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Muso
Australia16 Posts
On November 02 2012 19:33 risk.nuke wrote: We're still killing Muso for not having a partner. While prplhz/Promethelax was suspicious Muso is basically busted scum. Can't tell if serious :D | ||
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drazak
United States479 Posts
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drazak
United States479 Posts
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drazak
United States479 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
On November 02 2012 20:17 drazak wrote: I'm just... I'm gonna go fine a corner to cry in, this game. 2 town fake claims on day one that are already admitted fake claims? fucking serious? Not sure what to make of all of it I suggest to just read the thread and do some traditional behavioural analysis. I like my vote on prplhz (sorry Promethelax, your predecssor said some stuff that I cannot jibe with town). @Kushm4sta: you're not thinking straight. Also, blame Bugs for my rolename. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
On November 02 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote: Nofucking body claims a role and then says lol I was just kidding. I wasn't kidding. The reason for roleclaiming was in the encrypted post beforehand. I whiffed a dodgy roleclaim and thought it could be scum getting away scotfree with a mason claim, which would make him "confirmed" in the eyes of too many people. I have to say, I was not expecting a town excuse for fakeclaiming mason. My post on Muso is coming up (as is a more comprehensive post on prplhz). | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
catch a liar by the toe But what if there are two liars? tbh, I don't like what either of them did. Muso's most recent post is just dripping with insincerity and revelations of even more lies (now he's going back and saying that he's actually is experienced and has played games before.) On top of that, the majority of his defense is based on "don't lynch me or else you're a noob." Sorry buddy you cant pull shit like that. This statement from Muso..... "If you were mason and you knew this, and you knew that I within a 99% chance of certainty was also not a mason, then the conclusion you would draw would be that I was town." ..... are you fucking serious is all I have to say. You don't get to play the "if you vote me lolz ur a terribad n00b" card. Acro did lie and stuff, but imo he's saved by.... not actually lying? He did provide that encryption post ahead of time so his claim is wayyyy more believable than the stunt Muso pulled. probably gonna vote muso. I see that both acro and muso are voting prplhz, are you guys fine with voting a replacement? His posts have struck me as too fluffy, but the entirety of the rest of the argument against him depends on the alignments of both Muso and Acro. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Muso
Australia16 Posts
I'm not sure about the whole replacement thing. Host made it pretty clear that he only replaces under exceptional circumstances, which I took to mean people's relatives dying, etc. That would suggest that there was probably a fairly legitimate reason for a number of the points I read as scum tells. So I'm not sure anymore. ##unvote Should at least let the new guy say something. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
One thing I think should be clear from this, and that is that this play was NOT a noobscum play. Well, either that, or his scumbuddy just completely took over in the second half of D1 and told him what to say and how to say it, which I don't think happened. That leaves Muso as an experienced town player, OR an experienced scum player. In either case the gambit is somewhat explainable and I don't have enough information about the rest of his playstyle to decide which, so I will just lay them both out here: The case for Muso Claims noob mason, knowing that a counterclaim is possible. If there is no counterclaim he gets his free ride on town thinking he's a power role. He also gets to play as if he has talked things over for his partner and is "mouth" for his partner. This can be a very powerful ploy if used well and could keep town running in circles all game. Unfortunately for him, he was counterclaimed. Phase 2 of the plan is needed: claim there is no reason for scum to claim mason (which there clearly is, see above) and that he is actually a VT claiming to "protect" the town power roles. An experienced/smart player could have seen this contingency in advance and thought of this backup. The case for Muso Has been made by Muso himself. The scenario where Muso is mafia is a high risk for not all that high a reward. It puts him in the spotlight and has a large chance of backfiring. It is a stupid play. Muso is not playing like he's stupid. At least, not since the first 24 hours of D1. The reason for claiming as town is not stupid. It's just a bit naive, but a good idea at the core. Some other stuff: On November 02 2012 13:30 Muso wrote: Reasoning for my claim: <snip> 2. The wealth of information and reads that are available from this train is enormous. I doubt anybody will disagree with the idea that we've gained a lot more information from today than we would have had we led a lynch on somebody based upon the minor scum hunting that occurred in the first half of today. Not to say that that stuff isn't valuable, just that this provides more definitive answers. Even if nobody is satisfied with my explanations and this does go through to a lynch, this point will remain true. The true Mason reveal was regrettable and once again I do take the blame for that. I don't like this part of the post. If the aim was for the mason claim to go by quietly in the first place, it would NOT generate discussion and thus this could NOT have been the reason for claiming initially, as this post claims. He indicates that the "masons" (in this case my calling his bullshit) played badly by outing his claim, but if the claim had not been countered than this "gambit" would not have generated any discussion at all. This is POST-hoc reasoning about why the claim was good, which sets my spider senses of: he is fabricating the reasons for claiming afterwards, rather than thinking back to when he claimed and what his reasons for claiming were THEN. Secondly, he refers to this "wealth of information", but he never makes a case on anybody (except for rehashing my case on prplhz in more words) nor really says anything about his reads based on this wealth of information. It is quite a classical scum tell to make this kind of assertion, where you refer to past actions as if they have greatly benefited town, without actually benefiting town. In this case, however, it may have been complicated by my coming clean too: if he was planning on using that information to make a case, it got kinda blown away by my outing my fakeclaim too, and he DID flesh out my case on prplhz. So, is Muso scum? I am not sure at this point. I am quite a bit surer of prplhz and I will do his case next. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
