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TL Mafia LVII - Page 56

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Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 07 2012 16:36 GMT
#1101
@ Rewok - Kinda surprised you don't have any solid reads after your long post earlier in the game declaring everyone "null"

Any updates? Town/Mafia reads or otherwise?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
September 07 2012 16:41 GMT
#1102
Like ... I don't understand how so many people (town) can lurk and think it's a good idea. SnB came in just to retort Toad, and mentions nothing about today's lynch. Shady Sands ninja voted. There's a couple of people who I know are in the game but I can't remember their names because they don't post.

Dear lurking town: stop it. If anything scum team are hiding because they don't have much thread presence. You are giving them room to hide. I don't care if you are blue, cause roles don't win games.

I guess a bunch of them could be assassins or something. But that's stupid too ...
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
September 07 2012 16:47 GMT
#1103
On September 08 2012 01:31 slOosh wrote:
Psh, what's most damning about Maverick is the fact that he has scum reads Forumite and DYH, and agrees with the case on BKEXE and yet for some reason waffles and ends up wanting to lynch a lurker. Good followup lynch.

exactly this.
If I were a multi-shot dayvig there would have been a crazy amount of dead people by now because we've got a shitton of people posting stuff like what you just mentioned.

We've got a complete luxury problem today as we have way too many good lynches we could go for and too many people posting cases about everyone and their dog.
The issue we have today is not wether or not we got a good lynch today, the issue we've got is which one's the best out of all those weird guys posting like "well maybe we should just lynch a random lurker today instead" because clearly not everyone can end up being mafia.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Maverick32x
Profile Joined April 2011
United States311 Posts
September 07 2012 17:13 GMT
#1104
I honestly have no problem voting BKE. I thought I was clear with reason I voted for Shiao... I wanted him to post... And look!! He's had more posts after be called out than all game!

Also yes- I'm considering more than one person as scummy or pointing out odd behaviors...
Check out 'Gamer Therapy'!! 10CST: twitch.tv/Maverick32x
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
September 07 2012 17:17 GMT
#1105
On September 08 2012 02:13 Maverick32x wrote:
I honestly have no problem voting BKE. I thought I was clear with reason I voted for Shiao... I wanted him to post... And look!! He's had more posts after be called out than all game!

Also yes- I'm considering more than one person as scummy or pointing out odd behaviors...

that's really not the issue here. If someone who I know to be decent would have posted
On September 07 2012 13:12 Maverick32x wrote:
@DoYouHas-
Solid defense, and you're right- I was probably tunneling too hard on filters. I still think the reliance on 'Meta' is not a reliable way to contribute to THIS game...

@Forumite-
I guess we have different perspectives when it comes to scum hunting? The majority of players are town.. so wouldn't it be smarter to do some 'innocent until proven guilty'? As opposed to just blasting everyone because everyone else is doing it?

All this being said- I'm wondering if we should just lynch a lurker? I feel like allowing scum to lurk is a bad plan?

after saying that we've got a bunch of decent targets that'd be an insta-lynch for me. For some reason we've got crazy amounts of people posting like this in this game though, which makes it hard to figure out who's posting weird because he's mafia and who's posting weird because he's new.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Maverick32x
Profile Joined April 2011
United States311 Posts
September 07 2012 17:19 GMT
#1106
Wow. Sorry for my awful grammar .. on the phone on a train....

I'll switch to BKE... But I agree there are a lot of good cases existing...
Check out 'Gamer Therapy'!! 10CST: twitch.tv/Maverick32x
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
September 07 2012 18:05 GMT
#1107
Something that caught my eye in goodkarma's filter.

On September 04 2012 18:38 goodkarma wrote:
But we still should be trying to create a pro-town environment going into day two. Along those lines:

The guiltiest lurkers are listed as follows, in no particular order:
Gravan, austinmc, imallinson, Strongandbig, Miltonkram

On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote:
Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste.

On the other hand, Gravan, Lvdr, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons.


In my experience, scum always include at least (and usually just) 1 other scum when making lists like this. This is mainly worth mentioning because only 2 names in these lists cross over, Gravan and austinmc. Take note. I'll move on to Brood's filter now.
Guts? Determination? $5?
BroodKingEXE
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States829 Posts
September 07 2012 18:12 GMT
#1108
On September 07 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:
Before I go to bed for the night:

BroodKingEXE

He has two very suspicious posts regarding two confirmed players: Mattchew and Ottoxlol.



A bit before Mattchew is scum-confirmed (right around when a few players start voting for Mattchew), Broodking posts this unbelievably wishy-washy opinion on Mattchew.
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.


