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On November 05 2012 09:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Please, I had way more pressure as scum last game. Yea, and in that game you also claimed VT as scum.
From the last game:
On November 02 2012 07:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Alsn
For Nack, as I previously said I think he's trying to act all high and mighty to lead the town. He sites all of his experience thinking that we'll believe his every action and word. We don't know if he's town, and quite frankly, I don't want to believe he's town. He thinks you and I are scumbuddies... and the reasons for voting Dandel are pretty obvious, but he could be advocating it just to lead us into a mislynch.
For Debears, he's been pretty consistent. He seems like he goes out of his way to look up stuff from other games, etc to prove his point (see: Meta of Dandel). I find it odd that he just votes Dandel without considering other possibilities. He should be, if he is town, fighting for his top scum read because this is lylo. (If it's Dandel, so be it).
Alsn, I don't know what to think of you. You're all over the place. Dandel's scum, then he's not, then he is again--but at least I can see where you are coming from. Your recent activity wants me to believe you town, because you do actually care about this lynch.
I'm fairly convinced Inig is scum, especially with his sudden reaction to a single vote. I can't see another way about him. Nack being scum with him would only make sense, because Inig for some reason trusts him unconditionally and won't question his authority (unlike yourself, Alsn).
As for myself, I may as well post this now considering the OMGUS vote on me, even though it won't make much of a difference. I'm Rose the Vanilla Townie (Thanks for the killer name Thrawn).
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I think da0ud showed up? Or was it Djod only?
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Of course we're lynching him too fast. We'd be lynching anyone too fast after the chaos that just occured. I'm voting for him because disregarding this latest bullshit, I think he was the most scummy in the thread. The fact that pretty much everyone jumped on him simply because he claimed VT basically means that whoever is scum among the voters is pretty much indistinguishable from anyone else. It sucks for town no matter what, the only good that could come of this lynch is if he's really scum. I'm hoping that I'm right on that point.
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On November 05 2012 09:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Just think guys: What the hell is the scum motivation of blowing up the thread like this? Be logical here. If I were scum, why would I risk everything so suddenly? Hmm? Makes not a bit of sense. That claim was almost asking to get lynched. As a scum, and if I had the role PM, I should have known this would happen. But I didn't, because I didn't know everyone had the VT role PM. How about maybe you didn't know that the thread would blow up?
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On November 05 2012 09:53 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 09:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey, he could be scum. I sure as hell ain't. Better than getting myself lynched when I know I'm green. Man, I am the only one trying to defend you and you say I might be scum ? You better turn green if you get killed otherwise i put myself in danger too.... Would be pretty dumb of me. I just think we changed our mind too fast from the Clarity, Sylver's tragets... He's saying debears might be scum, not you(I think).
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To be honest, I have thought about it. Either way I end up in WIFOM. Either he's telling the truth. Or he's scum and was afraid that there might actually be a wagon forming against him and his only chance was to pretend he was VT and didn't know.
It's too late either way, how can we make an informed decision in 3 minutes?
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Hang on, is the day not over? Or is the "deadline post" just slightly late?
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If the post is just late it doesn't matter either way, since votes after 09:59 won't count anyway.
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This flavour... I feel like I'm part of a snut film or some weird fanfic.
But well, that truly sucks, I seriously hoped I was actually right because this is a pretty shitty situation. It would have been way better if people had been forced to actually vote for someone with reasoning other than pretty much the entire wagon sheeping. That being said, I'm confident that there's something of value among all these votes and the chaos pre-lynch. That'll have to wait for tomorrow however as I really need to be getting some sleep.
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Hello everyone, I'm back for today, will be up until if not all the way, at least very close to the day-shift. Will be catching up on the thread and eating for the foreseeable future.
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So, I'd like to start with asking the following questions:
@da0ud, you had claimed that you considered Clarity to be your top lynch candidate before going to bed. Yet Clarity switching to Cheesecake over debears made you vote for debears? Why? If you believed Cheese to be innocent, why would you suddenly disregard the fact that your top scum read was trying to push Cheese's lynch?
I know that you also considered debears scummy, but what made you choose him? You were the one who was responsible for the debears counter-wagon, why did you pick debears and not Clarity?
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On November 06 2012 02:20 Djodref wrote:
@ Alsn and Rad
What do you think about a Clarity lynch tomorrow ? I'm not convinced either. Right now I'm trying to figure out what exactly I think about you.
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Ok, just would like to say that I've been looking over Clarity and Djodref today.
I feel like Clarity has a good chance of being town. He tried to break up the fight between debears and Rad over the percentage, he made a case against debears at a time where I thought myself that debears might be scum. I don't get the feeling that he's only trying to stay consistent. If he was worried about that I don't think he would have jumped on Cheese for the claim as hard as he did. Since a scum Clarity would have known that Cheese was town, I'd be much more suspicious of him if he chickened out and voted debears in order to stay consistent. Instead he attacked Cheese pretty hard for claiming, something which was sure to bring him a lot of attention seeing as he would have known how the Cheese lynch would end.
I'm however not as sure about Djod. He's definitely acting like I would expect a town Djod to act(acting like Clarity has "lost" the game and should just reveal his partner and stuff like that definitely fits with town Djod from XXVIII. I also don't see why he would ask about scum mechanics(framer mechanics, specifically) out in the open if he was scum. Nor why he would attack Cheese(who a scum Djod would know was town) for joking.
