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On November 07 2012 10:37 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's weird that he's not panicking?
I refuse to acknowledge any of your points as I've been over all of them before.
The only new thing you said was that you claim I lied in one of my posts, yet instead of convincing people, you try to send me on a wild goose hunt.
@ Clarity
Because I think there is a slight possibility for you to be a bad and stubborn VT. If you were blue with the same information that I have, you would better understand my position 
After all, all this game is about is information ^^
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Just because you've consistently shown to not read my posts or outright ignore them: if this is about why I asked for blue flavor, I already answered that.
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Passed out after getting home from work, sorry. Catching up. I've read up to current, but there's posts I want to take another look at.
Djo claiming JK is super risky, but I believe the claim. This is why I don't doubt it:
It's possible that there IS no jailkeeper this game, because it's not an fixed setup. He could, theoretically, be a lucky scum who took a big risk and hoped to pick a role nobody could counterclaim. But the risk is big enough that I'm willing to believe that if Djo were scum, he wouldn't make this move. There's only 3 possible power roles, and it's likely that 2 of those are in play. I believe Djo.
On November 07 2012 09:28 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 08:59 da0ud wrote:
I personally think that if we had confirmed all the VTs it would only have made sense for scum to kill them at night and not the blue. They want to keep uncertainty and don't want to be outnumbered by VTs.
I think this is as well the reason Debears got killed cause he is the one who got the most genuine reaction to CC claim.
Like I stated earlier in response to sylver. If it was possible to 100% no doubt whatsoever confirm every VT in the game the game would be over. Unless there are more than 2 blue players, all the VTs would have to do is vote out a non-vt every day. Even if they mislynch the blue players twice in a row, they would still be 3 VT vs 2 scum at the beginning of D3. The fact remains, there's no way to confirm all the VTs because anyone(blue or scum) could just lie and say that they are VT. Stop discussing it please, it leads nowhere.
Agreed. The only reason I think it would be helpful for scum is that scum might be more willing, or more importantly, quicker to lie than blues (though, blues fake claiming VT on day 1 like this is pretty much the required move, tbh) about being VT. I really think that mass claim VT on day 1 isn't a guaranteed help (no way of preventing scum from lying) and I thought that the risk of outing our blues but having undue faith in a scum was too dangerous. Thus, I didn't want to mass claim D1.
I'm done talking about why I didn't want a mass VT claim day 1. Everything I think about it is now on record.
I'm still not sure why Djo wanted to out blues (there's probably only 1 more), especially since as a Jailkeeper, he can't protect them without making them useless (though I guess they'd still be confirmed town.)
This excerpt particularly makes no sense:
Because you gave strong hints that you are blue, which is something that I cannot believe, being blue myself.
Obzy's continues acting really apologetic. He also backed off of me after minimal counterpressure. The wishywashyness certainly isn't helping.
Clarity ... deserves his own post to address him.
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I ask because: (And if I'm repeating myself, fuck it, I may have said this before in here or to friends irl or to coaches in PMs or to my cat or whatever fuck it I can't keep track of all this shit) (And this is directed at everybody, not necessarily just Clarity)
I know I'm not scum. My defense to Clarity's argument, if I am going to be completely honest, comes to this:
I lack motivation to play this game. I wanted to play a game so that I wouldn't feel guilty /obsing other mafia games, as over the past month or so, I've realized this subforum existed and started actively reading. My posts lack content and commitment and conviction and are sheepy because I don't want to put in the time to post, I just want to read and have the game develop and at the end of it be able to say "see look I played too". Sheeping is basically like reading - I get to see what other people think, judge my own reaction to it, look at other peoples' reactions, and go with what feels right. I've been asked to write cases or do research or find scumreads or etcs off and on all game, and pretty much my response has been to try, but suck at it, then get discouraged and not actually think my reads are good and then stop.
So why bother still playing if I don't really care? I'd feel bad if my team, town, lost because of my apathy. That's really about it.