What initially made my scumdar ping was this passage: On November 01 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote: I don't know about this Release thing. Calling people scum on page 1 for a dumb reason is generally not something scum would feel like they had to do. There are plenty of other people around but I don't have time right now. Actually I'm going to be busy for most of this game which will suck because my activity is a clear indicator of my alignment (even if people don't use it because they're lazy *cough* thrawn2112 *cough* kushm4sta *cough* Hopeless1der *cough*). Right now I'm reading town on Mattchew, Muso and kind of town on Release and kushm4sta. I'll read the thread harder later today. He pre-excuses his lack of activity (although now that he was replaced we can safely assume this was not a ploy, but a simple headsup: it still got my attention at the time, though) and chums up to quite a number of players for no good reason: he indicates that thrown2112, kushm4sta and Hopeless1der should see him as town. He further chums up with Mattchew, Muso and Release by calling them town, when the game is about 12 hours old. I personally didn't have a town read yet on anybody and found this passage decidedly strange. However, prplhz slipped badly in the claiming ordeal, which I explained earlier and Muso fleshed out in sufficient detail. Note that this case ONLY works if Muso is in fact town. If Muso is scum, then prplhz has no reason to be so surprised. So the question is what case you think is better on its own. A compounding problem is that prplhz will not be around to explain himself and Promethelax cannot explain it, obviously. Also, gonna bring in the meta-lynch-all-replacements rule: it is more likely to replace scum in this manner than to replace town. I don't like using moderator actions to hunt scum, but it is something that is a simple truth. Losing a townie to inactivity is not the end of the world. Losing scum in a similar manner is extremely bad for the game. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
muso/acro His first statement about the double mason claim was this: On November 02 2012 01:52 kushm4sta wrote: Why would a scum fake claim mason....it makes no sense even coming from a 100% newbie. I'm expecting 2 mason teams. Then a page or so goes by with people jumping on the vote muso bandwagon, and then here's kush's next post: On November 02 2012 05:09 kushm4sta wrote: Wow if muso is actually scum and just randomly claimed mason that is going to be the worst scum play ever... ##vote muso until we get a claim from his mason partner. Also I don't think acro's partner should claim until muso's claims. So he thinks that both claims are legit.... then after people start voting muso he decides to vote muso because of.... what change of opinion? None that I can see, just a disclaimer about waiting for additional claims. Muso/Acro if you guys are both town and believe each other to be town, and you're skeptical of prplhz for beliveing both claims, what do you think about kush's actions? After Acro reveals the encryption.... kush decides to vote Acro? Based on what? He didn't say. He gave no reason for unvoting the first fake claim and votes the next fake claim based on...... nothing. shutting down discussion On November 02 2012 07:50 kushm4sta wrote: So I will consider anyone talking about muso, or encryption, or the real scum claim, or anything other than looking for scum in the remaining 12 people, unhelpful and therefore suspicious. That is the dumbest logic ever. Kush says that anyone who talks about muso is derailing discussion? wtf. I'd say that kush was the one actually trying to derail discussion. blue hunting he makes several references to flavor names, and he even specifically asks for vt's to step forward and weigh in on if they think "jessica rabbit" or "kid watching tv" fit with the names other vt's were given. It's not the same asking "hey who is blue" but indirectly it would have the same outcome. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3571 Posts
On November 02 2012 14:25 Acrofales wrote: 2. However, there is a VERY good alternative: prplhz is scum. I had a marginal scumread on him based on a post before I fake claimed. I particularly didn't like him dishing out town reads in a slapdash fashion. However, the main tell is his initial reaction to the mason claim. A "normal" town reaction was exhibited by most other players saying "one of the two is scum", based on the incredibly low probability of there being 2 mason teams. Instead, prplhz's reaction was "there are 2 mason teams". This smells of a player who has more information available to him, namely, that neither Acro nor Muso are scum, and therefore there MUST be two mason teams, because townies don't lie. Given some time he realized that townies can do statistics and were ignoring his helping hand, so he jumped on the easy bandwagon. ##unvote Finally read this over properly. I really like this alternative, it makes sense and is logical. I don't wanna vote yet on the chance that he was offering another possibility (As it is /possible/ there are 2 mason teams) but I would like to hear a response. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3571 Posts
I guess the best bet for finding if he is scum is trying to work out whether Muso is telling us the truth or not. Muso, what do you make of prplhz/Prom? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
Out of Kush and prplhz, against who the main body of the case is similar, I feel prplhz has shown more dodgy behaviour. At least kush's switch came after the majority of the thread had weighed in and said they weren't Muso's mason partner: prplhz did his 180 (thanks for that reminder in your filter, risk) with only my statistics to persuade him in the meantime. I don't feel particularly happy pushing for a lynch on someone who has just subbed in, but the worst thing possible is a no-lynch today: we need that flip information. PS: if the aim is to get information from a lynch, Muso will give info if he flips town (namely, a stronger case against prplhz and kush), whereas prplhz and kush are dudds if they flip town, so that is a point in favour of killing Muso. However, I feel prplhz is FAR more likely to flip scum at this point and killing scum is my goal. Re-voting for emphasis: ##vote Promethelax | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3571 Posts
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