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On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about?
What are you talking about, Ive been here.
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Okay, reader:
You're about to be lynched. The deadline is closing in. You're previous few posts have not convinced the players of the game to sway their votes - the wagon is gaining momentum. What do you do?
On September 09 2012 03:56 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Austin Your case looks good except for the smiles. They seem more like a mockery of GKs original smile.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson
...
I am really just putting this out there because I still want to hear a nice clear explanation of things from BKE. I feel as though, if he were a blue, he could be protected by a doctor or at least commit to his role-claim a bit more. As it is, his behavior seems to have become more shifty and dodgy to me in the last few posts - I don't get the impression that he really is what he claims to be.
Also:
On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about?
Did you consider the possibility of a doctor (or jailer) healing (or roleblocking) the other mafia KP?
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On September 09 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? What are you talking about, Ive been here. Yeah, and while you were here you´ve made cases on Maverick, Shady and Z-boson and a few one-liners, but since your claim you haven´t talked about yourself. You have loads of votes on you, but you focus on pointing out scummier targets instead of defending yourself.
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On September 09 2012 04:08 Gravan wrote:Okay, reader: You're about to be lynched. The deadline is closing in. You're previous few posts have not convinced the players of the game to sway their votes - the wagon is gaining momentum. What do you do? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:56 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Austin Your case looks good except for the smiles. They seem more like a mockery of GKs original smile.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson lol, my thoughts exactly
On September 09 2012 04:08 Gravan wrote:Also: Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? Did you consider the possibility of a doctor (or jailer) healing (or roleblocking) the other mafia KP? I considered it, but in my experience doctors rarely save people directly, instead they make sure scum either have to doublestack town leaders or kill less attractive targets who are unlikely to get medic-protection.
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First off, some of the posts against you you left unanswered.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2012 05:13 Hopeless1der wrote:BKE, Your post: Show nested quote +Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. can be broken out into the following. 2 is a supporting argument for 1 3 is the conclusion of why 1 and 2 are not reasons to vote, but you went ahead and voted because of 1 and 2. You're Scum On September 08 2012 05:15 Hopeless1der wrote:
EBWOP:
Your post at the extremes would read:
"I would NEVER vote a fakeclaimer, even if it was confirmed. I only vote scummy things." On September 08 2012 05:57 DoYouHas wrote:Ok, I think Hapa is right about Brood. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). 1. Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. 2. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. 1. - This bit is fine. Not wanting to lynch just to verify a roleclaim makes sense. 2. - This is where it crosses the line into scum territory. In the space of one sentence Mattchew has gone from a roleclaim to a fakeclaim. It could be construed that what he is saying here is that the belief that someone has fakeclaimed and lynching them to confirm it is not a good enough reason. However, that isn't what he actually said. He said, "Fakeclaims aren't a good basis for lynch". That makes the contradiction Hapa pointed out both plain and valid. I also don't like how Brood left himself a way out with "so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy".
This explanation about Ottox is wrong. Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 05:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About the Ottox thing, Ottox is a stubborn townie and people need to know that. If they don't he's going to be considered scummy for the wrong reason. I saw a lot of people piling on Ottox for a trait that he has as town (his ignorant stubborness), so I presented another thing I saw he wasn't doing (scumhunting) as a better reason. It makes no sense to defend your top scumread. Who gives a crap if someone is backing you up for the wrong reason? You make note of that and use it against them later. You don't try and convince them to not pressure the person you think is scummiest. This looks like BS to me. Also, I'm surprised you cite his lack of scumhunting as the only valid reason because earlier you posted this, directed at Toad: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 00:34 BroodKingEXE wrote:
You can understand my fustration though right? Right now I see you as a player that's asking questions but not paying attention to the answers. Scummy in my book. So for Toad it was scummy but for Ottox it was completely innocuous? It seems far more likely that you were caught hedging than having this explanation be true. ##Vote: BroodKingEXE On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote:Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective. I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning... Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? Its basically a miller role that the town knows about why not? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:52 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:--snipped-- On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement. This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves. So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!! On September 09 2012 03:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
@BKE
Did you leave crumbs?
