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Hey guys, I just had the best party ever. Got wasted, got a chick, we all partied all night. Hell, I even danced gangnam style. I'm happy.
On September 10 2012 05:54 Dirkzor wrote:
Zeph plays like he did in PTP3. Where he was scum.
He still got my vote.
I'm not claiming anything stupid so far and I'm actually reading filters and caring enough to create a case on different players.
No, I'm not playing like PTP3.
Why I didn't mention prplhz again? Because he had been inactive as shit, and because I decided Risen was looking worse than him during the day. Besides, it's very well possible I'm wrong on my Kenpachi Rule stuff(hey, it worked out to bring stuff into the thread as well =p), but if prplhz flips red this game somehow I'm pretty sure I won't ever back off that again on another game lol
My biggest reason to suspect Bluelightz is that he changed his instance on me waaaaaaay too quickly without much reasoning. I mean, half of the thread is suspicious of me, so why am I suddenly ultra town?
Keirathi is also doing a pretty good job in outlining how his V7 vote was scummy, when he had very little reasoning for that vote and didn't even give a reason to not vote Risen - when he was already clearly the one guy being lynched at that point.
@marv
I wasn't scum on NMM2. I was scum on PTP and mad men, and I am tired of playing scum yes.
Your reasonings to lynch me only came after people called you out on it, and your reasoning to vote Dirkzor is bullshit because he is bad and you know he is bad and you know he is prone to make a post like he did.
If there is a BoxeR, claim now. Keirathi's claim will be rendered true if there are two BoxeRs, or false if there is only one, and if it's false he is confirmed scum, otherwise he is most likely town. Which is immensely helpful when considering other players reactions.
Finally, I really want Bluelightz dead.
##Vote Bluelightz
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
yeah, not sure where NMM2 came from. Probably the reason I was thinking about it is because you came across clearly townie to me in that game and you have not this game.
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marv, since you are around, can you re-read bluelightz' filter objectivelly without thinking of meta for a moment?
What do you see when you do it?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
objectively he looks pretty bad.
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Holy shit. Marvel is scum. Like, I am not even 100% on bluelightz(up until now, he was my top scum read), but marvellosity is scum. He has to be.
Meta analysis
His filter here, going into day 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925&user=140487
His filter on Death Note Mini Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=140487
His filter on Normal Mini Mafia 3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836&user=140487
Now one could say that when you only sample scum filters, its pretty easy to compare them to a filter and say "they are similar" correct?
His filter on Dwarf Fortress Mini Mafia, where he was town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346&user=140487
Here is what we notice from comparing all these filters.
1. on both Death Note and NMM3, marvellosity shows a distinct lack of care. Short posts, low substance, low amount of reasons. Mostly two-liners and, when they are big posts, they lack meaningful content. I'm pretty terrible at explaining with words, but I ask you all to read his filters from these games, or at least skim by.
2. On DFMM, his first page has two setup-oriented questions and right on the second page of his really short filter(because he dies early), he has a ton of extremely dense and meaningful posts. I just asked him to take a look at Bluelightz objectively, and he showed a distinct laziness to actually analyse it. Here he is defending bluelightz(which shouldn't bear on Bz alignment, but still) without a thought out analysis. He defended Bz on DFMM and even mentions his "meta analysis" here, but he never shows us how bluez' meta is similar to his town meta here, which is a different game than DFMM.
I mean, it's not hard. It's pretty fucking simple in fact.
Look at this now:
On September 10 2012 05:35 marvellosity wrote:
Back to Zeph for a moment, he rolled scum in Mad Men, NMM2, and PTP3... from my perspective it makes sense that he's not able to give this game his all. I know when I've rolled scum a couple of times in succession it drains me. If he's town, I would have expected him to be eager to get stuck into playing town this game.
As I said, I rolled scum on MM and PTP3. He uses here something that applies to himself much more than me. He has a reputation of being good as scum, and he was scum on his past two games just like me(these were DN mini and NMM3 for him). He, however, isn't showing his town self. He is known to die really early because he is a fearsome scumhunter, but here he isn't showing any kind of real pressure on any player to show his fearsome side.
