EPTSo rusty.
Paranoia Mafia
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
So rusty. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 29 2012 03:54 debears wrote: Yeah I'd say he's just a chicken without a head that happens to find gold once in a while Good Sir, I am writing to inquire as to where one might purchase such a gold-finding chicken. The missus and I have been training gold-finding ferrets and gold-finding cod for a decade now, with no success to be shown for our efforts. Warmest Regards, austinmcc | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 30 2012 10:21 debears wrote: @Marv Do you have links to your 3 games before rockband mini? From start date closest to rockband moving backwards Mini - GSL Open Mini - NMMIII Themed - Death Note Normal - Mad Men No guarantees on getting all, but those are games from just before rockband mini | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 30 2012 10:54 debears wrote: Care to tell me why they are mostly meh? specifically on the one about the marv town read, the dandel vote, and the doyouhas vote I find it odd that you pick out one of my least important posts while ignoring my more important ones and find me scummy from it Your votes, in particular, aren't very important. On November 30 2012 10:21 debears wrote: Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective. ##Vote Dandel @Dandel So you're going to discredit yourself amongst these players by calling yourself a noob? That doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. Also, were you being sarcastic earlier in how serious you were saying we shouldn't joke and stuff? On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote: Then you quickly drop a new vote on DoYouHas. Because...you don't think that you would sheep Ace because he's Ace. DoYouHas does NOT want people sheeping Ace based on reputation. You want the same, but vote him because he said that?That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote ##Vote DoYouHas What exactly is your reasoning for voting DoYouHas? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote: Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: On November 30 2012 09:15 Dandel Ion wrote: I'm a noob too, and you already lynched me  So inconsistant He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post. | ||
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austinmcc
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If both players you voted for are "scummy as shit," why move your vote? | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote: Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it. ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote: I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving. The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 01:04 marvellosity wrote: austin, what would you say the difference between Zealos and BH was? BH has been overtly trolly. Apart from posting links, he's just made comments that don't matter and posted a kanye video. Couple things: Zealos voted, traded dumb comments with the guy he voted, and unvoted. At the very least, that shows more ... participation in the game than BH. Whereas BH dropped a dumb vote on someone, Zealos unvoted his dumb vote, showing that it wasn't pure trolling, to some extent he cared where it was. That's a major difference for me, he's trolling but ... caring about the game in a way that BH isn't right now. Also, during one of the few discussions that have happened in thread, Zealos adds his thoughts about asking questions and how it helps find mafia. He constructs a real post, with words and thoughts, but when you read it there's just not much there. It's minor advice that doesn't do anything for the thread, and he doesn't actually do anything with it. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 01:20 marvellosity wrote: Alright, what I expected  For how long would BH's trolliness have to continue before you started regarding it with suspicion (if at all)? My gut reaction was to say that he's been gone a bit, sleeping/not here/whatever, and that if he returns purely trolling, then I'd be worried, but if he returns with anything else than I won't. Which is stupid, and telegraphs how I'll read him, and blah blah. As I typed that, I realize I actually don't care about his trolling. If he's scum, he'll eventually get killed for it because other players will mind, and if he only trolls then he has no control over the game, can't really influence anything. Which is fine by me. If he's town and trolling, I trust him to eventually un-troll. So while I'd prefer a helpful BH, I don't think I'm actually going to be suspicious of him if he continues trolling, unless we're getting mid-late game and I've got townreads on a lot of the remaining players. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote: Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Some of what he's posted has been rubbish. But he actively participated and generated rubbish, when something dumb led to people wanting to lynch him, he responded to that with more dumb stuff. Gut read on that is mildly townie, because he shows no desire to shape up after seeing that his play may get him some votes. He followed up on his CONFIDENCE question to debears. I have no idea what that speech is, but the fact that he followed up again shows me that he's participating and maybe not just for show. All in all, his play currently makes me want to skip his posts and not read them, but doesn't make me want to lynch him. Mild town read, but a lot of that is stemming from it being D1 so there isn't oodles to go on. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 01:41 Lazermonkey wrote: But with this logic wouldn't trolly BH get killed as well. That's kinda bad imo. Assuming he is town that is ; ) Yes, trolly BH would eventually get killed. But trolly BH knows that. I assume he'll stop at some point before that happens. So I really don't care if his trolliness continues. If he's town, either he stops, or maybe takes a shot from scum (trying to get rid of a good player before that player contributes anything useful), and so in my mind he either becomes useful or the problem of reading him solves itself. | ||
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austinmcc
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I personally find doyouhas's posts legible and pretty clear about what he's thinking. That said, his couple posts are mainly focused on debears/ace, and while his last post ends with On November 30 2012 12:05 DoYouHas wrote: You want to kill me off by blowing a small thing in my first post out of proportion. I've explained my intent twice now. Either you are happy with it or you are not. I'm moving on. he doesn't actually "move on." At least not to anywhere we can see. Do you have (tee hee) an overall feel of doyouhas at the moment? Moving on from doyouhas, how are you feeling about debears? I find his justifications for voting DoYouHas poor, and I disagree with his interpretation of DoYouHas's thoughts on Ace...pretty hard. That alone isn't scummy, but he's very focused in on this one topic, yet drops a top gun picture in the middle of his discussion, and never follows up after DoYouHas posts that he's moving on but never moves on. If DoYouHas saying he's moving on but not doing so sticks in my head as something interesting, I don't know why it's not doing the same for debears, especially as his vote is still on DYH. Overall, I'm lightly scummy on debears because of the DYH stuff. Disclaimer, I've only read debears posts in obs qts, and found him to be generally interested in the entirety of the game, what everyone was doing. Some of my read is him not...trying to figure out the game here in the same way I've seen him post in obs qts, but obs and in game are a bit different. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 02:06 debears wrote: Ausin, answer this please I would say that arguably, players like Marv, BH, and VE have good reputations also. Maybe not quite up to Ace's, but still pretty good. Also, in a game loaded with veterans, why is DoYou so worried about sheeping? Vets seem to be the majority this game, meaning they know better than to mindlessly sheep See where I'm going? Other plays have good reputations, yes. However, I think you're overblowing the extent to which DYH was focused on this whole sheeping thing. He mentions Ace. You ask why he's focused on Ace. He responds with what I feel to be a clear and logical comment - he wants to explain his feelings (awww) and doesn't want people sheeping Ace. I'm fine with that. In my mind, your response and vote, where you note that you wouldn't sheep someone based on reputation, twists and adds too much importance to what he said. You asked a question; he responded clearly. You may disagree with him, you may think he's worried about something he shouldn't be worried about, but I don't find his response scummy. Like...whether or not anyone sheeps anyone because of reputation, who cares? (That's not an endorsement of your position, I don't find it SCUMMY to be worried about that, just don't think it's worth worrying over) I think the entire train of thought is a waste of our time. We have some vets. We have some newer faces. Who cares? To me, anyone focused in on that is just posting for the sake of having a filter, isn't hunting scum, and isn't helping themselves look townie. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 02:11 marvellosity wrote: Where did he say this? He said he was paranoid of Ace's scum abilities. On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote: Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. On November 30 2012 12:05 DoYouHas wrote: So this particular bit of my intentions doesn't apply to you personally, congratulations. Have you honestly never been in a game where someone's opinion was given more weight simply because of their reputation? I have, and I hate it. I can't comprehend how you construe my somewhat subtle attempt at working against that as scummy. | ||
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austinmcc
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Were DYH's comments scummy as shit? Do DYH's comments justify swapping a vote from another player you find scummy as shit, when that vote is only 25 minutes or so old? | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right? Everyone scared or something? Ace care to share with the class? I actually wasn't interested by it. Not currently inclined to vote marv. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote: care to commentate on what you provoked with me and debears? I still don't think debears has good reasons for his vote, no matter how many times he references vets or DYH trying to undermine Ace, or anything like that. Nothing...new generated from him, so right now he's still on the scummy side of things for me. As to you...mild town read based on your pursuit of this and your dislike of his votes. There's not a lot of substance yet that's come out of this though. You're pursuing something I sort of did last night, and he's answering, so far, in more or less the same way as he has been. It's more of the same, and so nothing has dropped out of the conversation yet that really triggers a reaction from me. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote: Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday.Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 03:24 marvellosity wrote: I don't really agree it's more of the same. He's making post-hoc explanations that contradict his earlier ones, which he had not done previously. I'm curious you don't pick up on this. "made little sense for a scum to do it also" and "DI doing blah blah does make sense from a scum perspective" aren't as super-contradictory to me. The rest of his posting today, the stuff concerning vets, sheeping, Ace, all that jazz, are more of the same to me. I see less contradiction and more harping on the same stuff that I didn't like before. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/ Beyond debears and Ace's marv vote, did anything, or the lack of some things, interest you? | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote: See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys No...I don't. Because this came up last night. On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote: Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) Here's marv mentioning Ver's guide On November 30 2012 11:22 austinmcc wrote: He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post. Here's me responding, noting the same thing, that newbie guides keep talking about hiding behind newness as a scum trait. I also have no idea why, if DI's actions didn't make sense as scum, you'd vote him, say he was scummy as shit, and maintain that point of view. | ||
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austinmcc
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thoughts on lazermonkey and shiaopi? | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 10:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh, LI is interesting reading if anyone is at all interested in my scum-meta...although to this day I attest that I don't have a meta...austin thinks he's got an activity tell on me but that's neither here nor there. SCUM WON LI BY THE WAY Wat? I'm assuming I said this in a past game? | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 01 2012 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah Mad Men I think. Maybe it was someone else....with a chart and everything. Not me. I have a super secret method of reading you. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 02:13 marvellosity wrote: I'm quite suspicious of austin for showing up yesterday to make 2 irrelevant posts then disappearing again. Hum. austin's not as active as marv would like D1 therefore, austin is ________ | ||
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austinmcc
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Silly one-liners concerning/voting/unvoting DI. Useless comment that isn't a one-liner. One-liners concerning debears asking DI about newbie guides Useless comment that isn't a one-liner explaining what he thinks debears is doing. I don't think debears is mafia...the end Followed by: On December 02 2012 01:48 Zealos wrote: Agreed. Looking at what is happening HERE, all I am seeing is an angry Vet making no real contribution to the game. Btw, I had a mad friday, and have been busy most of today, so I won't really have time to add much till the lynch. I will be more involved in the coming days, but until then I'm pretty useless. One thing I have noticed is that Marv seems to be playing differently than how I remember him. I played a scumgame against his Town play, and he was aggressive, asking a ton of questions, and wouldn't rest till he had me killed. This game he seems to be acting much more passively... On December 02 2012 03:28 Zealos wrote: I did give reasoning for debears. Ace I would call scum if he were a different player, but no one seems to be too keen to push him yet, so I'm willing to leave it for now. Plenty of time ≠ plenty of free time till lynch. I am pointing out marv plays differently. Perhaps scum, perhaps a blue trying to protect himself, may just be acting differently for no reason. I am saying what I am thinking and seeing in the thread. I have not outright called anyone scum yet, but I don't feel I have had enough time to read over to decide who deserves the lynch. I would say the earlier stuff with DI and debears was a little dodgy, but equally, it had too much read into it at the time. The current votes on Xata seem to be the best bet for the time being. This is for instance seems a little.. odd... The sorry in particular, along with the end of the post strike me as weird. "Hey, I think you might be mafia, really sorry about that. Also, for anyone reading this, I wouldn't listen to me, because I'm probably wrong, but at least I'm contributing right? Right?! I don't really like using meta as an argument, so I'm gonna ignore trying to tie it in to his past games as mafia and/or town, but from what I've read so far, this guy seems the best lynch candidate. ##Vote:Xatalos The red bits are basically his comments on anyone other than Xatalos. They amount to nothing. If he's busy or doesn't have much time, fine, but when he's chimed in he hasn't added anything. Got another person or two to post about, then getting to the voting/discussing/whatever | ||
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austinmcc
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ShiaoPi and I usually have some sort of psychic bond and read things the same way. But when I look at his posting this game, I don't get the sense that he's puzzling through things, trying to figure the game out. I started writing out some thoughts, but there's nothing super concrete. Just...look at the posts. On November 30 2012 22:30 ShiaoPi wrote: Xata marv already said why it is illadvised to share townreads without a good reason. So what is your reason? None of the mentioned townreads of your are in danger of getting lynched (deadline isnt that soon anyway). Nor have you cut down the number of players to figure out scum. So why do it? Really see no reason to do that. I know you to be a better player than just mindlessly share stuff like that as your contribution. Questioning Xata results in On November 30 2012 23:16 ShiaoPi wrote: I expect sth more thought out. There must have more than just BLs strategy behind it. I expect of xata to be smarter than whathe claims to be. ShiaoPi expected smarter answers. No conclusion from that though. Doesn't follow up with anything on Xata for the rest of the day. Then recently he was interested in BH. Questioning BH, looks at DYH for Zentor, comes back with: On December 02 2012 00:54 ShiaoPi wrote: I looked over DYH's filter and to be honest I think BH to be scummier. Ther are a couple of things that strike me as suspicious, the whole ace is dangerous and xata is noob thing but I also agree with the questions he had for BH. So I want to see some repsonses fom BH right now, unfortunately he seems to be absent... DYH has "a coulpe of things that strike [ShiaoPi] as suspicious," but BH is scummier. But whereas he says DYH is "suspicious" for a couple reasons, I'm having trouble figuring out why he finds BH scummier and votes BH. This is the best explanation he gives: On December 02 2012 01:40 ShiaoPi wrote: I just dont see how BH can be that decisive with that metaread he produced. DP aint that easy to read, I only got him in LVI via elimination and reaction. Especially if you consider BHs read on me in Liquid city which was extremely convincing in comparison to this one. On December 02 2012 01:56 ShiaoPi wrote: After looking at DYH for Zentor, he has concrete things he didn't like about DYH. But as to BH, his vote, he doesn't see how BH can be so decisive in a meta-read. Okay its almost 1am now, i need my sleep. Nobody answere my questions so ##Vote: Blazinghand I am unsure but seems to me the best bet for now. Will try to be around for deadline but no guarantees, its much more likely that I will miss it by far. Seriously. That's his reasoning and vote as I read it. I'm having trouble finding this to be town ShiaoPi. | ||
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austinmcc
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Fun fact - since DYH's "hello" post, he has only A SINGLE post that doesn't concern Xatalos, and that's answering a non-xatalos question that was posed directly to him. I find that remarkably curious, but not scummy? If it continues though, then I find the heavy focus problematic because it gives town nothing to read you off of other than "DYH is that dude who finds Xatalos scummy." | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 05:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah, that's where I'm at with Zealos too austin, which puts me at a crossroads because Zealos also voted for Xatalos. :/ MARV COME HERE I WANT YOU Why exactly are you voting Xatalos? He's scum hiding inside a tunnel = he's doing nothing but tunneling someone as a way to look active when he's doing nothing? | ||
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austinmcc
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WHY WOULD SCUM DROP A VOTE LIKE THAT? When it comes down to "scumZealos is trying to look like he's not just jumping on board a lynch" and "townZealos is dropping a vote without a good explanation" ... I lean towards the townZealos option. I know that you may want to justify a vote as scum, but...that's not the way to do it. Right? That's where my head is at right now on Zealos. Without that vote, he's scummy. With that vote, I have more trouble thinking that he's scum. | ||
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austinmcc
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DYH. Xatalos has been teleported out of this game. He's gone. The end. Which remaining player is your biggest scumread? Biggest townread? Biggest "WHAT IS THIS PERSON DOOOOIIIIIIING?" read? | ||
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austinmcc
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There's a lot of interaction between that whole group...marv pushing for DP recently, WBG/marv having a spat, WBG voting and pushing for marv. BH, try and unravel that whole ball of yarn if you would...where are your current thoughts on the entire group of marv/wbg/DP | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote: Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read? I think Zealos is my top scumread. ##vote: Zealos Beyond that, I'm worried about...hmmmm. Both you and DP concern me, I don't think both of you are scum, but I can't figure out which is which. Right now, I'm inclined to believe you're scummier between the two. DP had some good points on you, and I was going back and forth with you yesterday because I haven't played with you (I don't think), so I wanted to try and get a better sense of where you were. I came away feeling alright from that exchange, but reading over how some other people viewed it, I think a lot of my good feelings came from the fact that you actually interacted and kept things moving somewhat, and I wasn't paying enough attention to your actual comments on folks. However, you're not my #2 scumread. That's actually ShiaoPi right now. I don't like typing that out, it seems like someone else should be there, but it's him. I don't care about reading BH right now, because I think he's useful for town regardless of his alignment. I'm not bothering to really try and solidify reads on some people that aren't relevant to the D1 lynch - Ace, Zentor, DYH. Nobody in the remaining players sticks out to me like Zealos, ShiaoPi, and you do. | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:33 Ace wrote: So the case on Zealos is inactivity? As far as I'm concerned, it's what his actual activity has been. Either one-liners, or posts that look meaty in comparison but actually just durdle around and say nothing. | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:08 DoYouHas wrote: ##Unvote Xatalos ##Vote DarthPunk I still think we are making a mistake with Xatalos, but I agree with BH that lynching marv is a bad idea. If nothing else, I have an easier time reading marv as the game wears on. I'm a little biased towards Zealos since he is one of the few that agreed with me on Xatalos. That leaves me with DarthPunk as the only viable one to switch to. DYH do you care who you're voting for? You have been ENTIRELY focused on Xatalos, 100%. Now you pop in, decide that your #1 super duper scumread isn't your vote, you will vote one of two people who are possible lynches. And you choose between them based not on the cases against them, something you find scummy, or ANYTHING like that. You place your vote on DP because.......Zealos voted for Xatalos. Would you care to say ANYTHING about ANYONE who isn't Xatalos? | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 07:40 Blazinghand wrote: I like where you're going but I'd like a bit more explanation. DYH has done nothing but poke at Xatalos all D1. DYH drops in right before lynch, changes his vote from the guy he's been tunneling. Does he change it to someone he finds scummy? NO. He picks the two targets that seem most likely to be lynched in the face of marv's cop claim, and says he's choosing among those. He proceeds to choose, not by which person is scummiest, but by whether or not someone voted for Xatalos. | ||