Can you convince us in any better way that you are a watcher and you aren't lying through your teeth?
Because, as scum, it's very very convenient to claim have investigated the player that didn't blow up and that is something everyone knows. It seems quite the lie.
--snip--
And now, you are hopping from target to target.
You make a big case against maverick, makes arguments, etc:
[QUOTE]On September 09 2012 00:28 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Mav
I view his stances on Matthew and I have been really wishy-washy, most likely scum not wanting to fully commit yet stay on the safe side of the lynch.
[QUOTE]On September 07 2012 22:05 Maverick32x wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 07 2012 20:51 Forumite wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 07 2012 13:12 Maverick32x wrote:
@Forumite-
I guess we have different perspectives when it comes to scum hunting? The majority of players are town.. so wouldn't it be smarter to do some 'innocent until proven guilty'? As opposed to just blasting everyone because everyone else is doing it?
All this being said- I'm wondering if we should just lynch a lurker? I feel like allowing scum to lurk is a bad plan?I don´t think you are paranoid enough for this game. Everyone is a possible scum until they are confirmed or flip. If two players attack eachother, then you look at the conversation to get a feel if one of them are scummy, a case and a defence against that case is a source of information, but if you interfere in a way that shuts down the conversation, then that opportunity for information and analysis disappear.
As for lurker lynch, why don´t you want to lynch me? You called me scum after the daypost. [/QUOTE]
Because you're posting. And that's atleast an indication of some kind of engagement.
BKE has fluffy posts, defends Matt a bit, and then just kinda floats around....however, I'm sticking with my lurking instincts and just going to take ShiaoPi out. [/QUOTE]
He thinks Im a lurker (below ShiaoPi) and has an opinion on me. But he doesn't see me as scummy quite yet.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=55#1093]Mav 1[/url]
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=55#1094]Shiao 1[/url]
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=55#1095]Mav 2[/url]
Read these two posts, he is suspicious of Shiao for "Trusting others reads". The second post suggests that he is worried about a bandwagon, strange that he doesn't comment on that himself.
[QUOTE]On September 08 2012 02:19 Maverick32x wrote:
Wow. Sorry for my awful grammar .. on the phone on a train....
I'll switch to BKE... But I agree there are a lot of good cases existing... [/QUOTE]
His turning point to me, Hapa's case. The same case in which he was suspicious of Shiao following. The fact that he replied meant that he didn't take the case as a good reason to vote for me. Therefore it makes no sense for him to vote for me.
[QUOTE]On September 08 2012 04:38 Maverick32x wrote:
Is the vote deadline at 5pm cst?
I'm really struggling with a BKE lynch the more its discussed... Anyone else have thoughts?
I really think Hap is town- but I'm just not sure on his read... I'm in a training so just trying to post on breaks... [/QUOTE]
This post can be read two ways
1: He is not sure of Hapa's read on me. (The reason he voted for me)
2: He is not sure of Hapa's alignment, which is basically questioning the read.
The whole reason he votes for me at this point is that Hapa's read is the lynchpin, yet he doubts the read left and right.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote:Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective. I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning... Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? Its basically a miller role that the town knows about why not? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:52 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:--snipped-- On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement. This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse: Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves. So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!!
His first reason behind voting for me is that he is "suspicious" of my soft defending. He's still not willing to commit, even putting in a point that doesn't even strike him as necassarily scummy. The second point doesn't make sense either, there's a difference between a hard push and a soft push. Toad was doing what I considered at the time a soft push, he later explained that his slo0sh "push" was drawing reaction. Ottox wasn't doing any pushing just trying to move the lynch to god knows who (since he never made a strong push). How is asking Ottox to find scum, scummy? Doesn't any townie have to make claims, so there's nothing wrong with asking Ottox to post his reads. He then finishes off his post with another point of doubt, doesn't even finish with saying Im scum!
