thrawn either made a pretty big scum slip. Or maybe he just made a big mistake as town.
There wasn't any point to claiming miller. As if anyone read the OP (as they should it) they would know millers arent self aware.
So first your lying. I only seeing this make sense as scum. If you didnt know that miller was self aware. Then your thought process is that you self claim miller. A you can waste a DT check. Or make DT's ineffective against you.
As town i see no reason to lie about your role. Please give your reasoning. Because as far it doesn't make any sense.
Also I thought the point about debears. Posting a video to not enage in conversation was interesting. Not a scum tell or anything. But a video wont help us find scum some good solid conversation will. alright well I'm tired of the miller claim discussion so here's how it went down from my perspective. At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler +wow big surprise there right? Then people started taking it more seriously than I thought they would so I decided to be dickish about it in order to ignite further discussion. I actually don't mind being a potential mislynch, I think I'm better at discerning scum when they are trying to lynch me. I don't mind a bit of pressure during early D1 if it allows me to make better reads. Also.... anything is better than talking about lurker policy ffs @ thrawnIn fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? Regarding the post you linked, it was the conclusion I came to when I was asking myself why you were being stubborn and not wanting to explain your motivations for your fakeclaim. After my pressure vote on you, I was wondering why a town thrawn would put himself in such a situation and I remembered this post you made about how you liked to be pushed as a mislynched. So, I was ready to post it before your explanation because it was what I was expecting from you. But it was not prepared, just I knew where to find this stuff. It is a strange question. Could I ask you what you are going to do with this info ? What do you expect to hear? Are you still trying to confirm thrawn as town? Thrawn has been questioned twice already regarding this and the most he said was "bugs came out looking worse". This is another example of you fooling around trying to look like you are contributing, imo. 1)Okay, I'm just saying that it was the early game and that I didn't follow up my FoS on debears so much because it was not a very serious one. 2)I have Adam as slightly scum. Debears is convinced that Adam is scum. I would lynch Tunkeg and jay before Adam today, I would say that grush might even be a better lynch choice than Adam. This is where I disagree with debears. Basically, I'm not sure that Adam is scum because some points brought against him seem to be exaggerated in my opinion. I would prefer to let him live today so I can have a better read on him when the game goes on. 3)The conversation that you quoted has been initiated by thrawn and I was answering him. His first question was weird and I wanted to know why he asked me it in the first place, it turned out that he was still unsure of my thought process. I hope that things are clear between him and me now. This conversation was productive in my opinion. I'm not 100% sure that thrawn is town at the moment and it helped me to confirm my view on him. What would be the benefit of a scum Djodref to ask this ?
Hm, I didn't see you were answering thrawn.
Well, I'm pummeling you for being inconsistent and not keeping your story straight. I view this as a small tell, which was augmented by the rest of your posting (not scumhunting). Until your case on Tunkeg you had zero scum hunting and some fluff, which is why I really thought you to be scum.
I certainly see you as scum being capable of writing such a case, but I'll have to reassess and see what other people make of your posts and our exchange.
You're not getting lynched today and we need to consolidate... so
##Unvote
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On December 12 2012 01:33 marvellosity wrote:
The thing I like least about jay at the moment is where his vote is parked.
Z-Bo, what's your opinion then between Tunkeg and Djodref? Which is more likely to be scum now if you think it's unlikely it's a bus? I don't see you write anything at all on Adam, what's your read on him?
Well, after thinking about it, it's much more likely that they can't both be scum.
I have a much easier time thinking Tunkeg being scum and Djo being town.
The bit I posted earlier about Tunkeg not responding AT ALL to my case on Djo makes me think that he already KNEW that Djo was town, and thus didn't really make too much of it. I feel that if both of them were scum then Tunkeg would most likely be all over Djo as well...
So I'll stick to Tunkeg.
Regarding Adam, I am of the view that debears is making waaay too much of his posts. Since both you and palmar like his lynch, I'm going to read his filter right now and see if he's a better lynch than Tunkeg.
##Vote Tunkeg
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Well, like I said, debears seems to be doing some massive twisting of words to me.
What I found suspicious on Adam's filter is this contradiction in his idea of a case -> vote relationship, which I'd like him to explain.
