EPTOn August 24 2012 06:34 Hopeless1der wrote:
Still on that. So far I think wiggles is scummiest of the three.
Still on that. So far I think wiggles is scummiest of the three.
This is really helpful. Care to explain why in future posts?
PTP3 - Pikachu's Revenge - Page 53
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
This is really helpful. Care to explain why in future posts? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On August 24 2012 02:48 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay I'm back to reading the thread. My suspicions on Zephirdd stand, and I think his defensive post to my accusations lay on the emotion a bit too thick. He also ignores the part where I say he doesn't scumhunt and my comment on his interactions with kitaman. As it seem that we won't be likely to go down that road, I'll be looking at Mattchew, Wiggles and Dirkzor primarily. Define scumhunting. If you define it as looking for scum from what was posted in one way or another, I did scumhunt and thought VE was scum(although I don't think anymore) and found kita to be odd/scummy/whatever-you-call-it. Obviously I was wrong on kita so I don't care about him anymore. happy? Okay, reading the last few pages. I'll admit it: I did not read the whole HUGE-WALL-OF-TEXT cases that happened on wiggles vs BC. But I'm grasping the situation here. BC died, flipped town, we gotta find stuff from that(herpderp cpt obv). BC died and nobody claimed his shot, so we assume it's scum. Makes sense. Kurumi somehow knows I am town. I don't know how I feel about it - if I should feel he is a bulletproof DT or scum. However, he has been making sense lately.. sorta. Basically, I agree with his stance on Dirkzor. what people said about activity(and mattchew's case on dirkzor) make sense too. This and the fact that toad was so far away from him. So I'm voting Dirk. ##vote Dirkzor | ||
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BioSC
United States636 Posts
Let me know if you need something immediately from me. Brb 10 mins. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I don't have much time since I'm posting this while in class but I'll be back later. I just wanted to make that clear since I saw BC flip and people vote Wiggles (although it should be apparent by some of the players attacking Wiggles that the idea he is scum is pretty untenable) | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I'm putting something together and will be back in a while. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Basically I think if we knew the alignment of VE it would make things a lot more clear. Since we cannot know the alignment of VE without killing him, I'm going to try to logic my way through both scenarios and draw some conclusions from there. Keep in mind Toad knew everyone would know the shot went off before hand. 1) Toad shoots Town VE: Knowing Toad as scum, what would Toad's motivations for this be? a) Cause confusion throughout the thread/general dislike for VE -I think this one is out, I think a risky move like this would be more planned out b) Try to get VE to role claim, or rage leading a mis-lynch back to a vet -There is evidence that this could be the case as seen in the quotes below: + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 02:55 Toadesstern wrote: I consider this to be bullshit. Therefore I consider you to be a rock-type. Therefore I consider you to be mafia because you're not playing like a VET-role at all right now. That's kind of my thought process right now. Care to enlighten me why you're not more "in your face" as a rock until you got under suspicion? + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 03:01 Toadesstern wrote: well this shot makes me think you're a VET, as I just mentioned. A vet usually tries to catch some bullets. I wouldn't say what you did so far is how you play a VET-role if you want to help town and I'd go as far to say I don't even the slightest interest in making it look that way from your side. So I'm basicly accusing you to have gotten a VET-role combined with a mafia alignment because a VET-role in combination with a town alignment isn't really fitting the picture at all. I never asked you to claim. I just wanted you to give a little insight from your pov. c) Toad and Team Rocket are threatened by VE -This implies that VE's strong pushes against both dirk and zeph early in the game warrented this shot. This implies that either Dirk or Zeph is scum. Zeph: -Im not going to rehash VE's case or BIOSC's case if you want to read them check the filters. - I will talk about some new things I found related to the PayDay Shooting People seem to be ignoring the fact that Toad not only distanced himself from Dirk but also Zeph, and Zeph tries to make sure not only that people know Dirk was distanced, but to leave of the fact that Toad rarely mentioned him. On August 