Mav doesn't want to commit to killing any townie. He is scum: ##Vote: Maverick32x[/QUOTE]
Then you go with:
[QUOTE]On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim...[/QUOTE]Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything.
I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts.
Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops.
Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim.
[/QUOTE]
I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case.
Just to make it clear I think
Shady and Mav are scum[/QUOTE]
So, ok, it's clear you think mav and Shady are scum. And now:
[QUOTE]On September 09 2012 03:56 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Austin Your case looks good except for the smiles. They seem more like a mockery of GKs original smile.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson[/QUOTE]
With a "your case looks good" (I don't know if it's because I'm the one being targeted, but that case looks everything BUT good...)
This when you are pretty much set to be lynched. Now you are also looking like a cornered scum trying to find a way out because you cannot back your crappy claim.
Goddamn, I sure hope you aren't town....
##Vote BroodKingExe
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EBWOP: wth?? why the quote not work??
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On September 09 2012 04:11 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? What are you talking about, Ive been here. Yeah, and while you were here you´ve made cases on Maverick, Shady and Z-boson and a few one-liners, but since your claim you haven´t talked about yourself. You have loads of votes on you, but you focus on pointing out scummier targets instead of defending yourself.
Well usually its better to present s lynch option than just purely defend.
Here's my side of things
Mattchew claimed nosy neighbor, I believed the claim and had no reason to believe it was fake. The theory of him claiming as town had holes, but I viewed that there could have been a benefit at a quick glance. When Palmar confirmed neighbors didnt know their alighnment, I didnt see any reason for him to lie, and he didnt make any attempt to explain his claim at all. Despite being somewhat active before the discussion started. He gets lynched, so we look at Ottox. Ottox is being his stubborn self and people are starting to get a scum read on him. Ottox being stubborn isnt alignment indicative, so I point that out, but his lack of scumhunting is scummy. No one's really commented on my recent cases, so Ill end it there.
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On September 09 2012 04:23 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 04:11 Forumite wrote:On September 09 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 04:01 Forumite wrote:
Caught up. Still think scum held a killpower in order to get another night to find blues before they need to worry about the blues finding them.
I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch.
I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? What are you talking about, Ive been here. Yeah, and while you were here you´ve made cases on Maverick, Shady and Z-boson and a few one-liners, but since your claim you haven´t talked about yourself. You have loads of votes on you, but you focus on pointing out scummier targets instead of defending yourself. Well usually its better to present s lynch option than just purely defend. Here's my side of things Mattchew claimed nosy neighbor, I believed the claim and had no reason to believe it was fake. The theory of him claiming as town had holes, but I viewed that there could have been a benefit at a quick glance. When Palmar confirmed neighbors didnt know their alighnment, I didnt see any reason for him to lie, and he didnt make any attempt to explain his claim at all. Despite being somewhat active before the discussion started. He gets lynched, so we look at Ottox. Ottox is being his stubborn self and people are starting to get a scum read on him. Ottox being stubborn isnt alignment indicative, so I point that out, but his lack of scumhunting is scummy. No one's really commented on my recent cases, so Ill end it there.
The problem is it doesn't seem you are trying to present us with a better case. You went for maverick, who had both me and one or two other people pointing fingers at him. You made a case on him. You showed why you think he was scum.
THEN, out of the blue, you go ahead and vote for me when I have 2 or 3 votes on me, and saying that you agree with a (again, this might be biased, but I honestly think it is a) rubbish case, in which even austin said it was a "half-case". That was enough to make you insta-change your vote from someone you actually had a decent case on to someone else.
That just made it seem like you are desperately trying to find an escape wagon to jump on. That being said, I was the logical choice, because besides you, I (for some magical reason) have more votes on me than anyone but you (except maybe for grush, I don't know).
