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@RemedySC
On October 01 2012 11:06 RemedySC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 08:25 Omniscient4983 wrote:On October 01 2012 07:47 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983 If you're saved by a medic, don't you get a PM that states this? The reason I quoted Darth was because he stated that a medic saved him. Was this an assumption on his part? I took it as truth. . Also you point out three people, which out of the three you say there is a high likelihood of one being scum. So i'm going to ask, who is your top scum read?
Debears without a doubt. Djodref I see as leaning town and Alsn is still pretty null / slightly scum for me, even after previewing some cases against him.
I was suspicious of Debears ever since I questioned his claiming Djodref as town. I find that he has a ton of posts throughout the thread, many that are long cases against various people. At the beginning of night 1, I thought we should move away from him to pursue other cases; however, since that time, I think a lot of his posts are attempting to deflect attention away from him and at other people. It isn't that these posts are void of content, it is that they seem extensive and overbearing as if to crowd the thread with information that isn't anti-debears.
As for my vote:
##Vote Debears
@Alsn
On October 01 2012 23:45 Alsn wrote:@OmniscientI'd like you to respond to RemedySC's questions, but I'd also like to ask you about the following quote: Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:46 Omniscient4983 wrote:
@stutters
I'm inclined to agree here. Seems like you kind of jumped on the anti-Kush bandwagon without much thought. Admittedly, I didn't like his early play either, but I'm interested in hearing what you have to say concerning it. What made you suspect that stutters suddenly jumped the kush bandwagon? At that point there wasn't even much of a wagon to jump onto. Yes, Darth had been pressuing kush pretty hard, but other than that people had been mostly cautious at that stage. I would argue that Stutters and SDM actually caused the wagon.
I questioned Stutters for bandwagoning because of this brief post:
On September 29 2012 00:00 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm awake. Catching up now.
First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play.
At the time, it looked like he had just kind of taken the flavor of the thread (which was, through and through, anti-Kush after the YOU ARE SCUM accusation by Darth) and posted it into his "I'm back!" post. It was a few hours since this post, and he had not posted since. The "first impression" seemed like the only input he was giving. You'll see that about an hour or so after my post (and a few after his), he gives his thoughts and opinions here:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 02:27 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:36 kushm4sta wrote:On September 29 2012 00:00 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm awake. Catching up now.
First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play.
Reading everything more in depth now. I'm sorry you don't like my early play. Care to expand on that? I don't like your early play either, except I will tell you why: you are a lurker. It's been several hours since you said you read everything in depth, why not share your thoughts then? On September 28 2012 07:41 Stutters695 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 07:08 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. Encouraging newbie towns to post is more important than typing out the same things I've said about lurker policy in XXVI and XXVII yet again: If we don't have a good scum case (lurker or active) by late d1, we lynch the most suspicious lurker. We should obviously be looking to avoid that scenario by scum hunting. That's really all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned. Agreed but, regrettably, there isn't really anything else to talk about this early. To second his point about townies being active, don't get intimidated if you aren't really sure how to make a case and stop posting. Long cases aren't the only way to catch scum so if you feel overwhelmed sick around and ask questions. Demand answers for things you find wrong. Even if it doesn't directly catch a scum it provides insight into both you and the person you question. Silence allows the scum to hide very easily without having to do anything. This is your first post. Let me summarize: 1 theres nothing to talk about d1 2 townies should be active So you didn't actually give your lurker policy. 1 is just anti town. A lot of stuff has happened that you can talk about. 2 is just obvious beyond obvious. Alright, here are my thoughts. Starting with this post (^). You have issues with reading or you're misrepresenting intentionally. I said "there isn't anything to talk about this early. As in the time of posting that what can we discuss except lurker and simple policy that has nothing to do with a case. Number two is obvious because you have played multiple games. Not everyone has. My first game I played like I described in my post and was dead weight. I was carried and simply posting more would have helped out with that. Even if it is completely obvious to everyone in the game it still was worth saying. It gave you something to accuse me with, which opens up discussion. Now onto your other case of misrepresenting (Full quote in spoiler for context, relevant part is immediately after). + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:Darthpunk 1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me. What you meant was agree with me about kush or I will FOS you.
2 Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason? Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:@corrosionI'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time  . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation. Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point. ##Unvote##FoS: Kush @darthpunk
Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum?He explains his strategy: So why have you already FOSed 3 different people? 3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke. Show nested quote +If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?