He first criticizes debears for not voting him after making a case and votes him:
On December 10 2012 13:07 Adam4167 wrote:In fact, why are you not voting me dabears? Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 11:43 debears wrote:
@Djo
The person that I don't like so far is adam. I would arguably say he has been just as, if not more, aggressive with you on thrawn. Yet, he hasn't voted him. He implied heavily that thrawn was scum, yet doesn't think he's scummy when asked directly. Furthermore, he keeps hard questioning thrawn on a response that thrawn basically said he wouldn't say (even though it seems to me that he was joking) even though he said he doesn't think thrawn is scum.
His reaction is feeling very forced You say you don't like me (I assume this means you think i'm scum?), you find my lack of vote strange and that my reactions feel forced. Why make a case like this if you aren't going to follow it with a vote? ##Vote: dabears
This is funny to say the least, because later on, though, when he's made a case on vivax, here's his stance when questioned on why he wasn't voting vivax:
On December 11 2012 23:35 Adam4167 wrote:
I wanted to see what you had to say about my case before I made a definitive call on you.
Your response was interesting to me, because while you openly admit to not reading the thread and making shit accusations, I honestly wouldn't ever expect that level of honesty from a scum.
I mean, it's ok that he makes a huge case and doesn't vote, but when debears did that it made him scum? Weird.
Since we need to consolidate though, I am more confident in a Tunkeg lynch at the moment.
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On December 12 2012 02:04 marvellosity wrote:
The number of people 'uncomfortable' or whatever word you want to use about Adam's lynch makes me feel quite good about it at the moment.
Why do you think he's a better lynch than tunkeg?
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Hiro, you aren't counting my vote on Tunkeg.
Hm. Tunkeg's appeal looks to me like a martyr of some sort. Why wait for a wagon on him to dish out reads?
Anyways, I'm not sure I'd like a BL lynch. Clarity's case on him feels forced, and I'm really not feeling him being scum.
Here's three reasons on why Tunkeg is the best lynch we have.
1. Equation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=32#632
(this makes little sense from a town perspective)
2. Meta: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#481
3. Lack of Scumhunting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&user=225844
@marv: After reading the above, do you still figure this:
On December 11 2012 12:13 marvellosity wrote:
yes. Maybe I've been infected by Palmar o.o
Seriously though, for Tunkeg it's the absence of towniness, for Adam it's the presence of a scum mindset (oops! treated you as town there for a minute... back to shouting at you again!)
Because, afaik, Adam actually went after vivax and has some signs of being interested in the game. You know his meta better than I, but Tunkeg's just not feeling right, especially with bit #1 and #3.
Also, what is your say on point #2? Bug's meta examples were pretty convincing.
@Clarity_nl: actually hold on there buddy.
Here you show that jay was your top scumread and you clearly wanted to lynch him:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=423&topic_id=384953
Here you say that you don't like an Adam lynch:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=24#464
And here you say that you enjoy a Tunkeg lynch:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=26#509
But then you suddenly make a case on BL and try to make a wagon on him. If you really enjoyed a Tunkeg lynch, then why aren't you at least commenting on it or on the cases that stand on it? Why is BL a better choice than Tunkeg? Whatever happened do Jay?? Don't you still find him scum? What has he done to change your opinion of him?
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Vivax, you were sure quick to jump on that weren't you...
It's fairly obvious that was a hypothetical supposition.
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Oopsies daisies!
There, voted.
Clarity, if you are as certain as you seemed earlier that he's scum, why aren't you pushing him?
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Sniped. Hmm.
It's weird though, if you are looking for other scum candidates and trying to pull wagons on them, that means that you aren't satisfied with a Tunkeg lynch. If you aren't satisfied, why don't you explain this?
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I won't be around for the deadline, gonna be pulling some massive weights, but I insist we go for tunkeg.
I really don't like how little resistance there is to adam's lynch, look how easily it took off. Compare this to tunkeg, for example.
Adam is a lurky player by nature, so that makes me even more not confident.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, there's no way I'm sheeping debears
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If not Tunkeg, I'd be satisfied with a jay lynch. Dudes gone awol and his recent posting is not at all acceptable.
