Rockband Mini Mafia
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Unless that's a 1 base build you gotta survive my 1 base attack first | ||
Blazinghand
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In This Picture: Mvp presents his solution to the Protoss Deathball. | ||
Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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of course I'm actually a super terrible scum player but I'm gonna leave that idea on the shelf for now. Maybe I've learned a bit from my own coaching, but I suspect I'll still be the same old BH once the game starts. Don't expect any SK claims from me this time around though, I've learned my lesson. I've learned it well. | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? You only ask this question or similar when you roll scum. Scum games where you asked the question: GSL Open: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925&user=126438 You open this game with On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is? thanks DF Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346&user=126438 You wait quite a bit after the game start to open up with this: On August 08 2012 05:38 prplhz wrote: Hey didn't read thread yet can anybody tell me who is scum? The scum game in which you don't ask this question, you aggressively push a Policy Lynch of MrZ because he's a terrible player: Movie Star: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346522&user=126438 And you open the attack like this: On June 22 2012 07:38 prplhz wrote: I always do stuff. If you didn't notice, before I died I pointed out the last two scum. Everybody was just lynching me because of something someone else did which sucked out my motivation but I still read thread and filters. How exactly is zentor in a game that he /outed? What these openers all have in common is that they generate discussion and let you make accusations without backing them up, doing analysis, or generating associative tells. Obviously it's not perfect, since you caught some heat for it in Movie star, but you deflected the heat rather expertly in my opinion. Now, admittedly, the link between this openings seems tenuous at first glance. But the difference between how you open as scum and how you open as town is like night and day-- I've hosted and co-hosted enough games with you in it to tell the difference (yes, that's an appeal to authority, but it's a legitimate appeal). Obviously, I want people to evaluate the evidence for themselves, so I'm gonna point out some Town games where you could have asked this question or similar, but quite notably did not, because you actually do the work yourself as Town. In fact, you never ask the question as town. Notably, you don't ask the question in the following games that had smurfs or people you hadn't played with before. Town games, in which you don't ask the question: Mad Men Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=126438 In this game, you roll town, and here's your opening post: On August 03 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote: And we're off. This is a 23 player game and I will not be able to handle it if there is a 130 page spamfest between a couple of people before night1. Seriously, condense your god damn posting. That said, there's also a couple of new/newer people on the list. You guys remember to post your thoughts and stuff on the game. No one here bites. On August 03 2012 10:43 prplhz wrote: Last time you did whatever you also had some alignment (presumably). Should we read anything into this? (The answer is: maybe, but probably not) This is my first normal size game in a while 'cause I have a hard time simply reading 300 pages, especially if it's all dumb spam. I don't want this to happen this game. I understand and tolerate that some players have a style that requires them to post more than others but please don't get into yelling contests 'cause we can all agree that those are bad for town. Really bad for town. Do I need to remind you of VisceraEyes vs marvellosity in Normal Mini Mafia II? This is a real town post. Yeah, you get lynched D1 but you start off with not just some general platitudes about posting, you actually encourage the players you don't know to post. You don't ask inane questions. You're fearless, and aren't afraid to vote first (link) and ratchet up the pressure afterwards (link) which may not be the best strat, but is definitely townie. You are bullheaded with your reads and aggressive. You don't prod first then vote, you vote then prod. All this in a game in which admittedly there are people you don't know at all. It's what a townie would do. In iGrok's Mini http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=126438 you had to replace in, and this was your opening post: On June 16 2012 02:37 prplhz wrote: Hey After Liar Game I decided never to join another invite game. I simply feel outclassed because I'm simply outclassed. But then you guys needed a replacement and chaoser already had a 2 page filter and it was [M][N] so I thought what the hell. This means that I'm just going to post whatever I feel like and if some (or all) of it is dumb then you can just kiss my derriere. chaoser had a 2 page filter and he was vanilla townie. If you look hard enough then you should be able to see that. It's going to take a while before I can get a 2 page filter and expecting me to appear hyper townie on day1 (well, my day1) is pretty silly. Think we're at night 2 so I should have a good 48 hours to read the thread and form some reads. Expect anything more from me and you're going to be disappointed. If you really feel that chaoser was scum then I can only tell you to read his filter again or be wrong. Obviously some of this was necessitated by replacing in for a lurking townie N1. But what's your followup? How does a town prplhz charge into a difficult game? Why, he votes first (link) and provides evidence and support later (link) (link) (link) This covers just about everything going back through July, with one notable exception: You rolled scum in Normal Mini II and proceeded to play a highly worthless scumgame http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=126438 consisting mostly of votes and one-liners. I hope we'd lynch you for anything like this, but this is the one game that doesn't fit into this meta-analysis of your play this game, so I thought I'd bring it up. Scum prplhz doesn't ALWAYS ask inane questions / take baseless positions-- once, he voted randomly and only posted one-liners. Still, I think the evidence is clear: prplhz as scum likes to ask dumb questions and take stances that don't reveal any scumhunting, and prplhz as town is aggressive with his vote and follows it up with questioning, rather than carefully prodding first. Town prplhz is fearless and not afraid to die to prove his point. He's not cautious. He's also not present this game. This is scum prplhz. Scum prplhz does vague prodding like he has in this game (link) and unhelpful questioning (his entire filter lol) Also, from a purely analytical perspective, this isn't what a townie does. As a townie, yes, you ask questions, but you ask questions that are reasonable and that force people to respond in ways that reveal their scumminess. When you ask someone a question, you do it to pressure them and to get information. You do it for the town. Town prplhz would NOT ask this question: On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: hey guys please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? Because Town ANYBODY would not ask that question. Numerous people answered it instantly (and also noted that prplhz already knew the answer himself) and it looked, at first, like it was a discussion-generator. It's not. Randomly regurgitating what games someone has replaced into isn't discussion. Prplhz isn't discussing things. He's just slapping shit in the thread and hoping we let him skate by. He's husslin us. No more husslin. ##vote: prplhz come at me bro | ||
Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote: I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv. ##vote: prplhz Blazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence? + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote: Hai gais! Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P Not worth looking into until after we lynch Prplhz and flip town. Associative tells between unflipped players on D1 is dumb. Hapa is scummy or not scummy on the merits of his own posting, not how he interacts with Prplhz-- until of course, Prplhz flips. On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote: Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: hey guys please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? Not a contradiction. Prplhz posts images like this as town all the time even when exhorting people not to be spammy. Hell, I do it all the time. He's not scummy cause of his image post. That's not scummy at all. He's scummy because he's playing like scum prplhz and he's not hunting scum, and he's trying to look like a contributor when in fact he is not. On September 18 2012 07:00 Hapahauli wrote: @ BlazingHand Sample size ftw. You list a grand total of TWO town games to compare his opening lines against, one of which is a replacement game. I highly doubt his first post is indicative of his alignment. That being said, it's usually pretty easy to tell if he's scum no? As you said in your own post, he's often very disinterested as mafia, and plays very differently as town. You're an idiot if you think that I accuse him of being disinterested as mafia. He did that in one game. In the other games, he prods and does literally what he's doing this game. Read my damn case before you decide you have an opinion. | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote: ... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize? If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 07:06 Hapahauli wrote: @ BH Read your "damn case." If you want to make a meta-case based on a couple of his posts, go riiiiiiiight ahead. I personally find it worthless without more context. You took the first posts of two of his town games to compare against, one of which was a replacement game. That reads confirmation bias up the butt. The fact of the matter is, as town prplhz is aggressive, throws his vote around, and is fearless, and in like 4 scum games he is the opposite. Sorry, is 4 scum games not enough to convince you to vote him? That's fine! Show me some counter-evidence! If you think he's genuinely town, you have 2 options to move my vote off him. 1) show me my case is wrong (rather than just poking at it ineffectually). I've seen you do this as town so I know you can. 2) present a better case. If it's really a bad D1 case like you said, you should be able to do better. Do it. I'll vote who-ever is the scummiest in the thread and lynch scum. Right now, that's prplhz, and you have utterly failed to convince me otherwise. | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote: <3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia. I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Elaborate. Now. | ||
Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 07:14 Hapahauli wrote: Sample. Size. It's been... what... an hour? If "townie" prplhz is aggressive, fearless, throws his vote around, you need much more than a half-page of filter to figure that out. Maybe you have some sick meta read on him or something, but I sure as hell can't see it in that case. I'll propose a lynch candidate as the day gets underway. It may be prplhz, who knows, but it sure as hell won't be based on his first-posting tendencies. Hell you can probably find my first-posting tendencies as town/mafia that won't be indicative at all of my alignment. I'm sure as hell I could do the same for anyone here. I'm much more interested in overall mentality and behavior rather than some silly meta-pattern. Prplhz mentality and behavior is that of a dude who is prodding and asking inane questions to which he already knows the answer. This rings alarm bells for me, and it's the reason I did some research into his meta in the first place. You're welcome to dismiss the meta, but the fact of the matter is he has done no scumhunting and has tried to appear active when in fact he is asking questions which do not apply pressure and to which he already knows the answer. | ||
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On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote: @Blazinghand: It's great to finally play with you . But didn't you say something along these lines in your scumhunting guide?: Why would you place so much weight on a "meta"-read based off the way someone's opened up playing a game, when you consider such a strategy generally weak? I consider a small sampling of games like that to hardly be "conclusive" that prplhlz would only behave as he has here as scum. However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior. Present me as scummier target and I'll gladly vote him. Feel free to dismiss the meta elements of the case if meta isn't to your taste, but you do admit (and props for that) that in addition to playing his scum meta, prplhz is also objectively playing like scum. On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote: On Policy Discussion: As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling. I'd like to briefly discuss policy here: If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere. If you can't find someone who you feel has a decent chance of flipping scum after 48 hours in this game, you should leave and never come back. If you want to do a policy lynch later on, propose it and I'll evaluate it on its merits. I reserve the right to vote for who I want, when I want, for the reasons I want. I also reserve the right to tell you you're awful for not having a scumread. | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote: Elaboration on the first half - + Show Spoiler + On July 15 2012 00:43 austinmcc wrote: Here's something to consider as well, but I don't know that it matters much. Matt posts that he's going to sheep marv. Matt never sheeps marv. Okay, that's just dumb but not really scummy. But... Nobody else seemed concerned about this. I'm guessing nobody knows why I asked this? Take a look at marv's last 5 town games: MTG unthemed mini (both played) - D1 marv votes Mouldy Jeb (town), D2 pushes zealos (scum) bang bang (mattchew didn't play) - D1 marv suspects RoL (town), shoots Gonzaw (cop) movie star (both played) - D1 marv votes Zentor (town), D2 marv votes mattchew (scum), and N2 shoots VE (town) LVI (both played) - D1 marv votes foxtrotter (town), N1 shoots drwiggl3s (town) NMMII (mattchew didn't play)- D1 marv votes drwiggl3s (town), N1 shoots MsZontar (town) Recent games, Marv is 0/5 on D1. 0/3 on vigi shots. 2/4 on D2 reads. Mattchew PLAYED in three of those games, so he's seen this. No offense marv, you know I agreed on a chunk of those reads and pushed some of those players, but your D1 reads, empirically, aren't good for sheeping. I didn't post that summary yesterday because matt didn't look like a lynch candidate and I thought that, if it did anything, it would just derail thread, because nobody was talking about matt really. Plus, it's not quite ... scummy? It shows he's not paying full attention, not really having solid reasoning, but it's not outright scummy to be wrong about marv's D1 reads being better than gonzaw. However, it gave me pause. Something to think about. Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here. The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying | ||
Blazinghand
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Yes, you have successfully posted a link to prplhz' filter in Mad Men. Would you like a cookie? A gold star? It must have been a lot of effort for you, and you really made yourself clear. | ||
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scum could you go in the scum QT and ask him to come back and post plz | ||
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On September 18 2012 08:37 HiroPro wrote: Explain to me where exactly prplhz had an opportunity in the game to display behavior like this. And while you're at it, show me what the difference is between prplhz's first three posts in Mad Men and his posts so far. Because I don't see anything. Lol you're about as useful as a sack of hammers in a screwdriver factory. I'll deal with your question, though, since I can't just assume everyone here is on my level. Prplhz MAKES opportunities for himself. He atttacks players and votes without long explanations. That's what he does as town. Take a look at his vote on glasse, which you literally have quoted there. Glasse has like no posts in that game and has barely been active, and Prplhz starts foaming at the mouth and going at him. Or, well, not foaming at the mouth, but at least he votes someone. Prplhz uses his vote to get information. He could have easily done that this game before my case, and super easily done it after my case when people starting flipping out left and right on both sides. Crap man did you even read this thread? Are you even paying attention to this game? Even if somehow prplhz lost the ability to attack people with minimal provocation, in the 2 hours since I've posted my case there's been a flurry of activity, and he had an opportunity to be aggressive there quite easily. So yeah basically you're talking out your ass. Nice try though. | ||
Blazinghand
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On August 03 2012 03:12 Glasse wrote: This could mean rape, rape can end up with a kill sometimes... and it may happen during the night. This guy is mafia let's lynch him. On August 03 2012 12:13 Glasse wrote: That could be kinda unfair for those like me who has no clue about mad men. I have no clue who the fuck roger sterling is and what it could imply. So the time was changed to 9pm, so i guess it's day until saturday at 9pm? On August 03 2012 12:13 Glasse wrote: That could be kinda unfair for those like me who has no clue about mad men. I have no clue who the fuck roger sterling is and what it could imply. So the time was changed to 9pm, so i guess it's day until saturday at 9pm? On August 03 2012 22:27 Glasse wrote: If the mason role is as important as some people are saying, calling them out only exposes them to mafia no? On August 03 2012 22:29 Glasse wrote: wherebugsgo might be full of shit, who knows? Clearly prplhz doesn't need some sort of massive "opportunity" to make a case, he just VOTES. That's what he does as town. He's not town this game. Did you even read the filter you linked? Did you even read that game? | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 08:44 Hapahauli wrote: Null - he's made one post, and from what I know of his meta, he's capable of that as town or scum. Hapa is correct. GK should still respond to people's responses to his response, though. | ||
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On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote: I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity. Your guys thoughts? I think you're scum ##unvote ##vote: iamperfection | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote: blah blah blah some analysis blah blah That's better. | ||
