I think Ange777 is scum for a couple reasons.
On September 18 2012 16:34 Ange777 wrote:Good morning guys!  Catching up now ...
The smilely face opener, looking to look innocent, consistent with Ange777 scum meta. Probably won't make sense to any of you but I co-hosted Ange777 first game which she was scum and she opened similar, obviously she played a lot different otherwise cause didnt understand the game as much.
Analysis here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332805¤tpage=27#539
The amount of people calling Ange777 town for effort in day 1 is ridiculous. You can put in as much effort as scum as town. And I don't see Ange really doing that much to be honest. Mostly all of her filter is questions. Asking questions is good, but town motivation for asking questions is to make a follow up read and assessment of the answer, scum motivation for asking questions is because 1) its easy 2) it shows your reading the thread and 3) you can incriminate other people with the proper use of a question.
No point in me quoting it, but look through the filter, there is more questions than actual analysis or statements. So Ange is really just posting the questions without using the questions to further the analysis.
Here is anges first display of scum hunting, the first attempt of the prphlz case:
On September 19 2012 04:37 Ange777 wrote:@prplhz: Where is your scum hunting? You have failed to give a reason as for why you'd like to lynch me. + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 01:08 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 00:22 Palmar wrote:
prplhz you useless sack of shit, get in thread.
Do you want to kill marv? austin? Hiro? give me something. I don't really know. Contrary to popular beliefs, being the centre of attention for a little while doesn't entail a plentitude of scum reads. I guess I want to kill Ange777 but I don't really know why. The day is young though. I'm curious about your austinmcc read I felt that this post was pretty townie it seems like he's putting some thought into the game about my alignment. What you think? You seem to be pretty sure of him being scum and I was too until that post so I'm wondering what changed my mind but didn't change yours. You have shut down any discussion regarding Palmar's alignment. On September 19 2012 01:23 prplhz wrote:
HiroPro we're not lynching Palmar on day1 on anything other than a scum claim end of story. I'm sure you can see why so find something else to do with your time. You have given another wonderful green townie list. On September 19 2012 02:16 prplhz wrote:
Okay guys, I'm going to post a townie list! Green for emphasis!
prplhz
Blazinghand
Palmar
iamperfection
Hapahauli
Mementoss
Gonna go read more filters. And you have successfully jumped on marv's bandwaggon. On September 19 2012 02:26 prplhz wrote:
hapa too good
##Vote marvellosity Which by the way seems to be based on a ridiculous reason. He had his suspicions about Hiro because of the lack of content not because of suspicious content. So what's wrong with considering Hiro's statement? Instead of finding scum by yourself you have others do the work for you. That's scum motivation. ##Vote: prplhz
1st point is a soft form of OMGUS. You voted me? No explanation? Its not townie like, but no where angie explains why it makes him scum.
2nd point not wanting to lynch palmar day 1 is a pretty common opinion, but for some reason it makes prplhz scum. Again no explanation of scum motives.
3rd point townie list, no explanation why she thinks its scumm
4th point voting marv, no explanation why she thinks its scummy again.
This is the only indication ange thinks prplhz is scum, Instead of finding scum by yourself you have others do the work for you. That's scum motivation. But its not really a thought out or extended explanation and again it was said by a lot of people earlier.
So overall, she took a target who was already under heat and summed up what everyone in the thread already pointed out, but never explained why she thought it was scummy.