If you are also town, Clarity, then push one of those two people enough that they are more appealing than voting you. If you aren't town, then whatever, my vote will stay on you, cool. That's fine too. I'm not going to try to post the rest of my thoughts on you like I intended to this afternoon; I got too frustrated and got no irl work done and this game, even though it's probably the most important thing I've done in the four? days that we've played it, really shouldn't be comparing to IRL.
To everyone else- if you think that being bad is worth a vote, then by all means, I think you should vote me.
But if you want to win the damn game and hit mafia, then wasting time on me is pointless.
I'll answer questions if people have any but I think I'm fucking done reading filters and trying to appease people by making shitty cases that suck and so on and so forth. My apologies ^^ I just want to /obs games in the future lol, I don't intend to play again due to the time commitment, but it's been a learning experience and I'm glad I did it.
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On November 07 2012 11:01 Clarity_nl wrote:
Just because you've consistently shown to not read my posts or outright ignore them: if this is about why I asked for blue flavor, I already answered that.
I'll write my final case against you when I can...
I don't want to discuss with you anymore, I've definitively taken my decision for today and I'm not going to move from it.
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Ugh. This is making less sense as I read through Clarity's filter. The argument with Djo, the big case on Obzy. I don't understand anymore. I need more time to put together something coherent. I even almost called him out on saying "oh just lynch the two inactives" which makes exactly ZERO sense right now, before reading the rest of that same post.
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Whoa, obzy's defense is... awkwarrrrrrrd.
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Well in that case I'm going to bed since I have no clue how to interpret Obzy's post, let alone respond to it.
Unless Rad is still around and has a question. I'll wait 10 minutes.
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I'm here clarity. Watching my country's election, refreshing this page ^^ I have no questions for you. Sleep good sir ^^
@obzy
I feel for you man <3 Unless you're scum, then FU for toying with my emotions.
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@ Obzy
It's ok this game is hard. It requires a great investment. I feel that your post is honest and sincere.
If you think you can trust me, please sheep my vote on Clarity
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Night all. I'll be your punching bag tomorrow as well. Please ask yourselves how I'm still in one piece after 52 hours of interrogation.
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Djo, what exactly, to be clear, are you calling out as Clarity's lie?
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On November 07 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote:@ ObzyIt's ok this game is hard. It requires a great investment. I feel that your post is honest and sincere. If you think you can trust me, please sheep my vote on Clarity
Djo - I'm 100% certain that you are town, I am not 100% sure you're right on Clarity. But for now, he's where my vote sits 
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On November 07 2012 11:28 sylverfyre wrote:
Djo, what exactly, to be clear, are you calling out as Clarity's lie?
Please wait for my final case for your answer. Anyway I cannot call him a liar if he does not claim blue.
If he is blue then he has lied before and I'm not going to say where before he claims. This is a battle of information between the scumteam and me right now. Please trust me when I am saying that I have more information at my disposal than him because I'm truly the jailkeeper. He would be able to show me his contradiction if we were sharing the same amount of info ^^
But, most importantly, please analyze both our behaviors. Who looks guilty ? Who lloks confident ? Why would I push him so hard for a claim at the risk of having everyone against me ? Check all the cases that I've brought against Clarity so far and balance them with the points that I've been made against me.
I guess that you can figure out by yourself that you have to vote Clarity today...
By the way, are you scum ?
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On November 07 2012 04:11 Clarity_nl wrote:
I still don't see the reason for claiming, but after him saying he'll wait until I claim to show the flavor of his pm I'm inclined to believe him.
Marv told me that blue roles are not allowed to claim with flavor, only with their vanilla role names, like djo did. I figured I would ask in case he made up something.
Please explain better why you claimed, djo. I don't see "because I was being told I was blue hunting" as a reason.
Why do you want me to claim? and I've already said what I asked marv, why don't you read the damn thread.
I can at least give you a first reason why I'm sure Clarity is not blue. There is a second reason that I'm going to keep for myself at the moment.
