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EchelonTee
United States5244 Posts
On October 12 2012 20:50 Djodref wrote: yeah, I'm assuming that I'm not going to be able to use my votes the next round... Why do you assume that you're advancing over sandroba? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 13 2012 00:45 EchelonTee wrote: What are the modkill/replace rules for this round? OriginalName is not playing at this point. If you have concerns regarding activity/rule violations, please PM a host, don't stick it in the thread. | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
On October 13 2012 00:12 EchelonTee wrote: This post is pretty strange from you. You spent a fairly long post (listed above) detailing your opinions on 3 players, in an organized listed manner. But when it comes to 1der vs ON, a matchup that actually is in play right now, you are much more unclear and hesitant. 1. This point doesn't really hold; you say that a townie who is still in the running for a lynch would probably be more active, which is true. But a scum who is up for lynch would also probably be more active, compared to if he wasn't up for lynch. While I have my own reasons for being suspicious of ON, your logic here is a lot less laid out then your previous points. 2. It's not ok to put down an opinion, then say "well I'm not so sure because I'm a newbie". It seems like you're trying to shy away from responsibility for your actions. Especially because you are more assertive in other posts. If you could make a more definitive stance on 1der/ON, that would be nice. 1) I do maintain my feeling that it makes more sense For town on to plead your case over mafia as u dun really hv yet anyone to really back u up. This is what bother me the most about ON. His lurking made him scummy to me. 2) it was a pretty bad way of me saying I don't have a strong view on him yet. I would then put a vote on ON. But now that I think about it. What to really feel about Djo's vote on ET. Isn't to actually save the scummy lurker? I already stated that there is a high chance that djo and ET cannot be mafia together. If Djo actually is, then his massive 6 votes against ET looks more like a vote to save his accomplice ON. PS: sorry for bad spelling but typing with my phone and this is a massacre... | ||
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da0ud
Hong Kong252 Posts
All these mistakes don't help me plead my case. Had 4 hours sleep last night so please bear with me. Bed time now. Will put votes down few hours before deadline. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On October 10 2012 21:07 sandroba wrote: I'm mad when I can't distiguish between someone being crazy or trying to make a fake contribution. You can vote for whoever you like as long as your explanation doesn't stink. And as long as the person can even get votes, which ET can't even get this round. Better luck reading the game and the thread next time. Make your votes and Explain your votes. Okay. On October 11 2012 10:36 sandroba wrote: Yo. I want da0ud to go to the next round. I have a hunch and those have been pretty good historically. Not only is that not an explanation, sandroba doesn't even comment on the fact that thrawn tried to start a pissing contest with him. He definitely had the time and opportunity to comment on why thrawn was yanking his chain but just glossed over the issue. On October 11 2012 20:49 sandroba wrote: Yes I'm was not explaining anything because nothing was solid yet. I rather let people talk then to post a ton. da0ud and thrawn are flooding the thread a lot, so I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out, even if he didn't make it through. That is because I would expect him to post way less had him gotten a pass as scum. Right now I'm pretty sure ON is scum. There was no reason to throw those 2 random votes and freak out a ton if you had not read the thread. Voting isn't even mandatory. The only explanation is someone informing him erroneously that he would be modkilled due to the cohost pointing out in the thread he had not voted and since on his mind he had to throw some votes somewhere he just used the opportunity to push some agenda that is yet to be seen by voting the most controversial match up. No reason for him to vote that match up at all if he was town and had no info, since he doesn't even know those players, and I would expect him to throw one vote on someone he knew if he didn't have any agenda. His afterthought is that da0ud ended up continuing to post, so he's probably townie...and he wasn't explaining because things weren't solid yet. Why is it that he is exempt from needing to explain anything he did? That so-called hunch should have been based on something, shouldnt it? On October 12 2012 05:17 sandroba wrote: That's pretty ridiculous comment prpl. And I known for my manners or my detailed explanation of my actions? No. Have there been any flips so far? No. Look at the cases people posted, which is the strongest? Definetely the case on ON. How can you ever say that I'm not trying to get scum lynched or that my play has been uninspired? You can't. This is currently the last post of his filter. It contains a large number of passive-aggressive questions that find flaw in items not discussed in prplhz's quote. Things like ON's case is the strongest (have you seen...me?) or the fact that there are no flips (Whether or not someone is flipped has no impact on you reading them as scum the way prplhz described). prpl is quoted as saying sandroba "can do