Ange's second attempt at finding scum. But wait, its the same.... guy. What. She's basically shovelling the same shit over again. What is the point of doing this as town? Who are you trying to convince really? Prplhz was already the leader by 3 votes at this point, and you aren't bringing anything new to the table. The only motivation of doing this seems to me is scum motivation. Again, easy to fucking write up, trying to hard push the mislynch and no one will say anything because its the popular wagon atm, she doesn't want to have to make bad ties with anyone else this early in the game. Its fucking safe. She knows prplhz is going to get lynched, she doesn't want to make a case on someone else and stand out and possibly piss them off so they make another case on her. There is no reason to remake the case again on the leader of votes as town. There are 2-3 scum or a SK in this game, try hunting elsewhere, bring up new people.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 20:28 Ange777 wrote:prplhz
I still want to lynch prplhz. Despite his recent contributions (giving us his town reads and making a case on marv), I am convinced that he is scum. Yes, he has 2 pages of filter within 1 day cycle which is unlike his scum play in GSL Open. But let's have a closer look at the posts he has made in these 2 pages: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
hey guys
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read
there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? Starting post fluff. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:15 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 06:11 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote:
please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read I know mkfuba replaced into LVII. A useless fact accompanied by an unrelated quote. I hope you're going to try to be more easy to understand from now on so chumps like me can follow your thought process too. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:28 prplhz wrote:
their*
So I am lying or what? I mean, I am not lying unless you think I am perfectly aware who mkfuba07 is yet claims not to be, is that the case?
Maybe you can actually explain to me who he is instead of coming up with a silly list that's readily available to me as well if I just go into his profile. I can do that on my own thank you very much. Complains about people who try to give him information about mkfuba07. Sometimes we get to catch a glimpse of his "scum-hunting" or "prodding": Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:33 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 06:32 iamperfection wrote:
I randomly suggest a lynch of Marvelosity.
Your guys thoughts? I think that's a pretty shabby idea. Why do you want to lynch randomly and how did you decide randomly upon marvellosity? Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:47 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? And how exactly do you know whether it was random or not? After being called out by several players for his lack of contribution he defends himself: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 08:37 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, you literally stopped posting when I posted the case on you, so there's that. Yea I had just queue a game of DotA2 when you posted it and then I decided that I would rather see how it other people reacted before shooting it down. I don't really get the first argument. You are saying that my first posts are similar in my scum games, this doesn't make me scum. Then you argue that the first posts themselves have a distinct scummy agenda which is very disputable but more importantly, do you really think that any scum feel the need to push any agenda in their first post? I think that my first post is townie, I think that for all of those scum games you posted. At least the content is townie. Not everything scum posts is scummy. As for the "He's not quick to vote", no that's right, I didn't vote yet during the first 30 minutes of the game. I think it's a very thin argument that I should be scum because of that. I think I like to play both styles styles of "aggressive" and "careful and prodding" as town, I guess it all depends on what mood I am in. Anyway, I think your case on me looks townie and with everything else you've posted I'm pretty confident that you're town.
austinmcc, I thought this guy looked really scummy up until this post. It's especially his explanation of that single word "OBVIOUS" that seems very townie to me. It looks like he really thought carefully about my alignment and didn't consider covering his own ass or anything like that. I like that. Townie for now. Mementoss is a little harder. I think he just voted me because I posted a dumb picture and corrected his grammar. That can be really antagonizing I hate when people do that to me when I make a dumb little mistake. Overall I've got a townie feeling about him. marvellosity is pretty shabby for now. Show me some of that "thinky" that you promised before the game. We also need everybody else to join the game and post some more. The defense in itself is perfectly fine but what lacks is again an effort in scum-hunting. This is the first time that prplhz comments on other players and gives us a read. While town reads are definitely useful in the process of elimination, a clear scum read is far more preferable and accurate. And yes, being the center of attention does not naturally leave you with tons of scum reads but there must be players which have acted suspiciously. Being up for a lynch yourself will always be an easier situation to judge the people making the cases on you as you know your alignment. Judging players accusing other players has 2 unknown quantities and therefore getting a good scum read out of it should be more difficult.Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. Nice excuse for not reading the thread. Why wouldn't someone read the thread closely? Bullshit is not always just bullshit, it can have town motivation or scum motivation. Is it because you are scum and already know the alignments?There are a lot of useless posts in his filter like: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 08:58 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 08:58 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote:
blah blah blah some analysis blah blah That's better. You are too kind. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 20:58 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 20:53 marvellosity wrote:On September 18 2012 20:33 prplhz wrote:
Disclaimer: I don't read any analysis that refer to the "Zephirdd Rule" also known as the "Kenpachi Rule Extended" because I think it's bullshit.
Anyway, HapaHauli is playing active and townie and I have no interest in lynching him today. Ange777 is looking terrible though.