I think if you were townie, you would most likely insist on mav, had it been an actual meaningful suspicion on your behalf. Cornered scum is what you are.
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No one has commented on your cases because you yourself don't give them traction!! How do you expect to convince people to vote for someone else if you yourself can't give better reasons and don't support your own claims??
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@Boson youve totally taken what austin said out of context. Here's what he said:
1) You had an almost happy reaction to being FoSed
2) You voted for Matt while having believing his claim. Then you dont address the fakeclaim instead coming back and giving a useless connection post based on Matt's alignment.
3) You talk about Ottox, tell everyone to shut up, yet keep talking about Ottox
4) You have information on LI, which you could only know if you had read the game, or you had a scum mate who obsed or played feed you the meta information.
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On September 09 2012 03:47 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:40 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 03:37 Shady Sands wrote:
I'm not convinced on Z-B being a scum because he had some pretty acrimonious exchanges with GK on D1. In all the games I've played, scum pretty much ignore each other D1, so that's a very strong town-tell in my books. Look at their filters. The most acrimonious thing is GK FoSing Z-Boson. To which he responds with smilies. GK points out that weird "If matt is town if matt is scum" post, but does nothing with it. I find no acrimonious exchanges, and only one real accusation that's just an FoS followed by smilies. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=32#630This is what I was referring to. Still on a second look it does look weaker than I expected. Could be a distancing move, although at this point it's not enough for me to base a lynch upon (especially when BKE looks so scummy.) Going to take a nap now. That one has strong language, but nothing behind it.
Inconsistent, contradictory, post full of crap, your post has been quite suspicious...POOF. That's it. His conclusion is "you demonstrate a lack of reading and a lack of consistency."
Not that GK was scummy. Not that GK was scum. Just that GK didn't read, was inconsistent, contradictory, suspicious, and...nothing.
IF Z-BosoN was really calling out GK there, really making him seem scummy, really being acrimonious, wouldn't GK respond? Wouldn't he answer some of Z-BosoN's questions? Get upset that Z-BosoN found him scummy?
Cuz he didn't. At no point in time does he respond to that Z-BosoN post.
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On September 09 2012 04:34 Z-BosoN wrote:
No one has commented on your cases because you yourself don't give them traction!! How do you expect to convince people to vote for someone else if you yourself can't give better reasons and don't support your own claims??
I cant build my case on Mav if he refuses to respond to my case. What is wrong with me agreeing with Austins half-case, it has legitimate evidence.
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On September 09 2012 03:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
Tell me this: you mentioned you believe BKE without saying why. Have you read the case on him? Doesn't it strike you odd that he has an extremely scummy filter and gave off an extremely convenient claim?
Also, why have you dismissed all the info on toad with a "We need a more proper case against him to lynch him". Then you come to me with a half-assed case hours before the deadline and insist that I should be lynched? Disregarding the fact that it's insulting, it is also hella suspicious and inconsistent with your stated view on lynching toad. Yes, I've read the cases on BKE. It strikes me as extremely normal that he has an extremely scummy filter.- I led a D1 lynch on him in my first newbie game. He was town. I thought he was scummy as hell.
- I believe he was lynched D1 in the game he played before that.
- He was a CONSTANT target in LVI, a D1 lynch target all the way through when a DT claimed a green check on him a few days in
So nope. Not surprised at all that he has a scummy filter.
Does it strike me as odd that he gave an extremely convenient claim? I disagree with your premise. "Extremely convenient claim." If he claimed vig, medic, JK, something that did something somewhere else, I'd have more trouble with it. He claimed to be on one of the two targets, which started a whole war about whether we got notifications, whether we maybe had a medic/JK protect, who had been suicided on, etc. That was NOT a convenient claim. A convenient claim would have been "I vigged ottoxlol." If you mean "convenient" as in "he claimed before he died," that's kind of the only time you can make a claim. He didn't claim right at the start, he waited, waited, claimed later. It's odd timing for a claim. I don't love it. WBG wrote a bunch of stuff on claims and timing and believability in...normal mini mafia II? Go read it.
