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debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 10 2012 16:25 GMT
#261
@Bluelightz

Did you realize that the post you quoted from me was a response to clarity about thoughts on his case?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 16:27 GMT
#262
On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote:
Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up?


this is possibly the worst attempt at discreditation I've ever seen. Firstly I said it was 80%, not 2/3, I said it should have been 2/3 when Djo pointed out there were 6 afk players and not 5. The fact that you mix the two numbers is really shady.

Why do I need any further explanation than anything I've already given? I've already stated that I don't find anyone who has already posted to be scummy. That leaves 6 players with 4 scum left. Just on a preliminary basis that means any of those 6 has a 2/3 chance of being scum.

On December 11 2012 01:02 Munk-E wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 00:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote:
Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up?


for a first post I don't like how 'irrelevant' this one is. people questioning each other about arbitrary percentages never results in anything useful. munk-e, please get to other stuff from the thread asap


I just find it strange how he went from maybe or maybe not policy voting you,(he didn't make it clear either way, which seems like a way to cover his ass in case he made a mistake) to very heavily and arbitrarily tunneling palmer, with no evidence when he had 5 people with the exact same case against them. It doesn't make any sense to me.

I mean, he goes from out of nowhere accusing palmer saying he's 80% sure he's mafia, based on absolutely nothing, to when people ask him about it saying "woah, I didn't say i was certain he was scum"

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
How many of them are there?

How many scum are probably in this game?

What did I say was my certainty on Palmar being scum?

Don't force me to treat you like you're dumb.


Then he lowers the percentage of palmer being scum, probably so if he flips town, he doesn't seem as guilty.


It just seems weird to me.


Try reading more carefully next time.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 16:28 GMT
#263
On December 11 2012 01:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 01:12 marvellosity wrote:
bugs & Palmar both very strong town, VE not too shabby either.

Is there a reason you're asking?


Yeah, I was wondering if the scumteam would let scum Munk-E post what he did post against WBG, assuming he is town, or even if he is scum himself.
Newbies don't go generally after the vets like this, especially if they are scum, because they know they should be careful with such guy and such guy from some other experienced player in the scumQT.
So, basically, my point is that Munk-E doesn't seem to know about WBG reputation or whatever so I lean town on him because it leads me to think he doesn't have extra-info.
I'm for giving him some slack and letting him post his thoughts without pressuring him to much. I don't want him to go into "newbie shell mode", especially if he is town, and I currently think there are greater chances for this than him being scum.


this is WIFOM and overthinking all in one.

Very rarely from my experience are scumteams organized at all this early in the game (or, for that matter, ever). Individual players don't tend to think very much about smaller posts, it's really only the larger posts and the overarching ideas (such as bussing/pushing wagons) that are coordinated.
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
December 10 2012 16:32 GMT
#264
On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone?

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:

"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."

I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that.


His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt.

@ Jay

I read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either.

The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out.

It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em?

Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : /
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 10 2012 16:35 GMT
#265
On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone?

On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:

"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."

I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that.


His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt.

@ Jay

I read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either.

The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out.

It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em?

Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : /


I call people dumb or idiots?

So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2012 16:36 GMT
#266
On December 10 2012 23:30 Djodref wrote:
@ WBG

We have now 4 people that have not contributed at all since the beginning of this game (Munk-E, Z-Boson, Vivax and Tunkeg). Palmar has made clear when he would be able to start to participate which is at least better than these 4 others.
I don't know all the players in this game, and I don't why/if the host would have chosen Palmar to be in the scumteam for balance reason.
So I am now under the impression that you are using Palmar as an excuse to not comment on the other players in this game.

What about Bluelightz ? Are you familiar with him ?
Any comment you would do on his entrance in the thread ?


And what about you? You casually mention BL in a question about whether he and I are considered vets too, so you seem interested in him somehow.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
December 10 2012 16:39 GMT
#267
On December 11 2012 01:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 01:25 Djodref wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:12 marvellosity wrote:
bugs & Palmar both very strong town, VE not too shabby either.

Is there a reason you're asking?