@Ange777 Have you been scum at any point and can you direct me to one of those games?
List of people who suck: Bluelightz, marvellosity. Agreed, I've not done anything yet. Something decent to come when I get a decent chunk of time today. Ange listed her entire history last game in GSL Open. Do your own research you lazy sod, especially when it was given to you just one bloody game ago. Funny how you forget so quickly. funny how you think i read that game Now let's get to the part where he actually decides to contribute by making cases: Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote:On September 19 2012 05:38 Zephirdd wrote:
Huh. Missed page 15. K got an idea.
Palmar, blazinghand, hapahauli. Your opinions on prplhz?
Ange777, your opinion on marv?
Marv and prplhz, your opinion on mmtoss and austin?
These are important to make some sense here. You can ask stuff to me too. I think that Mementoss is town. I skimmed a few of his previous games (they're all conveniently in his profile and that's pretty nifty I gotta say) and I think his play looks a lot more like his town play than his scum play. Would not lynch. I thought austinmcc looked scummy but I think that his explanation for the "TOO OBVIOUS" thing looked pretty townie and I liked it a lot so I'm null/town on him. On September 19 2012 05:58 Zephirdd wrote:On September 19 2012 05:55 Hapahauli wrote:On September 19 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:
I'm amazed you think weak sheeping from a seasoned player is a null tell, hapa. Seasoned players vote like that all the time, and I have yet to connect a mafia-mentality with prplhz. How about the whole "hey can anyone tell me what X is like? hey can you do what I should have been doing?" or the whole lurkish style of his play? ugh I'm about to back into prplhz again =_=' I want to see him answering stuff first tho I'm not a big spammer. Asking what people generally think of someone is just something to talk about. It was very literally 3 posts into the game and the two posts before that were not exactly something I could get any content out of.
I don't think I'm sheeping Palmar on marvellosity (and I don't think that really matters anyway but some people seem to make a big deal out of it). The reason I am voting marvellosity is that while he said he'd post less and be more thinky this doesn't excuse him from contributing and probably in a comparable way to how he usually plays. He wants to refine his play and maybe cut out some of the "fk u" posts that's great but people don't change their play to be more scummy because that's just dumb. I don't think his decreased activity has been offset by the increased thinkitivity and that unsettles me. The thing that pushed me over the edge with marvellosity was what I mentioned here (and you'll notice that this was before Palmar commented on it). I don't think that town marvellosity would find HiroPro's argument convincing at all. This befuddled me a bit because I'm a slow thinker and admittedly, seeing that a towny looking Palmar saw the same thing as me made me feel more strongly about it. Actually so strongly about it that I voted marvellosity. I don't think that marvellosity has started looking better since then, actually he is looking pretty bad. The straight up OMGUS is something I imagine a scum marvellosity to be capable of so I have to consider, is it a townie move or not? No it's not, the straight up OMGUS was a stupid move. I have no idea why marvellosity is so upset but I think it's because he has been figured out. I dont' see any townie motivation for it at all and how he's tried to explain it so far (Palmar should know better) doesn't convince me. Actually, if marvellosity really thinks that Palmar should know better then why doesn't he think that Palmar is scum and vote him? Instead he's going for an arguably easier day1 target in me. I have some small reservations with the marvellosity lynch that I can tell you about later but for now he's my top candidate. So here we have his explanation on why he wants to lynch marv. Basically I see 3 points: 1) Marv promised more thinky posts while posting less in general. But while he definitely has been a more lurky marv than usual he has not fulfilled his promise for thinky posts. While I have to agree that we have not seen much of the new thinky-style marv, it's not like he wasn't to be seen at all. Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:On September 18 2012 10:50 Zephirdd wrote:On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote:
... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize?