Look at the logic - he first thinks its a great idea, then there are "too many holes."
He doesn't want to lynch him because his "roleclaim isn't verifiable until he is lynched" - the hell?
He said he's town originally, then says "its a coinflip"
Then he says "Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch" and wants to wait until "mattchew sounds scummy". Again, the fakeclaim is the entire reason everyone voted for him.

But wait! Two pages after the fakeclaim (and before Mattchew posted anything in the interim):
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew


Wow.


After stating earlier that the fakeclaim wasn't enough to lynch Mattchew, he votes Mattchew for that very reasoning.



His viewpoints on Ottoxlol are the nail in the coffin:

Goes from top scumread:
Show nested quote +
No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him [ed note: Broodking's scumread on Toad due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad.


Then proceeds to push cases against Miltonkram, Shadysands, and Gravan while Ottox is his top scumread:

Then says strange things about potentially townie Ottox while keeping a scumread on him.
Show nested quote +
filter
My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him.


Then SOFT DEFENDS OTTOX when talking to DrH
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:
On September 06 2012 15:39 BlackMamba24 wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=124671&currentpage=2

I see a clear attempt to be helpful and constructive here, at least over the first couple pages. Not belligerent, listening to other players, pressuring people, making a real effort to help the town. Seems very different to me.

It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic.




BroodKingEXE is scum!

##Vote BroodKingEXE

I've got a break to post. The reason I didn't like the idea of voting for a fake-claim is because short of Mod-confirmation, we wouldn't have any way to confirm BC's theory. I switched my vote because the fake-claim was confirmed and Mattchew had made no attempt to explain the fake-claim from a town perspective.
Playing Protoss = Opponent owned
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 07 2012 18:33 GMT
#1109
On September 08 2012 03:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:
Before I go to bed for the night:

BroodKingEXE

He has two very suspicious posts regarding two confirmed players: Mattchew and Ottoxlol.



A bit before Mattchew is scum-confirmed (right around when a few players start voting for Mattchew), Broodking posts this unbelievably wishy-washy opinion on Mattchew.
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.


Look at the logic - he first thinks its a great idea, then there are "too many holes."
He doesn't want to lynch him because his "roleclaim isn't verifiable until he is lynched" - the hell?
He said he's town originally, then says "its a coinflip"
Then he says "Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch" and wants to wait until "mattchew sounds scummy". Again, the fakeclaim is the entire reason everyone voted for him.

But wait! Two pages after the fakeclaim (and before Mattchew posted anything in the interim):
On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew


Wow.


After stating earlier that the fakeclaim wasn't enough to lynch Mattchew, he votes Mattchew for that very reasoning.



His viewpoints on Ottoxlol are the nail in the coffin:

Goes from top scumread:
No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him [ed note: Broodking's scumread on Toad due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad.


Then proceeds to push cases against Miltonkram, Shadysands, and Gravan while Ottox is his top scumread:

Then says strange things about potentially townie Ottox while keeping a scumread on him.
filter
My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him.


Then SOFT DEFENDS OTTOX when talking to DrH
On September 06 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:
On September 06 2012 15:39 BlackMamba24 wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=124671&currentpage=2

I see a clear attempt to be helpful and constructive here, at least over the first couple pages. Not belligerent, listening to other players, pressuring people, making a real effort to help the town. Seems very different to me.

It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic.




BroodKingEXE is scum!

##Vote BroodKingEXE

I've got a break to post. The reason I didn't like the idea of voting for a fake-claim is because short of Mod-confirmation, we wouldn't have any way to confirm BC's theory 1. I switched my vote because the fake-claim was confirmed and Mattchew had made no attempt to explain the fake-claim from a town perspective 2.


1: That's pretty clearly a misrepresentation of your post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=21#412
Firstly, you weren't even thinking about the mod confirmation. Your quote below proves this:
...Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched...

You explicitly state that his roleclaim isn't viable unless he dies. You very clearly weren't thinking of mod-confirmation.

2: Misrepresentation again. Palmar confirmed the lie 5.5 hours before your ##Vote post. You're telling me that you only gave Mattchew 5.5 hours to address his fakeclaim before you were convinced he was scum? You played off the entire thing as a mega-scumslip. Also, you explicitly mentioned that you weren't going to vote him based on the fakeclaim, and only if his posting was scummy.

Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.


In what way does 5.5 hours of Mattchew's silence describe this complete 180? It doesn't.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 07 2012 18:36 GMT
#1110
burn scum burn
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Rewok
Profile Joined September 2010
40 Posts
September 07 2012 19:18 GMT
#1111
@ Rewok - Kinda surprised you don't have any solid reads after your long post earlier in the game declaring everyone "null"

Any updates? Town/Mafia reads or otherwise?