22 2012 03:25 Toadesstern wrote: I guess I just ninja'ed you. Not much of an opinion on Dirkzor right now. He's one of the guys I'd rather have a look at day-2 or day-3. Same goes for Zeph. Last game I wanted to lynch him because I found a couple of posts that read like scumslips to me and he ended up flipping mafia. So pretty much the same as Dirkzor: Rather leave him alive and check out d2 or d3. If he's mafia he'll slip soon enough. I'm really in favor of lynching vets d1 in general. That's why you'll mostly find me comment on those people because I feel more comfortable judging them even with fewer amounts of posts. On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? He wanted to leave Zeph alone for a while just like Dirk, so if this is the primary reason your voting Dirk you might want to re-think your vote. He also leaves Zeph out when asking for my opinion. Actually the first quote is the ONLY time toad every interacts with Zeph. Additionally, Zeph LOVES to remind people how town he is: On August 20 2012 08:28 Zephirdd wrote: How about the "lynch whoever throws KP around randomly"? Also I am a medic. Go figure. On August 22 2012 07:27 Zephirdd wrote: On the meowth thing: I believe it was town KP. Why? Because I wasn't targetted. but then, so many people outing my fucking draw-shots strategy could have spoiled it huh. I'm still a medic and I'll still protect someone tonight, don't worry. Also, I may have claimed medic because I knew the strategy would be spoiled so scum would never shoot me WHAT NOW SCUM HUH COME ON SHOOT ME ohwait you will not WIFOMWIFOWMIFOM TAKE IT SCUM anyway Anyway, it may have been scum KP but I'm willing to believe it was town. If there was no claim, it is very well possible that there is a reason hidden on his role - like, maybe he can't claim. I don't know, but I see no reason to shoot VE specifically. On August 23 2012 11:34 Zephirdd wrote: [Insert random wifom comment about how that was made to implicate me and make a mislynch] I can't say you're wrong either, even if I know I'm town; but I can say it could have something to do with Dirkzor. Problem is: I found his logic to look fine during your exchange, but you did counterargue it nicely and I don't recall him doing it back. If he did, I didn't see it. You would think a townies job is to scum hunt, and prove his townieness by catching scum, NOT by explaining it to everyone every chance he gets. Excuses, Excuses EVERYWHERE: On August 22 2012 07:27 Zephirdd wrote: So... I guess I am late @_@ long day at work. I didn't read much on imallinson at the time of my last post so I don't know if I'd have thought he was a good lynch or not. I was busy looking at VE at the time. On August 23 2012 11:01 Zephirdd wrote: Sup hopes. Had a crazy day at work today. Some kiddo thought he could take down the whole company because he lost 4 bucks on his cellphone. As if he was anyone at all. Crazy huh? So yeah, I now got a job that gives no free space. once in a while I can give a look at the thread, but writting anything would be useless(even now when I can come back to the thread it isn't very helpful, but I'm trying). On August 23 2012 11:11 Zephirdd wrote: ...I don't think my "make connections" thing is working out @_@ I'm tired as fuck too. Only reason for voting Dirk is the a reason that applies to himself: On August 23 2012 11:11 Zephirdd wrote: Dirkzor's only mention of Toad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357¤tpage=19#365 (he also mentioned it on a list of voters but it doesn't matter) Reading Toad's filter, he is also always "I'm meh on him" or "I don't know". You see, that's the kind of stuff that scum partners say to each other when they don't want to lynch an ally. There was a pretty big distance between Toad and Dirkzor, and I don't think it was unintentional. On the same way though, I can't give much insight on it. The fact that it is so hard to find interactions of Toad/VisceraEyes on toad's filter(because Ctrl+F'ing 'VE' is stupid) isn't helping me; VE, do you happen to know if Toad had some kind of fight with you for you to warrant that shot? Why would he shoot you at that point in time? ...I don't think my "make connections" thing is working out @_@ I'm tired as fuck too. Dirkzor: -same as Zeph im going to try and not re-hash everyone elses case against Dirkzor, if you want to see a recent one go check out Mattchew's. -BC's last post before death stated that we should be lynching either Dirkzor or Mr. Wiggles -Toads obviously far distance from Dirkzor On August 22 2012 03:25 Toadesstern wrote: I guess I just ninja'ed you. Not much of an opinion on Dirkzor right now. He's one of the guys I'd rather have a look at day-2 or day-3. Same goes for Zeph. Last game I wanted to lynch him because I found a couple of posts that read like scumslips to me and he ended up flipping mafia. So pretty much the