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austinmcc
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I'd appreciate someone who got a scum PM claiming, and then I will vote that person. Otherwise, I'll vote Zealos, DYH, ShiaoPi. ShiaoPi does not appear to be happening. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 07:47 debears wrote: Lol.....why is it that after I go off someone and find him null/townie everyone finds him scummy...... I still don't like your reasons early. The reason he's scummy has nothing to do with the stuff you were pointing out. | ||
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austinmcc
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##vote: DoYouHas | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 07:50 Xatalos wrote: I'm really puzzled by DYH's tunneling of me, but I can't say if it's A) bad town play B) bad Mafia play. He just seems to relentlessly want me lynched for little to no reason. Would Mafia go that far and make themselves look bad? I'm not convinced. But it isn't really town play either. What the heck is he doing? At least for me, his tunnelling looked...bad. Not alignment indicative, but not helpful. I poked him earlier, noting every post but one of his was about you, and tried to get him to talk about anything else. In and of itself, that's just not helping town but not scummy. However, that vote post...that vote post is scummy. It shows he doesn't really care where his vote is, he's just choosing between popular options based on a terrible methodology. Moreover, he's giving up on the guy he's been tunneling all game to go chase someone else for no stated reason. | ||
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austinmcc
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We'll find out, but it's not guaranteed yet. Especially given that, approaching deadline, he gave out his reads in one post and then claimed vigi LATER in a separate post. The ordering and the timing on those posts doesn't make me smile. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 02 2012 08:17 Blazinghand wrote: DYH is definitely not above suspicion. I just don't lynch claimed blues D1. But the way he claimed was probably... the worst possible way to claim and the least useful for town. That's fine, but...I did not expect posts like these from you guys: On December 02 2012 08:11 Blazinghand wrote: Well at least we didn't lynch the vigi. Damn DYH you ass you needed to claim much earlier than that. Now at least one of you/marv will be able to get your night action done though :D On December 02 2012 08:12 marvellosity wrote: Both are ... more certain than I like? that DYH is a vigiDYH needs to make sure he claims his shot pre-deadline | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote: Um, look dude DYH needs to make these claims specifically because he's a scummy ass and quite possibly not a vigi. He is not confirmed. He is not a town-read in my book. : On December 02 2012 08:11 Blazinghand wrote: Well at least we didn't lynch the vigi. Damn DYH you ass you needed to claim much earlier than that. Now at least one of you/marv will be able to get your night action done though :D In your initial post, you didn't say "Claim your shot so we know." You were relieved we didn't lynch "the vigi." Not "the claimed vigi." Not "someone who might be vigi." Not "now we can figure out if that's a real claim or fakeclaim." Read that post of yours, your first one. It doesn't say unconfirmed, it doesn't hedge, it is absolutely certain that DYH is a vigi. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:25 Blazinghand wrote: Whatever, it's a wording thing. Scumslips don't exist. You made a post. I noted that I didn't like the way you and marv worded your posts, yours was worse. You IMMEDIATELY jumped on my case, noted that DYH wasn't confirmed, that he had to call a shot. I pointed out what you said, and why I pointed it out. You dismiss. That was quite the strong reaction, both to immediately start hedging and noting that we don't know whether DYH is a vigi and to call me out so hard, thinking that I was being dumb and didn't know why the shot needed calling. I didn't call it a scumslip off the bat. But man, that is a WEIRD response to a mostly-innocuous comment that I made, which btw was a good thing to note. | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:33 Blazinghand wrote: austinmcc you can continue to talk about this or you can talk about real things, and one way will have me ignoring you. Here, let's play a game. The game is called Are these two posts harmonious, or are they contradictory? On December 02 2012 08:11 Blazinghand wrote: Well at least we didn't lynch the vigi. Damn DYH you ass you needed to claim much earlier than that. Now at least one of you/marv will be able to get your night action done though :D On December 02 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote: Um, look dude DYH needs to make these claims specifically because he's a scummy ass and quite possibly not a vigi. He is not confirmed. He is not a town-read in my book. I don't care if you're scum or not (that's a lie; I care). But I find those two statements contradictory, and you seem to be attacking me for my conclusion. So...are those posts contradictory or harmonious? | ||
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marv and bugs, knock it off. I can't speak for everyone, but I quit reading what you guys posted for these last couple pages. If what you have to say is important, then you're both negatively impacting yourselves here. So...beyond just keeping it civil, how about you both quit sniping at each other? | ||
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On December 02 2012 08:26 wherebugsgo wrote: holy fucking shit someone needs to shoot BH in the face Explain. | ||
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On December 02 2012 09:21 wherebugsgo wrote: whatever, this is fruitless and marv might just be that bad. So, let's kill BH then. Hopefully someone shoots him tonight. Seriously, please go into a little more detail about why you want BH to get deaded. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:26 MrZentor wrote: Okay Keirathi, riddle me this. IF BH is scum, why would he make that giant case against me and retract it immediately? Odd behavior like that is bound to be noticed, and BH could have easily made himself look productive while throwing dirt on me by not retracting that case. From what I have seen, BH moves his cases and his votes around A LOT on D1. I remembering doing a votecount D1 in bureaucracy, and scum BH had like 8 or 9 different votes during D1, way more than others. I actually don't ever want to lynch BH early in a game because he always seems to create discussion and activity with his votes, so even when he's scum he's useful to town. But the "BH odd behavior"/"BH visible" argument doesn't sway me much on him specifically because I'm used to him being visible no matter his faction. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:32 MrZentor wrote: 1. Moving his vote around a lot on the first day. 2. Spending a lot of time making a case and instantly retracting it. These things aren't the same. Aye. But it's not just the vote, he's often got a case or something with it, as I remember. I guess in my head it just doesn't strike me as odd for him to have made that case regardless of his alignment. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:40 Keirathi wrote: I disagree. Retracting a mistake case is entirely a null tell. How does it indicate townieness? Why couldn't it have been scum? It indicates townieness in a bunch of hypothetical ways. It indicates scumminess in other hypothetical ways. It's not anything definitive, I'm just saying that MrZ has a point. I just WIFOM about it whenever I try to see town/scum angles, so I don't want to use it as anything major | ||
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gg marv and VE | ||
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Housekeeping: With DYH actually being a vigi, I'm less inclined to believe that BH changed his vote last second for a save as scum. There are things he could have thought from either a town or scum perspective that would lead him to change his vote, sure. But he didn't have to, and that's quite a snapcall to make as scum. For some reason I don't quite want to put "BH townie now" but ... that seems more likely. I'd rather pursue non-BH targets today. + Show Spoiler + SECRET PARANOID THOUGHT: SCUM TEAM HAS 2 KP, DYH NOT A VIGI, HAD TO SHOOT VE TO GET CONFIRMED STATUS. ZOMGZOMGZOMGZOMGZOMG. Just a thought, because I do loves me some speculation. We don't know how much KP scum have, and so while DYH probably town, we've got no confirmation. Could also be third party with KP, etc. etc. | ||
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On December 04 2012 01:37 Keirathi wrote: I want someone to answer this for me: Do townies tunnel? When they're confident they found a scum? I said I would reevaluate BH if someone could honestly tell me that they thought that one of marv/DYH's night actions would get through, because my assumption was that one would be killed and one would be RB'd. I'm assuming your question is rhetorical and you're trying to say that your tunnelling makes you townie. It doesn't make you either alignment, you just tunneled someone. | ||
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As someone else pointed out, this was a very helpful post: On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote: I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early: Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM): WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum. Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said. DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through. Scummers : Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it. People that I'm unsure but leaning scum: VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though. But I'd like to hear more. Dandel Ion was missing for a lot of D1, and I want to try and firm up a read on you to make sure I can trust your analysis. (1) Why was Xatalos "so townie"? (2) What is your current stance on Zealos? During the night, you had posts like: On December 03 2012 07:21 sandroba wrote: and the one above, where your top two reads are BH and Zealos.@DYH If you are vigi, which I believe you are, I would just flip a coin and shoot BH/Zealos, they are both scum. Today, I scan see reasons for coming down off BH, but Zealos is another story. During the night, Zealos was scum because of his oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it. but now you've tossed Zealos aside and are on ShiaoPi. I'm fine with the ShiaoPi read, but you seem to have dropped one of your main suspects, who you thought was scum because of a specific post, because ... VE mentioned him?On December 03 2012 21:38 sandroba wrote: Hmm Bugs does have a point. Also if we assume BH is town ShiaoPi does fit the same theme as VE yesterday. A totally unimpactful player that just stood by the sidelines, because their team was never in danger. I'm willing to roll with that because I'm getting cold feet about BH flipping scum (VE mentioning he is okay with lynching him/zealos should at least make us consider looking in another direction) and Shiao isn't doing shit so it's less risk involved. ##Vote: ShiaoPi On December 03 2012 22:24 sandroba wrote: Well the thing is that VE didn't know he was gonna die. Do you think he would agree preemptively to lynch zealos in that case? I think our best bet is to ignore those 2 for now at least. If Zealos was so scummy because of a specific post, why should we put him aside today because VE mentioned him? | ||
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On December 04 2012 03:20 Keirathi wrote: Fine fine. I don't want to have to reveal this, but I will. My super secret method of reading VE is:@austinmcc: So what was your super secret method, and why did you never mention VE at all in regards to a read of him?
See: LV and PTP3, and thoughts inside my head during each of those games. Ta da, that's my super secret method. Didn't mention him because he wasn't doing tons, and wasn't a lynch option at any point really. Was focused elsewhere. | ||
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On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote: You silly. I didn't start the voting, but I did point out how much I disliked his post unvoting xatalos and voting DP. Shortly after that was when votes started coming in for him (Although MrZ did have a prior vote that he had removed and then brought back, so unsure if it was specifically because of my comment). I can see why that would remind you of aperture, but I am ze townie.Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. I think if you look at WHEN I'm bringing things up here, you won't feel that I'm playing follow-the-leader, but I may just have a blind spot towards it. | ||
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On December 04 2012 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote: w/e, RB or not it doesn't really matter. + Show Spoiler [dota] + What DOES matter is that I just went 12-2-27 as invoker and still lost. This game is like a process of elimination right now. We have established several players as town and basically we just need to kill based on the flips we saw last night. It's that simple, really. I find it odd that BH is not around and talking, but certainly he has time to do so. Also seeing as sandro agrees with me it probably means shiao is scum lolol (<3 sandro scumhunting abilities) (1) We all know that WBG raged at his team, went afk in fountain with Exort invoker, and stole all those kills/assists with Suntrike. (2) I'd like to hear more from you concering folks that aren't ShiaoPi or VE. I got not problem with you sitting back D1, but short of other claims it looks like you or sandro or DYH would be the likely mafia targets tonight. For instance, you wanted to pressure these folks: On December 02 2012 09:44 wherebugsgo wrote: I also think we should be pressuring these players: MrZentor Zealos Dandel Ion Shiaopi since they essentially got away with either abstaining or not doing anything all day 1. I haven't played with MrZ. I know he has a bit of a reputation. I've found him pretty clear and logical this whole game. Does that strike you as odd, or do you have a problem with that? Or does it make you think he's town? Do you still want to pressure him? Zealos hasn't posted since partway through D1. You brought him up a little in relation to VE, but what do you make of his actual posts. I didn't like them D1 when talking to LazerMonkey, BH found them townie, but you haven't said anything about the actual posts that he did make, which is all we have to go off of. | ||
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My worries about him actually come from the spat he had with marv N1. We know marv was town. We know marv was the N1 kill. Heck, MARV should have known he'd be the N1 kill, because he knew his claim was true. Look at his N1. He may have expected a doc, but didn't say anything like that. He was mostly silent. Porque? Porque does a good scumhunter who is town NOT put down a lot of N1 thoughts? * DRAMATIC NOISE * BECAUSE OF WBG. From the very start of the night, marv and WBG got into their little shitfest. I know I've seen both get frustrated/pissy/whatever before, but...it's still curious to me because of - Movie Star Mini Mafia.
If I were scum in this game, and I knew marv's claim was legit, and was going to make him the N1 kill...I'd do my best to neutralize any scum-hunting he was going to contribute, because we're going to know he's town and can take it as truth. WBG did a nice job of neutralizing Marv's scumhunting, while knowing that marv can react unproductively to constant sniping. To some extent, this may just be a narrative that I like, but WBG is one of the players that I wouldn't put it past. I'm not sure how his stubbornness and possible ego weigh out against his knowledge that he could mess with Marv's head like that. Keirathi, I assume you hate this post, sorry. It both follows up a target that's already being discussed AND doesn't vote. I secretly want to play BH and just post cases about all sorts of uninvolved people to try and stir crap up, but I don't have the time right now. So uninvolved people...pretend there are a bunch of cases posted on you. OH NO. BETTER POST AND TRY TO LOOK TOWNIE. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:38 Keirathi wrote: I'm not even trying to get anyone to support my case, what the hell. I'm trying to show why I don't think marv and WBG getting into a shitfit makes WBG scum. MARV didn't think he was scum during the shitfit. Which is directly different from the marv getting in a shitfit with Palmar in Rock Band. Different, but I'm not sure if it's in a meaningful way. I care less about what Marv may or may not have thought, and more about what WBG DID. WBG poking and prodding Marv after hosting a game and making comments about how marv got caught up in being poked and prodded shows me that he was doing it intentionally. Regardless of how marv read WBG, I don't like the idea that town WBG is getting all over marv's case at the start of the only night he's alive, with scum probably knowing they were shooting marv that night. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:46 Keirathi wrote: I think it's reasonable to suspect them. To make a case on them. To call them scum, whatever.Well you have to remember, WBG obstensibly had a scum read on marv, despite the DT claim. He was voting marv, and marv was a major pusher for the DP lynch. Is it unreasonable for a townie with a scum read on someone who was the main proponent of a townie mislynch to argue with them during the night? I actually DON'T think it's reasonable to shit up the thread like they did. Heck, if it were reasonable, there wouldn't be a big blue post from the host telling them to knock it off. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote: WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP. Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why? I'm a sucker for stuff like that, and I think it's a good thing to look at. I'd rather have more days of voting to work off of before really giving weight to voting, however. I'm headed to sleep, but I'll look at your lazer stuff and some of the other side bits from today more in the morning and give you more full thoughts. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:53 Keirathi wrote: You asked if it was reasonable for someone to do what WBG did.But you KNOW marv was town, and he participated in it just as much as WBG did. I don't think EITHER ONE of them was being reasonable, unless WBG is mafia. There are non-mafia explanations, frustration/ego/whatever. But it's not a reasonable action to fight like that in thread UNLESS WBG is mafia. Just an unreasonable action with somewhat of an explanation. | ||
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On December 04 2012 12:59 Keirathi wrote: It's because, to some extent, I refuse to believe WBG didn't know what he was doing. That's kind of my point. It might not have been reasonable for WBG to fight with marv in thread, but it wasn't reasonable for marv to fight either. So if you know marv is town, why does it automatically make WBG scum? One townie can do it, but not two? If you come at it from that angle, WBG purposefully kept that crap going. Can you come up with a reason to do so other than WBG = mafia? | ||
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On December 04 2012 13:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Please tell me what you would do when you ask someone for their explanation for why someone is scum and you get told to "fuck off". Part of the reason I called marv scum was precisely that line. I don't care about calling him scum. Heck, BH more or less told me to fuck off around the same time period, concerning the language he'd used about DYH being a vigi. I responded by questioning him, trying to get some answers. But I didn't get into a giant pissing contest with him. I don't think I insulted him at all. Some of that is just differences in how we play the game, but are you really going to try and convince me that you and marv's little spat, that lasted ... a couple pages? and drew host comments, was just what you'd do when told to fuck off? | ||
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On December 04 2012 13:11 wherebugsgo wrote: To be fair...host says you're scum.So since we were both in on it, guess we were both scum?! Wow, amazing logic. On November 22 2012 06:53 JingleHell wrote: Host says marv is scum too...so yeah. Completely logical.Setup Information This game is a completely closed setup. Trust noone. They're all lying scum. I'm actually headed to bed, will maybe pick this back up in the morning. Also gonna note that I don't put too much faith in "both people doing same thing, marv town, therefore WBG certainly town." Again, I have a hard time believing you didn't know what you were doing, that you weren't purposefully provoking that. | ||
