EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXX - Page 7
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On November 07 2012 03:05 Djodref wrote: Assuming you're telling the truth, you most definitely were not. Give me some time to think about this. Even if I believe you, I'm not entirely convinced that you must be correct in thinking clarity is scum.No, roleblocks are not notified, but you can easily see how I am pissed off when I'm called a blue hunter... And my main reason to do see is to prevent Clarity and Rad from using the argument "Imma protect the blues". I told you I didn't care if I have to out the blues in order to scumhunt. I was not kidding... | ||
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I'll trust you for now, we have a lot of time today so we don't need to rush. | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:07 Djodref wrote: I think you've made that perfectly clear. I want Clarity lynched today  | ||
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At this point, I don't see any reason to not believe him barring an exceptional counter-claim. I'll see if I can go along with a Clarity lynch as he did post his case against debears D1 fourty minutes after me, at a time where I was convinced he would make a Djod case. I dismissed the possibility that he was sheeping me at the time because I didn't think he could type up a case that quickly, but maybe I shouldn't place too much emphasis on that. I'll have to reread in more detail what actually happened. | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:29 Clarity_nl wrote: 1) I'd say claiming early rather than late is more town-like. Claiming early definitely makes his claim more believable. XXIX is a perfect example of where a late claim only served to be confusing(we didn't have time to think through the possibility that the claim might be fake).Okay... I'm back. A few questions pop to mind immediately. 1)Djo, why did you claim? I don't think you were in any real danger of getting lynched, and I don't think this changes anything about your suspicion of me. 2)What is the flavor in your PM? Why do you want me to claim so bad? Why do you believe that outing yourself at blue makes it less likely that you were blue hunting? You obviously do not want to use your abilities on other blues. Why didn't you protect debears? You explained he was an obvious NK candidate. If you jailed Alsn N1, why did you suspect him today? Why did you "pressure vote" him and now take it back? I have some calls to make right now, after that I'll read through some filters and be back. 2) What would this even prove? Unless there's a second jailkeeper who can back it up, how would that prove anything? | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:31 Djodref wrote: I saw it earlier when I read through the thread, I just haven't had time to address it yet. Do you want me to?yeah, I have been stupid, by the way you did not comment my "mini-case" against you at the end of N1 | ||
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On November 06 2012 09:55 Djodref wrote: 1) See 2)I'm very disappointed that no one have taken a look on the guy who provoked Cheese mislynch. This is the first mention of Cheese in Alsn filter as far as I know. 1)Lynch - 10H -> no mention of Cheese 2)Lynch - 4H -> starts to show attention to Cheese 3)And the best part is that, 2 hours later, Alsn came to us with a concise case which allows him to point Cheese as scum. Alsn shows confidence in his read of Cheese. The time it took to decide that Cheese was scum, the size of his post, the confidence he shows. All these points don't fir Alsn's town meta. I think that he also uses double-standards while voting Cheese over Clarity. Cheese was more consistent than Clarity in his follow-ups and did not avoid discussion. For the rest of the points, they are common to both players.