I really need to leave in a couple of minutes.
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nice sniping me jay.
and yea, thrawn, that's a nono. I'm too cute for that.
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Ok, now I really gotta go.
I'm not really feeling bluelightz or jay yet, tbh.
Adam I feel he's just being a lurky town.
Sticking with Tunkeg.
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On December 12 2012 08:57 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 08:43 Djodref wrote:
I'll switch back my vote to Tunkeg if you guys change your mind last minute for the time I'm taking a shower !
##Unvote
##Vote Tunkeg Djo you really don't want to lynch Adam huh?
Stop it, he's my minion. Leave him be.
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Well fuck you debears you lucky snot
DJo, I didn't spend all my time tunneling you, don't flatter yourself.
One of the reasons I actually went for tunkeg was because of his reaction (or lack thereof) to my case on you.
Now, I think vivax and bugs came off looking really really bad after the flip.
Vivax. Let us take a gander.
His mindset was 100% not inclined towards killing Adam. I mean, look at some of his posts:
States clear disinterest in lynching Adam:
On December 12 2012 01:51 Vivax wrote:
ffs I don't wanna get Adam lynched.
Let's get jay cmon, just cause he's out of attention doesn't mean he didn't act scumm.y
Shows some soft-suspicion towards Tunkeg:
On December 12 2012 02:37 Vivax wrote:
Wtf Tunkeg, can't you share your reads some earlier instead of going martyr-mode at this time.
Then he includes Adam, but as a last option:
On December 12 2012 06:23 Vivax wrote:
Either Bluelightz, Jay or Tunk.
The initial case against Adam was pretty bad, but his latest activity isn't exactly townie, since he's not been doing anything useful nor defending himself much. He's the last option for me.
Then suddenly, WAM BAM KAPLOW. Soft-suspicion on tunkeg yet again (???) and VOTE ADAM
On December 12 2012 06:40 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 06:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Don't worry I am not pissed at anyone, I just don't mind getting lynched all that much. I have given you my reads, and me as flipped town gives strenght to my arguements. Dude, that's a really bad attitude. You have 1000 ways to strengthen your arguments other than to accept a mislynch just like that. And even if everybody follows your arguments after that, which is as unlikely as it was before, you still might be super wrong about them, so it also shows you are pretty cocky about your opinion. (Or maybe you're scum who has succeeded in fooling us all) Anyway, 6 votes on Adam so far, count me in for the last 3. I like what grush had to say in this one. Inbefore OMG HE'S BANDWAGONING.
##Unvote
##Vote Adam
Why the soft-suspicion on tunkeg? Why the change of heart? Let's see what happens between the last two posts I quoted. There is just this post from grush:
On December 12 2012 06:25 grush57 wrote:
That's pretty reasonable. I'm a bit cautious of Bluelightz because he is a vet. Jay strikes me as a foolish townie and Tunk is probably a noobie. I want to vote Adam because he is reminding me of his scum play.
And the post that he quoted from tunkeg, where he added some soft-suspicion yet again. There was no reason to change his mind from a townie perspective, especially with four hours left on the clock. Plenty of time to push his "alternatives". I think he must have assumed that he wouldn't be able to save Adam and decided to bus him.
wherebugsgo is also looking bad as shit.
He made this significant post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#481
Which made perfect sense at the time (so much in fact that I decided to use part of it). What does it for me though is this. In the post I linked above, here's what he has to say about Adam:
There's one thing putting me off from Adam, and that's the fact that he pointed out thrawn's post from Acme regarding his view of millers claiming day 1. It's not as indicative of towniness as something obscure being pointed out in the defense of someone, but it is something to keep note of regardless. Otherwise, whatever. I'm going to ignore him for now since there are bigger fish to fry.
Here he shows slight suspicion, but, in his own words, there are bigger fish to fry. This shows reluctance and unwillingness to lynch Adam.
On this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#482
He says this:
I'd be fine with killing Munk-E as well today, and honestly between Tunkeg and Munk-E IMO we are almost certain to have scum. Any other lynches for now I'm not going to bother with, since there is nothing worse in the thread than what either of these players have posted.