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On December 04 2012 13:15 Keirathi wrote: I'm not saying that WBG is town because marv was town. I'm saying that WBG fighting with marv has nothing to do with WBG's alignment, imo. That bit was specific to where I thought WBG was going. | ||
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I'm having a dream. I'm dreaming that...that DYH isn't confirmed. That there are other explanations. That if scum only has 1 KP in a 15-person game, something is wrong. I'm dreaming that...it seems there should be an SK, or more than 1 KP, etc. etc. I'm dreaming that we need to be careful not to call out "confirmed townies," even if we're relatively sure. /snore | ||
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WBG's posts last night initially struck me as scummy. I'm not sure that they do after sleeping on it and thinking some more. Sandroba, you've been sort of sideways-defending WBG. On December 04 2012 12:00 sandroba wrote: Omg I thought this would blow over, but I see it's getting momentum. I'll post my thoughts when I wake up. On December 04 2012 23:08 sandroba wrote: You find the tone of his posts, and their emotion, genuine. That doesn't actually say anything. That tells me bugs is invested in the game, and serious about what he's saying...but so what? He wasn't super invested D1, which is fine. He was super invested in his fight with marv and somewhat invested in his defense now, but I don't see why he'd have to FAKE emotion for either of those. Nobody is saying "yeah, wbg FAKING all this. (I know you like to scumhunt based on sincerity and tone and whatnot, but I don't feel that you've actually explained yourself here)LISTEN PEOPLE! I've reread WBG's filter a couple times by now. Consider please that yesterday lynch was between 2 townies and scum shot marvelosity. WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia. Even if you can twist it somehow like you guys have been trying to do, the tone and emotional content of his posts are very genuine. I've played with mafia bugs before, and while he is hard to read, he is either non confrontational or trollish, he doesn't pick fights with people for absolutely no gain like he has been doing this game. I'd also take issue with you saying he doesn't pick fights with people for no gain. I don't think you can say there was no gain for sure, because marv didn't do boatloads N1 while he should have been nearly certain he was going to die. Whether WBG is scum or not, his spat with marv, assuming it caused marv to pull away from the game N1, was detrimental to town beyond clogging up the thread. | ||
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On December 04 2012 22:51 Xatalos wrote: Heh. Well, I really hope so. I've also played with ShiaoPi before and I must say he was a lot more active and decisive back then. He even defended a (Mafia) player to the very end against every other player and was pretty clear on his reads. Now it feels like he's just giving vague reads and jumping on any realistic bandwagon. On December 04 2012 22:56 ShiaoPi wrote: That game was a long time ago and I was also in a different timezone, much more fitting for playing with EU/NA. Just saying you should not take that game as a basis for meta, go for more recent games such as Liquid City or LVI and LVII Xatalos, I would suggest looking at... LVII at least. I remember having the same feeling about ShiaoPi there that I did D1 here. He turned out to be town. It doesn't make him town here, but ... I've seen town ShiaoPi be relatively uninvested early compared to his play in that newbie game. | ||
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On December 04 2012 23:53 sandroba wrote: @austin your point is? I can't figure out why you're defending WBG in the manner you are. Relying on alignments of people at lynch and his sincerity/emotion don't feel like strong arguments to me, and if he's been sincerely anything this game it's flippant when anyone brought up his posting D1 and when votes starting falling on him D2. | ||
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I don't want to kill ShiaoPi today. WBG, could you speak a little more about why you didn't believe marv's cop claim? On December 02 2012 07:27 wherebugsgo wrote: LOL what kind of shit cop claims day 1? Of all people marv would know that this is a terrible idea as town. So, guess what? HE'S NOT TOWN! On December 02 2012 07:40 wherebugsgo wrote: After Can't Believe, you had a whole list of hypotheticals, presenting claims and asking people to think critically about whether they were real or fake.why does it matter, prplhz thought he was dying just like you. scum do whatever they want to live when they think they're gonna die Good Lord I love bringing up past games, but that is also something I'm having trouble with here. Why did you not believe marv's claim? | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:02 debears wrote: I'm not sure on Keir. His posting today gives me a townie vibe, despite Ace's d1. I'm more worried about WBG/Shiao For what it's worth, I think I found Ace's D1 townie. It's difficult to say for sure, because he replaced out without dumping his thoughts into thread, so it's tough to tell for sure. But at least some of his comments and responses led me to believe that he was coming at the game from a townie perspective. Cite me examples, you say! Can't really except that I know I noticed him speaking mainly about players he'd played with before, and asked him about that, worried that he was just chiming in occasionally and not really looking at the game. It would take no effort for him to lie when answering that, to say that he was reading everyone's posts and thinking about them, but I took his answer to be sincere, even though we didn't really get to SEE that with him replacing out. /ramble off | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:13 DoYouHas wrote: Whichever direction the lynch goes today, I think we are going to kill town. I'm moving my vote to Shiaopi simply because I'm less willing to sacrifice bugs than him to make you realize that you are all off track. Lazer is scum. BH, my reasons for voting Lazer are not lazy. I came to the same conclusion from looking into both the voting patterns and VE's filter. I was ready to rethink my assumptions when I was filtering WBG and VE. Indeed, I did exactly that for both Keirathi and WBG. BUT, my conviction on Lazer was only strengthened. BH classified my analysis of VE's posting on Lazer to be 'soft defending'. This makes me wonder if he even read it. The ONLY mention that could be construed that way was the first one where Lazer made a generalization about people's behavior and VE responded with "truth". It was a nothing interaction, not soft defending, and I classified it as such. Hypothetical - If I was to come out with a PBPA on Lazer now, what would happen? You all would ignore me even more than you are now because you would assume I was tunneling Lazer, just like I tunneled Xata. I gave you the evidence that convinced me, and you are all fools to ignore it. It is time to wake up and smell the coffee town, neither of our candidates today are scum. And in true BH style, I will eat my hat if I'm wrong. ##Unvote Lazermonkey ##Vote Shiaopi HYPOTHETICAL LAND. You're scum this game. WBG is town. WBG and sandroba are both vets with solid scumhunting credentials. sandroba not a lynch option, because he looks townie. Aren't you going to make the play to try and get WBG lynched? If that's true, in the same way we've looked at "someone voting for x probably scum," there is almost certainly scum on WBG if he's town. Saves you an early NK on someone you were going to have to get rid of, and you let town do most of the heavy lifting. Do you agree with that thought process, that scum would be delighted to mislynch town WBG today? If so, who, out of the folks on WBG, do you think is scum? | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:18 austinmcc wrote: HYPOTHETICAL LAND. You're scum this game. WBG is town. WBG and sandroba are both vets with solid scumhunting credentials. sandroba not a lynch option, because he looks townie. Aren't you going to make the play to try and get WBG lynched? If that's true, in the same way we've looked at "someone voting for x probably scum," there is almost certainly scum on WBG if he's town. Saves you an early NK on someone you were going to have to get rid of, and you let town do most of the heavy lifting. Do you agree with that thought process, that scum would be delighted to mislynch town WBG today? If so, who, out of the folks on WBG, do you think is scum? FOLLOW UP TO THIS I know I mentioned Zealos and ShiaoPi D1. A couple other folks mentioned ShiaoPi D1 as looking off/being absent/whatever. ShiaoPi is exactly the kind of candidate I'd be pushing if I were scum today. There were some mild comments about him D1, you know he doesn't look great, you just have to tip things over the edge. I think that given D1, ShiaoPi would be the easiest mislynch to push (One of the main vote-getters from D1 appears to be an honest-to-goodness vigi, a possible mislynch may be modkilled, lazermonkey would be your real other option if you didn't want to whip up a frenzy on an altogether new target). That's one reason I'm not comfrotable with ShiaoPi today. (btw Keirathi, that's exactly what scumAustin would have done today, followed up on ShiaoPi D1 suspicions by lining him up for a mislynch (if he's town)). | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:18 Keirathi wrote: I haven't re-read rockband, but I'm not going to right now (sorry, just too much going on).@austin: You seem to be hung up on WBG fighting with marv. Did you go read Rockband? I believe I know marv as well as probably almost anyone on TL. If he gets in a fight in thread with someone, and thinks they are scum, he would be yelling about it up and down. The fact that he didn't call WBG scum even once says that marv thought WBG was town, and that they were just bashing egos against each other. Now, I certainly don't think marv's reads are infallible, but at the very least it gives me pause to voting WBG. Marv is quick to call someone scum who does something he thinks is scum motivated, even if he changes his mind later. Do you think, as an outside observer of the fight, you have better insight into WBG's motives than who he was fighting with? I don't super care that marv didn't have a scumread on WBG. (1) WBG was pretty invisible D1, for reasons that are fine by me and that marv didn't take massive offense to, so it's not like there was a whole lot to go on. (2) I think, as an outside observer, that I may have better insight, yeah. I'm worried about particular past games that WBG has been involved in, both with his poking at marv and with his disbelief of marv's claim (which he still hasn't fully explained). I do not know if marv was thinking about those two particular things at the time, especially given that he was probably still a little miffed about being, as he saw it, forced to claim. | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:25 DoYouHas wrote: If I was scum, I wouldn't care which of those two got lynched. Killing Shiaopi won't make WBG's detractors go away or the other way around. WBG is the stronger scumhunter between the two, but arguments over him also occupy more thread space. Killing WBG gets him out of the way. Letting him live will hurt the day 3 discussion since we will keep arguing over him like a dog with a bone. I think I find this really townie. Highly unlikely that we had both a faked vigishot and a quick response like this. | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:27 MrZentor wrote: I like how Keirathi is just blindly defending WBG. Scum buddies? I actually don't think so. | ||
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It's not scummy, but it's weirding me out. I thought you were going to be entirely unhelpful and scummy as either alignment. | ||
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Part of your argument here is that you know Marv well enough to know that he didn't think WBG was scum during N1. Yes, you've got some reason to think that, but you've also got to understand you're two generations removed. You're relying on yourself being able to interpret marv's actions/thoughts. You're also relying on marv's thoughts being correct. Doesn't mean that your arguments shouldn't be given weight, but you need to recognize that you're stringing two possibilities together here in order to get to your argument, and we can't be certain about either. | ||
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On December 05 2012 06:47 Keirathi wrote: I'm not relying on marv's thoughts being correct, I'm relying on them giving reasonable doubt to a WBG lynch to push the person that I actually think is scum: ShiaoPi. Do you not agree with me (or sandroba for that matter), that ShiaoPi has basically blended in for as long as he could, sheeping onto all of the major bandwagons? There's been some blending in/low activity. I see him poking at BH D1, voting BH. I don't see him jump on marv when marv pops up (and felt enough pressure that he claimed). I don't see him jumping on DYH. I don't see him jumping on DP. Some of that is absence, but he ABSOLUTELY doesn't "sheep onto all of the major bandwagons" D1. When he returns, he does not that he's watching marv and DYH (weren't we all?), and that he's concerned about BH and xatalos. Then today I see him on you at first, later swapping to WBG. His last post is something that jumps out at me: On December 05 2012 01:06 ShiaoPi wrote: Hey Xata, What made that 180°-turn from this: to I can't even comprehend this at all. also your last thing about emotions and stuff is utter trash, I am reacting the way I am since you guys are fucking retarded to lynch me over bugs..... LOOK AT THIS KEIRATHI. Here is a dude who is set to be lynched. He is one of TWO candidates for today. He had a scumread on you earlier, and was watching Xatalos after D1. Instead of piling on WBG, instead of defending himself further, what's he doing. He's scumhunting, in a way that's not related to today's lynch and that shows he's trying to solve the game rather than stay alive. He's wondering why one suspect he had has suddenly changed a read on a player he's also suspicious of, based on ShiaoPi's own posting. I actually really think that post looks townie, in that he's still trying to get a read on Xatalos and figure Xatalos out. | ||
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WBG or MrZ want to confirm these pairings? | ||
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I actually BELIEVE that our masons are masoned. Ta da. But everyone needs to remember, being a mason =/= being TOWN. Stop saying they are confirmed townies, stop thinking that way, because we don't know. Scum masons happen. Cults happen. There is absolutely no reason to believe that our masons have to be town, so knock it off. Given that the game is PARANOIA mafia, and we've got 4.5 billion mason pairs now...I actually think it's far more likely that one or both mason pairs could be scum/town than it is that they're all town, or one pair is fakeclaiming. That's way too risky when scum already lost VE, no way they put 2 members in harm's way. At this point, gut feeling, Keirathi is town, WBG is scum, and they ARE masons. There is absolutely no reason to believe that masons have to be town. Same way we can't be sure DYH is a vigi, or a TOWN vigi at that. GRATUITOUS USE OF CAPSLOCK LYNCH WBG. | ||
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IF Keirathi is telling the truth THEN Keirathi is blue, town, and a mason. It tells us absolutely nothing about WBG's alignment. | ||
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So far, there has been no paranoia. Nothing out of the ordinary that would make a closed setup interesting. Mason pairs that cross alignments are absolutely something that could make a closed setup interesting, and absolutely something that could create paranoia. ESPECIALLY with two mason pairs. What if one is town/mafia and the other is town/town. Or town/mafia and mafia/mafia. 4 confirmable townies, not just that, but townies that can talk to each other outside thread and share ideas and become super scumhunting machines (seriously, if you haven't been a mason, it's RIDICULOUSLY strong) seems like way too much. Those are exactly the sorts of scenarios that create paranoia. If we lynch WBG and he's town...WHAT DO WE DO. Maybe keirathi is lying, maybe one of MrZ and BH is mafia, WHO KNOWS!!!! If we lynch him and he's mafia...WHAT DO WE DO. Maybe keirathi is telling the truth, maybe none/one/both of MrZ and BH are mafia, WHO KNOWS!!! That's paranoia. That fits this game. Plus...seriously, WBG totes mafia. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:43 Blazinghand wrote: We're not doing this by PM highlighting. Kei and WBG scum together. Lynch scum. For realsies. We already know that PMs are highlighted differently based on claims/flips (or we can assume that). Remember debears thinking he'd broke the game because of how the PMs were written? I assume that was related to this in a way and I don't think it's something we can use. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:48 Blazinghand wrote: Keirathi claimed mason with WBG and they're the two scummiest players in the game. There's no way we're the scum pair, they are almost certainly the scum pair, austin. I am currently not of the mind that there's a "scum pair." I imagine there's more than 0, and less than 4, scum between you guys. | ||
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"wait guys, we're not masons. I'm actually a vigi" just to balance out GSL3? | ||
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On April 10 2012 07:44 Ace wrote: From now on every game of Mafia you ever play THIS is what you will do: Open up a new file in Notepad. If you don't know how, go to "Start" in Windows. Go to "All Programs". Find Notepad, or NotePad++. Click on it. It will open. Trust me. List every player in the game. As you read the thread, make little notes next to their name in chronological order. You can also make a seperate column or new partition on the page to list KNOWN facts. This would be roleclaims, mod confirmed information, players' stances, and alignment flips. Do this again but list it as MOST LIKELY information. This above all else will change all the time. This includes your current reads on everyone's alignments along information you can infer about people's roles based on the thread and the mechanics of the game. Now all you have to do is read the game. Even if you aren't able to keep multiple lines of thought running in your head at least you'll always have a place to start tracking what you need to win as Town/Mafia every time you wake up. Remember my motto: Keep It Simple. It's from Death Factory 2, a heavily themed game with a closed setup and a lot of odd roles/mechanics. Game. Full Wrap-Up Post. It is becoming pretty darn apparent that we cannot assume some things we would in a normal game. We don't know scum numbers. We don't know scum KP. We don't know how many factions are in the game. We don't know if ANY of these roles correspond to a particular alignment. EVERYONE needs to throw all those thoughts out immediately, and really split things up into what we KNOW and what is MOST LIKELY. We are going to miss things if we assume we know things we don't. We are going to mislynch more than we would otherwise if we assume we know things we don't. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:54 DoYouHas wrote: How convenient that we would have to kill 3-4 of them in order to confirm your theory. Scumlist: Lazermonkey, austinmcc, zealos/xata I don't want to kill masons to confirm my theory. I want to actually play this game, without caring whether someone's a mason or not, because that has no bearing on their actual alignment. I want to lynch SCUM based on them being SCUMMY. I don't want to lynch masons because "maybe some masons are scum," nor have I ever advocated that. I think WBG is scum because I think he's scummy. I think Keirathi is maybe town, independent of his being a mason. BH and MrZ I'm more uncertain on. But I don't give two hoots that they're masons, I care whether they are townie or scummy, and I care what they actually do in game. | ||
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On December 05 2012 08:21 debears wrote: Dis game ...... Got interesting. | ||
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But your conclusion is wrong. Or at least your scumteam is wrong. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:43 debears wrote: You are very correct about me DYH But we are in a predicament. We are down 3-0 to these scum. Looks like we'll a need a James Bond to emerge from the shadows of darkness and save us from dese scum ![[image loading]](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02185/bond_2185670b.jpg) And why do I get the feeling that you just activated some ability or claimed something? | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:51 DoYouHas wrote: Please, walk me through your current suspicions. Surely you have it narrowed down a fair bit yourself by now. Will do, give me a moment. Full thoughts won't come until the end of the night, but I've narrowed things down somewhat. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:51 DoYouHas wrote: Currently, we've got a couple categories of players:Please, walk me through your current suspicions. Surely you have it narrowed down a fair bit yourself by now. Based on abilities: Claimed almost-certainly-town-role-given-that-you-shot-scum: DYH Masons: Keirathi, BH, MrZ Rest of us I don't believe all the masons are town. So I think there's a scum within that group. Keirathi's claim is interesting, because if he were scum, he'd almost certainly (barring multiple factions/SK) know that WBG was, in fact, a mason and was, in fact, town. He also couldn't NOT claim because if WBG returned and said they were masons, we might wonder why Keirathi waited so long. I'm leaning town on him because of his play so far, but leaning is as far as I can go. BH/MrZ then contain a scum or two imo. BH snap counter-claimed keirathi. That's a bad call for scum, because if he knows they're town, we're going to lynch a town mason, and BH is gonna get got. Therefore, BH almost CERTAINLY town. That leaves MrZ, who I'm going to find scum by process of elimination. 4 town masons in a 15-man game with a DT and a claimed vigi? No thanks. Mason is so crazy powerful that scum would have to be STACKED to deal with that, or we'd have multiple factions, or something. We only saw 2 kills, you claimed one-shot. That means either we see multiple kills tonight and have issues with you, or we see one and we know scum isn't crazy stacked --> we don't have 4 town masons. Beyond that, the group is Xatalos, Debears, ShiaoPi, LazerMonkey, you, Sandroba. I mostly trust your claim for now I guess. There's no reason to be pushing you tomorrow, if you made a play with that VE shot and are anything other than town, oh well. For now, best to consider you almost-confirmed, take what we can get, and we'll sort it out later. Not gonna suggest a lynch one of our most likely townies tomorrow when there are other candidates. So now Xatalos, debears, ShiaoPi, LazerMonkey, Sandroba I found Sandroba's sideways defense of WBG odd. But WBG was town. And again, scum with the opportunity to mislynch WBG probably don't let that go. So while he's been kind of absent, I'm reading his defense as real, but wish he'd returned. I'd like to hear more from him, but leaning town. Xatalos, debears, ShiaoPi, LazerMonkey Now is when we start to get into stuff I'd rather talk about later, and not start making people targets right now. Everything above is pretty clear from what I've said in thread, and although WBG's flip changes things slightly (Sandroba looks more town than if he gave an odd defense of a scumbuddy). | ||