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On September 18 2012 08:58 HiroPro wrote: Right but when you made your case, there had only been 1 page of total discussion in the thread. And that's plenty of opportunity to make a case! It was enough opportunity for me, wasn't it? OR should nobody ever post until the first page is filled up by everyone not posting? No, clearly you just hate me because I'm black | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 08:58 HiroPro wrote: Right but when you made your case, there had only been 1 page of total discussion in the thread. And that's plenty of opportunity to make a case! It was enough opportunity for me, wasn't it? OR should nobody ever post until the first page is filled up by everyone not posting? Seriously, though, Prplhz has done more with less. In fact, he has done more, if you check his other posts. This is more town-prplhz-ey imo. | ||
Blazinghand
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On September 18 2012 09:09 goodkarma wrote: @HiroPro: Just to let you know, I very rarely vote early day one. Feel free to consider that a scumtell if you want. But I prefer to give people a chance to post before jumping on them. And as for scumreads, I've already said I find prplhz to be behaving scummy. But I am giving him a chance to explain himself. Iamperfection is another I'm carefully looking at. I don't understand how he can just propose to "random lynch" a good player day one without some kind of justification. And then go into lurk-mode. Both people are already actively being pressured, and all I could contribute are +1 postings, which I'm not going to do. You actually literally just did that. This post I am making right now contains your entire contribution to the thread. Speak up, sonny, I can't hear you so good. | ||
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So yeah get in the thread and play the fiddlesticking game, you signed up for it didn't you | ||
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On September 18 2012 09:26 austinmcc wrote: BH you're high-fiving Hapa. You okay with the speed at which he swapped off me? marv, I'd like your thoughts here as well. Do you feel the same way hapa does about my explanation? You and Hapa are secondary concerns for me. You'd get a high-5 from me, too, if you weren't AFK all the time. Iamperfection seems perfectly happy contributing literally nothing and I will not stand for it. I will would not, could not, in the rain, or in the dark, or on a train, or in a car or a tree. I won't stand for it austinmcc. Not in the town, not in the thread, not in the world and not in my head. He won't be quiet without getting my vote, so it shall be done as it's what I wrote. | ||
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On September 18 2012 09:42 Blazinghand wrote: Oh yeah I agree I just think it's funny, here I'm working on a chart one sec OK obviously this isn't an accurate representation of what you think, since it's more HOW people react that what their reaction is that determines scumminess (ie you could have a weak, well-reasoned reaction or a strong, well-reasoned reaction). The purpose of this chart is that you're framing your critique of these players wrong. The problem isn't that iamperfection reacted too strongly to my case, it's HOW he reacted too strongly. After lurking and being called out for it by me, after I've moved my vote off prplhz, THEN he strongly condemns my case (without really great reasoning) with swear words. This is why iamperfection's reaction is bad. it's not that he strongly disagrees with my case-- after all, you did as well-- it's HOW he agrees. it's phony. | ||
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On September 18 2012 17:26 Ange777 wrote: @Blazinghand: I liked his explanation for the starting post as well but your case was not just based on the starting post but on his lack of activity/scum hunting as well. So why switch off of him? It seems like an easy way to change your vote even though he has not delivered what you were asking from him: scum hunting. A fair point: but the day is young. My vote is a limited resource, and I felt it more valuable at the time to be used on iamperfection (and it certainly did get him moving). If I don't hear anything useful from prplhz by the morning, he'll probably get my vote back. His profoundly unhelpful replies to my vote and comments so far put him on par with prplhz in terms of "not contributing to scumhunting efforts", especially given the activity of both players in the thread. So, currently I consider iamperfection a scummier and more important lynch target, but by no means have I absolved prplhz. He's taken some steps in the right direction but currently only doesn't have my vote by the grace of iamperfection's astounding play so far. I'm not trying to hedge here, but at the time I moved my vote over to iamperfection it was necessary due to his low post count to get him to start playing, and I stand by that action and the subsequent results. In any case, Hapa has been stirring up a few vats since I've been gone, so I'm gonna go over the exchange between him and Zephirdd. I do recall Hapa playing actively as scum so don't let that fool you, one way or the other. | ||
Blazinghand
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Zeph Zeph, I get why you're all up in Hapa's ass regarding his reaction to iamperfection. You'll note, however, that I also reacted similarly to iamperfection's BS (though not right away). I recently put a vote on him, just quoting his sole post. What's your reasoning for not applying the Zephirdd rule to me as well? On September 18 2012 13:40 Zephirdd wrote: tbh hapa, there is very little that would change my mind coming from you. Far be it from me to tell a guy not to tunnel but on its face this is a bad statement. Sticking dogmatically to it will only hinder us. Here's how you can tell you're getting tunnel vision: On September 18 2012 13:52 Hapahauli wrote: And again, you misread the shit out of my posts. I said a post by IamP "over the top AND scummy" , not "over-the-top scummy." Whatever scumminess Hapa may or may not have, you're clearly misrepresenting what he said, either willingly or willfully. Let's take a look at Hapa's original post that we're addressing: On September 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote: "you case on prplhz is shit. a fucking meta case on 1 post come on." Seems very unnecessarily critical/harsh/attacking. Like I don't think his case is good either, but that's just over the top and scummy imo. It's immediately obvious that Hapa is saying "this is scummy because it is over the top", not "the scumminess level of this is over the top" to anyone who reads it objectively. Either you're grasping at straws for your case or your willfully trying to deceive us. I actually don't believe you're trying to deceive us, Zephir, because a deception of this level is utterly retarded and although you have your shortcomings as a player, being differently abled mentally is not one of them. The misinterpretation is an honest mistake/misreading, making this a null-tell, not a scum-tell as Hapa makes it. No player in his right mind, scum OR town, would straight-up lie TO Hapa about what he wrote. Zephirdd, if you want to be useful to town, take a step back and write a DECENT case on your top scumread (I guess Hapa). There *is* stuff to write about, but don't just assume literally everything he does is scummy and proceed from there. It makes your cases asinine and as likely to hit town as scum. Hapa Currently, Hapa is not on my scum radar. Let me explain this. Most of Zephirdd's case against him is fluff and slander, and for whatever reason, Zeph you've pissed him off enough to vote you (Hapa should be smarter than that) as a result. On September 18 2012 12:06 Hapahauli wrote: Ya know what I will pursue it. Why are you lying? Why are you blatantly misrepresenting my actions from my filter? ##Unvote ##Vote Zephirdd This to me is unsettling, but not scummy. I think Hapa should be smarter than this as town, and it turns out, yes, he is: On September 18 2012 13:55 Hapahauli wrote: But this is my cue to ignore you for the rest of the game. It looks like you're misreading the shit out of my posts and that doesn't necessarily make you scummy. It's equally likely that you're bad town. Null for now, and back to mementoss. Looking forward to hearing from Ange777 and bluelightz who have not yet posted. ##Unvote ##Vote mementoss The misreading of the posts and the misrepresentation don't necessarily make more sense from a scum perspective than from a town perspective. Hapa backing off here and switching onto mementoss is something a town player would do, because a town player recognizes the possibility of townies make mistakes. I'm not a fan of the mementoss wagon, but this move by Hapa is why I suspect the two of you are probably townies butting heads for no real reason. I'm not gonna start handing out townie hall passes, I'm just saying that two people disagreeing doesn't mean 1 town 1 scum situation. Zeph, harken back to GSL Open and think about your interaction with Marv that game, and see if there are some similarities here. And you know what? Maybe it's not like that, maybe Hapa is scum, but if that's the case, don't make shitty case, make a real one. You've failed to convince me. In any case, I see a town with a small number of highly active players who are naturally interacting and butting heads, and a couple more quiet players who either haven't started posting yet (bluelightz) or have started and are underposting (HiroPro, GK, Austin, Ange) either due to just getting into the thread or being quiet. And then there's prplhz and iamperf, who are my two scumreads. | ||