Yeah man. I've been staying read up - you guys talk a LOT. Hap is one of my town reads right now, because of how Otto flipped. Mav is my main mafia read - I'm still at work, so it's gonna be a bit before I can get proof. (Although it looks like a couple of you guys see it, too.)

I'm truly surprised Otto flipped green. That was kind of a bummer. And let's not forget Cobbler got grabbed N1, too. I'm scanning filters now but I remember there was a whole thread of guys trying to lynch BC at one point. I'm going to look into that group for my next solid scum read.

As far as who's town? Not 100% sure. You guys seem to play with a lot of meta, so I'm working my way through multple threads at this point :/

All I can say is BKE is my 2nd choice, Mav is my first and I'm pretty solid on Hap right now.
Rewok
Profile Joined September 2010
40 Posts
September 07 2012 19:20 GMT
#1112
EBWOP: I forgot to add BM to my BC threads.

We had groups of posters trying to lynch both BC and BM early on. There's gonna be at least one or two reds in there.

Anyone who defended BM, BC and then voted Otto would look pretty suspicious to me. Enough to get a vote, at least.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
September 07 2012 19:25 GMT
#1113
Well just woke up from a 14-hour hibernation
Looks like I have a shitton to go through with.
Before I do that, though, one thing

Hapa, I disagree completely with your first point on him. He confirmed his vote AFTER the mod confirmation, and the comments he made regarding him voting on mattchew:

On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.


Was done BEFORE. You can't just dismiss this as if "he wasn't expecting a mod confirmation", because to be honest, neither was I.

I'll read his filter considering the second part of your post and see what I think.

Also, note how three-four people jumped in the bandwagon without mentioning this. I would think that this flip-flop being based on Palmar's confirmation would be fairly obvious...

Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
September 07 2012 19:29 GMT
#1114
Hold up son, that's not my case:

Full Case:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=54#1062

Summary/Emphasis on Scumslip:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=54#1080

a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
September 07 2012 19:35 GMT
#1115
On September 08 2012 02:13 Maverick32x wrote:
I honestly have no problem voting BKE. I thought I was clear with reason I voted for Shiao... I wanted him to post... And look!! He's had more posts after be called out than all game!

Also yes- I'm considering more than one person as scummy or pointing out odd behaviors...


Am I now scum or not? Why the lack of stance e.g. "Shiao is scum!"
Also you haven't switched yet and which people do you want to point out?
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Maverick32x
Profile Joined April 2011
United States311 Posts
September 07 2012 19:38 GMT
#1116
Is the vote deadline at 5pm cst?

I'm really struggling with a BKE lynch the more its discussed... Anyone else have thoughts?

I really think Hap is town- but I'm just not sure on his read... I'm in a training so just trying to post on breaks...
Check out 'Gamer Therapy'!! 10CST: twitch.tv/Maverick32x
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
September 07 2012 19:40 GMT
#1117
Deadline is more than 24h from now if I am not mistaken
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
September 07 2012 19:40 GMT
#1118
Actually, what is MORE suspicious than his flip-flop is how he didn't address BC when he tried to soft-defend mattchew. Here is what I'm thinking.

1) BC basically claims something to be the truth, and is heavily insistent on it. This something is enough to insta-lynch Mattchew without a second thought. BK agrees with this, because he voted on Mattchew after the confirmation.

2) On this same post:

On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.


What holes? If he thinks the roleclaim has many holes, why can't I find them, and why does he completely disregard this later on saying that it is a coinflip?

So, from 1), it is absolutely certain that he agrees with the implication that if BC is right, then Mattchew should be auto-lynched.
So, based on this post, he obviously thinks that BC is wrong. If so, why doesn't he bother convincing BC why he is wrong instead of completely ignoring him and making a bad attempt at defending Mattchew?

I can't think Mattchew is innocent without thinking BC is wrong. If I want to defend Mattchew, then I sure as fuck want to confirm that BC is lying.

Will get back with more.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
September 07 2012 19:41 GMT
#1119
Mav, struggling because of what?
Deadline should be tomorrow.
Maverick32x
Profile Joined April 2011
United States311 Posts
September 07 2012 19:42 GMT
#1120
You haven't posted enough for me to be sure of your alignment.

You're also not reading.... I wanted you to post. Stop derailing this thread by making it personal .


I think lurking is scummy. You were lurking. Therefore your behavior is scummy.
Check out 'Gamer Therapy'!! 10CST: twitch.tv/Maverick32x
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