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So I could see one of you getting got. Sure, other options, but in a closed setup you guys being semi-confirmed by roles is a pain for scum. I put BH on my personal list in this category too, because of his snap counterclaim on the masons. I really, really hope you guys get most of your thoughts into thread tonight. | ||
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On December 05 2012 10:53 Keirathi wrote: This is true...but would leave you as mafia. Which would leave you as mafia saying you were mafia. @Austin: Don't be stupid. If you believe that BH is a mason, then you have to believe that he wasn't lying about his role PM that said he and MrZ were confirmed town to each other. Because the other alternative is FOUR MASONS IN A 15 PLAYER GAME Yes, his role PM said MrZ was town. The host, however, tells me the setup is closed, not to trust anyone, and that everyone (including BH) is lying scum On November 22 2012 06:53 JingleHell wrote: I don't...I don't think we're in a bastard-modded game though, and so it seems farfetched that the PM itself is a lie.Setup Information This game is a completely closed setup. Trust noone. They're all lying scum. BH, that is absolutely positively the PM that you received? It's odd to me that BH, almost certainly town, received a PM that says MrZ, his mason buddy, was town. But WBG, who was town, had a mason PM that does NOT say his mason buddy is town. Keirathi, do you have logs between you and WBG? I guess you're right, I shouldn't be stupid...and should think that you're more likely than BH or MrZ to be scum? Seriously...FOUR TOWN MASONS? That's silly. | ||
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On December 05 2012 11:01 MrZentor wrote: This is a friggin' understatementI think Austin is getting a little.... PARANOID | ||
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On December 05 2012 11:17 Keirathi wrote: How the fuck to even respond to such pants-on-head retarded theories? Why did I, as scum masoned with WBG, claim the masonry to TRY TO SAVE HIM? Why did I spend so much time during the day defending him if I knew I was scum and that he was town? I could have just AFK'd the day out and let him die, never claimed the Mason, and people would have just been asking who the hell his partner was for the rest of the game. I seriously have no fucking clue what you're thinking here. "Keir has played like he's town. WBG flipped town mason. But Keir might be scum, guys!" As to the bolded part: what if....*GASP*...BH is lying about the PM? Hi there. WBG was a town mason. Apparently masoned with you. You have no way of knowing if he comes back to the game and goes "Don't lynch me bros, I'm a mason with Keirathi." If you does that, you have to confirm ANYWAY. You can't very well say you're not masoned with him if he actually gets lynched, that's information that was GOING to come out into the thread. Like...you're saying "You really think I would have done this, just afk out?" But no, you wouldn't do that as either alignment, because WBG could claim and make you look REALLY suspicious, and you can't be sure he won't come back and do so. You have to claim. The claim doesn't make you town or mafia. Whereas BH COUNTERCLAIMED mason when you did. That tells me he's actually a mason, as he's taking an ENORMOUS risk (himself and zentor) if you guys are actually masoned, because 2 pairs is too much. He doesn't know what WBG is, what you are, but he knows he's a mason and it's fishy that you'd claim. I see his counterclaim as far more indicative of towniness than I see your claiming for WBG. You had to. He didn't, and straight up risked the lives of 2 mafia players if he's not town. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:06 ShiaoPi wrote: Okay I must admit that I came back to the thread this late, because I fully expected to be lynched by all of your for stupid reasons. Well first off I am pleasantly surprised to be still alive, secondly how the heck was bugs town?!?!?! and finally WTF!!!! is this setup, 4 claimed mason, a dt and a vig. Dunno it is a lot to comprehend at once and I am way too tired to do some critical thinking now. I will look into the whole mason mess more closely tomorrow. Can't figure out what to make of ShiaoPi. If he were scum, then scum was under pressure yesterday to get votes on WBG and we can maybe get something out of that. If he's not scum...come on man. We need more analysis from you regardless, but also you've got a lot of people on you and you don't seem very worried. Pleasantly surprised to be alive...how is that your reaction to nearly being lynched? How is your reaction just "Ok, cool. I'm alive, this is good, wow some interesting stuff sure happened there, be back maybe before the end of night or perhaps just D3." I don't expect LVII(i think that's correct) end-of-game antics from you, but...it would be nice if we had more to work off of with you. You're posting very infrequently, often just to say that you'll be gone some more. That doesn't give us anything to work with, and it starts to look like you're just stalling and trying to keep from getting lynched for another day or so. | ||
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On December 06 2012 06:16 Xatalos wrote: Peculiar.It somehow looks like austinmcc is reluctant to talk about ShiaoPi. He rarely even mentions ShiaoPi, let alone asks him anything or interacts with him. When he does mention ShiaoPi, it's like this post (soft defending him without really committing to anything). I'm reluctant to talk about ShiaoPi and I rarely mention him or ask him anything. Yet you can pull out a couple quotes showing me doing that... Yes, the interaction is odd. I'm trying to figure out someone who just won't post, but who has done so as town and scum both before. Plus, he's someone I usually read based off of his reads, and without more info from him I find it difficult to read him myself. | ||
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On December 06 2012 07:27 Keirathi wrote: We didn't have a QT. We just talked on irc. And you didn't log at all? Copy paste into notepad? | ||
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On December 06 2012 07:37 Keirathi wrote: What benefit does me sharing them give? We've pushed/attacked/defended the same targets, which are the only people we've talked a ton about. I don't see what benefit sharing them would be at this point. I'd like to see what WBG said. I'd like to be able to make up my mind on you. IF you're town, you should be seeing yourself as a possible target tonight, and trying to get information into thread. If you don't share, and scum kills you 20 minutes from now, we just lost those logs. | ||
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I am a watcher. N1 I watched marvellosity. Sandroba, and only Sandroba, visited him. Therefore, Sandroba killed marvellosity. Therefore, Sandroba. If you look at my D2, I ask Sandroba a couple questions, some concerning his reads on ShiaoPi and WBG, especially his defense of WBG. This is one reason I ended up locked in on WBG and not wanting to lynch ShiaoPi, and one reason I've been weird about ShiaoPi. Sandroba dropped a vote and ShiaoPi early and was gone for much of the rest of the day, and defended WBG in this odd manner. In my mind, knowing that Sandroba was scum, it made the choice between the two easy - lynch WBG. I didn't claim because I actually thought WBG was scum, that there was no need to claim to ensure a scum lynch. Now, we've got a bit of uncertainty, so I can do so. We can lynch Sandroba to partially-confirm me if you guys would like, you can lynch me to confirm (not recommended). Tonight I am watching keirathi or BH. Still flipping back and forth between the two (5 minutes until end). Scum, non-sandroba scum, pretty please shoot the guy I'm watching. Right now I'm worried about the power roles in town. Confirmed cop, confirmed 1 mason pair of at least one townie, I'm confirmed watcher to me. That leaves a vigi...maybe? And maybe other masons. For a game in which scum had one KP N1 allegedly. Not buying it. Either DYH is scum or SK or scum has large numbers low KP, something. Otherwise, I've kind of been a bum as I am wont to be when blue, relying on role too much to play the game and not analysis, and also trying to wrap my head around CT mafia. Now that this is in the open, I can go back to playing normally. Slash what an awful end of night/claim post. | ||
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On December 06 2012 08:06 Keirathi wrote: So austin, you had a confirmed scum check and didn't push a sandro lynch AT ALL? AND said this: You had a confirmed scum check but still assumed that sandro would be shot by scum? No deal. ##Vote: austinmcc Yup. I had a confirmed scum check. You KNOW someone is scum, 100%. But town is in an okay spot and doesn't NEED a scum lynch D2 to survive, and you think one of the top lynch candidates looks scum + is being defended by the guy you know is scum + the guy you know is scum is attacking the only other candidate. Do you think it's actually ridiculous to try and milk information out of scum in that situation? I want Sandro to take stances, to give thoughts (you'll note there isn't very much of that beyond the lynch post we all (including me) kind of liked). I'd like to be able to look back after lynching him D3, and maybe finding another scum N2, to be able to try and get some associative juju going. | ||
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On December 06 2012 08:20 Keirathi wrote: Yes, it is ridiculous. If you have a scum check on someone, you push that as hard as you can. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work, and you start looking for associations from the people keeping it from working. You do NOT, under any circumstances, think that that person would be shot by mafia. What's your explanation for that, since you dodged that part of my argument? That part, Senor Keirathi, is absolutely not true? What do you do as a cop or someone with a red check on scum most of the time? You make a case on them, you push them. Heck, that's one way you're supposed to confirm cop claims, look for sudden changes in reads that aren't really explained, but that the guy is suddenly sure of after a night. We all know this, Sandroba knows this. If I'm going to be retarded and sneaky, I can't come out and go "I NOW THINK SANDROBA IS SCUM. BECAUSE...WELL HE HASN'T BEEN POSTING TOO MUCH SO THERE'S NOT MUCH TO GO ON BUT HE'S TOTES SCUM NOW" then, even if I convince town, I out myself completely. I was hoping to be able to get another check off, maybe catch someone else, and hoping to keep a low profile so Sandroba wouldn't suspect anything and would respond. | ||
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But if I'm trying to get him to actually speak openly, it felt like something fun to throw in. Gives a reason for him to need to speak up if he wants to look town. | ||
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 Yes, I could be mean old nasty scum, just trying to get you to lynch Sandroba in order to buy time for me to NK townies. MWAHAHAHAHA. Of course, you could be mean old nasty scum, just trying to get people to lynch me in order to buy time for you to NK townies. MWAHAHAHAHA. I don't know about anyone else, and I only called it peculiar at the time, but this post felt INCREDIBLY constructed and worked-on, compared to a lot of the thread. It yelled I'M A SCUM POST. I'M A SCUM POST. to me when I first read it. + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2012 06:16 Xatalos wrote: I'm starting to believe more and more that all of the claims so far have been real. There are some strong points to be made for all of them: 1) If DYH was SK, it would be an almost impossible stroke of luck that he claimed Vigi at such a time when it couldn't have realistically saved him anymore - although it managed to somehow save him anyway. And even if he still somehow was SK, it's a fact that there are still Mafia alive, so it's beyond stupid IMO to lynch a nearly confirmed Vigi while letting Mafia freely continue killing. 2) Keirathi was WBG's Mason partner, and unless this is some really cruel joke of a setup by the host, Keirathi must be town. Granted, it's "paranoia" Mafia, but lynching a confirmed Mason would be too stupid (realistically just doing Mafia's work for them). 3) BH/MrZentor would have been extremely stupid to fakeclaim just to ensure one mislynch at the cost of certainly losing the game eventually. Think about it: we now know that they are both town or both Mafia. If one of them would flip Mafia (lynch/SK kill/whatever), it would be GG right there and then. It's an extremely disadvantegeous position to put yourself into without any real gain. It's also most likely that one of them will be nightkilled before LYLO, which would confirm the other. It would make absolutely zero sense to lynch either of them. That means we have pretty much half the players as confirmed town, which is a great spot. I'm worried about what roles Mafia might have, though (or if they might have 4 players) considering the strong roles town has. But now it's basically just a process of elimination to figure out the remaining Mafia. Realistically DYH, Keirathi, BH and MrZentor are out of the picture. I'm also leaning town on debears, sandroba, austinmcc and Lazermonkey. That just leaves... ShiaoPi. What?? There's just no way there would be only 2 Mafia in a setup this stacked with blue roles. I feel like our only sensible option is to lynch ShiaoPi tomorrow, and in hindsight I feel it might have been better to lynch him today instead of WBG. Although WBG's flip at least (practically) confirmed Keirathi and the reality of this setup having tons of blues, so it's not too bad. I started suspecting this earlier and it's still on the back of my mind, although it ONLY makes sense if ShiaoPi is indeed Mafia. I mean austinmcc's weird behavior towards ShiaoPi. Let me show you some posts of his: It somehow looks like austinmcc is reluctant to talk about ShiaoPi. He rarely even mentions ShiaoPi, let alone asks him anything or interacts with him. When he does mention ShiaoPi, it's like this post (soft defending him without really committing to anything). In my mind it's way more scummy to make vague defenses for Mafia players than to directly defend them or to at least openly analyze them (granted, we don't know ShiaoPi's flip at this point). Once again some more vague comments on ShiaoPi after the WBG lynch, although this time apparently willing to lynch him. I can't help but feel like austinmcc has realized that his scumbuddy is most likely being lynched tomorrow, and that this post is the start for preparations to convincingly bus him and get some towncred. There's also a stark difference between austinmcc's lenient attitude towards ShiaoPi's scummy points and his way of finding the smallest things about WBG as scummy. This is just an intro, and not really a convincing case without knowing ShiaoPi's alignment at all, but considering my scumread on ShiaoPi and the lack of other suspects, I'll have to drop my townread on austinmcc and read through his filter looking for possible Mafia motivations later. | ||
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Curious. All I know for sure right now, is that Sandroba is scum. If you think I'm so scummy, why is Sandroba townie? I notice in that post you say "you're leaning town" on Sandroba, but you don't give any further reasoning. See posts like these: D1 - Xatalos thinks Dandel Ion is scummy On December 02 2012 01:14 Xatalos wrote: What I'm most concerned about are these players: VisceraEyes, DoYouHas, Dandel Ion. They all have been pretty passive background characters who are not lurking/trolling/playing bad, but not really doing anything either. I think there's a high chance for 1-2 of them being Mafia. [Stuff on VE] Dandel Ion hasn't put any real effort into his posts yet. He's just made some fluff one-liners and semi-useful "advice" like these: Dandel Ion doesn't just seem to care about Mafia hunting, even though he has posted a decent amount and with semi-useful content as well. I'd need to see some real improvement in his posting to make my suspicions fade. Sharing some reads or anything beneficial to finding Mafia would be a good start. On December 02 2012 02:55 Xatalos wrote: VisceraEyes at the moment. DoYouHas and Dandel Ion haven't made any actual effort to contribute, but they haven't done anything outright scummy either. I'm most suspicious of VE's opportunistic vote for debears and his lack of interest to do pretty much anything useful after that. On December 02 2012 05:01 Xatalos wrote: If any of VE/DYH/Dandel can't be lynched tonight, at least it's a perfect opportunity to make some pressure. I'll change my target from VE if needed before the deadline. 3 posts, VE and Dandel Ion so scummy. Let's lynch em. Let's lynch em. N1/D2 - Dandel Ion now Sandroba, Sandroba suddenly townie for no real reason On December 03 2012 19:54 Xatalos wrote: Of my other original suspects VE was obviously Mafia and DYH is now confirmed town, and Dandel Ion was replaced by sandroba (who feels townish so far) so I'm not willing to lynch other players at this moment. On December 03 2012 22:16 Xatalos wrote: Hmm. Alright, I can agree with lynching ShiaoPi today. It also helps that I have a town read on both you and WBG. And ShiaoPi hasn't been lurking quite as heavily as Zealos, but he hasn't done anything either. ##Unvote ##Vote ShiaoPi Although I'm wondering where Zealos has disappeared. And Lazermonkey. What we need now is more posts by several players who haven't done anything for a while (or even all game). On December 04 2012 04:36 Xatalos wrote: I'm willing to give Dandel/Sandroba a pass though, since Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been very helpful with his posts. On December 06 2012 06:16 Xatalos wrote: Realistically DYH, Keirathi, BH and MrZentor are out of the picture. I'm also leaning town on debears, sandroba, austinmcc and Lazermonkey. Would you care to explain why Sandroba is townie? Would you care to explain why DI was one of your top scum suspects D1, but D2 it's "Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been helpful with his posts" so they get a pass? It's curious to me that one of your top 3 scumreads became a guy you think is townie but you never actually said why. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 08:38 Xatalos wrote: Wut? Is that post supposed to be a joke or something? If so, I'd appreciate if you actually tried to convince the thread you're telling the truth. Like... Any breadcrumbs? Role PM? Anything? Breadcrumbs can be faked np. Same as with a breadcrumb, if you believe my claim, you may find that it explains some of my ShiaoPi v. WBG actions, and explains me trying to milk info from Sandroba. If you don't, you'll think I'm making it up, whether breadcrumb or explanation. The "anything" that I can PROVE my role with would be nothing, unless we have a rolecop. However, Sandro will flip red whenever you lynch him. And I'll flip watcher if I die. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:02 Blazinghand wrote: so wait austin explain again why you didn't vote/lynch sandro d2? it was because WBG case was so good? In part, it's kind of...circular if you look back at it. I knew Sandroba was mafia. If another good target didn't appear early, could always push Sandroba. From pretty early on, ShiaoPi was a candidate. Sandroba was voting ShiaoPi, made a small case on ShiaoPi, wanted ShiaoPi dead. In my mind, I'd gone into D2 thinking ShiaoPi was potentially mafia, but wasn't sure. Sandroba being on him scared me away from that. Not only was I slightly worried about WBG, but I still feel like Sandroba defended him in a bit of an odd manner, called him town in an odd manner. Because I knew Sandroba was mafia, I saw the case on ShiaoPi as weaker, and the case on WBG as stronger. Had extra information you didn't have from just looking at the cases. Couldn't be sure Sandroba wasn't bussing, or wasn't looking at two townies, but just didn't like his comments on WBG enough that I was okay with the idea that they were scumbuddies. Long as I think they're scumbuddies, I'm fine lynching WBG and not Sandroba. Claim right before night tonight, try and get another check off, either catch someone or no, and have a scumlynch D3. When the mason claims came out, I again have outside knowledge. Some people don't think there could be DT + vigi + 4 masons. I know that we have at least dt + watcher + some masons, and a claimed vigi. So that's another reason I'm extra insistent that we don't have 4 masons. If you thought the setup was too blue-heavy with so many masons, it's more blue heavy if you knew I was a watcher. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:14 Xatalos wrote: Posts. Specifics.The main suspicious point about Dandel Ion was his clear lack of care for achieving anything. He posted little and didn't interact, scumhunt, analyze... It could have been just disinterested town as well though. But Sandroba has been transparent and his posts have been filled with real content. He's not my top town read, given his relative inactivity, but I'm not liking him as scum. You say Sandroba has been transparent. I disagree (not just because he didn't tell us he was scum). You say his posts have been filled with content. On December 03 2012 03:43 sandroba wrote: I'm gonna make a post with my comments right before the deadline. Replaces in, promises an end of night post. Fine, some people like not posting during night, but Sandroba JUST JOINED and says nothing but that there will be an end of night post. On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote: I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early: Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM): WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum. Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said. DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through. Scummers : Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it. People that I'm unsure but leaning scum: VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though. Here is his giant night post. 4 townreads including "so townie I don't understand how you baddies blah blah blah" which doesn't actually say anything. 2 scumreads, one he "doesn't think he needs to explain" and one post from Zealos that he doesn't like because "it has scum written all over it" LOOK AT THAT NIGHT POST. He replaces in, waits all night, ends night with that post. There are his reads. Half of them aren't even reads, they're just him saying he thinks someone is town or scum but without an actual reason. This from someone who replaced in, for someone who was inactive. On December 03 2012 21:38 sandroba wrote: Hmm Bugs does have a point. Also if we assume BH is town ShiaoPi does fit the same theme as VE yesterday. A totally unimpactful player that just stood by the sidelines, because their team was never in danger. I'm willing to roll with that because I'm getting cold feet about BH flipping scum (VE mentioning he is okay with lynching him/zealos should at least make us consider looking in another direction) and Shiao isn't doing shit so it's less risk involved. ##Vote: ShiaoPi ShiaoPi stood by sidelines, isn't doing shit. That's worth of a vote. WBG picks up some votes On December 04 2012 12:00 sandroba wrote: Omg I thought this would blow over, but I see it's getting momentum. I'll post my thoughts when I wake up. 11 hours later he finally defends WBG. On what grounds? "WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia." No posts, no quoting, just "his behavior doesn't make sense." his "tone and emotional content" were genuine. No specifics. It's not quite a nothingpost, but it says what Sandroba thinks without the WHY he thinks that. N2 we get like 5 lines responding to DYH's rabbit hole. So Xatalos, Where has Sandroba been transparent? Which posts were filled with real content to you? Point them out. Let's discuss this. I know he's scum, but I'm curious about your defense of him. Because right now, you've never mentioned a single specific post, and I 100% disagree that Sandroba has been transparent. Moreover, I 1000% disagree with you that Sandroba was "transparent" at the time you made mention of him being so. I see a few posts with some reasoning and some logic, but most of them are after you already starting leaning townie on him. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:26 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah, it should be.the lack of a PM and the lack of a rolecrumb is meaningless on an investigative role. The lack of a check/result crumb and the lack of pressure on sandro is trohblng I didn't crumb the risk/Gonzaw PM in bureaucracy either. I crumbed the hell out of being mason with Sciberbia in Can't Believe. But that's the only thing I've crumbed ever I believe. What I'd say is this - look at Sandroba's posts. Look at his N1, his N2. I probably cannot drop my confirmation bias, and I don't want to just yell my head off for 40 something hours today. But I believe that some of his posts that look like they have content don't, they're full of "reads" that aren't actually based on anything. A lot of the other posts don't have content at all. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 10:04 Keirathi wrote: It's actually 100% guaranteed.Your confirmation bias? Confirmation bias comes from not being sure about something but convincing yourself anyways, not from having a 95%+ guaranteed scum check. Here's part of my problem (aside from the fact that you had a red check and didn't do anything about it): your WBG/ShiaoPi analysis doesn't fit with what sandro did in Chrono before he died. "I wouldn't trust Toad as party leader", and calling Dieno town, etc. And him not giving strong reasoning for his reads isn't alignment telling at all (hell, didn't you play with him in Looney where he did basically the same thing?) I know Sandroba is scum So everything I see from him I go, "Scum wrote that." Whatever it is, it's similar. It colors the entire way I see D2. | ||
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On December 06 2012 10:04 Keirathi wrote: I can't tell you whether Sandro is playing to this meta or that meta. I can tell you he's scum.Your confirmation bias? Confirmation bias comes from not being sure about something but convincing yourself anyways, not from having a 95%+ guaranteed scum check. Here's part of my problem (aside from the fact that you had a red check and didn't do anything about it): your WBG/ShiaoPi analysis doesn't fit with what sandro did in Chrono before he died. "I wouldn't trust Toad as party leader", and calling Dieno town, etc. And him not giving strong reasoning for his reads isn't alignment telling at all (hell, didn't you play with him in Looney where he did basically the same thing?) Then, I can pressure Xatalos for saying things about Sandroba that I personally don't find to be true. Right now, I don't care what Sandroba normally does as town or scum, because I know his alignment. I care what Xatalos thinks about Sandroba, because it's telling of Xatalos's alignment. Also yes, I played in Looney Lynching. And in Looney Lynching I actually DIDN'T lynch Sandroba D1. Do you know what I did do? I had a blue role, I was a veteran. And I decided to give away votes on D1 (everyone thought I was retarded) and be coy about my claim on the day I was lynched (people lynched me anyway). That's the only time I've ever been lynched, and it was because I'm a 'tard when blue. That's beside the point though. Sandroba is scum. Xatalos has some odd thoughts on him. I like investigating that. | ||
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austinmcc
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The "pressure" you quote is 3 small questions to people. Do you find that he followed up on his questions? Do his reads look like he actually cared about his questions and the way that other players answered? If "he asked these three questions" is something you find townie...there's a problem. In fact, you'll notice that you said Sandroba felt "townish" after REPLACING ONE OF YOUR TOP 3 SCUMREADS at 19:54 on December 3. Out of the posts you listed of Sandroba's, the following were prior to that: His asking about marv's sanity His 3 dinky questions His reads at the end of the night, which are half "it's so obvious I don't need to explain it" That's what you had to work with when you first said Sandroba seemed townie. Sandroba, the guy who replaced one of your top 3 scumreads from D1. | ||
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On December 06 2012 10:46 Xatalos wrote: If Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread for you, then who WERE your strong scumreads D1? Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread for me to at any point, maybe slightly leaning scum. He was just someone I wasn't feeling comfortable about since he didn't really seem to care. But Sandroba was the opposite, instantly asking relevant questions and sharing his opinions about any topic. Granted, I'd like to see some more evidence for his opinions from now on, but the point is that he clearly cares about what's happening in the thread and tries to actively direct the flow of the thread. IMO his posting style is a bit like MrZentor's, except more townish (with more reasoning and less sheeping). If you find Sandroba scummy, you should find MrZentor scummy as well (granted, he's clearly a Mason, but I mean on principle). 3 different opportunities you grouped together VE/DYH/Dandel Ion. VE was scummiest to you, you did say that. And I'm not whether I believe you'd have put 2 scumbuddies in a list of three. If Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread, was DYH? If neither of those were strong scumreads, you just had a strong scumread on VE and nobody else? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:08 Keirathi wrote: I know there will be postgame discussion on this. I may well be in the wrong. But I think I'm willing to argue there's a fourth option:Again, you're completely missing the point of what I'm trying to say. Your actions during the day yesterday just don't line up with what a person with a scum check would do, IMO. So if you're an information role and have a scum check on someone, you really have 3 options: 1) Claim to get them lynched. Fine, you didn't want to do that. 2) Push as hard as you can for that person to get lynched without claiming. Make a case. Make a meta case. Do whatever you can to get SOMEONE to think that person is scum. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but you still have the claim to fall back on later. 3) Think you have zero chance of getting the person lynched without claiming, so you engage that person, and try to get them to slip up, and make some associative cases for when you do decide to claim. Which is what you said you were doing. But, if you have a scum check on someone and don't think you can push them to a lynch, why in the world wouldn't you go back and look at some scum games of that person to see what they tend to say about their teammates? Why would just assume that "sando saying WBG is town means that WBG is scum, and sandro pushing ShiaoPi means ShiaoPi is town"? Would you assume the same thing if that scum check was on marv, who has a history of bussing 'liability' teammates who are likely to get lynched anyways? You put no effort into doing anything that can be seen by me as even remotely pushing a town agenda towards a scum scum check. THAT'S my problem (4) Know a dude is scum, make sure you don't ever die without telling town, and try to use that knowledge to hunt MORE scum, not just the guy you know. Did it work? NOT PARTICULARLY WELL. But I don't think it's too farfetched to argue that if you know someone is scum, when he wants to lynch A and defends B, there's a decent chance that B is scum and A is not. Or at least that A is not. I believe I'm an idiot for taking it into account as much as I did, but I don't see it as not being something to use. | ||
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Moreover, hmmmm. If you don't think it makes sense for me to act as I did on D2, does it make sense for me to claim at the end of N2? If I'm scum trying to trade 1 for 1 with a townie, it's much easier to claim at the start of D3. I can claim tracker on Sandroba, watcher on DYH, cop, whatever. But if I'm faking, I could fake that I found out just now. If I'm scum trying to bus...same thing. I want town to flip scum AND I want to look town. Moreover, I would have discussed this with my scumbuddies, so if I'm scum and bussing...we all AGREED that I should make this play right at the end of night Does the timing actually make sense as scum? I guess you can argue that apparently it's stupid whether town or scum, but...oh well. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:27 Keirathi wrote: Tbh, I wasn't actually planning on having to convince people. I know he's scum. If he dies, you'll know he's scum. If I die, you'll know he's scum. And if I got lucky and caught someone else, same thing...the proof is in the flips. Your 4th option is the same thing as the third option. You're playing the "long game" because you ddin't think you could get sandro lynched. And you're right, it's not out-of-this-world-unheard of for a scum to attack a townie and defend a scum partner (hell, attacking townies is what scum have to do to win a game), but its a fucking ridiculous assumption to assume that every person that a scum targets is town and everyone they defend is scum. And again: why didn't you do ANY kind of research into the matter? Maybe sandro loves to bus as scum every single game. Don't you think that would have affected your reads at all, if you wanted to play the "long game"? That's the part I don't get. Nothing you did matches up with what I would expect a reasonable person with a scum check to do. And I don't think you're an idiot in general, so that just leaves you lying and getting caught with your pants down. So nope, didn't go look at any past Sandroba games. No clue if he likes to bus. All I know is that other people say he's lazy as scum. That's it. I'd argue that he's been relatively lazy this game, ymmv on that. Just figured the fact that he's scum and that will eventually be proven would magically work, regardless of how he plays this game. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:31 Blazinghand wrote: So there are a couple of things I don't like about austin's claim, and make me think it's a fake claim, ignoring rolecrumbs and role pm shenannies. 1) He didn't act on his N1 check in any way. I don't think with an N1 scum check on Sandro anyone would really be so passive. Like, shit man, why not push Sandro? Why pussyfoot around him? You can be like "oh I want more info" but nothing austinmcc does towards Sandro actually is like "yes info plz" or pressure or really anything you do to someone you have a strong scumread on. 2) His N2 check is sub-optimal. The #1 shots for last night for scum were DYH and Kei, who are the most confirmed. players. In theory, even though MrZ has been playing for the town all game, MrZ/BH is at least possible. The DYH 30 seconds claim and shot confirms him, and Kei has a flipped partner and is literally confirmed. I wasn't a realistic shot. 3) He didn't result-crumb. Without a result crumb at the start of D2 he's committed to claiming at the end of N2, which isn't how you do things as an investigative role. His actions don't really make sense 4) His red check is on a near-universal townread and he himself is scummy. Austinmcc is a great 1-for-1 sacrifice for the scumteam, especially eliminating someone who's a universal townread (but not confirmed). Right now we're at LYLO-1. If we lynch Sandro, then Austin, there are 2 scum left and we're at LYLO. Good situation for scum all things considered. I see no reason to believe this claim. ##vote: austinmcc You and BH claim role PMs that SAY THE OTHER PERSON IS TOWN. Keirathi and WBG's PMs don't say that. DYH was up there with you guys. I chose between you, Keirathi, and DYH. Eliminated folks based on setup speculation. Risky for you and MrZ to snap counterclaim Mason on Keirathi, and it can't be the case that only one of you is town because both your role PMs say the other guy is town. You are either BOTH scum or NEITHER of you is scum or your pms lie. It's not a bastard game, so PMs lying goes out the window. Therefore, you're either both scum or neither of you is scum. Keirathi doesn't have that same PM. Heck, yesterday people were on his case about the color of certain words in his PM. It's different. That doesn't mean he's scum, but he doesn't have the same 2 for 1 risk problem as you and MrZ. That, in my mind, makes him less confirmed. He's confirmed to be a mason with WBG. His alignment is not. DYH ... was an option but I didn't go with it. 15 player game and only 1 kp? I loves me some setup speculation, and that felt wrong. So I didn't want to check him because options were: (1) he's not actually a town vigi; (2) he is a town vigi, but claimed one-shot, and scum is okay with letting him live because his reads don't frighten them; (3) he is a town vigi, scum needs him gone. There's my thought process. Out of the masons, you and MrZ are taking a big risk counterclaiming. I don't currently think you guys are scum, and your PMs rule out a 1 scum/1 town mason pairing. Keirathi doesn't have the same, so you're more likely town than he is (this isn't just my opinion, there were a LOT of people thinking that you and MrZ are town now based on those PMs). So if I'm watching a mason, I watch you. Between you and DYH, EVEN IF DYH is town, there's a chance he's still not the kill, so I'd rather watch you. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:36 Keirathi wrote: Why did I claim when I did if I'm scum?We aren't talking about why you didn't try to get Sandro killed. I thought we already agreed that was a terrible decision. We're talking about why you pushed to get WBG lynched because of his interactions with Sandro, while simultaneously saving ShiaoPi. If you know Sandro is scum, those kinds of interactions with Sandro can definitely be mined for information, IF YOU KNOW HOW YOU EXPECT SANDRO TO ACT. Just assuming that "scum isn't going to attack a teammate or defend a townie" is such faulty logic (and I can give you as many examples as you want of the opposites being true) that I don't believe that even you, as pants-on-head as you can get at times, would assume that and leave NO room for any other explanation. Between my earlier filter and Dandel Ion/Sandroba's earlier filter...who looks town to you. Either way, Sandroba and I should both end up dead here. I have given you what I can of why I did what I did D2. I'm not going to change my story to something you'd prefer or would believe more. I did what I did, for the reasons I say I did, whether it's stupid or not. So tomorrow I'm looking at LazerMonkey and some other general stuff. I don't like what I saw from Xatalos tonight. ShiaoPi is still doing whatever ShiaoPi's doing this game. I'm going to deal with that tomorrow. You can believe me or not, lynch me or sandroba or someone else or whatever. | ||
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On December 06 2012 12:42 Keirathi wrote: Of course I considered the possibility.Also, you were scum in Aperture 2. Your partner Hiro bussed your godfather/joat on day 1. Yet you didn't even CONSIDER the possibility that sandroba was? Or that WBG could actually be town? I didn't know what to make of ShiaoPi. Everything I wrote about WBG were my true thoughts, regardless of Sandroba's comments. There's absolutely a possibility that my read was wrong (it was). But I decided that between me not loving the marv interaction, never having an explanation on him disbelieving marv's claim, AND Sandroba's actions D2, I was confident in WBG being scum. I didn't go "What is Sandroba doing I will do the opposite." It was an additional factor for me beyond my basic thoughts. We can discuss whether I'm a jubjub, or King in the Jub, postgame. Yes, some/all of you think what I did, if I actually took the course of action I did, was stupid. Fine. Stupid is on another axis. It makes my claim less believable than if you didn't think what I did was stupid, but votes iz fer scumminess and not stupidity. Heck, if you want to talk meta, and how I didn't go check on Sandroba or anything, go look at my blue games. (1) Message DT in Bureaucracy - I decide it's a good plan to look like a paranoid idiot early on in order to not be a threat to anyone and survive until lategame (Kind of a good idea? But definitely altering my play that whole game because of a role) (2) Mason in Can't Believe - Mason chat has bunch of discussion about when to claim, how to claim, etc. etc. Sciberbia and I got caught up in being blue, wasted a lot of time being idiots. Heck, I flipped mason and Sciberbia DIDN'T CLAIM to be my buddy, because we were so paranoid. (3) Vigi in...LVII? I think that's right. Two-shot vigi. Shoot someone N1. N2 what do I do? Hold my shot instead of dropping a lurker or anyone helpful to town, thinking, as I did here, that by using my powers later on I could potentially benefit town. Ended up dead. (4) Veteran in Looney Lynching - THIS ISN'T EVEN A POWER ROLE. I JUST DON'T DIE TO ONE SHOT. And yet i STILL concoct a stupid plan to give away votes at the end of D1, which I thought would make me look townie and draw a shot, but everyone else finds scummy. Then on the day I get lynched, I decide to be all mysterious and save my claim til the last moment hoping someone would figure things out and not even really understanding why some folks were voting for me. 2 times I've been blue I actively played differently than normal because of blue. The vigi game is the same logic as here, "Well, won't get the most of out my power NOW, because I can potentially get MORE out of it if I use it later too." Mason game is partially just us being idiots at some points in time because of blue. If you're going to think I'm scummy because I didn't do homework you would have done, you should at least do the same homework yourself. I appreciate that you don't think I'm an idiot, but here's a different question, do you think I'm an idiot when I'm blue? | ||
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You think my timing/actions are stupid. You think they're stupid whether I'm town or mafia, yes? It doesn't magically make sense for me to claim at what apparently was a retarded to time if I'm mafia, does it? If you think I should have claimed at the start of D2, or been more apparent during D2, how does that lead you to believe that I am mafia? If I were mafia, I could have: (1) Planned this ahead of time. Could have acted in accordance with how you think I should have on D2. Could have claimed at the start of D3, said I got a N2 check. (2) Not planned this ahead of time. Still would be more believable I guess to claim at the start of D3, say I got a N2 check. If you think the timing is wrong, or my actions are wrong, for me being watcher, fine. But how are they right for me being mafia? The timing/actions would still seem wrong to you, regardless of my alignment, right? | ||
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You, along with all other not-mes, find my actions ridiculous and don't believe my claim. Okay. So then, about my play: (1) You think my play is less optimal as town than as scum. Go into that, why? You think I didn't play out D2 properly if I had a red check. But that applies equally to not playing out my D2 properly if I was going to do this as scum. Especially given that I can easily make up other things as scum. Why is one less optimal than the other? (2) Have you looked at the past games I listed? Do they matter to you? Should they? As to you, I see a mix of posts in your filter. Mostly short ones. Some longer ones when you respond, make a case on ShiaoPi, actually get involved. But apart from throwing in some general musings on WBG/ShiaoPi and masons, and your case on ShiaoPi, I don't get the feeling there's much there. DYH was worried about you yesterday, and now he's a bit deceased. So, some questions. At the end of each night, you've given two massive posts of reads. Why? Why not give them throughout the night? Why are most of your reads only ever popping up this late? Moreover, your reads on Sandroba haven't exactly been townie... On December 03 2012 08:00 Lazermonkey wrote: DI/Sandroba I cannot comment on really. There isn't anything to comment on in fact. On December 06 2012 07:59 Lazermonkey wrote: Sandroba - I haven't done very much analysis on him either. However one of his posts earlier today caught my attention a bit. Remember that Sandrobawas not present during the lynch. Not even close, He basically went afk about 12 hours before it. Also, he doesn't actually comment on anything regarding the lynch. Just that it's bad. Saying stuff like this risk to demoralize town. So why would someone as town say this? I really don't see the motivation for it. Not really lych worthy but still. I will look more closely into sandroba later. You don't see a town motivation for a post Sandroba made. That's basically your only comment on Sandroba. Did you ever go look at Sandroba? If not...why not? Especially given he's a major player in today's lynch, why haven't you looked at him? | ||