same as Dirkzor: Rather leave him alive and check out d2 or d3. If he's mafia he'll slip soon enough. I'm really in favor of lynching vets d1 in general. That's why you'll mostly find me comment on those people because I feel more comfortable judging them even with fewer amounts of posts. There is less here for Dirkzor, because I feel like this case has been done to death already and Mattchew hit all the obvious points. Also I feel too many people are believeing Zephs bullshit confirmed town, and overlooking the fact that the reasons people want Dirk dead are thereso even more for Zeph. 2) Toad Shoots Mafia VE: Why would Toad shoot VE if VE was scum? a) Cause disruption and create confusion b) Wants to separate himself from VE, to create WIFOM VE into confirmed townie after he dies -Anyone that played LI will know this has happened between these two players in an almost perfect fashion, constant arguements etc. Go read this for reference. -Additionally, there has been alot of mention of this sort of thing throughout the game regarding the shot. On August 23 2012 09:49 Kenpachi wrote: VE is probably town. what are the chances hes mafia with toadesstern twice now On August 22 2012 20:56 Toadesstern wrote: The creator of a role is not allowed to talk about it until the role has flipped according to a mod-statement. Are you trying to get someone mod-killed? Why is it a role scum likely has? There has been a lot of talk about Meowth so far. Just picture him being some crazy shit like dayvig + bulletproof. Noone in their right mind would claim something like that because it would help mafia. Besides: I shot our lovely hosts a PM and I'm totally not going to talk about what a host told me or publish a host-pm but I guess asking the right question might shed some light on some things like: a) Meowth b) VE That being said. I like both VE and Meowth right now, which may sound quite strange but I doubt any of those two is actually mafia although one shot the other. On August 22 2012 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I could feasibly work with Toad, but he tends to disagree with just about anything I say seemingly because it's me saying it. Not anything from this game in particular, just something I've noticed when we're in games together (it's one of the reasons our LI shenannies were so believable, actually). CONCLUSION : I do NOT currently think that VE is scum. I think Toad either shot VE because he felt threatened or he wanted to get a role reveal. I think he did this for both reasons as shown above, I think it was a very risky move that outted Toads alignment and possibly some other scum members, but he felt he could have got a role reveal out of VE and possibly kill VE that night or turn the lynch around onto VE if VE went into rage mode. I think the lynch today should be between Dirk or Zeph or Mattchew since I think VE is town, to try and solve this puzzle. Wait what mementoss? Mattchew, but you never mentioned him at all? Well I am about to. I think between Zeph and Mattchew people are trying to get everyone to think only Dirk was distanced from toad. When really zeph was distanced from toad as well. Additionally, Dirk has been under heat all game, and was also a contender for day 1 lynch, so its easy to get people to vote him. 1) everyone is curious of his alignment and even if they dont think they are they are biased towards that fact, and 2) scum can easily look like they are contributing by rehashing everything said in day 1. Additionally, Dirkzor thinks mattchew is scum and re-brings up the case, what a perfect way to get someone off your ass. Also to tie things into recent events I think BC was killed not only to direct a lynch onto Wiggles or Dirk (as his dieing words said to lynch either of them) but to shut BC up about Mattchew, because BC caught a scum slip by mattchew in the below quote: On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. Additionally, if you look at mattchew pathetic and scummy scum filter you will see why he seems scummy. Im not going to re-hash this, but it can be seen in the case by Jingle below: On August 23 2012 22:53 Dirkzor wrote: Bah just erased my post =( I don't have much time today and I just want to put some thought about what have happened since I last posted. It might get a bit all over because I don't know when I'll get back to the thread so bear with me. While reading the whole Wiggles vs BC "battle" i initially thought BC came out looking worst (and thus Wiggles looking good). I also thought that both might still be town since I earlier had a townread on BC. About the hit on BC. Why haven't anyone claimed it? Is it the same as I think happened day1 with toad hitting VE? That it was actually scum who hit him while some thought he was scum. It would be the perfect way to hide the amount of KP used on town/scum side. Still pondering if it would