@ Alsn 4)Why Cheese over Clarity ? 2) To be honest, the fact that I hadn't noticed him much at all other than his fight with you over the joke was what worried me at that point. It felt to me like the only thing Cheese had done during all of D1 was have a fight over a couple of jokes. That seemed quite scummy to me because I just had no idea where he stood on anything. It's the reason why I ask him and Rad for their reads. 3) In fact, I actually get a bit worried when Obzy points out that no one has grilled Cheese about anything at all other than the joke fight. It spurred me to gather my thoughts and make a case. The fact that I had gotten convinced that debears probably wasn't town helped this, because I was afraid he was going to be mislynched if I didn't get another wagon rolling. 4) To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why not Clarity. I guess I trusted him because he had been on my side against debears. I had felt that you and debears had been "unfair" towards clarity by accusing him of blending in when I thought Rad and Cheese were guilty of that too. The fact that Cheese was inconsistent in his reasons for suspecting Clarity(I pointed it out when I called him out for believing the fluff argument, yet not liking Clarity's case because of exactly that, fluff) was probably the last straw for me. | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:38 sylverfyre wrote: Sylver, to your last point. Even if he is playing the newbie card, it's been Rad(and to some extent me) that's been directing him. Or at least so he claims.Rad's becoming more convincing. Obzy I find strange, because it feels like he was actually MORE active during the night phase than day phase. And I'm not sure what to read into the statement, but it strikes me wrongly. You're voting me, but I get the feeling you're listening more to other arguments against me than making any of your own. I'm confused what to think of you until you make a case today. This post feels too much like a subtle "playing the newbie card" I'd say Obzy is making sense from a newbie town point of view, even though Rad(regardless of his alignment) is correct in saying that Obzy should really try and not use the newbie card. Even if he draws fault conclusions, it'd definitely be better for town if Obzy didn't pay as much attention to me and Rad as he claims to have been doing. | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:48 Djodref wrote: You're actually quite right in your arguments here. The problem is that at the time, I sympathized with Clarity because I have to admit, if he had agreed with me regarding Cheese it would have made yours and debears' arguments against him stronger. More on the interactions between Clarity and Cheese Don't you see how this post reeks of guiltiness ? Please notice how Clarity avoided to push during all this game... If you are town and someone is playing the same way you play and is attacked for the same things that you are attacked. there is no WIFOM. The only thing that you should do is sympathize and defend this guy ![b/] However, I can definitely see the point where if he was town, he wouldn't worry about what his accusers thought of him. He would worry about what he really thought about my case on Cheese. In the end, he voted Cheese supposedly only on the basis of Cheese claiming. That, if anything, feels pretty scummy to me. | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:12 Obzy wrote: Bolded by me for emphasis.Regarding Night/Day phase - I expected to not be very active due to being at work, but if work is slow for me, I do a lot of reading; and there weren't as many people on so the thread was a lot slower. When the thread is slow enough, it feels like I can take my time to type out my posts without losing a hold of the conversation. And... I'm having doubts about voting you. Nobody feels suspicious or cares. It feels like CC again in a way, but CC flipped town. I'll remove the vote for now, because I think my reasoning is kind of stupid. I was thinking that if you were scum, the scumteam was Djo/you. If Djo is the jailkeeper [and I don't see any reason to disbelieve this unless another jailkeeper emerges], I have no idea who your scumbuddy is. All of that was based on "if Clarity is town"; comma, "who is left"? - Unless Djo can be shown to be lying or something, I think I'll go back to thinking blindly that Clarity was scum as I had been doing the other day pre-CC lynch. I will try to put together a case for Clarity later today, but if it feels sort of half-assed and empty like my case against you felt then I'm not sure what to think and will have to re-evaluate again. I wish debears had been able to post his case before dying. ^^; ##Unvote I think that's because scum are most worried right now about figuring out how to discredit Djod's wish to lynch Clarity. Assuming he's correct about Clarity/Rad but at this point it's looking pretty likely. | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:17 Rad wrote: Because it just fits? I'm still going to see if there's anything inherently contradictory about it. But the fact remains my suspicions against Cheese were similar to what I felt about you at the time. You were extremely unwilling to vote for anyone of Cheese, debears, Clarity. Two of them are now confirmed to be town, and the last has long been suspected of being scum.@alsn You think it's pretty likely, do you? Can you explain why? | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't see how my post just above this doesn't explain this question, but ok, I'll bite.