He just rolled scum a couple of times, and he should be eager to get stuck into playing town this game. That's exactly what he said about me, and he is saying that from his own perspective. This marvellosity isn't eager. This marvellosity is lazy, effortless, weak compared to the marv from DFMM who was killed so early, or the marvellosities that caused big fights with VE on other recent games.
Summarizing, he just straight up contradicted himself on his own perspective. That's a really unconscious part of him talking, and it's perfectly natural that even "him" would be taken by it.
and also, the most unconscious slip:
On September 10 2012 09:17 marvellosity wrote:
yeah, not sure where NMM2 came from. Probably the reason I was thinking about it is because you came across clearly townie to me in that game and you have not this game.
I know why he thought about NMM2. That's because he was scum on NMM3. I'm not kidding, a human brain fucks us up just like that.
And finally:
On September 09 2012 20:48 marvellosity wrote:##Vote: Dirkzorstraight omgus BL is just an awful player and i'm not sure he's ballsy enough to pull this off as scum. Dirkzor, however, should know better than to spout this nonsense. You kill one of the strongest players because he survives ONE NIGHT? No. Various options as to why I survived: 1) I am scum. Simple enough. 2) Scum considered Ange more dangerous than me at this stage of the game 3) Scum feared a medic prot on me 4) Scum saw BL talking this stupid nonsense and decided not to kill me (if BL isn't scum himself) 5) Something I didn't think of at this point
Town marvellosity isn't this bad. He had a scum read on me and threw a vote on the worst person to get a vote, which is Dirkzor. Dirkzor, the one guy known for having convoluted logic. The one guy that is more mislynched as town than marv is shot as town. town marvellosity does not straight OMGUS'es without an essay worth of reasons. This is a lazy post that allows him to have a vote parked somewhere and to make him look like he is contributing.
Everyone, read his filters and take an objective look at his play this game until now.
##unvote
##Vote marvellosity
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
nice try zeph
keep squirming
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marv, if that is all you are going to say, that's the worst possible defense. Not only you showed that you are active and alive here, you are also showing a complete lack of interest in scumhunting, in showing how I am a real scum(I don't even know the case on me, iirc it was that I said risen was town early?) nor in thinking ahead and finding possible connections between me(supposed scum) and other players.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
one scum at a time, sweetie, and you're it.
your whole case was either WIFOM or creating some mystical narrative that doesn't exist. There's very little for me to say about it.
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@Zeph: before my head explodes from trying to figure out marv, maybe you can explain this for me:
On September 10 2012 09:06 Zephirdd wrote:
If there is a BoxeR, claim now. Keirathi's claim will be rendered true if there are two BoxeRs, or false if there is only one, and if it's false he is confirmed scum, otherwise he is most likely town. Which is immensely helpful when considering other players reactions.
The logic doesn't really make sense. Even if there are two BoxeRs, if one of them thought I was scum, couldn't they just refuse to claim and therefor by your logic, I would be an instant-lynch?
Also, I was RB'd, so the scum knows that its either setup A, or setup D. If a BoxeR claims today, then scum knows that its setup D, and that they don't have to worry about a cop or doc at all. And here you are, wanting a BoxeR to claim to confirm me as scum.
Something about that doesn't sit right.
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EBWOP:And here you are, wanting a BoxeR to claim to confirm me as scum, or if two BoxeR's, to call me townie.
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Incredibly enough, My thoughts on the boxer thing is that, No matter what happens, any amount of boxer claims, Even if only one claims, Should help us find scum in incredibly easy manner. Trust me on this one. i'm Eager to see what you will thing of marv, because i think his play has been incredibly Anti-town this game.
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going to sleep, I want everyone reflecting on my post earlier. Seriously, you can take these filters side-by-side and decide which one looks more like marv from here.
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I'm working on my reply to you, but its taking a while to go back through all of his filters and context for his posts.