If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss How does he defend prplhz? "Oh it's just bad play. hey maybe we should look at these two other players instead". A town player can never know if another player is just playing badly. A scum player, however, always does.I've done that countless times as scum. Dismissing a case on a townie by saying he isn't playing optimally, but not considering the fact that it could be a scum play. "The people most willing to jump on BH's case" are people who just agreed with a case that was just built early on. The thing about strong cases(I say BH had a strong case at that point) is that when you are scum and you recognize a case as a strong one, you will try to defend that townie in order to gain cred post-flip. The earlier you do it, the better, and if he is never lynched that townie will at least like you for a while. Hapahauli's main argument against BH's case is the sample size, where BH basically covered three months worth of games. Meta is not a productive argument when you go much farther back(I'd argue that three months was too much), and he says BH would need more research to have a good case. BH has pretty much echoed my thoughts on Zephirdd's case on Hapahauli. It's not good at all and as pointed out by Hapa himself contains multiple misrepresentations (over the top/scummy kept coming up and that's just basic reading comprehension). Further, the part of the case that I've just quoted makes almost no sense to me whatsoever. In the quote Zeph provides, where does Hapa say that prplhz is playing badly? He's saying he didn't like BH's case. A town player can very well know when another player is playing badly. For example, Zephirdd, you are playing badly whether you are town or scum. The entire case is built on stretches and misrepresentations. I would also like to talk about the retarded 'Zephirdd rule'. Let's break it down in essence - the first time someone says something stupid/bad/scummy, the first person to jump on it is scum. What does this actually mean? Town is supposed to let the first dumbass comment slide and only comment on the SECOND person being a dumbass/scummy? The whole rule basically proposes that the first person to be bad should be left untouched. I also think that he's using this rule as an excuse to make a case without actually having to think about what's gone on in the thread properly. He's spotted something that adheres to his 'rule' and has then fabricated the rest of the case out of nothing.
Shame goodkarma is replacing out. His first post was scummy as hell. Not the general wishywashyness/not voting, but the fact that he was willing to talk about policy/trolling. I'm going to be keeping a close eye on his replacement. Look at this: On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote:
However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior.
On Policy Discussion:
As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling.
I'd like to briefly discuss policy here:
If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere. The thread has already generated a scumread for GK, but for some reason he's derailing into policy discussion. Look at what he says - policy discussion is far more productive than the direction this game has gone. But look at how this game has gone. This might be the most productive Day 1 I've ever seen. Why is he complaining about it?
As per usual I don't get BL's case on Mementoss. It looks like he's posting a load of unalignment indicative things and going "look! scum!". I'm pretty nullish on Mementoss right now.
With the high activity of some portions of the town, I think there's gonna be at least 1 scum sitting back and enjoying the show. At the moment this leaves me with mfkuba, Ange777, and HiroPro. I know fuba from outside of TL Mafia and at the moment I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see if he posts more. Ange just seems to be getting involved in the discussion, so fine. At the moment I'm looking at HiroPro. Distinctly from the other two, he's actually been around posting, except what he's been posting is minimal and effortless. He voted for goodkarma but with barely an elaboration (I elaborated more above and that was just in passing). Other than that, he's posted a few times, but actually done nothing at all. ##Vote: HiroPro This is a well written and unlike the usual one-liner marv post with a lot of thinking. Yes, there haven't been other posts like this one following it up but soon afterwards was the Palmar/Marv war, it's only reasonable to assume that during a heated discussion you won't write text-wall posts. I am still hoping for the thinky-marv to pop up again now that he seems to have calmed down again but for now, I can't take this argument as a scum indicator. If this continues to go on after day 1 I will reconsider this point again but not now. prplhz' other arguments for scum marv: 2) Town marv would never be convinced by HiroPro's argument. + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 01:11 HiroPro wrote:
Look at goodkarma's posts and what I've already said about him.
Look at the voting in the thread. We have like 6 or 7 candidates each with one vote. That's a recipe for town disaster. And then look at what Palmar comes in and does - he throws three completely new candidates into the mix and doesn't give any real reason for them being scum. He's not trying to actually lead town onto a successful lynch, he's just trying to cause chaos.