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On December 07 2012 05:34 debears wrote: Well for one, I'd rather push the guy I have a confirmed red check on. Right now, that's taking up a good bit of my time. That's why I'm not pushing anyone else right now (although hopefully you can see that I'm still trying to figure this game out).Ausin, I remember after GSL III you mentioned that you love setup speculation when I asked you about it. I would like to know that why you wouldn't push BH/MrZ as scum based on setup speculation. If they're claim was false, then there'd be a vig, cop, 2 masons, and a watcher. That's 5 blues. I would think you would be super suspicious that there would be 2 more masons. In other words, with the knowledge that sandro is scum if you are watcher, the game would be pretty much over. I don't see there being 7 blues. So it's either you or BH and MrZ imo. Combine that with that fact that you watched BH last night for some reason when DYH/Keir would be the obvious nks. Especially with the fact that you should be suspicious of BH and Mrz. WHY WOULD YOU WATCH BH AND NOT KEIR OR DYH WHEN A BH/MRZ CLAIM TRUE WITH YOURS WOULD MAKE 7/15 PLAYERS BLUE AND 4/15 THAT COULD CONFIRM THEMSELVES?????? ##Vote Ausin As to the speculation, rawr. I know we have 4 confirmed roles right now. Other players may know we have 4 confirmed roles, and if BH/MrZ are truthful they know we have 5 confirmed roles if not more. (Vigi, DT, WBG mason, any role the person himself has). I AM super suspicious that there are 4 town masons. Keirathi has put more EFFORT into this game than BH/MrZ, seems to be playing Keirathi-ish. It feels a lot like I remember in Aperture, good number of posts, some good thoughts, trying to figure out the game, but never being the guy to just yell at everyone "HEY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THIS IS RIGHT EVERYONE SHEEP ME." BH/MrZ have the double claim going for them, but specifically the speed at which BH counterclaimed. When I looked things back over, it's the exact same minute as Keirathi's claim. the speed adds legitimacy, because there's no way he started chatting with MrZ in scum QT and they agreed to do this, it would have been a snap call, made unilaterally by a single scum member that affected multiple scum players. If we have 7 blues, or more, that's ridonculous. Or seems ridonculous. Options to balance that would seem to include things like a roleblocker (no claims) or something like that. There's the possibility that there are two scum teams, maybe one without KP, or both have conditional/limited KP, or some other restriction. There's the possibility it's a very large scumteam but low on powers. I don't think I like those options more than I like thinking that one or more of our masons isn't a mason. As to why I watched BH over Keirathi and DYH, I explained that in an earlier post. If I'm watching a mason, the snap claim still feels very strongly town to me at this point. So I'd prefer to watch BH over Keirathi. Neither is a bad scumhunter, but I'm pretty sure that Sandroba (who I knew was scum) had played more with BH. Moreover, BH/MrZ are still a mason pair. If all claims are true, Keirathi is now a VT with old mason logs. BH/MrZ are still masons. They are the bigger threat to scum, if claims true. So I'd rather watch BH over Keirathi if I'm watching a mason - why would scum try to take out the unpaired mason over the paired one. Yes, they don't want to confirm boatloads of masons, but as of yet nobody is REALLY questioning BH and MrZ's "you know your buddy is town" PMs. They are...somewhat suspect, but we're not quite there yet (at least not while I'm distracted with today's lynch). So then, again as explained before, I'm down to BH vs. DYH. We've only seen a single night. We saw 2 KP. It's a 15-man game. Potential SK, potential 2 scum teams, potential scum team with multiple KP, or a definite KP and a limited one. And again, Sandroba knows BH better, may feel him more dangerous (if all claims true and both town). And again, BH part of an active mason pair, whereas DYH is claiming to be a one-shot vigi with no shot left. Look at it that way. Out of the 4 claims we had, we had a mason with no mason buddy. We had a one-shot vigi who had already shot. We had an active mason pair. If those claims are true...aren't you firing into the active mason pair as scum, when you saw NO protective roles N1? | ||
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On December 07 2012 05:56 Lazermonkey wrote: Where is the difference? If I'm claiming watcher with a red check on Sandroba, whether real or fake, and I'm behaving in a way that doesn't match up with my claim, why is the town claim less optimal?Austin, I explained why I think your play is very suboptimal in my post quite clear. And the reason I think your claim would be bad from scum PoV is that there probebly would have been better ways of fake claiming and try to trade 1 on 1 with town, though I haven't really thought too much about it. I think for you to be town your play would have to super duper suboptimal while as scum just slightly. Thus Ockhams razer tells me that you are scum. You haven't actually said that. You said said it wouldn't be optimal scum play, and gave reasons why it would be bad town play. But you didn't explain why you think one is for some reason less optimal than the other. Why is it slightly bad as scum but super duper bad as town? Regarding Sandroba, no I haven't looked into him. As a matter of fact, I haven't looked into anyone today because I was really busy IRL. Will probebly be able to do that tomorrow. I did have a slight scum read on him, yes. But I didn't feel like pushing his lynch would be very beneficial because my scum reads on other players were much stronger. You may want to look into the other lynch candidate today before voting. It would probably be a good idea to actually vote based on both of us, no?Beyond that, what do you think about Xatalos right now? | ||
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On December 07 2012 05:58 Lazermonkey wrote: Well, your point is wrong. There is no fucking way in hell he would get away watching anyone but Marv N1. The fact that you even try to use arguments like this makes me wonder if you actually are town. You are missing the point. It's not that I would have claimed to watch someone else N1. It's that I could have claimed at the start of D3 to have watched DYH N2, and seen Sandroba kill him. Nobody is talking about watching other targets N1. | ||
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On December 07 2012 06:05 Lazermonkey wrote: My bad then. But how would you claiming D3 after seeing DYH get killed make you look any better? Ummmm. Maybe because EVERYONE'S ENTIRE DEAL is that I didn't play D2 like I had a redcheck on Sandroba. So instead of claiming at the end of N2, when my play makes no sense, I claim at the start of D3 that I saw Sandroba kill DYH N2. Now my actions fit perfectly with what people want me to have done, or one course of action they wish I'd taken, and I don't have a whole day where I try to be cutesy and then pay for it. If I'm actually scum, I had no reason to be worried about getting killed N2 (or very little?) and so I could have just waited for the start of D3, claimed then, not had this whole issue. | ||
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Obs QT in from Looney Lynching also had a small amount of chatter about how I'm a tard. Post 66, marv notes that I "get too caught up in [my] own web." Ta da. | ||
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On December 07 2012 06:18 Lazermonkey wrote: This should read ''Austin, I explained why I think your TOWN play is very suboptimal in my post quite clear.'' : /. Sorry if that tricked you. I said that you made ALOT of errors in your play town, if you would be town. But the only errors that comes in mind if you are scum is that the timing of the claim is a bit peciliar. But that comes down to WIFOM abit and I also don't know what roles scum have so I don't think it's a very strong point. I cannot be more precise than this tbh. Yes, and I will, like I said. But the amount of time I'm able to play today is quite limited so I decided to focus on you as I felt his alignment comes naturaly after I was able to decide yours. My read on Xata is unchanged. I haven't observed him today. On a scale of 6 ducklings to 14 ducklings, where ducklings are comfortable, how comfortable are you with your vote right now? | ||
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On December 07 2012 06:21 Lazermonkey wrote: Somewhere around 12 and a half duckling I guess? You monster. | ||
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... because of cheating rule #6, which actually isn't about role PMs, and there's another rule that specifically says role PMs are fine. gg me. I'm a bit paranoid about that after bureaucracy. The zombie formerly known as Steve Irwin the Heartless Your years of experience watching animals and saying stupid shit like "Crikey" have given you great patience. Each night, you may move your grave to one person, and see who all visits them at night. I've got my full name in blue. No punctuation after role. I don't have the little (common role name) at the end of it. Also I just want to see what Keirathi thinks about the PM. | ||
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I forgot that scumhunting is something scum does. If they're not masons, they don't have neato mason logs from somewhere. Or if they have logs from somewhere...they'd be scummier? The fact that he can pull up logs so quickly, with actual thoughts and discussion in them, shows that they're almost certainly not lying. Clears up most of my paranoia that BH mighta just gone for broke with the claim. | ||
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I don't know why he knows that, but even seeing that I have a hard time thinking they're scum given the amount of actual stuff BH was just about to post without hesitation. | ||
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On December 07 2012 09:44 Blazinghand wrote: but... tohr ppl posted their pms dood See previous. We can discuss me being King in the Jub later. | ||
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On December 07 2012 09:48 Keirathi wrote: How many scum do you think there are? 4 scum is the most logical explanation. It means 4 mislynches for scum to win (3 to get to LYLO), which is the same as C9++ that doesn't have an SK. 3 scum would mean 5 mislynches for scum to win, which starts getting a lot harder. I think it's a decent assumption. I can't say for sure. We have a boatload of blues apparently, including masons, which I think is a particularly strong role. So in the back of my head is dumb stuff like a third party. We're a long way from that being a legitimate concern, but given that this feels like more blues than a normal game, I'm not discounting the idea there could be more scum. | ||
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I've seen a couple "he didn't act on the redcheck." He did. He just didn't act in any of the ways you want. BH, The ShiaoPi vote was interesting and I thought about trying to get behind lynching him, but that doesn't do anything. That puts today off until tomorrow, because scum will just send Sandroba to kill not-me, and we'll be right back here. I'd rather get this out of the way today. Mason logs. I asked Keirathi for his with WBG. I asked you for yours with MrZ. I asked you for follow-up, more logs, just to make sure. I'm still trying to think through this game, figure out who's the remaining scum and whether all these claims are true. I'm assuming that you can understand why I'd want to see logs, and why you posted a second set immediately clears you guys to me. Is that a scummy thought process? If I'm scum, set to be lynched today, am I really thinking about confirming our masons? Heck...NOBODY ELSE seems to have been worried about this, to want follow-up logs from you guys. Sandroba doesn't seem to want to do anything at all today, other than I guess note that I could be a traitor. Not only am I asking for logs, I'm clearly reading though. I pick out that you talk about scum numbers, which is something that would normally be concerning (being SURE of scum numbers in a closed setup), but oh well. The logs themselves confirm you so I drop it. If I'm scum, I'm probably not the only person in this game asking for logs to try and confirm you guys. If I'm scum, even IF I'm sneaky and ask for logs, I'm probably not reading through them. | ||
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Lazermonkey who said N2 he hadn't done much analysis on Sandroba, and had problems with one of Sand's posts coming from town - + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2012 07:59 Lazermonkey wrote: Sandroba - I haven't done very much analysis on him either. However one of his posts earlier today caught my attention a bit. Remember that Sandrobawas not present during the lynch. Not even close, He basically went afk about 12 hours before it. Also, he doesn't actually comment on anything regarding the lynch. Just that it's bad. Saying stuff like this risk to demoralize town. So why would someone as town say this? I really don't see the motivation for it. Not really lych worthy but still. I will look more closely into sandroba later. Lazermonkey who drops a vote on me. Lazermonkey who admits that he hasn't looked at Sandroba (despite voting to lynch me), but will have lots of time today! + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 05:56 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding Sandroba, no I haven't looked into him. As a matter of fact, I haven't looked into anyone today because I was really busy IRL. Will probebly be able to do that tomorrow. I did have a slight scum read on him, yes. But I didn't feel like pushing his lynch would be very beneficial because my scum reads on other players were much stronger. This is the company you're keeping. | ||
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On December 08 2012 00:41 debears wrote: I thought about it, but I actually figured everyone would just accept my claim. I felt that I'd done a good job of looking townie on D1, everyone seemed to have me as a town read, and so I figured town read --> claim --> lbe trusted --> lynch sandroba --> near-confirmed. Austin Please explain wht you didn't breadcrumb at all your role or checks. What was your thought process? Did you not think of how you would do it right after reading your pm? A couple times throughout the day I thought about crumbing, including towards the very end (crumb it right before claiming). I figured that any later crumbing wouldn't do anything for people who don't care about crumbs, and wouldn't be very believable for people who wanted crumbs, so I figured I'd missed my window. In my head, it looks MORE suspicious to have crumbs at the end of a cycle, during the second night, than it would have to just not have crumbs at all. Along with general "HAI GAIZ CRUMBING CAN BE FAKED." | ||
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On December 08 2012 00:55 debears wrote: Do you have any other games where you were blue? On December 06 2012 23:30 austinmcc wrote: Of course I considered the possibility. I didn't know what to make of ShiaoPi. Everything I wrote about WBG were my true thoughts, regardless of Sandroba's comments. There's absolutely a possibility that my read was wrong (it was). But I decided that between me not loving the marv interaction, never having an explanation on him disbelieving marv's claim, AND Sandroba's actions D2, I was confident in WBG being scum. I didn't go "What is Sandroba doing I will do the opposite." It was an additional factor for me beyond my basic thoughts. We can discuss whether I'm a jubjub, or King in the Jub, postgame. Yes, some/all of you think what I did, if I actually took the course of action I did, was stupid. Fine. Stupid is on another axis. It makes my claim less believable than if you didn't think what I did was stupid, but votes iz fer scumminess and not stupidity. Heck, if you want to talk meta, and how I didn't go check on Sandroba or anything, go look at my blue games. (1) Message DT in Bureaucracy - I decide it's a good plan to look like a paranoid idiot early on in order to not be a threat to anyone and survive until lategame (Kind of a good idea? But definitely altering my play that whole game because of a role) (2) Mason in Can't Believe - Mason chat has bunch of discussion about when to claim, how to claim, etc. etc. Sciberbia and I got caught up in being blue, wasted a lot of time being idiots. Heck, I flipped mason and Sciberbia DIDN'T CLAIM to be my buddy, because we were so paranoid. (3) Vigi in...LVII? I think that's right. Two-shot vigi. Shoot someone N1. N2 what do I do? Hold my shot instead of dropping a lurker or anyone helpful to town, thinking, as I did here, that by using my powers later on I could potentially benefit town. Ended up dead. (4) Veteran in Looney Lynching - THIS ISN'T EVEN A POWER ROLE. I JUST DON'T DIE TO ONE SHOT. And yet i STILL concoct a stupid plan to give away votes at the end of D1, which I thought would make me look townie and draw a shot, but everyone else finds scummy. Then on the day I get lynched, I decide to be all mysterious and save my claim til the last moment hoping someone would figure things out and not even really understanding why some folks were voting for me. 2 times I've been blue I actively played differently than normal because of blue. The vigi game is the same logic as here, "Well, won't get the most of out my power NOW, because I can potentially get MORE out of it if I use it later too." Mason game is partially just us being idiots at some points in time because of blue. If you're going to think I'm scummy because I didn't do homework you would have done, you should at least do the same homework yourself. I appreciate that you don't think I'm an idiot, but here's a different question, do you think I'm an idiot when I'm blue? Only one I crumbed in was mason in Can't Believe. | ||
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After looking for extra crumbs from folks, and after playing mafia-side once and spending the first 2 nights hunting from crumbs, I can tell you it's near impossible to find things like that if someone doesn't use a ridiculously simple crumb (first letter in each line, first letter of each sentence). So many crumbs are like...the third letter of every third word, or the first letter of these posts I made, or stuff that you just can't SEE without checking every last post for every possible crumb, which you don't have time to do. | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:40 Xatalos wrote: Hm. I have to say that austinmcc's defense today has felt townish. But it would mean that Sandroba is Mafia and you+austinmcc are pretty much confirmed town. And I have quite a hard time believing that the remaining Mafia would be something like Sandroba+debears+Lazermonkey/debears instead of austinmcc+ShiaoPi+Lazermonkey/debears. It doesn't mean ShiaoPi is town. Whether I get lynched or get NKed, scum has to keep playing. It's likely that at least 1 remaining scum has outed himself today in how he's voting for me and talking about me/Sandroba. ShiaoPi is a mafia candidate for most folks at this point, and they've had this entire cycle to plan how they want to play things out. IF he's mafia, one of the better things he could do today would be to defend me, knowing that I'll flip town, sandroba will flip scum tomorrow, and maybe he looks a little better for it (being attacked by Sandroba, defending me). | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:46 Xatalos wrote: I'm leaning on austinmcc+ShiaoPi+Lazermonkey making the most sense right now. Although austinmcc has played relatively townish (except some things like not reacting to the supposed redcheck, lack of breadcrumbs, etcetc)... And I don't really see debears as Mafia at this point, but he'd have to be Mafia if austinmcc was town. I didn't "not react" to my watch. I reacted, but in a way that nobody likes. I decided to be sneaky, but don't seem to have done that well, and didn't get anything for it really. And no, I didn't crumb. But I generally haven't crumbed my roles, and I didn't crumb when I found a message in Bureaucracy, and didn't crumb when I shot someone in LVII. | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:05 Lazermonkey wrote: My point there is that from your conduct today, I think that you're probably mafia. You're up at the top of my list now.I'm not sure what your point is. This basically all boils down to that I was suspcious of Sandroba and yet I am voting you but guess what? You cannot both be town and I find you more likely to be scum. My problem with not checking Sandroba is...well, it's partially shown again by your comment here. (1) You say you're going to check dude x (2) Dude x and dude y are lynch candidates the next day. Serious lynch candidate, vote is x or y (3) You vote dude y, without even checking dude x, who you were going to check anyway and were suspicious of (4) "you cannot both be town and I find you more likely to be scum" --> You admitted that you didn't go check up on Sandroba when you voted me. You "find me more likely to be scum," yet you didn't even look at the other candidate. Silliness. Scumminess. | ||