All those things considered, I find most of his accusations to be really empty, like he's looking for "excuses" to attack someone, rather than actually considering their motives. He attacks sylver for vote pressuring, something which Cheese pointed out and that I commended him for, but I dismissed it later because I was thinking "nah, that's just Djod!". His case against Clarity then accuses clarity of blending in and not following up on his reads. Yet Clarity actually gave pretty convincing answers for why he hadn't done so. He kept saying he was going to make a case in the latter half of D1, he did. He had also stated that well before Djod made his case against him. The latter half of Djod's case against Clarity is seeing ghosts where there are none. He accuses Clarity of denying making a list but the post Djod quotes says nothing of the sort.
I'm suspecting maybe there's some confirmation bias shenanigans going on here, but I can see where Cheese was coming from with regards to how hard it is to read Djod. That being said, if there aren't any other scummy looking people tomorrow, Djod is looking like my vote is best placed for now.
I haven't yet looked into sylver very much since the beginning half of D1, but we have two days. I'm thinking I might need to look at Obzy next, or possibly Rad as I don't have much other than that I like their posting so far. And I'd also like it if da0ud answered my question from earlier today. With that, I feel like things need to start rolling again before I know for sure who I want to lynch tomorrow.
I'm off to sleep, although I can check in after I finish watching the DS9 episode I'm currently watching if anyone wants to know something.
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I'm back at home but I gotta eat dinner in a sec, still at page 60 but expect me to be around for another ~10 hours or so today.
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On November 07 2012 01:34 sylverfyre wrote:
Djodref, What do YOU think we would have accomplished if went through with confirming a bunch of VT through debears method on day 1? To be fair, if Cheese had the right assumption and that it was actually possible to "confirm" all VT's, it would probably have been pretty good for town. The problem was, what was to stop a non-VT(either blue or scum) from just saying "uuh, I didn't know everyone knew?" after debears asked that question? There was just no way to confirm anyone as anything considering what we now know, so stop it with the absolutely ridiculous speculation.
However, if it had actually been possible to confirm all the VTs, scum would probably have been in a fishy situation. They would know who the blues were, but they wouldn't know which blues they were. At the same time, all the VTs would have known who not to lynch, in addition to the blues(assuming there's two of them, which is just a guess at this point) knowing among which three players the scum were hiding. That would've probably been a pretty difficult situation for scum because even if they night kill both blues, no VT is going to lynch another VT in a scenario like that. So there's no way for scum to proceed than to NK VTs and hope town lynches the blue players instead of scum. This would still leave 3 VT vs 2 scum in D3 though.
I think Cheese just made a mistake in not thinking it through, as a scenario like that would include no "proper" play at all from the game participants. So if that really was the case Cheese claiming like that would have meant that marv probably would have cancelled and restarted the game with new roles. It's unfortunate that we didn't have enough time to think it through, because in hindsight I think Cheese's argument about "why would I blow up the thread as scum?" looks pretty convincing actually.
That's the last thing I'll say on the matter. The fact is that there's absolutely no way to confirm or deny anything with regards to that clusterfuck. With that in mind, like the late debears said, going forward we should use legit scum hunting, not WIFOM bullshit.
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On November 06 2012 23:58 Djodref wrote:
I'm not planning to post tonight because I'm tired and I need to be able to think clearly. I'm going to drop Clarity for a while because the fact that other players give him a town read makes me crazy...
Alsn, you are not matching at all your usual activity level as town and you have only targeted town players until now (debears and Cheese). What is happening to you ?
I'm using my vote to pressure you into making cases
##unvote
##Vote Alsn I love the absolutely massive hypocrisy of this post. You don't want Clarity to post a case on you when you are away. Then you criticise him for actually listening to you. Then you go around and do the exact same thing to me?
What is happening to me? How about I was asleep and went to work? I've been on pretty consistently from around early-late afternoon my time every single day, so I don't even know what you are basing your post on.
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Also, I'd like to state that I find that the only thing speaking in favour of a town Djod in my mind right now is the possibility that he's using Confirmation Bias Goggles Deluxe 3000™. However, that could just as easily just be him being scum and wanting to stay consistent.
I'm seriously considering Djod as a possible lynch candidate for today, but I want to go through the other players that I haven't yet focused on as much to make sure that there isn't someone more scummy around.
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On November 07 2012 02:44 Djodref wrote:@ AlsnClarity didn't want me to have time to prepare my defense against his case to begin with Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 02:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 02:33 Djodref wrote:one more question clarity, why didn't you discuss with me about my "scuminess" last time. By the way, the lynch is in 7.5 hours which makes it at 10 am for me. It is 2.30am now and I am working tomorrow so I have the right to sleep  Wait, where are you living currently? I didn't want to discuss your scumminess with you because I'd rather have an entire case up, rather than tell you then and give you time to prepare and possible post stuff to contradict my arguements before my case goes up. Yea, so? What's the scum motivation behind that? Explain to me why a town would discuss parts of his case with someone he considers scum beforehand?
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On November 07 2012 02:44 Djodref wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Clarity_nl Brilliant. The second I come back to defend myself you pussy out and drop the vote? Yet you've made a case against sylver specifically emphasizing the voting strategy you claim to use yourself at this very moment(pressuring me) as being scummy?
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Anyway, for now I'm going to work under the assumption that you're suffering from confirmation bias and see where that leads me.
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EPT
