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On November 10 2012 03:27 Blazinghand wrote:Perhaps you're right; perhaps I wouldn't have been able to get people to lynch you for meta, but I've lynched townier players on weaker meta cases than that. At the very least, next time you roll scum try to pay attention to how your scum meta is different than your town meta and play more like your town game. It may not have been obvious to the others, but it was to me. And after this game, people can point and say "look! meta cases against Gonzaw are good!" 
yea, i don't think there are very many players playing who would use meta correctly on gonzaw.
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mementoss was in a way better position day 1 than gonzaw because the case on gonzaw was true whereas the case on mementoss was pretty nonsensical. If we hadn't decided to keep our KP at all costs I might have tried to get gonzaw lynched. I've always wanted to try bussing a teammate day1.
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On November 10 2012 03:24 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:17 Blazinghand wrote:
Gonzaw the reason you looked scummy is your analysis and your play was very different from your town play. You pressure multiple people and post big old multi-pronged walls of text as town. I mean yeah that thing with the fake bad post and the voting at the end of D1 did you no favors but you were my top scumread. Before that all the accusations against me were pretty weak to be honest. "You are not pressuring many people!" is not strong at all and I can easily push it apart by saying "I'm busy" or "there wasn't much going on when I was posting" (which was true, when I was posting only Xfire and BH were active, then I went to sleep and went to uni almost immediately). I think even Keirathi was having second thoughts about it at some points. If it wasn't for the end-D1 thing I don't think I'd have much trouble staying alive. ...well, yeah you were vig and maybe that "weak" reason was enough for you to think I was scum and vig shoot me. However when I play I tend to ignore the possibilities of the single guy that thinks I'm scum but can't convince others being vig and shooting me (if not I'd get pretty paranoid each game). If you think I'm scum but can't convince others then I don't think I'm in any danger (or if I think you could not convince others or the reasons for that I can refute). If you weren't vig I think I could have gotten away with the end-D1 thing too, if I put quite an effort in it. If it wasn't for the restriction it would have been easier though :/ One positive thing about this game: Watching Keirathi get mindfucked and angry at BH in that last day
Nah, the more I went back and read your town games, the more convinced I was. You were acting 99.9% differently than you have in any recent town game, and spent almost all of your time tunneling me. Town gonzaw is suspicious of everyone until he has a good reason not to be, and even if he's fairly sure of a scum read, he still questions the shit out of other people. Basically, your play this game was much, much, much more similar to your play in Liar Game than it was in any of your town games that I read.
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Also....yeah take into account I went to sleep and immediately went to uni and spent all day in uni.
Basically that's like 24 hours where I only made 1 post, and it was entirely due to IRL stuff (sleep+uni). If I had more time I'm sure I could have played like you expected me to do (i.e pressure more players, post bullshit wall of text cases, etc) but sadly I didn't have time.
I can't say something similar would have happened if I was town, but it could have (i.e me making a case against someone I think is scum early, not having much people to talk about, then going to sleep and to uni and miss all D1).
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On November 10 2012 03:27 HiroPro wrote:
keirathi. 3 mafia is normal for a 13 player game. in this game you only have 11. and mafia have two kp. it's understandable if town's powers are strong to compensate.
town's blind trust in blue claims may have helped s&b survive, but it also gave a huge amount of power to bh and hopeless.
Towns powers were 3 times as strong. Every performer could become night immune basically from night 1 with the right usage of vet and mirrors. It would basically be impossible to NK a performer. Imagine if BKE wasn't lynched. And having 2 performers mod confirmed to eachother was just icing on the leaning cake. So basically hopeless and BH could never be NK'd if they used their points defensively. And they could claim mod confirmed and never be lynched. :S
But yeah congrats to SnB for playing as well as he did, there was sure a chance he coulda won, despite having no kp night 1, and we all wanted to concede lol because our gambit relied on a couple townies dieing basically.
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You were quite busy in Aperture 2, also. And I still (mostly) thought you were town.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I never pay attention to IRL excuses under any circumstances. Easily lied about.
Edit: In a way, I almost consider talking about IRL excuses "cheating" in the sense that it's a non-defense that people for whatever reason accept. If I'm ever away from the thread for a period of time, I never give a reason for it. Mafia is about mafia, and that's it.
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On November 10 2012 03:30 strongandbig wrote:
mementoss was in a way better position day 1 than gonzaw because the case on gonzaw was true whereas the case on mementoss was pretty nonsensical. If we hadn't decided to keep our KP at all costs I might have tried to get gonzaw lynched. I've always wanted to try bussing a teammate day1.
This should have been completely worth it.
Still, this game was really fun and I'd like to see it re-hosted in the future, preferably when TL doesn't suffer the wrath of a hurricane.
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You know what though, at least the huge disadvantage we were at on day 1 gave me a chance to make some BIG PLAYS.
I'm pretty happy with this game, actually. I still think it structurally favored town; thinking about it, the fact that some players have better and worse days and games makes me think a host should balance the game structure and the team compositions separately, rather than trying to use one to make up for the other. And I still think there were some mod decisions that were pretty bad. But all in all I'm pretty satisfied with how I dealt with it.