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Note: I swear to god Bluelightz if you try to lurk through a game that I'm playing in I will bring down the wrath of Athena upon you. The fact that your utter and total silence isn't a scumtell due to your crappy town meta should be an impetus to change, not an excuse to never post. | ||
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On September 18 2012 23:27 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm in class XD Posting when I have a bit of time. ಠ_ಠ ##unvote ##vote mkfuba07 | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:38 Zephirdd wrote: Huh. Missed page 15. K got an idea. Palmar, blazinghand, hapahauli. Your opinions on prplhz? Ange777, your opinion on marv? Marv and prplhz, your opinion on mmtoss and austin? These are important to make some sense here. You can ask stuff to me too. prplhz scummy. haven't you been reading my filter he's done precious little to convince me of his towniness since my original case on him, and despite voting has provided no explanations (which I suppose falls somewhat in line with his town meta, but typically he doesn't dick around for long periods of time before his vote) | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:42 Zephirdd wrote: Ok. is your vote on mkfuba a "wtf why aren't you posting more" vote? I'd like to have a better reason for my mkfuba vote, but I tried to find his filter and couldn't, because it was far, far too tiny to find. Until he posts more I see no reason not to vote for him at all. Do you really think anyone will be able to formulate a read on this guy D2? He's obviously not gonna get shot if he's town since he's useful as a grave robber in a crematorium, which is the PERFECT excuse for scum to stay alive and not allow reads to get generated on him. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:48 Zephirdd wrote: True. Do you think it's worth more to kill mkfuba now than say, prplhz(your top scum read)? Or is it a game of chances or something? Hm, that's a really good question. I suppose you're right-- prplhz is more clearly scum so I should be focusing on getting him lynched. I'm gonna break with every rule and advice I've ever followed or given, though, and continue with this vote on mkfuba. The reason is simple. His play pisses me off (logically, not emotionally) and I refuse to let it go by. I will NOT allow him to live, I will NOT allow his tactics, his choices to be a viable scum strategy. This isn't a policy lynch, this is a matter of principle. He will not skate by. I'll take what you said about prplhz to heart, though. I'm gonna think about it and reread prplhz filter for a bit. Perhaps I should be voting him. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:53 Hapahauli wrote: Wait what? You think prplhz is more clearly scum, but you want to lynch mkfuba because of "principle?" Yes. That's literally what I'm saying. I also want to lynch mkfuba because I think he may be a bigger threat to town as the game goes on, since nobody will have a read on him. | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:58 Zephirdd wrote: How about the whole "hey can anyone tell me what X is like? hey can you do what I should have been doing?" or the whole lurkish style of his play? ugh I'm about to back into prplhz again =_=' I want to see him answering stuff first tho Don't hold your breath. People keep on saying he hasn't had a chance to respond or whatever but honestly we're like 24 hours in. How far does your benefit of the doubt extend? >.> | ||
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On September 19 2012 05:59 Zephirdd wrote: I disagree with it. While a mkfuba lynch would be useful for town atmosphere, he isn't exactly disruptive. Besides, there is always the possibility of a vig shot. On September 19 2012 05:59 Zephirdd wrote: and finally, his lynch provides nearly zero information This is a reasonable retort, and probably the only retorts (or thoughts, even) possible on the mkfuba case. I doubt anyone else will be able to add anything new. Think about what that says about mkfuba though that this is all that can be said in his defense or offense. That this is all we know about him, and all we plan to know about him. I think the strongest case you could make to defend mkfuba is that he's a good vigi shot. And that's reasonable. I forgot that we had vigi possibility in the setup. In that case, I'd be willing to lynching him D2, then, and lynching prplhz today. ##unvote ##vote: prplhz | ||
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On September 19 2012 06:00 Hapahauli wrote: The fact that you think you have a compelling case against prplhz and aren't perusing it really bothers me, especially since mkfuba's lurkiness can be attributed to any alignment given sets of contexts. How do you know this? you a mind reader bro | ||
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do you still stand by this? On September 19 2012 05:21 Zephirdd wrote: Also goddamnit prplhz is being useful right now. Gotta think a bit and reread. ##unvote | ||
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On September 19 2012 07:20 mkfuba07 wrote: Oh, and Mementoss, would you like my to try to explain why my first post was as... limited as it was? I haven't yet simply because it's really not all that enlightening, and my explanation is unlikely to convince you of anything. But if you'd like an explanation I'm willing to give one. Jesus christ man just spit it out | ||
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On September 19 2012 07:21 Mementoss wrote: No I don't particularly care, now that your here your future posts will give me more insight to your alignment. I dunno it seems to be more worthless blathering so far I assume at some point he will be trying to do stuff but maybe that's too much to assume | ||
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On September 19 2012 13:39 Zephirdd wrote: Well, no reason not to i guess. I am just waiting for prplhz's response on the marv thing. Lets see what happens on the next hours, but you can count on me for the lynch if necessary and nothing changes my mind. Fair enough. | ||
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Palmar ( 1 ) HiroPro prplhz ( 6 ) Mementoss, Zephirdd, Bluelightz, Marv, Ange, BH Zephirdd ( 1 ) iamperfection iamperfection ( 1 ) Zephirdd Marv ( 3 ) Palm, Prplhz, Hapa austinmcc ( 1 ) Mkfuba austinmcc have yet to vote! With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Currently, nobody is set to be lynched. In particular, I'd like to call out the following players for having pants on their heads: HiroPro you've been about as useful as a trapdoor on a lifeboat. Your filter, short as it is, includes literally no thoughts on Marv and your thoughts on prplhz are minimal and constrained to incoherent questions and statements about my case on him. The closest you get to making a read on him is this post which is about as crappy as the rest of your filter. I demand you take stances on both of these players, provide reads (rather than just asking inane questions) and reasons for the reads before the flip happens. Anything less than that is hurting town. iamperfection I don't like the fact that your vote is on Zephirdd because you haven't made a good case for him. Do you really think you're getting him lynched, or are you trying to find an excuse to not take a real stance D1? The stuff you brought out about the misrepresentations you're talking about are a shitty move as town or scum, do you really think he'd lie TO HAPA about what Hapa wrote? Like who the hell would do that, town OR scum, and not think Hapa would notice it? Zephirdd may well be scum but he's not scum for the reasons you've got here. Either write a bleeding purple-headed case or move to a candidate you can write one for. And is this really the most you're going to say about Marv after the random vote you put on him? I'm not saying "oh perfection is scum" cause I don't even know what to think about you any more. Go be useful instead of being a damn turd. Come on dude. Concrete thoughts on the two main wagons. Mkfuba. Dude. DUDE. On September 19 2012 13:12 mkfuba07 wrote: What the fuck? Like, what in the literal penis-inside-vagina fuck? How can you be so self-aware of playing like shitty dick and AT THE SAME TIME, IN THE SAME BREATH, DO A VOTE WITHOUT A REAL CASE? Like, I get it, austinmcc hasn't contributed, but that's not why people are up his ass. What about his reaction to the prplhz case? What about his subsequent defense and explanation? Did you actually read his filter or did you pull a lurker vote out of your ass? If you're gonna throw away your vote on a non-wagon, AT LEAST EXPLAIN YOURSELF. The other two did thatIm aware that just about everything I'm about to say can be applied to myself as well as him, but at this moment he's the only one I would feel confident with a vote on. He hasn't given any reads, hasn't pushed anyone at all, and I don't see anything that has come from his posts so far. Overall he's not playing in a very townie manner. He has, admittedly, been more active than me. However, if you look at our contributions, they're about the same (and just about non-existent). | ||
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I don't even know what to say about you three other than that if you really are town, if your mothers were reading this mafia game they'd be crying because she'd raised a useless townie | ||