Please note how Clarity said, "marv told me" ! I knew this rule regarding the blue flavor as well but I knew it from the beginning. Marv didn't tell me anything about it, it's already in my role PM.
Even if its a poor wording choice from Clarity, a blue Clarity would have understood that we share the same info and would have directly believed my claim at 100%.
You can see that he is doubting it later in the thread.
I hope this is enough to convince you that Clarity is not blue. So you can realize that he is either scum or very bad and stubborn VT.
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@djo
If clarity claims blue, I'd have to reconsider my current read on him. There was a point that I thought he might be blue, very briefly during the cheese incident, but I'm pretty convinced he's VT or scum now (obviously leaning hard towards VT). Mainly, I don't see why he would PM the host about the issue unless he's VT. If he's scum, he could have lied about the PM, and I feel bad for pointing out the idea of the possibility of a PM before he did. If he had made his PM claim before I pointed out its possibility, he'd be pretty much 100% confirmed to me. There are some reasons I can think of for scum to PM the host about the VT text but they seem very unlikely.
Let's say he never claims blue. You probably won't have my vote on him unless something major changes (like a good case on him from someone). Is there some piece of information you could give me to convince me otherwise? You seem to think you've got it all figured out with something you're hiding.
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@djo
That helps confirm that he's not blue indeed.
Do you have something to help convince me he's not VT?
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On November 07 2012 10:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Djo you sure are betting a lot of town's stack on me. What if you are wrong about me and I'm blue, and I claimed because you pushed me to? Now there are two exposed blue roles and we spent 48 hours doing nothing but hunting me.
You answered your own question. It's not hard for me to claim VT, regardless of my alignment.
@ Rad
What do you think of this post ? Is it more likely to come from a scum Clarity, a blue Clarity or a VT Clarity ?
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On November 07 2012 03:48 Djodref wrote:More on the interactions between Clarity and Cheese Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 07:33 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
I don't think there's a way for me to comment on cheese without screwing myself over. I don't think "staying neutral" is a scum tell on D1, but people clearly think so since it's the lynchpin (lol) of the cases on me. Don't you see how this post reeks of guiltiness ? Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 07:46 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think that if you were to go on: being neutral and not making points = scum (on day 1) then Cheese would be a good target.
I'm not convinced that it's scummy though, as I think keeping a clear head and taking in as much information as possible is most important day 1. I find there are always people to push information out of others, and I feel that (for me personally) if I push people I tend to get confirmation bias, so I avoid it early. Please notice how Clarity avoided to push during all this game... Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 07:59 Clarity_nl wrote:
<snip?
Let me rephrase... I don't think that because you're not pushing hard /you're not accusing someone of being scum is being scummy. I actually feel that (WIFOM incoming) scum wants to be active in this format, and gain town favor early, ride that out to a win.
@ Rad
He's being accused of the same things I am, if I argue for/against Cheese it'll all be major WIFOM If you are town and someone is playing the same way you play and is attacked for the same things that you are attacked. there is no WIFOM. The only thing that you should do is sympathize and defend this guy ![b/]
@ Rad
What do you think of this post ?
Does it look like a scum Clarity ?
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On November 07 2012 12:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 10:12 Clarity_nl wrote:
Djo you sure are betting a lot of town's stack on me. What if you are wrong about me and I'm blue, and I claimed because you pushed me to? Now there are two exposed blue roles and we spent 48 hours doing nothing but hunting me.
You answered your own question. It's not hard for me to claim VT, regardless of my alignment. @ RadWhat do you think of this post ? Is it more likely to come from a scum Clarity, a blue Clarity or a VT Clarity ?
It's a hypothetical, so I can't really read into it. I agree with him, what if he's blue and you pushed him so hard he had to claim?
With you showing why you're sure he's not blue, well, that gives you even more blue credit IMO, but doesn't take away VT potential from him. I do (now) get why you pushed so hard to try to make him claim blue though.
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EPT