be beneficial for us to press a claim on the BC hit. Talking about VE. I don't think he is scum anymore. The hit Toad performed on him d1 jsut doesn't add up as a bus. Such an early and very aggressive bus seems unlikely. + Show Spoiler [Jingle's case on Mattchew] + On August 23 2012 03:10 JingleHell wrote: Since someone recently accused me of not scumhunting (because I asked them why they were doing something that's generally at best null, if not anti-town, no less) I decided to filter dive a bit. Speaking of not scum hunting... also, accusing someone of no reads when this is his most substantial post in the thread at the time is laughable. He wants VE to pick a fight, which is generally not good for town, and he's not sinking his teeth into anyone either. Oh. Tunneling the piss out of Drazerk, too. Whining about a vote on him, fits the trend of non-content posting. Starting to see a trend. Minimal content, wanting to sheep people. Usually scummy to want someone else to lead on cases. This doesn't need much talking about. More wanting to sheep and hide behind other players. Very early assertion of "definite town" on someone, which in this case would require information townies don't have. He claims it's based on other play, but I'd need confirmation of that from someone who knows it. Weak OMGUS finger-point at me that doesn't even make sense under the circumstances considering my "cop out" was to ask him why he did something that's generally scummy. Great case that looks almost exactly like the one I made before you. =/ You start you case with "Since someone recently accused me of not scumhunting (because I asked them why they were doing something that's generally at best null, if not anti-town, no less) I decided to filter dive a bit." and the continue to repeat what I already wrote earlier. That in it self is weird, but the fact that you make a case because "someone accused you" is a scum way of thinking. Why not make a case to maybe... you know... catch scum? Talking about Mattchew: Best post so far  I thought I agree that Mattchew is scum (a bit less after how JH started his case) I'm quite sad to see WBG vote with no reason whatsover. Can you explain why you think he is scum? Same goes to Kurumi who just ninja voted him (although he did state he found matt scummy). Additionally, to look back at Mattchews history throughout the the thread, it has been VERY resistant to gaining any steam, despite his lackluster filter noticed by everyone. Lets go through this: I vote mattchew because of lack of anything from him and unexplained votes. Doesn't get expanded on despite mattchew not upping his play. Kita votes mattchew. Ends up dead that night, despite only having a very limited amount of posts. JingleHell makes a case on mattchew and votes him. The case is quickly buried and not commented on by many. BC points out a mattchew scum slip. Is killed very soon after is killed to point lynch towards easy Dirkzor to take heat off mattchew. Kenpachi votes mattchew, derp. Dirkzor thinks mattchew is scum, becomes main target by many and quickly gains steam for the lynch. If you read these things in context you will notice how HARD it is to gain any steam onto this scummy bastard. FINAL CONCLUSION: Mattchew Zephridd | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Misder - no post in like 50 hours or more Heist - floating along Kepnachi - hes kenpachi and unreadable as always | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Mementoss, that was a colossal effort, is there anything you'd like to know from me? I know I'm light on contribution but to be honest I'm having a hard time keeping up with everything. The fact that you're claiming I'm the key to some things is pretty intimidating - mainly because I'm so lost myself. I'll help out in any way I can. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On August 24 2012 08:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Toad wouldn't feel threatened by me no matter what I'm saying. He's like Bugs in that way. Toad shooting me was never about me dying...it was about either my reaction or the thread's reaction to my reaction. Mementoss, that was a colossal effort, is there anything you'd like to know from me? I know I'm light on contribution but to be honest I'm having a hard time keeping up with everything. The fact that you're claiming I'm the key to some things is pretty intimidating - mainly because I'm so lost myself. I'll help out in any way I can. Basically I just meant by going over the motivations of the shot on you depending on your alignment we could figure out a lot of things. I decided that you are most likely town and pieced together the situation that made the most sense to me from there, after re-reading key parts of the thread and going over some filter notes. Anyways I'd like opinions on what I said cause it all makes sense and I really hope its right. What parts you agree with or disagree with and your thoughts on the current situation would be nice. Im going to go play some CS Go tournament on Saturday. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