Why not? I don't like Palmar's style of just giving away all his reads without any single explanation other than to take his word for it. (But apparentely no one else is annoyed by this fact besides me.) I am perfectly fine with discussing new lynch targets but I need to know why someone proposes them to be lynched.3) The OMGUS vote was due to scum marv being caught. I really dislike OMGUS votes. Because they can be basically everything from town motivated to scum motivated or just plain stupid. And the other problem is you usually can't prove it, the OMGUS voter can simply hide behind the OMGUS motivation. Yes, the OMGUS vote makes marv scummy but it is not enough to convince me into lynching him. This following part makes me really wonder why people are not suspicious of prplhz: Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 06:54 prplhz wrote:
I have some small reservations with the marvellosity lynch that I can tell you about later but for now he's my top candidate. So when is it "later"? How do you want to convince us into lynching your allegedly top scum read when you yourself have reservations you are not willing to share with us? prplhz' two pages filter contains a lot of fluff and useless stuff. He has not made much effort in scum-hunting, just some occasionally prodding. He gives himself excuses for not reading the thread closely. His case on marv is really weak. And he is already back-paddling from said case. Scum.I will probably check Palmar's filter once more later, furthermore I want to know where the lurkers like austin, Bluelightz, mkfuba07 and HiroPro have gone. Stop lurking and get in the game. [
I could go over each point again but read this case and tell me it seems like ange is trying hard to find scum or just pulling posts out of the filter and making commentary. Honestly if you spun this exact case the right way, it could be made against half the people in the game. Its not about scum motivation or scummy behaviour again, its based on what ange sees as non town like behaviour, or I wouldnt play like this as town behaviour. Pointing out things like fluff and town reads is all find and dandy, but why does it make him scum.
"I agree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him."
I found this pretty ironic, as 75% of anges filter is questions, and barely any are used to be analysed or actually assessed. They are just for the sake of being active and being townie. Town usually has a purpose in their mind behind the questions, scum already knows the answers and questions for them are just to look townie.
On September 20 2012 04:39 Ange777 wrote:
Can someone please link me to the latest case against austin? If I remember correctly marv started the case but retracted part of it due to the recent improved posting of austin.
This is pretty ironic as well, as anges whole case on prplhz is that he is too lazy to hunt scum himself and is trying to get people to do the work for him.
On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote:
Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin.
SNIP
Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post?
Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum.
This defense on austin is very weird and stuck out to me as soon as I read it. Just because you get more active, doesn't eliminate the fact that you have a post that was scummy. The fact that he posted a poor explanation to start can't make him more townie, it means he wasn't being honest and writing from his mind. He was writing to prove his innocence rather than just state what he was doing. If he couldn't do it the first time it means he had to actively think about his defense, something a town player posting openly wouldn't do. The fact that I think austinmcc is still scummy isn't helping out ange at all. This poor logic and jumble of words defending austin is really scummy to me. It feels forced.
Marv also pointed this out and anges second explanation is just as logically flawed as the first.
On September 20 2012 05:40 Ange777 wrote:@iamperfectino: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:23 iamperfection wrote:On September 20 2012 05:16 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 05:14 iamperfection wrote:
Raise your hand if you are here Explain your vote if you are here On September 20 2012 04:51 Ange777 wrote:On September 20 2012 04:47 iamperfection wrote:On September 20 2012 04:38 marvellosity wrote:
sounds like some epic phone posting gone wrong You know me to well. I meant to say it is reasonable for me to follow my town reads because they are usually right So you are not voting austin because you think he is scummy but because you hope that your town reads found scum? I did you didn't like the explanation. And I'm starting to not like my explanation What's this? @marv: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 05:30 marvellosity wrote:On September 20 2012 05:15 Ange777 wrote:Okay, so I am trying to understand this case against austin. On September 19 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:austin: yeah, I think I most of all want to lynch austin. Some of it's gonna be a rehash, but it's important for the whole thing. The reason people jumped on austin in the first place: On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Pretty much generally agreed that this was scummy, so won't delve too much. Where shit starts to diverge is on the response, which people read as townie. There's important time issues to look at. BlazingHand first pushes him to elaborate on it, and we get this as a response: On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote:On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote:
If mafia would like to keep hypothetical townie-marv alive to the endgame because of my "policy lynch," then awesome! Mission accomplished! Though in all seriousness, I've read through quite a few of his recent games. He never lives as town past N3 (barring Mad Men Mafia where he was a replacement) in his recent games. If he's alive a long time, there's a very high chance (IMO basically guaranteed chance) of him flipping red.