Yeah, I was wondering if the scumteam would let scum Munk-E post what he did post against WBG, assuming he is town, or even if he is scum himself.
Newbies don't go generally after the vets like this, especially if they are scum, because they know they should be careful with such guy and such guy from some other experienced player in the scumQT.
So, basically, my point is that Munk-E doesn't seem to know about WBG reputation or whatever so I lean town on him because it leads me to think he doesn't have extra-info.
I'm for giving him some slack and letting him post his thoughts without pressuring him to much. I don't want him to go into "newbie shell mode", especially if he is town, and I currently think there are greater chances for this than him being scum.


this is WIFOM and overthinking all in one.

Very rarely from my experience are scumteams organized at all this early in the game (or, for that matter, ever). Individual players don't tend to think very much about smaller posts, it's really only the larger posts and the overarching ideas (such as bussing/pushing wagons) that are coordinated.


I'm speaking from my own experience as a newbie scum in a "real game with vets", the Looney Lynching Game. When I joined the scumQT, Hiro and OriginalName were already discussing about when to kill sandroba or mementoss. So I had naturally avoided interactions with these players. I was also asking for some advice like "should I go after this guy?" and stuff like that.
I didn't find Munk-E post against very good but I would expect this kind of posts coming from a newbie town rather than from a newbie scum. Moreover, I think we should give him some slack so he doesn't feel scared to post, regardless of his alignment. It's pretty easy to read town newbies if you let them share their thoughts quite freely imho. And if he scum, we should be able to discover it pretty quickly, and his partners should bus him anyway ^^
Munk-E
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States672 Posts
December 10 2012 16:44 GMT
#268
On December 11 2012 01:10 Djodref wrote:
@ Munk-E

Could you confirm me that it's only your second game on these forums ?
You get yourself lynched D1 or D2 for being inactive in a newbie lately, am I right ?

Weird scum or weird town for WBG ?
By the way, the way he phrased it didn't exactly mean he was 80% sure he was mafia. It was a preliminary thing, so I understood it as valuable only for this early game.



This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old.

Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough.

as for WBG, the more i think about it, the more I think he's more likely to be town. If he was scum, this play would either be to bus palmer if he's scum, which would be stupid and unnecessary, or to try to start a bandwagon on him if he's town, which would most likely be futile. He could be trying to appear to be an aggressive scumhunter, attacking harmless enemies though, so he seems town, but then again, aggressive scumhunting seems town.

I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers.
You recognise me because of my signature!
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 10 2012 16:45 GMT
#269
Munk-E lurked hard in his newbie game djo.

@Munk-E

Please come sit down at the mafia campfire. We have smores, ghost stories, and kum baya

We would like an insight into your mind
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2012 16:46 GMT
#270
On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 01:10 Djodref wrote:
@ Munk-E

Could you confirm me that it's only your second game on these forums ?
You get yourself lynched D1 or D2 for being inactive in a newbie lately, am I right ?

Weird scum or weird town for WBG ?
By the way, the way he phrased it didn't exactly mean he was 80% sure he was mafia. It was a preliminary thing, so I understood it as valuable only for this early game.



This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old.

Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough.

as for WBG, the more i think about it, the more I think he's more likely to be town. If he was scum, this play would either be to bus palmer if he's scum, which would be stupid and unnecessary, or to try to start a bandwagon on him if he's town, which would most likely be futile. He could be trying to appear to be an aggressive scumhunter, attacking harmless enemies though, so he seems town, but then again, aggressive scumhunting seems town.

I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers.


this is confusing. You think him calling Palmar scum is aggressive scumhunting, or?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
December 10 2012 16:49 GMT
#271
On December 11 2012 01:36 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 23:30 Djodref wrote:
@ WBG

We have now 4 people that have not contributed at all since the beginning of this game (Munk-E, Z-Boson, Vivax and Tunkeg). Palmar has made clear when he would be able to start to participate which is at least better than these 4 others.
I don't know all the players in this game, and I don't why/if the host would have chosen Palmar to be in the scumteam for balance reason.
So I am now under the impression that you are using Palmar as an excuse to not comment on the other players in this game.

What about Bluelightz ? Are you familiar with him ?
Any comment you would do on his entrance in the thread ?


And what about you? You casually mention BL in a question about whether he and I are considered vets too, so you seem interested in him somehow.