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On November 10 2012 03:30 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:24 gonzaw wrote:On November 10 2012 03:17 Blazinghand wrote:
Gonzaw the reason you looked scummy is your analysis and your play was very different from your town play. You pressure multiple people and post big old multi-pronged walls of text as town. I mean yeah that thing with the fake bad post and the voting at the end of D1 did you no favors but you were my top scumread. Before that all the accusations against me were pretty weak to be honest. "You are not pressuring many people!" is not strong at all and I can easily push it apart by saying "I'm busy" or "there wasn't much going on when I was posting" (which was true, when I was posting only Xfire and BH were active, then I went to sleep and went to uni almost immediately). I think even Keirathi was having second thoughts about it at some points. If it wasn't for the end-D1 thing I don't think I'd have much trouble staying alive. ...well, yeah you were vig and maybe that "weak" reason was enough for you to think I was scum and vig shoot me. However when I play I tend to ignore the possibilities of the single guy that thinks I'm scum but can't convince others being vig and shooting me (if not I'd get pretty paranoid each game). If you think I'm scum but can't convince others then I don't think I'm in any danger (or if I think you could not convince others or the reasons for that I can refute). If you weren't vig I think I could have gotten away with the end-D1 thing too, if I put quite an effort in it. If it wasn't for the restriction it would have been easier though :/ One positive thing about this game: Watching Keirathi get mindfucked and angry at BH in that last day Nah, the more I went back and read your town games, the more convinced I was. You were acting 99.9% differently than you have in any recent town game, and spent almost all of your time tunneling me. Town gonzaw is suspicious of everyone until he has a good reason not to be, and even if he's fairly sure of a scum read, he still questions the shit out of other people. Basically, your play this game was much, much, much more similar to your play in Liar Game than it was in any of your town games that I read.
If this is true.......then why the hell am I FoSed in every game I'm town? 
Come on guys, if you use my meta to "instantly" pin me as scum then at least use it to instantly pin me as town as well :/
That's not fair \:
lol but joking apart, I think some of it had to do with the circumstances (i.e me not being able to be more time in the thread trying to make you doubt your suspicion on me) and maybe you guys putting too much attention on me
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On November 10 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote:
I never pay attention to IRL excuses under any circumstances. Easily lied about.
Edit: In a way, I almost consider talking about IRL excuses "cheating" in the sense that it's a non-defense that people for whatever reason accept. If I'm ever away from the thread for a period of time, I never give a reason for it. Mafia is about mafia, and that's it.
I feel similar, but how I deal with it is never lying about irl circumstances and assuming other people will do the same.
Everything I said in this thread about irl with the night shift and day shift changing was 100% true and would have been exactly as true if I was town.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Man gonzaw just read your posts this game and your posts in any town game. I don't normally FoS you but I've obsed enough games with you in it to know that you don't play like a spear, you play like a trident. Or a ball of needles. You poke a lot, and at a lot of people. You have to at least *try* to emulate that as scum, or at least recognize that you weren't doing that this game, or your scum play simply won't improve. That's my advice.
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On November 10 2012 03:37 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote:
I never pay attention to IRL excuses under any circumstances. Easily lied about.
Edit: In a way, I almost consider talking about IRL excuses "cheating" in the sense that it's a non-defense that people for whatever reason accept. If I'm ever away from the thread for a period of time, I never give a reason for it. Mafia is about mafia, and that's it. I feel similar, but how I deal with it is never lying about irl circumstances and assuming other people will do the same. Everything I said in this thread about irl with the night shift and day shift changing was 100% true and would have been exactly as true if I was town.
It doesn't matter whether it would have been true or not. When someone makes an IRL excuse, I just tune it out. Such sentences literally carry no meaning for me. If someone does it enough, it becomes suspicious. But all I pay attention to is when a guy was or wasn't active, regardless of whether he has an excuse for it. I really really don't care, and honestly your inactivity is not the reason I tried to kill you-- I don't view it as scummy. It was being out of thread a bit, and yeah you missed the first 24h of the last day but that didn't mean anything, excuse or no. That stuff is null to me.
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On November 10 2012 03:34 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:30 strongandbig wrote:
mementoss was in a way better position day 1 than gonzaw because the case on gonzaw was true whereas the case on mementoss was pretty nonsensical. If we hadn't decided to keep our KP at all costs I might have tried to get gonzaw lynched. I've always wanted to try bussing a teammate day1.
This should have been completely worth it. Still, this game was really fun and I'd like to see it re-hosted in the future, preferably when TL doesn't suffer the wrath of a hurricane.
I definitely wouldn't put myself through this again unless the balance was going to be changed.
The concept was a very good one, and I would play a similar one.
But the feeling of having to fight through imbalance was really tough on my mindset. If you look carefully, I think you'll notice how sharply my play declined in quality after I found out that BH and H1 could use 3X as many powers as I could and that they were modconfirmed town to each other. It's pretty much impossible to not let that kind of thing affect you.