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On September 19 2012 18:13 Palmar wrote: The point is marv was really, really not doing jack shit in the game until I actually came in and called him out on it. He seems to have really changed things up. He even changed his entire attitude to be more badass. If you don't believe me, read his filter before, and after this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16286762 If true this alone is reason enough to vote for Marv. A town Marv would never change his posting style because Palmar called him on it. He might try to add more content or something but changing his style is never something he'd do, not even for Palmar. Town marv doesn't care about style, he cares about results. It's something a scum Marv would do in response to being called on it, though. Reading. | ||
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Hypothetical Palmar wrote: because prplhz is town | ||
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So I don't agree entirely with the "Marv changed his tone" portion of the case, which to me is one of the biggest factors. There's some merit to it, though. He definitely displayed some badass attitude in his early posts in the game here. However, there was a big ramp-up after Palmar's initial attack with some (faked?) anger and general badass attempts. Also note a complete cessation on his metacommentary (examples here and here) after the attack. Barring the period between voting Palmar and unvoting Palmar and voting prplhz, though, he's been pretty similar (though he's reverted to his normal spammier style of play despite what he said earlier). The Palmar vote and subsequent un-marv-like aggression is not, to me, a scumtell. The remainder of the case concerns Marv's level of contribution and specific posts with him. His post about the divided town is bad and un-townmarv-like. His post telling Palmar to piss off is dumb but not scummy. It falls into the "possibly angry" time as well... but it is uncharacteristic. His post demanding a scum motivation for his OMGUS is dumb, and would be null except Marv isn't that dumb. Very scummy. The sheeping quote doesn't mean anything to me. Before this, I didn't know what to make of Marv. Now I think of him as scummy. Also, his interaction with prplhz when he gets mad feels very ungenuine. I did some serious thinking before I wrote this post. I don't like lynching active players D1. I really don't like lynching Marv D1 since he often doesn't make it to D2. But more than that, I don't like not lynching scum. I know you've been giving me town props all day today Marv, but I'm afraid I can't reciprocate the feelings. ##unvote ##vote: Marvellosity | ||
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##unvote ##vote prplhz I'm going to bed. I'll be up | ||
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I just refuse to vote for a case I feel so shitty about. Not today. Not today Palmar. | ||
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On September 19 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote: Voting prplhz is a bad idea, and I'm going to switch into hard-defending mode. Have you seen some of the reasoning that people are voting him? Austin sheeped him apathetically. Bluelights sheeped him a looooing time ago. Blazhinghand thinks he's the scummiest player, but has voted for marv and mkfuba in the interim for questionable reasons. MMtoss voted him on Day 1, has discussed several other cases and has barely mentioned prplhz at all since. Ange is the only person who has something resembling reasonable suspicion on prplhz, and even then I highly disagree with it. I'll get to this more after class, but we should really be looking at some of the people on the prplhz wagon. Especially MMtoss. I'm scratching my head here cause this hard defense seems very much like just random discrediting and very little like a refutation of a case or an explanation for why your case is better. This ain't a hard defense at all. I am unconvinced. | ||
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On September 20 2012 01:32 Hapahauli wrote: Where's this? You certainly haven't recently stated that you think prplhz is scum unless I'm missing something. Also, you never perused your read on your top scumread until I pointed it out to you. How you know this? you a mind reader bro man Hapa just trying to read the words you're writing here is terrible. It's like you studied for the SAT but you used a shitty book and now you don't know what you're saying. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:05 marvellosity wrote: Could you be a little more constructive rather than your two offhand remarks about austin and prplhz you've done so far today? I assume you're talking about this calendar day rather than this game day, to which I respond: I have only just woken up. Let me refer you to the previous calendar day, about 10 hours ago, when I was in in which I have done a great deal to pressure and attack numerous players and try to get the lurkers in this town moving, in addition to reaffirming my faith in the prplhz case. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:07 prplhz wrote: Two best town players in this game (Palmar and Hapahauli) think I'm town and I'm pretty sure they're not both scum (I would be very surprised if even one of them was) and that they have their god damn reasons. Hapa has bad reasons and Palmar has never shared them with us, if you can present me with a better case and/or defend yourself adequately I will move my vote. On September 20 2012 03:07 prplhz wrote: Additionally, just that huge fucking text wall is something you can't see in any of my god damn scum games. ... You're not really this dumb, right? You think this is an argument that has literally any merit at all? On September 20 2012 03:07 prplhz wrote: There are a couple of you who are seriously dumb for voting me and then there's the rest who are just sheeping. Please dont' overwhelm me with compliments. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:09 iamperfection wrote: What should he have said nothing at all? stfu. I'm amazed you've invested one of your precious few posts telling me to shut up this game. What prplhz should really have done is be scumhunting all day, rather than posting a massive text-wall defense 3 hours from the deadline. This should be pretty obviously what someone would do if they wanted to help town. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:08 prplhz wrote: Hey Blazinghand who do we lynch when we're not lynching me today because I'm town? Yes, this is a serious question and you should answer it, I don't even give a shit about any reasoning right now just a name and a couple of lines if you're in a generous mood. If it was clear to me I couldn't get a majority on you (and it seems it could head way, given the amount of jubjubs jumping ship on this case) my other lynch targets are mkfuba, iamperfection, and marvellosity. That being said, I should probably read into mementoss since people seem to be voting him, but nothing he did D1 jumped out to me as scummy on the first read-through. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote: Blazing, could you throw me a read on austin + mementoss? I'll do mementoss first. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:16 iamperfection wrote: No it looks like to me know that you must have some kind of extra informatioN.? Because ut seems like to me you just created a situation where there is no possibslity that prplhz is town. I didn't create that situation: prplhz did, as he played through this D1. | ||
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Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy: 1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. Overall, I think the exchange between these two shows Hapa grasping for non-reasons to vote for Mementoss, which is rather un-Hapa-like. Watching Hapa kick around a weaker player like this, one who isn't immediately scummy (though he has a worryingly low post count) slightly lowers my opinion of Hapa but does not change my read on Mementoss. Overall, Hapa, your case on Mementoss is old and unconvincing. | ||
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austinmcc ( 2 ) Marvellosity, mkfuba07 marvellosity ( 2 ) Palmar, prplhz Hapa ( 1 ) HiroPro prplhz ( 5 ) Ange777, blazinghand, bluelightz, Mementoss, Zephirdd Zephirdd ( 1 ) iamperfection Mementoss (2) Austinmcc, Hapahauli Presently, no one is set to be lynched! 2.5 hours remain in Day 1 ! All you idiots who are jumping off the Prplhz wagon to do shit like vote for Hapa and other bad wagons are... well, you're idiots for doing that. Look, we've got like 2.5 hours left to get 7 votes onto someone. That someone should be prplhz, and if you think prplhz is scummy and your vote isn't on him, you're saying "I'd rather no-lynch than vote for scummy prplhz". Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons. I'll take a look at autinmcc now. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:42 marvellosity wrote: That's a pretty big pile of bullshit right there, BH. Not as big a pile of bullshit as no-lynching, which is currently what's gonna happen. There's like 4 people in thread and 2 of us already have votes on prplhz. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote: If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party. | ||
