EPTTL Mafia LVII - Page 69
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
You are awfully quiet. Can you share just little bit of you vet wisdom? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Also, personal attacks =/= scum. To me, he sounds pretty pissed off that you made a bad case against him, and I agree fully. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 09 2012 04:34 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Boson youve totally taken what austin said out of context. Here's what he said: 1) You had an almost happy reaction to being FoSed 2) You voted for Matt while having believing his claim. Then you dont address the fakeclaim instead coming back and giving a useless connection post based on Matt's alignment. 3) You talk about Ottox, tell everyone to shut up, yet keep talking about Ottox 4) You have information on LI, which you could only know if you had read the game, or you had a scum mate who obsed or played feed you the meta information. (1) Is that his interaction with GK was different from the other two he played with. (2) Is relatively correct. Votes matt while seeming to partially believe the claim. Then not addressing. (3) Yes. "Guys don't do this," then does this. (4) Sort of, yeah. Mainly just that he read LI, showing he was very concerned with Toad (that's a lot to read). He then asks all those questions of Toad, again, very concerned with Toad. However, he does nothing with his concern, and Toad doesn't even think that someone would read that game, whereas Z-BosoN clearly either read the game or knows a good bit about it. So much interest in Toad, yet nothing but those empty questions. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 09 2012 05:23 Hapahauli wrote: I agree that personal attacks =/= scum. I don't like that one myself. Some people seem to, I've seen it brought up before.^ did you not read anything he just said above? It sound pretty reasonable. You have grounds to accuse me, and the confirmed-town BM24 on the same rationale. Also, personal attacks =/= scum. To me, he sounds pretty pissed off that you made a bad case against him, and I agree fully. Yes, I did read what he wrote. I'm less convinced than you when a lot of the defense is "Here is a thing you said I did that was scummy. Here are 2 other people that did that thing." It's not just that Z-BosoN did a single thing right? That's not the extent of what I'm saying, I'm not pointing to a single thing. So the fact that someone else did this one thing doesn't trouble me. Because it's the combination, it's the bunch of little things, that worries me. Moreover, unsure how I feel about "If you want to say I'm scum because of x, you should be accusing y and z because of x" as a defense. It's got some merit I guess, but it doesn't make me feel like he's been less scummy, just that other people have done some scummy things, which is always going to be true. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 09 2012 05:15 Z-BosoN wrote: Ok, now you've cleared things up. Your main case against me is: 1) me calling out goodkarma 2) him not responding No, that's not really the "main case." The case is a number of things. By picking ONE out to respond to, he's isolating a single scummy portion of what he's done, and finding other people who did this. Did any of these other people lie about reading LVI? If he's not lying about LVI, then he had a HUGE mafiaboner for Toad, read Toad's filter in that game just to see what Toad had talked about in this side comment. Yet he doesn't follow up with anything about Toad, and doesn't really have legit questions for Toad. Etc. By starting off this way, he's skirted around responding to a lot of what I'm talking about, and chosen to fight this single point here Ok, let's see. Hapa calls him out much stronger, even saying he is scum: He says this, but doesn't push or vote on GK. Why? Because the town focus was not on him, it was on mattchew, who was pretty much confirmed scum after the confirmation!! And hmm... gk doesn't answer him... suspicious.... SO WHAT ?!??! He didn't answer because he didn't want to. So if this is your main point, why are you not going for him? [red]Again, it's not the only point, and not the "main" point. Association is pretty weak when you associated for a single cycle, that should NOT be anyone's main reason right now, imo.[red] Also, there was blackmamba who noted gk's shitty post: Right now you have two logical choices, expand your dumb accusations to include another active poster, or back off because your arguments are terribad. Given the situation we are in right now, I will insist for the last goddamn time you choose the latter.We don't need more lynch targets. I am trying to provide one single scummy person that I want to lynch, because I don't like the other two options. I'm not trying to add 4 other lynch candidates, THAT would be anti-town at this point. He's asking why don't I do something that would not be helpful. PRE EDIT: LOL. So he was scummy in a game you played with him. So if he's scummy now, he must be town because that's what you expect, and you want me to waste time reading that game? AND, that is supposed to be stronger than him making a bad claim and trying to wriggle his way out by jumping on the most promising bandwagon. Ok, I'm done answering you. EDIT#2: Yes, I forgot about BM, who also made accusations vs gk that were unanswered: So that means he's scum right?? I mean, he attacked GK, but a bit uncompromisingly, no? And.. lol... GK DIDN'T ANSWER HIM??? omfg scum! scum!See, again. He's focused on this one bit of what I find scummy, the associative bit. No. This means SHIT given the context the thread was in. I'm done. If you are town, I honestly hope you trip, bang your head, and when you wake up you realize the error of your ways. Just ask yourself, what am I doing by proposing Z-BosoN for lynch. I don't want to lynch BKE or Grush. But I need to vote someone. So I look through filters, imallinson, shiaopi, couple other players. I POSTED ABOUT THIS. Just vomited looks through their filters, saying why I wasn't going to push them. Then I came upon Z-BosoN. Z-BosoN felt like scum to me. I'm not, at this point, concerned about other players. There are other scum. We can only lynch one per day. It does not help town if I find everyone who has ever done anything scummy. It helps town if I present a scummy person, some sort of case on them, and explain why I don't like BKE or Grush for a lynch. What he's asking, or partially asking, why didn't you accuse all these other people? is silly. Because it wasn't what I was trying to do, wouldn't have helped town. Seriously, think about that. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Okay admittedly I'm a bit biased because of my meta-read, and I sat down to take a look at your case again. The one thing I want some answers from Z-Boson is his ##Vote post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#413 I just don't understand what he's saying here. It's as if he criticizes the reasoning for voting Mattchew, then turns around and votes Mattchew. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 09 2012 05:38 Hapahauli wrote: ^@ austinmcc Okay admittedly I'm a bit biased because of my meta-read, and I sat down to take a look at your case again. The one thing I want some answers from Z-Boson is his ##Vote post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#413 I just don't understand what he's saying here. It's as if he criticizes the reasoning for voting Mattchew, then turns around and votes Mattchew. He doesn't think BC can be sure nosy neighbors aren't self-aware. What does that mean? It means he thinks there's a chance matt is self-aware, i.e., not lying. Then he votes mattchew anyway, in the same post where it looks like he doubts that mattchew is fakeclaiming nosy neighbor. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 04 2012 12:06 Z-BosoN wrote: Wait what? He's a one-liner semi-lurker who answers in riddles and you are ok with that and is defensive on him? Tell us why you think that not answering the godamn question straight-up of why he is so sure of the whole miller deal is pro-town? On September 04 2012 12:29 Z-BosoN wrote: It's not like it's the end of the deadline, we are still a long ways to go... plus, votes don't count in this thread. Also, the discussion up to now is going nowhere. BC has made it a point to say that he knows something we don't, but won't clarify. If he did indeed learn something game changing as that, I presume Palmar would have announced it in this thread. So, he's directed the whole discussion at him, and has disappeared. This is all but productive.. So I began the post by saying how full of shit he was. So that first part I wrote before reading slOosh's post, which clarified the situation and sounded extremely reasonable: On September 04 2012 12:58 slOosh wrote: BC is forcing a 1-1, basically a lynch between him and Mattchew. On his side its raw gutsyness, and as people have pointed out if it's a scum strat then it ends up with a D2 lynch on him, or even a N1 vig shot; it is unlikely that he would pull this off to kill a town Mattchew as I don't think anyone can wriggle out of the subsequent backlash lynch. A 1-1 on Mattchew is stupid, especially if it could end up him (BC) lynched first, which would make it a 1 for nothing. On Mattchew's side is the self-aware miller claim. If millers were self-aware, they would out themselves, and it would strengthen his claim. If they aren't self-aware as they usually aren't, he would be safe until someone flipped nosy neighbor, in which case his lie would be exposed and he lynched. In a big game like this, potentially worth it. Unlikely that both are town as it would mean a lying townie. Unlikely that both are scum cause it's so sub-optimal. I'd lynch Matt first on the basis that BC's demeanor seems more honest than Mattchew's. I mean, some guy is screaming his head off that you are a liar, and if you know that your role PM is "Nosy Neighbour" then the other guy (BC) must be an idiot or a liar. Mattchew isn't treating him like an idiot, nor is he treating him like a liar. The response is off (I base this off my experience fake claiming in Bureaucracy Mafia). If we get ... news of something otherwise, it's easy enough to switch. But even without it behavior analysis should be enough. Dunno why you haven't thought of voting him though BC. ##Vote: Mattchew So then I made the rest of the post agreeing that it was perfectly reasonable for mattchew to be lynched. I honestly just forgot to erase the beginning of the post, which initially was meant to say that BC was full of shit (note how I started with "first of all"). | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 09 2012 06:03 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Z what was your thought after Palmar's mod confirm? 95% scum. 5% retard. | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
B4? | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
BroodKingEXE (16) Hapahauli slOosh imallinson Hopeless1der ShiaoPi Rewok DoYouHas Maverick32x Forumite Gravan strongandbig grush57 Toadesstern Shady Sands Z-BosoN Kreb (Miltonkram) DoYouHas (1) Bill Murray ShiaoPi (0) Maverick32x (0) Shady Sands (0) grush57 (1) DarthPunk Z-BosoN (2) austinmcc BroodKingEXE Not yet voted! (1) Lvdr (mkfuba07) | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
forumite's votecount is correct, I think. it seems to match my document. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
First a few assumptions I'm making: 1) Mafia has one vig thus had effectively three kp night one not including GK's bomb. 2) Mafia used all their kp. Someone suggested they saved some to out blues but that seems like it would only work if pressure was being put on that blue so I think it's unlikely. 3) Mafia did not shoot Ottox. If BKE is watcher then GK must have bombed BM and shot BC without a double stack. Therefore we are missing two kp. The only way for this to happen is a combination of a medic/jailer getting a lucky save, a scum shot hit an assassin or the jailer rb'd a scum. To me this seems very unlikely because BC seems like the better bomb target and barring a medic saving BKE he should be dead. Also missing two kp feels really fishy to me. One getting blocked I could understand but two seems a little far fetched given the information available at the time (that no one apart from the two dead people seemed that town). | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On September 09 2012 06:42 imallinson wrote: If BKE is a watcher then scum did not double stack. He only saw GK, and he wouldn't be lying if he were actually a watcher.I've been out all day and caught up with the thread on the bus home. The day is almost over so sorry if this is a bit hasty. I'm not buying BKE's watcher claim. First a few assumptions I'm making: 1) Mafia has one vig thus had effectively three kp night one not including GK's bomb. 2) Mafia used all their kp. Someone suggested they saved some to out blues but that seems like it would only work if pressure was being put on that blue so I think it's unlikely. 3) Mafia did not shoot Ottox. If BKE is watcher then GK must have bombed BM and shot BC without a double stack. Therefore we are missing two kp. The only way for this to happen is a combination of a medic/jailer getting a lucky save, a scum shot hit an assassin or the jailer rb'd a scum. To me this seems very unlikely because BC seems like the better bomb target and barring a medic saving BKE he should be dead. Also missing two kp feels really fishy to me. One getting blocked I could understand but two seems a little far fetched given the information available at the time (that no one apart from the two dead people seemed that town). | ||
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