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On November 10 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:27 HiroPro wrote:
keirathi. 3 mafia is normal for a 13 player game. in this game you only have 11. and mafia have two kp. it's understandable if town's powers are strong to compensate.
town's blind trust in blue claims may have helped s&b survive, but it also gave a huge amount of power to bh and hopeless. Towns powers were 3 times as strong. Every performer could become night immune basically from night 1 with the right usage of vet and mirrors. It would basically be impossible to NK a performer. Imagine if BKE wasn't lynched. And having 2 performers mod confirmed to eachother was just icing on the leaning cake. So basically hopeless and BH could never be NK'd if they used their points defensively. And they could claim mod confirmed and never be lynched. :S But yeah congrats to SnB for playing as well as he did, there was sure a chance he coulda won, despite having no kp night 1, and we all wanted to concede lol because our gambit relied on a couple townies dieing basically.
oh I didn't realize they were confirmed to each other. eh that kinda makes it really annoying.
You did only need 2 mislynches and a failed vig shot (which is pretty much guaranteed) to win though, right?
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On November 10 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote:
I never pay attention to IRL excuses under any circumstances. Easily lied about.
Edit: In a way, I almost consider talking about IRL excuses "cheating" in the sense that it's a non-defense that people for whatever reason accept. If I'm ever away from the thread for a period of time, I never give a reason for it. Mafia is about mafia, and that's it.
My IRL excuse is for not being able to play better as scum to convince you otherwise mostly.
I.e if I wasn't AFK IRL I could have done things to make you stop having that "top scumread" on me (ie focus on other players instead of Keirathi, or whatever).
Of course if it wasn't for that end-D1 thing I'd use put an IRL excuse like I said earlier. In anybody else's mind except yours and maybe Keirathi it could have been a valid point against your argument ("gonzaw is not pressuring much people"->"it's because gonzaw wasn't around and when he was there was not many people to pressure").
You may not have bought it, Keirathi may not have bought it, but as long as the rest of the players buy it (which I think would have been likely) then it wouldn't matter.
It would also have been enough to strike a little doubt in your head (you'd tell yourself "maybe he's right? Nah he's scum.....what if he isn't?) and that'd be enough for me.
Take SoaF mafia for instance. On D1 I was FoSed by like a hundred people for meta reasons and shit, but once those people were dead/changed their mind I became like a "confirmed townie" on D2 and onwards.
I don't really care for getting FoSed on D1 for "bad" reasons (i.e reasons that I can refute and maybe make people change their mind about it) since I have the chance to refute them, adjust my play accordingly (if I can though, at times I just don't give a fuck ) and make people forget about it later.
It may or may have not happened this game, but well again the whole end-d1 thing happened and you vig shooting me :/
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On November 10 2012 03:42 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 03:32 Mementoss wrote:On November 10 2012 03:27 HiroPro wrote:
keirathi. 3 mafia is normal for a 13 player game. in this game you only have 11. and mafia have two kp. it's understandable if town's powers are strong to compensate.
town's blind trust in blue claims may have helped s&b survive, but it also gave a huge amount of power to bh and hopeless. Towns powers were 3 times as strong. Every performer could become night immune basically from night 1 with the right usage of vet and mirrors. It would basically be impossible to NK a performer. Imagine if BKE wasn't lynched. And having 2 performers mod confirmed to eachother was just icing on the leaning cake. So basically hopeless and BH could never be NK'd if they used their points defensively. And they could claim mod confirmed and never be lynched. :S But yeah congrats to SnB for playing as well as he did, there was sure a chance he coulda won, despite having no kp night 1, and we all wanted to concede lol because our gambit relied on a couple townies dieing basically. oh I didn't realize they were confirmed to each other. eh that kinda makes it really annoying. You did only need 2 mislynches and a failed vig shot (which is pretty much guaranteed) to win though, right?
Lol, this game there were 2 mislynches and three failed vig shots :/
But, you're assuming that our kp actually go through. This game went to LYLO with only one person dying to scum. And the blues can make themselves invincible by using vet+mirror each night and claiming modconfirmed.
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Here's another interesting thing - iGrok put the Wayne Brady PM in the scum QT, but then when we were talking about it he came in and said "I feel obligated to point out that it says "fakeclaims", not "safeclaims"."
>.<
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And TBH I kind of agree with Keirathi that the OP was unambiguous in saying that all four performers were in this game, and having Wayne Brady just not be is getting close to a bastard mod game.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On November 10 2012 03:43 gonzaw wrote:
It would also have been enough to strike a little doubt in your head (you'd tell yourself "maybe he's right? Nah he's scum.....what if he isn't?) and that'd be enough for me.
Lol have you ever played with me?
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On November 10 2012 03:45 strongandbig wrote:
Here's another interesting thing - iGrok put the Wayne Brady PM in the scum QT, but then when we were talking about it he came in and said "I feel obligated to point out that it says "fakeclaims", not "safeclaims"."
>.<
I like screwing with you :p
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EPT
