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@ Marv
As you keep banging on about him, I decided to go back for myself at Normal Mini Mafia II.
And the large problem I came across is that he was quite the opposite there. In fact I was somewhat shocked to see how involved he 'seemed'. If you want me to dig up examples I will, but I think his 'tunnelyness' here is more akin to, say GSL where he basically stuck on vader for two days, than NMM2, where he was on drwiggles, VE, Sinensis, and with other interactions besides.
What say you?
I really disagree with your assessment on his GSL play. Look at his read progression on Vaderseven:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=7#134
First mention (V7 = null). In this post he also asks a question to Drikzor and declares Zeph as a scum read. You notice how willing he is to read out to other happenings in the thread, and not just mention his #1 scumread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=15#295
Opens saying that he things Kei is town.
Then thinks that you (marv) is slightly scummy
Then declares Zeph town
Then declares V7 null
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925¤tpage=16#309
Votes V7, split between risen/V7
I don't know about you, but there's a huuuuuuge difference in mentality I'm seeing here. Look how willing he is to comment on other people in the thread. BL even declares his old scumread town (something he hasn't done with mementoss yet).
Then look at BL this game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=9#179
Large mementoss case.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=12#240
Tunnels mementoss, then drops him. Votes prplzh. does not declare mementoss town, null, or anything
More tunneling of prplzh... and that's it. No other interactions. No townie reads. No null reads. No nothing.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
You're ignoring my characterisation of his scumplay in NMM2, though, which is more pertinent.
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@ Austin
Thanks. That's interesting, I'll think about it some.
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Hapa, mull this post over along with the timing. I think this is much more likely to be a genuine misunderstanding, but it's her response to iam when asked about her actions around the deadline. I found the answer she gave interesting.
On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfection: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour.
When asked about what was going through her head at deadline, she discusses iam's ninja vote 2 minutes before deadline.
We know she was in thread because she posted with 3 minutes to go asking prplhz that question. With 2 minutes to go she picks up on iamperfection's vote --> watching thread. But then nothing, and either misinterprets or dodges the question from iam here.
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On September 21 2012 08:55 marvellosity wrote:
You're ignoring my characterisation of his scumplay in NMM2, though, which is more pertinent.
Well just wanted to clarify that he wasn't "stuck on v7 for two days" on D1 in GSL. He reached out to the thread a lot more.
As for NMMII, what makes me hesitant to use his meta there is the fact it was a game 2 months ago. However, in that game as well, he's very reluctant to give townie reads. Also, this is the post that really got me making connections with his play in this game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058¤tpage=27#532
In NMMII, he makes a similar "overkill" case against Sinesis when a bunch of players already have votes on him. Overall, his play in this game (particularly the prplzh case) and NMMII makes me think that he's forcing reads. Townie BL has no problem sheeping someone without a giant overkill case.
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On September 21 2012 09:01 austinmcc wrote:Hapa, mull this post over along with the timing. I think this is much more likely to be a genuine misunderstanding, but it's her response to iam when asked about her actions around the deadline. I found the answer she gave interesting. Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfection: On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour. When asked about what was going through her head at deadline, she discusses iam's ninja vote 2 minutes before deadline. We know she was in thread because she posted with 3 minutes to go asking prplhz that question. With 2 minutes to go she picks up on iamperfection's vote --> watching thread. But then nothing, and either misinterprets or dodges the question from iam here.
I saw this as well i think ange. would have much easiier time explaining her thinking if she was town. Like i said before i think all the other town member should have had red flares going up when they saw a botched claim like. Maybe im being unreasonable but i think her post there was more of pushing of an agenda instead of just explaining her thought process.
I would have expected her to say something along the lines of i was confused or something along the lines of i didnt know wtf was going on.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long.
The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with
Case
I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there.
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and just so im being clear im fine with lynch of blue or ange
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On September 21 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote:
Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long.
The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with
Case
I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there.
"Overkill" in the sense that it was unnecessary. It's not like his case against prplzh was long either - it was just completely unnecessary considering the town atmosphere. There was a lot of suspicion on prplzh well in the open and posted by several players.
Instead of just voting for prplzh/sinensis, he made it a point to really "justify" his vote and lay out is rationale by summarizing a bunch of other points against his target.
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On September 21 2012 09:24 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote:
Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long.
The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with
Case
I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there. "Overkill" in the sense that it was unnecessary. It's not like his case against prplzh was long either - it was just completely unnecessary considering the town atmosphere. There was a lot of suspicion on prplzh well in the open and posted by several players. Instead of just voting for prplzh/sinensis, he made it a point to really "justify" his vote and lay out is rationale by summarizing a bunch of other points against his target.
is there a reason we can just ask bluelightz to explain his actions or would it be likely that he aint gonna give an answer regardless of his alignment?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On September 21 2012 09:24 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote:
Why do you say it was overkill? It wasn't that long.
The one thing I noticed, actually, was that he opened both the Sinensis and prplhz cases here up with
Case
I find that kinda interesting. But obviously it's not very strong. Quickly browsing through GSL/NMM3 I don't see him doing that there. "Overkill" in the sense that it was unnecessary. It's not like his case against prplzh was long either - it was just completely unnecessary considering the town atmosphere. There was a lot of suspicion on prplzh well in the open and posted by several players. Instead of just voting for prplzh/sinensis, he made it a point to really "justify" his vote and lay out is rationale by summarizing a bunch of other points against his target.
yeah, i don't see a problem in rationalising your vote, but I do see where you're coming from. Hmm. I am still musing on this "case" thing though. I wonder if it's like he subconsciously needs to announce that's what it is, whereas he doesn't in townie games. Or if I'm completely making a mountain out of a molehill.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
We can iamp, but as me and Hapa happen to be here (and you too) we're bashing stuff out and seeing if we can arrive anywhere with it.
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@ austin
I think it's a scumslip actually. This is the main thing I'm focusing on:
On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting
After the fail-claim, Ange is convinced that prplzh and I are scum.
Her second post just doesn't make sense with this mentality.
On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfection: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz".
The fail-claim re-enforcing her read on prplzh should be fresh in her mind. Yet she doesn't even consider that iamperfection switched his vote for that reason. Instead, we get a giant diatribe on voting "responsibility."
It should be really clear to "town Ange" why iamperfection switched his vote. Iamperfection switched after the fail-claim, and there's no reason that Ange should be suspicious of him.
Nice catch Austin.
##Unvote Bluelightz
##Vote Ange777
Note, I still have my eye on Bluelightz
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[b]## Vote Ange77[b]
I happily join you.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
I'm so behind, I hadn't even got on to considering austin's posts yet :<
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@ Marv
Am I off base here? Whaddy'a think? Ange's a good player, and this seems especially egregious for someone who is very logical.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
no, I mean I literally had been talking to you and looking at Bluelightz's past games and shit, so i was putting austin's posts aside for a moment.
I'll have a proper look myself; obviously I'd had some niggles as I asked you that question about her interactions with iamp a little earlier.
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On September 20 2012 06:44 Ange777 wrote:
I'll read fuba tomorrow. Off to bed now.
she also never gave her read on fuba like she said she was going to do but i guess thats mute at this point.
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EPT