VE or Memetoss, if you were shot (with .5 kp) what would you tell the thread as town and what would you tell the thread as scum? | ||
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BioSC
United States636 Posts
I looked through the flips for Day 2. Something that struck me as interesting is that there was what I believe to be only 1 scum KP. The other PTP games had different flavor for kills, depending on what their role was, and Kita's was the only one that mentioned "Team Rocket" or the scum team. I looked through Kita's filter to try and see why scum would shoot him, the only thing I could find was this: + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 02:08 kitaman27 wrote: Bah I had forgotten that the deadlines this game were so early. I should have caught up with the thread this morning, rather than saving it for my 20 minute lunch. Unforutnately I won't be back by the deadline. Something I meant to mention earlier is that we should strongly consider taking role claims once a lynch is almost certainly decided. Unlike normal games, fake claims are much less likely due to the fact that someone else has submitted it. A role claim may allow a scum player to live an extra night, if we aren't careful, but if a town aligned player about to be lynched is offering up a confirmable role that shows they have the town's best interest in mind, we should consider following through with it. The post bugs had pointed out about imallinson being wishy-washy was something that I had noticed as well. Hopefully bugs isn't taking advantage of a poorly constructed newbie post, but I don't have someone better to put forward right now. I wish I had more time to look into people who aren't attracting much attention like bum, mattchew or chezinu, but unfortunately I don't. Also, I'm concerned that draz has dropped off activity. VE is still a head case (<3). of the people he was concerned about, 1 flipped town, 1 flipped scum, and 2 unknown. People have also mentioned the Toad/Draz connection. It's possible he was on to multiple scums and was a good shot, even though he didn't directly accuse any of them, so few connections there. WIFOM'y stuff. With regards to Mattchew: He's been tunnelling Dirkzor HARD. Like, I don't think he's even mentioned anyone else as a lynch candidate. Other than that, there isn't much to his filter. A couple of soft accusations against people for small things, reads changing, ect. With Dirkzor, there's the obvious that has been pointed out by a few people already, and that's Toad's distance from both him and zeph. The thing is, looking through his filter, I see a lot of defensiveness and agressive attacks towards people who accuse him. That isn't a scumtell by itself, though. I'm feeling a townie vibe from his filter, simply because he was actually discussing more targets than one, as well as defending himself. With the flip of BC, I feel like it was 2 townies going at each other, with a mafia kp in there to try and get a mislynch. So I can't really read one way or the other on Mr. Wiggles right now based just upon that. Finally, one thing I'm surprised that no one talked about, was the claimed vigi shot from StrongandBig. He claimed a shot onto Drazerk right before the Day post, but ended up being confused. That could be an effect from mafia, casting confusion onto a character with a chance to kill themselves, or possibly a redirect off of Draz. I don't know what it could have been, but it is interesting nonetheless. Of the two candidates right now, I would like to vote Mattchew over Dirk. It basically boils down to me finding him more scummy than Dirk. Though I would still like people to look at Zeph a little more. ##Vote Mattchew Uggh, I'm terrible at scumhunting. This took way longer than 10 mins. | ||
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BioSC
United States636 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote Mattchew I can get behind this. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
however VE is also probably town. Scum List: Mr. Wiggles Mattchew Dirkzor GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG | ||
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BioSC
United States636 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
also the Dirkzor thing is just a shameless and zealous bandwagon. i skipped everything said about Zephird so far. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
but uh Zephirdd is probably town. i dont see anything wrong with his play but im also kinda iffy on Dirkzor anyways. We could just kill Mattchew and Wiggles though np | ||
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