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About marv:
I'll give you that his lack of cases is disconcerting (which I already pointed out to him, but he didn't respond), and reading back through DFMM, I didn't realize just how much less information he has been forthcoming with in this game compared to that one (IE, he had large posts explaining his thought process/rationale/opinions on the major cases). Also, he dropped his case on me extremely easily (pressure vote?), and mildly buddied me.
However, like I also mentioned, he does have a few posts that feel distinctly townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16154605 for one. As scum, why wouldn't he just let it ride that my post said I felt like he was distancing himself from the Risen wagon by unvoting?
Also, his interactions with Risen feel different than his interactions with his "scum reads" in NMM3 and DN. Here, he was pretty "bulldog"-y. Like he was trying to keep Risen posting so that he could feel Risen out. In NMM3 and DN, he was using his arguments to convince everyone else, rather than starting a shouting match to convince himself.
Conclusion: I'm always extremely paranoid of marv. He's certainly good enough as scum to be scary, and generally is more open and forthcoming about his reasoning as town. I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on how to read him though. I've spent a huge amount of time talking with him on IRC about strategy, past games, how he plays, how I play, etc etc. I feel like I have a decent idea of how he thinks, but the converse side of that is that he has a decent grasp on how I think as well, and is certainly smart enough to potentially use that to manipulate me if he was scum.
Basically, I'm suspicious of him, but I don't think he is the best option for today's lynch.
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God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active.
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Zephirdd: I've just skimmed your case on marv and I only see 3 arguments to that entire post. So before I start digging in the filters please confirm this. You think marv is scum because
1) Meta
2) His "slip" about NMM2/NMM3
3) revesed OMGUS because he voted me with OMGUS
When you put it up like that its a really weak case.
But I'll look at filters later...
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On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote:
God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active.
Then answer me this: Who is scum?
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On September 10 2012 15:33 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 15:08 vaderseven wrote:
God I don't like any of the current cases at all.
I will be around to answer questions AND i have next two days off work so I'll be a bit more active. Then answer me this: Who is scum?
I have no leads atm.
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What? Nothing. Not just a little tiny read on someone?
I'll ask differently then. What do you think about Zephs case on marv and marv's lack of defence to that case?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 10 2012 14:02 Keirathi wrote:About marv: I'll give you that his lack of cases is disconcerting (which I already pointed out to him, but he didn't respond), and reading back through DFMM, I didn't realize just how much less information he has been forthcoming with in this game compared to that one (IE, he had large posts explaining his thought process/rationale/opinions on the major cases). Also, he dropped his case on me extremely easily (pressure vote?), and mildly buddied me. However, like I also mentioned, he does have a few posts that feel distinctly townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16154605 for one. As scum, why wouldn't he just let it ride that my post said I felt like he was distancing himself from the Risen wagon by unvoting? Also, his interactions with Risen feel different than his interactions with his "scum reads" in NMM3 and DN. Here, he was pretty "bulldog"-y. Like he was trying to keep Risen posting so that he could feel Risen out. In NMM3 and DN, he was using his arguments to convince everyone else, rather than starting a shouting match to convince himself. Conclusion: I'm always extremely paranoid of marv. He's certainly good enough as scum to be scary, and generally is more open and forthcoming about his reasoning as town. I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on how to read him though. I've spent a huge amount of time talking with him on IRC about strategy, past games, how he plays, how I play, etc etc. I feel like I have a decent idea of how he thinks, but the converse side of that is that he has a decent grasp on how I think as well, and is certainly smart enough to potentially use that to manipulate me if he was scum. Basically, I'm suspicious of him, but I don't think he is the best option for today's lynch.
This is it, people are always terrified I'm scum, and people get suspicious of me. Keirathi, you should know very well I drop cases easily as town. s0lstice in Not Themed and Custos Luna in Dwarf, I both dropped extremely quickly.
People bang on about cases - if people wanna do meta, then LOOK at my filter in say Mad Men. I didn't make a case on Zeph there at all, just went along with a redcheck (in comparison, look at how I did NOT vote for previous red check, talis). Then I voted VE on a paragraph and I only made my big case on JingleHell because town would'n't do what I wanted when I just told them to.
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EPT