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Overall, austinmcc started off posting like shit and has gotten his crap together a little bit at the end here. His large text-walls shouldn't cause you to assume anything though-- nothing he says still makes any sense. I'm willing to lynch him, but I'd prefer prplhz. I'd also be more comfortable lynching him than Marv or any of the other non-prplhz major candidates. | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote: To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play. For what it's worth I currently have no intentions to vote you. I'm voting prplhz: he's my top scumread. He has never contributed and continues to adamantly refuse to do so. In the event it's literally impossible to lynch prplhz, I'll entertain an austinmcc lynch. I view no-lynching as the worst possible thing here. On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote: prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie. I think prplhz stupidity (feigned or otherwise) isn't an inherent scum or town-tell, simply because he could easily fake it. It's not something that helps his arguments and it gives him a crutch for taking and defending bad positions, which certainly doesn't look scummy on its face. Is our assumption really that prplhz is just not getting what we're saying? I don't interpret that on its own to be a scumtell, but I disagree that it's a townie thing. I think it's just a "prplhz either doesn't understand or is feigning not to, or perhaps even is scum and doesn't understand". | ||
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On September 20 2012 03:56 austinmcc wrote: Yes. I'm entirely serious. I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy. But then you bring up the 2 votes vs 5 situation, which is why I think you may or may not be shitting me. If prplhz isn't happening and there's only 2 votes on mementoss, why the hell would I ever switch to him? He's not even my second-highest scumread and like nobody thinks he's scum. | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:01 austinmcc wrote: I have too much fun with setup speculation, paranoia, and odd plans to just afk as scum. If I ever actually roll scum, I'll end up getting caught doing something, rather than being absent and having 2 retarded posts. Marv is right: this is literally meaningless. Like... GUGH. I can't even respond to you. What makes you think it's even worth typing this sentence? | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:00 Ange777 wrote: Ok, a few things: This post by Palmar actually made me reconsider my null/town read on marv. Because it is true, no matter how you put it you really shouldn't care so much about being accused if you are town. Defending yourself excessively or raging is not an option to show your fellow players your town side. You can only prove yourself by actual scum-hunting. I'm a bit more unsure about marv but am still leaning towards a null/slightly scummier read. Nonetheless I still think that the case Palmar made on marv is weak. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 18:13 Palmar wrote: This is why marvellosity is scum: Possibly a joke, I wasn't in the game when this was written so I don't know how the mood was in the thread. The random lynch suggestion, while strange, bears no meaning to his alignment. This is important: When I joined the game marv had made exactly one post worth reading. It was a long-winded post but it had very little substance to it, at least for someone I would consider a good player. He basically rehashed the reasons why a case against hapahauli was bad (duh) and then proceeded to vote for a lurker. The point is marv was really, really not doing jack shit in the game until I actually came in and called him out on it. He seems to have really changed things up. He even changed his entire attitude to be more badass. If you don't believe me, read his filter before, and after this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16286762 What I take from this post is that marv for some reason has a problem with me not following whatever trends are already happening in town. The bad thing about replacing in is that you miss a ton of important reactional stuff, the good thing is that you start with a completely unbiased point of view. I decided to post as I read through what had already happened in the game. So, marv's problem is essentially that I had my own point of view. Did you think I wouldn't tell people what I thought about other people in the game? Should I just not call out my reads because they "mess with an already divided town"? It's a real problem when you're actively encouraging people to not read the thread objectively. Unless of course you're scum. There is a marked difference between giving townreads for the hell of it, and giving town reads because it's applicable to give townreads. You already know that I hate it when people do the stupid "don't give your town reads" shit. That's not how the game works, if it did you could just OMGUS every time and say "no scum would do that". I take your OMGUS as having almost nothing to do with your alignment, I take your attempt at using it to make you look like town based on that, as very, very indicative of you being scum. Weak sheeping from a seasoned player can absolutely be null. It's all got to do with how they sheep and why. Not the face-value of just sheeping. We need to kill marv today. Just for effect/emphasis ##Vote marvellosity I have already stated that I don't get the feeling that marv's posting has changed a lot after the Palmar/marv discussion. And claiming that marv was discouraging you from giving your scum reads is a huge stretch. All he asked for was an explanation for your reads, you are totally misrepresenting the facts! And by the way, I too am unsatisfied with the way you are presenting your reads. I have asked for explanations over and over again and you have been ignoring them over and over again. Would you mind to elaborate your thought process? Why is it that people are praising your play when all I have encountered is a very unhelpful Palmar not willing to share his reasonings? How is that town-friendly? I agree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him. @Hapa: So you are saying that because people are sheeping the prplhz case he has to be town? We haven't once had the majority to lynch him because there has been new cases all the time distracting from prplhz. You claim that you see a town player who is being open with his suspicions? Well, if that was the case, why wouldn't he just state his reservations against the marv lynch? Furthermore, except for the weak case on marv, there has been no scum-hunting at all. On to prplhz' defense: On September 20 2012 02:59 prplhz wrote: I'm already hating it. Why is Ange777 quoting my very first post, some would even argue the very first post of the game and then calling it fluff? That's grasping for any little fucking thing you can find and it makes you look desperate. This doesn't have a lot to do with your case, it's a bad argument but meh, I just don't understand why people write big dumb text wall PBPA and then include every little dumb thing. Do you seriously think that this post is clearly more scummy than townie? No you don't because allegedly you have brain so use it. I started to dislike your play because I saw similarities from your play last time to your play this time. Being contradicted that your filter in this game has been vastly different than GLS Open, I just wanted to make clear that the length of a filter is in no way alignment showing due to the fact that it's easy to spam or fluff one's filter. So what if I didn't scum hunt enough for your taste? Tons of other scum hunted less than me because I scum hunted quite a bit, I just mostly found townies which I think is pretty good. Thinking that half the game is >90% sure townies is a pretty good thing for a townie because then he can focus on the baddies. I am giving you my reads you can't expect people to just catch scum. In either case I'm feeling really good about marvellosity and I already told you why and we'll get to that later. It's kind of ironic that you complain about my lack of scum hunting in the same post that you complain about the scum hunting I'm doing. As for how being the center of attention makes it more easy to scum hunt, that might actually be your opinion but I'm spending waaaaaaaaay too much time responding to shit like this instead of scum hunting. I also don't think that knowing your own alignment and how people react to it is necessarily something that makes it easier to scum hunt because you have to evaluate whether or not what you say is townie if you are being attacked, and the same thing when other people are being attacked you need to evaluate whether or not what they say is townie. Just look at this massive text wall took me ages to write and I'm not even done because there are at least two other people who have voted me for bad reasons since then. I am not saying that stating town reads is useless. It's just not as helpful as stating scum reads. And it's actually even easier for scum to state concrete town reads, they already know the alignment. And yes of course I am complaining about your lack of scum hunting because I don't think that the case on marv was any good. Are you for real? Let me analyse this argument to expose how utterly ridiculous it is: prplhz is scum and because of that he is lazy. prplhz sees a post and decides that he does not want to read this single post out of the entire game. prplhz decides that the best thing to do is to write a post in the thread about how he's not reading this post. If you don't see how ridiculous this is then I don't know what the fuck. It's wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start