I haven't dismissed the info with Toad. I can't get him lynched today. Whether he's town, scum, assassin, martian, whatever, we aren't lynching Toad today and we weren't lynching Toad today. He's good enough that it's going to take more than a single cycle to get anything much on him. Also, I was paranoid about him in LV, so me accusing Toad isn't particularly powerful.
You, on the other hand, are more outwardly scummy. You also have less pull in thread. I've also not read your games, but I know that Toad can probably fight a lynch pretty hard. Not sure whether you can or not.
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Ok, spent last 1.5h reading through last days pages (what better way to spend a saturday evening, ey?). Im not sure it even matter since BKE seems to be going out anyway, but the case on him seems like the best one so far. Voting for BKE.
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Ok austin I don't understand you so I'm gonna rephrase the question. What makes you think BKEXE is town?
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On September 09 2012 04:53 Kreb wrote:
Ok, spent last 1.5h reading through last days pages (what better way to spend a saturday evening, ey?). Im not sure it even matter since BKE seems to be going out anyway, but the case on him seems like the best one so far. Voting for BKE.
Stay, if you can im just doing hw and playing ill be here till lynch.
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On September 09 2012 04:53 slOosh wrote:
Ok austin I don't understand you so I'm gonna rephrase the question. What makes you think BKEXE is town? There were..."easier" claims to make. Vigi, protective role, etc. Instead, he claims a role that visited one of the dead folks, one of the very outspoken townies D1.
From that I get - (1) He didn't make the easiest fakeclaim. (2) He claimed something that could very well be disputed. The big vets were clear targets N1. If I'd been a watcher, I'd have been watching one probably. If I were fakeclaiming watcher, I'd claim to have watched someone odd, where there's little chance that someone ACTUALLY watched the person I was claiming, and knew I hadn't visited.
Beyond that, there's the above bit about BKE usually looking scummy. Again, I championed a lynch on him one game, he was town. Looked scummy in LVI, town.
If he's scum, how is the team responding? This point is weak, but ... I feel like there have been points where the lynch MIGHT have been able to be shifted. To grush, for example. Scum is DOWN TWO PLAYERS after ONE CYCLE. That's...a lot. Doesn't scum TRY to shift the lynch there? Either to grush, or maverick, or anyone? Instead, lynch has stayed pretty comfortably on BKE.
Also, I know this doesn't answer the related question - "Why does BKE's filter make you think he's townie?" Because there I've got ... nothing or much less. Just finding Z-BosoN much scummier, know that BKE has often been mislynched D1 or been a target, etc.
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EBWOP: by "easiest fakeclaim," I mean he could have claimed to vig ottoxlol, or protect some random person that didn't get killed. Instead he chose to claim something that directly interacted with a guy we know was a target last night, and that someone might have been on, and that causes us to do NK math. Any claim that ends in town doing NK math seems much more ... difficult, because then later stuff can prove/disprove you very easily.
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On September 09 2012 04:35 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:47 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 03:40 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 03:37 Shady Sands wrote:
I'm not convinced on Z-B being a scum because he had some pretty acrimonious exchanges with GK on D1. In all the games I've played, scum pretty much ignore each other D1, so that's a very strong town-tell in my books. Look at their filters. The most acrimonious thing is GK FoSing Z-Boson. To which he responds with smilies. GK points out that weird "If matt is town if matt is scum" post, but does nothing with it. I find no acrimonious exchanges, and only one real accusation that's just an FoS followed by smilies. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=32#630This is what I was referring to. Still on a second look it does look weaker than I expected. Could be a distancing move, although at this point it's not enough for me to base a lynch upon (especially when BKE looks so scummy.) Going to take a nap now. That one has strong language, but nothing behind it. Inconsistent, contradictory, post full of crap, your post has been quite suspicious...POOF. That's it. His conclusion is "you demonstrate a lack of reading and a lack of consistency." Not that GK was scummy. Not that GK was scum. Just that GK didn't read, was inconsistent, contradictory, suspicious, and...nothing. IF Z-BosoN was really calling out GK there, really making him seem scummy, really being acrimonious, wouldn't GK respond? Wouldn't he answer some of Z-BosoN's questions? Get upset that Z-BosoN found him scummy? Cuz he didn't. At no point in time does he respond to that Z-BosoN post.