This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed. 4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was. Show nested quote +4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was. Can you show me where this happened? I checked the postgame from XXVI and it wasn't there. I checked the pregame for XXVII and it wasn't there. The closest I found was this post from Hapa that says they made the mistake of shooting kreb N2 because of the gut read Jacob had on you as town and that they couldn't kill Jacob, you and myself at once N3 to reduce the number of confirmed/near-confirmed. If this is the quote, it wasn't that your amazing play put you in such a confirmed town role that they should have shot you, its that Jacob (de-facto town leader) thought you were town. He isn't off the mark in saying that your play makes it so you don't get night-killed. If Jacob had been iffy about you I'd bet money Hapa wouldn't have said anything about scum shooting you. Instead of addressing why less than a day into the game you aren't worried about a nightkill you accuse him of flaming while misrepresenting previous games to avoid answering.
Here he did a good job of addressing Kush, and calling him out on the "at least i won't be nk" response.
The reason I thought Stutters was "jumping on the bandwagon" was because it seemed as if he were taking what was obvious, and specifically agreeing with it briefly in his return post. After hearing his reasons as to why he didn't like his early play (i.e avoiding answering and accusing of flaming), he effectively answered my question.
If Stutter's reasons were there, I wouldn't have thought he was jumping on the bandwagon.
Overall, my slightly-town reads are:
Djodref, Corrosion, BosoN, and of course, Darth
My best scum read is Debears, and a slight scum-read is on Alsn.
The rest (especially Lesrah!!! haha) Are fairly null.
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Oh and I forgot:
@DarthPunk
You promised a cookie, where is it? 
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow.
So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote:
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up.
This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting.
Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me.
Intro:
+ Show Spoiler +When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post. On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post: On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote:
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content And instead posts: On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point).
Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make.
On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum) Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however.
Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum).
On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out.
Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie.
Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect.
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For now I'm leaning Alsn but I'm interested in hearing his response.
##Vote: Alsn
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Sorry guys I'm back. Catching up now.
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On October 02 2012 03:08 Omniscient4983 wrote:@RemedySCShow nested quote +On October 01 2012 11:06 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 08:25 Omniscient4983 wrote:On October 01 2012 07:47 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983 If you're saved by a medic, don't you get a PM that states this? The reason I quoted Darth was because he stated that a medic saved him. Was this an assumption on his part? I took it as truth. . Also you point out three people, which out of the three you say there is a high likelihood of one being scum. So i'm going to ask, who is your top scum read? Debears without a doubt. Djodref I see as leaning town and Alsn is still pretty null / slightly scum for me, even after previewing some cases against him. I was suspicious of Debears ever since I questioned his claiming Djodref as town. I find that he has a ton of posts throughout the thread, many that are long cases against various people. At the beginning of night 1, I thought we should move away from him to pursue other cases; however, since that time, I think a lot of his posts are attempting to deflect attention away from him and at other people. It isn't that these posts are void of content, it is that they seem extensive and overbearing as if to crowd the thread with information that isn't anti-debears. As for my vote: ##Vote Debears
I get really paranoid when people jump the Debears wagon with this kind of reasoning. He's making too many long many cases? Really, that's what confirms your suspicion?
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Vote Count!
If your vote is not properly formatted it will not be counted. Everyone is required to vote.
debears (2) - djodref, Omniscient4983, DarthPunk
Alsn (2) - DarthPunk, Sonic Death Monkey
no lynch (1) corrosion
Not Voting (6) - Lesrah, Z-Boson, Alsn, RemedySC, Stutters695, debears
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Currently, nobody is set to be lynched! If you see that your vote is incorrect then pm me. Info on Lesrah/corrosion situation coming soon.
You have about 24 hours 40 minutes left to vote! Deadline is at 20:00 GMT (+00:00)
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On October 02 2012 04:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I get really paranoid when people jump the Debears wagon with this kind of reasoning. He's making too many long many cases? Really, that's what confirms your suspicion?
I'm not jumping the wagon--I've always thought Debears would be a candidate for lynch. There are many points against him, including the association / defense of Kush, townie reference, meta-based arguments, etc... the only thing as of late that erks me is all the different cases. It seems as if he's diverting attention / spreading chaos to make the case against him seem insignificant as compared to those of others. Z-BosoN made an extensive case against him--reference it if you'd like. The long cases don't so much confirm the suspicion as they do add to it.
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@Omniscient
Another question. Could explain your town read on Corrosion? I want you to elaborate because the last mention of him in your posts is -
On September 30 2012 09:10 Omniscient4983 wrote:@RemedySCAppreciate the response. I somewhat misinterpreted your goal in the post concerning Corrosion. Now that I look at it, the second reason for Corrosion's voting Kush is actually ridiculous. On a side note - are most people in this game asleep when we are able to post? Seems that way. Time differences 
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EBWOP - could you explain*
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On October 02 2012 05:10 Omniscient4983 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I get really paranoid when people jump the Debears wagon with this kind of reasoning. He's making too many long many cases? Really, that's what confirms your suspicion? I'm not jumping the wagon--I've always thought Debears would be a candidate for lynch. There are many points against him, including the association / defense of Kush, townie reference, meta-based arguments, etc... the only thing as of late that erks me is all the different cases. It seems as if he's diverting attention / spreading chaos to make the case against him seem insignificant as compared to those of others. Z-BosoN made an extensive case against him--reference it if you'd like. The long cases don't so much confirm the suspicion as they do add to it.