<3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia.
On September 18 2012 06:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey pudding-munchers stop arguing about that and read my case I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Elaborate. Now. Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here. Pudding blabla not satisfactory at all. His 'townie' explanation that follows only comes after me, Hapa, and BH apply further considerable pressure.On September 18 2012 08:03 austinmcc wrote:On September 18 2012 07:21 Blazinghand wrote:
The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying
On September 18 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:
austin, you're not playing with grush.
speak plainly or die like a little bitch. It's not that it's too scummy to be town. Because the part of your post that I key in on is that prplhz, in two other scum games, and in none of the games he's played as town (out of what you reference), opens in a similar manner. I think you are stretching when you say that the questions are scummy. Yes he can go look the guy up. Yes, he might ought to at least remember that the guy played in a game he hosted. But it's not like...asking a question about who someone is is scummy on its face. There's no scumhunting heuristic for "opens games asking questions about a particular player." It MAY be scummy as applied to prplhz, but it's not like every player who opens like that is probably scum. So then . . . working off that. If it's not scummy on its face, but might be scummy to prplhz, why? There's no objective pushed there, it's not like starting off a game with that post helps a mafia objective. If prplhz is scum and happens to start all his scum games this way, it's just something he does without knowing it. There's no objective pushed. Then finally, if starting games that way as scum is just something prplhz does without knowing it, not to push an objective, then . . . it's almost null? Not getting there in the same way "small sample size" gets there. The train of thought is... (1) This is a thing that prplhz has done in scum games (2) This is a thing that does not further mafia objectives, or actively DO anything really (3) Therefore, it's likely he's just doing it subconsciously (4) If he's doing it subconsciously, then it's not really a tell. Could argue that he only does it subconsciously as scum, but then you get the sample size discussion and there's no real proof either way. So obvious was really the wrong word choice, when I fully go through this. It's not a bad explanation as it goes, and I can see why people viewed it as townie. But the fact is that it only came after his previous, poor explanation. In other words, he had to give a good explanation because he knew a large part of town was hounding him for it. In this context, I believe it loses some of its 'townieness'. I bold the final line as well for a reason. Obvious was the wrong word choice, eh? Look at how austin usually posts - longwinded, carefully thought out. Yet in this instance he'd thrown out his 'obvious' and 'too damning'. It looks like austin is justifying his scummy words after the fact. austin has a few posts subsequently, but they are all focused on his own defence rather than any other scumhunting. Why is he so worried about how others view his defence? Why is he only talking about his own defence rather than being proactive elsewhere? Because he's worried that he needs to appear as town. After these posts, austin has been markedly absent from any of the considerable goings-on in this thread. We don't have an opinion on anyone or anything, except his own defence. His play is marked by being worried by how he appears, rather than finding scum. ##Vote: austinmcc Why does him posting a very poor first explanation before delivering a satisfying reasoning for his behaviour makes him lose "townieness"? Shouldn't the fact that he made such a bad explanation make him more townie as apparentely he was not worried about defending himself when he first made that post? Seeing his recent vastly improved posting (especially his defense and scum-hunting whilst under pressure) I don't think austin is scum. You'll have to explain to me why giving a weak explanation on a weak comment makes him townie, Ange. My train of thought was that he was waffling in his defence to the post, hoping to brush it under the carpet, instead of straight out explaining why he made the vote in the first place. The fact that he needed to be further pressured to clarify his comment makes him lose townieness, because by this point he is forced to make a good explanation or face being lynched. That said, austin's concerns on my company on him are legitimate. iamperfection is giving absolutely no reasoning, and he completely correct that I asked fuba for thoughts on austin, WHO HE IS FUCKNIG VOTING, and he gave me thoughts on Mementoss instead. Arg. My point is that giving a weak explanation fits a town player who should not be scared of being accused as scum. Being town there is no need to write your posts carefully which could lead to a weak first explanation before a satisfying second one. I see your point of view but I don't agree with it.
