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On December 09 2012 07:29 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 07:26 Promethelax wrote:On December 09 2012 07:25 Keirathi wrote:On December 09 2012 07:17 phagga wrote:On December 08 2012 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Convincing stuff austin :D
##Unvote
##Vote: Phagga
##Travel To: Prehistory I know Oats is supposed to vote in the Voting thread, but he left his vote here. Can't you make an exception for him if he fails to vote in the voting thread in time? Ugh I just don't think scum would have made this post either. By pointing out the Oats vote, phagga is getting himself lynched... really dude? Feels to me like a classic self vote as false town tell. Like seriously that post convinced me that switching my vote was worth my time. How often do scum self-vote themselves? I can't think of any game I've seen it besides GSL 3 when Marv hammered himself in an instant-lynch scenario. And I've seen multiple townies do it (including myself).
1.) The self-vote himself is not alignement-indicative.
2.) I honestly just wanted to avoid that one of the confirmed townies gets modkilled. I did not care that he is voting me. Important is that he is a safe value for parties, and therefore it is important that he stays in the game. Also, the modkill would have been because of an oversight of him.
Also Prom, GK voted himself in this very game, in case you forgot.
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I'm still wary of GK. Can't understand why you guys are so convinced he is town. His shot on Draz could be made as either scum or town (as scum you have a nice excuse to have shot a townie with the coinflip that Draz often is). His attacks on me don't seem town motivated. but I guess I have brabbled about that enough.
If not GK, then austin, just by principle of exclusion.
good luck town, I'm sorry I let you guys down.
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GG!
Thanks for hosting Grey! It was awesome, even though I got a bit worn out towards the end.
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On December 13 2012 09:28 Promethelax wrote:
ha! I feel pretty accomplished about this game. Not only did I figure out people's role names through detective work I also realized that Toad was revived by the game mechanics and I found scum more than once.
Our figuring shit out did make it hard to care about. Can't wait to see the whole set up.
And you lynched me for saving a confirmed town player from being modkilled. Well done!  <3
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On December 13 2012 10:00 Risen wrote:
Also my play day 1 was not intentionally bad. I just tried to come up with a plan that benefited scum but looked like it benefited town. You guys saw through it easily.
Thank you for hosting grey and mt, I personally loved the game.
My impression at the time was that the way you backed off from your plan made you look rather townie.
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I feel unsure if I played my role right. In hindsight, it might have been better to try to claim D1 and hope town believes me. Abilities like turducken (who deal 10% of Targets A hitpoints to target B) would have given me a permanent damage dealer for the rest of the game if I used it with me as Target A. Of course, scum could have messed with me when they knew it. Not sure what would have been the best course of action.
On December 13 2012 10:37 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 10:29 Adam4167 wrote:On December 13 2012 10:20 Risen wrote:
I would have been on an event team if die hadn't fucked up lol, but afaik getting onto an event team is super detrimental as scum following successful parties. It's a free dt check with no benefit I can see :S
I just want to know wtf the other members were thinking (beyond toad).
Sand afk killed, VE mod kill was horrible, sab/risk claimed scum in thread, and poor Austin replaced into a super scummy filter only to slip up bc his claim didn't match up (but he managed to get phagga lynched through reasons SUPER UNKNOWN to me lol) That phagga lynch really chapped my ass. I saw it coming, knew it was stupid and wrong, posted as much, went to bed with Austin being the leading votegetter by a mile, wake up and phagga is dead. Even worse that literally everyone involved was town, except austin. Yeah I'm still pretty pissed at myself for that. Part of me thought that scum would have all but given up by that time in the game. On the lynch day, Austin was trying to get Phagga lynched, and Phagga wasn't too active. Made me ignore a lot of really townie things in his filter (like not understanding that SnB was claiming scum when he voted to go to AD 1999)
After austins case 5 people voted me immediatly (in thread, Oats forgot it in the voting thread), that broke my spirit. I wrote that I would try to come up with some more facts, and I did indeed go through Adams and austins filter, but I was just tired and worn out to actually come up with an original case on austin. Plus the fact that some bias versus me was obvious, hence my reduced activity. After proms vote on me I was thinking "fuck it", stood up and walked away from the comp. I returned 5 minutes before deadline for a short last post.
However, you are aware that your argument regarding "phagga has not done any scumhunting all game" quickly got down to "phagga has not done anything since D2" and then to "phagga has not done anyhting this cycle". That alone should have told you that you were probably a bit biased at that point. 