holy fuck I gotta move on because I am getting so mad. Okay I calmed down a bit. It's wrong because lazy doesn't mean scum by default and she doesn't argue that it has to mean scum here. Whatever. It's wrong because she's claiming that my lazyness has brought me to not reading this single post, which constitutes I'd say about 0.1% of the thread but whatever. I'd say that lazyness would probably more result in someone skimming the thread and not just skipping stuff. Alright. It is wrong because no scum would think it a good idea to announce in the thread that they're not reading it, when they can just....... not announce it in the thread lol and then read it if they have to or claim that they forgot or whatever the fuck. The scum motivation for this post is infinitesimal compared to how much flak you can instantly catch for admitting not reading the thread. Whatever you guys are dumb if you didn't already realize this. This argument is so irrationally that I don't know what. Anyway, I did read his post I just think that the Kenpachi Rule Extended is bullshit so I was discouraging further use of it. I didn't want Zephirdd to hide behind a dumb rule that I think is a null tell for the entire game (or even for a day). Yes you are right. Lazy does not always mean scum. But why wouldn't scum state that? Having so many players venting their (sometimes fake) anger, you could fool someone by saying outrageously that you generally don't read anything related to the Kenpachi/Zeph rule. But this is just one part of my case so let's see your defense for the next accusations. So what? You are grasping for straws and it's looking ridiculous to be honest. If you need to make a case then drop the irrelevant parts or at least put them in a spoiler and mark it "TOTALLY IRRELEVANT". Two posts are useless jokey posts? So what? Again, this was for showing that the a big filter does not necessary mean that you had contributed a lot. I already explained why I don't think so. Palmar was reading up on the thread and posting (some would say spamming) quite a bit, it looked like he was just posting whatever was on his mind while catching up on the thread. It was 20 hours into the game and there were no serious lynch candidates around. Townie Palmar also just says whatever the fuck he wants (I remember a game where he fake claimed day vigilante and threatened another dude who happened to actually be a day vigilante and then he flipped out and shot somebody just because Palmar was buddying with him, pretty hilarious and shows how Palmar plays; he just plays) and we weren't in a situation where we had to focus because we had plenty of time before deadline. Palmar also has really good first impressions and day1 reads. It was all too dumb to say that he was scum because he spoke his mind about what he saw in the thread and there are plenty of reasons for that for someone who is competent as marvellosity is. So that means that I can't expect Palmar to back up his reads with proof or explanation? You are totally missing my point. My point was that marv has every right to ask for an explanation when someone just dumps a read into the thread without any proper reasoning. And that this should not make him scummy. marvellosity can do the OMGUS as town or scum but I consider it more likely that he does it as scum because it's not a town move. The OMGUS served just to make him look bad which is generally not something scum do but it's over the top and dumb when he can just argue. Why is he flipping out like that just because some dude said "u scum m8" instead of keeping his cool? That's just WIFOM. I already mentioned it earlier, yes the raging makes him scummy but that's not enough for me to vote him. And why aren't you commenting at all on your "reservations" against marv? I'll post this stuff now as I am only at page 25 with reading. [/QUOTE] I like what Ange has said here and this deserves to be on the top of a page and not at the bottom. | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:00 Ange777 wrote: Ok, a few things: This post by Palmar actually made me reconsider my null/town read on marv. Because it is true, no matter how you put it you really shouldn't care so much about being accused if you are town. Defending yourself excessively or raging is not an option to show your fellow players your town side. You can only prove yourself by actual scum-hunting. I'm a bit more unsure about marv but am still leaning towards a null/slightly scummier read. Nonetheless I still think that the case Palmar made on marv is weak. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 18:13 Palmar wrote: This is why marvellosity is scum: Possibly a joke, I wasn't in the game when this was written so I don't know how the mood was in the thread. The random lynch suggestion, while strange, bears no meaning to his alignment. This is important: When I joined the game marv had made exactly one post worth reading. It was a long-winded post but it had very little substance to it, at least for someone I would consider a good player. He basically rehashed the reasons why a case against hapahauli was bad (duh) and then proceeded to vote for a lurker. The point is marv was really, really not doing jack shit in the game until I actually came in and called him out on it. He seems to have really changed things up. He even changed his entire attitude to be more badass. If you don't believe me, read his filter before, and after this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16286762 What I take from this post is that marv for some reason has a problem with me not following whatever trends are already happening in town. The bad thing about replacing in is that you miss a ton of important reactional stuff, the good thing is that you start with a completely unbiased point of view. I decided to post as I read through what had already happened in the game. So, marv's problem is essentially that I had my own point of view. Did you think I wouldn't tell people what I thought about other people in the game? Should I just not call out my reads because they "mess with an already divided town"? It's a real problem when you're actively encouraging people to not read the thread objectively. Unless of course you're scum. There is a marked difference between giving townreads for the hell of it, and giving town reads because it's applicable to give townreads. You already know that I hate it when people do the stupid "don't give your town reads" shit. That's not how the game works, if it did you could just OMGUS every time and say "no scum would do that". I take your OMGUS as having almost nothing to do with your alignment, I take your attempt at using it to make you look like town based on that, as very, very indicative of you being scum. Weak sheeping from a seasoned player can absolutely be null. It's all got to do with how they sheep and why. Not the face-value of just sheeping. We need to kill marv today. Just for effect/emphasis ##Vote marvellosity I have already stated that I don't get the feeling that marv's posting has changed a lot after the Palmar/marv discussion. And claiming that marv was discouraging you from giving your scum reads is a huge stretch. All he asked for was an explanation for your reads, you are totally misrepresenting the facts! And by the way, I too am unsatisfied with the way you are presenting your reads. I have asked for explanations over and over again and you have been ignoring them over and over again. Would you mind to elaborate your thought process? Why is it that people are praising your play when all I have encountered is a very unhelpful Palmar not willing to share his reasonings? How is that town-friendly? I agree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him. @Hapa: So you are saying that because people are sheeping the prplhz case he has to be town? We haven't once had the majority to lynch him because there has been new cases all the time distracting from prplhz. You claim that you see a town player who is being open with his suspicions? Well, if that was the case, why wouldn't he just state his reservations against the marv lynch? Furthermore, except for the weak case on marv, there has been no scum-hunting at all. On to prplhz' defense: I started to dislike your play because I saw similarities from your play last time to your play this time. Being contradicted that your filter in this game has been vastly different than GLS Open, I just wanted to make clear that the length of a filter is in no way alignment showing due to the fact that it's easy to spam or fluff one's filter. I am not saying that stating town reads is useless. It's just not as helpful as stating scum reads. And it's actually even easier for scum to state concrete town reads, they already know the alignment. And yes of course I am complaining about your lack of scum hunting because I don't think that the case on marv was any good. Yes you are right. Lazy does not always mean scum. But why wouldn't scum state that? Having so many players venting their (sometimes fake) anger, you could fool someone by saying outrageously that you generally don't read anything related to the Kenpachi/Zeph rule. But this is just one part of my case so let's see your defense for the next accusations. Again, this was for showing that the a big filter does not necessary mean that you had contributed a lot. So that means that I can't expect Palmar to back up his reads with proof or explanation? You are totally missing my point. My point was that marv has every right to ask for an explanation when someone just dumps a read into the thread without any proper reasoning. And that this should not make him scummy. That's just WIFOM. I already mentioned it earlier, yes the raging makes him scummy but that's not enough for me to vote him. And why aren't you commenting at all on your "reservations" against marv? I'll post this stuff now as I am only at page 25 with reading. I like what Ange has said here and this deserves to be on the top of a page and not at the bottom. | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:05 austinmcc wrote: His two voters think he's scum. You called him "scummy." Marv noted some good points in a case on him. Ange was rereading and is currently at: . Palmar is unknown. Bluelightz previously voted him and then unvoted for a reason that looks ridiculous. Moreover, I don't actually see anyone saying "MEMENTOSS IS TOWN." People are actively saying they have townreads on prplhz. NOBODY seems to be doing that with mementoss, correct me if I'm wrong here. If you don't want to mislynch so bad, if that's the worst option, then why is voting for the candidate that everyone finds scummy and nobody is REALLY stepping up to defend (and that you admit has some scummy points, in the only spot you recently discuss him) such a bad course of action in your mind? You clearly didn't read my list of priority lynches, or my actual analysis of Mementoss. Unless there's a serious change in the vote layout, I'm not voting him today, and that's final. | ||