Here he shows a fair amount of certainty that one of the two are scum. He does not include Adam.
His next post is also consistent with his mindset of not wanting to kill Adam. Here's what he says to thrawn:
On December 11 2012 14:53 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 14:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
wbg, when marv first voted for tunkeg I liked his case. I agree with yours too and I could lynch tunkeg tomorrow. What are your thoughts on marv voting tunkeg and recently changing to voting adam? what the fuck, tomorrow? who are you voting on today then, Adam? I think he was convinced by the wave of people wanting to kill Adam. It happens to everyone, and it's often why I ignore people's posts before I make my own reads. (I've noticed this trend over a long period of games-if I follow my own reads I'm often closer to being correct than if I let other people influence me)
The tone in which he says "wave of people wanting to kill Adam" seems to me like that of undermining. Bugs does not agree with the wagon on Adam.
All of which I've shown so far indicate the mindset in which it is crystal clear he doesn't like an Adam lynch. This is a mindset that scum would have at the point in time in which bugs' post was made. Now note how this mindset is completely broken with this next post:
On December 11 2012 17:23 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy. I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum. On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? VE gimme your thoughts on thrash After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice sonAnd it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone? On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:
"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."
I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt. @ JayI read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either. The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out. It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em? Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : / I call people dumb or idiots? So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy? I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundageI'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one... VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay? On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.
In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.
However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p + Show Spoiler +haha I just found that really funny for some reason So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then). If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town. You WERE scumhunting in those games. You were also doing stupid shit, but that has nothing to do with it. I'm not lying at all. However you've done nothing to prove that you are town this game. You just complain about my case and yet you still have no reads. I've shown conclusively that on d1 as town you have concrete reads. This game you have none and you clearly have no intention of coming up with them any time soon. There is no evidence to suggest that you've simply decided to change your gameplay all of a sudden either, and your entire defense hinges on that point. If there is a recent game that suggests this, I am all open to read it. However, the fact that you complain in this manner is highly suggestive that you are scum. To everyone else:
If you're not voting Tunkeg, Adam, or Munk-E today I want to hear why and I want to also convince you that you should move your vote. Preferably, to Tunkeg.
He suddenly casually includes Adam in his group of people to be lynched. Read above what I've posted on how this is NOT in agreement with the mindset he displayed earlier. This seems to me like scum casually throwing in a scumbuddy in their lists. There was no reason whatsoever for bugs to include that name in there, as he didn't mention a single post or give a single explanation of his inclusion of Adam as a suspicious dude. Nothing happened in between these two posts that, to me, could have possibly changed bugs' mind.
He spends a bunch of posts later furthering his cause on Tunkeg, pushing his lynch. He then proceeds to include Adam as a second top scumread in his next posts, again, without any sort of explanation.
Then suddenly:
On December 11 2012 22:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm going to go and reread Adam's posts, since Palmar's reads make me uncertain that he is town. If he's not town then it's certainly possible Adam is just off his game for whatever reason.
He feels compelled to assess Adam's posts to check if Adam is scum. Note that this decision, the decision to include Adam as scum, came much much earlier than this other post. Why didn't bugs explain his sudden scum-read earlier??.
Also, from this same post, he says that he is going to go and reread Adam's posts. Needless to say, there is no conclusion made by himself regarding adam. He asks marv to convince him:
On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.
Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.
During consolidation, the most critical part of day one, bugs takes the day off and just doesn't post. Only comes back when his opinion doesn't make a difference. This is the easiest way there is for scum to not make any commitment. I mean, he had a fair case on Tunkeg right? Making the decision when a huge wagon on Adam (his scumbuddy) is at hand is pretty scary as scum. So yea, he took the day off and decided to post when it wouldn't have really made a difference:
On December 12 2012 09:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
Are we killing Adam? Tunkeg? What's going on?
I have a final in an hour so I've been cramming, apologies for not being around.
I don't really like smacking people for IRL stuff, but I dunno, seems pretty damn convenient, especially in the context in which he was at.
tl;dr
Bugs and vivax look really bad imo. I like my case on bugs the best. Please read it carefully and tell me what you guys think.
I will assess my town reads next.
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EPT