Also, regarding my general play: I still struggle to voice my thoughts properly. It's not that I just straight up forgot that I had CJ marked as scum, I actually thought about it a lot, and with time just came to the conclusion that he might be town. However, I never wrote that, hence the confusion. Trust me, stuff like that happens IRL too, my wife can tell you tales...
Regarding Risens play: In hindsight I think it was very unlucky for scum that his alignement check on Acro/Hope worked out. Would he have hit two townies, he might have pushed two misslynches (one mafia more in the endgame barring nightkills, probably one town less), and more mafia players would have been around longer to deal damage. The misslynches would not have been until around N7, so he still would have gotten away as townie for a long time. And with all the shenanigans around Hapas host PMs he might have even be able to lie his way out of the misslynches? Who knows, but since he never got to be in the party and the party that he was supposed to be in failed anyway, it seems mafia could not benefit nearly as much from the fake claim as possible.
Regarding z-boson, I'd like to apologize in public for my reaction to him. I still think the way he left the game was... not so cool, but my harsh reaction was uncalled for. And of course I'll still play games with him. We already PMed, so we're good I think.
Somehow I was much more emotionally invested in this game than in earlier ones. I think I never had this outbreaks the same way as in this game. I hope you guys did not take offense.
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On December 14 2012 07:52 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 07:43 strongandbig wrote:
But yeah, having two replacements didn't help either, since the game was so active it was pretty much impossible to replace into competently austin replaced in amazingly well. He must have put in a TON of effort to look so good. Especially when people were about ready to lynch Zbo. Getting phagga lynched over himself was a pretty crazy feat... and with 20/20 hindsight he probably saved my ass. If I had been there I would have yelled and screamed and raged at everybody to stop being idiots, but I have to admit that he probably saved me. Particularly getting the last 2 votes or so for saving a confirmed townie from a modkill. /facepalm. Nobody would have found TC ever after that totally wild claim and I am not sure I could have actually gotten phagga lynched over myself. It would definitely have been a lot harder. VE, however, replaced in after 1 cycle and while the thread was moving really fast, he should have been able to keep up better than he did. If he hadn't gotten modkilled he would almost certainly have gotten either shot or lynched.
I would never, ever have suggested to lynch you. No idea what I would have done if I survived for another cycle, but it never crossed my mind to try to put the lynch on you as long as there is scum out there.
I assume I would have just given up when people would have started to pile votes on me. Or tunnel GK some more. Yeah, probably that one.
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On December 14 2012 10:29 Risen wrote:
Lol. Yes, that's entirely likely (sarcasm). At least in my example I gave scum benefit of the doubt in a lot of things, but was realistic and hey maybe scum was that good. You just gave scum a win whenever possible and assumed horrible town play.
This game town got a win whenever possible (well almost) and scum played horrible.
In my example I gave scum a benefit, but didn't go overboard. In yours you just said fuck it scum gets everything they could dream of. I should have been more clear. In what way does this game play out where scum doesn't have to massively outplay town to win? How does anyone on the scum team know who the healers are, who the roleblockers are, who the trackers are? How does scum even know these roles exist? Why does any townie nameclaim? Why don't the townies being lynched nameclaim and save themselves since scum can't counterclaim without trading themselves 1 for 1? Sure you'll get the fakeclaims Grey has set up for scum in return, but no one is going to counterclaim you if you're a main character. How do you counterclaim someone like Chrono, Marle, Lucca, Frog, or Robo? What do we have to punish those name claims? 250 damage a night? Sweet.
10 cycles go by and scum has managed to get a townie killed or lynched every cycle. Is that really plausible? Even the hosts have said they didn't want people dying from KP until cycle 3 or 4, but we'll say it happened that way because of town lynching themselves. I think I'm being generous to scum when I say only 8 members of town are alive at the end and that includes Crono because once he claims there's no way he's dying and even if he does he can be resurrected. Only 5 scum members live to Lavos spawn in my new scenario. Only losing 2 scum all the way until the end of the game out of 7 members? Must be an auto-win. Just kidding.
Town has 17 members. You managed to kill 6, 5 nightkills (although one was by town) and one misslynch. Imagine your fake-check works out as planed and town misslynches two times more. Imagine you coordinate night attacks a bit better and you get 7 nightkills, including a healer. Now town is already down to 7 members, Scum has 1 or 2 more players alive at the end, and that is not even considering getting someone on a successfull party for even more chaos in town.
Seriously, a decent playing scum team would have been able to force 1 to 2 misslynches more, and might have gotten 2 townkills more. Sure, with 7 players vs 4 scum it still would have been hard, but saying that you are "generous to scum when I say only 8 members of town are alive" is a joke.
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EPT