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Sandroba Lazermonkey Is something I'm pretty positive on. Lazermonkey attacks ShiaoPi early on, votes him, pulls back a little from the pressure, but drops a case and a vote on him for D2. Stays on ShiaoPi for most of the game. That's about the only thing that gives me pause, is that early and often he's been calling out someone who is a top-tier candidate for scumbuddy. We also know that scum NKed DYH last night. They wanted to kill him INSTEAD OF KILLING A NEAR-CONFIRMED MASON. The fact that they took out someone who claimed to be out of shots, rather than taking out BH and MrZ's mason chat, tells me that they really, really wanted DYH dead. One of the main things DYH was doing on D2 was trying to get votes for Lazermonkey, trying to get people to look at Lazermonkey. Because that's one of the defining characteristics of what he was doing, and because Sandroba didn't look like a likely lynch candidate when they sent in the N2 kill, I think that adds some weight to Lazermonkey being scum. Kill DYH, get him off Lazermonkey's back. When Xatalos started D3, I didn't like the way he was making his vote or attacking me. I need to look back over that, because Lazermonkey has come off looking a lot worse as D3 drags on. Xatalos, ShiaoPi, debears (although I find him townie despite never saying anything much about him since D1) are all options. Keirathi secretly an option. If we're assuming 4 scum, then only one would be left after VE and the two above, just need to figure out which. | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:14 Xatalos wrote: Hmmm. I can somehow accept that you don't usually crumb, although it's stupid. But being "sneaky" (passive) after getting a redcheck is just too much to believe. I think your way of defending yourself today is townish, I really do... more townish than Sandroba's play today definitely... still, it's not enough to change my vote. I can't bring myself to believe you actually got a redcheck on Sandroba and didn't actively pursue that. So I was playing townish on D1. I'm playing townish today. But you disagree with what I did D2. That's fine. But if I've mainly been playing townish, and Sandroba doesn't seem to be playing townish (and bee tee dubs, is supposedly lazy as scum), then I'm not entirely clear why the vote's on me. If we kill sandroba today, he'll flip red. You guys will almost certainly see me flip tonight, because sandroba would be gone and scum would be taking a risk trying to kill someone without getting watched. They could try and be tricksy with targeting, but even that confirms me somewhat - a less-than-optimal NK shows that they're playing around a watch. You may not believe I have a redcheck, fine. But that entirely overpowers the fact that I was playing townie on D1, townie today, that Sandroba isn't raelly playing townie? When I've got a history of being somewhat retarded with my roles (although less so than this I guess) and Sandroba has a history of being lazy scum? | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:42 sandroba wrote: I'm not being lazy, I just don't see the point in repeating the obvious ten times over. Austin is for sure putting in a good show, but that's to be expected since it's likely he put all his chips in this silly move. I am reading this constantly, I just don't feel like participating in this circular argument. Hi town, it's me, austinmcc, and I'm one of you. You are pretty sure that only one of Sandroba or I is town, and the other is mafia. I am either town and trying to figure the game out today, trying to leave you with my thoughts, trying to pull extra information out of other players OR I'm putting on a show of it. I'm asking for logs, I'm poking at lazermonkey, I'm actually doing things to get reads and push the game forward. But yes, I could be making a show of it. On the other hand, Sandroba, at most, is ... reading. That's nice of him, and it's nice he thinks today has just been a circular argument, but it hasn't. Today you will probably lynch me or lynch Sandroba. The game will almost certainly not end. Sandroba is putting no effort into the longer game. Sandroba is putting no effort into figuring things out. Sandroba is content to sit back and read, not engage, and do nothing. If I'm actually trying to push the game forward today, that fits. I'm town; he's scum; we're playing about how you'd expect. If I'm putting on a show of it...what is he doing? In that world, I'm mafia and he's town. Yet he's not making an effort to do anything beyond see me lynched. He's not trying to figure the game out, he's not engaging in any discussion, he's not asking for logs from our claimed masons. If you think that I'm just putting on a show, then why isn't Sandroba trying to do anything today? Becuase either he gets lynched today or tomorrow. There's no reason for him to put effort into this game, because he's dead either way. I'll flip watcher, you'll lynch him. There's absolutely no scenario where he survives and helps his team, so there's no reason for him to put in any effort. | ||
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You're doing nothing. You're acting like this game has paused for 48 hours, because it's just you and me up for lynch today. Whereas I'm acting like "Oh crap, I might die today, better work hard and make up for my mistake and leave town with everything I can." One of those is a townie reaction. One is the reaction of someone who knows he's dead and nobody will believe anything he says shortly anyway. | ||
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On December 08 2012 03:17 sandroba wrote: Or "I want to fake claim, I better make this work, instead of just suiciding" If that's my thought process then I wouldn't have claimed right at the end of N2. | ||
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On December 08 2012 03:22 Xatalos wrote: Sandroba, you're not making this easy. Even if you say you're not being lazy, what are these posts if not lazy? They don't contribute anything, they don't add any new information to the thread, they do absolutely nothing. If this goes on, I'll start having some serious trouble believing you're town and still playing like this. | ||
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Wanted to cut that quote down if it all pasted visible. My comment added was going to be that there's not a whole lot of "if this goes on" left. "If this goes on," I'll flip watcher and you won't believe he's town at all. | ||
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BH. Partially on your shoulders now. I don't see sandroba changing his vote, nor Lazermonkey. I'll keep answering any questions you have, if you've still got them. But right now I think I've been pretty clear. You don't believe I acted in accordance with my claim, fine. But you also made a case on your mason buddy. I'm not claiming I forgot my check on Sandroba, but it's not like everyone always uses their roles perfectly here. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 07 2012 05:56 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding my reads comming in late, that's what I always do. I feel like talking too much about reads during the night will help scum getting the best possible shot off. Well, that's all good and well. Seems easy to verify whether or not Lazermonkey usually keeps his reads to himself during the night, yes? Name of the game colored to match his alignment. Some posts omitted, EBWOPs, responses to specific questions, but I tried to pull out any posts that were (1) read lists or (2) analysis at night Mad Men - N1 posts - + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 18:54 Lazermonkey wrote: CountDropula is appearing scummy and what not during D1... His first post. Starts off with saying that Zephs behavior could be explained by two ways, both which are to some degree anti-town moves. Yet he ignores that Jingle's reason to FoS him was very weak. Zephird's vote on prphlz was clearly a joke move, and there wasn't a reastic chance for someone to get bandwagoned for that, especially not in such a big game. The most resonable explanation for him voting Jingle was to put pressure on him after putting up such a weak FoS on him. Dropula completely ignored this, which would imply that he is making Zephird look worse than he actually did. Changing your opinion is not necesarly a scum trait. He is testing the waters here. Wants to hear everybody elses thought's on Zephird. He is leaning towards voting him. He does however end up not. Why? In worst case you could simply unvote him, no harm done. Note the timing of the post as well, right when the Zephird shit-storm is at it's peak. Second post. His vote against Jingle was NOT the same thing as his vote against prphlz. Also, I'm not sure what he means by never mentioning his second point but I really can't find anything Zephird didn't answer in his post. Still throwing shit at Zephird for things he is not responsible for. He then does some super back and forth vote jumoing without explaining himslef. 1. 2. just 1 1/2 hour later, without any reason what so ever. 3. Still no reason. 4. When BKE confronts him with this hillarious voteing pattern, he respondes with: Gives some really weak reason for his vote/unvote on Talis/WBG. Says that the evidence for voting Zeph was too slim yet he was able to vote prphlz without any reason what so ever. Dropula, unless you give some really good response I will make sure to get you lynched tomorrow. On August 06 2012 00:39 Lazermonkey wrote: Yes, it absolutely does not make any sense from a town point of view to do that. And still, we don't even know who you are suspicious of. TBH, the only reason I'm not convinced you are scum is the fact that you scum team should've told you to stop this nonesense a long time ago. On August 06 2012 05:37 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay, kinda changed my mind and I'm actually starting to like the kill-grush plan. It's impossible to get a read in him anyway if he is going to play like this. Also, a big bonus is that WBG should be somewhat confirmed town if he flips scum. As for Dropula, his only defense against all of my suspicion was that he was inexperienced and that it was all a mistake. This can be explained in 2 ways. 1. He is inexperienced. 2. He is scum. If he is town he will most likely be left by scum unless he improves his play by an miraculously amount. If he is scum... Then he is scum. For all Vigis, I hope you shot these guys tonight, as lynching them tomorrow will not really generate any discussion if they keep on playing like they've done so far. On August 06 2012 06:13 Lazermonkey wrote: Lolwut. Well, since I want to lynch you I'd much rather prefer you to be scum : ). You aren't helping town at all atm. If the only defense you have is the noob card then you must die. Preferably sooner than later. Unless you do some actual scum hunting, which it doesn't look like you are trying to. If you do not get shot tonight you will have 48 hours to convince me and everyone else why you shouldn't be the one to be lynched * hint * make some analysis * hint *. On August 06 2012 06:17 Lazermonkey wrote: Why? There is a decent chance you will get shot tonight IMO and if you are withholding info there is a chance we will never know what you were going to say. If you are mason/masoned you should 100% claim right now. On August 06 2012 09:13 Lazermonkey wrote: Lurker is a very broad term. A player like Xsebt I would highly recommend not to vigi kill, while his filter is empty enough, he does at least try to make a post and we will be able to judge him later on. However grush or Dropula I'm 100% okay with getting shot. I looked through some of grush older games and he does indeed just do this no matter what alignment he is. The way I see it we have about 5/21~24% chance of him flipping scum. These are not good odds. But arguing that shooting grush tonight because he has a 76% of flipping town is stupid. Why? Because you are then Ignoring the fact that once we get to lategame with him we are in trouble as there is simply no way scum would ever decide to NK grush unless he is confirmed blue. Our chances of getting a proper read on grush not increase as the game goes on. Really. If grush actually wanted to play this game the way it was supposed to, he would've done that a long time ago. Highlights - Makes a case on CountDropula. Discuss vigi shots. Looks through Grush's games and discusses vigi shot on Grush vs. letting game play out. N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 17:49 Lazermonkey wrote: Just woke up. This sucked -.-. Just a quick thought for now, wouldn't it be good to vigi kill Glasse, Zentor or Dropula? Assuming there are vigis left. These guys are obviously in no danger of getting modkilled but on the other hand they play bad all of them. And even though that might not necesarily mean that they are scum because they play bad both as scum and as town, we will need to kill them sooner or later if they are scum. And it doesn't seem like we are going to get any wiser the longer the game goes on if they are playing like this. On August 09 2012 04:00 Lazermonkey wrote: How do you know they are town_ Dropula is probebly a bad shot, as he is most likely town. However I feel both Glasse and Zentor have a decent chance of flipping scum. And IF they are scum, we need to lynch them sooner or later anyways. However, I think the best shot atm would be VE or Hassy as even though one of them flips town it would almost guarante that the other one is scum. Jingle is probebly not scum, partly because I feel it's unlikely that scum would let him have that role, partly because of his activity in the mason logs. Toad feels town, at least for now. So the only real possibility where both VE and Hassy could be town(assuming Jingle is town here) is if scum only got 1 mason and that mason is Toad. But this is a stretch. Highlights - Less posts, but pretty much ALL he posted N2 was concerning vigi shots. Reads, where to shoot, who to kill. N3 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On August 11 2012 17:23 Lazermonkey wrote: If there aren't more than 2 DT then it probebly doesn't matter who you check today. 1 will get RB and 1 will most likely get double stacked. However I guess there are a possibilty that scum tries to luck shot one DT + someone else. In that case we just need to pray that the medic(s) chose the right person to protect. Also, to use Talis WIFOM defense against him, if me, Zeph and Dropula were all scum and you are miller it means that instead of pulling the free misslynch today on you, we decided to fakeclaim DTs in order to buss our scum buddy who wasn't even clse to get lynched? You say it's for massive town cred but why would we do this today and not tomorrow...? Obviously this is by no means a proof of any thing but if Talis is allowed to defend himself with poor logic, so am I. No, I don't think that. Tbh I think it's likely that we have more than 3 millers as well. But I don't think that you are a miller. So long story short please ignore Talis untill D4 lynch. He knows he is about to get lynched and just want to fuck with us as much as possible before he dies. If he for some reason actually flips miller, we can start digging in what he have been saying. On August 12 2012 06:44 Lazermonkey wrote: Well, you called me and CD scum so you obviously aren't speaking the truth. I'm sorry but all your arguments are either not even arguements or based on the most insane WIFOM there is. There are no scum hunting here. Using arguments like yours could make everyone look scum. How you and Heir are able to use the fact that CD used the word ''buss'' as a reason for him to be scum IS BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING. You aren't spending time scum hunting, you are shitting up the thread with shit. I am going to bed in just a moment but if people really feel like there is even a point in arguing against you then I can gladly do that tomorrow. Why am I convinced that I will survive untill tomorrow? Because shooting me is probebly the worst alternative of all remaining members of town(maybe not including some of the lurkers). If scum shoot me tonight, it's a benefit for town as you will be a dead guy when the lynch happends. If your town I am litterly sad IRL because you don't make any sense what so ever. But you claim to be good as town so thus you must be scum by your own logic. Highlights - First quote discusses DT targets, calls for a lynch on talis. N4 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On August 15 2012 03:39 Lazermonkey wrote: BKE: Where are your scum reads? Looking through your filter this is the attempts to scum hunt I can find: You were suspicious of Errandor. This is the only time you've ever done an actual case on someone You were suspicious of Dropula but didn't push his lynch the slightest. You are suspicious of Glasse but doesn't push his lynch the slightest. You are suspicious of Zentor but doesn't push his lynch the slightest. You flip-flop alot about VE, finally deciding to vote him. You don't push him a single bit, however when he is finally lynched you write this: My spider senses are tingeling! Now you sound like VE was obvious scum even though you were very unsure of his alignment before the lynch. It's like your trying to take town cred for the VE lynch. Also, you never answered all of Hopeless case against you, just one bit of it. You have clearly seen the case yet you don't answer to some bits of it. Why is that? If you don't agree with the accusations against you, tell us why. To Vigis: I'm assuming there is an infinite shot vigialante in this game, although I could be wrong. I recomend you to shoot BKE, although I'm okay with shooting Hassy as well. Even if you don't agree with me I strongly recomend you to at least shoot someone. It's essential that we get the number of scum from 3 to 2 as fast as possible so that we can decrease their KP. On August 15 2012 04:26 Lazermonkey wrote: I'm not saying you should write I case on either VE or Dropula as they are dead... My point is that you have only taken 1 strong stance this whole game. Also define ''some'' in ''Ive posted some things on Zentor I'm sure.''. Because you havn't really. This is your posts regarding Zentor:You say that he is suspicious because of his voting pattern.Nothing new.Still nothing new. These 3 posts are the only time you mention Zentor. You aren't contributing anything because the only thing that you have to back up your suspicion is his vote swaping. This have already been mentioned by several people in the thread. While I don't think there is anything scummy with agree about someone being scummy(I think those votes as something scummy as well)however why is it that you havn't tried to push the lynch on Zentor one single bit even though he have been one of your scum reads for several days now? If he was scum wouldn't you want him to be dead? On August 15 2012 09:58 Lazermonkey wrote: So I feel there is a decent chance that I will die today. That is unless both Marv and Toad are town which seems somewhat likely but not certain. TBH if someone of them doesn't get shot tonight I will get suspicious. They are the only vets left alive and are the guys with the most contribution by far in the thread. Other than that, my reads are somewhat unchanged. BKE is scum and Hope is probebly town. Highlights - Actively engages BKE, questioning him. Drops a few reads at the end, thinking he'll die (he does) Overall Conclusion: Lazermonkey was town this game, never ONCE stayed quiet at night and posted a short list of reads late. He actively discussed vigi targets multiple nights, discussed DT targets another, gave reads/made cases. Completely different from his behavior here. Newbie Mini XX - N1 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2012 19:06 Lazermonkey wrote: Wow, such a good D1. Didn't really expect him to be scum but everything went better than expected! I'm not too keen on all this night discussion. A question you should probebly ask yourself when posting in the middle of the night ''Does it actually help town if I post right now, or can I just as well wait untill 1 minute before deadline to post''. So, posting your reads right now is not a good idea as it will only help scum to find an optimal target. Exception would be Evul or Hapa as these guys are as confirmed townies as you can possibly get without actually flipping. Asking questions etc. tho is 100% fine imo. As for the medic, healing either Evul or Hapa is fine for me. On July 07 2012 19:33 Lazermonkey wrote: Release, I know from our last game that making reads isn't your strenght as town, if that is what you are. You were wrong about almost every read in that game but still you helped town by being the most active person in the game + good at pressuring people. You were already wrong about Hope. I have(I think) given answers to all your points of suspicion on me. I can understand that you might not be convinced by those answers but in that case post why. I have nothing to hide as I am town, so I should be able to give a good answer every question you ask. Also Release, as of now your two main points of suspicion on me(at least if I'm reading your filter) is that my first post is bad and the sex toy thingie. As for the first post, I don't agree with you and you know that. I can't seem to convince you even tho a fake DT claim would have caused us the game if it hadn't been for some serious luck on our part. Regarding the sex toys, I have never said that it was outright scummy. You are either lying here or didn't read good enough. My concerns here was that discussing sex toys is just way worse than discussing blues/policy and I STRONGLY stand by this still. Tbh can you please give me some examples of the good effects of the sex toy discussion? Because I can't really find any. On July 07 2012 19:35 Lazermonkey wrote: Yo Ken_Man. What is your stance on me as of now? You thought I was the scummiest person in the game before the lynch, do stand by that? You probebly shouldn't say it right now but include it in the night post : ). On July 08 2012 09:59 Lazermonkey wrote: Take a look at the vote count first: The 2 things we can conclude out of this is that. 1.) It was a close voting 2.)We lynched a mafia. Combine this with the fact that I know 100% that I am VT. Let's just consider PURE LOGIC now, and completely ignore reads. In such a close voting I'd say it's very unlikely that the two remaining scum is among those who voted for me. There is obviously still a chance that Mackin and Khorrus were scum because that they were simply not pressent at the time of the lynch. So based only on logic I think it's safe to say that the remaining 2 scum is among:Release, JingleHell, JieXian, The_Zen_Man, Khorrus(replacement) and Mackin. So, if you belive that I am townie, then you should by all means also belive that this is true. Actually I've chanced my mind on Jingle. Why is that? Well his play before the lynch didn't look like scum play at all to me. Scum does know who the other scum is and also who are the townies. This to me seems very townie. He seems very convinced that I am townie. I guess you could explain this from a scum point of view by saying he that he wanted to trade. However, I don't think this is the best idea. In the best case scenario They would've gone 1vs3(assuming no medic blocks). This wouldv'e left scum in a 2 vs 7 situation. Not super good odds by any means