Ok, so the potential scum slip was what you were referencing when you said Debears confirmed Djo town, I was going to ask about that.
Anyway, if Debears is town, how do you think he would react to the accusations? How do you think he should react? Trying to build cases against players he find suspicouis seems like a good and pro-town idea. Convincing us that other players are more suspicious than him is equally a town motivation as it is scum.
What do you think about the Alsn case?
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@SDM
I'll give my thoughts on your case.
It is very compelling. The timings are iffy, but that could make perfect sense as to why Kush acted how he did. I was kind of thinking that earlier, if his team was inactive (Lesrah + a lurker) he would be on his own and broke under the pressure. Your point makes better sense though me thinks.
Also Alsn was the very last person to vote on Kush. Not much by itself, but his post indicated that Kush wasnt near his top scum read. Why make a vote on someone you don't believe is scum, and even defend.
On Debears
I have been very skeptical while reading the cases against him. Going to look more at it, but currently feel a bit indifferent.
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On October 02 2012 05:56 RemedySC wrote:
@SDM
I'll give my thoughts on your case.
It is very compelling. The timings are iffy, but that could make perfect sense as to why Kush acted how he did. I was kind of thinking that earlier, if his team was inactive (Lesrah + a lurker) he would be on his own and broke under the pressure. Your point makes better sense though me thinks.
I'm not sure my point necessarily makes more sense. I've been thinking about what you're saying and the problem is it kind of leaves with nothing, at least at the moment.
Anyway, that wasn't the main thing I found suspicious, it just fits in whereas earlier I thought it didn't.
I still need to look closer into the Debears' filter myself. Going through Alsn's filter was like banging you head into a wall of bricks so that's been my main focus so far. This obviously means I've still not decided.
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@omniscient
What would you rather me do?
1) post nothing
2) post worthless shit spread out
3) post cases all in one post
The reason i like to make thorough cases in one post is that they are easy to find. Also, it minimizes clutter by keeping it in one section. If i spread out my cases, they become hard to follow. Reexamine your reasoning about long posts. Trying reading a guide and seeing what they say about long posts on a specific person
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@RemedySC
I'm sure a few people have mentioned this about Corrosion: the fact that he "attacked" Darth, or, as someone said, "cast a scummy shadow" on him. At this point, he doesn't totally trust Darth because it's d1, and Kush isn't obvious scum yet. Personally, it seems like he is trying to be objective about the issue at hand. He points out a totally plausible case.
On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote:One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread.
Later, he mentions that Kush is indeed suspicious but doesn't want to focus on one person like Darth is. I don't see it as scum-motivation or an attack on Darth. I see it as common sense.
As for my post saying that his second reason for voting Kush was ridiculous: it was. It has nothing to do with Kush. He basically says that it would be better to pull a name out of a hat and lynch them than have a no-lynch.
However, I think he's coming off as genuinely newbie-town. He's trying to contribute. I also find this post to be very town-like.
On October 01 2012 00:29 corrosion wrote:Darth's response was clear and to the point (pointing out the error in my post). I liked it. I also think Remedy made good points: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 23:15 RemedySC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now:
I'm sorry, but I don't believe these are reasons a town would choose to make a vote. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. So the scum slip itself doesn't give you good reason to vote for him, but his poor defense does? A mafia making a scum slip could have the best explanation in the world. That doesn't exonerate them. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch.
So your second reason isn't even something that Kush has done. Wouldn't you also say that mafia would benefit from a mis-lynch more than from a no-lynch? Could you elaborate more on the bolded part, because you give no explanation as to how a mafia would benefit more from a no-lynch. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details.
You would think a town would want to be more than 25% sure the person they are voting for is scum. You don't even have any cases made against kush. No questions asked. Very vague reasons given... This looks like good scum-hunting to me. Well done.
He likes the feedback he is getting. If he were scum, he likely would have gotten very defensive about these points in efforts to exonerate himself. He admits faults; something I think scum would have a hard time doing.
That is just, in brief, why i have a slight-town read on Corrosion. Nothing decisive as of yet. Unfortunately, he says he won't be around to post much more, and can't be sure on my read of him if he ceases to post.
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I'm really suspicious of Alsn. Again red is for emphasis inside of the spoilers.
His second post of the game he puts a FoS on Kush.
+ Show Spoiler [FoS on Kushm4sta] +On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a: FoS kushm4stakush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak. That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth: Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:I am not flaming Kush. I am legitimately scum hunting. The contrast in this situation, to the one with shiao, are so stark that there is no point even bringing it up. You will know when I am flaming when you see it, and even then it is not really that big a scum tell. I can tell the difference between Scummy town and actual scum, and it is not 'illogical' to be able to do this. Kush right now is not scummy town. He has slipped HUGELY. He is conforming to his previous scum meta. Seriously...