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austinmcc ( 3 ) Marvellosity, mkfuba07, HiroPro marvellosity ( 2 ) Palmar, prplhz prplhz ( 5 ) Ange777, blazinghand, bluelightz, Mementoss, Zephirdd Zephirdd ( 1 ) iamperfection Mementoss (2) Austinmcc, Hapahauli Presently, no one is set to be lynched, because of an alarming headpant epidemic! 1.75 hours remain in Day 1 ! | ||
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austinmcc ( 4 ) Marvellosity, mkfuba07, HiroPro, iamperfection marvellosity ( 2 ) Palmar, prplhz prplhz ( 5 ) Ange777, blazinghand, bluelightz, Mementoss, Zephirdd Mementoss (2) Austinmcc, Hapahauli Presently, no one is set to be lynched, because of an alarming headpant epidemic! 1.75 hours remain in Day 1 ! | ||
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On September 20 2012 04:26 marvellosity wrote: well done for saying absolutely nothing. Stellar play right here. I don't like that Palmar hasn't been in the thread much he hasn't done as much work to support the Marv case as would be necessary to garner my vote. Maybe it's not even possible-- maybe marv is just town. Palm you've got nobody agreeing with you which could be like "oh scum is resisting it" but... really, as Ange said, the lynch that's being resisted is the prplhz lynch. We're close to a majority and close to the deadline and all these wagons have sprung up in the past 24ish hours and nobody wants to push him over the edge. This is much more resistance than a wagon that just can't get off the ground. As I see it, prplhz is scum and austinmcc... is probably scum. Prplhz has more votes and is a better candidate so I'm not moving off him. | ||
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The prplhz lynch has faced resistance at every turn and finally all we need is one more vote. austin. someone. | ||
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prplhz for D1 lynch. he's worthless scum crap. kill him. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:57 Ange777 wrote: So you are confirming Hapa's mason claim? They're both scum, and both tried to fakeclaim to save prplhz at the same time. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:58 Hapahauli wrote: Just wait 2 minutes BH. Just wait. Nice try, but I'm not unvoting, and neither is anyone else unless they want to raise my ire. Prplhz today, you tomorrow. Don't listen to him, this is what scum is saying to try to make us doubt. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:58 prplhz wrote: i can't believe people aren't unvoting in face of mason claim my vigilante claim was a troll jesus christ How interesting that you just so happened to do it without knowing your scumbuddy was going to try to masonclaim to save you at the last minute. No, this was a scumteam communication breakdown and we have this game in the bag. | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:59 prplhz wrote: i lied because i was a troll i really thought you'd unvote when hapa claiemd because mason claim ties people together and of course scum don't mess that up but fuck it you're so dumb i don't know what to do so am i but whatever "if I was scum I wouldn't make this mistake" | ||
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On September 20 2012 05:59 austinmcc wrote: C9++ rolls...2 or 3 scum right? You're saying they either out their ENTIRE team or 2/3 of it to save one? I didn't say it was a good move, but it's what they did. why else would one claim mason with the other and the other claim vig at the same time? | ||
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Well, you can drop the act now. No more vote-changes. | ||
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Well. Hapa, I'm gonna save you some time and pre-emptively apologize for the case on prplhz. I thought it was good, I really did. I think more could have been done to defend him. I think you should have claimed about 12 hours out, but what happened, happened. I'm gonna do some thinking. I'll be back with more thoughts later in the night. Leave questions here. | ||
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:| Well at least you're around until dawn, Hapa. I take back what I said about lynching you D2, naturally. My plans tonight include a rereading of D1 and posting of cases. If you want to someone to bounce ideas off of I'll be on and off for the next several hours. | ||
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On September 20 2012 10:26 Bluelightz wrote: GOD DAMN prplhz/ -_-. Reading up on any accusations or shit (like questions D well Bluelightz I got a question for you regarding your thought process near the end of D1. You made this post: On September 19 2012 00:07 Bluelightz wrote: Memen: Aren't you just deflecting pressure onto mkfuba? If you want to answer like that at least explain to me why it's the same, oh and answer my question. Mementoss made this post about 20 minutes later On September 19 2012 00:26 Mementoss wrote: Read the thread I answered your questions. And please take off scum shaded glasses everytime you talk to me, I'm not deflecting pressure onto mkfuba, I'm getting verification from Marv, why he is biased towards one lurker over the other. >>SNIP<< and you reacted like this, unvoting him and moving your vote onto prplhz. On September 19 2012 00:55 Bluelightz wrote: Ah, Memen, I see. Good explanation. ##Unvote: Mementoss ##Vote: prplhz If he doesn't step up his contributions (so do I), I think I'll keep my vote on him. I'll go into more detail on this tomorrow as I have to sleep. I'm not sure I see the same good explanation you do. You also mentioned if he didn't step up his contributions, you'll keep your vote on him. I know it's quite early right now in Indonesia but when you have the chance, I'd like to know what exactly about his explanation was good and convinced you you should move your vote. It's worth noting he actually said very little in the passage addressed to you, though he had a bit talking to mkfuba afterwards. Was his reference to previous posts enough to convince you? now that the lynch has taken place, what is this "more detail" you were going to go into on Mementoss? Please elaborate. | ||
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Of course he doesn't seem to be on hand for questioning at the moment. Now that I'm up I'll reread D1 and drop down some thoughts. let me know if you got any questions for me. | ||
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try reading the rest of the post and the post after it. Basically, If Palmar had been putting in full Palmar effort in the case, it'd be a town-tell. Since his case and his defense of prplhz are not, it is not. | ||
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On September 21 2012 00:16 marvellosity wrote: Bingo!! | ||
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On September 21 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote: Your point on Palmar's vote or lack thereof is really strong, Hapa. On BL: yes, it's easy to do analyses on BL going "wtf" but you need to be able to explain how it's different from how he normally plays town :/ This | ||
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Iamperfection is active and aggressive enough that I no longer consider him a top scumread. I've seen him play poorly before as town so this is reasonable to say. My current list of people I'll be pressuring going into D1 if I'm alive (which I probably will be, unless something weird happens): HiroPro Mkfuba07 Ange777 Palmar The first two because they're scum, the second two because they should be good scumhunters, better than they are this game Also marv like ange and plam peace | ||
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Town played quite well, but I can't believe you guys were always up on Bluelightz' ass. Bluelightz gonna Bluelightz. | ||
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On September 27 2012 07:53 marvellosity wrote: I got all up on his ass so I could try to confirm the town read on him that I had, which is what occurred. I never wanted to lynch him despite what I threatened. Quite reasonable. Bluelightz can be very illegible at times. | ||
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