@ Alsn How does Djod's claim make you turn 180 and say that it's Rad and me? Was your analysis of my possible innocence hinging on Djo being scum? It doesn't hinge on you being scum. But assuming I believe his claim he obviously isn't a likely candidate anymore. So assuming his claim is legit(which I don't have much reason to doubt at this point) you and Rad definitely fit the profile. Like I said, I still want to look at other possibilities, and I will. But for now it seems too good to be true that his claim is fake just to frame the two of you. | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:45 Clarity_nl wrote: Because eliminating him as possible scum means someone else must be? How hard is that to grasp? It also lead me to actually pay more attention to what he was actually saying, as opposed to just looking at whether or not he was suffering from confirmation bias/was scum trying to stay consistent.The reason I ask is because you (maybe not as extravagantly as Rad) argued against Djo, calling out parts of his argument as bogus. You also claimed that it's possible he just has mega confirmation bias. Why do any of these two beliefs diminish, even if marv swooped in and told everyone Djo is Jailkeeper. | ||
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On November 07 2012 04:51 Rad wrote: Now that's either just a straight up lie. Or you have a very weird definition of what town should do. You are now claiming that you were unsure of who to vote leading up to the lynch, but in point 2) you say you "realised he was town" yet you still voted for him? That makes no sense. I'm thinking you're just lying through your teeth here. You wanted your vote to sit on debears because you wanted to make it look like you believed the people who were wary of a Cheese lynch since you knew he would flip town.@alsn I wasn't convinced of who I should vote. I didn't want to vote clarity, for the reasons I stated in the first list I made. I wanted to vote debears but no one else did, so I was questioning myself (also I was considering since he's the most active, I shouldn't vote him). I was also reading sylver as scum but there was no lynch potential on him. So I had clarity (who I was leaning town) or ___? Then the cheese incident happened and everything went into chaos. Because of that chaos, I got 4 reads: 1. Cheese town - his reasons for claiming the first time were clear to me, but he didn't keep it under wraps. He kept spitting it out like VTs didn't notice, and then he straight up spelled it out to debears. This looked genuine to me because I understood his thought process. 2. debears town - his interactions with cheese and his agreeing with sylver being suspicious for not voting him when he still had a chance to be lynched, those things made me realize he was town (VT due to the interactions with cheese) 3. clarity probably town - also due to his interactions with cheese, not as strong, I thought he might be blue but I was leaning VT due to him claiming he PM'd the host. 4. da0ud - town, balls of steel to jump on debears, if debears gets lynched there he and cheese are prime suspects for next 2 lynches. If he's scum, he knows debears is town, so voting cheese is much safer because everyone else is already doing it. This is a main reason I find sylver scummy, for not jumping to debears when he had a chance (because if scum, he knows debears is town, and him staying on cheese is much safer). | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:09 Rad wrote: Now you're deliberately misunderstanding me. You lied because:@alsn He was scum hunting when he had a chance to be lynched. I think that's super townie. He wasn't trying to divert attention from himself possibly getting lynched, he was pointing out scummy behavior at a good time when that information was important. It was important to get sylver's response to that asap because it didn't make sense for him to not jump to his biggest scum tell. I threw the idea out there and he confirmed it was suspicious at that moment when it might be bad for him to point it out. I think scum debears ignores my comment about sylver and possibly revisits it later if sylver is town. The sylver thing happened after I had my vote on debears, and is the point where it all fit together for me. His interactions with cheese + the sylver comment had me convinced. I didn't switch back to cheese at that point because I still had a higher town read on cheese than debears, due to debears trying to blue hunt which was confusing at that point. You say you didn't want to vote for debears because you thought debears was town. Yet you voted for debears. You voted for someone you at the time claim you thought was town | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:17 Rad wrote: You're still trying to explain away your 4 point post where you explicitly say the reason you were uncertain who to vote leading up to lynch was that you had a town read on debears(point 2). Yet you still voted him. You can't take back saying that no matter how hard you try. So either you're lying about what you actually thought at the time, or you think it's ok to vote for your town reads.@alsn At the point I voted for debears, I thought cheese was town, and I still had a scum read on debears. I did not think his interactions with cheese alone necessarily confirmed him VT to me. When da0ud came in and voted debears, I saw that as a better candidate than cheese because I still considered him scum. It was the sylver comment that pushed it over the edge and everything made sense to me. Even then, I had a higher town read on cheese due to debear's blue hunting being confusing as hell, so I stuck with my vote. | ||
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