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum. This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies. I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast.
The most important thing to focus on from this is even when he FoSes Kush he states that he thinks everyone is jumping the gun, but if Kush doesn't shape up his posting he is ok with lynching him. This post and the next one are what made me go WTF.
On September 29 2012 18:17 Alsn wrote:
First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange).
Looking at the vote count, the last official count says 7, and now corrosion added his vote for a total of 8. With myself that would be 9, the exact number of town in this game. From my point of view, unless kushm4sta, Djodref and Lesrah are the 3 scum, there are scum pushing this lynch.
Given that, I'm really starting to dislike this lynch. I agree however that kush has been mostly concerned with defending himself against perceived injustice rather than actually trying to hunt scum, this still does not convince me that he is scum. Lynching scum with an overwhelming majority D1 just seems like way too improbably. Sure, if we had to fight tooth and nail to get 7 votes, I might buy it, but that's not the case. It seems to me there must be scum sheeping onto this lynch.
Like I've stated before I can go along with the kush lynch, but I'd rather try and lynch my top scum read at this point and with the current developments, I see a kush lynch more as a last resort than my main scum read. Unfortunately, this argument is only available to people who have yet to vote and are town, as well as to scum since other than myself only scum are aware of my alignment. For everyone else, the "unless a, b and c are scum" argument will include me.
My argument is at least enough to convince myself, so I'll be scouring the thread for the next couple of hours to see if my "gut scum reads" so far have any merit and if so push that/those case(s) instead. If it turns out that they are going nowhere, I will vote kush. But I still feel we have enough time to at least have a discussion on the topic of "just wtf is going on here?!".
So now that the game has dragged on and Kush's play has deteriorated, what happened to "unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him." ?
You also say you'd rather try and lynch your top scumread (first red highlight) but up until this post you haven't posted a single scum read. The best you've done is questioned Z-Boson until you dropped it over time. Why are you suggesting we should have lynched someone else without posting a case or even who you are suspicious of? Additionally who were those "gut scum reads" you mentioned? Going forward to where you
+ Show Spoiler [Voting for Kushm4sta] +On September 29 2012 21:15 Alsn wrote:
I've been doing some soul searching and I'm starting to agree that it's not worth it to try and push any other cases right now.
Mostly because my entire premise was that I was thinking it to be unlikely for kush to be scum. I realise that after trying to put into words why I think that is so, I have nothing other than the fact that I "feel" him to be town, which is a really stupid reason for absolving him. I thought I could back it up by saying he's been pressured to hard, there's no way he's responsible for not scum hunting. But in the end, I can't find a logical reason to forgive him if I exclude my own gut feeling from the equation.
I think now that my best option is to hold on to whatever small reads I have(because while I have some suspicions, I don't think they are rock solid) until after the lynch is over. Because at least then, we will have more information.
So for now, although my gut is screaming at me, I'll commit to voting for kush, mostly because most of what I said about BosoN has returned somewhat satisfactory answers, I really don't like the way a lot of people got away with not basically posting anything at all(I'm looking at you, Djodref, corrosion, Omniscient, RemedySC). I think that's probably what irks me the most, the thing I was most hoping would not happen, did happen.
##Vote: kushm4sta
Now I'm a little confused with his logic. With his vote the lynch is essentially finished (if scum wanted to last minute switch they'd be giving themselves away and it would be GG) but instead of sharing any of his reads (his gut feelings or his top scumread) he decides he should wait til after the lynch to share any "reads". Doesn't this directly go against his "we need to start exploring different possibilities"? He even listed four lurkers he could have pressured them throughout the day, but instead he argued with DP about Kush (whom we shouldn't focus entirely on according to Alsn).
His whole day 1 posting is scummy as hell to me and reeks of someone who tried to help defend Kush before Kush melted down and tried to retroactively justify this defense through maintaining that stance. His case on debears is a good contribution (at first glance, I haven't read it in context of the thread yet) but I want to see how he explains his contradictions and false promises from day 1.
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Lesrah has pm'd me letting me know he's here. I don't like to modkill if I can avoid it, so he's been warned about his D1 behavior and is being allowed to join the game.
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On October 02 2012 07:32 debears wrote:
@omniscient
What would you rather me do?
1) post nothing
2) post worthless shit spread out
3) post cases all in one post
4) Be decisive.
The thread doesn't need to know every thought you have. You're talking about this person, then that person, then that guy over there. It's not that these cases aren't truthful/don't hold merit. I just find all of it to be a bit excessive. I apologize if it's inherently wrong to view it in such a manner.
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EPT