Ok, now you've cleared things up. Your main case against me is:
1) me calling out goodkarma
2) him not responding
Ok, let's see. Hapa calls him out much stronger, even saying he is scum:
On September 05 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:
@ GoodKarma
Are we reading the same game? Why are you agreeing with me on Mattchew? I wasn't the one who made the case.
Also, Grush is nowhere near a modkill - he has several posts and a vote already.
In that list of lurkers, how is Lvdr "semi-lurking" - he doesn't even have a post!
On September 05 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:51 BlackMamba24 wrote:
GoodKarma - are you going to vote for mattchew right now?
GoodKarma is scum for this reason - he says that mattchew is confirmed scum but then doesn't vote for him and tries to push suspicion onto me instead, appeals to BC (buddying up to a vet, classic newbie scum)
basically the same as treehugger or whoever in tl mafia xxx who says "yeah youngminii is scum for sure but im not gonna vote for him and instead make a case on this random dude" The strange thing is that he buddied up to me and not to BC. Hell it's pretty clear from his post that he didn't read the thread, given his stances on Grush and lvdr.
He says this, but doesn't push or vote on GK. Why? Because the town focus was not on him, it was on mattchew, who was pretty much confirmed scum after the confirmation!!
And hmm... gk doesn't answer him... suspicious.... SO WHAT ?!??! He didn't answer because he didn't want to.
So if this is your main point, why are you not going for him? Also, there was blackmamba who noted gk's shitty post:
Right now you have two logical choices, expand your dumb accusations to include another active poster, or back off because your arguments are terribad.
Given the situation we are in right now, I will insist for the last goddamn time you choose the latter.
PRE EDIT:
LOL. So he was scummy in a game you played with him. So if he's scummy now, he must be town because that's what you expect, and you want me to waste time reading that game? AND, that is supposed to be stronger than him making a bad claim and trying to wriggle his way out by jumping on the most promising bandwagon. Ok, I'm done answering you.
EDIT#2:
Yes, I forgot about BM, who also made accusations vs gk that were unanswered:
On September 05 2012 09:51 BlackMamba24 wrote:
GoodKarma - are you going to vote for mattchew right now?
GoodKarma is scum for this reason - he says that mattchew is confirmed scum but then doesn't vote for him and tries to push suspicion onto me instead, appeals to BC (buddying up to a vet, classic newbie scum)
basically the same as treehugger or whoever in tl mafia xxx who says "yeah youngminii is scum for sure but im not gonna vote for him and instead make a case on this random dude"
On September 05 2012 09:37 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote:I would agree with Hapa that Mattchew is almost a 100% scum read. He's done a good job of highlighting why. But there is more than one scum. We need to move past Mattchew onto pressuring other people. A scum lynch day one puts us in an excellent position going forward. Looking at others' filters I couldn't help but notice that there still are a considerable number of people that need to participate more to help ensure a strong pro-town environment going into day 2. Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste. On the other hand, Gravan, Lvdr, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons. As for things that have stood out to me: -Obviously, Ottoxlol made a rather out of place vote after it was apparent Mattchew was lying. I don't feel this is a scum tell, as from a scum perspective Mattchew is pretty much "confirmed scum" at this point. Scum would be dumb to not bus him. It doesn't guarantee he's innocent, but it feels like his vote is too out of place to have been made by scum. -BlackMamba's early vote against Cobbler still stands out to me. Cobbler started the initiative to get Mattchew lynched, convincing me that he's "confirmed town." I just don't see any scenario where Cobbler as scum aggressively buses his partner day one. Yet BlackMamba voted him with little reason, then turned around and tacked on more of an explanation a little later. BlackMamba's play here makes sense from a scum perspective, as he could have been trying to avert attention away from Mattchew. Also, he isn't transparent with his reads. As town, I see no reason why he'd withhold them, as he does here: On September 04 2012 12:05 