magic" as town, but so far he has not seen that "magic". This type of response from sandroba reads as scummy to me because he's not answering for the things he's done, he's saying that's the way it is and screw you guys for calling him scum over it. He promptly disappears. That response, combined with ET's "meta read" On October 12 2012 02:41 EchelonTee wrote: Sandroba vs. Kush I have a strong feeling that sandroba is town, which unfortunately is a feeling that is 75% meta and only 25% in thread. Sandroba is one of those super strong town players who is comparatively abysmal as a mafia player. When he's mafia, his lack of effort and interest becomes abundantly clear very quickly, sort of like Palmar but even moreso, IMO. Therefore, when he plays mafia I find that he runs active disruption to try and make as much chaos as possible until he inevitably gets shot/lynched. His posts have been been both interested in setup discussion (a common sandroba town tell) and reasonable tempered, compared to how belligerent he can be. I do not want sandroba killed today, but if his activity/interest/track record take a nose dive he should be murdered. Quote me on this if sandroba begins derping. Kush is a tough read for me and I'm pretty much null on him, but I don't want sandroba to advance. You wanted it quoted, so there it is ET. I think there's been plenty of time for sandroba to be useful, and he's been as bad, if not worse than me in terms of helping the town scumhunt. The only proper information/explanation he's provided is why he voted for ON (the strongest case in the game by his own admission) sandroba will get as many of my votes as it takes to move him forward on the chance that ON advances instead of me. If it looks like I''ll be moving forward, he'll get them all. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On October 13 2012 00:38 prplhz wrote: @Hopeless1der Why did you vote Djodref over EchelonTee? I'll do this before I address his case. Djodref was tunneling me at the time and no one else was committed to lighting a fire under me. My play has been admittedly lackluster, and yet everyone is content to just brush me off as scum with little to no discussion. Djodref sums things up nicely in his predictions post (Thrawn good, Hopeless bad), but note the bolded part regarding Hiro-vs-ON + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: Day 1 Round 2 Preview Hopeless/Thrawn It's kind of night and day. Thrawn is active in the thread, gives good contributions and points out what is weird in other players posts. So far I have a slight town read on him. I would expect very good reasons for anyone wanting him to advance. Hopeless on the opposite has almost contributed nothing. He also seems strangely obsessed with people being around at deadline or not. Which is even stranger when you consider that it seems ok for him to unvote everything without warning just before the deadline. I'll develop later on Hopeless, hopefully with some insight from his side, but I would go as far as saying that he is my top scumread at the moment. Prediction: Hopeless advances to the Ro4 3-0 HiroPro/OriginalName At first glance this MU looks easy but it could be more interesting that it looks like. Once thing I have learned in my previous game is that obvious scum players are usually town (Kush being an exception of this rule^^). We could all agree that ON looks bad, like very very bad. Casting last minute panic votes (on me on top of that) after zero posts and not even properly explaining his motives is scummy as hell. But thinking about it, I cannot imagine any mafia player being this obvious. So I want to give him a second chance for today and see if he can make it up before the deadline. HiroPro hasn't posting that much and I didn't like his post encouraging people to share their thoughts and plans about the lynch mechanics. Right now, I would vote him over ON but I don't want to spend more than 3 votes on this (I didn't keep my 10 votes like, let's say, Hopeless). Prediction: ON advaces against my will to the Round 4 5-3 Basically, I'm too scummy to be scum. And yeah, that's a stretch, but read my filter for the level of evasiveness and unproductive behavior. I actively avoided discussion and existed in my own little world of deadlines and schedules, all of which came up in djodref's case against me. I wanted djodref to advance because I felt I'd have a better chance at getting this case made against me and seeing if anyone bites onto it. So far, the responses have not been too supportive of his case, despite the fact that it makes sense, doesn't misrepresent me or what I did, and has clear and well thought out reasons for his vote against me. Djodref has been very consistent and open in his read of me AND of his stance of ON's lurking not being that scummy. For this, I now think he's town. I voted him to advance because I wanted to ensure I could the case on me made (knowing I looked scummy as shit) to see how his reads would or would not change. I feel that if I had advanced ET, he would not have been pressured into making the case. In addition, it demonstrates that djodref can and does provide his reads to the town and is an asset worth having around. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Please don't kill me Mementoss Dropping sandroba x3 for now. I doubt it takes that many anyways. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On October 13 2012 01:42 Hopeless1der wrote: I'll do this before I address his case. Djodref was tunneling me at the time and no one else was committed to lighting a fire under me. My play has been admittedly lackluster, and yet everyone is content to just brush me off as scum with little to no discussion. Djodref sums things up nicely in his predictions post (Thrawn good, Hopeless bad), but note the bolded part regarding Hiro-vs-ON + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: Day 1 Round 2 Preview Hopeless/Thrawn It's kind of night and day. Thrawn is active in the thread, gives good contributions and points out what is weird in other players posts. So far I have a slight town read on him. I would expect very good reasons for anyone wanting him to advance. Hopeless on the opposite has almost contributed nothing. He also seems strangely obsessed with people being around at deadline or not. Which is even stranger when you consider that it seems ok for him to unvote everything without warning just before the deadline. I'll develop later on Hopeless, hopefully with some insight from his side, but I would go as far as saying that he is my top scumread at the moment. Prediction: Hopeless advances to the Ro4 3-0 HiroPro/OriginalName At first glance this MU looks easy but it could be more interesting that it looks like. Once thing I have learned in my previous game is that obvious scum players are usually town (Kush being an exception of this rule^^). We could all agree that ON looks bad, like very very bad. Casting last minute panic votes (on me on top of that) after zero posts and not even properly explaining his motives is scummy as hell. But thinking about it, I cannot imagine any mafia player being this obvious. So I want to give him a second chance for today and see if he can make it up before the deadline. HiroPro hasn't posting that much and I didn't like his post encouraging people to share their thoughts and plans about the lynch mechanics. Right now, I would vote him over ON but I don't want to spend more than 3 votes on this (I didn't keep my 10 votes like, let's say, Hopeless). Prediction: ON advaces against my will to the Round 4 5-3 Basically, I'm too scummy to be scum. And yeah, that's a stretch, but read my filter for the level of evasiveness and unproductive behavior. I actively avoided discussion and existed in my own little world of deadlines and schedules, all of which came up in djodref's case against me. I wanted djodref to advance because I felt I'd have a better chance at getting this case made against me and seeing if anyone bites onto it. So far, the responses have not been too supportive of his case, despite the fact that it makes sense, doesn't misrepresent me or what I did, and has clear and well thought out reasons for his vote against me. Djodref has been very consistent and open in his read of me AND of his stance of ON's lurking not being that scummy. For this, I now think he's town. I voted him to advance because I wanted to ensure I could the case on me made (knowing I looked scummy as shit) to see how his reads would or would not change. I feel that if I had advanced ET, he would not have been pressured into making the case. In addition, it demonstrates that djodref can and does provide his reads to the town and is an asset worth having around. I'm confused.... You voted for djodref because he was tunneling you and you wanted to see if he would be consistent with his case against you? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On October 13 2012 00:56 JingleHell wrote: If you have concerns regarding activity/rule violations, please PM a host, don't stick it in the thread. Why can't we discuss the probability of ON getting replaced if it affects the vote? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 13 2012 02:20 kushm4sta wrote: Why can't we discuss the probability of ON getting replaced if it affects the vote? You discussing that sort of thing among yourselves isn't what I told you to keep out of the thread. Directing some sort of expectations regarding modkills/replacements or similar at the hosts is. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
I read your statement 5 times and I can't follow your logic. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5244 Posts
The issue I have with this is that this says nothing about djodref's alignment. You say that because he say scumminess in you, he must be townie. Do you not understand that both town and scum want to make cases on scummy people? Towns people want to kill scum, while scum want to kill bad townies who make themselves look scummy. Like you. You basically ensured your demise to get >>1<< town read. You haven't thought this through. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5244 Posts
What would you have done if I had put a big fat case on you? I've had my eye on you for ages; maybe if you had advanced me instead I would've done that case. What that make me townie? What you yourself acknowledge is that you look scummy and that you have played bad; how the hell are we supposed to know if you're town? Usually I lynch scummy people because by definition of the adjective, they are most likely to be scum. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On October 13 2012 02:28 EchelonTee wrote: I think he's saying that he did a gambit. Deliberately making himself scum to try and attract a case on him? The issue I have with this is that this says nothing about djodref's alignment. You say that because he say scumminess in you, he must be townie. Do you not understand that both town and scum want to make cases on scummy people? Towns people want to kill scum, while scum want to kill bad townies who make themselves look scummy. Like you. You basically ensured your demise to get >>1<< town read. You haven't thought this through. That's what I'm getting but I'm still trying to work through the logic of it...like I just don't see how it makes sense | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On October 13 2012 02:33 thrawn2112 wrote: That's what I'm getting but I'm still trying to work through the logic of it...like I just don't see how it makes sense I know I'm town. Scum also knows I'm town. Despite the fact that I look like shit, the only player to properly address my play so far has been djodref. No one batted an eyelash when I advanced over mementoss or thrawn. There's been no redirection involving my matchups. I've been the clear forerunner the entire time, the easiest, biggest target there is, and NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE A SWING? I'll bet every town player in this game has been nursing suspicions on me since day 1. No one wants to be implicated in any connection to me. I needed the case on me to actually be built. My alignment is the only thing I know right now, its the only thing that I can manipulate to get information from other people. I felt that djodref was the strongest candidate to push for this case based on his existing assertions that I was scummy. Now that its out in the open, people need to take a stance on whether or not my actions appeared too planned, too scummy, too crafted to make sense from a scum perspective, and they absolutely could, but I'm saying that I did it on purpose and that I'm town. On October 13 2012 00:38 EchelonTee wrote: No. You unvoted to preserve votes, but the manner in which you did it is shady. If you don't enjoy policy lynches, you shouldn't pull stunts like that. I'll pull stunts like this if they work. Like you said, it was shady. Of course it was. That's been my whole point. On October 13 2012 02:31 EchelonTee wrote: The more I think about this the more it doesn't make sense. What would you have done if I had put a big fat case on you? I've had my eye on you for ages; maybe if you had advanced me instead I would've done that case. What that make me townie? What you yourself acknowledge is that you look scummy and that you have played bad; how the hell are we supposed to know if you're town? Usually I lynch scummy people because by definition of the adjective, they are most likely to be scum. I pretty much would have OMGUS'd you to see how angry you got and gauge your reaction afterwards. You've already chewed out Mementoss and OriginalName for casting 'aspersions' on you. Reading you as town would have depended on how hard you derailed the thread being angry with me, not just calling me scum. It is never just what you do, its how you do it. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On October 13 2012 03:17 thrawn2112 wrote: OK so you pushe ddjodref though to get a read on his alignment... by way of seeing if he were to make a case against you after he moved forwards. So that means at the time you voted djod you knew that you already looked scummy? Had you been playing intentionally scummy from the start as part of a gambit? I Ninja Unvoted + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: IF you make any statement towards being inactive at the deadline (like mementoss has) then if you do anything around the deadline you're instantly suspicious. You will be scrutinized and the town will have a greater ability to control the lynch because everyone will know that certain votes are completely locked in place and are not subject to change. I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Explicitly NOT giving a proper read on kush in the spoilered post above, despite causing him to advance in his bracket. I basically gave a summary of what happened with my votes without giving any solid input concerning my reads. I also posted this in the spoiler: On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. And my general insistence on deadlines and schedules earlier on in the game, instead of scumhunting or engaging in ANY productive discussion whatsoever. Working on my response to djodref's case. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On October 13 2012 03:28 Hopeless1der wrote: I Ninja Unvoted + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: IF you make any statement towards being inactive at the deadline (like mementoss has) then if you do anything around the deadline you're instantly suspicious. You will be scrutinized and the town will have a greater ability to control the lynch because everyone will know that certain votes are completely locked in place and are not subject to change. I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Explicitly NOT giving a proper read on kush in the spoilered post above, despite causing him to advance in his bracket. I basically gave a summary of what happened with my votes without giving any solid input concerning my reads. I also posted this in the spoiler: And my general insistence on deadlines and schedules earlier on in the game, instead of scumhunting or engaging in ANY productive discussion whatsoever. Working on my response to djodref's case. K it might be because I'm tri[[ing hard right now but that response didn't make sende in relation to the question I asked. Can you try again? Basically I'm just confused as to wtf you've exactly been doing this game. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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