I was more interested in the relations that WBG and BL could have together. I've briefly skimmed through some of jay's linked games and I've noticed that Palmar, WBG, BL, VE and jay were already playing together in the Hammer Mini Mafia game. So I've assumed they knew each other play from this time so I wanted to know if WBG had really more reasons to suspect Palmar to be in the mafia rather than BL (prior to BL first post) or any reason not to comment on BL's vote.

From Bl's OP, it looks like he is going to participate more soon, but for the moment we are kind of on the same line of thoughts, so I'm not really worrying about him.
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 10 2012 16:54 GMT
#272
@Munk-E

I have found that scum usually stick in the lurking/semi-lurking crowd, seeing at it is hard to maintain an active, scumhunting appearance as scum.

How helpful is lurking for town? Not at all

Granted, we still have a few hours til halfway thru d1. But, missing (3/4?) people in a 16 player game is a huge chunk of the game.

Also, didn't WBG say he wasn't going after the other lurkers?????????

On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 01:10 Djodref wrote:
@ Munk-E

Could you confirm me that it's only your second game on these forums ?
You get yourself lynched D1 or D2 for being inactive in a newbie lately, am I right ?

Weird scum or weird town for WBG ?
By the way, the way he phrased it didn't exactly mean he was 80% sure he was mafia. It was a preliminary thing, so I understood it as valuable only for this early game.



This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old.

Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough.

as for WBG, the more i think about it, the more I think he's more likely to be town. If he was scum, this play would either be to bus palmer if he's scum, which would be stupid and unnecessary, or to try to start a bandwagon on him if he's town, which would most likely be futile. He could be trying to appear to be an aggressive scumhunter, attacking harmless enemies though, so he seems town, but then again, aggressive scumhunting seems town.

I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers.


On December 10 2012 23:30 Djodref wrote:
@ WBG

We have now 4 people that have not contributed at all since the beginning of this game (Munk-E, Z-Boson, Vivax and Tunkeg). Palmar has made clear when he would be able to start to participate which is at least better than these 4 others.
I don't know all the players in this game, and I don't why/if the host would have chosen Palmar to be in the scumteam for balance reason.
So I am now under the impression that you are using Palmar as an excuse to not comment on the other players in this game.

What about Bluelightz ? Are you familiar with him ?
Any comment you would do on his entrance in the thread ?



On December 10 2012 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why would I comment on people I don't think are scum?

I don't understand this line of questioning.


Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22405 Posts
December 10 2012 17:11 GMT
#273
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&currentpage=7#123

Thrawn posting that his post has a purpose.

www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17192357

VE defending thrawn based on meta, and that it's gotta be a joke.

So apparently, VE either didn't read thrawns posts, or he believes that the purpose thrawn speaks about is that of making a joke.
VE responded to a question from jay with this post.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2012 17:11 GMT
#274
as I read it that was bugs saying he wasn't commenting on BL, so no bugs didn't say he wouldn't be going after the other lurkers

why am I finding it so hard to engage you in conversation on your read of Adam??
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
December 10 2012 17:22 GMT
#275
On December 11 2012 02:11 marvellosity wrote:
as I read it that was bugs saying he wasn't commenting on BL, so no bugs didn't say he wouldn't be going after the other lurkers

why am I finding it so hard to engage you in conversation on your read of Adam??


@ marv

And who is this post addressed to ?
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2012 17:26 GMT
#276
it was to debears
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 10 2012 17:30 GMT
#277
o.O marv i didnt see the response right after my post
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
December 10 2012 17:33 GMT
#278
well the response was pretty unlikely to come before your post dear
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Tunkeg
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Norway1235 Posts
December 10 2012 17:35 GMT
#279
Hi guys, back from work now. Will read up and give my thoughts after I have eaten.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
December 10 2012 17:39 GMT
#280
On December 11 2012 02:11 Vivax wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&currentpage=7#123

Thrawn posting that his post has a purpose.

www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17192357

VE defending thrawn based on meta, and that it's gotta be a joke.

So apparently, VE either didn't read thrawns posts, or he believes that the purpose thrawn speaks about is that of making a joke.
VE responded to a question from jay with this post.


@ Vivax

What was the point of this post ?
We absolutely need your analysis and your thoughts about what you present us. This was kind of useless...

What's your experience on mafia games on forum ? Do you know any of the other players ?
Anything you would like to precise about VE or thrawn ?
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