On September 20 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
Why are you ninja voting iamperfection???
Only scum would say this. Solely Trying to incriminate iamprefection with the question, when the answer was fucking obvious to anyone and everyone. The conflicting claims when one of them was obviously fake. And it wasn't a ninja vote since there is no voting thread and it was in plain sight.
Then there is the trying so hard to be emotional and surprised. Like honestly most of us were surprised, but ange is letting everyone KNOW how surprised she was. Why is this? Cause she already knew the result beforehand.
On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Where is the flip? I wanna get the celebration starting
On September 20 2012 06:03 Ange777 wrote:
Seriously?
On September 20 2012 06:04 Ange777 wrote:
Claiming mason is so easy and you really waited till the last few minutes to do it?
On September 20 2012 06:44 Ange777 wrote:
I'll read fuba tomorrow. Off to bed now.
This isn't much but I think it was obvious that ange77 was going to make another case on the easy player, fuba. Most liekly mashing everything that was already mentioned in the thread all in one neat quote post. CONTRIIBUTINGGG.
On September 21 2012 01:07 Ange777 wrote:Finally people are taking a closer look at Palmar. I don't know about his past achievements of being perhaps a terrific scum hunter but I have not seen anything worthy of being praised like that in this game yet. Unfortunately I won't be in for the deadline, for now my top scum reads are Palmar and iamperfection. @iamperfection: Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 22:57 iamperfection wrote:
also at ange i want to you to explain more on your thought process at the deadline. What was going through your head when the claims came out.
What was going on? I have you marked as a scum read that's what's going on. Why would someone give up his right to vote just to simply sheep another player? Especially sheeping someone you yourself called a terrible townie. There is no town motivatoin for that kind of play. Publicly stating to sheep your town read just gives you an excuse to be wrong with your vote because you were not responsible for it. And suddenly vote switching in the last minutes onto the seemingly scum prplhz whom you had not mentioned again after dismissing Blazinghand's case as being a weak meta case is just something I don't understand. Two possibilities: 1) You are town. You want to make sure prplhz gets lynched. But we already had the majority to lynch him. So why the last minute vote? We discussed prplhz a lot before the end of Day 1 and you did not give your stance on him. 2) You are scum. You wanted to get some town cred for jumping on "scum prplhz". Right now I am leaning to 2 as you still haven't given me a satisfying answer for your voting behaviour.
Finally people are starting to take a closer look at palmar? What is this. People were mentioning palmars posts for a good part of day 1. This sentence is just trying to make yourself look good for mentioning you were "suspecting" palmar at one point.
Ange saying there is no town motivation for iamperfections play is just ridiculous and its actually the opposite. Ange is trying to incriminate him and put together a case against someone she doesn't find dangerous. Someone that won't come back and call her out. Someone that won't attempt to call her on her shit.
Town motivation for switching votes, you thought the claim was fake and ridiculous so you changed your vote to who you thought was scum. Any reasonable town in the thread WOULD make this switch.
Scum motivation for making this switch? There is none, why would scum want to last minute switch onto a townie? Why would scum want to out themselves by doing this? He could have easily pretended not to be in the thread.
TLDR;
1) People calling ange town for effort and contributing, when ange was never in danger, no reason for this.
2) Ange looks like contributing, but actually just 2 cases on the case that was already made, by people in the thread, actually just asking a ton of questions without a purpose behind the questions
3) Cases don't provide reason why actions are scummy. Seems to be targetting the easiest players, the players that won't come back at her and call her scum, prplhz, >mkfuba > iamperfection.
4) Flawed logic towards austinmcc and iamperfection, to try and paint their alignment the way she wants. Austinmcc defense that makes no sense, Aggressive on iamperfection for voting a scummy action and saying its scum motivation when in no way it is.
5) The smiley face opener
6) Go read you lazy fucker
Ange777 the secret it out you are scum
##Vote:Ange777
I also think Austinmcc is still scum, more thoughts on that later hopefully.
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