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 12:00 goodkarma wrote:@BlackMamba:On September 04 2012 11:30 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 11:03 goodkarma wrote:Hey all  A couple general observations for what I've just read: -I don't follow some of the voting that's already taken place in this thread. I don't get why some of us feel the need to vote for each other this early with little to no information to back a vote up. Imho, we should be working to establish a strong, pro-town atmosphere just as much as we are to find a lynch candidate for today. -I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. Looking back at how NMM XXIV turned out (Shady's lynch), others here should agree with me that there's at least some evidence to support this. Town loses so much more from a mislynch of a vocal town than of a semi-lurker, and, at least in my experience, you're much more likely to lynch a town than a scum when you target the most vocal day one player. I'm not going to assume that sloosh is town at this point, but the effort he's taken to pressure others with his posts is definitely conducive towards a pro-town atmosphere. Along those lines, I feel that Z-Boson's early vote on sloosh could very well be scum motivated. I disagree that sloosh's discussion is unhelpful. Maybe scum or town could pressure people like sloosh has, but he's pushing for more information so he's not stuck making a weak case against others, as Z-Boson has with sloosh: ##FoS: Z-Boson Can you explain why it's scum motivated? Why does scum want sloosh out of the game when all he's doing is arguing with Toadesstern and asking dumb questions First, I'd like to specify that asking questions that get others to discuss their reads on other players, or to defend themselves for something suspicious said in their posts, is not "dumb." I in fact find it suspicious from a townie perspective to call many of the lines of questioning recently presented in this thread as "dumb," since so far most of it has produced productive discussion. From a scum perspective, though, a statement like this does make sense. Scum has the knowledge of who is and isn't scum, so to them watching people they know to be town attacking each other could look pretty "dumb." Second, at the time I posted that sloosh was one of the most outspoken people in the game. From a scum perspective, it would make sense to remove an outspoken person day one. Especially if said person was furthering discussion by poking and prodding others with a lot of questions. While we're at it, I'd like to ask about this: On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor.
Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye What's with the vote for BloodyCobbler? He's pretty much a lurker at this point, but you're voting him for non-policy reasons... This feels like a scum getting behind a safe lurker lynch vote, at least at the time you wrote it (it just came to my attention as I'm about to post this that another page of postings have taken place, and cobbler has just made another post...)... My guess is this is a pressure vote, but I would appreciate a bit more of an explanation if you could provide it. because BC is full of shit and also making up stuff mattchew never said i'll never policy vote, i hate even reading the words next to each other i respectfully disagree about sloosh and how productive he has been but i'm not going to argue about it. i won't say anything about my read on him or toadesstern right now. hope that satisfies you I don't understand why it is that he can't share reads on sloosh and toadstern if he has them. Refusing to be transparent does not help town. ##FoS: BlackMamba I look forward to hearing BlackMamba's reply, especially regarding his reads on sloosh and toadstern that he refused to share. this is dumb, ask BC why also no i'm not giving you my reads, reads are fucking stupid any other questions
So that means he's scum right?? I mean, he attacked GK, but a bit uncompromisingly, no? And.. lol... GK DIDN'T ANSWER HIM??? omfg scum! scum!
No. This means SHIT given the context the thread was in.
I'm done. If you are town, I honestly hope you trip, bang your head, and when you wake up you realize the error of your ways.
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To anyone who likes that heuristic, you can add ad hominem attacks. Not entirely, because he is trying to dispute part of what I've said, but there's still plenty of personal stuff there.
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EPT