This one is written just a few minutes before deadline. Why would scum write this? If he would've been scum he would already know that Hope would flip red and this post would make him look really bad. His last post before the flip. Once again, explain this post from a scum point of view. It doesn't make any sense at all. I've actually flipped my opinion completely on Jingle. Yes, he have not been contributing at all from a town perspective. In fact he did the opposite. He pushed me, didn't post any reads before he absolutely forced to by me. He is shitting up the thread and doesn't back up his suspiciouns by much more than OMGUS. But it doesn't make sense at all for him to post such post. He could simply ignore the matter and not post anything, or maybe even better: post soft suspicion on Hope. If Jingle is scum, he is possibly the worst scum ever. I find it way more likely that he is semi bad townie rather than super duper bad scum. A player that have been almost forgotten, but in my eyes looks by far the most suspicious after this lynch is The_Zen_Man! I have already been critizising Zen_Man earlier in the game. He ignored everything the first 10 and instead posted a semi long post on Mackin. Mackin had been lurking, and his only post at that point wasn't very good. Zen took a really easy stance here, trying to push the lurker. He also had some strange comments on how scum plays. If you look at mine/his filter these things are easy to look up. However, they are hardly the reason for me saying that Zen is BY FAR my strongest scum read atm. Personally I don't think you should look to much into Meta, especially if you have been misslynched D1 last game. But w/e. I don't really care too much about this. Voting Hope. Note the tone. He IS mafia. Then he posts this case against me.I will not comment the case as a whole, Hapa has already done that. I can comment on it as well tomorrow if you would really like that Zen. However, note the last part. He finds us both equally scummy. This must mean that I am scum as well judging by your last post. He says that because we are equally scummy he strugles to chose who to vote. This is the money part. He knows Hope is in shitloads of trouble and can if possible always buss him. At the same time, if the vote would be going my way, he can vote me. The timing is the key part of this. At the point where he threw down the vote it was 4-2 in favour of me getting lynched. Essentially 5-3 as me and Hapa were going to vote each other no matter what. Things were looking reeeal good for Hope at this point. Also, why would he change his vote if he is sure that hope is mafia? While Zen_Man havn't really contributed to town in alot of ways, his acting during the lynch is what makes him look SUPER SUSPICIOUS rather than suspicious. Highlights - Notes in multiple posts that he doesn't like sharing thoughts at night, prefers people wait until the deadline. That said, discusses medic targets, responds to a case against him, solicits thoughts from Zen_Man, who he posts a right-before-day case on. No list of reads though, just a big case on Zen_Man. N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On July 10 2012 22:54 Lazermonkey wrote: Sorry guys, but I'm kinda bussy/lazy atm. However, as everyone who isn't blue have basically been given a freepass to D4. I will post alot of shit from tomorrow night and foreward tho. As for Evul and Jiexian. In case you guys didn't get it, pick a name from here: Me Hapa Mackin Bass Harry And investigate him. Do not tell who you've investigate untill the day tho. Highlights - Discuss medic targets. Only one post. No list of reads. N3 Posts - Looks like they'd found the final mafia, not much of anything to post. Overall Conclusion: Did emphasize N1 that he doesn't like night posting. Did some medic directing. Made a case on Zen_Man after soliciting comments from him, but posted 1 minute before deadline. No list posts of reads. Supports his distate for night chatter more than Mad Men, but still lacks the list o' reads each night. Newbie Mini XVI - (as DT) N1 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On June 11 2012 08:06 Lazermonkey wrote: Owgod. Don't know what to say. Will be going to bed now. NO HIGHLIGHTS N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2012 07:59 Lazermonkey wrote: Important shit here. Please read Everyone, I am the detective! So my first check was on Vivax. Release seemed to think that a check on anyone other than grush or ha236 was a bad check. I don't agree with this at all. First off, this is a noob game and their play could be explained by them being inexperienced. Or rather grush, because I never really had a scum read on Ha236 anyway. Also, in case that were to show town I would either need to claim in order to save one of the weaker townies which means no more checks for me or I had to defend them while they were acting suspicious without me claiming. I would either risk a lynch of them anyway or even a lynch on myself for defending a suspicious person and swaping my read super hard(said I was willing to lynch grush D1, Wants to stop the lynch on him D2...) My reason Vivax for this was because of his play. He didn't apear clearly scummy with his ''nice'' posts. But still, his unwillingness to take a stance anywhere. This wasn't his first game so he should know the basics of town play. I didn't find anything that pointed in that direction.Vivax showed as scum! Regarding the second scum, I am 99,9% sure this is Kthez. He have faked a DT claim at this point. I'm not even sure you need any more evidence than this. He even claimed me to be town. What townie would do such a thing? My guess is that Kthez was feeling the hard pressure against him and when he saw grush claim DT, he took the opportunity as he felt most people would rather belive him than grush in a 1vs1. This would lead into a 2-1 where Vivax could've gotten lots of town cred by bussing him. If Kthez is a townie, he is the worst one ever. Btw, I decided to check Kthez this night. I don't have a way to 100% confirm myself as detective so you will not know if my claim here is true or not. But you can be sure that either me or Vivax is scum here. I will not really push the case vs Vivax here either. In case I die tonight, you will all know I spoke the truth. If I survive, I will be able to push the case against him for 48 hours. I recomend you guys to take a very close look at their filters as well as mine and try to think you is the most likely scum at this point. Essentially if I survive the night, D3 will come down to a lynch on me vs a lynch on Vivax/Kthez. If I die, it's insta GG, town wins! When writing this, I feel I probebly could've posted this way earlier. My head was just sooo full of fuck with two guys claiming DT when it was obvious not only that both of them were lying but also that one of them HAD to be town. Highlights - Claims DT with red check 1 minute before deadline. Gets NKed. Overall Conclusion: No real night posts at all this game except claim, died early. Last minute post fits the pattern, but again, it's not a list of reads. Here, that's for a specific reason, he was posting his redcheck. Surprisingly Normal Mini XI - N1 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On April 29 2012 15:22 Lazermonkey wrote: Wow, such a nice day-1 kill! I wasn't at home last night but I followed the drama from my phone : P I think this would somewhat clear AcecAnoka from being mafia more or less, no? Mafia could've easily tried to spread the votes among him and Veriat to avoid lynching Verait. Highlights - One post. Offhand comment that someone maybe not mafia because of vote. No reads on gameplay, no list. N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On May 03 2012 04:05 Lazermonkey wrote: I've been bussy today, so my contribution have lacked quite alot. I hope it doesn't really matter tho since it's night anyway! Reading through the thread atm. On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay so here we go! I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that: So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum. Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1. While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler + However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me... This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat. Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%. The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ). I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others! Highlights - Just noting for convenience, scattered amongst his play this game (as mafia), lots of apologies for missed time. Not much night posting. No list, although his last post of N2 works through 4 or 5 players based on voting and discusses alignment. N3 Posts - + Show Spoiler + On May 06 2012 00:45 Lazermonkey wrote: I'm not sure I will be able to post anything before daypost :S. But I will try to get my thoughts out as soon I can. On May 06 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote: So much in this post is strange... You first think of him as a good townie but you change your mind. Your arguments for this seems to be kind of weak. You think the way he left the game was strange, but that's just to discuss WIFOM at insane levels. And then some random things about advanced logic. Yes, Golden/SexDoll were scummy at the time but not for the reasons you said. It might be because you just don't understand what he meant but frankly, what was it that you didn't understand with this? And you once again take a super defensive stance right of the bat. Finally we have the crazy post: ... In what way? Your jumping on the bandwagon and change your opinion on who is most likely scum 3 times in 24 hours. You got super defensive when I just started to pressure you. If he would've flipped scum I still would've thought you were town as I have a hard time to belive that you bussed both of your teammates. All this in just a couple of hours. The_Zen_Man could very well be playing a very tricky game here. He is by far my strongest scumread atm. Highlights - Still no lists. More apologies for missed time/saying he was going to miss time. Overall Conclusion: Lazermonkey, as mafia, doesn't post much at night. He apologizes for his lack of contribution, notes a lack of time or something else. All reads were based off votes, and although no lists made of reads on everyone, he has one post discussing 4-5 alignments, the closest thing he's had to a list in all these games. Grand takeaway (1) I'm invested in hunting scum (2) Lazermonkey is scum Although he says his night posting this game is his norm, it's not (there's one more game from earlier, but I'd seen enough after 4). He NEVER makes a list of night reads in any other game. The closest he comes to doing so was in a scum game. While he often makes a last minute post, in one game it was a DT claim with a red check, in another game it was a case. He openly discusses vigi and medic targets as town, EXACTLY the sort of targetting information he claims not to want to give away. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 06:17 debears wrote: Also, I would like this question answered. Why would scum choose to trade off sandroba (if town), for austin (if scum) out of all the townies?????????????? THIS IS ANOTHER PARTICULARLY GOOD POINT. Not 100%, because if ShiaoPi is scum he probably can't claim a redcheck without getting lynched to confirm. But the other or one of the other scum could make the claim instead of me. For realsies, I'm town. BH and MrZ, it's on you guys at this point to block a potential last-minute scum switch. I don't foresee it happening, because it absolutely gives up the remaining member, but who knows. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
In terms of "hint"s, there's still a possibility that MrZ and BH's mason PMs noting the other guys are town and Keirathi/WBG's PMs not doing so is a hint that Keirathi is not town. Right now, I don't like that train of thought anymore. I'm quite confident in Lazermonkey at this point, and Keirathi isn't at the top of my list for scum after Sandroba and Lazermonkey (ShiaoPi is, for now, he said still waffling somewhat on ShiaoPi, but pretty confident that ShiaoPi was sent to hard defend me as a way to look better after nearly the entire game has been calling him scum for a while, however, save his lynch until after Lazermonkey). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HcgBJ.jpg) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 06:48 debears wrote: actually i'm strongly considering shiaopi I'm way more certain he's scum over which of sandro/austin is we get a scum lynch and then put of mylo for two more lynches (right?) We end up back in the same situation. All scum has to do from now on is send sandro to do the kills. Even if I see anything, it's sandro again, and not like that's going to change the information we have. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 06:51 debears wrote: Guys what do you think of that snap reaction by austin? Is that mafia logic or watcher logic????? It makes sense from both. In the same vein, you had me paranoid for a moment that this was a mafia attempt to shift things onto ShiaoPi as a mislynch, and avoid the 1 for 1 today, and waste town's time tomorrow because Sandroba would be super apparent as mafia. I don't think that's what is happening, I much prefer scum ShiaoPi to scum you. But any action can be WIFOMed like that. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'm putting work into this cycle, he's not I'm treating this like the game isn't over/on pause, he's not He has a history of being lazyscum I have a history of not crumbing I have a history of being a tard concerning blue roles I have found you Lazermonkey, with some decent analysis hopefully I drew BH a picture | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 07:17 debears wrote: Lol. You know what I am paranoid about. You and sandro both being scum o.O It would be an epic strategy on your guys' part if you are both scum It would, but that ain't whassup. If nothing else: austinmcc thinks critically, looks townie on D1 austinmcc looks scummy on D2 austinmcc thinks critically, looks townie on D3 One of these things is not like the other, and coincides with the time I was trying to be sneaky. If nothing else, the fact that the rest of the game I've looked like I should ought to give you some comfort that I'm not actually scum. If I'm scum, I just decided to be scummy one day instead of continue doing whatever I do. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 07:37 Blazinghand wrote: ##unvote austinmcc ##vote shiaopi On December 08 2012 06:46 austinmcc wrote: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH YOU NOW | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 07:40 Keirathi wrote: Don't be dumb. We don't gain anything by voting ShiaoPi today, and then we have to go through this discussion again tomorrow. If nothing else, this prevents a last minute switch. I don't know why they'd do that, but this gives a cushion stopping a one-man last minute change. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fZWB7.jpg) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 08:07 Xatalos wrote: Yeah...this seems to be a recurring theme.I still don't get your Day 2 play I'm pretty happy with ShiaoPi/Lazermonkey, although we've got time to discuss and figger this out. I'm going to be mostly inactive tonight, because I've put in too much time on this today, have to try and not get mislynched in another game, and have most of tomorrow full. I'll try and poke around some filters from people that I've been considered town but haven't looked at much (just debears) and then the remaining maybes (Xatalos and Keirathi). I don't foresee any of those people being scum, or at the very least they probably won't look scummy enough compared to ShiaoPi/Lazermonkey. Still in the back of my head is a VE-style SK who has been saving shots, or something like that, but nothing to be done there except solve that once we finish off scum. For anyone actually interested in diving into ShiaoPi beyond this game, I think WBG had some good comments on him (someone did) in the obs for a game within LVI, LVII, and Liquid City. I think the comments were in LVII (he was blue) and Liquid City (I think he ended up scum? I quit following). Whatever game he was scum in, there was a nice comparison of how he wasn't just INACTIVE that game, but just wasn't even interacting with thread at all. At least that's what I remember, gonna try and get around to finding that tonight. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 08:12 Keirathi wrote: YES IT IS. I don't care.It's fucking dumb that you used the defense "I've been playing townie so I must be town" for yourself, but you said that I had been playing townie and STILL think I have a chance to be scum. I didn't figure out exactly what I wanted to say with that until the end of the day though. The townie stuff from me is in part...I played townie D1 and D3. I didn't D2. I said I was trying to do this thing D2. You may not believe it's a good idea, my plan may have been retarded, but there's a very peculiar shift in my play during the time I say I'm doing something different. That's the more full explanation. It's not just play townie b/c townie. I should have been playing very townie except the time I was retarded. You've been consistently townie....therefore POSSIBLE SCUM. MWAHAHAHAHA. Also, I said I didn't think you were. But of course there's a CHANCE. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 08:42 Blazinghand wrote: really though shiaopi was setting up to look good after an austinmcc flip by "opposing" it and doing nothing to stop it. plus all the other reasons he's scum. he's so scum. Are you okay with ShiaoPi/Lazermonkey? Or do you think someone else be red. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He already felt wonky. When some of the wonkiness, the night posting, was asked about, he said that was his usual style. It's not. For realsies (I say for the 90th time today). It's completely out of character with his night posting, and closest to the posting from a game in which he was mafia. You know, the guys we want to lynch. I've yet to see anything from him recently that makes me think he's town, and the way he dropped his vote still STINKS to me. Two candidates, I'm voting you, but nope...haven't gone back to look at the other guy despite saying I would. Then a lot of arguing about that decision. Blah blah blah. I think I've posted enough, you guys have my thoughts if I die (I probably can't post much more/at all before deadline). Lazermonkey ShiaoPi are most likely. Xatalos was scaring me early in the day, but that faded away. He's worth another look though. debears is the weird outlier who will turn out to be SK or something and rub it in our faces. But he's never felt like he fits the scumteam. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You haven't been around since lynch. You have anything to say? Anything in your defense? Updated reads in light of sandroba being mafia? Masonfolk, or at least keirathi, would.be good to get some thoughts down. Bh and mrz have mason chat, if one dies the survivor.can post 2 people of info. But without that luxury, any changes in reads or anything keirathi? | ||
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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I seem to have been more than a bit jubby this game. For that, I apologize. It'll probably happen again. I'm glad at least that we could turn things around and work things out. <3 all for believing me. I can see ways in which, had things played out differently, we would have had some paranoia or some bad calls - vigi shot on a townie, especially on a miller mason, would have been interesting. The miller masons as a whole could just throw a wrench into things, especially when a miller flip's PM says his partner is town, and his town partner's PM says the miller was town. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 09 2012 07:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Heroic shot DYH. Armed.with flip info I was about to look real town. ^ sexy N1 shot. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Our first day was kind of low activity. We had lots of people half lurking. I expect BH to make a half-baked case or two and throw them around to stir things up, and I don't care if the case was on his mason partner. MrZ was never in ANY danger of getting lynched, so why does it matter? If it were others who had made a case on x and then claimed mason partners with x, I'd be more worried. But I actually didn't find it that weird and I certainly don't think it was playing against wincon. Town just has to lynch scum. There shouldn't be any kind of restriction on who you build cases on. Take with a grain of salt, given that I tried to pump up the town cred of someone I knew was scum...but still. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 11 2012 01:01 marvellosity wrote: the issue is that it causes confusion where there doesn't need to be confusion i was of the mind for a while that town would have to flip BH for how the play went down. Obviously that went away but basically town needlessly complicating stuff for town = not good, is the basic idea. On December 11 2012 01:02 Blazinghand wrote: Austinmcc I agree that some of the rage is a bit misdirected, but the case against MrZ did have the effect of weakening my Mason claim a bit, even if perhaps it shouldn't have. As I was re-examining my notes after posting the case initially I remembered he was my mason partner and realized I couldn't push him since we might have to claim at some point and also he might actually get lynched. It certainly wasn't playing against wincon, especially given how it was retracted, but it meant there was a bit of hesitance about believing the mason claim. I imagine if the claim order were reversed (MrZ and me claimed and Kei/WBG counterclaimed) MrZ would have been lynched instead of WBG. That being said, MrZ and I did a good job of defending each other throughout this game and the case was retracted immediately so it wasn't a huge issue. E: but yeah basically what marv said. there's plenty of people to write questionable meta cases against D1, it's unnecessarily confusing to do it against your mason partner, so barring weird circumstances as a mason you should try to avoid attacking your partner. I guess I just didnt' feel confused. I'm not advocating it, but ... the mason claim was so instantaneous, so genuine, and backed up with logs the minute they were requested. There was no way you guys weren't masons. While the case on MrZ didn't fit that, oh well...it wasn't a big enough deal to worry about imo, and I was sitting there suspecting EVERYONE. | ||
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